WARNING: SPOILERS for Titans season 4, episodes 7 & 8.Showrunner Greg Walker speaks about Titans season 4, part 2, and the HBO Max drama coming to an end this year. One of HBO Max's most beloved DC TV shows is finally back for its final six episodes. After ending Titans season 4, part 1 with the rise of Brother Blood, part 2 is going all the way in.
The second half of the season will see the Titans dealing with Sebastian now operating as Brother Blood. For the second half of the season, the heroes deal with the aftermath of their clash with the Chruch of Blood. With everyone now spread out, the Titans have to find their way back, but that will be easier said than done.
Screen Rant recently had the honor of chatting with showrunner Greg Walker after the interview for part 1 in 2022. Throughout the interview, Walker talks about bringing things to a head in these final episodes for all the characters. Walker also chats about making his directorial debut as he directed the first two episodes of Titans season 4, part 2.
Showrunner Greg Walker on Titans Season 4, Part 2
Screen Rant: Even though you knew this could possibly be the final season, how much did you guys pull out of your own bucket list for this season?
Greg Walker: Exactly, we had to do it because I've been on shows before where we didn't do it, and I really regretted it. I was saying, 'Let's not write ourselves into a corner; finish it up. If there's a miracle, and we get to season 5, great, we'll do some gymnastics to find our way back into it.' But let's really try to come up with the most satisfying journey for these characters that really get into the space where we want them to be.
When you guys found out that this was going to be it, were there any attempts to find another home for the show, or was it one of those situations of 'These are the cards we've been dealt with.'
Greg Walker: I don't even know that actually. We definitely aggressively wrote this season to be a finale. Because we wanted to for the characters, and also, it felt this is where the show wanted to go. At this point, we felt like if we doing anything less would be treading water. Again, I think there was a season 5 in the show for sure. But what we were really driving always was to kind of really give a real full fan experience for the people [who] really love Titans and the people who were just tuning in to watch them go on a journey.
Let's talk about this kind of two-hour midseason premiere because I noticed that it said directed by Greg Walker, and I was like, 'Wait a minute, I didn't know this was happening!' Had you tried to direct earlier in the series, or was it always planned for this season? How did this come about?
Greg Walker: Well, it came about because if the showrunner directs early on, it's really difficult to do both jobs. You really put the show in jeopardy when you do that, unless the show really knows what it's doing. There was a lot of figuring out of times, and it's a giant show. There's this big massive cast, costumes, fights, visual effects, and location expenses. It wasn't something that I could take my eye off the ball until season 4, where we had such a great team built around me that I could take a little bit of time off from writing and producing.
I knew that the people around me would support me to do it, so I could try to do both. It was not easy, but we got there. Originally, it was always designed that I would do it in the back half. We had more scripts written so I could go away when most of the scripts are written. We still had a lot of work to do on the last two episodes. Partly when I was directing and then when I was finished directing, but the team was great to supporting me. So I was able to take that time off, I was gone all summer.
You talked about how you have to play two roles when you're doing these episodes because you can't really necessarily turn off the showrunner brain. Can you talk about balancing that act when you're on set? Did you ever have to think, "I really want to do this as a director,' but as a showrunner, there's no way we can do this?"
Greg Walker: [Laughs] That's a really good question. The advantage is, is that I don't have to ask anybody. I don't have to say like, 'Do you think we can do this? Just do it.' So there's that, and I think the crew liked that because there wasn't a call back to LA going, 'Oh, we're going to change this. Is that okay?' I could do that on the fly and make things happen the same way when Akiva Goldsman directed the show. It wasn't just a lot more decision-making because the decision-making could happen faster. I think there were times when I was going as a showrunner, 'Do I think this is the smart choice?' as a director. But I didn't get to go in extra hours longer or I didn't get any kind of perks. The show still has to be run the way that the show's run.
