‘The Mentalist’ Season 5 Details – ‘Dark’ Jane & Red John Reveal

Published 3 years ago by

the mentalist season 5 The Mentalist Season 5 Details   Dark Jane & Red John Reveal


After six “relaxing” months in Las Vegas, The Mentalist season 4 finale brought Patrick Jane closer to Red John than ever before – or so he thought (again). Though Red John may still be at large, the CBI now has Lorelei, one of his accomplices, in custody. Will Jane be able to “make her sing like a bird” next season?

Speaking with Entertainment Weekly, series creator Bruno Heller discussed what’s in store for Patrick Jane (Simon Baker) in season 5, the dark turn the series will take next season, the move to Sunday night, how some fans will be disappointed when Red John is finally revealed, and much more.

With Lorelei (Emmanuelle Chriqui) firmly in the grasps of the CBI, fans are waiting to see how Jane will get information about Red John out of her. Even though Red John’s accomplices don’t typically survive capture, Heller says he “hopes” she’ll stick around for a bit next season – hopefully long enough to get Jane closer to Red John.

Perhaps hinting at Patrick Jane’s interrogation techniques, Heller says that fans will be seeing a darker side of Jane in season 5:

…it’s not that Jane is No More Mr. Nice Guy, but we’re certainly going to see a little more of that hard darker side of him.

The show is not going to turn into a much darker show, but that character will show more of those colors. We’re getting closer to the meat of what the show is about.

That being said, don’t expect to see Red John officially revealing himself anytime soon. If anything, it will be at least two more seasons before that actually occurs. Being completely aware of how temperamental some series fans can be, Heller says that he knows people will be disappointed when Red John’s true identity is finally revealed:

…if season 5 we just opened a door and said “tah-dah!” and it was some mid-range actor, that would be disappointing. The trick is going to be — and this is coming — bringing the audience along and making them second guess themselves and ask, “Is that him? Is that him?” Red John ultimately is just a man — whenever you see the great criminals reduced to the flesh it’s sort of disappointing. I have two seasons or so to make it come true. I can guarantee that people will be disappointed.

You might already have seen him.

the mentalist season 51 The Mentalist Season 5 Details   Dark Jane & Red John Reveal

When it comes to talk about future seasons, one has to touch upon CBS’ recent decision to abruptly cancel CSI: Miami without providing the producers enough time to end the series appropriately. Fortunately, The Mentalist doesn’t appear to be anywhere near the position that CSI: Miami was when it was canceled. But if it does happen, Heller promises that they’ll know well enough in advance to make sure closure is provided for fans.

It’s the job of myself and everybody else on this show to keep it working as well as it does to ensure we get that final arc. A show that’s been running this long with the degree of success it’s had, we’ll know well in advance of that sort of outcome and we’ll adjust accordingly. I’m not concerned about that.

Of course, making the move to Sunday night may still have fans worried about what may happen to their favorite series. Thanks to Sunday night no longer carrying the terrible programming stigma that it has in the past, Heller has no worries about viewers finding The Mentalist in his new timeslot.

If I thought making a fuss would make any difference then I would feel differently. But there’s aspects of this job you don’t have control over. Our audience will follow us and hopefully we’ll also find a different audience than we found on Thursday nights.

While we won’t for sure know how The Mentalist will do on Sundays nights, CBS’ decision to move the series to the weekends represents their intention to expand their schedule to include compelling series across the entirety of the broadcast week, instead of solely focusing on certain key weekday programming.

So make sure that your viewing schedules are adjusted accordingly, as Patrick Jane takes on Sunday nights this fall.

Follow Anthony on Twitter @anthonyocasio

Source: Entertainment Weekly

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  1. @Rian KUDOS and a little pat on the back to myself too.

    • Jason King. look at all my previous posts dating back two years. I was right all along. It is a cabal.

      • Red John was appropriated and it is a cabal and cult. I have been saying that for three years.

        • I’m not too sure whether Bruno has chosen your resolution. I think that Red John will in the end be one person who will face Patrick.

    • The only way they could make this interesting at this point IS if Jane was John in some fugue state. I know they WILL NOT write that because exec producers would put an end to that idea for fear of syndication success. I know what I’m talking about. This is a network and this isn’t Breaking Bad where the end was a forgone conclusion. They are going to lay blame on a boring, pin the tail on the donkey villain. At this point after all this hoopla and ridiculousness the only way to redeem it all is making him the murderer and this be the show’s last season. I think that would be a brilliant goodbye.

  2. @Rian I’m also convinced that Ray Haffner is Red John. Red John has to be both a member of Visualise and a member of this secret organisation within law enforcement, that can only be Ray Haffner.

