One of many new players joining Titans season 3 is Barbara Gordon, with Savannah Welch portraying the iconic heroine on the HBO Max drama. Significant changes are coming for Titans as it enters its third season. After having aired its first two seasons on DC Universe (now known as DC Universe Infinite), Titans join HBO Max's slate of DC television shows. Due to the pandemic, the wait has been longer than usual after the second season finished in 2019. However, besides switching streaming platforms, Titans season 3 is also evolving the story as Nightwing and his band of heroes relocates to Gotham City.
With the move to Batman's city, the gang will be joined by several iconic heroes and villains from the Dark Knight's mythology. One of them is Barbara Gordon, f.m.a. Batgirl before becoming Oracle, with Savannah Welch bringing the DC character to life. However, Welch's version of Barbara will be significantly different from past live-action iterations as Titans season 3 will follow her as the new GCPD Commissioner. When Dick returns to Gotham, things will get complicated as Barbara reunites with an old flame while also protecting the city.
Welch recently spoke to Screen Rant about bringing Barbara Gordon to life, the challenges of filming during a pandemic, Barbara's major role in Titans season 3, and the dynamics fans can expect to see. The actress also discussed working with the Titans creative team in adapting Barbara's story, especially for members of the disability community.
Screen Rant: How have you been holding up throughout the pandemic, I know it has been very long and, sadly, we are still not fully done with it. I know as a creative artist, whether it is making music, filming a TV show or movie, while still taking care of a family, it must be a lot while still being careful with the pandemic. How have you been coping with the state of the world, especially while still working?
Savannah Welch: You know, I've been very fortunate that I was able to continue working, unlike a lot of people. It wasn't too bad. I have a son [Charlie] who is nine. So, most of last year, we were homeschooling or distance learning. That's my other full-time job, being a mama, and helping him kind of navigate and understand as best as he can what's going on. It was harder on kids. For me, personally, in some ways, I really appreciated the permission to just pause and take that time and be home with him. You know, to kind of slow down enough to reevaluate what I was spending so much time doing and busying myself with before. And, I was able to write some songs, which typically, I just don't find time to do without a lot of effort. So, it was [a] very different environment being in Toronto than it was in the [United] States - in terms of lockdown and how their government was responding. In some ways, it was similar to the way things were being run in the States in the earlier days of the pandemic. Then around the time that things started opening up here in the States, I went to Toronto to shoot Titans and we were just under stay-at-home orders for the majority of the time I was there. So, that was challenging.
I love the concept behind Enough About Music, with the rule that musicians can talk about anything and everything but music. I have found that podcasts are more important than ever, given the state of the world. Do you feel the same way and being able to do a podcast like that?
Welch: I have a bit of imposter syndrome [that] comes up when talking about being a podcaster. We were in the early stages of pre-production on our podcast when the pandemic started. So, all of those interviews were still in post-production and we had not launched the podcast [yet]. Nobody [could] find my podcast anywhere yet. It was all sort of parked during the pandemic. And then, when I went to film in Toronto, we just kind of parked it in post for now. But I can say personally, I sure as s*** listened to a lot more podcasts over the last year than ever before.
Do you have an estimated date when the podcast will launch? Will you be waiting to drop it when the time is right?
Welch: We don't have an estimated time. It's definitely a passion of mine. It is something I'm looking forward to getting back to because I really do enjoy speaking to people and using podcasting as a means of connection. The concept of getting to talk to musicians about sort of anything else going on in their life or any passion or any interests, anything that they might want to get on a soapbox about for an hour, other than their music, was really intriguing to me. As a musician too, I do have the experience of answering the same 10 questions over and over again, when I have a whole life worth of things to talk about, aside from my music, that I never really got to share. So, it's really been fun and so interesting to kind of float that question out to a musician and see what they come back with and what they want to talk about. So I don't have a launch date, unfortunately, but it's coming.
Going into Titans, were you a big comic book fan growing up or at least familiar with the superhero genre?
Welch: Yeah, I wasn't. I didn't watch a whole lot of TV growing up. I had an older brother. It's funny. He had some comic books. About the time that he started [getting] into comic books, he started playing music. He was a musical prodigy [as] a kid. He got a mandolin when he was five. He just got into music. We grew up in Nashville, Tennessee in a music family and community. That became his focus in his world.
That being said, we were just like any other kid and playing pretend and always playing superheroes. I remember he was always He-Man and I was always She-Ra. Also, having a son, he just naturally at the age of two and three was all about Batman, Superman, and Spider-Man. I started learning things from my son, really. Just to share that with him. I was familiar with Barbara Gordon's character, to some extent. Just not the significance of what this character means and meant to the fans and her whole evolution, her character, and the story arc. So, a lot of that was new to me.
