Just in case you had’nt heard, on the eve of April Fools Day a workprint of X-Men Origins: Wolverine found its way to the internet and hundreds of thousands of downloads occurred before 20th Century Fox could stop it. Though at first one might think “So what?” – there’s more at stake than just having a flick run free on the internet prior to its official release date.
When I first saw this, I held back. It was April Fool’s day. But as the hours passed, so did the proof that this was indeed real.
I shook my head in disbelief.
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How Can A Movie Get Leaked?
Does that really matter? There are so many different people that handle a DVD of a movie in post-production before it hits the theaters, it’s amazing we don’t see this more often.
With the number of folk who have access to a post-production version of a movie, when do the necessary additional security measures kick in that studios may have to take? Will those measures cost us, the fan, more in the end?
Sure we might grumble at the studios, but who is really to blame?
Have You Thought About the Little Guy?
I suppose that for some, the idea of seeing a movie before it’s actually released to the public is some sort of thrill (or something). While these folks gloat about having seen a film early (and illegally), I’m sure they don’t think about the impact their cumulative actions have on others.
The “others” are those people who put in 10 to 14 hour days over the course of a couple of years creating a movie. The “others” are also the second tier people who depend on a film to be released for their livelihoods… Movie theater owners/employees, for example.
For all these people, an advance pirate copy that makes it online dilutes the hard work they’ve put into something, and takes away from the “event” status of a big blockbuster release date. A release date that has had many countless hours of effort put towards deciding how to best present the culmination of all that hard work.
As this travesty went viral, Twitter.com was aflame with people stating that the Wolverine movie had found its way to the internet.
Some cheered at the travesty thrust upon Fox. I get where you’re coming from. Fox sure doesn’t have the best track record in how they’ve handled some franchises or other matters. But if you think this through, it’s just not Fox that gets hurt. It’s shameful to ponder the idea that we might really wish harm on a person’s livelihood.
So the buzz lit up big time.
Shortly thereafter folks were out there boasting about having grabbed some popcorn and sitting down to watch their newly stolen digital media.
Yes… I Said Stolen
If you go to the trouble of hunting down what you know is an illegal copy of the film, you knowingly stole it. And don’t tell me you didn’t know. To add insult to thievery, some of you were stupid enough to brag about it on various social networking sites. Good for you! Now at least if Fox and the FBI decide to pursue this legal issue to that level, you’ve made it very easy for them to find you. Even if you didn’t brag about it, you left a digital trail to the torrent files and subsequent activity is clear as day to the packet sniffers.
As it stands, the copy of the film that made its way online did not have the majority of its visual effects complete, had missing scenes and a temporary audio/music track. So I’m sure that made for an AWESOME viewing experience.
Some Actually Posted Reviews
To further implicate yourselves, you then thought you would be super cool and leave your reviews and opinions on what you saw on various bulletin boards and websites. Most website admins removed your misbegotten opinions, choosing instead to take the high road regarding this scenario. Good for them.
Fox stated in a press release on April 1st that the FBI and the MPAA are actively investigating this crime and that:
“The source of the initial leak and any subsequent postings will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.”
Oh yes. This little stunt can lead to some jail time. I have a feeling someone may find themselves with some new best friends fairly soon.
When All Is Said And Done
It seems that it may be pretty easy to track down who did this. Maybe instead of firing him or her, the studio should garnish their wages for all eternity for profits lost.
If you think it really doesn’t hurt studios, think of this: Eli Roth didn’t release Hostel: Part II in Mexico because it was already leaked there and you could buy it for twenty-five cents. What was the point of opening there then?
You think that if you alone “stole” a movie, who would it hurt? It adds up. One of my favorite examples of adding up is an article I wrote about saving electricity. If every light switch wielding person (estimated 211 million – it’s just a ball park for this example) in the U.S. left a light bulb burning in an empty room for only 5 minutes, as a collective, that adds up to around 2,000 years of wasted energy. It all adds up and we can make a difference.
In closing, Fox said this:
“We are encouraged by the support of fansites condemning piracy and this illegal posting and pointing out that such theft undermines the enormous efforts of the filmmakers and actors and, above all, hurts fans of the film”
We at Screen Rant will never support this kind of behavior and we will not tolerate anyone posting their own review or experience in the comments.