    • Kirkland is now out…(I wonder who called that?)…and to me Smith is as well based on the end of that episode, plus the description. So I am fully committed to Haffner still.

      Again, GREAT episode as well.

      • Just wanted to point out, though I am still on board with Haffner, I am more convinced about the others (possibly being RJ) now.

        Kudos to Reede Smith actor. Didnt think he had the acting chops to pull off a RJ follower or (technically) RJ himself, but now I have a little bit of faith in him.

        @JK…looks like your theory is panning out a little bit. $$$$.

    So we now know that there is a secret organisation within California law enforcement, that Kirkland was hunting Red John and Tiger Tiger is their pass code which means that Laroche, Bertram and Agent Cho could all be members. Now I wonder how soon we will have to wait for the reveal that Van Pelt is a new Visualise recruit? That Van Pelt is herself engaged in surveillance upon her own team for Visualise(how did Van Pelt know the content of the private conversations between Cho and Rigsby?
    I wonder if ‘Carmen Lee’ is another secret code for either this secret police cult or for Visualise?
    I have the feeling that the pigeons have a less symbolic meaning, that there is some visual clue that we’re missing.

  4. Can we now dismiss Brett Stiles as Red John as he’s not a member of this police cult?
    It’s interesting how easily Reede Smith was able to fool the sharp Kirkland. Do the police cult members already know of each other’s membership?

    • Any idea of why Stiles, head of Visualize. who has always intimated to PJ that he knows who RJ is but it may harm him personally to say, would hire a known nut job, assuming Haffner is RJ, who has no qualms about killing anyone who displeases him in any way as an attorney?

      And since Haffner is no longer a cop. where does that leave him in terms of power & mutual obligations & future availability to back him up, wrt his former brotherhood (possible henchmen) of law enforcement types?

      • When I originally speculated about the secret cult in law enforcement, it was inspired by Gale Bertram who I believed was Red John, a power hungry prep school psychopath whose satisfactory relationship with his mother filled him with rage and murderious ambition, he sat at the top table as Red John. Gale Bertram(in my theory of 3yrs ago) lead the cult of which Agent Cho was a member.

        Gale Bertram has consistently been the show’s Red John red herring. Wouldn’t it make perfect sense if he was the subject of a brilliant Heller double bluff and he was Red John after all. I’ve just got this sneaky feeling that Ray Haffner, Reede Smith and Tom MCallister are being skillfully positioned as Red John red herrings but for once Bertram Gale doesn’t really look like John which makes me think that he is.

        • @ JK
          Are you talking about a subterranian “Lord of the Flies” scenario where Bertram gets to be head of the tribe?

          Bertram certainly does seem divorced from his responsibilties to his staff underlings, but I think it is a stretch to see him as a star psychopath. Right hand man who gets his perks, yes, maybe. But he is too vanilla & it sounds too risky to his prized career to cut loose & be all psychopathic right in his own catchment area.

        • Apologies for my typo ‘unsatisfactory’ relationship with his mother…..,
          Red John is an arch misogynist who hides/justifies his misogyny with appeals to pseudonymous spirituality which in itself is highly appealing to a kind of damaged woman. I can’t help but think that the more powerful the man the greater his need for self deceit, feels a little more Bertram than Haffner.

  5. As far as the “He is Mar” loose end, I found an explanation on that I wanted to share (I am not sure I buy it though).

    The explanation is that HE IS MAR is actually HE IS MAN. However, rather than it being 3 words, it is only one. That would make it HEISMAN, like the trophy. The same trophy that is sitting behing Haffner’s desk the first time he was introduced.

  6. @ Rian
    “HEISMAN” could work. The preview shows Haffner w/ bulging biceps doing curls w/shiny big dumb bells.

    And if his papa is Stiles, maybe hiring him away to private law practice for Visualize is an effort to spare him when the secret society is exposed plus give him new levels of assistance to cover up if he is RJ, maybe even super-impose some structure (the Italian phrase “Hold your friends close, but your enemies closer” comes to mind w/ the correlary: “Keep crazy relatives @ home”) but is Haffner an attorney? I thought he was analogous in rank / training to TL & she’s not an attorney, right?

    Another question: SPOILER ALERT – Do you think Smith came up w/ the idea to execute Kirkland, himself, or did he just volunteer for the job of Junior-RJ: lying, hazing, shaming, then after encouraging an attempt to flee, not just killing, but over-killing.

    The pigeons may serve as both an alarm system so RJ will know anyone’s approach by their flapping upward. He can get them to gather w/ birdseed & maybe some pheromone concoction. Deliberately shooing them himself after a murder may be like a smoke signal to his comrades to do their part.

