‘The Mentalist’ Season 5 Details – ‘Dark’ Jane & Red John Reveal

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the mentalist season 5 The Mentalist Season 5 Details   Dark Jane & Red John Reveal

[WARNING - THIS POST CONTAINS THE MENTALIST SEASON 4 SPOILERS!!!]

After six “relaxing” months in Las Vegas, The Mentalist season 4 finale brought Patrick Jane closer to Red John than ever before – or so he thought (again). Though Red John may still be at large, the CBI now has Lorelei, one of his accomplices, in custody. Will Jane be able to “make her sing like a bird” next season?

Speaking with Entertainment Weekly, series creator Bruno Heller discussed what’s in store for Patrick Jane (Simon Baker) in season 5, the dark turn the series will take next season, the move to Sunday night, how some fans will be disappointed when Red John is finally revealed, and much more.

With Lorelei (Emmanuelle Chriqui) firmly in the grasps of the CBI, fans are waiting to see how Jane will get information about Red John out of her. Even though Red John’s accomplices don’t typically survive capture, Heller says he “hopes” she’ll stick around for a bit next season – hopefully long enough to get Jane closer to Red John.

Perhaps hinting at Patrick Jane’s interrogation techniques, Heller says that fans will be seeing a darker side of Jane in season 5:

…it’s not that Jane is No More Mr. Nice Guy, but we’re certainly going to see a little more of that hard darker side of him.

The show is not going to turn into a much darker show, but that character will show more of those colors. We’re getting closer to the meat of what the show is about.

That being said, don’t expect to see Red John officially revealing himself anytime soon. If anything, it will be at least two more seasons before that actually occurs. Being completely aware of how temperamental some series fans can be, Heller says that he knows people will be disappointed when Red John’s true identity is finally revealed:

…if season 5 we just opened a door and said “tah-dah!” and it was some mid-range actor, that would be disappointing. The trick is going to be — and this is coming — bringing the audience along and making them second guess themselves and ask, “Is that him? Is that him?” Red John ultimately is just a man — whenever you see the great criminals reduced to the flesh it’s sort of disappointing. I have two seasons or so to make it come true. I can guarantee that people will be disappointed.

You might already have seen him.

the mentalist season 51 The Mentalist Season 5 Details   Dark Jane & Red John Reveal

When it comes to talk about future seasons, one has to touch upon CBS’ recent decision to abruptly cancel CSI: Miami without providing the producers enough time to end the series appropriately. Fortunately, The Mentalist doesn’t appear to be anywhere near the position that CSI: Miami was when it was canceled. But if it does happen, Heller promises that they’ll know well enough in advance to make sure closure is provided for fans.

It’s the job of myself and everybody else on this show to keep it working as well as it does to ensure we get that final arc. A show that’s been running this long with the degree of success it’s had, we’ll know well in advance of that sort of outcome and we’ll adjust accordingly. I’m not concerned about that.

Of course, making the move to Sunday night may still have fans worried about what may happen to their favorite series. Thanks to Sunday night no longer carrying the terrible programming stigma that it has in the past, Heller has no worries about viewers finding The Mentalist in his new timeslot.

If I thought making a fuss would make any difference then I would feel differently. But there’s aspects of this job you don’t have control over. Our audience will follow us and hopefully we’ll also find a different audience than we found on Thursday nights.

While we won’t for sure know how The Mentalist will do on Sundays nights, CBS’ decision to move the series to the weekends represents their intention to expand their schedule to include compelling series across the entirety of the broadcast week, instead of solely focusing on certain key weekday programming.

So make sure that your viewing schedules are adjusted accordingly, as Patrick Jane takes on Sunday nights this fall.

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Follow Anthony on Twitter @anthonyocasio

Source: Entertainment Weekly

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  1. One thing I feel I should put out there. PLEASE Bruno Heller, have at least a few episodes next season where it appears the CBI Team actually have brains. They are wrong about every case, and can never seem to function without Jane. Sometimes I wonder how they got their jobs.

    It’s not a huge thing, but it has been driving me crazy for the last 2 seasons now.

  2. Elsmitho@ I know that you insist on a particular reading of the show which suggests that Bruno Heller is some kind of unique all knowing entity guiding the show towards a prescribed and known ending.
    I don’t believe this to be so, many individuals have an input in a show and shows change course, studios study ratings, pre screen shows to sample audiences, actors want bigger parts or to leave, studios want romances to appeal to female audiences or fear the loss of main characters or demand them. There are so many competing voices and changing circumstances that a showrunner must face.
    Initially Patrick was Red John which would have been a completely original spin on the revenge drama, the hero pursues the villain who is himself.
    There are many interviews and articles written after the pilot(including an interview with Simon Baker)which openly discuss this.
    Timothy Carter was supposed to be Red John also. Indeed it is well known now that the script of the season 3 finale was called the Red John Script(later after it was aired it became renamed the fake Red John script).
    Now these things happen, viewer power forced these changes of heart.
    How will Bruno pull off the Red John revelation? I hope it’s managed a little better than the Volker storyline which was rushed and unconvincing.

    • JK
      Would you consider the concept that I & probably others go to SR to learn additional HARD DATA, not to admire the virtuosity of the musings of a few of you?

      I would really appeciate seeing correlations between “thumbs up / thumbs down” polling & revisions of direction of the show.

      I am well awake networks, sponsors like advertisers hold a great deal of sway. I still grieve the termination of “Boston Legal” over such tangles as “who does own the script” and how much editorial license is it decent for an outside force to have?

      I have no problem w/ Tim Carter becoming “not the real RJ” when the show got a belated renewal. Even so, it looks like Heller & Co. left themselves lots of other unexplored but very interesting avenues to go down in case of a renewal.

      I do wonder how it is that so many conclusions & assumptions are made by a few w/ only speculation or “it would be completely novel”.

      BTW, saying you are pursuing the “monster” who did the unspeakable when it was really you is relatively common in both prisons & long term psychiatric facilities. Both populations can not bear how they would feel if they attributed the monster’s attributes to themselves. Kids do it alot, too w/ their imaginary “evil twin” who is responsible for everything unacceptable. Don’t the Germans use the term “Doppleganger” for the concept?

      • Elsmitho@ The hero as villain is not new(Angel Heart)but in a Revenge Drama and Cop Procedural, it is relatively novel plot twist. The Mentalist was born into an era of creative tv(Lost, Supernatural, Heroes, Prison Break)which relied genre mixing and plot twists but during its existence the taste for this kind has dulled. The great contemporary series(Breaking Bad, Spartacus, Wire)are more conventional character driven shows, these change in tastes allied to the universal popularity of Simon Baker’s Jane lead to a change in Red John.
        Season 3 cleared the ground for a new Red John, with Bertram Gale cleverly positioned as a Red John red herring, the William Blake poetry lead instrumentally to Timothy Carter.
        Season 4 was the experience of aporia, lost waylessness, Bruno was faced with a problem, how do I return Patrick Jane to the Show and how do I return Red John to the Show?
        He needed new Red John clues, Lorelei and the handshake, because the old Red John clues, William Blake and the Season 2 finale lead to Timothy Carter.
        Season 5 was a success and a joy. We’re now talking about suspect lists and handshakes and we’re no longer discussing tea, classical music, Craig O’Laughlin and William Blake.

        • JK
          I m tired of this thread, as are many, but just a few rejoinders.
          1. Heller would’ve had to be very dim indeed to give such broad, obvious clues to the solution of the neatly set up central question only 1 or 2 wks into Season 1. Tease the viewers,yes. He has a demonstrated talent @ that shown in Season 5. But prematurely foreclose dramatic mysteries by giving answers away so early? C’mon. This is not “Where’s Waldo?”

