Tim Burton Compares His ‘Batman’ Movies to Nolan’s; Kevin Feige Praises ‘The Dark Knight’

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Tim Burton and Christopher Nolan Batman Movies Tim Burton Compares His Batman Movies to Nolans; Kevin Feige Praises The Dark Knight

The Avengers might be the prettiest belle at the ball currently – only replace the words “prettiest” with “most talked about” and “belle at the ball” with “superhero movie” – but no one’s forgotten about The Dark Knight Rises, which just dropped a major league trailer and is only a couple of months out now.

Speaking of no one forgetting Batman, while promoting Dark Shadows, Tim Burton compared his contributions to the series (Batman, Batman Returns) to Christopher Nolan’s rebooted installments. Meanwhile, Marvel’s Kevin Feige called Nolan’s Batman films “the greatest thing that happened.” (Presumably to superhero movies.)

Courtesy of Cineplex Magazine, Burton compared the darkness of his take on Batman to Nolan’s:

“I always get told that my material is dark, but nowadays my version of ‘Batman’ looks like a lighthearted romp in comparison to Christopher Nolan’s ‘Dark Knight’.”

Since the release of Batman Begins and The Dark Knight, there have been a great many online discussions comparing Nolan’s Batman movies to Burton’s and vice versa. While it’s true that Batman ’89 and Returns are way over-the-top and even campy in their own way, it could also be said that Returns has some of the weirdest, creepiest imagery to ever appear in any Batman film.

Indeed, for every hilariously armed penguin army, there was black sludge pouring out of Danny Devito’s dying, sallow mouth, or a battered, bloodied, and nearly psychopathic Michelle Pfeiffer. Does that make Returns a darker film than the very serious, hyper-realistic Nolan films, especially TDK? No, not necessarily – but I think it puts them nearly neck-and-neck.

Batman Returns Penguin Black Sludge Tim Burton Compares His Batman Movies to Nolans; Kevin Feige Praises The Dark Knight

Speaking of Pfeiffer, Burton talked about her role as Catwoman way back when:

“For me, her version of Catwoman was one of my favourite performances on any movie I had worked on. I remember how she impressed me by letting a live bird fly out of her mouth, learning how to use a whip and dancing around on rooftops with high-heeled shoes on. She did all that stuff for real. I hadn’t really talked to her for about 20 years, and she called before I had started working on Dark Shadows, and she told me how much she loved the old TV series and she wanted to be involved.”

While Michelle Pfeiffer’s version of Catwoman didn’t much resemble her comic book counterpart – instead of just being a cat burglar with a flair for the feline, she had seemingly supernatural powers and was straight up creeptastic – it was a pretty well-received performance. It’ll be interesting to see if Anne Hathaway’s Catwoman can stack up, even if it is a more accurate representation of the comic book character.

Anne Hathaway Catwoman Tim Burton Compares His Batman Movies to Nolans; Kevin Feige Praises The Dark Knight

Elsewhere in the world, Kevin Feige talked about the decade-long box office reign of superhero movies and the part Christopher Nolan’s Batman films has played in the matter. Courtesy of Wired:

“[T]he truth is I root for every single [superhero movie], whether it’s our movies or not, because while you and I know the difference between who publishes what, I’ve been in supermarket checkout lines where one of our characters is on the cover of a magazine, somebody says, ‘Is Green Lantern in the Avengers? Is Aquaman in that one too?’ People don’t know. So I want them all to be great. […] Chris Nolan’s Batman is the greatest thing that happened because it bolstered everything. Imagine the one-two punch in 2008 of ‘Iron Man’ and ‘Dark Knight’? It was great. Six years earlier I was having conversations with studio execs where they’d say, ‘Why don’t you come work for us? These comic book movies can’t last forever. It’s probably towards the tail end.’ And I, being with big bright-eyed naiveté would go, ‘I don’t know, I think we can do more. I think there’s more fun to be had.’”

What’s the moral of this story, morning glories? Even when everyone and their grandmothers are talking about The Avengers (check out our own Kofi Outlaw’s review here), The Dark Knight Rises is still there, in the background, vying for cinematic dominance.

Only time will tell, though, if it can match Marvel’s superhero team-up in terms of box office take and critical reception. After all, The Avengers is already a success – well, pretty much – and it’s not even out in the U.S. yet.

The Avengers hits theaters May 4th, 2012, Dark Shadows hits theaters May 11th, and The Dark Knight Rises hits theaters July 18th.

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Follow me on Twitter @benandrewmoore.

Sources: Wired & Cineplex Magazine [via TDKR Facebook Fan Page & Comic Book Movie]

TAGS: batman, the dark knight rises

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  1. Am the first yes !, Anyway i love the dark knight better because it show batman as a real human, the classic batman movies where good, but they didn’t show batman for what he was. They just showed an awesome hero trying to save the day. On the other hand TDK shows challenges and decisions he had to make and how it affect individuals around him and technology used it TDK is just amazing.

  2. IMO Burton’s film were darker & borderline sadistic lol. Nolan’s are grounded.

    • LOL- exactly…

  3. This is what i find so strange about people sometimes. He was so impressed with her during filming of Batman Returns, yet it took her calling *him* for him to cast her again, when I’m sure there were so many roles in previous Burton films she would have been great in. I just find that strange. I get it if it was a Speilberg/Roberts relationship, but this was mutual affection…

    Anyways, I love them both. Glad to see them together again.

    • I’m guessing he never looked past his wife when it came to casting female leads.

  4. “hyper-realistic”?? It’ a super hero film…realism was left at the door on the way in?!

    • I think that with batman or any other hero with no actual super powers “hyper-realistic” is more plausible

  5. lol the image of kevin feige’s reaction to someone in the checkout line asking if GL is in the avengers….

