‘The Walking Dead’ and Its Characters Wind Up Falling Off the Wagon

Published 1 year ago by , Updated October 29th, 2013 at 3:51 pm,

Lawrence Gilliard Jr. Norman Reedus and Danai Gurira in The Walking Dead Isolation The Walking Dead and Its Characters Wind Up Falling Off the Wagon

[This is a review of The Walking Dead season 4, episode 3. There will be SPOILERS]


After pulling drama out of a deadly illness and the subsequent horrors that come from it, The Walking Dead finds itself in a familiar predicament, in that the law of diminishing returns has set in and there seems to be less and less actual drama being pulled from the current situation.

One of the main sources of trouble this show has with regard to its narrative is that stories tend to get bogged down. Whether it’s the supposed idyllic isolation of Hershel’s farm in season 2, or the overly drawn out conflict between the Governor and Rick (and perhaps the overly drawn out conflict between Rick and himself) in season 3, the show’s desire to maintain an atmosphere and keep the action (as it were) located in and around one particular place also tends to bring everything else around it grinding to a halt.

While we see that happening in the prison, to its credit, ‘Isolation’ manages to split the storylines and find a decent change of pace by clustering various characters around one another and seeing what kind of dynamic emerges from that. In that regard, the episode puts Daryl, Michonne, Tyreese and Bob on a mission that manages to supply the episode with plenty of action and splattering zombie heads, but there’s not really much in the way of new story generated from yet another search for supplies that winds up intersecting with a migration of the undead. Now granted, the giant swarm of walkers is still an unnerving sight slightly more than three seasons in, but the event, as well as watching someone succumb to his emotions, just feels familiar, and doesn’t really add anything compelling to the story at hand.

Andrew Lincoln in The Walking Dead Isolation The Walking Dead and Its Characters Wind Up Falling Off the Wagon

And speaking of hands, Rick sprains his early in the episode after the discussion into who murdered Karen and David turns violent because Tyreese is now a ticking time bomb of anger and grief. Now, it’s clear that the show is trying to draw some kind of parallel between Rick’s past issues with violence and instability and Tyreese’s current emotional state, but what it doesn’t seem to understand is that Rick’s issues with instability and violence didn’t lead to good storytelling; it just managed to make the character look foolish and prone to bad decisions.

So when Hershel talks to Rick about “falling off the wagon,” there’s a whole other level of subtext to those words, as ‘Isolation’ demonstrates how in order to generate some sense of conflict and suspense, The Walking Dead seems to have fallen back into the old habit of characters making unintelligent decisions unnecessarily and justifying them as being for the greater good. To that end, Rick’s now faced with Carol being a murderer, but having done it because there’s nothing she wouldn’t do to protect the people inside the prison.

Bad decisions can sometimes generate the best kind of drama, but they usually don’t come at the complete expense of the character’s development and previous history. At any rate, hopefully the writers can take Carol’s misguided efforts in quashing the outbreak and turn them into a compelling story in which Rick is forced to make a choice between one person and her overall worth in regard to the group’s greater good.


The Walking Dead continues next Sunday with ‘Indifference’ @9pm on AMC. Check out a preview below:

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  1. I think the show is a 100 times better than the last few seasons. Although the writers and director are using the same formula…I disagree that it feels similar. It seems the writers and directors are trying to do it right this time. There is a real sense of emotion and connection with the characters that has been lost over the seasons. The past season was basically a soap opera with zombies. This season is dealing with the possibilities of what could/would happen in a situation the group is in and the outcomes.

    The actors have stepped up there game and Carol has become a great character. Even Rick has improved from the past seasons. Thank God there is no hallucinations of Lori. I like that Rick lost control…he has always played the “good” guy part for to long. Two of the best Rick moments in the series…when Rick kills the two guys in the bar to save Glenn and Herschel. The other…when Rick kills the Spanish guy in the prison. Moments like those and last night show that Rick can’t always keep it together no matter how hard he tries…and will make the necessary choices.

    Overall I am excited for this season. I was very reluctant because of how the show was going. It lost what the first season had…emotion, depth and great story telling. The past few seasons became watered down T.V. for the masses. It will be interesting to watch how the events of the flu impact the group and who survives emotionally and physically.

  2. wish they would have shown how tyrese got out of that horde of zombies that would have been bad ass

    • Oh he just kept playing “whack a zombie” until he ran out (although they left him because he looked pretty screwed being nearly surrounded…I was even a bit ticked off thinking that was it for him)

      • There was a similar scene in the comics with Tyrese except he was trapped in room inside the prison (I think some sort of gym). Same circumstances though, a ton of walkers and he was left behind by people who thought he was screwed. They later went back with more people to clear out the room to find Tyrese surrounded by a mess of destroyed walkers. Tyrese is a strong character and can do a lot of damage in bursts of raw emotion.

        • I was super stoked to see that scene play out. It’s one of my favs from the comics. Of course I’d have liked to see it played out in the gym with more zombies but they did an okay job of it in the series.

  3. I have to say that Carol being a murderer was a character profile blunder.
    It simply is not something she would do based on what we know about her.
    Everything she represented and stood for is pretty much out the window now.

    • I tend to agree. But I’m interested how the characters will develop …

    • It’s a surprised but based on articles and interviews it’s all going to tie together in the upcoming episodes. I think we also got a glimpse of it when Rick asked her what she was willing to do to protect those she loves. It appears she was burning the bodies to try to prevent the virus from spreading to protect the children. You also saw how doing it is destroying her emotionally(something that might tie into the comic version of Carol’s fate). The good thing from all of this is that Tyreese is becoming the comic version of Tyreese that I was waiting for. It seems Gimple is trying to bring the comic version of these characters back slowly. I’ve read an article online that this year every episode has some “hints” as to where all of this is going (Macon, Plant, zombies bringing the fence down, Bob, Dr Z, Hershel speech).

    • wait…..who said she was a murderer? All she had to do was “kill” them after they died and then drug the bodies out and burned them as a possible safety factor.

      The only blunder in writing imho was her not speaking up and taking responsibility for the action right then. She did what needed to be done and it was no more complex than that.

      • Killing with intent is murder.
        Which is exactly what she did.

        • You have any proof she actually killed them before they died on their own? Because I sure didn’t see that little incident happen and she sure didn’t cop to “pre” killing them.

          • She admitted to killing them too Rick.
            And you can’t kill anyone already dead.