Titans is a very graphic show. So I'm sure [your son] may not see it. Does he know that his mother is Barbara Gordon/Oracle/Batgirl?
Welch: He does. At first, he kept telling people that his mom was Conditioner Gordon. [laughs] During Zoom school, he definitely got, not playground points, but Zoom school points with his classmates about the fact that I was on a cool TV show and playing a superhero. [He] definitely shared with a lot of his friends, that are girls, that his mom is Batgirl. It's cool.
We haven’t seen Barbara in live-action for almost 20 years, so Titans will really be the first time we see her again, so can you talk about the casting process and working with the producers/writers on how to represent Barbara and bring her to life after a long time?
Welch: I want to say balance, but the fun part is incorporating things about this character that we know and then what are ways that we can sort of embellish that or bring more background to this character and who she is and why. Just fleshing out that story for her. There were lots of conversations with the writers and the showrunners. She's a hard-ass. She's tough. She's in this new position of power - taking that position over after her dad [Jim Gordon] has now passed away. There's a bit of grief in that. There's also a real sense of purpose and what is driving that for her. Just getting to ask the questions and find that balance between this woman who people want to be kind of a boss b**** and really cool, but also [find ways] that she's vulnerable. What are those sorts of pain points for her? It's interesting. I think that we all have ways that we can really be very tough, but there are certain people who have our hearts or who can sort of throw us off that game. I think Dick Grayson is that for her.
Unlike other versions of Barbara, you are getting to play a new side that originated in the Batman Beyond cartoon back in 1999, as she is the new GCPD commissioner. Was that something you knew in your audition, or did you find out when you officially got cast?
Welch: [You mean] was there a secret piece of this effort? There was. [It was at] the very first audition. It was the first time I read for [the part]. It was [an] audition for the role of an attorney. It was fake sides, fake script, and I wasn't really told what the show was called or any information about it. I did know that she was in a wheelchair. Eventually, that evolved. Initially, it was just to see if this is a woman who can be in a position of power and also in the vulnerable, physical position of being disabled in a wheelchair. There's a lot of nuance there. And, a woman in that position of power. It was just that first [audition]. When I got called back, they told me what it was for. So I knew for the rest of the process. It was exciting. There were questions for me, initially, of what evolution of this character is? Is it Batgirl? Is it around The Killing Joke and that era of Barbara Gordon? Is she also a librarian in Gotham as part of her storyline? Barbara Gordon has gone through several incarnations. There's Oracle. A lot of fans are wanting to see that part of her story. I didn't really know for sure what we were going to be representing in her story, but I did know that she was in a wheelchair.
You brought up The Killing Joke, which I [still] get the chills every time I even hear her story because the artwork itself is very daunting. So, we're meeting this version of Barbara after what happened with the Joker. Can you say that if we're going to see that on-screen or is that something we know has happened, but we don't show it?
Welch: It's implied.
We are meeting a version of Barbara after the trauma Joker caused her, which I know is a heavy one. As you obviously know, Barbara/Oracle is a huge meaningful hero to fans worldwide, especially for those who are part of the disability community. Because in this genre, we are still fighting for more inclusivity in general, whether it be people of color, the LGBTQ+, and disabled communities, so Barbara getting this big spotlight on Titans is a major moment for the superhero world. Have you been able to process this major opportunity to bring Barbara to life and give so many people in the world a role model?
Welch: It's humbling. Truly. I am not chair-bound. I'm an above-knee amputee. So, there are aspects of that reality that I can relate to. No doubt. And, it's mostly the internal processing of being physically disabled. But, it was incredibly important to me that I represent the reality of a woman who is chair-bound as closely as possible, given the content. That was sort of the first thing that came to mind. It’s really important that I try to do this justice so that anyone who is chair-bound, or in a position that is close to that, does truly feel represented. Because it's tricky with something like that. It's easy to get it wrong and unintentionally do a disservice to that community.
Back in November, you shared a very powerful video and message on Instagram about doing stunt training for Titans. I can’t imagine the joy you must have felt to do this after what happened to you, and I feel it shows so much that anything is possible. We don’t see that very often in TV and film where characters who are disabled get the chance to do action work, which is why your post moved me so much. Can you talk about working with the stunt coordinators and developing Barbara’s fight techniques? What would you say about the industry when it comes to this topic and making sure we can see more of this in TV and film and not just in superhero shows?