  6. Why can’t I love both Nolan’s and Burton’s Batman films? I don’t see why it has to be mutually exclusive.

    • Andy, no one is saying that you can’t love both Nolan AND Burton’s versions of Batman, both were great in their own rights….. we’re saying that you can’t love Schumacher’s :-D

      • @ Ray

        I wouldn’t i say love it. Wouldn’t Batman Forever be somewhat a exception? Imo, Batman & Robin was the only bad Batman film.

        • Yeah Batman Forver was a level of weirdness all on its own level that needs to be appreciated for what it was. Especially if we’re giving Returns a pass. That movie was a mess. A beautiful mess.

          • I HATED Baman Returns! Batman Forever is the best of the old series IMO. (I haven’t seen Batman and Robin thank goodness.)

            • I think forever was the worst, there I said it. Returns was a mess though, why did Penguin and Catwoman even join forces? It made no sense.

              • @ Moog

                Penguin & Catwoman never really offically joined forces. It was only a temporily thing. As Catwoman let on that ticked off Penguin.

      • Amen to that. I still have nightmares about just how much neon people seem to where in Gotham.

      • 10 points to Ray.

  7. Tim Burton started it by making Batman gloomy and brooding in both “Batman” and “Batman Returns”. Christopher Nolan upped the ante and made his versions the ones that everyone (fanboys and mainstream audiences) wanted to see. Nolan’s version is the best interpretation of Batman in film.

    • Tim Burton made Batman gloomy and brooding. Christopher Nolan made him boring and preachy.

  8. Joel Schumacher ruined the Batman franchise and made Bats a joke and reverted him back to the 60′s Adam West TV show.

    • That’s kinda insulting to Adam West’s show. That show was at least funny. Schumacher’s films were just stupid.

    • Joel Schumacher is hishtory’s greatesht monster!

    • Though Schumacher takes blame for turning the series to crap. So that’s nice of him.

      • @ Ford Prefect

        While i blame Schumacher on his part for what he did to the franchise, i also partly blame Warner Bros. aswell for taken the franchise in the wrong direction in the first place.

  9. I LOVE both Burton and Nolans interpretation of Batman. I still say ‘Returns’ was brilliant. Im not sure if Penguin can be done any other way. And to me, the greatest thing that came out of Burton’s vision was his backdrop of Gotham. It was a character on its own, whereas Nolan didnt really give Gotham a personality, its just Chicago, or wherever it was filmed.Thats my only real criticism of Nolans Batman, was the lack of vision/personality on Gotham and the sometimes blah fight scenes with Batman. Am i wrong on that??

    • Nah, I can agree with that. I really liked the look of Batman Begins. TDK felt a little too Chicago some times, instead of its own city. The ariel shots of Gotham always looks nice.

      • Completely agree.
        And to add to the “blah fight scenes” comment: I just hope Nolan has a better stunt coordinator this time: For TDKR, I’d love to see more of those martial arts skills that were showcased/hinted at in BB.

        • throwing a batarang or two wouldn’t hurt either!

    • @ Tcupp13

      Till this day i still enjoyed Batman Returns & thought it was great. I too think there’s not a easy way to portray the Penguin to please everyone. I mean he could be like 60′s version only darker as Anne Hatheway looks in appearance in TDKR or creative like Burton’s version which Bruce Timm & Co. also used in Batman:TAS but stuck more the comics of-course. I agree about Burton’s Gotham City. It didn’t look safe even with Batman there & looked as if it would always be that way in Batman’s crusade. Of-course Schumacher changed that. Nolan’s Gotham City i thought looked good enough in Batman Begins, but not in TDK. Even though Batman was still rounding up thugs, Scarecrow, & lookin for Joker, still the city looked more peaceful day & night. Not to mention in TDKR how 8 years have past how Gotham seemed like it that finally got the peace it wanted. I have to agree with some of the fight scenes with Batman. So no, you have valid points imo.

    • Burton had the look of Gotham down better than Nolan, but Nolan really captures the despair and chaos of Gotham’s population better. Especially in BB when he really gave The Narrows and Crime Ally life. Both visions of the Batman unverse were fantastic IMO.

  10. I enjoy both Burton/Nolan’s Batman films on both director’s take of the characters based on the property. I enjoyed Burton’s films for being the first dark CBM films, till this day enjoyed Keaton’s performance as Batman as i did Nicolson’s performance as The Joker. The Batmobile in those two movies will always be my favorite aswell as the Batwing. Gotham City also looked great imo.

    In Batman Returns, i still enjoyed the film quite well & thought things people complained about are little exaggerated in today’s terms but understand why they felt the way they did back then. I personally liked Burton’s take on the Penguin. As Nolan stated, he is a complicated character to be on film & i liked how Burton made Penguin more Penguin-like instead of makin him lookin like the 60′s version. Even Bruce Timm & Co. used Burton’s take of the Penguin for Batman:TAS. Burton having Penuin enter public society by acting hero/running for mayor in the 2nd act of the film worked for me. Penguin w/rocket packs didn’t bother me really. Catwoman’s supernatural thingy bothers me little but Michelle Phieffer’s performance makes up for that big time.

    I enjoyed Batman Begins as a fresh take & great start to the reboot. Not to mention mention villains like Ra’s Al Ghoul, Scarecrow on the big screen. Loved Liam Neeson’s performance. It was nice to see Bruce travel the globe to fulfill his destiny. Gary Oldman was great as Commissioner Gordon aswell as Morgan Freeman. Christian Bale was great as Batman but it was voice that got to me, especially when his voice was worse in TDK. The Dark Knight while overhyped imo, was still a good film. Great performances by returning cast aswell by the late Heath Ledger as The Joker who i enjoyed as much as Nicolson’s. Aaron Eckhart was great as Harvey Dent/Two-Face, was much better than Tommy Lee Jones’s take even though im a fan of his. Was a shame though he won’t be coming back but just aswell as the TDKR is the last film. Not that it matters all that much to me, but imo i thought Katie Holmes was a better Rachel Dawes. Maggie was good too though.