            “Rick’s now faced with Carol being a murderer”

            • ok, I could have sworn Rick’s question was non-specific but I just rewatched it and he said point blank, “Did you kill them” and she said, “yes” so I stand corrected.

              • Alrighty then…

    • Not necessarily. We’ve seen so far that she’s obviously grown a lot colder and emotionless in the 6 months that passed between seasons, and this is showing just how cold she’s actually become.


    I’m guessing with the way this is going with Carol that she is going to hang herself like in the comic, basically with the guilt and condemnation that is going to come from killing David and Karen.

    • I don’t think so. Carol is already a totally different character than in the comic book. And going this direction would destroy everything they built with this character. But when I think of season 3 final … well, who knows?

      • I think they will introduce characters and major events from the comics, but they have made it quite clear that characters will, for the most part, be dying in a different order and in different ways. I like it, because it gives it some tension that would otherwise not exist for me if they followed the comics beat for beat.

    • Carol didn’t hang herself. She let herself get bit by a walker that they had tied up

      • That’s right.. was I thinking about Maggie? I think she tried to hang herself.

  5. I’m surprised, because this review isn’t the praising hymn. And you’re right! Good one.
    This episode was better than the first two in terms of characterisation and plot developement. But it was still a pretty boring episode. The flu plot isn’t really a good idea. Fighting walkers and bad guys is much more exciting.

    The supply mission incident with the walkers herd is again a really silly set up. Four people in the car and no one can’t see the walkers herd ahead … because listening to the radio! Come one … Michonne, Daryl and the others are no idiots, so why do they have to act like idiots – just to create a dangerous situation. But at least I’m interested in where this supply mission will lead the story … so far no goal in sight.
    By the way: the reminiscence to Tyreese’s fight in the comic book (where he was overun by walkers in the prison and killed them all in a room) failed to be cool.

    The flu plot in the prison is pretty lame. And I don’t like direction they took with Carol. We’ll see where this is going.

    However, in my opinion the show has to re-establish Rick as a leader again and end his permanent state of mental instability (since the death of Lori). In the comic book he has those instabilities too (especially after the death of Lori), but they are not so centered in the plot and more secondary. And Rick always pulls himself together and finds a way to survive (mostly for him and Carl and the core group).

  6. So far this season is bringing back my excitement for this series after a crap static season 3.. I am glad to see they are bringing back the zombie threat… Its gonna hit fan soon and I can’t wait…. My only complaint this week was Marilyn Manson on the talking dead someone shut that guy up plez.. Never have him back again

    • Manson seemed like he was a little drunk or on drugs. I’ve seen lots of his interviews in the past and he always was quick and sounded intelligent. He was neither on talking Dead.

  7. I was actually going to say quite the contrary, I thought Marilyn was great. Chris Hardwck is the one that needs to be never allowed on television again!! that guy is the epitome of a tool

    • You’re totally right, I love how most people would look
      At Marilyn and label him a freak (something I did for a long time) but he is actually smarter and more thoughtful. I don’t hate Chris Hardwick but he was definitely making himself look stupid last night. I really enjoyed Marilyn on there.

    • You’re kidding right? MM seemed to just want to talk about whatever he wanted whether they wanted to talk to him or not. I agreed with Chris that MM maybe made sense about 2 or 3 times. At least that is how I saw it. I understand it’s an opinion, not a fact, but I feel that Chris did the best with what he was given. He could have either sat there and been a “gracious host” and proceeded as normal or he could poke a little fun and fuel the fire of the show a bit. I think he made the right choice in choosing the latter.

      • I was surprised by Marilyn Manson as well. Yes he talked a lot. I think he had some good, deep thoughts but just not enough time to explain them. I definitely liked him more than the other two on the couch (ugh Jack Osbourne). I try to like Chris Hardwick but it was tough last night when he was just making fun of a guy who appreciates the complexities of the show and discusses it as such. (Cue Jack Osbourne’s comment about being punch in the head…thanks Jack!)

        Good Episode overall. I think this season has been great and will be as it continues to expand on current situations/issues. Thought this review was kind of rough on it.

    • Yeah, Brain Warner was doing nothing but blathering for the first 30 mins, making little sense. He didn’t start making some logical sense until the last half and even then, Hardwck had to correct him a couple times because he was wrong.

  8. Actually this revelation in regards to Carol has been building and it was close to being a “didn’t see that coming” moment until the scene with Tyreese when he asked her to keep an eye on his sister because he trusts her and knows that she cares. That triggered my “Carol did it” response. I’m concerned with this direction however in that it has the possibility of boxing them in as far as where they can take it but we will see. I disagree with Kevin in that I believe the episode showcased some very strong, believable human drama and some of this season’s best acting. His brushing off the quest for medication as yet another search for supplies is also unwarranted as it makes sense in the storyline and gave a significantly important plot development that seems to have been totally overlooked by the reviewer (uh hem…voice on the radio anyone?). Hershel did exactly what you would anticipate his character would do and his dialogue was well written as was the wonderful scene between Tyreese and his sister before he left. I’m not impressed so far with the whole Bob character as it seems to be just sitting there with no specific purpose but that may be rectified as time goes on. Also Kevin, the characters aren’t making unintelligent decisions, they are making emotional decisions which shows their frailties and faults which are the trademark of what goes into making us human. The reason I like the characterizations on this show is exactly that…they are all imperfect human beings. This episode wasn’t quite as compelling as the first two but still was an example of why it is one of TVs best shows.

    • I agree with this review. I’m pretty sure the voice on the radio will lead into nothing and just fizzle out (if at all) … it’s just another stupid move to get the characters into dangerous situations. Four people in the car and no one can’t see the walkers herd ahead and they can’t slow down to listen … come one, I know you praise the show anyway, but Michonne, Daryl and the others are no idiots, so why do they have to act like idiots – just to create a dangerous situation.
      But ok, at least there’s a plot outside the prison. Because the flu plot in the prison is pretty lame.
      I’m really interested, where this supply mission plot line will lead us …

      Season 4 is so far the weakest season in my opinion. But this episode was better than the first two … so hopefully the show will get some momentum again.

