The Batman: White Knight series broke new ground in Gotham, with writer/artist Sean Murphy launching an entirely different take on the fan-favorite Bat Family. Now the standout starlet known as Harley Quinn is getting her very own solo title in Batman: White Knight Presents Harley Quinn--and the surprises aren't stopping any time soon.
Murphy's modifications to the former Joker sidekick were among the most controversial and praised, clarifying that DC's two versions of Harley Quinn are different women. The original Harleen seemed the most obvious choice to claim the spotlight in the quickly-greenlit 'Murphyverse' of Batman characters, leaving the first two White Knight stories with massive changes in store. For starters, raising her and Jack Napier's twins, and doing it alone since her new love, Bruce Wayne sits behind bars. Fortunately, Screen Rant got the chance to speak with bestselling writer Katana Collins and artist Matteo Scalera about the story being told, the new villains, and even more changes coming to the Harley Quinn fans only think they know. The full interview can be found below.
How has it been getting into the world of Batman: White Knight?
Matteo Scalera: it's been super fun for two main reasons. One is the fact alone of working on a Batman series, which is amazing for me, because, it's a really dark character that really allows me to work a lot of my inks. I use a lot of blacks on my pages, which is really important for me. So, it's a character that really suits my style. And on the other side, it's the first time that Katana, Sean and I have the chance of working together - because we knew each other already. We've been knowing each other for four years now, so it's a chance to work in a family. It's been amazing; really fun.
Katana Collins: It's been amazing. Pretty much what Matteo just said. Sean and I are literally a family, so that's one thing. But then, Matteo, Sean and I have all been friends for - I don't even know when we met. Do you remember? You've known Sean probably longer than you've known me.
Matteo Scalero: It must be years. I don't think 10 years, but probably less than 10 but more than 5. Probably 7 or 8?
Katana Collins: Close to 10 years, yeah. It's just amazing. Harley Quinn has always been one of my favorite characters, so the fact that I get to create this new but familiar version of her is great.
It feels like with the White Knight storyline, Harley Quinn's story has become almost as important as Batman. Was that always the plan, or was it a surprise seeing her become such a main character?
Katana Collins: That's kind of interesting question. In some ways, it's more of a question for Sean, but I know he's always had a fondness for Harley. I can't answer if in his heart he had always planned on making her a lead character, but I think he always knew that she was going to be an integral part of the story. I believe it sort of blossomed from there, especially in Curse, where she's carrying Joker's twins. There's just so much meat to that, how can you not make her story? That's kind of always been the beauty about Harley Quinn. When she first premiered on the animated series, she just immediately caught people . And I don't even know if they intended for her to become what she is today, But I think that's just the nature of Harley. She tends to make things her own.
Sean has said that one of the driving forces for that version of Harley - and what ended up being two versions of Harley - was to give different versions of the character their time in the spotlight. That was one of the most exciting parts of Batman: White Knight universe. When Harley gets the spotlight, we get to see the Harley we know but also Neo Joker. Can you talk about your response to seeing that develop?
Katana Collins: Yeah, I love both versions of Harley. But I think because the original Harley was my initial inspiration - my love for Harley - I missed her. And I think Sean also had the same feeling, where we love the new Harley but also wanted old Harley back. But how do you do both? I thought that was part of the genius of White Knight volume one, that he managed to find a really cohesive and explanatory way for these two Harleys exist in this world. We get to keep both of them, in a way. I guess Neo is part of her own thing now and no longer Harley, but we still see glimpses of new Harley through her.
Harley is her own character too with this book all to herself. Was Harley Quinn as a detective always a story you wanted to tell, or did it develop in the moment?
Katana Collins: I don't know if it was always something I wanted to tell. I definitely always wanted to tell a Harley story, and when Sean created this version of Harley who was now a single mother, it was a natural progression to me that she would be trying to - for lack of a better word - normalize or try to integrate herself into what she thinks a mother should be. Which is probably what a lot of parents do when they first have kids, when they're trying to discover who they are as not just themselves but also as now a parent who has a life that they're responsible for. In Harley's case, two lives.
Also, we were watching a lot of Mind Hunter at the time. We were like, "I love this show. I feel like Harley Quinn should be the next Mind Hunter." And that was sort of the birth of Detective Harley. And it makes so much sense for Gotham. We already have a Batman detective comic, so it's taking a little bit of that but keeping her fun and playful Harley-isms. Then adding on top of that this feeling of how, in some ways, maybe Harley has never really known who she is. She's bounced back and forth between a lot of personalities, between the doctor and being the Harley Quinn with the jester hat. And now the White Knight Harley and Harley as a mom. There's nothing that's not adaptable.