    • SPOILER ALERT !!!!!!
      If Reede Smith is RJ why did he not chose to execute Kirkland in the traditional RJ way, carefully set the scene, place his sign where it could be seen?
      Kirkland was involved with Bertram which leads me to think that it was Bertram who ordered his execution.

      If Renfrew wanted to inform people who was responsible for his death, why leave such an enigmatic and obscure clue behind when Lorelei’s sister simply wrote the name of her attacker in her blood?

      • @JK
        see below for my take on the Reede Smith question.

        As far as Renfrew…he may have knew about the corruption in law enforcement, so he may have though a message about RJ would be erased or buried. However, if he gave an obscure hint, it may well get back to Jane at some point.

        This explanation ties into my Tyger group theory as well…quite nicely actually.

    • @elsmitho
      As far as Haffner being a lawyer…I have never heard that, but I could be wrong. From what I understand he went to the CBI, then to private security.

      Also, as per Reede Smith, my theory is that…RJ has a hold over the Tyger group, but the group is trying to find a way out of his grasp. To clarify…if something happened to RJ, he may have a fail safe and the Tyger group may be exposed as currupt. So the group (Partridge, Smith, McAlister, Bertram) needs RJ alive, and are aiding him against their will. And because Jane and Kirkland want to find RJ, they are getting in the way of that. And Stiles’ connection is that he knows and cares (somewhat) for RJ and is reluctant to give him up to be killed.

      Hope that made sense.

      • which is why Bertram is so adament on finding him first. To figure out how to take care of him without being exposed.

      • That’s an excellent theory except for one thing, Reede Smith’s murder of Kirkland felt personal. He referenced Kirkland’s ” low level guys ” as if it were an affront to his pride. Reede Smith was angry. It didn’t feel like his hand was forced or that he resented his orders, if he was indeed ordered to murder Kirkland.

  7. This is a strictly Haffner post as to why he, in my opinion, is RJ. I said I would gather info from the seasons and make a list on why I picked Haffner…so here it goes.

    1.) The description is dead on
    2.) Ray and Roy similarity
    3.) Tagliaferro is German…so is Haffner. Also the history of the name Haffner means branching into political conflicts.
    4.) He is Man/Heisman…trophy behing Haffner
    5.) Not a red herring at any point
    6.) Whistler
    7.) Connections to law enforcement and Visualize
    8.) RJ has friends….Haffner ask Lisbon “we are friends” when confronted about Visualize
    9.) Haffner asks Cho “Do you think Jane is smarter than me”….and at the end of season 5 in the video RJ says “you think you are pretty dam clever
    10.) The pause when Lorelei said Raymond Haffner in the video
    11.) Jane shook his hand on screen
    12.) He is the only one not affiliated with the Tyger group so far (as per my theory)
    13.) He came to the CBI just after Jane killed fake RJ, and in my opinion, it was to get a read on him

    Okay…these were just the ones I can think of at the moment, and I think it is pretty convincing. Now you know why I am on team Haffner.

    • Also…

      14.) Haffner likes Teresa, which would explain why RJ left her alive. And for that matter, why he never went after the team.

      15.) Listen to the way RJ pronounces Teresa at the end of season 6×01. Then listen to the way Haffner says it……very similar.

      16.) And Haffner is the only one Teresa refers to by his first name.

      17.) When Lisbon is in the hospital, just as he sits next to her, he says “you were this close to RJ”

      18.) Visualize connection, which Haffner has, would explain why RJ has all this money…the kind on money you need to start your own security firm…which fits into my Stiles theory

      19.) He has the connection to narrow down Jane’s list to 7 names

      20.) He left the CBI when Jane was getting more drastic in his pursuit of RJ

      21.) He has access to CBI to poison Bosco’s secretary

      22.) Haffner and RJ have both said “well done” when Jane got one over on him

      23.) RJ is not religious…neither is Haffner. He DID join visualize afterall

      24.) He was at visualize farm when the smiley face was drawn on the barn


      • Last 3, I swear lol…

        26.) Haffner’s eyes just seem “different”

        27.) When Lisbon is in the hospital a nurse named Carmen Lee comes to see her to make sure she is okay to talk. Carmen means “red”. It is as if she was making sure she is good so RJ could come in….and that is when Haffner enters.

        28.) In Lisbons RJ dream, I am pretty sure Haffner is holding a curved blade. You have to pause it to see, but I think he is

        Okay now I am really done…feel free to add to this

        • Id counsel you against putting all your eggs in the Haffner basket. Bruno is presenting us with the evidence to damn Haffner which is why I smell a red herring. Red John will be the man we least suspect on the suspect list. The suspect who Bruno seemingly clears, will be Red John. Right now everything points to Haffner, he whistles, he appears in Lisbon’s dream sequence, he frightens Lisbon in the hospital, he whistles.