      • I agree with this review. I’m pretty sure the voice on the radio will lead into nothing and just fizzle out (if at all) … it’s just another stupid move to get the characters into dangerous situations. Four people in the car and no one can’t see the walkers herd ahead and they can’t slow down to listen … come one, I know you praise the show anyway, but Michonne and Daryl are smart bad ass, so why do they have to act so silly – just to create a dangerous situation.
        But ok, at least there’s a plot outside the prison. Because the flu plot in the prison is pretty lame.
        I’m really interested, where this supply mission plot line will lead us …

        Season 4 is so far the weakest season in my opinion. But this episode was better than the first two … so hopefully the show will get some momentum again.

        • As much as I respect the way you analyze things, you have to get over this labeling of characters and having that define their every movement and reaction. Real human beings do not function that way. Daryl and Michone are badasses therefore they wouldn’t do this or would do that. Daryl and Michone are people and they had just been shocked by an occurance of monumental proportions which would distract ANYBODY when it happened. Sorry friend, I just do not believe there was any contrivance to that scene and I also feel you are way off base with the voice on the radio having no play in the future development of the plot. The writers have never stooped to that in the past and I don’t think they would result to it right now while they are at the top of their game (IMO).

          • +1

            The writers have even said the voice on the radio is someone who will be introduced later in the season (-_-)

          • Ok, so you have more information than me. But if the voice opens a plot line, it’s still an overused and silly set up to crash into walkers on a lonely highway. It wasn’t that silly than the supermarket scene, but still the same direction …

            … but maybe you’re right with too much analyzing. In fact the whole show (even the comic book) heavily depends on people (especially Rick) doing silly things and therefore getting in messed up situations (for example I remember in the first season how dumb I considered camping in a wood near Atlanta and then wonder to get overrun by walkers by night).
            So maybe I’m just tired of all that repeating all over again (since I also read the comic book) …

            However, the plots may have always been simple (and the acting of characters stupid), but in my opinion the characterisation in all seasons before was better.
            They have to get together a group of very special characters again and re-establish Rick as leader. At the moment Rick’s group seems vanished.

            Guess after the (stretched) prison story arc it will be ok again. However, if not soon I get tired of the show.

            • This post, especially coming from you is very disappointing to me. Listen it is easy to be an armchair quarterback when you are an omnipresent observer and call the actions and decisions of the characters stupid. You have no idea how you would act or what choices you would make if such a scenario occurred in real life to you and don’t say you would because you don’t know until you are confronted with it at the moment. In real life, people do not make the right choices that you seem to think they should automatically do with your 20/20 hindsight. The outing that you keep on insisting was a stupid, obvious set up was in most others opinions a well executed scene. I have already covered the ground of how it made perfect sense that they were caught off guard, others have explained how the zombie hoard was not immediately visible (and on repeat viewing it is clear that they are correct) but you will never see it differently because somewhere along the way you started viewing this series with negative tinged critical eyes. Look at it from a different perspective, if characters (and people in real life) always did things right, if the right choices were always made, if the correct decisions were made 100% of the time, there would be no drama to behold, everything would go smoothly and then you talk about boring. Hope you don’t give up on the show but at the same time, maybe you should.

              • It’s kind of funny because people always say they would react a certain way when they are in a certain situation but when it actually happens all of that “common sense” goes out the window. Having friends who work in gas stations overnight, I always asked them what would they do if someone were to try to rob them at night. They came up with all these things they would do. “I would never freeze up”, “I would know that there is a switch at the bottom that turns the alarm on” but yet when it actually happened, all of those “common sense” actions went out the window. My dad has a friend whos father was in the holocaust and even he was saying all the “common sense” goes out the window because unless you really know how to set aside your fears, it will take over and make you do stupid things.

              • The Walking Dead is not real, it’s just a fictional tv show – and therefore some dramaturgic rules has to be kept in mind. It has to feel real in the movie or TV show – not by thinking it through and explaining plot holes or off-character-writing afterwards.
                Since I’m a writer myself, I can tell you that if you would describe a truly happened scene exactly as it happened … very often the audience would say: totally unrealistic! So you have to consider what feels right and realistic in the fictional reality you are creating. It’s not really relevant what real people would do, it’s more relevant to make the audience believe that real people would act like this, if this was real (and not contrary). In such an fictional reality you can accept many things as real (for example that action movie heroes or even the characters of TWD can physically take much more than any real person could), but if you realize plot holes and inconsistency already while watching … something could have been done better!

                All I’m saying is, that the show starts to lack consistency and that Rick as a leader and the group as a group of special characters (fighting for survival in a hostile world of walkers and bad guys while trying to keep up humanity) got out of the focus and should get in the center of the show again.

                So the prison story arc should end soon. The Governor should attack soon … and then die! And then they should move forward without stretching and fillers all over …

                I know, you don’t consider it stretched. However, I do … but for now I’m accepting it as a interim low and hope for better times ahead soon!

                • And that’s just what they’ve done…made it feel real by having people react more often than not in the imperfect way that people will act in real life. of course a fictional tale about a zombie apocalypse requires some dramatic license and any rational human being knows that our core group have each individually been in situations that in real life they would have never survived but that’s ok. . And stop with the comic book comparisons. Two different interpretations…two different storytelling formats. The comic book has certain constraints due to the very nature of the format. The TV series gives the storytellers the opportunity to open things up, to expand and add depth (which you refer to as stretching).

                  • Here I agree: comic book and TV are different formats and the TV show did so far a pretty good job in adapting and changing things and characters.

                    After a look on the cast list of season 4, I have a pretty good guess who’s the voice on the radio is. And so I’m sure the prison is history soon and the group will be on the road again. Yeah! Leaves me a bit appeased. :)

                    Still I consider the start of season 4 weak (and contrary to your impression, the writers failed to add depth – for Rick as well as the other group characters). Hopefully the writers then will do better without fillers and stretching …

                    • fillers and stretching to you…depth to me. That’s where we agree to disagree. For me, this is the best start to a new season since season 1.

                    • I considered season 3 really great at the beginning and it had awesome episodes, but failed by not delivering the final the whole season was building up to.

                      Would be great, to have a season 4 starting weak (for me) and getting better and better … so we can agree it was an amazing season overall. ;)

                    • Here’s hoping!

      • Funny. Put the word “idi0t” in the comment and it will “await moderation” forever … so some characters in the show just act “silly” and not like “”idi0ts” ;)

    • I agree with this review. I’m pretty sure the voice on the radio will lead into nothing and just fizzle out (if at all) … it’s just another stupid move to get the characters into dangerous situations. Four people in the car and no one can’t see the walkers herd ahead and they can’t slow down to listen … come one, I know you praise the show anyway, but Michonne and Daryl are smart bad ass, so why do they have to act so silly – just to create a dangerous situation.
      But ok, at least there’s a plot outside the prison. Because the flu plot in the prison is pretty lame.
      I’m really interested, where this supply mission plot line will lead us …

      Season 4 is so far the weakest season in my opinion. But this episode was better than the first two … so hopefully the show will get some momentum again.