Matteo, you've just come off working with Rick Remender over at Image's Black Science. How has it been jumping into licensed work and continuing the vision that Sean and Matt Hollingsworth started, while bringing your own voice to Gotham City?
Matteo Scalera: Well, it's been really challenging in a really positive way. Because I've worked with, as you mentioned, Rick on Black Science for over seven years. So, t's been a really long run and, during these whole seven years, I've been pretty much in control of every aesthetic part of the book. Every character, every outfit, every environment, every setting of the story, I was in total control.
Plus, most of the time it was just sci-fi towns and sci-fi worlds. So, I got to create new worlds and just use my aesthetic for each different one. In this case, I had to go back to my drawing roots, look at all the references, and learn about this new world that I could not create. It already existed. Not only that - it wasn't just created already in a book, it has to be realistic. It has to somehow remind you of a US city, so the buildings and even the small details, like a light switch or a mailbox, have to be American. Here in Italy, we have light switches and stuff like that, but they look different. So, you have to study every single detail.
It's been nice to get back to a lot of studying before getting into the actual work, whereas on Black Science, it was really easy for me. At the end, I was just drawing cubes or shapes. And then, on the last part when it came to inking, I was just creating stuff once I decided the aesthetic of a specific world. If everything should be really round and elegant, then I would just use a brush or a pen without even thinking about it. Now, everything has to be more calculated. So, it's really challenging.
So far, the White Knight series has been really associated with Sean Murphy and his art. Are you looking to his art for influences or the way you do certain things? Or are you strictly doing your own thing on this Harley Quinn book?
Matteo Scalera: Yeah, absolutely. And to be honest with you, it's looking at Sean's art is something that I've always been doing since I started working in this industry. My relationship with Sean started as me being a fan of his stuff and trying to meet him at shows. We slowly became friends, and from then on the relationship evolved. But I definitely started out as a fan, and he's always been one of my main inspiration.
Especially now, having to look at a lot of stuff before getting to work on the actual pages and just study a lot. This story in particular needs a lot of details in the settings and environments, in every specific thing. I tried to give some of Sean's way of seeing camera angles, and his way of using perspective. I am trying to do that, mixed up with my style. I'm trying to do a mix, hoping that it works.
I don't know if it's gonna be visible on the actual pages, but when some of my friends look at them, they told me, "I can see that you studied some of Sean's panels to create this specific effect, or to add this specific camera angle."
White Knight gives Harley and Joker a new twist on their origin, but it's also a little bit subversive. You start issue #1 by saying, "Nope, Harley was a go-go dancer putting herself through medical school." Was that a conscious decision? How did you decide what route to take?
Katana Collins: Well, I come from a background of romance writing, and we decided that they didn't meet at Arkham. That was one of the earliest decisions that Sean and I made together, that Joker and Harleen did not meet first; they met as Jack and Harleen. It was building that romance world for them and starting it even before she was a doctor. I really loved it, and I absolutely wanted to go in that direction. Being a go-go dancer, I don't see anything wrong with that. I think burlesque is a beautiful world that I admire and love, and I think it's a very realistic portrayal of a lot of people who perhaps have to pay their way through either med school or any school.
It's almost an inversion, because it's typically doctor-patient until Joker crosses that line, or kind of pulls Harley over that line. Whereas in this version of the story, it's Harley who crosses it.
Katana Collins: Yeah, and she certainly feels responsible for a lot of why Joker became the Joker. Whether or not that's true is kind of up for the reader and for her own personal growth to unpack. And Joker's also not without fault, of course.
Matteo, you're bringing to life not just Harley and Joker but also Jack and Harleen. Can you talk about what you wanted to get across in portraying these two characters as just two people to start with, not a super villain and a sidekick?
Matteo Scalera: Yeah, absolutely. You literally stole my words, right at the end of your question. I'm glad that we're basically on the same page, but that was one of the most interesting things about working on this miniseries. Of course, there's gonna be new super villains; there's gonna be some action and people fighting and stuff like that. But the heart of this story is all about the people. Even Harley is not wearing a mask, even when she's in action.
Most of the story is interaction between characters, in real time and in a lot of flashbacks. Basically, the whole story is a big mix of human interaction and emotions. We wanted to deliver that, especially in the Harleen and Jack love story, which is something that hasn't been explored because it didn't exist before. We wanted to focus not on the two super villains that partnered up, but on when they were just Jack and Harleen, just two young people that fell in love.
It's been so fun to work on on that. And I think that's the main thing, or probably the only thing, that I think this series has in common with Black Science: it's all these parts that are really dense, and they're intensely focused on human relationships. I think that's one of the strongest suits of this whole story.
