The Punisher 2: Why?

Published 9 years ago by , Updated February 9th, 2012 at 9:02 pm,

the punisher The Punisher 2: Why?I’m really confused… it’s being reported all over the place (initially at IESB) that Thomas Jane (who played the title role in the first movie) stated that the script for Punisher 2 is being written and production will start in a couple of months.

Uh… why?

I haven’t been able to find sales number for the DVD, but according to Box Office Mojo The Punisher pretty much just managed to break even world-wide. The first one was pretty much universally slammed by the critics (including me) and movie viewers (if the box office numbers mean anything), and didn’t bring much of a profit. As far as the comic book fan base, it didn’t make that group happy either.

All I’ve heard so far as that the next one will take place in New York City, which is where the first one should have taken place.

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  1. Check this out….

    “The Punisher sequel script is currently being worked on and they expect production to start in two months. Location wise it looks like Tampa is out and New York is in” said actor Thomas Jane to the IESB.

    From DarkHorizons.com

    Ya, I agree….is there really…REALLY a point to this?

    DarrOn

  2. I have to wonder if Travolta’s involvement in the first one had any influence on the making of the sequel. Of course, not even Travolta could sweet-talk the suits into making a sequel to Battlefield Earth.

    Brian

  3. I doubt Travolta had anything to due with the second one since his character doesn’t survive the first one. :shock:

    Vic

  4. “I’m really confused…the script for Punisher 2 is being written and production will start in a couple of months. Uh… why?”

    Probably because the movie exploded on dvd, outselling PG-13 movies like Hellboy by a margin of 4 to 1. Punisher sold 2 million dvds its first week and raked in 40 million of rentals.

    “The first one was pretty much universally slammed by the critics (including me)…”

    With all due respect, do you consider yourself on the same level as critics at the LA Times, Washington Post, Rolling Stone, San Francisco Chronicle, and USA Today? They all gave Punisher excellent reviews.

    “movie viewers (if the box office numbers mean anything), and didn’t bring much of a profit.”

    Punisher made a profit despite opening against Kill Bill 2 (which had nothing to do with Punisher’s low boxoffice I’m sure :roll: ).

    “As far as the comic book fan base, it didn’t make that group happy either.”

    According to what? The two biggest Punisher fan sites, thepunisher.com and punisher-art.com liked the movie. Friends I met at ComiCon liked the movie. On most comic boards I visit (including superherohype) people like the movie. Check your facts before you decide to speak for the comic book fan base.

    “All I’ve heard so far as that the next one will take place in New York City, which is where the first one should have taken place.”

    The movie was based on the origin story of Frank Castle chronicled in the “Year One” series. The villain from that series – like Travolta in the movie – is a money launderer who lives in Florida. Most Punisher fans know that.

    Hope that clears up your confusion.

  5. Thanks for setting me straight. :roll:

    DVD sales: Where even the worst movie on the planet can turn a profit.

    Vic

  6. Punisher turned a profit before dvd. According to boxofficemojo it was produced for 33 million and made 55 in worldwide boxoffice.

  7. Don’t forget to add in the 20 million in marketing costs. That makes the total price tag 53 million.

    Vic

  8. Hellboy only made 2 million more profit than Punisher. That’s pretty weak considering it was PG-13, opened in more theaters, didn’t compete against Kill Bill, and spent more on advertising. I’ve never heard anybody complain about Hellboy’s poor numbers, so why complain about Punisher’s? If you factor in marketing costs very few movies make a huge profit before dvd. :wink:

  9. That’s a good point (about movie profit). However, Hellboy was a heck of a lot better movie than Punisher.

    If you want me to back up my slam on this flick, read my review of The Punisher. 8)

    Vic

  10. Hellboy was a heck of a lot better movie than Punisher.

    Then why wasn’t Hellboy’s boxoffice a heck of a lot better? Above you said audiences slammed the Punisher “if boxoffice means anything.” Why doesn’t this same logic apply to Hellboy? You’re using boxoffice to support your argument only when it suits you.

    If you want me to back up my slam on this flick, read my review of The Punisher

    Hmm. Let’s take a look:

    Frank, it turns out, is going to retire from the FBI at the ripe old age of about 35. Why, we have no idea… he’s a squeaky clean kind of guy so there’s no possibility he’s been skimming cash from drug busts. Maybe he became an agent at age 15 and the government has a killer pension plan.

    Sorry to spoil the cute joke, but Castle WASN’T retiring; he was taking a FBI bureau desk job in London.

    Multiple gunshots to the chest, the concussive force of an explosion, he lies untreated and bleeding for hours, but a voodoo guy nurses him back to health without hospitalization.