      • I have never known this show to introduce a significant plot development and then just let it fizzle out. I think this will be important issue in the future.

      • From articles online on a different site, the voice on the radio is going to play a role. I am pretty sure the prison environment will not go an entire season. I think it’s starting to build up to “something” that will force them out.

        • The second attack of the Governor will force them out of the prison.

          However, I don’t really care what forces them out of the prison … just soon, please!

          And if the voice on the radio is going anywhere: Great! But the writers work with so many tricks to artificially create dangerous situations … I wouldn’t wonder if it goes nowhere. Would be totally ok, if I’m wrong.

      • Or you could have just taken five seconds to look at the cast list for this season, which would let you know that there are several major characters from the comics getting introduced this season (and on talking dead last night it seemed pretty clear that the voice on the radio was one of these characters.

        • LOL….you sir are on the right track

        • Thank you for the hint with the cast list! And since I’ve followed your advice, I’m appease now and see this (in my opinion still pretty weak season start) as interim low. Still I think it’s streched and the prison story arc should have ended with season 3.

          I have a pretty good guess now, who’s the voice on the radio. :)

    • Yeah, what Robert said! Thanks for saving me the typing. I’m excited for this season and think it’s gotten off to a wonderful start with all kinds of possibilities.

  9. the greed from the producers has made this show pure and utter crap. such a shame had such promise. will not b watching in the future. i give it 1 more season max b4 its canceled.

    • I don’t know what this show does to wheel people in cause they got me but is about too loose me…it’s the only show on tv that can be completely terrible and boring for 55 min then is the last 5 min gets somewhat interesting…and we say it wAs a great episode..maybe I’m too critical but the virus just is interesting too me because it has the cast once again doing foolish things..Herschel has too kids..I get him giving the tea..but some doctor you barely know spitting blood in your face and your ok with that…it looks like lizzy is the killer..unless she is that bad of a actor..that fake cough was unwatchable…if she is another dum plot..just not physically possible for her to kill and drag to grown bodies outside

      • It wheels people in by constantly being an exciting, thought provoking, totally involving show that is well acted, well written and well executed that on top of all that is set against a zombie apocalypse. I once mentioned to you that you omit details in your posts, now I wonder if you just don’t notice them. Carol is the killer. Of course, I suppose they could throw us a curve ball and have Carol covering for Lizzy which wouldn’t be half bad.

      • Lizzy is the killer of who?

        • The 2 bodies she seemed really eager to go in tank..right after that fake cough..but I give it one mire season to cancellation also…I think a lot of fans will face reality not knocking them..I was once a huge fan…but they are making us have to suspend more and more belief and common sense..Now the airwaves are working..I been saying it’s not like they are the only people alive..so as I said it makes more sense fir them to be on the move looking for a cure

          • More people are watching now than ever before so I have serious doubts about your predicted demise. You keep threatening (promising) to stop watching. You should. The quality improves as your complaints increase. It’s a no win situation for you. Listen, just because I love it doesn’t mean it’s good and just because you hate it doesn’t mean it’s bad. It’s all a matter of taste.

          • Did you even watch the episode?

            • I watched it but Carols confession fell flat..question did Lizzy wanting to be put in the tank seem strange…she had that huge knife on her side and with carol criticizing her maybe she went crazy..seems far fetch but that’s what this show has been into lately..Your thoughts on if you think could be lizzy would be appreciated

              • IYO Carol’s confession fell flat. IMO, if you were watching the show all the events involving Carol were leading up to that moment and it seemed pretty evident that would be it’s resolution. It would be far fetched for it to have been Lizzie unless Carol discovered it and assisted her in the “clean up” but I don’t see it going that way. I found nothing odd about Lizzie wanting to be in the tank and I haven’t really found the show going in the direction of far fetched other than it is about a zombie apocalypse. The human landscape within that scenario has been very true to life (IMO).

                • Carol was the killer. Melissa McBride kind of spilled it in one of her interviews. Now that’s not to say she killed both of them but that she played a part. Maybe Lizzy played some part in it and she was protecting the girls out maybe it’s just Carol playing the mother role by burning the bodies of the people who got infected. The whole Rick questioning of her kind of makes me feel like he understands what she was trying to do but maybe feels like she went about it all wrong or it could be something else entirely.

                • personally don’t see how Lizzie could over power two adults, ill or not

                  • I don’t see how she can..I kind of hope it’s not true because it would be too far fetch…I just think that no director would let that seen through..I’m thinking there is no way her acting can be that bad and they allow it..

                    • Her acting wasn’t bad IMO you just didn’t care for it. It wouldn’t be far fetched if Carol was the ringleader in the act. Don’t see it going that way. I think Carol was definately the culprit…but you never know.

              • Carol was the killer, dude. Stop trying to over analyze things.

                • If you bothered to read my other posts you would realize that I too believe that Carol is the killer. I was responding to someone else’s post and just acknowledging that it would be a neat twist and how it might be possible. Not being overly analytical dude, just contributing to the conversation.

          • This show won’t get cancelled anytime soon.

    • Ratings keep improving each season so your prediction seems highly unlikely.

      • This^
        I keep seeing this “one more season and then it will be canceled” BS everywhere.
        Its the highest Demo rated show on TV that is not Football.
        Not the highest on Cable… ON TV. Period. It will be on at least 2 more season AFTER that changes, which wont be for a few more seasons at least.

    • The ratings for the show continue to stay strong so unless it takes a huge ratings drop (like AOS) then I highly doubt this show is going anywhere. More people are watching the show now. The popularity of the show is growing especially with the comic book fans now (comicbook sites show a dramatic increase in approval from the comicbook crowd). If anything I think AMC would have trouble keeping the show if TWD/Kirkman/Moore gets higher offers with other networks

      • There has been shows with high ratings cancelled before..because of not high enough when you take the budget under consideration..but then again..if they are not on the move which is better show in my opinion..I don’t see it costing that much

        • Shows with high ratings have never been cancelled before!! Shows that had high ratings whose ratings had shown a steep decline and haven’t been able to get the producers and on screen talent to trim their salaries and budgets have been cancelled.