    Not sure what to expect from TDKR, but know what id like to see in the next Batman reboot if it’s made.

    • I agree with pretty much everything you said.

      • Thanks.

    • Wallywest – I really think you need to see Batman Returns again. Penguin lacks any sort of rational depth. He runs for Congress inexplicably, bites an aide’s nose off with no provocation, and never tries to, in any actual way, integrate himself with society proper or act in a non-evil way. One note my friend, one note.

      • @ Evan

        I think it’s you that needs to watch it again, closely. Penguin shown rational depth. He did not run for congress, he ran for mayor of Gotham. He didn’t bite off the aides’s nose off, just bit on it. The aide did jokely insulted Penguin about his ( not much of reflection down in the sewers) comment which provoked Penguin of-course. Max Shreck helped him get into society properly within the 2nd act of the film & acted in a non-evil way infront of people in scenes where he’s clearly cleaned/dressed up nice till the point where Batman ruins things for him during his last speech in public with the recording he made earlier in the film of the Penguin’s voice.

  11. my favorite part in the first Burton Batman was when in the museum room at the beginning Alfred goes up to Bruce and says “They left VERY unexpectedly, sir.” Bruce walks one way and Alfred is like “THIS way, sir.” You guys noticed when Bruce earlier almost dropped that glass of champagne. That nigga was drunk! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    • hahahahaah i remember him almost dropping the glass.

    • I liked Knox & Vicky Vale in the newsroom

      Knox: Vale will you marry me?
      Vicky Vale: No.
      Knox: Will you buy me lunch?
      Vicky Vale: Maybe.
      Knox: I eat light.

      • dude, the 38th time I watched it I finally notice Knox says “If you want me to pose nude, you’re gonna need a long lense.” Oh my gosh that’s some funny stuff, man.

        • hahahahahaha Knox was fuggggin awesome. Loved him like I love Coulson in the Marvel movies.

          • Knox was the perfect comic relief in that movie. Everything he did was gold.

            • I agree.

          • @ Ignur Rant

            Yeah, i liked him also sayin Knox: theres a 6’0 Bat? In Gotham. And what’s he doin, reducing half the taxes!,lol. Doubt those were exact words but close i think.

            • Wally West

              Knox was shameless lmao

  12. So now people can stop this Marvel vs. DC stuff that always comes up. Having more of a preference for one isn’t bad but when it starts going into “this one is better” territory it just doesn’t make sense. At the end of the day these companies and their movies are what’s keeping interest in CBM’s. CBM’s ftw!

  13. I’ve always been fond of Burton’s Batman (and his take was great), but I dunno, I just think Nolan has done a better job overall (especially with the villains)
    I will say this though, when the trilogy ends this July, and they reboot the series in a few years, I hope they go a BIT more “far out” again. At this point, I think it’s been proven that a comic book movie can still be realistic and grounded, while still having all those fantastical elements that make the comics so much fun.

    As for Feige’s comment: that’s actually happened to me quite a lot (but I’m ashamed to say, it hits a lot closer to home ;)). Ever since my friends and family found out about the new Avengers and Batman films, everyone has been asking me (the nerd of the family) “So is Batman gonna be in The Avengers? I heard he was gonna be in The Avengers” and “Isn’t Hulk the villain for the new Batman movie? I know it’s some huge guy… Hulk is huge right?”
    While those questions burn my toast, it’s actually funny when you think about it: some of us fans go ballistic about these movies (“this one is going to be better!” “No, that one’s boring, this one will be better!”), but the general audience couldn’t give a damn. They’re just in it to enjoy some superhero goodness. I admire that (despite their ignorance ;)).

    P.S. Does anyone know when the new DKR poster hits?

    • I would have to agree with you about the future reboot. While Nolan’s Batmans are some of my favorite movies of all time, they limited themselves by being grounded in reality. I would love to see a new Batman franchise that retains the darker tone of the Nolanverse, but was willing to go out on a limb a bit and include some fan faves from the Rogues Gallery that aren’t quite as grounded in reality. If DC is going to try the shared universe that Marvel has had so much success with, they are gonna have to open Batman up a little bit.
      What I would really like to see though, is a serious Batman movie that has Batman in the comic Batsuit(blue and grey/black). The way the Man of Steel costume, and most of the new 52 designs turned out, it seems like undies on the outside is becoming a thing of the past. :)

  14. I will always hold Burton’s Batman films in high regard.
    Keaton was a great choice to play Batman and more importantly Bruce Wayne. The general public thought that a big action star like Sly or Arnold should be cast but they were just thinking about Batman not Bruce. So when Keaton was cast people were scratching their heads saying he didn’t seem like the Superhero type.
    And what can I say about Michelle Pfeiffer?
    16yr old Kevin loved her and so does 37yr old Kevin. ;)
    That costume, Wow!!
    That whip, Wow!!!

  15. Best part for me of The Dark Knight was after Alfred says “Some men just want to watch the world burn.”, that shot of Batman on the skyscraper did it for me. That eerie feedback noise sounded like it was taken directly from 30 Days of Night. Which is aesthetically AWESOME.

  16. Screw all of them Adam West Batman movie rules!!!
    He is not the dark knight but a bright knight!!!
    He flirts and seduces women,he sings,he dances and drinks orange juice at the bar!!!
    He fights sharks with bare hands in mid air and battles multiple villains at a time!!!
    He is a true batman and not the burton-man and batnolan.
    tanananananananananana BATMAN!!!!!!!!

    • And don’t forget, he always reminds kids to look both ways before crossing the street. His not-so-veiled Public Service (Safety) Announcements always crack me up.