          2. You seem far more insistant wrt asserting your pet interpretations than I do. My being a hold out to hokey assertions is based on lack of compelling authentic data-driven realistic reasoning backing up them. Heller deliberately has witheld sufficient info for any viewer to be sure. But for a viewer to then insist that Heller must not know either is not sound reasoning.

          3. WRT your citing the “great contemporary” shows & your inclination to sort them by “genres”… I think a really well done show inspires copy-cats @ the behest of other network execs, but for the most part no matter how you slice it, most of what we are offered on fhe tube is still “baloney”.

    • I think it is the common belief that Jane was supposed to be RJ when the pilot was shot, but after the first few episodes, and seeing the loving reaction to Simon Baker’s portrayal, it changed. Yes, it would have been original, but to basically say Heller doesn’t know where he was going with Red John is premature.

      As far as Timothy Carter goes, obviously Heller didn’t want to end the show without catching Red John, so he gave us Carter. If the show got picked up, he could go ahead with what he planned for Red John, and if not, that would be the end that would somewhat satisfy the audience. And POSSIBLY, if he decided not to continue the RJ storyline, he wouldn’t have to, but I don’t think that was his intent.

      I think Heller has known what Red John would be since about halfway through season 1. The groundwork for what Red John is today has been laid throughout the series, all the way back to season 1, so what he is now is not Heller making it up as he goes along. I could list the evidence of that if you like…but one thing I want to get in…Heller always said Red John is like Moby Dick and/or Moriarty, so having Red John be a above-average serial killer wouldn’t make sense.

      • Red John’s Friends was the episode Jane v RJ changed direction. But the 2 finest episodes are non RJ episodes. Tommy (who was so clever he could have been an incredible recurring villain) and the episode Jane is blinded. Both in Season 1.

        • Yeah, after “Red John’s Friends” RJ began his mastermind ascent, and not just a smart serial killer. But the loyalty of the RJ followers were shown even before that episode. Orville Tanner knew who he was and didn’t say anything, only that RJ did the murders, but nothing else.

          I think the PJ=RJ was scrapped after the pilot (because of Simon Baker’s likability), because there is SOOOO much foreshadowing in the pilot that says RJ=PJ.

      • Rian@there is a slight paradox in your response. If Bruno knew during season one who his Red John was, why Tim Carter?
        I think Jane’s Suspect List is very interesting. The finale suggests two things a) that Red John is on the Suspect List and b)that Red John manipulated the Suspect List therefore we can infer c)that Red John has chosen to reveal himself to Patrick.
        Has anyone seen The Life of Pi? I’m interested in the tiger. In the pilot and then again the season 4 finale Patrick watches with fixed fascination nature documentaries where a beast catches its prey in gruesome detail. I have my own interpretation of this recurring motif. I’m interested in yours.
        I wonder why Virgil Minelli failed to make the list? I can only assume that the actor is not available for next season. Of all the Red John suspects only two have been associated with water Walter Mashburn and Virgil Minelli.
        I’d also like to draw your attention to something that Bruno Heller said

        Would Red John being caught necessarily mean the end of the show?
        Heller: Let me put it this way: If and when Red John is caught, there’s an interesting life dilemma for Patrick Jane and the rest. I think it would be very odd if Red John falls dead and the show stops right there. Because the natural question is: What happens next? It’s either a big story or smaller story, depending. I mean, I know. But I would be cheating on the narrative if I told you all I had planned.

        How would the capture of Red John present a ‘dilemma’ for Jane.

        And Rian@is right, in this interview Bruno confirms the legitimacy of the list.

        ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: After all that craftiness on Patrick Jane’s part, Red John is still a step ahead of him. So can we really trust that the list is accurate if Red John is so willing to confirm it?
        Bruno Heller: Yes, we can trust that list. As much as much as Red John has been one step ahead, Lorelei Martins’ intervention changed the game. So as much as Red John is trying to play from a position of strength in reality Jane has gotten a lot closer. This last episode of the season really sets us up for next season: The hunt is on, no messing about.

        But he does not confirm that Red John is on the list. He says that the list is ‘legitimate’ meaning that these individuals could be Red John and that the list brings us ‘closer’ to Red John. I’ve assumed that the list is a red herring, a Red John plant or a PJ ruse to misdirect RJ but it’s also a fair interpretation of Bruno’s comments that Red John is on the list.
        Should we be theorising about the names that we didn’t expect to be on the list; Ray Haffner, Sheriff MaCallister and Reede Smith?

        • I didn’t mean he knew WHO Red John was, but rather that he knew what Red John would turn out to be (the mastermind he is today and not just a serial killer). If Red John turns out to be Minelli or Partridge, then I would say Heller knew from early in season 1.

        • Haffner, I expected from Red Barn. But there are only 4 possible characters who can cause Jane a dilemma: Alex Jane, Danny Ruskin, Virgil Minelli and Teresa Lisbon! I’ll face the derision now.

    • Patrick being Red John would not have been original at all. We’ve had plenty of movies and TV shows with similar “gotcha” endings. One that comes to mind is the movie Identity, which happened to feature Pruitt Taylor Vince, the actor who plays JJ LaRoche in The Mentalist. Another is the horror movie High Tension. I sincerely hope they don’t go that route at all.

      • Ok @Will name me one television series where the hero was revealed to be the villain that he was pursuing?

        PJ was originally conceived as Red John. I know that many people have problems with this plot resolution which would perhaps explain why it was abandoned.
        There are plenty of reviews and interviews concerning the pilot which show that this was the case. The pilot itself foregrounds this resolution.
        Personally I’m happy that this was abandoned but the characterisation of Red John suffered as a consequence as it became unanchored, wild and bloated.

        To change the subject; do we believe that Red John is one of Patrick’s suspects?

  3. Came across this today, found it VERY interesting…
    _______________________

    Let’s face the facts: The video must have been taken approximately 1 or 2 days after Lorelei got shot (look at the tape on her left arm). When she was killed by RJ, her left arm was fully recovered. Usually this takes one week or more. Do you really think, RJ played the paramedic for Lorelei and simply killed her after she recovered…mmmmmmmmmh?
    AND Lisbon is the only person on this planet PJ told, that he wants to make a list and narrow it down.
    Furthermore Bruno Heller stated, that the whole video thing could seem like a kind of magic to some people, but in fact, there is nothing supernatural about it.

    So consequentially someone gave this information to RJ. I think, it was not Lorelei, cause she tried to kill him but failed. I think, PJ was Lorelei’s paramedic after she got shot, he asked her a favour for that and Lorelei agreed. Lorelei of cause didn’t tell him RJ’s real name, cause she wanted to take her own revenge. It was a sporting chance for PJ. If Lorelei would have been successfull by killing RJ, PJ shurely would be satisfied, too. If she fails (what surely happened), the video was his backup plan.
    I bet, that there are at least two disks. One with a RJ Video and the other one is the disk, PJ showed Lisbon. I think RJ’s disk contains a video which is also spoken by Lorelei. And I believe, it nearly contains the same tenor, than the one PJ showed Lisbon: “killing a happy memory” (I just stated in a previous post that I’m shure, PJ and RJ know each other for a long time), “a list”, that PJ “narrowed down”…etc (btw RJ’s video just has to contain MORE than 7 suspects. It’ s a prestidigitation) ;-) and he will “start to kill often” (what a big surprise) :-)! And watch PJ when he shows the video to Lisbon. He observes her all the time. Then watch Lisbons face. Sometimes it seems like she would say: “How tf could you know”.
    The reason, why she gave the information with the list to RJ is jealousy. Remember: “You’re a littel in love with him”. RJ always lured his followers by fullfilling a desire. Finally remember JJ LaRoches statement in one of the latest episodes: “Ther is a leak inside the CBI”.
    I would bet any money, that the video was a bait. PJ is smart. He suspects Lisbon as a whistle-blower.
    This would make sense. There is no more evidence for this theory, but on the other hand, ther is no evidence against it.
    ______________________

    …now I have never been a fan of Lisbon being with Red John, but if you rematch all the RJ episodes, I don’t know anymore. If you are able, watch all the RJ episodes with the idea that Lisbon isn’t 100% straight, and a few strange things are noticeable.