There were times where I had thought, 'Well, maybe I can throw my weight around.' But no, actually, this is the rule and you have to be done by this time, you don't get any extra time. So in creative madness at times, those are very ambitious episodes in a tight schedule on location. The second one since you've seen it, is almost entirely on location. Question. There was just living in motels and running around and trying to deal with weather and COVID. It was nuts to get it done, like shooting an indie movie out in Rural, Ontario, didn't feel like a typical Titans episode, which I'm glad I got stuck with that one because I would have felt guilty if I gave anybody else. That episode because it was so hard.
Last time we talked, I was trying to get some DickKory teases out of you, and boy, episode 8 does not disappoint! What I find so fascinating is that in the midst of all this insanity, you guys still found a way to give the fans some great development in this romance. Can you talk a bit about how you guys came to that idea?
Greg Walker: I wish I remember because a lot of that was generating while we were doing the season, and before I was going off to direct. I didn't plan to direct it because we had multiple directors fall out. Then I was like, 'Well, it's too close to shooting to explain to somebody else.' So I should be the person and I threw myself into those episodes in that block of two episodes because we had two directors fall out of that slot [with] COVID, travel, and family stuff. I ended up being the sucker who took that.
In terms of the DickKory story, it really was more of a sense of, even though there's a lot of fun of watching them domestics - once we saw that, 'I was like, Oh, we can have them in bed together, and then we can have them dress as different people, kind of like Tennessee country club environment.' The costumes did a great job, and both the actors, Brenton and Anna, jumped at the occasion - I think they really did an amazing job.
But originally, what happens when you lose your soul, the kind of Invasion of the Body Snatchers way? What happens when you become a zombie? You can't connect to the person you love. Will you ever get them back, and is it too late? What's that feeling of a potential marriage or love that you can have that becomes impossible by circumstance? When we responded to that power of that emotion and that emotional story, that's how we started, and then we got to have fun with cars and them goofing around. They really lit up with it.
I got to talk about the moment with Dick because this just shows how much you guys have developed him from an emotional standpoint. We hear his tape, and we hear how he actually feels about Kory. What made this the right storyline for him, rather than just telling her? I love the call back to season 1 because we always knew that it was always going to be Kory.
âââââââGreg Walker: Yeah, and I think that he knew that too. One of the things - and this is a tricky thing with fans like you, Andy - we know where they're going. But we got to get there for both the actors and the characters and feel like we've earned it. They were never going to go out and have like jello shots and then end up in bed together. In fact, they did end up in bed, but that wasn't right.
It mirrored where we needed to go with them, where they needed to get to the point where and for Dick, it was almost too late where he really was forced to realize his feelings for her. He's so blocked that character and so much about taking care of others, but not really having that level of emotional intimacy. Because he was not raised to have that, it was actually seen as a liability. So for him to get there. It took this long.
I don't know who had more fun here, Joshua Orpin acting out these Conner Luthor scenes or you guys getting to write all of that. At what point do you guys have to balance showing that this boy has changed but also not losing what makes him so likable? What was a rule for you guys in your Superboy bible, so to speak?
âââââââGreg Walker: Well, it's a really smart point, and we had to go through his journey too. To me, it wasn't enough that he had a haircut, wore cologne, and had a leather jacket. To me, and for all of us writers together, we decided he had to go on a journey where he really went too far as Lex in order to see that that's not him. I think we all have to do that when you're trying on a persona because it's not as if he was trying it out.
He had it in him, but he didn't. He went too far, and we went too far. We shot scenes that we can't ever show wherever he went too far in terms of where I wasn't comfortable taking Superboy to that point. At that point, I didn't think that was who he was and I think fans would not have liked it. So we self-censored, but we had to like his character. We, the writers, had to go too far in order to see what was the limit for him to see in himself, 'This is not me; I need to go back to the Titans.'
We know Jason Todd is back, and he plays a really intriguing role in Tim's final step to becoming the third Robin. Why was it so important for you guys as storytellers to make sure that he also had a part to play in Tim's arc this season?