  17. Pretty much a sign of the times. There’s better film making techniques today than there were in the late 80′s/early 90′s so naturally Nolan’s films are more dynamic and look better…as would be the case for the genre in general. I happen to think the story lines in the Nolan versions are little more compelling. That doesn’t take away from the Burton franchise…where one can argue features more established actors.

    • More established that Christian Bale, Liam Neeson, Michael Caine, Morgan Freeman, Tom Wilkinson, Anne Hathaway, and Gary Oldman?

      • *than

      • If I have to list anyone past Jack Nicholson…I guess I can list Christopher Walken, Michelle Phifer, Danny De Vito, Billy Dee Williams, Kim Bassinger and I’m sure I’m forgetting a few. And I’m not saying one is more A-list than the other. All I’m saying is that a case can be made for the Burton franchise.

        • I’m not trying to say there weren’t any stars in Burton’s series, just that I really don’t think the cast is a point that can be used to contrast them with Nolan’s. Nolan’s Batman films are hardly filled with unknowns.

          • I’m just giving the benefit of the doubt to Burton’s film’s. I think Nolan’s films are better in nearly every way…but I would say that about Nolan as a film maker in general. He’s my favorite director making films today. And yes, his films casts some well established, veteran actors…That said, we have to concede that Nolan’s Batman franchise is as responsible for some of these actors notoriety and is as responsible for their A-list stature than anything else they’ve done. Tom Hardy’s a good example. Yes, he is fairly well known right now….but wait until TDKR opens. He’s going to be as A-list as anyone else. Ledger has a helluva resume…but his signature role is TDK.

            Jack Nicholson didn’t need Batman as much as batman needed him. Christopher Walken already won an Oscar. The name recognition of the actors were just as important for Burton’s films…For many of Nolan’s characters the reverse is the case.

  18. Keaton was a better Batman
    Would love to see him as Nolanverse Dark Knight Returns

  19. You can now discard Burton’s movies, I don’t see how Returns and TDK are neck and neck either.
    Returns was so awful and campy that I can’t stop laughing at it’s silliness !

  20. If we’re going to talk about which Batman films were good or not, I will say that the only one I’d lable as bad was BATMAN & ROBIN. And even Schumacher has admitted that. Come on guys, would you just let it go. It just seems petulant at this time to call Schummacher the spawn of Satan. Are we all just deciding to forget that he has made some good movies like THE LOST BOYS, FALLING DOWN, TIGERLAND, and PHONE BOOTH? (And also in my opinion BATMAN FOREVER was at least decent) Heck, we can forgive Burton for that atrocious PLANET OF THE APES remake back in 2001 but not him?

    Anyway when it comes to comparing the Batman films as I said earlier the only one I think is bad (though admittedly hilariously so in my opinion) is BATMAN & ROBIN. Despite some changes I think BATMAN 89 is still a great interpretation of Batman. RETURNS is a fantatastic Tim Burton movie, but I could not really say it’s great as a Batman film. FOREVER I find to be very underrated.

    • I personally didn’t bring up the Schumacher films because after reading through the actual article and the conversation to follow it didn’t seem like they were part of the part of this particular discussion.

      But considering all of the Batman films (dating back to 66) I’d say Schumacher’s films were my least favorite.

    • @ Jack

      I agree heartly with ya on that about Batman & Robin being the worst. Unlike most people who solely blame him for the two films he directed, i partly put some of the blame on WARNER BROS. themselves for taking the franchise into more (family-friendly) direction in the first place. Im not defending Schumacher because we know what he’s guilty of on his part. But i agree to leave his Bat-films in the past. He’s done & won’t be makin anymore Bat-films. He’s made good films & bad films any other director has in their careers. I agree Batman Forever was decent but that’s it. That’s what i kinda liked about that franchise btw, the sequels didn’t look as direct sequels. They had minor referances between the two Burton films & the two Schumacher films.

  21. Okay there are things that maybe compare Tim Burton’s Batman movies to Nolan’s:

    Were the first two original movies back in the 80′s anD 90′S were great? Yes.

    Were two movies violent? Yes.

    Were there some great villains? Joker and maybe Peguin.

    Tim Burton can compare his movies to Nolan’s movies but can’t compare his own movie version of Planet To The Apes towards Rupert Wyatt’s Rise Of The Planet Of The Apes.

    Wyatt destory Burton’s version and showed how the film is done.

    I expected the worst but instead the film was way better than I expected.

    I hope the sequel is way better than the first ROTPOTA movie.

  22. Man, Burton’s Batman films were the worst outside of acting and set design. Incredibly campy, nonsensical, an awful portrayal of Batman as a willing and able killer (he mows down or blows up dozens of people) and the films are on par with Adam West in regards to campiness. The only thing “dark” about them were the set designs. Burton had an inkling of where Batman could be as a film hero, but Nolan actually executed on the concept.

    Best live-action Batman films:
    Dark Knight
    Begins
    Adam West Batman
    Batman 89
    Batman Forever
    Batman Returns
    Batman and Robin.

    • I don’t know how old you are Evan but when Burton’s Batman came out it was as big a contrast to the then current movies in the genre as Nolan’s BB was when it came out. You can’t dismiss what 23 years of innovation in film, photography, lighting, CGI has done to improve the look, feel, mood and tone of a movie.

      • Hi Ink, I was 6 when Burton’s Batman film came out and about 8 for the second. I surely remember the impact they had, and from a historical standpoint, I agree that Burton’s Batfilms were hugely important to the superhero genre.

        That said, importance does not = a good film. I really appreciate The Birth of a Nation, but its themes and reverence for the KKK disgust me. While Tron was a pioneer for CGI, its story is week and with the fx now outdated, it really doesn’t hold up (compared to say, Terminator 2 or John Carpenter’s the Thing whose effects and story are still relevant and seminal).