    • Rian@ Bruno Heller had no idea who his Red John was in either series 1, 2 or 4. If Lisbon is involved with RJ that decision was made during the writing of season 5. Sometimes you find what you’re looking for. I’m sure that if you believed in the guilt of Chow or Rigsby you’d find curious or suspicious behaviour exhibited by those characters.
      Why did Dumar try to kill Lisbon or threaten her with Red John?
      Why hasn’t Lisbon informed RJ of any of PJ’s plots?

      • We do not know when RJ apprehended Lorelei or how long he kept her alive. I think this theory though interesting is misguided.
        I favour the idea that RJ through Lorelei planted ‘the handshake’ suggestion. It would be easy for RJ to workout who would be on Jane’s list. Jane is also quite methodical, it is obvious that he would make a list.
        Through RJ’s carny connections(the Turners), RJ learned of Jane’s happy memory of the Barlow girl(the Turners had a double benefit from the murder of the Barlow girl, hurting Sean Barlow and taking the child).
        Ockham’s razor, a simple solution.
        Xenophon@ I agree with your list and your reasoning. For whatever reason, it is clear that Patrick will be unable to exact his revenge on Red John which suggests that RJ is someone Patrick likes ie no one on his list.

        • Just to be clear, that wasn’t my theory, but I found it interesting.

        • I know I keep bleating about this but the RJ list can have no serious thought attached to it when 4 suspects didn’t shake Jane’s hand. And how would RJ know whose hand Jane had shaken? Hence errors like Partridge, Stiles and Reede. I’d like to know IF this list is 100% genuine, WHEN did Jane shake those 3 hands. I think the only other person/s not mentioned which MAY give Jane some dampness for revenge are…Lisbon’s Brothers! Highly left of centre but they’ve been mentioned and would leave Jane in a bigger dilemma then just Lisbon herself.

  4. When Lorelei entered the show in the season 4 finale, didn’t Jane take the hand of a mark who he’d given a bogus reading to. This mark curiously had an unfortunate relationship with his mother and repeated his father’s obscenity referring to his mother as ” that b**** “.
    For some reason this brief encounter has stayed with me.

  5. A thought just occurred to me…Who the heck is Jane’s mother? Do we ever hear about her or what happened to her?…I have seen every episode and can’t remember once she was ever brought up. Even Lisbon’s mother and Van Pelt’s father have been mentioned more than once. Strange Jane’s mom has never been brought up.

    • I think Xenophon@wrote a little about Jane’s mother. Jane and Agent Lisbon’s mothers are mysteries and both Agent Chow’s parents remain enigmatic.
      The issue of gender in The Mentalist is interesting. The Mentalist is primarily a symbolic family drama, when the story is resolved Jane unites a broken family acting as a kind of surrogate father. The Mentalist is the story of a Father within the world of The Mentalist, the mother is a forgotten element and alas that plays into the plot too. We don’t hear about the character’s mothers because they have no role within the symbolic order of the series.
      Rigsby’s father was a violent criminal, Van Pelt’s father, a baseball coach, Lisbon’s father, an alcoholic and Jane’s a pitiless conman. Who are their mothers? Inconsequential to the world of The Mentalist.
      The obsession with dysfunctional father’s runs through US drama. I believe that it’s an inheritance of Speilberg who used this easy Freudianism as a way of organising his movies.

  6. Elsmitho@I agree with your analysis of Jane’s demeanour betraying a mother’s absence even Jane’s fetishising the family unit, suggests a boy deprived family stability and the mother bond wanting to create the ideal of such in his own life.
    That meeting of the Las Vegas mark, Jane and Lorelei always stuck in my head. Jane takes his hand then sets fire to it, the perfect image of betrayal which foreshadowed Jane’s plan to trap Red John. Such a good actor and such a small role, it just made me think about whether Bruno has a trick up his sleeves.

    • JK
      Yeah, PJ has a repetitive, but highly successful habit of going to the kid in the family of interest, to learn what the deceased was like & what had been going on just prior to the tragedy. Not only that, but he generally tries to start the healing process for the kid,as tho both he & the kid know regular grown ups are too invested in themselves to perceive what kids think / know & what kids need. The conspiring tone suggests that he lived that kind of misery & considers it a triumph to spare other kids the darkness of his “at home feelings”.

      I missed the recent bit wrt PJ burning his hand, but I do recall his flashbacks where his Dad had him demo the “healing power” of the crystal by putting his hand over the flame, showing melted wax as tho it were his burned skin, then peeling the wax off under the table to suggest instant healing from the miraculous crystal.

      Maybe having to flee like a carney flim flam man opened up all kinds of previously suppressed thoughts, he recognized some of RJ’s gambits from what he learned from his “family” where trickery & illusions are highly refined & admired. He could have possibly recognized his Dad’s unmistakable (to PJ) handiwork in RJ’s style, an “aha” moment, suggesting weaknesses PJ could exploit.

      Whatever PJ’s thoughts while deliberately burning his hand, my best guess is he was accessing new resources w/in himself to fight on, differently against RJ. No longer anywhere near willing to “give up” as RJ was insisting.

    • JK
      Yeah, PJ has a repetitive, but highly successful habit of going to the kid in the family of interest, to learn what the deceased was like & what had been going on just prior to the tragedy. Not only that, but he generally tries to start the healing process for the kid,as tho both he & the kid know regular grown ups are too invested in themselves to perceive what kids think / know & what kids need. The conspiring tone suggests that he lived that kind of misery & considers it a triumph to spare other kids the darkness of his “at home feelings”.

      I missed the recent bit wrt PJ burning his hand, but I do recall his flashbacks where his Dad had him demo the “healing power” of the crystal by putting his hand over the flame, showing melted wax as tho it were his burned skin, then peeling the wax off under the table to suggest instant healing from the miraculous crystal.

      Maybe having to flee like a carney flim flam man opened up all kinds of previously suppressed thoughts, he recognized some of RJ’s gambits froom what he learned from his “family” where trickery & illusions are highly refined & admired. He could have possibly recognized his Dad’s unmistakable (to PJ) handiwork in RJ’s style, an “aha” moment, suggesting weaknesses PJ could exploit.

      Whatever PJ’s thoughts while deliberately burning his hand, my best guess is he was accessing new resources w/in himself to fight on, differently against RJ. No longer anywhere near willing to “give up” as RJ was insisting.

  7. I know everyone is debating Janes list. So this will seem irrelevant. I’m watching “Cacklebladder”, the episode in which Danny Ruskin, Jane’s Brother-In-Law appears, there’s a rather touching scene between Jane and Danny. Jane tells Danny ” hating me is a waste of your energy, move on, find someone to love “.
    Does this seem familiar to anyone? Tim Carter perhaps?

    • No doubt it is a red herring, if its not just a coincidence.

      Danny Ruskin won’t be RJ. I like the idea of Lisbon more than him, and I hate that idea. It makes no sense in every manner. His behavior, reasoning, power, influence, and charisma are all wrong. Not trying to be harsh, but there is no way he is RJ or a disciple.

      • Tim Carter’s advice to Jane mirrors Jane’s advice to Danny Ruskin. It’s interesting and Danny isn’t a red herring because he does not reappear.
        I don’t know whether Danny Ruskin is a Red John type because I no longer understand Red John. If Red John is on the suspect list, the only feasible candidates are Bertram and Kirkland and yet we know that these guys are red herrings, with Bertram as the eternal red herring and in all likelihood, Red John being the person we least suspect, he is likely to be Mcallister.
        If Red John turns out to be Lisbon or Agent Cho as could be the case(we know of Lisbon’s parents, father, a fireman, mothers occupation I’ve forgot but we know nothing of Agent Cho’s family, we know he was a gang member, who joined the army who loves to read who knows his classics and William Blake)then Red John becomes less credulous.
        The Mentalist is popular entertainment therefore the resolution will be a soap opera-ish. Lisbon is a good candidate but an unsatisfactory one.