‘Nuff said?
Source: BBC News
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323 Comments
“That’s what we’re about. A place where you can state your take and not have to worry about being singled out.”
Ha yea right. In the past that’s what it was about however not anymore. Now Vic and your self have gone off their rockers insulting and trashing on others. Vic just compared downloaders to rapists. This has gotten ridiculous and pathetic. I had so much respect for everyone here especially Vic now I have lost it all. This is the most unprofessional behavior I have seen in a long time. This isn’t even a discussion. Vic has yet to even try and discuss it if someone comes in and trying to defend it he basically cusses calls you a thief and a rapists and then leaves to comment a few hours later saying the same thing. There are hardly any people that actually download and never spend money on the industry. I have never heard of one person who downloads movies with out still once in awhile buying a DVD. The fact of the matter is most people who download hurt absolutely nothing because no matter what that movie would not of got their money. However because of downloading they now get to view it. Also usually once downloaded if someone discovers they loved a movie they usually pick up the DVD. Is it stealing to let someone borrow one of your DVD’s ? Is it theft to invite friends over and watch a DVD together? In either scenario they are viewing the film with out paying the studio and it really isn’t any different. So are these people also rapist ? Is the guy in Barnes and noble reading the book a rapist ?
I laugh at people talking about the atmosphere in a theater. I go and watch movies in the theater very often roughly once a month and to try and sell some one on it I would never preach about the atmosphere. “Oh hey man it’s great you over pay to get in you sit down and have popcorn thrown at you. If your lucky a few babies will cry, some people will yell at the screen, some cell phones will go off and the guy behind you will kick your seat. Despite all this I still go to support the industry and see the big screen, but give me a break on all the atmosphere and experience crap.
Either way I think I’m done with this site. I can’t see my self coming back after losing all respect for Vic. If you want to be on a high horse and be so against downloading fine. However your acting like a child and being very unprofessional. Your analogies are terrible and ridiculous not to mention outrageous. Rape is one of the worst crimes a human can commit and you compare it to downloading. Pathetic.
Look, If I could take a hot girl. home and copy here. I WOULD.
If I could take a corvette for a test drive and copy it 100% with the click of a mouse! I WOULD>
It’s victimless crime guys!
Unfortunately the wild Fan Boys of the world are always going to try to one up each other. Seeing a pirated new movie before it’s released probably gives them a giant woody plus all the bragging rights that accompany such behavior. I seriously don’t think much can be done unless the source of the leak is found. For myself, I’m not interested in seeing a that movie anyway. I’m sick and tired of comic book movies, to me, they all suck with the acception of maybe the Spiderman and the first C. Bateman Batman. But I digress. My message to all fan boys: GROW UP and become MEN. Women will actually like you and maybe date you.
@Jay
Hey man, I agree with you. I actually wrote a post a while back talking about how the movie theater experience is getting worse and why I’d rather watch movies on my HDTV at home. The thing is, sites like Hulu are showing content with the permission of the studios.
I really don’t get how people differentiate between physical and intellectual property. Just because you can’t hold something in your hands doesn’t mean it doesn’t have value.
There’ve been suggestions above like Netflix and the like – I have NO problem with that – hell, even let studios release movies simultaneously on DVD, Blu-ray and downloads the same day as theatrical release. But that would all be legit.
Just because someone doesn’t want to let you do something their way doesn’t give you the right to go ahead and do it anyway.
Vic
Daniel F
I didn’t equate the two – I was making a point about the sliding scale of ethics and how if as a society we determine what is right and wrong instead of their being a fixed concept, that eventually we can justify anything. I’m just saying there is a right and there is a wrong and ignoring, rationalizing or wanting a wrong to be a right doesn’t make it so.
I see a HUGE sense of entitlement online, with no regard for ownership of anything – all that matters is “what I want.”
If it makes you feel better or boosts your argument to say I made the two equivalent, go ahead and have a party.
I find this all very funny coming from you, one of the most negative regulars EVER here on the site – I’ve wondered why you’ve hung around this long.