          We know very little about the good Sheriff, he and Brett Stiles fail to appear in Lisbon’s dream which damns Bertram, Smith and Haffner.

          @Rian leave a little room for doubt.

      • Well done was also said by two other suspects.

    • Again excellent except for one matter, Tagliaferro has it’s roots in latin and it’s quite interesting. It’s a bit of a hybrid of Late Latin and Classical Latin. Let’s start with the easiest first, ferro is a verb meaning I bear, I carry. Now Taglia appears to be related to a Late Latin noun ‘ talio’ punishment thus Tagliaferro translated seems to mean I bring punishment or maybe I am the bearer of punishment.

  8. @Rian
    You are constructing a mighty, multiple levels of argument, that it would be hard to match w/ proofs for any others still alive on PJ’s short list.

    I just can’t mentalize where he finds all the heinous motivation for his ongoing assaults, though. Cho who has been a hoodlum & been to war & experienced the bitterness of serving a seeming undeserving govt has stronger motivation showing than Haffner does.

    Didn’t Haffner seem pretty easy to play tricks on when PJ was was assigned to work under him?

    WRT that info that Tagliaferro is German? Sounds pretty Italian to me. Choosing ‘Roy’ suits RJ types as the it is from the same root as “Royal”.

    I realize the Heller group can twist the plot how ever they wish, but Haffner, over the seasons, has not stood out as a passionate type or overly bright or sophisticated. Wanna-be, maybe, I guess.

    Maybe we are being “punished” for being pushy to get on w/ exposing RJ. Ever heard the “You want it bad, you get it bad” of a Giver unwilling to be generous?


    • @elsmitho
      As far as Tagliaferro, I thought it sounded latin or italian as well, but IIRC the show said German…but I could be wrong.

      With regards to Haffner getting run out of the CBI by Jane’s tricks…I think that was the point. I think Haffner just wanted a good look at Jane, after what Jane just did to someone pretending to be Red John. Also it is funny that the only woman who could ID him (Rosalind Harker) just missed him in that episode.

      However, I do agree that when looking at all the potential characters through all the seasons that could have been Red John, the showrunners picked a bad seven. But Haffner is the only one that would satisfy me and make sense in my head…but who knows.

  9. I have this awful feeling Haffner is going to be ruled out next episode and that red john is going to be Reed. THE LAST PERSON I WANT RED JOHN TO BE IS REED. I would take Haffner the sheriff or anyone else but not reed.
    I REALLY HOPE NOT. I would be so disappointed. I also hope they keep the creepy voice. I hope it’s not fake.

    The clue at the season 1 premier end was the pigeons grouped together,three were together….sheriff, betram and reed…so who does that leave Stiles and Haffner. Haffner is going to be in it next episode which is too early for my liking so I think they will rule him out.

    Also what is with the twin thing. I have a feeling that bob was asking ” have you seen my face before” in season 5, because he thought his twin might be RJ. but then why the hell didn’t he ask who red john was……….UNLESS he was RED JOHN and he was asking because he wanted to know if Bob Kirkland was the one that saw him before or talked to him. Maybe the RJ follower never met the real red john before but then he wouldn’t be able to tell the real bob anything…but this might put bob back on the list. It’s something to think about

  10. All I know is that s#!t is going down in the next episode.

    • I just want to point out…I am feeling less and less confident in my Haffner pick. I just wanted to post my updated list as to who I believe it is…

      1.) Haffner
      2.) Bertram (VERY close second)
      3.) Partridge or Kirkland back from the dead
      4.) McAlister
      5.) Bret Stiles
      6.) Smith

      …dam I dont even know. The top 4 all seem likely to me now.

      • The Haffner as Red John theory is beginning to unravel. Haffner WARNED Jane about the ‘comeuppance’ and when Jane was too arrogant to listen, he then warned Lisbon and Van Pelt, hardly the actions of Red John.

        • Yeah I am feeling that way too. Dam these showrunners.

  11. About a year ago, before the list, I hypothesized that Governor Jerry Brown was RJ. I said this because of his connections to law enforcement. Also, the fact that every Mentalist episode title had something to do with the color red, and the Governor is responsible for all the cases CBI takes. Not to mention the way Bertram looks at the TV in the season 3 finale when it mentions Governor Jerry Brown.

    Now we know that he is not RJ, but I am beginning to think he is the leader of the Tyger Tyger group, especially since Haffner had a letter from him inserting him into the case. That, and along with Haffner’s warnings make me think so even more.