        • In episode 100, Officer Cunningham says to Jane ‘You wanna get the sonofabitch who killed your family right? Don’t waste your time. Find someone else to love and start a family’. Equally interesting. Ruskin won’t be RJ. But there are carny connections and I’m siding with the cliche of Alex Jane. Or Patrick has a Brother that’s never been mentioned. Wholly ridiculous but not wholly left of field if done right.

          • Xenophon, you’re quite right. I read theme as plot, meum errati. The Danny Ruskin scene and Officer Cunningham emphasise the theme of Revenge in the Mentalist.
            Red John definitely has some Carny connection and Alex Jane was alluded to but I suspect that Red John is a man of faith, not merely a manipulator of the faithful. ” There’s a higher path “.
            Alex Jane is a ‘ wicked man ‘but Red John I feel sees himself as übermensch, beyond good and evil.

            • I agree in respect to how RJ has become so Lex Luther, the chance of charlatan Alex Jane as RJ is unlikely. HOWEVER, if Heller panders to TV cliche, AJ as RJ isn’t so absurd. And let’s not forget, RJ has evolved from a rapist to a man with a sense of theatre, and PJ from fraud to impeccable yet immoral law enforcer, why can’t AJ have evolved? And as revenge is a perpetual theme it makes sense. RJ killed PJ’s family in revenge for PJ’s words. PJ is seeking revenge for said murder. RJ will now keep killing until he gets to Jane…; Who is Ahab and who is Moby Dick?

  8. Some of these questions may have already been addressed, but “vacation brain” has set in, so the musings outstrip memory precision.

    From that episode where the carney head of household has his own daughter killed for trying to escape his dominence, by giving her loyalty & creating an heir to another man, are we supposed to understand by analogy that PJ’s wife may have likewise been an “escapee” from a a dominent clan & an angry father or “Godfather” type? Doubling the insult is that Patrick likewise turned his back on his clan- leader & had the gall to be famous & successful, beating his Dad @ his own trade.
    The last straw may be that PJ & wife seemed to have made their separation from their kin absolute, so like our carney “Godfather” who had his daughter executed, could there have been a planned raid to execute PJ’s wife & child, since she was too old to just kidnap after witness her mother being slaughtered. In that case, Danny R. does make very good sense as an assasin who was readily recruited, as was Carter for red herring sexual torture & murder cases to throw investigators off the track whenever RJ wanted to, by RJ.

    The brains of the outfit still must be, im my understanding, someone who has A-V surveillance of TL’s whole unit’s work area, has the authority to command unsuspecting federal agents (@ least!) to do bad things when they think they are just carrying out orders against PJ “the psychopath”.

    • While a wonderfully thought out theory, I do re-call Danny Ruskin showing rage, upset and dismay when re-calling the deaths of the Janes and when visiting the cemetery too. Of course, RJ asking PJ if he gives up (in Season 4 penultimate episode) at said cemetery could be a clue but I feel Danny Ruskin is an unlikely candidate. The one question I have to ask is if PJ wanted RJ that much, surely he’d need to just slander him again. After all as PJ said once ‘if RJ wants me he knows where to find me’.

      • The problem with Danny Ruskin and Alex Jane theories is that both of them have this huge cavernous gaping hole.
        RJ murdered women before he murdered Jane’s wife and child!
        Why does RJ if he is AJ or DR wait until PJ insults him on air to take his revenge?
        Whoever RJ is, he is primarily a misanthropic serial killer of women who enjoys cutting throats, the feel of their blood then creating a crime scene for his own pleasure.
        Have we dismissed the list yet?
        If RJ is on the list, he can only be one of two candidates, Sheriff MCallister or Ray Haffner.

        • JK,
          My point is not to say Danny R or Alex J could be RJ. Neither is that kind of smart. As I had written earlier today, we have seen that T Carter was a go-to guy for RJ’s effort to assasinate Van Pelt, TL & Hightower. RJ did not get his own hands dirty w/ that one, yet he was definitely behind sending O’Laughlin in as his assasin.

          You have to be correct that RJ gets intense pleasure out of his ritual of killing women his own particular insane degrading perverted manner, as though he were a god, offering human sacrifices to himself “just so” , which might explain why he is so outraged w/ counterfeiters (unless he himself has sent them out as diversions. Carter may or may not had “privileges” to kill his catch, maybe just to “play w/ the prey” to enhance the terror & wait until RJ felt like taking over.

          I do not have hard evidence from the show for any of this. It is just trying to answer questions like who would most like PJ’s whole family unit wiped out?

          Who in all the world would most want to outshine PJ, outsmart him, have PJ bow his head & concede defeat?

          The timing of PJ’s wife & kid’s murder could have already been in play, but the carney conspirators were happy to have some cover, being able to implicate RJ due to PJ’s royal screw up on TV.

          Even if the “folks back home” were not homocidal, they seem like the type that don’t like their kids to get “above their raisin’”.

          RJ is a Stiles colleague who took an alternate path & I think, judging from the bredth & force of his influence, wears a mask of govt authority.

          • While all thoughts are intriguing, and I’ve always presumed Stiles’ former partner who ‘mysteriously disappeared’ may be RJ. He brought Stiles into the Visualize cult, may well have been at the Red Barn to oversee the volunteers like Hafner and when Police have investigated his ‘death’ they’ve died. Which would give reason to the FBI investigating. However, back to Alex Jane, is it absurd to render him completely void as RJ? He’s a charlatan but even those who start as scammers can go 2 paths. Redemption for Sins or Divination for believing your charade so much you become the act. Is AJ a misanthropic killer? Maybe not. But we don’t know enough to fully write him off

            • X,
              AJ certainly has the most personalized reasons for wanting to see PJ suffer a great deal & ultimately cave in defeat to Dad, who no doubt had difficulty w/ his act when his son, smarter & better looking than himself, walked away from him.
              It is possible that he then went to Visualize to boost his skill set & met a seemingly charming future RJ there. AJ has always been portrayed as pretty concrete in his thinking, not considering consequences, just “How can I get the $ from THIS old broad?”.

              AJ could have wormed his way into a romantic relationship of someone w/ federal authority & resources (AJ seeing it as if he were Aladin & the partner as the Genie in the lamp, fulfilling his wishes for him.

              But AJ carrying out such complicated plans solo does not seem plausible to me, he could not pass for long as an educated man to be promoted in in governmental ranks.

              While I am thinking about go-to people w/ “skill sets” useful to RJ, aren’t we pretty sure that Dr Linus has also become an RJ recruit by now, while in prison?

              • An interesting point of view but AJ IS smart. He concocted the scam of the dying girl and then had the cheek to justify his immorality as claiming hope was a price worth paying. If you like, hope is a ‘higher path’! Wouldn’t PJ be aware RJ was his Dad? Maybe? But then again, maybe that’s what makes AJ a reasonable choice. He is so clever that he’s been RJ under PJ’s nose for his whole life! Yes, it’s implausible I concede but it’s also possible.

                • I do think it is important to emphasise that RJ is a serial killer. The argument that RJ is AJ or DR tend to ignore this. Whatever battle of wits that RJ is engaged with PJ, his motivation is pure(purely evil, yes) unsullied by other motives such as jealousy, love, family relationships etc which is why Brett Stiles’ analysis of RJ always surprised me as if RJ could hear him, as if he was rebuking a child.
                  RJ was a serial killer before he first ran into Jane. Jane was investigating him when their paths crossed. Still despite my doubts, the Mentalist is Art, the Red John resolution will not be forensic.
                  If RJ is on the list then by my reckoning RJ is either Ray Haffner or Sherriff MaCallister. Except for Reede Smith, the others are well known, well established RJ red herrings.