        At the end of the day, Burton indulged in a cheesefest that is much closer to the West/Schumacher visions of Batman. The films have not aged well, and I don’t see how anyone can hold them up as the quintessential Batman films unlike the Christopher Reeves Superman still being the quintessential Supes films.

      • Hey, what the heck are you doing here INK?! You swore you were going to stay away until you had seen Avengers.

  23. To me , Burton’s films were immensely entertaining, even now they are still so watchable.

    What people have to remember is that at time of release Burton’s films were regarded as dark, and gritty. 1989′s Batman was the perfect film at the right time and was so influential in the style that comic book movies were made in the early 90s. Nicholson was great as the Joker – at the time was considered just as much a central stage performance as Ledger’s version (To me Nicholson was a lot funnier – but just my humble opinion)

    Keaton was almost exceptional in the role. His Wayne is more assured and carries more mysticism about him. Remember he had far less material to work with than Bale had for Batman Begins. Of course Keaton nailed it as Batman and only a lack of physicality separates him and Bale in comparison for the role.

    For me Batman Returns is possibly the best comic book sequel ever. Easily a couple of notches above the 1st film, a lot more twisted and complex. People see camp and cheesiness, but I see elaborate imagination and vision. It indeed has the more mature, serious tone of Nolan’s films, but also that gothic fantasy that I think any Batman movie needs. Danny DeVito rules as the Penguin and Pfeffier’s Catwoman will forever remain the ultimate screen version of the character. Hathaway can do what she likes, but it simply will not hold up in comparison.

    I know many today will either be too young or too caught up in Nolan worship to appreciate Burton’s movies, so I recommend to buy them on DVD / Blu Ray. In may ways they are just as impressive as Nolan’s films are, trust me.

    • I’m 17 and I can appreciate what Burton’s Batman movies did to the franchise (and the industry as a matter of fact). Most of my buds also enjoyed his Batman movies, immensely.
      But I do see where you’re coming from. A lot of people my age (and younger) are very alienated from older movies. Most people my age (that I’ve met) have never even seen Star Wars and Indiana Jones because they think the characters and effects are too “campy” and “old fashioned”. Of course, they just can’t understand that those movies were made in a different time, and that just because it’s “old” doesn’t mean it’s not worth watching.
      I for think it’s a great shame that they’re so ignorant and close-minded when it comes to cinema… but hey, what can you do?

      • For what it’s worth, the 1966 Batman is a pretty darn good comedy. The dialog is pretty funny.

      • I have a teacher who only watches films with loads of CGI and i tried persuading him to watch Forbidden Planet. I don’t think he did though. His loss. The original Star Wars and Indiana Jones (actually most movies from that time period) I find more enjoyable. They aren’t full of empty CG effects (curse you Indy 4) and are brimming with imagination and entertainment. I really think you should slap those people.

      • I’m 17 too, and I agree.

      • @Avenger

        Great points of which I agree. Just because a film was released 10-20 years ago doesn’t mean that it can’t be compared to the films that come out today. The countless remakes, reboots, sequels that we get today – only confirms ever further how great movies were back in the 70s and 80s

        I appreciate the impact achieved by Nolan’s Batman movies and that they are relevant for the current time. For all their success , I just don’t think that Burton’s films should be so easily dismissed.

        What fans of Nolan’s Batman need to realise is that the character will be rebooted within 5 – 10 years time. Does that mean then that Nolan’s films will eventually become dated and out of touch??

        Just something to think about.

        • What fans of Burton’s Batman series need to do is rewatch the films. Once again, were they important for movie history? Absolutely. Are they dated in an unenjoyable way (as opposed to Batman 66 with enjoyable dated)? Yes. Michael Keaton sleeps upside down. Joker does graffiti in an art museum whilst dancing to Prince (it doesn’t get much more late 80s/early 90s than that), before shooting down the Batplane with a handgun. Batman Returns features rocket penguins and a carnival abducting children on some sort of crazy train. The fact is, all of that is incredibly campy. There are still great aspects of the film – notably the acting (Keaton is still the best live-action Batman) and style – but they dont hold thematic candles or have the depth of character understanding that the Nolan ones do.

          • Yeah, rocket penguins and crazy trains are stupid. Guys who dress up like bats would never have to deal with that in real life. That’s the kind of crazy stuff you’d see in a comic book or something.

            Hey, wait a minute…..

            • @Gene

              I have nothing against crazy trains and rocket penguins as a general matter. My issue is that they are included in a film that people claim to be a “dark” non-campy, serious take on the villain. My point is, how can Burton’s Bat-films be considered thematically or tonally similar with Nolan’s films when they include such outrageous shenanigans? Rocket Penguins, batarang catching dogs, giant barrelled hand guns that can take down a fighter jet without dislocating the shooter’s arm, evil parade balloons, Bruce Wayne sleeping upside downn like a bat . . . . All of this belongs in the Adam West/Schumacher universe, not the serious/dark/realistic/choose your adjective that Nolan brought to the screen.

              My point is that I really don’t have much issue with goofy things like rocket penguins – by their nature comic books involve outrageous things. Even the Nolan films involve microwave emitters. The difference is, films like Avengers, X-Men, Iron Man and the Nolan Bat films integrate this goofiness in a pseudo-realistic world (not a comic world), where as films like Fantastic Four, Burton’s Batfilms and even the phenomenal Reeves Superman films essentially operate in a campy cartoon world. I am not saying one world is better than the other (the Raimi Spider films are based much more in cartooniness than realism, and the first two are just as good as the Nolan Bat films and my personal favorite super hero opuses). What bugs me though, is that people give Burton credit for creating a realism-based film simply because he utilized a dark set design, when in fact, his Bat-films were just as goofy and non-realistic based as the Schumacher ones (Schumacher was just more up front about what he was doing though).