Vic
Akbal, check out the documentary film, “This Film Is Not Yet Rated”. It will explain the MPAA’s “role” in all of this…
i love how people assume that just b/c there are fanboys that they dont have girlfriends of lives when all it does prove their ignorance.
whether the movie sucks or not it’s the idea that someone takes someone else’s hard work and gets it for free while the person who made it or help make it gets nothing for their work….yes its out their to download and no it doesn’t cost anything but why rob someone of something they work hard for…I used to download cd’s for free until i thought about how that singer or group would feel if they knew that we as fans didnt appreciate them enough to buy their cd’s….so i joined an online site that you download music for a price every month….someone earlier said that they could do something along that line with movies…that would be a great idea and it could stop the pirating problem,but they havent done that yet…and as for everyone bashing everyone else…people have their own opinions so don’t critisize others for what they think or feel…I may be young and inexperienced in these legal matters and corporations but i do know that people work hard to bring us a product so why rip them off for it…would u want to be ripped off if you made a product..yeah fox sux and yes movie theatres are expensive but it’s life and no one ever said life was fair…i should’ve got in trouble for downloading music but i didn’t and i would never do it again because if i did i would be ripping off someone of their time and hard work.Which to me is inexeptable…thx for letting me put my two cents in…
Stephen
stephen,
i agree w/ you 100%
thank you and thx for the compliment Bruce Simmons. Sometimes I don’t feel to smart..I’m only 18 but i’ve seen alot…
no prob
This is a scary spot right here Vic.
can’t wait till the 29th !
I’m actually interested in watching this movie to see the plotline and direction they are taking it.
Man, I can’t believe I actually read all the previous posts. What an education!
If I were new to this planet I could deduce from these posts, on this page alone that there are those who think stealing in any form is wrong and hurts all who had anything to do with the product ’stolen’.
And those who consider stealing (in any form) justifiable as long as the circumstances dictate it personally or financially acceptable.
Such is the world we live in, the law abiding and the lawless.
Personally, I go for the big screen experience.
Lord Licorice is right, only a movie nerd/Deadpool Fan/idiot would watch an unfinished copy on their computer!
Examples given, good or bad. I agree with Vic/Bruce:
Stealing in any form is wrong.
That must be why there are laws against stealing…EVERYWHERE in the world.
You find it funny coming from me Vic ? Give me a break. First of all that’s pathetic. Second of all your the big cheese on this site your suppose to be above this behavior. Your always preaching about keeping things civil, but in this thread you have been the most childish insulting one of us all. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt on your rapisit argument, but you need to understand that it did not come out the way you say you intended it most of us took it a different way. Including my sister who was in that situation. That’s one part that got under my skin you basically called this victim a rapist. Now you say that’s not how you meant it and that’s fine, but that’s how it looked.
Your working on the assumption that people are downloading at home thinking to them selves I’m gonna put it to the studio when the truth of the matter is the vast majority of down loaders still spend their money and still give it to the studios. You may not like it and that’s probably why you have skipped the point all together everytime it’s been made by someone, but people download and usually buy the DVD if they like it. With out downloading they simply would of never bought it. First time I saw Hellboy was a download. If not for that download I would of never bought the DVD and I would of never watched number two and I would of missed it’s DVD as well. Truth of the matter is the studio has gotten more money from me because of downloading. Of course that sadly doesn’t fit in to your little argument your more concerned with insulting everyone and preaching at us all. You say I’m ripping off the studios by downloading, but I can guarantee you that I have given them more money than you have. You sit there and judge and all that good stuff, but sadly you have no reason to. Downloading hasn’t hurt the industry at all and the proof is in the numbers.
@Daniel F
I’m very sorry to hear about your sister, bud. I can see why that sent you over the edge.
The fact of the matter is that believe it or not, I’m actually human and sometimes I get fired up about topics. So 99% of the time things are quiet/civil here and the 1% things jump the tracks – there’s no allowance for that, it seems.
In retrospect you’re probably right, I shouldn’t have made that comment – but it’s out there and I won’t be a coward and edit my comment to remove it… I said it and I’ll deal with the fallout.
However I still don’t agree with your argument even if via some twisted path it meant MORE money for the studio. I stand by my position that it is simply wrong to download something for free when it is not being offered that way.