Harley and Jack's relationship has been the emotional core of the White Knight world ever since this started. Katana, you're a romance novelist by trade and Matteo, you've certainly done big, bombastic sci-fi. Coming into this established world, what was something you specifically saw and wanted to bring your own unique voice to?
Katana Collins: That's a really good question, and I haven't been asked that before. I think that Sean does a really great job in the in the previous two books, of writing women with agency and choices - that's certainly not anything new that I'm bringing to the table. He does a great job with that.
However, when I was reading through early drafts of both White Knight Volume One and Curse of the White Knight, there were definitely times that I would kind of tweak his dialogue or be like, "Well, I think this is a more natural way of saying that." It's quite funny that - I don't even know if he'd want me saying this, but - there were scenes when she was pregnant. There were certain things that he would write in, and I forget exactly what it was, but there was something in the birth where I was like, "That's not how that goes. You need to rewrite this a little." I can certainly bring a more realistic female perspective to things. Like I was saying, I think the Joker-Harleen backstory romance was something that I really wanted to delve into and make our own in this universe. I don't think Sean ever really started on those flashbacks, did he?
Also, I am a huge fan of dogs. Those hyenas, I told Matteo at the very beginning, "I sure hope you like drawing dogs, because these hyenas are gonna be everywhere."
Matteo Scalera: Speaking of challenges, from the question before, the hyenas have been really challenging because they have a really weird anatomy. You really have to learn how to draw them. I'm still getting there. You'll probably see them evolve from issue 1 to number 6; probably by issue 6 I will be decent at it. But it's a challenge, definitely.
As for the question, I don't know if I feel like I'm bringing something more. Especially because they feel like it's still Katana and Sean's baby. I'm just a guest on this book, so I don't have the arrogance of thinking that I'm bringing something more. What I tried to do is bring some something more than what I usually do. Every book I do, I try to focus on different things that I think I didn't focus enough on in the previous book, if it makes sense.
The thing that I tried to add here that I didn't used to do before is to do the entire book in ink washes. So, I'm just talking about aesthetics; nothing related to emotions or technical stuff. It's just an aesthetic thing. The new thing that I'm trying to bring to the table is definitely that, doing the whole book in ink washes, which is usually something that I do just for coves because it's a long process and takes a lot of time.
At the same time, I'm trying to add more details to the pages because most of the time, once you get comfortable on a book, you tend to use the same tricks to solve problems. You have the character, the face, so whenever there's some room left on the panel you just add small buildings in the background and stuff like that. Here, I'm trying to focus a lot on the buildings, on the set things, on small objects and stuff like; the character gestures and so on. I'm trying to put a lot of attention to details, if that makes sense. I'm not trying to bring something more to the book, but to myself.
Katana Collins: I think you're also being very modest and very sweet. Yes, it's Sean's world, but you do such an amazing job. We certainly, looking at the book, would notice where the influences where and where you were matching - especially if there was a reference to one of the other White Knight books. But the world that you created with Harley? It's similar and believable in this White Knight world, but also it is your own thing too.
Sean and I always reference that it feels like a Don Bluth movie. There's this really beautiful, almost fairytale quality to it. I also read a bit about hyenas a bit at the beginning, and they're apparently more closely related to the cat family than the dog family. I was like, "I don't like that." I mean, I love cats. I have a cat, but I was like, "No, they're like dogs!" I can't imagine them as cats.
I actually have one more thing that I wanted to add, because I felt like I was so caught off guard by your amazing question. I think I'm pretty open about the fact that I probably can't have children. So, when in Cursed, I saw that Harley was having these kids, that was definitely something that I wanted to take and put my own imprint on. In a way, I feel like those twins are a little bit mine as well. Like, they are my little love babies too.
We've been talking a lot about Jack and Harleen's relationship, but I was curious about Batman's relationship with Harley. I don't think we've ever seen that relationship between Bruce and Harley in any other book or movie or TV series that I can think of. How would you describe where their relationship it is right now?
Katana Collins: I see them as really good friends, especially at the beginning of issue #1. I feel like Harley doesn't really have friends. A lot of the friends she used to have back when she was a villain, she kind of cut ties with when she left Joker, so she doesn't have that group of people. Plus, a lot of them were slaughtered. Jack is now Joker and back in Arkham and, obviously in our book, now dead.
So, I feel like Bats is her best friend and her only friend. She certainly has acquaintances and people that check in on her, such as Duke, who we see in issue #1 and Leslie, who helps her babysit a lot and is kind of a surrogate grandmother to the twins. But in terms of peers that she can really lean on and rely on and talk to, I feel like it's just Bats. And now he's in prison, so she can't even really - she sees him and visits every week, but she can't rely on him in the same way that she did.