              • Respectfully, you may be responding to my comment here, but you’re also responding to a bunch of things that I never said.

                First of all, “camp” is in the eye of the beholder. I think Adam West’s version was definitely camp. I don’t think Schumacher’s “Batman & Robin” was meant to be campy. I think it just stunk, and the more polite members of the audience have tried to give him the benefit of the doubt and call it camp. Camp is generally meant to be funny. I think Burton set out to be fun – not funny. There’s a difference.

                Second, I don’t consider Burton’s films to be tonally or thematically similar to Nolan’s. Again, I think Burton’s films are fun. I think Nolan’s films, for the most part, have been (apart from Ledger) preachy, slow-moving, and way too earnest. Batman isn’t “Serpico”. He’s a guy running around in a bat costume and driving a tank. I can’t take that very seriously, no matter how hard the director tries. And I don’t want to. I have a real life. Don’t need to pay money to see real life in a theater.

                Third, I can’t think of any movie Burton has done, with the exception of “Ed Wood”, that anyone could POSSIBLY call a “realism-based film”. I’m pretty sure the point of his entire style is to avoid realism. Everything he does is exaggerated and unique.

                Burton’s take on Batman was considered dark because, at the time, it was. Look at what you had to compare it to at the time: Christopher Reeve’s Superman; Lynda Carter’s Wonder Woman; Adam West’s Batman; Nicholas Hammond’s Spider-man. The only superhero show with any sort of seriousness to it was Bill Bixby’s (and Lou Ferrigno’s) Hulk. Burton’s Batman was dark because Keaton played Batman as a bit disturbed, as opposed to a big boy scout; because Burton’s villains actually killed people, instead of just menacing them; and because, despite the comic book plot devices, the dialogue was actually adult friendly, rather than aimed squarely at kids (or, in the case of Reeves, gleeful nostalgia).

                But Burton kept it grounded in the comics. This felt more like a comic book movie (to me, anyway) than maybe any other film except Beatty’s “Dick Tracy”. Nolan – and again, this is just my opinion – tries too hard to have the subject be taken seriously. His movies just aren’t fun for me. I don’t care if the toys and the villains seem feasible in real life. I don’t want to hear fifteen speeches about how Gotham needs a “white knight”. I don’t want him to work so hard for (seemingly) four hours, trying to make me take a cartoon character seriously, then slap me with a ridiculously cheesy lecture about how he’s “not the hero we want, but he’s the hero we need” for my troubles. Please don’t do that.

                I like comic books, or at least, I like my memories of them. I’m not ashamed to have liked them. I’m not ashamed to want my movies about comic book characters to feel like comic books. When Nolan fans see his movies and rave about how realistic and serious they are, they seem so proud that he’s taking the form “seriously”. For some reason, when I see Nolan’s movies, I just wonder why he doesn’t seem to get the point of a comic book. It seems to me that many of the fans who swear by Nolan as if he’s made the only valid superhero movies are the film fan equivalents of the comic book fans who insist on referring to them as “graphic novels”.

                As I sat in the theater the other night, impatiently waiting for the endless previews to end so I could watch “The Avengers”, one of the last previews started with the famous Warner Bros. and DC logos, and I had a few seconds of excitement because I knew Batman was coming! Moments into the preview, my mind had wandered back to “The Avengers”. That’s when I realized that Nolan had finally stolen Batman away from me, maybe for good. I’m glad Marvel was there to take his place. And I hope the future writers and directors take a hint from Whedon (and Burton, and Donner), and worry less about convincing the audience why this could really work – because we all know it can’t – and focus instead on giving us great characters, believable effects, and a fun ride.

                • +1

                • Well played Gene. As I said, I have no problem with super hero comics being based in a comic world (as a huge Raimi Spider-Man fan, that is readily apparent). That being said, I 100% agree with you that Burton made a comic book movie taking place in a comic book universe. You are right that I was generally responding to people on this board who claim that Batman is a dark and serious take on the character, when it isn’t. There is no conceivable way to construe Burton’s Batman films of being a “dark and pseudo-realistic” approach like Kick Ass, Nolan’s Bat-films, and Iron-Man for example.

                  But, I definitely understand your logic and reasoning Gene, I just feel though that too many people give Burton’s films way too much credit for doing something they didn’t do – aka – bring some realism into the comic book genre? Was it the first major super hero film to be geared towards a mature audience? Sure. But is it over-the-top in its cartoonishness? Also yes. There isn’t necessarily anything wrong with that (with Scott pilgrim being possibly my favorite comic book movie ever, I have a huge tolerance for and enjoyment of camp/cartoonishness), but it just makes me aghast when multiple people on this board act like Burton’s Batman films were in any way a serious take on the genre.

                • Also, just noting, the reason Im worked up about it is the headline of the article is Burton compares his films to Nolan’s. Poppycock!

                  • I can see your point. If there’s anyone out there that seriously thinks Tim Burton’s movies are realistic, then I want to go visit that person – because his world is clearly more entertaining than mine is! The reason I like Burton so much is because the worlds he creates are so odd.

                    I wouldn’t get too worked up about the headline to the article. It just says that Burton compares his version of Batman to Nolan’s – which he does. It doesn’t say Burton compares his version of Batman FAVORABLY to Nolan’s – which he doesn’t. In fact, it sounds like he’s backing you up. His quote basically says “People say MY movies are dark. Have you seen Nolan’s??” Tim Burton does what he does, and does it better than probably anyone else. I don’t get the impression that he’s too worried about comparisons with other directors. The only other director that I think is even in his stylistic neighborhood might be Terry Gilliam. (Who, by the way, I would nominate for “Dr. Strange”, should that ever happen.)

              • +1

        • @ lebsta

          Regarding your last paragraph & sentance. Ive said the something of the samething of how Nolan’s Bat-films years later will most likely be remembered as Burton’s films are now.