                • X,
                  Well, the show has shifted to focus more on PJ’s relationship w/ his past, which was “unfinished business” while he & his wife were just trying to ignore their backgrounds & families of origin.

                  He is permitting himself to let his recall of it enter into into consciousness, ever since his ass- whuppin in Vegas, putting his hand over the flame, smiling seems to me to be symbolizing both pattern recognitions that he knows “the back door” to & possibly some signature quirk that makes him realize that his Dad’s handiwork & thirst for trouncing PJ is all over this case, highlighting strategies to entrap Dad.

                  As the General Norman Schwartcroft said,” If you know the nature of your enemy, you can use his nature against him”.

                  • The intriguing part is RJ is not just a serial killer. He’s a rapist too. He arguably loathes women. If so, is that why AJ pressurised PJ more so, into scamming a dying girl and watching her Mother squirm too? It’s another angle. I genuinely don’t see AJ as RJ but as I suggested the theory I will defend it. It’s my pet if you will haha. But nonetheless there are slight enough clues that Heller can make AJ be RJ if he so wishes.

  9. One thing I want to bring up in regard to the list of Red John suspects. I have been on site at work for the past month and had a lot of down time, and I watched most of the mentalist episodes over again, especially those of which the Red John suspects make an appearance, not to mention the Red John episodes themselves.

    I can’t bring myself to believe Bruno Heller when he says the list is accurate and that Red John is on that list. However, I am not saying Red John is not on the list, but I want to bring up the people on the list.

    Bruno and the show runners are smart people. They are great at giving red herrings and laying clues and buildups throughout the series. So I can’t believe (if the list is accurate) that they landed on some of those names. I get Stiles, Haffner, and Partridge…but the others are ridiculous.

    I can think of a dozen names off the top of my head that would make more sense to be on the list for way more reasons. And that is what has me confused. If the list is accurate, and only one of them is Red John, why not surround Red John with other viable suspects, and not people like McAllister and Smith.

    So the fact that so little effort to look back on Red John suspects and red herrings throughout the series, compel me to believe most of this list is fake. I has to be, because if not, the producers got lazy all of a sudden, and I don’t see that happening.

    Thoughts…

    • I would like to change my last post, because now the actors are swearing the list is accurate and that IS Jane’s list as well. And the vague synopsis of the first episode of season 6 proves that.

      So I guess the writers are confident with some off those odd choices in the list. Oh well, I guess that narrows it down to three in my mind.

  10. Exclusive Mentalist Postmortem: Robin Tunney Breaks Down the Big Red John Reveal

    When you learned where the finale was going, were you surprised that Jane and Lisbon would be this close to catching Red John?
    Robin Tunney: I was really surprised. I was also really shocked at some of the names on the list! They weren’t revealed to me until we shot the scene. I assumed Bret Stiles and Michael Gaston’s character would be on the list. But Xander Berkeley, who was in our second episode and Jack Plotnick — I was pretty shocked. It’ll make for a really exciting sixth season.

    Why was now the time to narrow the field?
    Tunney: I think the fans were waiting for something like this. They wanted more concrete boundaries. Red John sort of became larger than a person in the last few seasons. He became this looming, all-powerful myth. So, I think the idea that we’re [saying] they’re human beings that are specific will satiate the audience.

  11. So it’s official that Red John IS one of the seven suspects on Patrick’s list.

  12. I was soaking in the bath, reading the Aeneid(in latin, of course)after a long and unproductive day at work, watching Hannibal on the iPad when I had a moment of inspiration. Like most fans of the show I’ve been puzzled by the list. It seems unlikely that Red John is one of the seven suspects but if he was not one of the suspects, why would he feel threatened by the list, why would the list represent a great step forward in the hunt for Red John?
    Suddenly I found myself musing upon Reede Smith, his inclusion, with the other sensible Red John suspects seemed a little bizarre. Yet the devil is in the detail. What if Jane had made a little mistake in his research, easily done or an oversight? Maybe Red John has a close association with one of the suspects and his presence would be uncovered during the investigation of that suspect. I returned again to Reede Smith and interestingly Reede Smith’s partner Gabe Mancini. If Reede could have been present at all Red John crime scenes then surely his partner could have been also. Gabe Mancini who introduced Lisbon to the poker cabal, revealing how deep his contacts and friends are.
    There was something which caught my attention in Lorelei’s reading of Red John’s statement ” until you catch me or I catch you ” then I remembered Gabe Mancini chasing Jane through the law court corridors ” is it true that Gabe chased you ” , ” yes but he didn’t catch me “.

    • Never though of that, and actually I kind of like it. He does fit the description.

      However, like the Alex Jane and Jane’s brother theories, it isn’t possible anymore. The actors and show runner already said Red John IS FOR SURE on that list. So from now on I think we have to run with that, even though it makes sense not to, to some extent.

      • I don’t really want to publicise this theory because I believe it’s right.
        Bruno Heller has NOT confirmed that Red John is on the suspect list, he has said that these are reasonable suspects and that the list brings the show closer to Red John.
        a) all of the suspects are creditable Red John suspects except for Reede Smith
        b) Reede Smith is definitely NOT Red John
        c) therefore Red John must be someone closely associated with Reede Smith or someone who is closely associated with someone who is closely associated with Reede Smith
        d) Gabe Mancini
        Forget this theory as its likely to be right.

        • But don’t you think Jane would be smart enough to check Smith and Mancini separately?

          It doesn’t make sense to think he would just accept that Mancini was with him the whole time, and not check it out. So he must have been gone while a RJ murder went down (assuming, of course, the list is real, as every indication is that it is).

        • Found this in an article by the way…

          “Series creator Bruno Heller has disclosed Red John is in fact in Patrick Jane’s list.” TV Guide.

          …that leaves little room to doubt the validity that RJ is on Jane’s List.

    • Gabe Mancini and Smith or Stiles and ex Visualize partner both fall into the category of masking agents so to speak. And Bertram with District Attorney, Kirkland and Schultz. Leaving Partridge and McAllister as the only ones flying solo.

  13. I feel a little uncomfortable discussing my theory as I do not wish to spoil the forthcoming season but unfortunately I think my reasoning is sound.

    • Hi JK
      No offense, but sometimes it is good to sit w/ an idea for awhile, to walk around it, being “circumspect”, as addition aspects (pro & con) become evident.

      We have the wisdom of our Elders to advise us:

      “Discretion is the better part of valor”

      And good old Abe’s or was it BF who opined, “Better to keep silent & be thought foolish, than to open your mouth & remove any doubt”.

      I personally enjoy enjoy your contributions, but not your absolutism, including some stuff you have mis-attributed to me.

      But hey, this is supposed to be enjoyable, entertaining, mutually refreshing for all our merry Band, no?

      Insisting on being “Right” is better suited for the Kiddie Sandbox, where “King of the Hill” is a mutually agreed upon game.

      Cheers!

      • I’ve broken cover and released my foolishness upon the world lol. I will enjoy being shown to be completely misguided.
        Still I do believe that whoever Red John is, he will be an associate of Reede Smith.

  14. I’ve put the Gabe theory out there. I do regret it a little. When Craig O’ Laughlin entered the series, I put out the theory on the Mentalist Facebook site that he was a Red John mole. Lol It simply ruined the finale for everyone who contributed to the site, who in turn responded by closing then briefly suspending their site.
    Once bitten lol

  15. I have posted a theory that Red John is an associate of Reede Smith, likely to be Gabe Mancini.
    So according to my theory Red John is not on the list but his close association with Reede Smith means that he is still threatened by it.
    My argument is that six of the suspects are credible Red John suspects but one is not, Reede Smith.
    Therefore Reede Smith’s presence is crucial.
    Reede Smith is not Red John.
    Therefore Red John must be someone closely associated with Reede Smith, Gabe Mancini.
    I’m throwing it out there, find holes in it and shoot it down. I look forward to reading all of your theories.
    Elsmitho@ Si tacuisses, philosophus manisses

    • I also believe that if Red John is Gabe Mancini, it would explain that strange phrase from the disc;
      ” I’m going to start killing again, often. Until you catch me, or I catch you “.
      I think that this is a reference to Gabe Mancini’s pursuit of Patrick through the statehouse.