    Anyone else think this is possible?,,,

    • Lol the Governor Jerry Brown is a REAL PERSON, he is alive and still the Governor of California though he’s lost a lot of hair since he first won the seat.
      In the 100th episode, there was a photograph of the then seated Governor Arnold Schwarnegger, I am yet to hear of any Arnie as Red John theories lol

      • Guest appearance? lol

  12. I looked carefully for TL’s gold crucifix that she wore habitually up to the episode where RJ captured her. Did he take it for a souvenir? Is RJ attempting, as Haffner clearly is, to loosen TL’s attachment to pillars of her character, how she determines what is right & what is not?

    What about Haffner putting his hand on PJ’s shoulder & telling PJ he has a “come-uppance coming”? Does anyone think he was in the meeting that planned it, or is he wire tapping conference rooms, as PJ snidely remarked @ Bertram’s meeting in his office?

    Is PJ confident enough that he can taunt Haffner saying, “You are even a worse private detective than you were a cop”. Would PJ or would he not especially start riling up someone he thinks IS the real RJ?

    • We do not know yet whether Haffner had a role in the decision of the Tiger Tiger group to hand Jane a ‘ comeuppance ‘ but we do know that he disapproves of it. He has twice issued warnings first to Jane who was to arrogant to hear and then to Lisbon and Van Pelt who were too naive to understand it ‘remember that I tried to help’

  13. @Rian and @Elsmitho and @Xenophon. I’ve just seen the promo for Fire and Brimstone

    Jane gathers the 5 remaining Red John suspects together in a room to check them for tattooes at gun point which means that Red John is not among those five suspects as the 5th episode is a little early to reveal Red John.
    If Red John is on the suspect’s list that means that Brett Partridge or Kirkland is Red John as we saw Kirkland gunned down by Reede Smith. It leaves us Brett Partridge. Could he somehow have faked his own death?

    • Well, if any one would have known how to fudge the documentation or have the the right set of Tyger-Tyger Buddies on duty, it would be him. He has the horrid personality of course. Snively Whiplash all the way.

      It’s a wonder even the Tyger guys put up w/ him unless he is the founding member &/or is blackmailing em all.

      • How could EITHER of these happen if TL & PJ were diligently checking corpses, as is their stock & trade?
        Michael K’s corpse, possibly kept on ice for yrs could be swapped off for his twins, I suppose, but it feels like we are being sold soap here.

        • @Elsmitho you are quite right, it seems absurd but in the next episode Jane is going to gather the 5 remaining suspects in a room and examine them for tattooes at gun point. Red John is not due to be revealed yet so I’m guessing that none of those suspects best the mark which means that incredible as it may seem Red John must be either Kirkland or Partridge as we saw Kirkland riddled with bullets, then Partridge must make a miraculous recovery.

          I could of course have misinterpreted the promo of Fire and Brimstone and Jane does not examine their shoulders for tattoos.

    • After the promo I thought EXACTLY the same thing. Also, Rosalind Harker said RJ smelled like pine…and Kirkland has a cabin in a pine tree area.

      Also, the scene with Lisbon getting taken by RJ has bothered me for a while. He back is against a closed window and a wall when she is grabbed from behind, which seems highly unlikely. Unless she wasn’t, and Partridge was faking.

      Either way, the earliest we would find out the identity of RJ is at the end of next week, so I think none of the suspects Jane gathers will be him. As a side note, Jack Plotnik (Partridge) said he is actually dead and has never voiced RJ before.

      Regardless, these options are seeming more and more likely to me.

      • To clarify on Kirkland coming back…

        1.) I am referring to his twin brother being RJ.


        2.) The brother was the one killed.

        • I’m really sorry but I do have a big SPOILER so please don’t read on if you wish not to know what will happen in later in the season.


          The actor who plays Kirkland (Kevin Corrigan) will be returning to the show. I don’t know whether it will be as a flashback or as Michael Kirkland.

          Alas I also know who Red John is now and it’s unfortunate that I know but sometimes ones curiosity gets the better. All I will say is that Red John will be unveiled in the 8th episode which is called Red John. Be prepared to be surprised!!!

          • @ JK
            The only RJ candidate that would surprise me would be Stiles whose Visualize subplot seems pregnant w/ unfinished sub-plots anyway.

            How sure are we that Van Pelt is still a Visualize groupie? It is pretty lame that she would take up w/ the cult that managed her seemingly sweet fiance turning into a souless killer. Still, I wonder if she has some private ambition to beat RJ to a bloody pulp on behalf of all the victims she identifies with. It might make a certain neglected audience demographic feel less ignored, so to speak, to give Grace AKA Wonder Woman an active role in kicking butt & taking names.