The solicitations have given us a glimpse of Starlet, though her role in the story is not yet clear. But what stands out to me is that the new villain is not just some woman deciding to do evil, but that it's possibly another toxic relationship. Can you could speak to the villain of this story?
Katana Collins: Yeah, I'm trying to think if I can talk about that without being too spoilery. In the solicits, I believes we've already established that Starlet is a character most people know is coming. I think the solicits maybe even talked a bit about The Producer.
With Starlet, there's a lot of mirroring - certainly in her relationship with Producer and how it helps shed light on Harley coming to terms with her own past and why her own life unfolded as it did. You'll see a lot more of that.
One of the most fun things about the White Knight universe was seeing how Sean was bringing in some of his favorite characters from Gotham. Are you getting a chance to do that with this story?
Katana Collins: Yeah, absolutely. We have Simon Trent / Gray Ghost pop in. And he is not just a cameo; he's kind of an important part to the story, and he comes back throughout the book. And it made perfect sense because starlet is this Golden Age serial killer who's targeting Golden Age actors and actresses past their prime, quote-unquote. You could definitely make an argument that Simon Trent is one of the people that fits into that world of Golden Age actors in Gotham. I really wanted Ivy to make an appearance, so Poison Ivy as a little - then again, not quite little, but she's in there.
Matteo Scelara: She actually appears on the preview pages for issue #2, at the end of issue #1.
Katana Collins: Not a spoiler! This is one of those formatting things, in moving from romance into comics, that I'm so not used to. It's almost like reading a book, chapter by chapter, but with a month in between. It's so different; it's so unique to what I usually do. Usually, you put out a book and you can talk about it once it's out. And here, you're reading chapter by chapter.
What are you really hoping makes this book stand out from the others on the stands?
Matteo Scalera: Of course, from an artist's perspective, I hope that people will really enjoy the fact that I'm using these really soft ink washes. So, my hope is that people will see this. But at the same time, I think that one of the strong suits of this story is exactly like Mind Hunter - it's not flashy, and it has its own pace. It's all made of interaction; of people talking and understanding the psychology of the people involved. So, my hope for this book is that people will really enjoy this special rhythm.
It's something that, especially nowadays, we're not that used to. We're really used to - even in TV or movies or comic books - super fast-paced [stories] with tons of flashy things happening here and there, where you always have to catch the attention of the reader, otherwise they will get super distracted. So, you're constantly, "Bam, bam, bam," like this. This one has its own rhythm. I'm a fan of Mind Hunter, and when Colleen [Katana], said it, I immediately understood it. I can definitely see that in the story. So, I hope that people would get really into this new rhythm. It's a really special rhythm.
Katana Collins: Yeah, that's a great answer. Certainly, in many books - not all books, but a lot of comic books especially - you see the world at stake; Gotham is at stake. And this is a much smaller scale; it's almost like an episode of Law and Order. The stakes are still high, people's lives are on the line, but is Gotham going to be blown up? Probably not by Scarlet, if she's targeting Golden Age people.
I feel like it's really a character study. We wanted to really focus on people versus things or mechanics or toys or tools, and that's probably more of my influence there because I'm not a gadget person. I don't even have the newest iPhone; I have a phone that's, like, six years old. So, when Sean starts talking to me about bat gadgets and stuff, I'm like, "What?" So, I would really love for people to take away just the heart of that story. Even though we are rewriting Harley's backstory a bit, there is still PTSD there. There is still trauma, and she is a survivor through and through. I think a lot of this is the exploration of what that can mean and how she can find strength.
Matteo, when you draw a car in the comic, is it in your contract that you need to consult Sean to find out what car needs to be drawn?
Matteo Scalera: The funny thing is that - I'm not as good as Sean at drawing cars, but we both share a true passion for cars. Especially sport cars. For example, I don't know if you know this, but Harley's driving a red Honda CR-X from '91, which is the car that I actually owned until a few weeks ago. And, actually, Sean used to own that car when he was younger. So, we have a real connection to that car.
Then in issue number #4 - I switched and sold that one. I bought a Toyota GT-86. So, there's a sequence where I put my car in there, and Sean immediately recognized it. He was like, "Nice Toyota, man." So, definitely, it's a play that we do. And it's another challenge for me, because I'm not as good as he is at drawing cars. So, for me, I try to be on point with that. It's important, you know?
Katana Collins: Sean used to pick me up for dates in that CR-X.
Batman: White Knight Presents Harley Quinn #1 is available now from DC's Black Label (identifying this content as appropriate for readers 17+).