    • JK, I can not really judge your philosophic capacities, I can only attest to the profundity of thought, the “treasures of darkness” as it were, that come when you refrain from snatching anything you can find as a torch, bearing the anxiety while the questions come, and then lead to deeper questions, totally unsuspected, still.

      As far as Reede Smith is concerned, all I have is questions, albeit not particularly profound, since I apparently am deprived of Season V for the time being.

      But here goes:
      Since I have no idea who he is, his context, let’s pick on his name. “Reede” obviously has “Red” as in “Red John” in it, w/ 2 “e” left over. “Smith” is the most common last name in the USA (even moreso in the Salt Lake City phone book). In “Red John”, taking “John” & pairing it w/ “Smith”, gives the classic American pseudonym.

      It is the “nom de plum” that has showed up over & over again in “rent-by-the-hour” / cash only motel ledgers.

      To be frank, it was my father’s name (an immigrant family that had wished to sanitize the surname to deal w/ USA discriminatory social & employment behaviors). The classic prank t/c we received @ home was: “Is John Smith there?… Tell him Pochahontis called.”

      I went back to Wikipedia JK to get the nuance of your Latin aphorism & saw a fresh interview w/ Bruno H. In Wiki while looking for anything on Smith OR your Mancini (bupkus on either).

      Take a look @ it, if you will. Our noble auteur, who dabbles in philosophy compares RJ to the way the spectre of death’s approach keeps intruding, harming, behaving indecently & out-of-bounds. Personally, I felt annoyed, but take a look. If a story starts w/ concrete events, do not expect an audience to accept a sleight-of-hand (AKA b*******) spiritualized or condescending “you just wouldn’t understand” resolution.

    • Hmmm well anyway after profound ruminations of Elsmitho, the Gabe Mancini theory survives untarnished.
      a) Has anyone wondered why Reede Smith is on Jane’s list?
      b) Has anyone else noticed that Red John’s male accomplices except Timothy Carter belong to the same generation; Dumar, Todd Johnson and Craig O’Laughlin(and perhaps Wainwright)?
      Isn’t it curious that they seem to belong to the same generation as Reede Smith(and Gabe Mancini)?
      Strange indeed. Now for the other six suspects, you will find a ton of theories about why they are or are not Red John. Reede Smith is without fanfare and acknowledgement, not even deemed worthy of the effort of dismissing.
      Yet the absence of speculation around Reede Smith for me makes him the most interesting.

  16. What we are engaged in is fun I hope. If you consider my Gabe Mancini argument ludicrous, I throw it open to everyone to shoot it down
    (For Elsmitho@ I know you like such things, my Gabe Mancini theory is a borrowing from Derrida’s critique of Saussurean semiology and I hope an easy to follow restatement of that great lecture).

    • I have one reason it’s not Reede Smith. RJ is AJ. We didn’t SEE PJ’s list. We saw RJ’s alleged prediction of PJ’s list. He never confirmed to Lisbon if RJ was right. But Reede may have more to do with RJ. The name Reede is exactly what PJ does…reads them! But why is McAllister on there? Reasons?

  17. @JK

    Just answer me one question about your Mancini theory.

    Why would Jane investigate over 2,000 people thoroughly at where they were during RJ murders, but all of a sudden just assume Mancini was with Reede Smith the whole time? After all, they aren’t glued together, Im sure Jane put him somewhere else during one of the murders, which is why he isn’t on the list.

    The theory would make sense if RJ hadn’t listed the names, to throw Mancini off…but he did. Even so, he doesn’t know if Smith is even the guy, if he wanted to trap Mancini, he would have to know the other 6 suspects are not RJ. And in the season 6 premier synopsis, Jane is doubting his list, and is feeling out Bertram, so it doesn’t fit. Also, it has been CONFIRMED by more than one person that RJ is one of those seven suspects.

    • Rian@that was a great reply.
      Bruno Heller has not confirmed that RJ is on the list. He has stated that the list is “legitimate” and that it represents great progress in the search for RJ, that’s all.
      Secondly, Jane is fallible. Remember that he mistook Bertram as the mole when it was actually O’Laughlin.
      Why did RJ name the suspects on Jane’s list?
      Surely he did that to prove his intellectual superiority to Jane and to show Jane that he was in fact a step ahead of Jane and had been all the time, that he knows Jane’s secrets, his list, his carny life, his childhood and even his private thoughts.
      Xenophon@I don’t believe that AJ is RJ because no name on the list connects with AJ. RJ fears the list. If AJ was RJ what reason would he have to fear the list?

      • @JK
        Robin Tunney also said this season will consist of them trying to find out WHICH ONE OF THE 7 NAMES is Red John. To me, along with Heller’s comments, make it seem that RJ is one of the 7 (which is hard for me to admit, because I don’t understand how they came up with some of those names).

        As to your theory, perhaps I didn’t make myself clear, because you didn’t really answer my question, so my bad. So let me break this down so you can answer me better. What I mean is…

        FACT: Months before (just before Lorelei died), Red John knew that Jane knows they have met.

        FACT: Red John knew Jane would make a list, and narrow that down by the only factual means he could. Which is…”Who could have been at all the RJ murders.” Jane can’t go on description, because they could be false, so that is the only FACTUAL way to narrow it down, and RJ knows that.

        FACT: Red John gave a list of seven names to Jane of who could have been there. They both have great minds, and could have conceivably came up with the same seven names.

        So, in your theory, Jane put Smith on the list to hide the fact that he is investigating someone close to him (Mancini). But why didn’t he do that with Stiles? Or Haffner? He could have named someone from Haffner’s team, or Stiles’ staff, but he didn’t. He singled out Reede Smith to use as a decoy.

        In your theory, that would mean Jane doesn’t think the other names on the list are RJ, and he is specifically targeting someone in Smith’s life. From the season 6 synopsis, Jane is investigating BERTRAM, and is even doubting his list. If he was so sure, why would he doubt it? The answer is: HE WOULDNT

        To add another side as to why this theory isn’t plausible IMO…is RJ. Wouldn’t it look suspicious if Red John (who did assumably, the same research as Jane) didn’t put a high profile, possible suspect like Mancini on the list? That would basically admit to Jane that RJ is Mancini.

        I hope I made it more clear. I have other reasons why it can’t be him, but this post is already too long. Feel free to counter my argument.

        • Rian@i am not arguing that Jane knows that Mancini is Red John. I am arguing that Gabe Mancini is Red John because of the inclusion of Reede Smith on the list.
          I believe that Jane believes that his list contains the real Red John. That’s not my argument.
          I think you’ve misunderstood my theory.
          I believe that Reede Smith’s inclusion on the list is significant because he has never been a Red John suspect before in The Mentalist series nor has his character done anything to make himself suspicious.

          • Again Bruno Heller has refused to confirm that Red John is actually on the list which means that Red John is not on the list.
            After Jane shot Tim Carter(fake RJ)Bruno Heller refused to confirm that RJ was dead which meant that he wasn’t.
            I don’t wish to labour the point but Robin Tunney can be right and I can be right also. Next season will concern the investigation of the names on the list but that dies not mean that John is on the list.

            • Okay the theory makes more sense now, but there is still one glaring hole…

              Why wouldn’t Red John have put Mancini on the tape, if he was possible? Also, why wouldn’t Jane put him on the list?