âââââââGreg Walker: Well, I think it's due fold. 1) it is important to see that Jason Todd, through his experience as Robin and then Red Hood, has evolved as a character. He's no longer just the wisecrack and kick-ass hyper-violent guy. He's actually someone who can understand what it means to be Robin and bear the responsibility of it and the core essence of the character and where he succeeded and where he failed.
It was important for him to see that wiser side of Jason. and I think Tim needed to see it too. I think Dick, who was the architect of this, wanted Tim to experience Jason Todd as a mentor to bring what he knew to it, and the way that he could show him what works for him and how he could ultimately incorporate that and be his own Robin.
Were there any other fan favorites you guys were trying to get back but couldn't for logistical reasons?
âââââââGreg Walker: I would have had them all. It was tricky to get Hawk and Dove back together. Because of how Hawk is...
Dead, you mean?
âââââââGreg Walker: Well, dead on our show is relative. We play fast and loose with death. I felt like we earned that we could have brought anybody back. But at that point, the character stories were so focused and really streamlined towards an ending I don't think we would have been able to do service to the amazing actors you bring on, like Minka Kelly, Conor Leslie, and Alan Ritchson back. You want to really give them something to really play and we are so dead set on this ending and steaming ahead that it would be hard to really do justice to those characters. I would love to have had them, I would do backflips if we could get them.
What can you tease for these final episodes as they go up against the bloodiest villain I have ever seen? If Joseph Morgan fans thought they saw a lot of blood on The Vampire Diaries and Originals, then just can they wait...
âââââââGreg Walker: Well yeah, he never didn't really necessarily need to make a career of swimming in it of what we put him in, but he was such a gamer to do all that. I think that this has always been a conversation and sometimes a monologue and now a dialogue between the Titans fans and Titans writers: I feel like this, hopefully, in my mind, it is the best version of that. We love the characters as much as fans do, and we really want to set them up in a great place where they win as a team and develop as individuals.
Some time has passed since we learned about Titans coming to an end. Would you be interested in continuing to work on more DC properties with James Gunn and Peter Safran? Have you had any talks with them, or are you hoping to have a conversation with them? Is there a DC property you would like to take on next?
âââââââGreg Walker: Well, I'd work with any of these actors again; if there's any version of Titans, I would definitely do it again. If there's ever a chance that somebody comes calling...it's so fresh, it's so new, Andy. I think between myself and publicity; we are the last people working on the show in the abandoned fort at the top of the hill. But if somebody comes knocking on the gate, I'll open it up and bring them in. I'd love to have a chance; I'm so grateful for everything that we were able to do on this show and how I was able to grow as well.
Well, thank you so much for your time today. This season leaves me wanting more, but you guys really went for it. I can't wait for fans to see it. I will grill you with more questions about the series finale, because we have got things to talk about!
âââââââGreg Walker: All right, Andy, I'm ready! Thank you, I love what I see you say about the show on Twitter! I see your name all the time. I love your passion, and I love all the support. Thank you so much, and let's talk again when the finale comes around.
About Titans Season 4, Part 2
In the mid-season premiere, the Titans - with the exception of Gar - are returned to the place they had vanished, the Temple of Trigon, only to find Sebastian and Mother Mayhem are no longer there. The Titans rush to find them before Sebastian summons Trigon, their pursuit leading them to a mysterious town whose populace is hiding a deep secret. Along the way, the Titans come across a prophecy that may require Kory to make a huge sacrifice to save the world, but Dick's feelings for Kory surface and he refuses to let her die.
In the final episodes, the Titans enter into an epic battle to save both Kory and the world. Gar goes on a quest of self-discovery, attempting to find his true purpose and to save his friends. Rachel embraces darker powers while Conner, struggling with his Lex Luthor side, goes his own way to defeat Sebastian. Tim and Bernard’s growing feelings for each other become increasingly difficult to resist, and when Bernard’s life is threatened, Tim finally becomes the hero he has always strived to be.
Titans season 4, part 2, releases new episodes until Thursday, May 11, on HBO Max.