Welch: Working with the stunt team on the show was so much fun. I felt a bit intimidated. I’ve never done stunt training before I lost my leg. It was always something that I hoped to do and looked forward to. So now going into training with a disability, I had some insecurities and some intimidation [about it]. There [are] so many capable characters on this show that I love watching. I really didn't know what to expect. And, the stunt team never for a moment made me feel less capable or like this was an issue to overcome. It was more ‘Ooh, this is gonna be fun, let's figure out what we can [do].” It was an opportunity to do something totally different than what they typically do. Just that kind of energy of curiosity that we all brought to it. Like, I can't do these things, but what could I do instead that's kind of cool that nobody else can do? What are ways that I can use this chair to my advantage? I can stash things in the chair. I can spin in this way. There was a lot of discovery in it and curiosity and it was just fun. We all got so much fulfillment out of choreographing that. And, when it worked, it was such a celebration. It felt really good. It felt innovative. We were doing something that hasn't been done before, to our knowledge.
So you know, I’d say the industry is an opportunity to incorporate people who are other-bodied, and just explore ways that we can fold that into characters that might bring some dynamics that are more [realistic]. I love the idea of getting to accurately convey what that reality might be like for somebody. I also love the idea of incorporating it into a character where that's not really the focus. I think that we're on our way. These conversations are happening more and more all across the board. Whether we're talking about people in front of the camera or behind the camera, bringing in more diversity and inclusivity is exciting.
So, I don't know how familiar you are with shipping, but Barbara has a long and complicated history with Dick Grayson in the comics, which is a big plot point for Titans season 3. Can you talk about working with Brenton [Thwaites] and develop that dynamic? Because a moment we saw in the new trailer was some of that tension when Barbara was concerned for Dick trying to step into Batman's shoes before saying, "I do, Commissioner Gordon," so what can you say about that relationship?
Welch: They've got such a complex dynamic. You know it is. So there's ways that it can be contentious and almost [in a] familial way because they've known each other for so long. There's so much history. They worked together as a team when they were teenagers. So, they're almost a bit of a brother/sister. What's the word I'm looking for? It's almost [as if] they can poke at each other in that way [that] you saw because they know each other so well. And, they’ve worked together as a team so well. They know each other very well. There's also just this love that seems to be unrequited. The timing was never right. They're their aspirations. Barbara is really committed to Gotham. Dick is not. He's ready to leave it in the rearview. And, he did.
So I think when you see them at the beginning of the season, [they’re] trying to kind of navigate that there's some beef between them that they have to work through. I think they both have some hesitation about working together again [as well as] some hesitation about opening their hearts to each other again. I can't give away much more than that. But it's complex. I can't say more positive things about getting to work with Brenton. He was so available and had an incredible insight about his character and their dynamic and the possibilities there. He was always willing to try different things. He couldn't have been a better partner to work with those characters and create that dynamic.
You referenced that they worked together when they were teenagers. I'm almost hoping now for flashbacks with Batgirl and Robin. Can you hint if we’re seeing that at all even if it's just like for an episode or something?
Welch: Hold on. Let me see if I'm allowed to [say anything]. I have a sheet [that tells me what to] reveal and not to reveal. So I can say the show historically likes flashbacks. I don't know that you'll see that particular image of them as Batgirl and Robin. But, there's a little bit of history there that we get to show.
So as you know, Barbara is a bad-ass, and you are joining a show with so many incredible women. I know you can’t give any spoilers, but do we get to see Barbara with the women of Titans, and is there anything you can tease about their dynamics? Do we see her with Starfire or with Raven or all the other characters?
Welch: Initially, Barbara is not on board with bringing all the Titans to Gotham. For one, I think she feels a bit protective of them because she's seen the underbelly of Gotham quite a bit. So she feels a bit protective of them. She also feels protective of the citizens of Gotham. The more superheroes you bring in, the more villains are going to show up. She's trying to prevent that whole cat and mouse game between the superheroes and villains. And, it just sort of perpetuates violence in her opinion. So she's trying to put Batman in his place [and] put all the superheroes and villains in their place, and add protection for those civilians. That's her position. That being said, things happen [that] lead to the need for the Titans in Gotham. They figure it out and figure out why they need each other. There's certainly some themes of women empowerment this season. What else can I say about that? It's cool. I'm feeling energized just talking about it. Just getting to see all the badassery that happens this season, specifically with the female characters.
Barbara has such a huge DC legacy and one of them is obviously the Birds of Prey. We are living in this era right now where we get spinoffs from these TV and film franchises, if given the option, would you be on board for a Birds of Prey spinoff? Because I have to imagine this is just the beginning of Barbara's journey in the Titans universe? Is this something you’d be on board for?
Welch: Oh yeah. I love playing this character. I feel like I just sort of got to start scratching the surface a bit with her story. So, absolutely. I'd be open to playing Barbara. She's a lot of fun.