    He was shot ONCE in the chest, once in the leg and arm.

    Val Kilmer in “Heat” was shot once in the chest, sustained blood loss, shock, tissue damage, and a fractured clavicle. The only treatment he got was hours later from a shady “doctor” who pulled out the bullet and gave him a little morphine. That hardly qualifies as “hospitalization,” yet he’s good enough to drive the next day. People get shot all the time in movies and recover quickly. A months-long recovery is much more believable. And by the way, isn’t reality SUPPOSED to be heightened in a comic book movie?

    Of course also living in the building is a hottie who for some unexplained reason is roomates with a couple of guys.

    They’re NOT roommates, they live in the same building. How did you miss that? For someone who claims to be “a fan of comic books and the movies they inspire, you don’t know very much about The Punisher. Welcome Back Frank,” Garth Ennis’ highly successful Punisher series from 2000, is where Joan, Spacker Dave, and Bumpo originated.

    Why Tampa?”

    Why not? Aside from the fact it’s more dangerous there than New York, Florida is where the villain in the Punihser origin comic “Year One” resided.

    It’s hard to take your review seriously when you get basic facts of the movie wrong then criticize those “facts.” Too bad you didn’t like Thomas Jane, I thought he did good. It’s interesting that most reviewers – even those who didn’t like the movie – liked Jane.

    Aside from those things, I wouldn’t really call your review a “slam.” It sounded to me like you enjoyed it. Go figure.

  11. Trasky,

    I appreciate your taking the time to debate. :D

    I was never a fan of The Punisher title so I was not familiar with many of the details. From what little I do know of it, it seems to me that New York (although done to death) would make a more suitable setting for the film. Even if it’s not more dangerous than Tampa, it’s perceived to be, IMO.

    I no longer have the DVD I rented, but I’m pretty sure the boys at the bureau referred to the party as a retirement party. At least that was my impression.

    Again, I seem to recall multiple shots to the trunk. I wan’t reviewing Heat, I was reviewing The Punisher. I would have said the same about the former that I did the latter. There’s nothing I’m aware of that says that Frank Castle has Wolverine-like healing powers, BTW.

    As to the hottie living with the social misfits, again, it seemed to me that was the situation. I thought she was shown getting ready for work in the same apartment as them and I never saw her in an apartment by herself.

    If you visit RottenTomatoes.com you will see that I am not alone in my assessment of the film, so it’s not like I’m going way out on a limb with my opinion of the movie. 8)

    I take it you’re a big fan of the comic book?

    As to enjoying the film, yeah, towards the end it finally started to come together. Who knows? Maybe the next one (which starts production in three months) will be better…

    Vic

  12. Most reviewers got that Castle was taking a Bureau job in London and the apartment dwellers weren’t roommates. Castle was shot ONCE in the chest. He doesn’t have healing powers and wasn’t hospitalized; that’s why it takes him several months to recover. It’s all in the movie.

    If you visit RottenTomatoes.com you will see that I am not alone in my assessment

    Since when are sequels made because of critical reaction? Lara Croft is a perfect example. Punisher, like Hellboy, made very little profit in theaters, but sold 4 times more dvds than Hellboy its first week. If you do the math, clearly Punisher came out ahead — yet people aren’t confused about a Hellboy sequel.

    Nobody can make you like the Punisher, but I think it’s fair to say your confusion regarding the sequel is unwarranted.

  13. Last post ^^^^^ by Trasky

  14. Thanks for posting those stats. I still think “Punisher” was lame overall.

    IMO DVD sales completely skew things now. It seems that even the worst movie can turn a profit once it goes to DVD. Really strange phenomenon.

    You cite the “Croft” movies. The first one was so painful to watch that I lasted maybe 15 minutes before I had to turn it off. It managed to turn a profit with overseas box office and I’m sure it made a fair penny with DVD sales. The second one would have tanked, again, if not for foreign box office. Again here I don’t know what the DVD sales were, but I’m sure they were pumped up by guys buying the film so they could do slo-mo and freeze frame shots of Jolie. 8)

    Lots of not-so-great films get sequels, so I suppose I shouldn’t be suprised. I tend to forget what my movie tastes were like back in my early twenties when I would go see Friday the 13th a couple of times and then part 2, 3, 4, etc. :P

    Vic

  15. The second [Lara Croft] would have tanked, again, if not for foreign box office.

    Without foreign boxoffice, Hellboy and Man on Fire would’ve tanked too. Heck, Kill Bill 2 only made a measly 6 million profit before foreign. What’s your point?

    Lots of not-so-great films get sequels, so I suppose I shouldn’t be suprised.