            • Grace repeated Visualise dogma to the priest in the Red Barn episode. It would be another narrative reversal for her not to be.
              What I also want to know is this, if Brett Stiles has been missing for a period since Jane completed the suspect’s list exactly whose phone did Grace bug as it cannot have belonged to Brett Stiles.

              • @ JK
                Wrt tracers on cell phones: Van Pelt could’ve faked putting one on Style’s cell phone, thus lying to her boss TL, but more likely she just placed it. So what if it was out of range or turned off in a drawer, not going anywhere? Sometimes people hand their phone over to someone else to tend while they are unavailable. If that is what happened, I wonder if Styles chose Cooper who has rock solid demeanor or shoot-first-ask-questions-later Haffner.

                I just saw the 2nd to the most recent episode on the CBS website (alas, my relationship w/ cable is a tale in itself). It appears whoever killed the PI who bugged Cho’s desk was either known to her or dressed like the cable guy she was demanding on the phone when the killer arrived. I suppose that whole episode could have been the failed “come-uppance” Haffner had been predicting,

                I do not think Haffner was trying to help or protect PJ by yakking about it to TL & Van Pelt, but rather, he craves the kind of mutual fondness & respect they have going w/ Jane & was trying the childish manouver of belittling Jane & praising himself. Jane’s rejoinder, “You are even a worse psychic than you were a cop” & then going on to read Haffner’s facial response was well-placed, I thought.

                But if that was THE come-uppance, the PI bugging the CBI office, then it does put Haffner @ the front of the line for her killer, if not all the others.

                I do not mind spoilers in the least.
                Open question to all SRanters: what was revealed in the episode of Jane looking for red dot tatoos @ gunpoint?

                What is your current impression of who is RJ?

                • As soon as Red John is revealed in a couple of episodes time, I shall be free to return to the Screenrant fray.

                • @elsmitho

                  I dont have a clue who RJ is anymore lol. If I had to guess…I think RJ is one of either Haffner, Bertram, Kirkland.

                  • @Rian
                    Has Heller had some salutory effect on us or is it still “wait & pass judgment” when its all done?
                    We were all fighting over the implications of minutia not so long ago.
                    When you wrote “I claim BS”, I took it @ its usual meaning, then said to myself, “Maybe Rian is announcing he is now completely convinced it is Bret Styles, but is doing it in a covert way”.

                    So thank you for your very frank & thoightful answer today.

                    Wasn’t is Sherlock Holmes who used to cry out, “The game’s afoot!”?

                    • @elsmitho

                      My use of BS was not Bret Stiles lol. I just don’t think JK KNOWS for sure who RJ is based on the character appearances listed on future episodes.

                      For one, those things are wrong all the time. And two, while it may mean something, it could also mean nothing at all.

                      PS…Stiles is the only one I am “sure” is not Red John, once it was confirmed RJ is ONE person and not a group.

      • @Rian
        The scene where TL was pounched on was very dark on my screen, the lighting, as you say, to her back. I think from recent CBI talking, I have gleaned that RJ is using a taser to paralyze victims, so they can not fight back or get away, RJ could’ve been facing her on the opposite side of BP’s body, not even touching her till she hit the floor. I am pretty sure speech is not possible until other muscle groups all get their coordination back also. But her inability to recall ANY of it is either a defensive manouver of her own mind, so that she can deny the horribleness & keep doing her job, which has come to be her refuge, or RJ may have convinced her subconscience that everybody will die if she tells who he is.

        • @elsmitho

          I can buy that regarding Lisbon. But why not show RJ hand pulling the trigger or something? Instead of making it seem like she was pulled from behind.

          Also, I believe they say RJ blitz attacks and uses a stun-gun from behind, not a taser. Meaning he would have to get up close anyways.

          • @ Rian
            It took a while to find the difference btwn a stun gun & a taser. Stun gun requires body contact to discharge, taser can can arc a distance to its target. I am informed a taser “app” is near availability forr cell phones. One zap would drain the whole battery I would think.

            So as far as RJ goes, the end result looks the same to CBI & taser seems more useful.

            I saw very little in that scene, thinking I was having to put more “now but not yet” from Heller & Co.

            I await the next set of posts & clues from SR.

  14. What if Smith shot Kirkland w/ paintballs?

    • Lol. That’s brilliant! Still laughing!

  15. @ JK
    So we are talking Bret Styles then….

    • @Elsmitho I don’t think you really want to know and I wish that I could unknow. I am intrigued as to how this character came to be Red John but in truth he is the only character who makes sense as Red John. If you really wish to know there is a simple way of finding out, I do advise you against it.

      • I didn’t think that was a spoiler. I have known that since about the season premier.

        Not convinced it seals the dead as him being RJ, but it sure increases the chance of it.