          • @rob u actually saying the same thing I just said high ratings but budget problems wether it be the person making it not wanting to make there show common or cheap..or budget between employers and employees..It has happened..do u know if the budget is higher or lower from season 1

            • You missed my main point…shows that had at one point high ratings but had experienced significant ratings decline and weren’t able to work out budget decreases have been cancelled. No show experiencing HIGH ratings while they are experiencing them has ever been cancelled. Don’t know much about TWD’s budget but I remember a poster from last season going by reno2200 saying they cut the budget after season one.

              • The show isn’t going anywhere. This is AMCs big money maker. Unless there is a huge decline in ratings (16 down to 8 million) then I don’t see it going anywhere. If there are budget issues, salary, ect, then the show won’t be off for too long because the interest to pick up a show like this would be overwhelming considering it’s the highest rated show in TV. Not just cable but TV right now. That’s just not something that just gets cancelled all of a sudden.

                • Third week in a row with The Walking Dead having the highest ratings for Sunday beating out Sunday Night football again. I am still surprised by last week when it had more ratings than the Broncos/Indy game with Manning going back home and all. It seems the ratings are also holding steady at around 12 million and from the sounds of things season 5 renewal is already in the works this early in the game. Yeah, I don’t see this show going anywhere for at least another 2-3 seasons

  10. Lizzy and her sister being the murderers and carol covering for them would be a great plot twist, they’ve made such a big deal in the show of carol training the kids to kill zombies that it’s obviously going to backfire, i agree that this show is boring 80 percent of the episode and just gets interesting the last 20 percent, which sucks, it should be like breaking bad where every commercial break left you eager for more, but thinking that this show will not make it past this season is extremely naive, in the audience there are only a few survivors who can see the flaws in this show but most of the people who watch it are walkers who just want to eat more and more and more so this show is going for the long run, one of the problems is that most of the characters are getting annoying, whatever happened to showing flashbacks of their past lives??

    • Insulting those who disagree does not advance your arguments about the show’s lack of quality but instead gives the impression that you don’t have much of a valid argument to put forth.

    • I agree the flashbacks I was thinking that..it was interesting too see how they were before..long as theyddon’t overuse it..nobody has a personality anymore besides Herschel so why no see pre apocalypse..when I said one more season I mean after this one..unless the make a dramatic change…which they can easily do just don’t know if they want too…one trip to Miami beac.lol..they were talking about Florida in season 1 WHY NOT

    • True. This season was better than the first two, but still most of the time boring. The flu plot is just a bad idea, because it’s much more exciting to fight walkers and bad guys than the flu …

      • Love the flu plot as it plays into and complicates the other scenarios. (People become walkers as they succumb to the flu, some of the best zombie fighters are unavailable because they contracted the flu increasing the threat potential of any walker attack and the risks the noninfected need to take in order to try to save the loved ones who are infected. It just provides so many wonderfully interesting complications to the basic format). On a side note, I hope figures4eva’s conspiracy theory regarding who the REAL killer is pans out. It would be a nice clever twist. I’m okay with the way it stands now but would be impressed by such a turnaround.

  11. I hate how, immediately after a zombie apocalypse, nobody knows how to operate a motor vehicle safely anymore.

  12. I still believe season 1 possibly even the pilot is the beat part of this series. Notging seems quite as good to me

  13. This episode was better than the first two in terms of characterisation and plot developement. But it was still a pretty boring episode. The flu plot isn’t really a good idea. Fighting walkers and bad guys is much more exciting.

    The supply mission with the walkers herd is again a really silly set up. Four people in the car and no one can’t see the walkers herd ahead … because listening to the radio! Come one … Michonne and Daryl are both smart bad ass, so why do they have to act so silly – just to create a dangerous situation. But at least I’m interested in where this supply mission will lead the story … so far no goal in sight.

    By the way: the reminiscence to Tyreese’s fight in the comic book (where he was overun by walkers in the prison and killed them all in a room) failed to be cool.

    The flu plot in the prison is pretty lame. And I don’t like direction they took with Carol. We’ll see where this is going.

    However, in my opinion the show has to re-establish Rick as a leader again and end his permanent state of mental instability (since the death of Lori). In the comic book he has those instabilities too (especially after the death of Lori), but they are not so centered in the plot and more secondary. And Rick always pulls himself together and finds a way to survive (mostly for him and Carl and the core group).

    • Sorry but I don’t think the supply mission was a silly set up but was in fact a neat set piece that worked brilliantly. I guess you never looked for something in your glove compartment only to look up and find out you are practically into the guardrail or worse yet staring into the license plate of a friggin mack truck! And of course all their attention was focused on the radio…duh…they were hearing a live broadcast that they never thought possible. Never bored for one minute with this episode. Good human drama entertains me just as much as fastpaced zombie action.

      • Well, you praise the show anyway and you will always find everyday settings to explain … but
        1. it isn’t good writing to use things over and over … and I remember a few scenes of people driving into walkers while looking for something (Lori did in season 2, right?), hearing to the radio or just quarrel … it’s overused!

        and 2.it is also totally unrealistic. Ok, in an everyday situation on your way to work it’s possible … but not when you’re out there on survival … Michonne and Daryl are not new to this game … this is so artificial set up. Then suddenly: the herd is here … come on … but ok, I liked the action scene and how the car got stuck in walkers. But then they totally messed up the reminiscence on the Tyreese comic book scene (when he got overrun by walkers in a room in the prison and killed them all alone).

        Anyway, I’m glad there are a plot outside the prison. So far there is no sense in this plot line. But it’s ok, if it just opens the way into a good plot line. We’ll see.

        By the way: I wouldn’t hope too much on the voice in the radio. I’m pretty sure this is just an overused theme to create a situation and it opens no new plot line. I’ll bet you! Hopefully I lose …

        • You complain about the idea of a flu virus in the prison, then complain about other plot elements being reused, saying that they should do the same stuff with the walkers. Some people just can’t be pleased I guess.

          BTW, I thought the scene with Tyrese getting over run with walkers was just as cool as it was in the comics (Yeah, I said it. Blasphemy!)