          • Wallwest,

            The probplem with you is that you are relying ONLY upon ‘Hope about the uncertain future’ as an argument:”…that I hope Nolan’s series will be considered as Campy as Burton’s are considered today…20 years from now”

            But the fact is …Nolan’s Bat will be considered campy …20 or even …three years from now…ONLY IF it’s really campy. But unfortunately for you, Nolan’s bat is not Campy at all…UNlike Burton’s Bat and like the Classic ‘Citizen Kane (1941)’.
            Sorry, better luck, next time…say about in…40 years or so.

            • smh+facepalm

            • @Amol Nolan Batman will be known as being “full of plot holes” and actually for being unrealistic. People 20 years from now will say ” people really thought this was realistic” and laugh at this generation. By the way I do love the Nolan films, but they are unrealistic just as Burton batman was unrealistic. The difference Burton never claimed realism.

            • Here when a movie becomes comical when it tries to hard to make itself serious. Open link for Nolan’s plot holes revealed http://movieplotholes.com/the-dark-knight-rises.html

    • Do not trust Lebsta and do not buy these films on DVD/Blu Ray. As someone who is neither too-young or overly Nolan worshipful (though he did direct my all-time favorite film Memento), I can guarantee that the Burton films don’t hold a candle to not only the Nolan films, but also things like Mask of the Phantasm or the Batman Beyond or the Adam West Batman films.

      • That’s only your opinion mate…
        I like Nolan’s Batman movie more than Burton’s, but you can’t really say “one is better than the other” – it’s purely opinion based.

      • @ Evan

        No offense, but you do seem overly Nolan worshipful with the way you speak highly of Nolan’s Bat-films but disregard pretty much all past incarnations of Batman. Whether it’s live-action films like Burton’s films & 60′s show. Or animation like Mask Of The Phantasm & Batman Beyond.

        • @Avenger – that is untrue. When one says they like one movie better, that is an opinion, but movies also have objective standards. There is no doubt that the newer Bat films are better than West era Batman films in that they are objectively better plotted, better art design, better action choreography, more talented actors, etc. For example, I am not that big a fan of Citizen Kane (opinion), but it is a marvel of narrative and film techniques (objective facts). I don’t think that the Burton films are “better” per se, but lebsta gave his opionion that we should buy the Blu-ray Burton films cuz they are great, I gave my countervailing opinion that they are not that good and shouldn’t be bought. Neither opinion is less valid than the other.

          @WallyWest – I certainly don’t like being told off by the superior Flash! Anyways, I think you may have misread my statement, I said that the Burton films dont EVEN compare to the phenomenal Phantasm or (in its own way)the 66 West film (or even, frankly, the awesome Batman Beyond movie). I would put all those up against the Nolan films before the Burton ones. Up above I also listed the West Batman as my third favorite Bat-film, and the 89 Batman above any of the Schumacher films.

          For the record too, I think Dark Knight is a bit overrated (though still amazing). The scene with the ships needing to choose to blow up the other ships is beyond ludicrous, as is the scene with his Batmobile morphing into Batcycle.

          But, I am not ashamed to say I am a huge Nolan fan. Memento is my all-time favorite movie, and I do believe he is one of the top-5 directors working today, and I thank him for actually bringing us original material in Inception.

          • @Evan

            I agree with some of your points about the equality of people’s opinion and the ships’ scene in The Dark Knight. The sonar sequence was also messily handled.

            I’m sure about the Nolan’s films having better art design or more densley plotted. As I said before Batman Returns is stunning in terms of its imagery and has as much a creative edge – probably even more so – than Nolan’s films. I’ve never quite seen the exceptional cinematography that is so often talked about the Dark Knight.

            And as for better actors? again that’s being too easily dismissive. Yes, the acting ensemble is top notch in Nolan’s films, but Jack Nicholson, Jack Palance, Billy De Willams, Kim Basinger in 1989. Pfeffier, De Vito in Returns. Every bit as talented and famous as the cast in Nolan’s films.

            Oh and almost without mentioning Christopher Walken – who is simply legendary, way above most of the actors in Nolans’ films, Caine and Freeman excluded of course

      • Burtons Batman movies had an actual Gotham City and a Better Batman. Batman & Robin and TDK are the only two Batman movies i cant watch because i will fall asleep during them.

    • @lebsta
      brilliantly said sir!

  24. I do sometimes have trouble watching old movie. But some of my favorite movies are old (the godfather, first 3 star wars, aliens, and indiana jones) but I do sometimes enjoy some of the classics less (e.t, jaws ect) cause I’ve seen what technology can do now.

  25. I used to quite like the Tim Burton Batman films but i tried watching it lately and felt quite embarrassed so i turned it off. Michael Keaton is the best batman after Christian Bale. Actually these two probably are the only two actors i like as Batman.

  26. the most realistic super hero movie is Super, with Kevin Bacon and Rainn Wilson

    • What about kick ass haha

  27. I love or rather really like and enjoy both Chris Nolan as well as Tim Burton’s Batman movies. However, since there movie strengths is such an easy topic to discuss, in which I have been a part of countless times, I will instead point out their weaknesses: 1989 Batman was the Bomb point blank NOW on to the next ones
    Batman Returns: They downgraded on the batsuit, making it look more angular and drawn out and less organic, Batman Returns Fight scene coordinator has nothing on 1989′s fight coordinator, After Hollywood saw how fans reacted to Tim Burton’s 1989 classic Batman film, they told Tim to scrap the idea of catering to only 1989′s movie fan base which was already selling out their Bat endorsements and instead cater to the kids because they were hoping that a whole family in general coming to the movies apposed to just 18years and up would bring in more money, However what they didn’t anticipate on was that while Batman Returns was a great movie for what it was it had all the more potential to be even better had they not strayed away from what worked in the 1989 Batman movie to begin with Batman has traveled the world studying martial arts and that character depth is there in 1989′s Batman. When I saw Batman fighting the circus in Batman Returns it felt rushed, illogical and even like a Broadway film with a cheap one street corner set and I felt embarrassed just watching Batman Forever because the tone of it was brought way down to the level of a 5 year old younger sibling in which they couldn’t relate because it was 1989′s Batman trilogy so who was gonna follow that movie at 5 word for word with all the adult like themes init