    Lots of films disliked by critics get sequels because they make money. What’s surprising about that?

  16. This is my last word on this, since I don’t feel strongly enough about “The Punisher” to argue this ad nauseum.

    I’m actually losing track of the point of this conversation…

    Bottom line: I don’t like bad movies, and I don’t like to see them make money because it encourages studios to continue putting out crap. I’d rather see well-made, engaging movies make money so that encourages studios to make those instead. So I’d rather see them take “Lord of the Rings” as an example of what to do over, I don’t know… “Charlie’s Angels” or “The Jackass Movie” for example.

    If the target audience for bad movies (males age 14-24 or whatever) continues to pay money to go watch crap, that’s what the studios will continue to produce.

    I mean sure, for a long time “Jerry Springer” had high ratings… Does that make it a “good show”? I’d much rather see more shows like “24″ or “Stargate SG-1″ produced than stuff like “Fear Factor” or “The Simple Life”.

    It’s a free country, so you’re welcome to defend whatever movies you like. But conversely, I can defend whatever I like as well.

    Best regards,

    Vic

  17. We’re talking about the friggin’ Punisher, not Citizen Kane. I don’t know very many comic book movies that qualify as “engaging.” Entertaining yes, engaging no. Punisher was an accurate depiction of the original origin story (yes, set in Florida). Most fans were happy the film was true to the comics.

    In your article you placed great value in movie profit as a way to read audiences. My point was to show that the Punisher made profit, therefore per your logic, audiences liked the movie.

    Well-respected critics at the LA Times, Washington Post, Rolling Stone, San Francisco Chronicle, and USA Today all got their facts right — and they all liked the Punisher. You misinterpreted basic facts of the movie then criticized those “facts” in your review. How does that qualify as “defending what you like?” :roll:

    Sincerely,

    Trasky

  18. CORRECTION: You misinterpreted basic facts of the movie then criticized those “facts” in your review. Yes, we’re free to express our opinions but how do you expect people to take yours seriously? :roll:

    Sincerely,

    Trasky

  19. Trasky makes factual and good points while vics are sloppy and inconsistant…sounds to me like vic didn’t do his homework and Trasky’s right. This was a great movie prob the best comic book movie to be made yet i cant wait for the sequal, keep up the good work Trasky

  20. Best comic movie to be made? You’ve got to be kidding me.

    As to my “sloppy” points. Whatever the details, the movie just wasn’t very good, and the consensus backs up my opinion. At RottenTomatoes.com only 28% of the general reviews were positive and only 25% of the reviews from the “Cream of the Crop” reviewers were positive. Not exactly a screaming endorsement nor indicative of a great movie.

    And if your counter to that is “who cares what reviewers say”, even at IMDB.com (where movies are rated by regular visitors) it only managed a 6.2/10. The only votes that came in over a 7.0 where from folks under 18… a group well known for it’s discerning tastes when it comes to film. :roll: Take those votes out and the overall score would have been much lower than 6.2.

    In the meantime, if you guys feel so strongly, there are plenty of places online where you can start up your own movie review/opinion website for free.

    Have at it.

    Vic

  21. Hellboy – a movie you like – also received most of its 7.0 and above votes from the under 18 crowd. Hellboy’s overall average is only .5 higher than Punisher’s. You mean to say half a point is the difference between a good movie and a bad movie? Lol. And by the way, who gave imdb users the last word on movies? Punisher got a “B” average from Yahoo users; Hellboy got a “B-.” By your logic that makes Punisher a better movie, right? :roll:

    Consensus backs up your opinions? Some of the most hardcore comic fans I’ve encountered online post at superherohype.com, and they just rated Punisher 3rd favorite Marvel movie of all time. Sorry, but your opinion “As far as the comic book fan base, it didn’t make that group happy either” is by no means a consensus. And who cares about rottentomatoes? There were plenty of well-respected critics at the LA Times, Washington Post, Rolling Stone, San Francisco Chronicle, and USA Today who gave Punisher excellent reviews. I trust them more than critics who misinterpret basic facts of a movie, then criticize the movie for those “facts.”

    It’s funny how in your article you suggest boxoffice and profit are a way to read audiences, but after I pointed out Punisher made profit, money suddenly become irrelevant to you. Critical reaction became the only measuring stick for a movie. How convenient!

    The bottom line is if you don’t like the movie then just say that. Don’t put words in the mouths of comic fans. Don’t say audiences didn’t like a movie because it made little profit, then refuse to acknowledge audiences liked the movie when you discover it made profit. In a recent interview Avi Arad said Punisher made 60 million on dvd, which brings Punisher’s gross to date up to 115 million.

    ‘Nuff said.