Was there anything you brought to Barbara that wasn't part of the scripts when season three was first starting? Were there any ideas that you came to the writers and said, ‘You know, I think we should incorporate this,' what parts of Savannah exist within this Barbara that wasn't in the scripts?
Welch: That’s a great question. I tried to bring my experience as somebody in the disability community as much as possible. That would be ways that I could have a real sense of humor about my reality, my disability and maybe some puns along the way. [And, in] ways that she doesn't take herself so seriously or the vulnerabilities. The fact that she's a single woman and in a position of power in Gotham puts a target on her back. And, that probably her experience has been somewhat lonely. She's in some grief. Dick had left Gotham. She's lost her dad. She's now in this wheelchair. Her identity as Batgirl is no longer. And, just incorporating some of those realities that you don't know unless you've had that experience. You just don't know aspects of that reality unless you've experienced it. I can't expect other people to know those things. And so, it was fun to be able to bring some of those truths to the table and to the writers. Everybody was so receptive and always willing to have a conversation about that. [I’m] just trying to bring some depth to her based on my experience [as] a woman in the disability community and just all the ways that can play out.
We were talking a little bit about her relationship with Dick. Did you get to work with Iain Glen at all? What was he like?
Welch: He's great. He's such a pro. He's a musician too. Brenton, Iain, and I all play guitar. So that was a fun day on set, because we all had our guitars in-between takes. We'd sit there and pass the guitar around and play each other songs and stuff. He's got some guitar chops. He's great. He and Brendan both [great], They definitely could out-solo me any day. But it was really fun to get to know him and on a personal level. [We talked] about our families and kids. His kids were doing zoom school just like my son, Charlie. So that was fun. And, working with him doing these scenes, there were some pretty intense scenes. It was great. I don't know what else to say. He's just professional and prepared. So it was fun.
I’m imagining the Bat-family all together - Barbara, Bruce, Dick, Jason, and Tim - throw in Alfred - like a Bat musical family. Did you guys capture any clips of you all playing guitar together and stuff like that?
Welch: We didn't. I don't even think we got to do a photo or anything. We were just hanging out. I think some of the crew got photos. They were all hanging out to listen and be a forgiving audience for us. But, yeah, there were definitely jokes about Titans the Musical though.
I’m curious about the relationships Barbara has with the rest of the Bat-Family. I know she’s going after Red Hood. The show has been very quiet about Tim. But, what can you tease about Barbara’s reaction to both of them? Jason is in many ways a result of Batman. If Tim suits up, how is she going to feel about that?
Welch: She's very protective. She was once a teenager who was enticed and driven to do good and protect citizens. [She was] enticed by the superhero identity. In some ways, being under Batman's reign, I think that she's a little bit ‘been there, done that’ and is protective of these teenage boys. [She knows] that there's true danger and doing what they're doing in suiting up. It's not a game. So, she's protective.
It sounds like she’s like a mother figure for all of Gotham City. With her father gone, with Bruce being Bruce, and Dick being in his new chapter, Barbara is the last line of defense Gotham really has.
Welch: That’s a good point. I hadn’t really made that correlation. I think there certainly is a maternal aspect to her character, especially in this role as Commissioner - or you know, ‘conditioner’ [from what my son] Charlie says.
This is a sensitive topic because of the politics when it comes to the police. I covered a panel for Titans at ATX Festival and one of the production designers talked about how some of the elements of the pandemic were incorporated into the show - and the things that go on in the real world. Do we see that in the series, because we know Gotham to be corrupt? That’s what I love most about James and Barbara Gordon is that they are always trying to fight against corruption. Is that something Titans Season 3 will address?
Welch: A bit. I think that we felt the opportunity was there. It would almost be a disservice taking on the role as bystander not to comment on what's going on. It's acknowledged, There's quite a bit of corruption in Gotham and, unfortunately, a lot of that is not too far off [from the] realities of what some people are experiencing in the real world. So, yes, it's a sensitive topic, and we tried to handle it as such.
I’m not going to ask if you plan to come back if there is a Season 4 unless there is something that you would like to tell me, but what projects do you have coming up next after Titans?
Welch: As of now, I don't have anything to report. I'm hoping to get back into some music and visit some of these songs. I don’t really know. I don't have a plan of what I want to do with them yet, but I definitely miss playing music. In my personal life, [I'm] just trying to settle back at home after almost a year of being in Toronto and planning a wedding. I'm getting married next year. [I’m] spending time with my son. We're hoping to do some traveling over the next year if it is possible. We're excited. There's some things that we're hopeful for, but nothing that I can really talk about yet.
Titans season 3 will release its first three episodes on Thursday, August 12, followed by weekly releases on HBO Max.