    Batman & Robin: Isn’t good enough for me to waste time on in a debate nor discussion unless for humorous purposes

    Batman Begins: Was brilliant up until the part that Batman says:
    Christian Bale: I’m Batman…Nice Coat
    The Batman Begin’s fight scenes got worse as the movie progressed on and all the way up into The Dark Knight Rises wear I am built up to see all Bruce Wayne’s training from Batman Begin’s pay off only to be disappointed had it not been for The Great performance of The Great Heath Ledger

    You don’t down grade on your fight choreography because there is still realism in any human being whom traveled the world learning martial arts KICKING someones ass, not struggling with there opponent as if they were you or me out there dressed in the batsuit but punching and kicking ass as if it were Michael Keaton himself in that leathery black batsuit

    Nolan and Burton Direct The Dark Knight Returns staring Michael Keaton or Clint Eastwood and get Frank Miller involved on the set as executive director

  28. “While Michelle Pfeiffer’s version of Catwoman didn’t much resemble her comic book counterpart – instead of just being a cat burglar with a flair for the feline, she had seemingly supernatural powers and was straight up creeptastic – it was a pretty well-received performance. It’ll be interesting to see if Anne Hathaway’s Catwoman can stack up, even if it is a more accurate representation of the comic book character.”

    Are you serious about this? From what we know of the Nolan Catwoman, about ALL that matches the original character is her being a thief. Last time I looked also she never carried a gun.

    Pfeiffer’s version on the other hand had the right costume (check), used the iconic whip (check), had claws (check), was a thief (check) and affinity for cats (check). So I’m not seeing how she, “didn’t much resemble her comic book counterpart”, especially when compared with this new version.

    • Are YOU serious? Pfeiffer’s Catwoman may of had the look but she was far from anything like her comic counterpart. She was Burton’s twisted gothic vision. Not to say it wasn’t entertaining & awesome to see Pfeiffer in skin tight latex.

      Everything shown so far, gives the impression that Catwoman is at heart, closer to her comic book counter part. You should take a day off from trollin lol please&thank you

      • how is he trollin? he made some good points about pfeifers’s catwoman. you didn’t really say how she’s different, nor how you are able to ascertain, based on 2 or 3 lines of dialoge, and 1 shot of a round house kick, that hathaway is more like the CB version of catwoman. all you did was say “are YOU serious? quit trollin”. at least attempt to make your case.

        • @Jeffro

          My case wasmade in my first paragraph but illelaborate if you need me to. He clearly implied that Pfeiffer’s was like her comicbook counter part. Apart from her look, she is nothing at all like the Selina from the comics. Anybody who has ever picked up a comic, watched Batman TAS or read wikipedia knows that.

          so far everything shown of Nolan’s Catwoman looks to be much more like her comic book counterpart. She is a thief, she is playing both sides of the law and has an outfit that is a combination of her 1960s apperance & her purple 80s outfit.

          • Did I EVER say the Burton version was a perfect match? NO. I also didn’t “imply” anything, I was commenting on the fact that the article claims she, “didn’t much resemble her comic book counterpart” which I proved was patently false. That’s why I actually quoted the part of the article I was commenting on so I thought it would be clear.

            Here, lemme make it more clear for you.

            re·sem·ble/riˈzembəl/
            Verb:
            Have qualities or features, esp. those of appearance, in common with (someone or something); look or seem like.

            So while I agree she might not have behaved much like the comic version much, I was obviously directing my post at her APPEARANCE (hence all of my listed physical traits)

            Note that the Nolan version will ALSO be taking a lot of liberties and not be showing the Selena Kyle version from the comics. So if I was picking which of the two was closer it would be the Burton version.

            • Sooooooo we agree that resemblance has to do with looks and personality. Meaning the statement “[Burton's Catwoman] didn’t much resemble her comic book counterpart” is still holds truth.

              Nolan’s Catwoman physicaly resembles her comicbook counterpart mixed with the 60s show design. Since Nolan’s & Burton’s both physically resemble their comicbook counterparts, the next aspect of resemble left to analyze is their personality. Burton’s was his own vision and you could aee that in the original trailers. Nolan’s already looks to be closer to the comics than Burtons.

              • Not really since we have yet to see what her personality is like in TDKR. The trailers have shown virtually nothing and pictures really can’t show personality traits.

                That leaves us with appearance only to compare and contrast and I don’t consider a pair of small cat ears to be enough to qualify and looking like Catwoman. Take that small nod away and she looks like any other cliche Hollywood thief type. No full face mask, no claws, no whip and sporting a gun are all things that work against her. (and the 60′s version DID have claws and a whip ;)

  29. To me Burtons Batman is gothic while Nolans Batman is more crime drama. You can see it in the architecture of Gotham its self. Burton is all gargoyles and cathedrals while Nolan is modern office buildings.

    • I agree sir.

      What would you call Schumaer’s? Greek Neon? lol

      • Good one Ignur. I do have to say though that I think Schumacher’s sets/design were just as interesting and inventive as Burton’s – but the acting/stories – not so much.

      • Las Vegas tacky? I just can’t imagine what was going through his mind when he chose that gaudy motif. Did he confuse Batman with Elvis or what?

        • I know Schamuer(sp) envisioned Batman & Robin as greek pantheons. Kinda why he had the Batman suit so sculpted.

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