        • Unfortunately I know who Red John is. I published the SPOILER ALERT the return of Kevin Corrigan prior to my learning the identity of Red John which I will not reveal. I loathe that I stumbled across it but I have and I cannot unknow it. I won’t spoil the big reveal for anyone.

          • Jason I need to know, yes really.. Seriously I need to know how to figure it out, I’ve been trying for months! You said if we really wanted to know its simple… So email me nicegal_15@hotmail.com

            • I’m highly reluctant to give out such information, just incase that person releases it. All I’ll say that if you really want to know, the information is out there with actors commitments. Please don’t spoil it for those who wish just to enjoy the show and chat in Screenrant.

          • I call BS

          • Hello all, if it’s a previous deceased character as RJ I’ll be disappointed but I’m aware Kirkland is RJ. He’s middle-aged…and someone else online has added it. I’m still saying it’s Alex Jane hash!! In the UK I’ve 6 weeks to wait!

  16. After the misogynistic throat slashers’ identity has been revealed, I will return to screenrant.

    • Mr King, is

    • Mr King, i

  17. @JK

    I am not saying you dont know, but Bruno Heller made a comment before the season 3 finale that “We would see a glimpse of RJ.”

    So unless you have come to the conclusion that it is Bertram (he is the only RJ suspect to appear in the episode), you have to take it with a grain of salt.

  18. If you believe online forums that is!! The only way I’ll be surprised is if RJ is not on the list! Where’s the Walter Mashburn and Ellis Mars brigade haha!!?

  19. If it’s Partridge I shall feel cheated. He IS dead though. When Lisbon entered the house, the toilet door was closed. After seeing Partridge on the floor she turns and it’s open. This means THREE people were inside the house. BP is dead. I hope!

  20. There’s still one s

  21. There’s still one sTory one yet to be explained…where’s Kristina Frye!!?? And Rigsby’s Son has vanished too!!!

  22. I still see the final Red John scene being Jane, Lisbon, Kirkland and whoever RJ is in one big Mexican stand off. PJ and BK wanting revenge and TL wanting justice. That’s my expectation but we shall see…


    Don’t go looking for spoilers. I just made that mistake and I am a little pissed at myself. I now know everything that happens with/to RJ, and also what comes after. The only thing I don’t know is who RJ is….All I will say is that I like what I read on how the RJ story ends, and also what they are doing going forward.

  24. SPOILERS (kind-of) BELOW…..

    I know I have switched my opinions as to who RJ is more than I can count, but I am now on team Bertram.

    In the promo I believe it shows 3 of the remaining 5 are dead. Those are Haffner, McAllister, and Stiles. That now leaves Smith and Bertram, and ever since the beginning I have said Bertram can fit, but not as well as some of the others.


    As per the magazine, RJ is the leader of the corrupt Tyger Tyger group. Also, he was in the show for a long time, and he even thought he was a red herring rather than the real thing. That, combined with the on-screen handshake, and Heller saying we would get a glimpse of RJ in the season 3 finale, leads me to think that RJ is Bertram.

    Unless of course Partridge or Kirkland come back…then I am back to the guessing game.

    • And Bertram isn’t on any of the episode rosters after episode 8. That isn’t proof, but just a tidbit. Not to mention the CBI gets a massive makeover after episode 8.

      • @Rian
        WRT Bertram, how does it fit that Jane had to teach him how to “hide his tell” @ playing poker?

        If we think Bertram is RJ, it makes plenty of sense to pull B Kirkland from Bertram’s line of discipline w/Smith on behalf of FBI, then teaming up to herd Bertram through the gate for corruption if nothing else.

        I seriously doubt B Kirkland is dead; it was a demo for the Tyger-Tyger concession & a chance to go underground.

      • @Rian


        In a snippet the network posted today, the scenes are juxtaposed of Cho saying the very busy blast site is “out of control” & that some suspects have slipped away & then Jane says “He is one of them!” Who Cho?


        • @elsmitho
          Side Note: I thought the promo scene with Cho was at a different location, because Jane wakes up in the hospital so I think we will see what happened in Jane’s flashbacks.

          The poker part (WRT Bertram) will annoy me if he is Red John. That makes no sense to me as well. However, I think Bertram is still the best fit if the final three are Him, Smith, and McAllister.

  25. First of all, I think all the Red John suspects are still fair game, because I am not convinced Brett Partridge or the real Bob Kirkland are dead.

    Now to my point – If Red John had to hire that woman to bug the CBI, shouldn’t that rule out a few of the suspects?

    If Red John was say – Bertram, McAllister, Haffner, or Smith – couldn’t they just do it themselves? Haffner has access to the CBI, even if he is not connected to the corrupt portion. And the other three seem to be friendly enough that they could plant the bug in the CBI without detection, especially since Bertram runs the thing.