  22. I care what Rotten Tomatoes says because generally the rating that comes up there for a movie is a pretty good barometer of whether I will like it or not. Not always, but generally.

    As far as profit, to me DVD sales don’t mean much since even the crappiest of films end up turning a profit on DVD for some bizarre reason. As to the superherohype.com vote, 116 votes total with 24 votes for The Punisher is not much of a statistically significant number IMHO. And Hellboy got a far higher rating on Rotten Tomatoes, which for me is far more significant than the numbers on Yahoo!.

    Bottom line: I think the movie was lame, you think it was great. Because it didn’t impress me perhaps I didn’t pay as much attention to the details as you did, but I posted my honest impressions of the film, and that’s all I can do. My reasons for thinking it was poor don’t make sense to you and your arguments for it being good don’t wash with me. So be it, I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree but we don’t have to insult each other about it. BTW, I’m quite certain that my site certainly isn’t going to make or break the movie or any sequels. :P

    Your posts have been intelligent and well written and I’m not in the habit of deleting comments just because they disagree with my opinions, although it’s certainly within my capabilities to do so.

    So like I said, you are more than welcome to start up your own movie site. When you do I’d appreciate your sending me a link. :D

    Best regards,

    Vic

  23. “As far as profit, to me DVD sales don’t mean much since even the crappiest of films end up turning a profit on DVD for some bizarre reason.”

    DVD sales don’t mean much? What planet are you on? Most movies don’t see a real profit until dvd. Hellboy made almost the same amount of profit as Punisher in theaters (despite better reviews, PG-13 rating, bigger ad budget, wider release, no Kill Bill competition). Yahoo/imdb users basically gave it the same above average rating. The “bizarre reason” for Punisher’s success on DVD couldn’t have anything to do with these people liking the movie, could it? Lol.

    “As to the superherohype.com vote, 116 votes total with 24 votes for The Punisher is not much of a statistically significant number IMHO.”

    Then please cite a statistically significant number to back your claim that comic fans didn’t like the movie. Hang out on the Punisher boards sometime. Plenty of hardcore fans there – including the two guys who run the two biggest Punisher websites – liked the movie.

    “And Hellboy got a far higher rating on Rotten Tomatoes, which for me is far more significant than the numbers on Yahoo!.”

    Or apparently the numbers on imdb, which a minute ago you were so passionate about. But now that I’ve shown you that Punisher’s imdb rating was virtually the same as Hellboy’s, the imdb rating is conveniently dropped from your discussion.

    “My reasons for thinking it was poor don’t make sense to you”

    It’s not that they don’t make sense; it’s that the reasons in your review are based on factually incorrect information.

    “we don’t have to insult each other about it.”

    I don’t remember insulting you; I was trying to clear up your confusion why they were making a Punisher sequel. Sorry if you took it the wrong way.

    “I’m not in the habit of deleting comments just because they disagree with my opinions, although it’s certainly within my capabilities to do so.”

    I think you’re more mature than that.

  24. Sigh. I’m tired of this debate. I don’t care enough about this topic to debate it ad nauseum.

    In the meantime, here are a bunch of folks who liked it even less than I did, so maybe you could visit their sites and give them an earful telling them why they’re wrong, too:

    1/4 “I miss Dolph Lundgren.” Montreal Film Journal Kevin N. Laforest
    1/4 “Thrill-less garbage that aspires to franchisehood.” Boston Globe Wesley Morris
    1/4 “The film’s attempts at noir nastiness are sabotaged by Jane’s goofy furrowed-brow performance and solemn voice-over narration.” Slant Magazine Nicholas Schager
    1/5 “The Punisher is mildly entertaining, for all the wrong reasons” Times of London James Christopher
    1/5 “Revenge, they say, is a dish best served cold. Leftovers like this don’t count.” RTE Interactive (Dublin, Ireland) Harry Guerin
    D “A flatline affair from beginning to end, The Punisher is painfully dull, offering no characters, actions, scenes or special effects of note.” Detroit News Tom Long
    D “We knew Marvel Comics was going to toss out an indisputable turkey one of these days. They’ve just given us the gobbler to beat.” Flipside Movie Emporium Rob Vaux
    D- “A moronically inept and tedious piece of death-wish trash.” Entertainment Weekly Owen Gleiberman
    0/4 “Whoever first had the big idea of revisiting this material should be hung up by his Buster Browns and forced to watch the result — then he’ll know what ‘punishment’ means.” Tyler Morning Telegraph (Texas) Jonathan R. Perry
    0/5 “The Punisher is such a bad film that it becomes inadvertently entertaining.” Austi

    Have fun,

    Vic

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