    • The walkers were up over a hill (according to Walking Dead Live) so Im assuming as they came around the bend or over the hill they weren’t aware. Plus they hit like 4 walkers while swerving once they noticed then into the herd. Also, they were looking down (which is really stupid thing to do during a Zombiepocalypse and really out of character for him)

      • Umm…not sure wht I was thinking but meant to type Talking Dead not Walking Dead Live….LOL…>DURRRHHHH

      • I think my previous post covers that in regards to Daryl looking down. Maybe stupid but totally understandable.

  14. i thought Carol was a lesbian *scratches head*

  15. Not they act like idiots..lol..go ahead cough blood in my face..I’m ok with as a matter of fact I’ll take my mask off…even tho I have 2 daughters to think..

  16. This show blew it during the return from hiatus last season. What did it take like 5/6 episodes to cover 2 days and it wasn’t good television entertainment. It felt like they were given extra shows during shooting and had to stretch it out like butter scraped over too much bread.

    I wonder if it is just a symptom of having a season long plan and then walking scene to scene to reach the end of the season.

    • Stretch if out is a excellent word..lol..last night it took a whole episode for like 10 min of there time…what I mean by that is they were getting ready to leave on the supply run it seemed for almost the whole hour

    • Well, that’s your opinion. This show has had it’s ups and downs, but is still pretty strong. And considering the ratings keep getting higher and higher, shows that you are in the minority, making it kind of hard to prove that this show “isn’t good television entertainment”, cause clearly a lot of people are still entertained.

      • I think a lot of people love the special effects more than the storyline from my observation

        • Sure, the effects are great, but the storyline is still really good. In my opinion (and most of the other people here) the characters have gotten stronger and better as the show has progressed. Of course it’s had flaws, but (to me and a lot of other people) the show is still great. You don’t like the show, I don’t have a problem with that. But your opinion doesn’t mean the show sucks and that’s a fact. Yeah, you could say the same about my opinion, but about 15 million fans and most professional critics would disagree with you here.

          • A lot of those fans are like me sitting around only watching in hopes that this show can get back to form…but it’s getting more and more ridiculous..it’s like they know they can just make anything..nothing about these characters too me are interesting anymore..where is the dark comedy that Shane and merel brought and Daryl..now the show is slow and seems to be going thru the motions and maybe they will throw in a zombie kill it 2

            • Okay, time to get real. If you mean a lot of fans to imply a few hundred, a few thousand, stretch it to a million (not a chance) then maybe there is a point to be made. But really of the millions of viewers who tune in each week the number of folks who are not liking it but hoping it will get better is pretty negligible in the grand scheme of things. The vast majority of fans who tune in each time do so because they like the show. Maybe a fringe out there who tune in to hate it (strange lot those who would waste their time on something they don’t appreciate when they could be doing something they have a positive experience with) and another small fringe who, as you say, hope for improvement but they represent a miniscule portion of the viewers. Let’s face it. None of us who post on these sights are the average viewer. What, maybe 25-30 different posters appear here as opposed to between 12-16 million viewers. We need to gain some perspective here. Seriously!

            • I doubt it. When you have “Sunday Walking Dead” parties around our town, radio stations talking on Mondays about the show when it’s suppose to be an NFL sports radio station, companies doing Walking Dead theme events I doubt it’s “sitting around only watching in hopes that this show can get back to form”. I’ve never experienced a show that has produced more talk or excitement that this show has provided. The only shows that I can think of that does this type of thing is Game of Thrones, Friends back when it was in it’s prime, Lost when it first started, and Breaking Bad but even with that I’ve never seen/heard the kind of media that TWD is getting right now.

  17. loved each and every moment…that is all.

  18. I agree with Kevin, this episode really churned out some very familiar ground. There’s nothing new, I feel like the storyline isn’t moving anywhere, for that reason, the tension is kinda absent. I was hoping they’d go in a different direction instead of once again, ‘go out for supplies’ though I did like the swarm of zombies near the end. I’d also normally be intrigued by the voice message on the radio but for some reason, wasn’t really interested. I’m hoping it leads to something thrilling though.

    I really enjoyed the first two episodes of the season, but they followed through with one ‘whatever’ episode. I’m hoping next week’s is better.

    • I’m also thinking this episode is more of a bridge than anything else. To get things started. We’ll see by next episode I guess.

  19. They have at least once..put something out there but never dove in…What about the helicopter in season 1 ..then in season 2 they showed it again..but they never actually showed the importance of it..

    • Valid point. We were made aware of existing military at some point but any specific reference to the helicopter never happened. I guess it still could figure in sometime down the road…..thanks for reminding me. Still think the voice on the radio is significant.

      • No prob..they told rick he was just seeing things in season one..Then season 2 they showed it again..they can do a lot with that plot if they decide too use it

        • I see what you’re saying, but we can’t really say if they’ve chosen to ignore that plot point of the helicopter or not. After all, at the start of season 3 I had assumed they just abandoned Morgan’s character completely until, well, you know.

          • I see what your saying which Is why I said if they decide too..cause I didn’t want to put my foot in my mouth..it can be introduced at anytime even if rick and the gang are not even aware of some type of military or government layer could be interesting to bring together at the end of it all by I say that’s at least 2 seasons away including this one

  20. Overall, good episode. Had some problems, but still good overall. I thought this episode had some pretty good set up (and because I actually follow the show and watch Talking Dead, the radio thing IS important). No, it’s not a random plot point that will just fizzle out.

    To those who keep complaining about the show, how about you actually stop watching it and stop complaining every week threatening to stop watching it? Boycotting a show doesn’t mean you watch it every week and complain about the episode. Seriously, if you don’t like it (and haven’t liked it for years, as some of you guys have said), don’t watch it, and movie on.

  21. My thoughts…

    I think Lizzy is the one feeding the walkers (or her sister which would be really weird since she called Lizzy the crazy one)

    What if Rick off’s Carol while they are away at some point. Rick did get Carol to say she would do anything for the group. Even killing innocent people. Rick might see that as threat to him or Carl.

    That could lead to some serious conflict between Daryl and Rick. Especially since Daryl likes Carol. Or that might open the door to Daryl and Michone dating.

  22. I think the season thus far has been excellent and much more like season one in both tone and zombie epicness (no more of this having only one zombie appear to be killed the whole show like season two often did)

    As for not seeing the zombies….I believe they were rounding a corner as they started running into the stragglers and just avoiding them became a point of focus, thus not seeing what was waiting in the distance. Happens ALL the time. My only problem was, you do NOT try to backup over 20 zombies. You do a 2 point turn, running over a couple to the side and then going FORWARD. Daryl should have known better (by this time)

    Speaking of Daryl an FYI I just found out…..Daryl is Scud from Blade 2! I knew I had seen him from somewhere but never bothered to read his other acting jobs. I watch Blade 2 for the first time in well 3 years on TV and BAM there he was.