              It wouldn’t be hard to make a list of 8 names instead (to include Mancini). And I am sure the seven names are the only DEFINITE people who could have been there. But I am sure Jane actually has it narrowed down even further, but these are all the ones that are POSSIBLE. It’s hard to believe both of them didn’t see Mancini as a possible suspect, and both exclude him, if it WAS possible. It makes no sense that he wasn’t vetted as well as the other 2,000 odd names.

  18. Lets suppose that Gabe Mancini is Red John.
    Should we not suppose that Gabe was able to plant an idea on a person as easily as Patrick plants red beads. That would be a problem for any theory.
    I would expect Gabe to cover his tracks and disguise his presence at crime scenes to implicate his partner perhaps but such a sham would be uncovered during an investigation which is why he’d be threatened by the list.
    I’ve always thought that the simplest solution to how John knew the names on Jane’s list is that Lorelei planted the suggestion that he and Jane had met, therefore he knew in advance who the suspects would be because in some sense he was in control of the list.
    How did Red John know that Paddy would make a list? Well list making and note taking are part of Jane’s modus operandi both Ray Haffner and Linus Wagner have suffered through Jane’s penchant for writing.
    How did John know that Jane would narrow the list to seven?
    Well when you throw a man as obsessed with Jane a crumb, he will pursue it and Red John would have known who would be the only possible suspects. When a man has been hiding for as long as Red John has, I can imagine one tends to know all the hiding places and RJ has been hiding behind these men for so long.

    • Like a magician asking someone to pick a card? He’s actually picking the card for one to choose? As Red John has to Jane? That is logical. However, how would Red John know Jane’s suspects? RJ would have had to have seen Jane shake the hands of everyone mentioned on the list (or got hold of the list a la Kirkland getting FBI to storm Jane’s room). Which means RJ would have to have stalked Jane…or be a CBI team member. Maybe. Thoughts?

      • Red John would only need to know who could have been at all the crime scenes and that is a very small list. Red John has probably hidden behind all of these characters.

    • The theory is possible, but way too unlikely.

      Until I find out the list is false (or incomplete/whatever), my money is on Haffner, Partridge, or Stiles. If the list is wrong, Im going with Minelli or Wagner.

      • But why is Reede Smith on the list?

        • Reede Smith and Kirkland have FBI connections so it makes sense both being there. Partridge is a herring. Bertram (though has a lot going for him) is a herring. But McAllister? Why is he on the list? And if finding 7 names at Red John scenes was so easy, why’s it taken Jane so long to narrow it down? Stiles hides behind other people so I’m surprised he’s exposed on the list. The list asks more questions then it answers. Who has connections with Carnies on that list? Any of them! I don’t think logically AJ is RJ, but like a dying pet I’m keeping it until the end!

          • Sheriff MaCallister had a strange encounter with Van Pelt. His inclusion is understandable and it closes a wrinkle.

          • Every character on the list has a legitimate reason for being there, except REEDE SMITH.
            So isn’t Reede’s inclusion interesting?

            • But Reede Smith may not be on PJ’s list! If that is the case, Jane won’t reveal that bombshell until the season finale. Haffner, Kirkland, Smith, Bertram and Partridge are all of the age to be at The Red Barn as newbie Visualize members. But Stiles and McAllister could be the Supervisors. Intriguing stuff. But the 7 Suspects RJ revealed are not on PJ’s list. Heller confirms this without confirming it.

              • That’s interesting.

                You believe that there are two suspect lists.

                I believe that Red John is not on the suspect list.

                And we both believe that Bruno’s enigmatic interview supports both our theories.

                Excellent. I look forward to being proved absolutely wrong next season.

                • I’m sure I won’t be correct but I believe IF the writers have a ‘proper Jane’s list’ then the following ARE on it: Minelli (which is why Jane didn’t expose his list to Lisbon), Haffner (also has CBI connections and why Jane didn’t tell Llsbon), AJ (obviously can’t tell Lisbon), Bertram (exposed by Jane and RJ so HAS to be on list), Ardiles (didn’t tell Lisbon because she guessed him!), Harken (powerful and dangerous man. Who knows where his fingers in the pies go), District Attorney (reasons even more obvious as to not expose him).
                  However, back to McAllister: he is shady and appeared in an episode involving kidnapped and murdered women a la Jason Leonard and Tim Carter….coincidence??

  19. And it sounds, from Robin Tunney’s interview that the structure for much of the season may consist of methodically “ruling out” or “ruling in” each of the suspects (list or no list, if PJ wants it done in secret, as a “hidden agenda” while appearing to investigate someone on the list, will we not all be cheering & punching the arm of the shoulder of the person next to us w/ relief?)

  20. Oh, & as far as pleasing the fans goes, I am w/ Rian wrt his stated wish awhile back that the other CBI agents’ talents are being underused, if not slighted.

    W/ Agent Cho’s observant, cynical / realistic view of govt @ various levels, crime, & distance he’s chosen, I feel he could be more capable than PJ or TL in noting the ripples in the ether, so to speak, as RJ skulks around in or outside of govt. i would very much enjoy a “humble pie” touch for PJ that is not just a quick rescue, but “you had my back the whole time I was teasing you… Wow…” Kinda melt down & regeneration (we should live so long…sigh)

    Just a fantasy that floated up over a nice grande espresso & dolce.

    • I’m sure I won’t be correct but I believe IF the writers have a ‘proper Jane’s list’ then the following ARE on it: Minelli (which is why Jane didn’t expose his list to Lisbon), Haffner (also has CBI connections and why Jane didn’t tell Llsbon), AJ (obviously can’t tell Lisbon), Bertram (exposed by Jane and RJ so HAS to be on list), Ardiles (didn’t tell Lisbon because she guessed him!), Harken (powerful and dangerous man. Who knows where his fingers in the pies go), District Attorney (reasons even more obvious as to not expose him).
      However, back to McAllister: he is shady and appeared in an episode involving kidnapped and murdered women a la Jason Leonard and Tim Carter….coincidence?? Cho as RJ??!! That would be illogical but humourous.

  21. @JK
    Reede Smith is on the list because he IS A POSSIBILITY. It’s no more absurd than McAllister being on it. These 7 (if the list is genuine; which it is I think) are the only ones who could have bee at all RJ murder sites. The list is not taking into account behavior and appearance. THAT is why Smith is on the list, along with McAllister.

    @JK
    Also, how does McAllister have a good reason to be on the list while Smith doesn’t? McAllister is older than RJ supposedly, and he is in a lower position of power. Smith is more plausible than him. He is in the FBI, has more power. I know he is fatter than RJ should be, but he could have gained some, IDK. But to say McAllister is plausible while Smith is not, based on that one little scene, is ridiculous. And thats coming from someone who thinks McAllister could be RJ.

    As far as the list goes, my gut says it is either McAllister, Haffner, Stiles, or Partridge.

    • Smith, Kirkland, and Bertram are completely dismissed in my opinion as being RJ. McAllister is close too, but not yet, he had a creepy vibe, but I am close to putting him on the dismissed side.

      Bertram = Red herring, and based on the season 3 finale…it can’t be him it you think hard enough.

      Kirkland = I have a pet theory that he USED to work for RJ, and is now looking for him for revenge/redemption/protection. And I think he and Jane will eventually align together to catch RJ. Which will cause a rift between Jane and Lisbon.

      Smith = Self explanitory.

      McAllister = Same as Smith, but he has a creepy vibe I can’t shake.

      So thats my breakdown. THOUGHTS….

      • Partridge can be dismissed due to being a herring since pilot episode. Bertram IS the most possible but the herring of herrings. Smith and McAllister: Interesting and left of centre. Kirkland? Herring. Stiles? Plausible but Jane thinks he can’t hurt a fly. Haffner? Most likely on list but too logical?? Besides, Jane’s run rings around Haffner before. RJ would NOT permit that.