If at some point the studios OFFER free promotional downloads, then your argument will be valid, otherwise it’s still taking something that doesn’t belong to you against the wishes of the person/company who owns it.
Vic
WOW, I always find it amusing why people who do illegal things feel so compelled to try to explain to everyone why the things they do is “OK” or “not so bad.” I mean really, does it make your conscious feel better if you think you can convince someone else that your illegal activities are “not so bad” or that they shouldn’t be illegal? Come on, what ever happened to taking responsibility for your actions? Just man up and admit what you’re doing, if you’re ok with that, then fine. But at least be honest about it.
Like for me, I know I speed when I know I can get away with it. Do I go and try to convince everyone that speeding isn’t bad, and that they just want to give tickets, blah blah blah blah blah? No, I know I’m breaking a law, I know speeding is reckless, and when I get pulled over I don’t give any excuses. I hate it when people get all pissed at the cop as if it’s THE COP’s fault they sped. Come on, how many times do you speed and NOT get caught? Don’t bitch and cry for the ONE time in the 100 times you do it that you get caught, just grow some balls and take the consequence.
This applies to all crimes, I just use the speeding because I know it applies to most of us. Do the crime, do the time. Stop with the excuses. Downloading pirated movies is illegal, oh well, agree with it or not, it’s the law. The people who spent the time and money to make these movies decided they don’t want to give it away for free. Call them greedy, call them whatever you want, it’s THEIR call, not yours. The courts decided that it is a crime for people to get these things for free without the owners of the movies wanting it to be so. Oh well, it’s their call, not yours.
I’m sure if you made a program or some kind of software that you intended to sell, you probably wouldn’t be too pleased if someone you knew took it and spread it on the internet to be had for free, or started handing it out on discs at the school or whatever venue you intended to sell it at.
Why admit in public that you did do that? What if the Feds, Fox and MPAA decide to go bust people for watching it? Why wave a flag? For the record, I highly doubt they will bust viewers–but if you hosted it, that’s another situation altogether.
heath
As an artist the defenders of this behavior offends me.
If someone stole my work that I slaved over, put my own money into producing, and took a chance on making money with, I would be furious. Not just the fiscal damages but the damages to MY creation.
Theft is theft.
I think the graphic at the top of the topic is not complete. I believe it also says that it is illegal to copy and material even WITHOUT FINANCIAL GAIN. Period.
I am not sure how you can actually argue for it. Baffling.
This is my third post on this topic and my last. I believe the person who said something like “you won’t change anyones mind on either side” is probably correct. In my opinion, it is a question of conviction and there is obviously a lot of that lacking.
I wonder what scientific research method was applied to come to the conclusion that most people who download illegal movies support the movie system. Because, hm, let me see here, out of all of the friends I know that for sure download movies, one of them NEVER goes to the theater or buys DVD’s, he has bootlegs of EVERY movie you can think of. Another one goes to the theaters very very rarely, but download and keeps copies of a lot of movies. Would she have gone to the theater to see some of these if not for the easily downloaded versions of it? Can’t tell for sure, but I’m pretty sure that the answer is yes, even if it was a small percentage of them. Or at the very least bought the DVD when it came out or rented it.
Another friend, yes, he seems to be the type you’re talking about, he would watch a bootleg, and if he likes it, he’ll buy the DVD or go to the theater if it’s still out. But there were some movies he was willing to go to a theater for, but found an illegal screener version, didn’t like it much, so didn’t go watch it. So technically, even though he’s not the type to be satisfied with just the digital copy if he likes it, it did cause the theaters and the movie industry to lose some money on the movies that didn’t meet his expectations.
And even myself, I don’t download them, but I have quite a few that do and sometimes when we’re hanging out, we’ll pop a DVD in to watch and sometimes they are illegal copies. And I’ll have to say that sometimes watching a movie that’s still out in theaters have caused me to not watch it in theaters when I otherwise would have. So even in my case, it’s caused me to spend less money on them.
Sure this sounds like it helps the consumer, but you understand the industry is a business, and without us feeling ripped off every now and then, they lose money. And I’ll have to disagree with the theory that the “vast majority” of downloaders support the system and the industry’s profits are not affected by it based on my own “scientific” research.