  23. there was some terrible directing and lack of logic in that episode just to be able to put characters in a dramatic situation.

    in the car towards the end, they plough through about 5 zombies, then screech to a halt. they see a sea of zombies headed towards them. so what happens? they wait there for like 15 or so seconds until they’re surrounded then daryl decides to try and reverse and gets the back wheel stuck in a pile of zombies. with such split second decision making i’m surprised any of them can survive. not the actors fault, just bad directing. that car would ahve bben in reverse in an instant rehitting the 3 or 4 zombies it passed and then be out of there.

    then hershel goes to see the sick doctor who says “you shouldn’t be here” – then he proceeds to have a coughing fit which he coughs away, then splutters a load of blood into hershel’s face – really? i don’t think so. being a doctor who has just stated the seriousness of what hershel is doing, then starts a coughing fit . he coughs a few times so its plenty of time for him to look away, yet he splatters all that blood over him.

    started as a good series – now its just the same thing week in week out – becoming very boring with the odd suspenseful action scene – its not that it has to be action all the time but god its becoming a yawnfest! i guess there’s only so much you can do with a storyline of running away from zombies

    • Yawnfest until the last 5 min I been saying..and hershel just sits there and is fine with this guy spittingblood all over him….iit’s only so much u can do by staying stagnant in q boring prison ..not lookingfor a cure or aanything…but if the were on the run there is a lot they can do..like come across other people..find out any word from other states..etc

      • He wasn’t fine with it, just resigned to it. What would you have him do, bash the guys head in? Like the guy did it on purpose. So judgmental! Hershel knew the risk and accepted it.

    • Totally agree here – too often the same things and very implausible settings.
      Disagree about the potential: How much you can do with a storyline of running from walkers and bad guys … or not running anymore … you can read in the comic book.


      Starting the Alexandria Safe-Zone story arc in the comic book (which is the second story arc after the prison story arc, between are The Hunters) I really thought the same: always the same … I’m done … but then it came totally different. But the comic book is really well written and all fits together … one story arc is building a picture of Rick and the group, the next is smashing it again. Aweseome!

      Rick – in the comic book – makes right and wrong decisions, but he never seemed so weak and mental instable like in the TV show!

  24. I’ve read comments with people frustrated that they haven’t addressed the fence saboteur. you know, three episodes in and there is already panic over who’s feeding the walkers. three. episodes. in. jesus Christ. the attention span of the 21st century audience is something to behold.

    I love the flu angle. it adds urgency to the proceedings and has already imperiled most of the cast. as for the group venturing out to locate antibiotics and ” having seen it before “, so I guess the correct course would have been to stay in? jesus, they venture out, they’d do so to look for something of use, considering most of the planet has become the red zone and no one would think in that world to go for power walks to macon or take in a leisure stroll.

    I get the feeling if the group is ousted from the prison and spends a season on the road, looking for living quarters and necessities, they’ll still be complaints over the nomadic approach. you know, ” hey they did this between seasons two and three “, even though the viewing audience was not exposed to it.

    as I have said, to critique aspects of the show is fine, having legions of homers won’t do anyone any good. but when I reach the point of posting a weekly gripe about a ” poorly produced show ” that reeks from top to bottom, where it’s supposedly become the shows death knell that season after season we’re tortured spectators to supply runs, human emotion, and decision making that we’ve seen before, it’s past time to drop the ” deplorable ” viewing experience.

  25. as for Daryl’s driving, from the point of view I saw the scene shot from, it sort of looked like they were heading up hill, especially when Daryl hit this one walker as he was making a hard turn. I’m somewhat surprised the camp sites and traps, like the one on the walker in the woods, didn’t get covered in the review. in addition to the half eaten ground walker, i think the cannibal group is coming into play. i think that’s what the whole clara segment and her murky ethics were for. eventually, i think once the group is weakened and thinned out, due to the virus and the hunters, the governor will return.

  26. I can’t believe the high standards people hold this show to. What is better? The show is somewhat constrained by the universe created in the comic and when you compare the writing to the writing in the comic the tv show is streets ahead.

    Where are people expecting the plot to go? Maybe they can make it that the zombie virus was created by aliens and then Rick and company end up fighting a guerrilla war against a technologically advanced alien race that uses technology to create human slaves. Then another alien race that is at war with the zombie creating aliens could come to Earth and side with Rick. Rick and the Governor can end up becoming best friends as the unite to battle the evil aliens. Would that satisfy the complainers?

    • LOL….right. If you want nonstop zombie action then this isn’t going to be the show you were looking for. Kirkman has stated numerous times that this isn’t a show about killing zombies but about how humans react when they are in some kind of apocalypse. There will be some killings but that will not be the main focus. If you are looking for that then stick to the zombie movies. Being someone who reads the comics, I still think this show is doing great. The show isn’t meant to follow the Romero zombie movies and never will. It’s going to be more of a drama soapy series and that’s what people love about this series as pointed out in numerous articles, polls, surveys around the web.

      1. Prison will mostly likely last up until the midseason finale in which people who read the comics will know what happens. There were clues to where they are going next in episode 1
      2. The virus issue has a point and will play a huge role in the prison, the Governor, Rick, and the future as to where they go
      3. The voice on the radio plays a huge role and will be revealed most likely by midseason if not before.

      This episode was a set up for many things. They needed this to bring in the actual Tyreese character from the comics. He needed to go through this turmoil in order to reach that gym type of character. The supply run was needed because not only do they need medicine but it also leads to other things (voice on radio, new location, new characters, hunters?). The Carol issues also has some meaning in which it will mostly likely be revealed later on(emotional attachment).

      • Good analysis.
        I’m reading the comic book too and consider it a good adaptation too. The need of Tyreese to become the comic book character is a good point. But I don’t see the role of the flu?

        And contrary to the comic book Rick’s mental instability is too much centered. In the comic he’s never this weak, he always pulls himself together and keeps his leading role. As well as the group is much more focused as a team of special characters with core and changing roster. The comic book works because of this great characterisation as some kind of team book (similar to superhero team books). In season 4 Rick’s group seems vanished and he’s not really a leader.

