WARNING: MAJOR SPOILERS for Titans season 4, episode 6.Titans season 4 star Joseph Morgan, who plays Sebastian Sanger, talks about bringing Brother Blood to life and what's next for the DC villain after the midseason finale. In the latest season of Titans, the heroes are dealing with one of the most iconic antagonists in the Teen Titans comics, Brother Blood. However, the journey to that war takes a different route, and Morgan's time in the series begins with Sebastian becoming their friend.
But for fans who watched the Titans season 4, part 1 finale, things have gone off the rails now that Mother Mayhem managed to get Sebastian to embrace his destiny. Episode 6, which was fittingly titled "Brother Blood," saw Sebastian giving in to the Church of Blood (mostly in order to save his newfound friends) and completing the ritual. While viewers don't get to see what is coming out of that bloody pool, the rise of Brother Blood will be crucial to the events Titans season 4, part 2.
With the Titans season 4, part 1 finale out on HBO Max, Screen Rant recently had the distinct honor to chat with Brother Blood himself as Morgan went into depth about making this episode. Morgan, who is best known for playing Klaus Mikaelson on The CW's The Originals and The Vampire Diaries, is no stranger to genre series. He talked about joining the Titans universe and bringing Brother Blood to life from page to screen, broke down the experience from working with the costume department to engaging with the Titans cast, and shared why Sebastian is such a fascinating character for him to portray in season 4.
Joseph Morgan Breaks Down Brother Blood's Transformation In Titans Season 4
Screen Rant: First of all, it's an honor to chat with you. I have been a fan of yours for years. As someone who's always said that Joseph Morgan needs to be in the DC Universe, you have no idea how much I freaked out with your casting. What you've done with this character is phenomenal but also absolutely terrifying. Walk me through reading the script for episode 6.
Joseph Morgan: It was pretty exciting for me because, first of all, episode 6 has those flashbacks into Sebastian's past. We get to see a little bit of that, including a terrifically written scene with Julie and what happens there in that restaurant between the two of them. I wanted to try and plot the journey physically that Sebastian would have as well, in terms of him resisting the prophecy and how that would manifest itself painfully in him that he was fighting his destiny.
That was an interesting process. I think it was about two days we spent in the temple of Azarath, doing the bits that come in between the flashbacks where I'm talking to Mother Mayhem or when I'm suffering in the background while she talks to one of her lackeys. [laughs] It was a really fun process. Of course, going into the pool at the end was tremendously exciting because you think, 'What happens now?!' It's a great place to leave it there.
The logistics of that were interesting as well; there had to be two pools built. You start by going into one, but then there's a deeper one on the green screen where you can actually go below the surface. It was a process, and quite expensive, apparently. But it was worth it for me.
I couldn't pick what was more intense between you drinking from Mother Mayhem or the whole bowl before eventually going into the pool. How much of that was real water, and how much was CGI? Did you have to hold your breath for any period of time?
Joseph Morgan: In the temple of Azarath, [there] is a shallower pool that was just water with coloring. But they have to make it lighter because in reality, the [way the] show is lit, it looks quite dark in post-production. If they'd made it as dark as real blood, it would just look black in post. We had to change the color so that it would work with the color grading afterward. Then the other pool had a kind of thick glue-cosi type liquid in it. It was thicker to have that consistency, and I had to walk into that.
But the problem with that, Andy, is that it was incredibly buoyant. Nobody realized that it was physically impossible for me to go below the surface because you're fighting it! I ended up doing the whole last bit of the walk with a 40-pound dumbbell in each hand so that it would be heavy enough for me actually to go below the surface. It had to be sewn into my costume, so it didn't come up around my head and tie the glasses on. But wait till you see me come out of the pool!
The costume is sick. Can you talk about the experience of putting it on for the first time? I talked with Nola Chaters, one of the costume designers, last week, and she said you were very involved with the costuming part of Sebastian and Brother Blood.