    Partridge, Bret Stiles, and Kirkland can’t walk in there because 2 of them are dead, and one is a fugitive. But Stiles could just get Haffner to do it so that rules him out.

    So with a little deductive reasoning, I am convinced it is one of the remaining two: Partridge and Kirkland. And hey, they both meet all the criteria previously stated about the characteristics of Red John.

    I wont get into the evidence on the final two suspects, because you posters have done it many times, but I just wanted to throw in my two cents. Thanks.

    • @Foothill
      It could be that RJ just was feeling an appetite to stir up CBI & kill again.
      At this point, he probably has the feeling that silence is not golden,& if he wants to stay ahead of CBI / PJ, then he has to control the timing & agenda.

      Did RJ intend for the woman to be dead, but there just was not enough time to finish the execution, or is leaving the clues deliberately just as he is setting up easy-to-catch PI’s doing illegal jobs on CBI turf, his way of reeling PJ in like a fish?

      Bret Styles does this hokey ritual about ascending, then he gets killed, I hear.
      RJ may rightly thinking he would rather not revert to a life of subjugation in the custody of the penal system. Most likely he wants to remain a legend, like Son of Sam or Butch Cassidy, but his thinking has become very distorted on this matter, so that he becomes enraged w/ anyone who introduces an alternative interpretation to all RJ has done… The wasting of human lives, relatedness, the murder of beauty, truth & justice….

  26. Has anyone else noticed all the red herring clues for each of the seven suspects? All of them whistle, have a fear, give off a creepy vibe, etc.

    That point brings me to Kirkland. He is the only suspect who has fit a past Red John clue. Rosalind Harker said RJ smelled of pine and earth all the way back in season 1. And in season 6, Kirkland is found to have a cabin surrounded by pine trees.

    I find it interesting that Kirkland is the only suspect that the showrunners have given a link to Red John in a subtle way. The minority of viewers wouldn’t remember that Rosalind said that all that time ago.

    I just found that tidbit interesting.

    • Also, I am really waiting for a Partridge/Kirkland resurrection. It makes no sense to me that their deaths/bodies weren’t seen or examined on-screen.

  27. Because I do enjoy the idea that the show is beset by changes and changes of direction, I’m reproducing part of an interview with the writer of Red Listed.

    “Originally, Kirkland was not going to die in this episode,” Rebecca Cutter, who wrote “Red Listed,” tells TVGuide.com. “I really pushed strongly that we should try and get rid of [him], narrow it down so the audience really knows we’re getting there.”

  28. Great episode. One more week until the speculation is over. However, I do hope they tie up all the RJ loose-ends/questions in the upcoming episode.

    I have all but given up on trying to figure out who RJ is, but after this episode, I strongly do not believe it is Bertram.

    Side Note: When Jane/Lisbon are questioning Reede Smith, the guy that walks by whistling is freaking Kirkland. Watch a past scene with Kirkland, then watch this scene again. Its the same dude. They have the same build, and they both have the grey patch of hair on the side of their head.

    I have given up on guessing, but I guess Kirkland is now my frontrunner.

    • @Rian
      Thanks for your comments. I managed to get a “subscription” off I-tunes that will supply me through Season 6, so I know no one seems to be doubting Cho’s loyalties. It seems strange TL does not ask for confirmation of the hand-off to total outsiders.

      With time running out & Betram showing his talent for murder any time he feel like it, his easy take-charge & no explanations attitude, I can live w/ bad Bertram as the Red Dragon, but it is sort or of like attributing it to a mobster….thoughtless & mean, but hardly brilliant or complex. Maybe the Blake Society started by covering up a law enforcement agent’s quirky abusive murder when he pled for assistance, but then Bertram felt rank should have its privilege. I am assuming Bob Kirkland is alive, that he has the FBI via Smith to thank for it. Smith reaching for his gun when Lisbon entered Jane’s house after the explosion, wasn’t acting very all-for-one & one for all toward the anti-RJ contingent, so that’s another big incongruency in the present path the writers are leading us down.

      If Kirkland is truly RJ, then maybe he ( not Jane) has a dissociative disorder. All that go round w/ Luther duct taped in the limo that was projecting RJ’s voice. It is so hard to imagine Bertram going to this kind of detailed scheming or taking pleasure in it.

      I hope it is a meticulously thought out & presented “Reveal” next week.

      • @elsmitho

        I agree that during the “reveal” next week, the showrunners better tie up all the loose ends the show has in terms of RJ. As long as all of the loose ends come together and make sense WRT Red John, I will be happy.

        P.S….Practically everyone I know that watches the series is very confident RJ is McAllister.