  27. I agree about the fictional thing when people say it’s fictional..like that means u can just excuse terrible writing and producing..Also I think people are getting it confused when people like myself say more action..we are not talking about zombie attacks..we are talking about human reactions and interesting plots,and also a change of scenery..someone else mentioned I can’t remember who. But Glenn was a interesting character especially in season 1 WITH more strategic views..They gave him a girlfriend and now he is completely boring now all he wants to do is have sex in the watchtower..Which he isn’t doing a good job at that or he would see who was feeding the walkers…that’s another uninteresting plot too me…like thousands of walkers are going to come around fir a couple of rats ..likee the word on the street is up at the prison they giving out food

    • Everything you asked for is there just not to your satisfaction and sorry I respectfully disagree with your complaints. The character dynamics remain interesting, enthralling and real. Glen remains a great character and if one really understood what they have ALL been through it would be perfectly understandable that any one of them would like to shut off the reality of the situation and concentrate on the small pleasures when given the chance. You can gripe all you want but I’ll say it again: the majority of TWD viewers find it to be a quality program (and they aren’t stupid simply because you disagree with them as I don’t think you are stupid because I disagree with you). Also the major media critics also have overwelmingly rated the series as one of the best. So the fact is that you are part of the very grumpy, not so silent (not that there is anything wrong with that) minority.

      • How can you rate it one of the best in just 3 episodes the first half of season 3 was great…and I never put anyone down for there opinion..I just think some people cut off shows faster than other’s…Dramas in my opinion that were once great are hard to just cut of..not like comedy when shows are not funny to a person they can just cut it completely off very quickly..and just find another show that they find funny..But dramas are different u stick around for a while after they disappoint you in hopes It will come back home

        • It’s in it’s fourth season (and a critic’s favorite for most of it’s existence)….and yes you can rate it like this: so far this season The Walking Dead is one of the best shows on television!!! Common practice my friend. Hey it may suddenly start sucking (though I doubt it) at which time critics will say “what started out as a very promising season has deteriorated in quality etc”. Not so strange really.

          • It’s not like Alf the show isn’t commercials ..I think u need at least 5..it’s not like sins of anarchy that gives u plenty of minutes..I always say the first 2most likely are just to set things in place so u really have no idea how good the season will be..just if you like it so far…but to compare to a whole season is impossible so far…I must say the radio thing and the college could be interesting..long as they don’t dwell on this flu thing..I’m guessing the horde of zombies will draw them out the prison just hope it doesn’t take the whole season..what do you think?

            • No one is rating the whole season and I specifically said that in my last post…the positive reviews are for the season thus far. As i said, if it starts to suck (unlikely) the critics will change their tune accordingly. My critical analysis is based on the season so far. I have high hopes it points to ongoing good quality for the rest of the season. Simple! Period.

              • I rate it based on episodes into the season and I rate the season as a whole when it’s done. Right now 3 episodes into the season I would say it’s off to a good start. Yes, it has its issues but overall I consider it a huge improvement over S2/S3. The action is down from last year but I feel it’s because they are in a “calm” before the fire. I have been part of another site that has been ripping TWD apart since the start of S2. To see soo many people do a complete 180 and actually be excited as to where this show is heading is something great. I think a lot of people’s complaints from this Walking Dead comic book fan club was that the show was trying to make it too much into a Romero type of show(All action, no character development).

                • Ditto! Kinda what I was trying to explain to figures4eva but you reinforced it. Thanks. So far this season has shown lots of promise although I don’t agree with you about a lack of zombie action especially in episodes 1 & 2. The zombie swarm in episode 3 made up for any lack earlier in that episode.

    • Widely agree with the lack of action … and this doesn’t mean just walkers action. The characterisation and the “action” between characters is on a low now … I agree with Glenn and moreover it’s a problem of the whole group (which is diluted by Woodburry residents): Rick is in permanent mental instability and no leader anymore, Daryl is just the cool guy, but inside the prison he has no role than to look cool, Michonne got baby issues and (like Daryl) appears sometimes to talk with Rick, Hershel is the big mentor (he’s the only role that works well in the prison … like on a farm … he’s the Dale substitute), … Tyreese, Carol and Beth are characters with progress (too slow and vague) … and then there are Maggie and Glenn. Did I forget someone? However, they are not acting as a group in my opinion …

      • If you really paid attention like you claim you would see that each of the core characters are trying to settle into a new type of existence…Rick has brought them this far and is tired of shouldering the heavy load of leadership and is settling into contributing in other ways (fresh produce from his garden while reestablishing his role as dad to Carl and figure out his feelings regarding his baby….Glen and Maggie simply wanting to settle into being a couple with as much normalcy as the situation will allow…Michone continuing her quest to kill the governor while Daryl settles in as the prime protector and peacekeeper among the residents at the prison….Hershel attempts to be the voice of reason….Carol has emerged from timid victim to bold advocate of making sure the children are prepared to face the difficult decisions needed to survive in this landscape while Beth, despite becoming desensitized hangs onto her humanity by caring for Judith. The core group is in transition and it is vastly entertaining to see how they are struggling to interact with one another while realizing that none of them are the people they started out as. The “action” of the human drama, these human dynamics have never been more compelling and thrilling to watch (IMO).

        • why is my comment awaiting moderation?

  28. It was just officially announced that The Walking Dead has been renewed for season five. It is being called a ratings juggernaut as it not only is breaking cable program ratings but is also challenging the ratings of major network programming. The current showrunner will remain for the next season and they are developing a companion show that will feature different characters surviving through the same zombie apocalypse. I guess no one is feeling like there will be any waning of the show’s popularity any time soon.

    • I saw that this morning. It’s also rumored that a multi-year contract is being worked out for Gimple as well. Looks like the whole petition thing from TWD comic book fan club to keep Gimple is working out for the most part.

      • yeah, amc needs to stop fughing around with the show runners. at some point they need to leave their egos at the door, tuck their tails in, and thanks the tv gods things have worked well despite the micro managing. gimple seems to encompass what’s worked best. remember amc, more cardinals, red sox, spurs organizational trust and less Yankees, mets, nationals level micro managing.

        • Yeah, I agree. When Darabont left they lost some element of storytelling. Now with Gimple he is the closest thing to a Darabont type of storyteller(not surprising since he was a student of his). I think AMC also realized that if they don’t play ball the show will easily be picked up by another network that same day.

  29. All I can say is….stop killing off my favourite people!!!