But again, I’m not preaching. I don’t preach to my friends that do download movies, they know it’s illegal, they know the risks. I hope they don’t get caught simply because they are my friends, but if they do, it’ll be nobody’s fault but their’s and that’s the bottom-line.
@ Daniel F
Maybe you gave the industry more money by downloading and then buying the DVDs but I am sorry to tell you that, for better or for worst, you are one in a million. I personaly know many people who download their movies and I can tell you that not even one of them cares enough to buy the DVD. Not one. The problem with downloading is that I think it becomes a vicious cycle. Many of those friends started by downloading only a movie or two per month. The ones that caught their eye. Now? They download every single one that hits the theatres. They tell me it’s like ‘Yeah, why not? It is easy and free, so I’ll try them all’. And I am not speaking about one or two friends, but many people.
I also want to add that by living outside the US (like me), people don’t get so much saying in what succeeds or fails at the box office because you guys are of course the primary target of the industry. However it still can be a significant amount of consumers, and I say this from what I see, that are lost due to piracy. Not only in the theatres but mostly in DVD sales.
With this I am not stating that I think the prices or methods of the studios are correct, and we should all be in awe of their goodness by providing great entertainment at such a low cost, but I do think that they dictate the rules and you either follow them or you don’t. I for one protest against that by only going to a theatre only when I really really expect a good movie. Which happens less that once a month.
On another note, I also give downloaders a point when it comes to TV-Shows. Judging from my reality, every person in the US that loves or has any interest in that form of entertainment should count themselfs lucky to be able to watch them so regularly. I trol around the internet and most of the comments I see are complaints about one show being cancelled or delayed or just having too much comercials (?!). You shold try waiting for your show 5, 6 or 7 months or even having to import the DVD set. Most of your websites have a protection against non-US IPs so that route is cut off. For most people, that failing means not watching the show.
That was a little rant that needed to be written in a while. But despite that, and not being American, I do have to say that you are the best source of entertainment and that I have nothing but nice things to say about the Americans that I’ve met.
Screen Rant has played a big part in all this I’ve been saying, specially the part about being able to recognize something that I think is deserving of my money.
I thank you very much about that.
The problem with modern society is that we have entered an age of moral relativism in which the overriding philosophy is that all truth is relative. I’m sorry to say, but this is a fallacy. Facts can be changed, but truth is truth whether anyone believes it or not. You can yell at a bird that it is an elephant, and you can convince those around you that it is an elephant. However, the nature of the bird does not change. So, where does this leave the argument? Theft is wrong, no matter what justification you use. If you knowingly come into the possession of a stolen iPod, film, or song, not only are you breaking the law, but you are also in the moral wrong. If you want to argue that there is justification to download a film because a studio charges too much for a theater viewing, you are only manipulating the FACTS. The TRUTH is that you are a thief and you are in the wrong.
@790
I like your point about keeping the internet free. Another analogy might be taxing all roads and highways to keep burglars from driving to the places they into break into.
This thread is going back and forth about piracy with every person who feels it is quasi legal missing the point. That being if it was their creation and their intellectual property that was being passed around willy nilly by hundreds of thousands people without their permission or compensation it would be perfectly Ok. Right? The shoe being on the other foot would be decried as totally unfair by those folks.
The point is simple: It’s some else’s property regardless of how you look at it. Owning a copy is receiving stolen goods. Period. And thats a felony isn’t it?
@Daniel F, did you want sympathy? Is that why you told us about your sister? Same thing happend to my sister but that doesnt mean i should go on here and start bashing a website for being truthful. Have fun going to other websites, you wont be missed here.
@Vic, personally, i think you are being way too nice to these people. I know you have more that you are holding back. Same thing happend to my sister and when i read your comment i didnt get mad at you, it just got me more pissed off at these people who keep giving stupid ass excuses for downloading the film. And the people saying that its not illegal cuz you are just watching it on a website, well LOL, you know its an illegal copy so you know its wrong. Its like watching your best friend kill someone and then going next to the body and kicking it. Oh wait did i just compare people who watch pirated movie with murderers? Yup, I did. They both have the same mindset, they think what they do is ok and then they give excuses for it. Vic, dont hold anything back, im pretty sure you can end the whole conversation with one single comment
I download movies, and I do buy the ones I like on DVD. Most of my friends are like that, not “one in a million” as others have said. I don’t want to go to the theater, and would happily buy the movie if it were on pay per view or dvd the day of release.