Joseph Morgan: I was quite involved with the costume for Sebastian as well. But in terms of the suit, it was a pretty involved process. It was about one fitting a month for about seven or eight months. It started off with intensive measurements, body scans, and everything. They started showing me concept art and then we talked a lot about the style of the suit, which LJ [Shannon] from Super Suits made and they do Titans, The Boys, and a lot of other shows. They're awesome. LJ herself is especially awesome. She wanted it to be like a suit of armor, and I loved that idea because there's an ancient quality to the magic that he is channeling and to the character.
In the canon, there's the idea that (although we're not following this in the series) Brother Blood is a power that's passed down from father to son, and the son has to kill the father to take on the power. The idea that there was this ancient costume really appealed to me. It had separate pieces, like the gauntlets and stuff were strapped on with leather straps and buckles.
Every detail would be examined, talked about, and thought about, even down to the buckles on my gauntlets. [On the] cape, they had a little snake on the buckles. These guys came up with a language that was based on blood capillaries that actually translate. They wrote different things across the cape, around the armbands, and everything. I was lucky enough to be consulted on all of it.
Andy, I gotta tell you, I barely wanted any change to what they were doing. I was a part of the conversations, which was so cool and perfect. From the beginning, I really felt like I wasn't ever fighting them on anything. My biggest concern was that the cape would be dark enough in color. Once you see it... You haven't seen it in action yet. Even in the photo shoots, it looks a little lighter than it looks on set with the smoke and the lights. It looks incredible. I was really happy with all of it.
I became very invested in Sebastian. Can he be saved, or is he lost? Is there no point of return for Sebastian?
Joseph Morgan: No, no, he can be saved. Certainly. It's not going to be a different character. When you see the rest of the episodes, he's the same guy. He's got power now, and there's something in him where his destiny is unfolding. It's playing to his ego and the parts of him that felt rejected and disenfranchised all of his life. He's now feeling what it feels like to be someone with power, to be someone with confidence, but it's the same guy. He's going to have that same humanity that we put in throughout [the episodes.] We worked really hard to make sure it wasn't just like, 'Now he's Brother Blood!' He's still Sebastian; he's still this guy. I think there's an opportunity there definitely for him to be saved. It's just whether he wants to be saved.
Someone that he bonded with right before his transformation was Rachel [Roth, a.k.a. Raven, played by Teagan Croft]. What can you tease about her role? Is she crucial to his potential redemption or to potentially saving him?
Joseph Morgan: She is crucial to his whole journey. Teagan and I worked tirelessly on connecting those characters, and making sure that every scene that we had together, we found every opportunity. I'll give you an example from an episode you've seen. There's a scene where we're in a diner together, and we're having pancakes. That's a really sweet scene, it was great. We looked at it with the director, and the writing was great. But Teagan and I felt like there's a layer here that we could put in that would reinforce the characters even further.
But what about if we have a moment where she notices that he's putting on a brave face bit, and she goes, 'Hey, are you okay?' I can't remember what she said. There's that moment of knowing that everything isn't really okay. We're just both trying to get through this together by covering it with this fun and playing around; we're having a joke. I thought putting that layer in the scene really says a lot about their characters and how they're growing to care about each other. We consistently worked on that, and we were really determined [to make] the Sebastian and Rachel story have a full journey and a satisfying end. I hope we've achieved that.
As someone who has been the lead before on your own show, how was it coming into this cast that is four years into their journey?
Joseph Morgan: I just had to make sure they all understood that I was the leader now. Whoever's been in charge before, forget about them; the highlight change now! [laughs] It was great because, during the first three episodes, I didn't work with them, apart from the very end of the third episode. I was coming in once a week to film my scenes, and I was doing my own little movie about this guy, Sebastian. Then we got thrown into the deep end because we did all of episode four, where I'm just with all of them all the way through. It was really good, they were really accommodating and everyone was so nice.
