While the Shredder may have a reputation for being the most brutal and vicious ninja warrior in the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles universe, one comic proves that this misconception is just that–a misconception–as Shredder isn’t TMNT’s most hardcore ninja, his granddaughter is.

Technically speaking, Oroku Karai isn’t exactly Shredder’s granddaughter so much as she’s his direct descendant, but Shredder refers to her as ‘granddaughter’ throughout the comic series–which, ultimately, is a sign of respect. Karai kept the Foot Clan legacy alive into the modern day, long after Shredder’s supposed death in the age of feudal Japan. Not only that, but Karai is the whole reason Shredder was able to ‘return from the dead’ in the first place. After Shredder went into a centuries-long sleep within a vat of the mutagen ooze given to him by Kitsune, it was Karai who performed the appropriate ritual to bring him back, and then serve as his chunin. The entire reason the Foot Clan and Shredder were even around to cause trouble for the Turtles at all is credited to Karai–but that’s not all. When the Shredder was vanquished, and it came time for Karai to step up as the Foot Clan’s true leader, she proves to be more ruthless than the Shredder was (and there’s even a side-by-side comparison to confirm it).

Karai Will Kill Children who Don’t Join the Foot Clan (Unlike Shredder)

Karai wants to train or kill children.

In Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles #92 by Kevin Eastman, Bobby Curnow, Tom Waltz, and Michael Dialynas, Karai approaches Master Splinter (since Splinter was the leader of the Foot Clan) to speak with him about a peaceful exchange of power. Karai feels as though being the head of the Foot is her birthright, and surprisingly enough, Splinter agrees. Splinter sees that Karai isn’t anything like her grandfather, and he chooses to trust her to take over while he steps down and returns to his previous position as the leader of the TMNT–though Splinter couldn’t have been more wrong. In a previous issue, the TMNT saved a group of orphaned children from the sinister clutches of the Rat King, and Splinter gave them sanctuary within Foot Clan headquarters. Before Splinter handed over the position of Foot Clan leader to Karai, she asked about the children’s training. Splinter explained that the kids weren’t Foot Clan recruits, and that they were only living there temporarily. To that, Karai states that if they aren’t going to be indoctrinated, then they would have to die.

There Are Lines Shredder Won't Cross

Shredder isn't TMNT's coolest villain.

This level of heartlessness is incredibly alarming, especially since it goes way beyond what even the Shredder himself has done in the past. In 1990’s Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie, Shredder tried to indoctrinate children into the Foot Clan by promising them a life of freedom and fun. Once they became old enough, though, he began putting them through hardened training and started to shape them into cold-blooded killers. However, if a child who hadn’t yet started their ninja training wanted to leave the facility and go back home, they were totally free to do so without consequence. This means that Shredder was more lenient than Karai, which is pretty shocking given all the horrible things Shredder has done throughout every iteration of his existence–but, shocking or not, it’s the truth.

Honestly, it really shouldn’t be too surprising that, at this stage in her life, Karai would be more hardcore than the Shredder. She has spent her entire life in her ancestor’s shadow, and has shaped who she is around the idea of him. When the time came for her to step up and be a leader in the Shredder’s place, of course Karai was more ruthless with her decision-making. While it makes sense, it’s still understandably hard to accept that there is a ninja in Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles more hardcore than the Shredder, and that it’s his own granddaughter.