Am I stealing? You bet. But I also look at this as motivation for the movie industry to move into modern times. If it weren’t for the pirating, these discussions wouldn’t even happen. So, maybe some good can come of this.
Also, I just cannot see how people can call downloading stealing, but are ok with someone borrowing a movie from a friend, or watching it with a friend who bought it. In those cases, you didn’t pay. Sorry, but that’s also stealing.
Man, I can’t believe I just read every comment. Let me give my two cents, and ask you guys a question.
I’m only 19, but I like to think I’m a pretty big movie buff. I’m in college now, so I have less spending money than I used to, but I used to buy tons of DVDs. My personal collection is well over 500 titles. I won’t lie; I have downloaded movies in the past, but like what several other people have said, if I liked the film I went out and bought the DVD. I’m not trying to justiy downloading movies I don’t own, though, as I know full well its illegal. I don’t do it any more, because in my opinion a digital copy confined to my computer just isn’t the same as an official DVD I can add to my shelf.
That’s why I personally hope that DVD and Bluray last, and aren’t replaced with digital media like everyone is saying they might be, because I’m kind of a purist that way.
However, I do still download movies I have an official copy of it, and I’d like to know what you guys think of that. From what I understand, it’s technically illegal, but do you consider it wrong?
I’ll use Dark Knight as my most recent example. I have a Creative media player that I like to take on the road. I wanted a digital copy of the Dark Knight that I could upload on it. I went out and I bought the regular DVD, and it came with a voucher to download a digital copy for two bucks. I decided to use it.
But I couldn’t for the life of me figure out how to download the movie. It seemed like in an effort to prevent piracy, the studio made it almost impossible to actually get an offical digital copy from them.
I tried ripping my own copy off the DVD, but they put some sort of digital protection on it that freeware software couldn’t read.
So I downloaded a digital copy of Dark Knight from a pirating web site. So I’d like to ask, do you consider this wrong? I purchased a copy of the dvd, not to mention several movie tickets, so should I be allowed to own a free digital copy as well? Or should people who legally buy the dvd still have to buy it again if they want a digital copy?
Frankly, if the studios made it easier to get a copy from them, I’m sure less people would be inclined to do it the illegal way. I was full and ready to pay two dollars for a digital copy, but I don’t want them to make me jump through hoops just so I can PAY them for a copy.
@Josh R
Actually, I haven’t used the option, but I’ve purchased DVD/Blu-ray movies recently that DID have some sort of digital download included.
Vic
@ Frank, ummmm no the studio sold a legal copy to your friend making it his property, then you borrowed it from him with permission. So it’s not stealing. If you would have taken it from him without permission then it would be stealing
So you think enjoying other people’s property without paying and watching it by borrowing from a friend (who paid) is the same thing?
I know the studios game is not fair, specially because a 2 minute trailer (which is what most movies give away before opening) can be very deceiving for the customer. I do condemn the ones that don’t give enough information to form an opinion but I also am able to (more or less) choose and antecipate which ones will make me say ‘Money well spent’. And I think anyone with little effort can make those choices. So I do not think that downloading 10 movies and buying 2 of those is right.. What about the ones which you might have given a shot?
Also, on the point of the borrowing, the studios make the rules about that form of entertainment and we should not break them. We should bend them. That’s borrowing and lending. Even if 5 friends share 1 legal copy, that is still one copy sold. Nothing ilegal, it’s their problem if they didn’t make it available in other ways. Or their problem if they didn’t made it good enough for your tastes.
On another note, all the comments that I read about people who downloaded and then supported the industry, I found none saying something about watching it in a theater. I guess it is just anxiety then, no? You could have the same experience (maybe better, considering DVD/BR quality) just a few months down the line.. And without doing anything ilegal. I mean, you are bound to either know someone who has it or even be able to rent it..
you have a good point but there’s no need to be a dick about it… Its not going to stop anything from happening the movie will still be releases and will probably make a ass of money and if they don’t its their own fault…if movie tickets and concession items weren’t sky high i’m sure people would go to the movies
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