They were all really great and welcoming, all about the work, and ready to make the show better. That's one thing I'll say for all of them; they all want it to be the best show it can possibly be. Anyone coming in with ideas that are respectful, they will appreciate that. They were great, especially with Teagan, because they were really pushing for that from the beginning. Before I'd read some of the scripts, I was like, 'This is happening; I'm going to focus on this relationship; this is going to be a key part for Sebastian; I'm going to make sure to take it off the page and make it a bigger thing.'
I think that connection to family, I've had some success with that as well before in a series. I think that's something people can relate to, and that's important. I think that will be important for him. So she was really game for that. I'm still texting with Jay {Lycyrgo, who plays Tim Drake] because I've just been watching The Basstard Son & The Devil Himself, and that's come out. I've watched almost all of it. So we've been chatting a lot.
I spoke with showrunner Greg Walker a couple of weeks ago, and when I asked if Sebastian is going to change the Titans forever, he said, 'He is more than just a villain of the season.' How will Brother Blood change the Titans?
Joseph Morgan: Because he became their friend first, especially some of them, and later on in the season, there's another bond that is established with a different Titan, [similar to] what we have with Rachel. I think it's easier to fight a masked villain who is just doing something terrible for the sake of being terrible. But for them to actually understand him, witness firsthand the pain that he has, and have it be something that they can relate to as well because of their struggles with their lives.
And certainly, Rachel is very, very similar to what she went through. I think to have to try and stop this person and to have that conflict, there's going to be something in you the whole time that thinks, "Am I doing the right thing?" I'll tell you something, it is not going to be a happy ending for everyone on the show. You come away from something where that does happen, and it changes you. I am in dangerous territory now, mate! [laughs]
What can you tease about part 2? Because I need those six episodes as soon as possible.
Joseph Morgan: What can I tell you? You're going to have to wait to see the suit. You're not going to see it right away after the first six [episodes]. What can I tease that I haven't already teased?
It's going to get physical with Sebastian. Titans has an incredible stunt team, and they are famous for their fights. So there's going to be some of that with Sebastian. You're going to see some of that with Brother Blood, but we're just not there yet. You've got that to look forward to as well. There is this emotional tie, and that is a struggle for the Titans and for Sebastian when they have to butt heads. There's also the physical side which is pretty formidable on both ends, so there's going to be a clash there as well. You're going to see more blood than you've seen in any production that I've been involved in, and that's saying something!
That's why I was laughing when you were drinking from her blood, thinking, 'Oh, Klaus fans are going to laugh at this so much' because wherever Joseph goes, blood follows!
Joseph Morgan: Wait till the second half of the season! [laughs] We need to talk after you've seen the second half because I'm telling you, oh my god...
What else are you working on right now besides promoting Titans? Are you writing or directing anything?
Joseph Morgan: No, but I'm shooting Halo season 2; I am in Budapest at the moment. I actually only had about three days off after I finished Titans, which was crazy. I went straight here and started shooting this show in September, and then I'm on it until next May, I think.
Well, everyone wants to work with you! I was actually fan-casting you as The Joker years ago.
Joseph Morgan: Oh yeah, I would have loved that!
Would you want to do another comic book property again after Titans?
Joseph Morgan: Yeah. Honestly, as long as the character is grounded and interesting, I'm there. I love comics, and I love genres, as you can see from all of the stuff I'm doing. I'm doing a sci-fi series that's based on a video game. I just did a superhero show. I am a fan of that stuff, so I'm happy to do that. As long as there's a sort of grounded reality to the characters and it's something people connect to, definitely.
Also, you get to fight in a cape. That's going to be kind of cool!
Joseph Morgan: Yeah, that's a whole other thing we'll talk about. It's got its own difficulties as well.
About Titans Season 4
Having saved Gotham, the Titans hit the road to head back to San Francisco. But after a stop in Metropolis, they find themselves in the crosshairs of a supernatural cult with powers unlike anything they've faced before.
Check out our Titans season 4 interviews with:
Titans season 4, part 1, is now streaming on HBO Max, with part 2 set to drop sometime in 2023.