        • @X
          I am of the opinion that Partridge is TOO MUCH of a red herring, and it wouldn’t surprise me if he isn’t RJ. They have laid the groundwork, just depend how the show runners want it to pay off.

          @X
          Haffner fits every piece of RJ information we know, not to mention he is a good actor, and can pull it off. But the way Jane got his team to fall apart bothers me.

    • MaCallister in the world of The Mentalist is legitimate RJ suspect because of his ” creepy vibe ” and his seeming attempt to abduct Van Pelt and there were MaCallister as Red John theories before his appearance on the list.
      Reede Smith has in comparison done nothing to bring suspicion upon himself. Is there a serious Red John theory about Reede Smith other than my own?
      Bruno Heller has given one interview about the suspect list, his words have been interpreted by some writers as confirming RJ is on the list but he does nothing of the sort, he states that the list is “legitimate” and the RJ suspects are “credible” and that next season will be about the investigation of the suspect list but he does not confirm that Red John is on the list(which means that he definitely isn’t on the list).

      • @JK
        How does Red John strike you as a person that would abduct a woman in daylight, not far from help, in a small town where the CBI is conducting an investigation? AND he didn’t even blitz attack (which is what he does). He APPROACHED her to talk, he didn’t sneak up behind her and surprise grab her. If you believe RJ would be THAT stupid, you gotta watch the show again.

        @JK
        As far as Reede Smith, if I go back and watch the episode he is in, I bet 1000$ I can find something as strong as McAllister’s creepy vibe. Or even his supposed “abduction” attempt of Van Pelt, to give weight to him being a RJ suspect.

        • Hi Rian, I wasn’t making the case for MaCallister, I was simply emphasising that MaCallister is a “credible” RJ suspect.

        • From the one widely dispersed interview that Bruno has given about Jane’s suspect list, it would appear that RJ is not on the list.
          Any RJ theory must account for why RJ feels threatened by the list.
          I have speculated that RJ must be a close associate of someone on the list and I believe that character is Reede Smith.

          If RJ is not on the list how would you understand the list?

          • Here’s a thought: If there is an alternative list, whoever is on that list, at this time, is irrelevant. Jane may be so surprised at how WRONG RJ is that, like Mr King speculates, PJ realises there’s a reason for one of those 7. So postponing his own list to investigate RJ’s. As Jane told Bosco ‘When RJ gives you evidence, it’s not what does it mean but why’s he giving it to you?’. The handshake remark will be a red herring remark in the end. Hence why Lorelei returns in Season 6. As officially confirmed. Thoughts?

          • Here are Bruno’s own words on janes suspect list. Does he confirm that Red John is on the list?

            ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: After all that craftiness on Patrick Jane’s part, Red John is still a step ahead of him. So can we really trust that the list is accurate if Red John is so willing to confirm it?
            Bruno Heller: Yes, we can trust that list. As much as much as Red John has been one step ahead, Lorelei Martins’ intervention changed the game. So as much as Red John is trying to play from a position of strength in reality Jane has gotten a lot closer. This last episode of the season really sets us up for next season: The hunt is on, no messing about.

            • We can trust that list is a suspects list but hang on: Ellis Mars, Van Pelt, Her Dad, Rigsby, Sarah the DA, Charlotte Jane’s ghost…we can trust what I wrote us a RJ suspects list too. Heller has a great play on words.

            • I do hope that Heller’s own words reinforce my point that Red John is not on Jane’s suspect list.

              Red John is threatened by the suspect list, why would he fear it, if he is not actually on it?

              Anyway I’ve put my head above the parapet with my Gabe Mancini theory which I believe is the only logical Red John theory. SHOOT IT DOWN! If you can.

              • I do have one question, herring or not; IF Kirkland wants RJ for himself, why kill Leonard? He wasn’t to know Jane was on his way.
                Here are my list of people who could be worried about the list:
                Judge Manchester in regards Bertram (poker clan)
                Mancini due to Smith
                Stiles for his former Visualize partner if alive.
                The FBI Agent undercover in O’Loughlin episode (he was easily caught out by Jane. Too easily) would be concerned of Haffner. Similar age, Vizualise connections possibly at Red Barn
                District Attorney with regards Kirkland AND Partridge as it’ll open many cans of worms and exposure
                But who’s afraid of aging McAllister? A small town Sheriff who’s reminiscent of the Sheriff killed in Todd Johnson episode? Unless McAllister exposes AJ (don’t laugh too hard. It is just my ridiculous theory) somehow. Dare I ask but thoughts??

      • Agreed. Heller has done nothing more then confirm RJ is STILL not on the list. Was there a McAllister as RJ theory? I’ve never seen it. But if anyone in the list has a strong RJ connection McAllister is it. Bertram and Kirkland want to bring down RJ for their careers. Reede may be working for Kirkland (FBI connections), Haffner is working for Stiles so it leaves Partridge (please no. If so, bring in Ellis Mars!!) and McAllister working for who? But the irony is Stiles knows who RJ is. And RJ has Visualize and Carny connections too. Back to the drawing board!!

  22. Overall, what can we expect next season?
    Heller: Up until now if you’re comparing it to Moby Dick, which is one of the analogies I used to describe the length of the chase, next season the whale has been sighted and they’re in the small boats and chasing the whale. It’s much faster paced, more thrilling, more action, more surprises. We’ll still be delivering those mysteries every week. But just as you see with the last episode of the season, there’s no more tracking and more chasing.

    I do believe that Bruno is confusing Moby Dick and Jaws.

    • The problem with Moby Dick is the whale never gets caught. Looks like Jane shall be seeking a vengeance he’ll never have. But RJ is not on the list. On a point about Mancini…wouldn’t Jane be aware of Lorelei’s phrasing and the connection? The Hunt for Red John has become silly so Heller will need to pull something out the hat. But how will Lorelei come back to life?? Theories?

      • X,
        How about this for “more” Lorelei.
        Personally, it feels silly & stupid, but I suppose that qualifies it for “carney” callibre manouvering or Kristina Frye “other worldly” stuff. Maybe Lorelei’s persona will start talking out of a medium’s mouth. Maybe even her “personality” transplanted into Kristina Frye’s “lights on but nobody’s home” body.

        The last we saw K. Frye she was sitting around in a semi-catatonic state, right? insisting to PJ that she was speaking to him from “beyond the grave”, while her physical body called her a liar by continuing to give vital signs indicative of ongoing life?The dialogue about her suggested that she would be sent to a gentle therapeutic environment where she might or might not choose ever to do business w/ “the here and now” again.

        Since, as you have again recently pointed out, RJ enjoys mixing terrorizing women as part of his sexual fetishing, and she had come w/ a stated agenda of persuading him to feel his inner goodness, basically selling herself short wrt every feeling, fear, belief & desire that she was aware of, to pay the price of being the martyr, but apparently RJ did not get his juices rising w/ a martyr’s “I understand completely,” permissive response to his presumed physical, sexual, and mental torture. So the transaction of making her a “perfect sacrifice” to his “fancied” uber-worthiness, cleverness, deserviness (all @ heart a futile fierce child-like effort to undo having felt the very opposite…. Think of Lady Macbeth scrubbing her hands once she becomes queen, “Out! Out! Damned spots….!”) just could not be cashiered. But Kristina’s sense of self quite rightly decided that her ideas were way too costly & basically diffused like dandilion seed when blown on. RJ may have left himself a hypnotic “cue” though, a portal he has conditoned for easy access to suggestible parts of her mind.

        WRT Lorelei, a couple more possibilities: she had a twin ?Maybe the dead twin’s body was carted out a 2nd time to pass as hers? I am sure the Sci-Fi afficiandos can build on that theme, cryogenics, et al.

        If she starts showing up in PJ’s dreams, real as life, then it is likely that he has become a hypnotic subject and is being cued to release data bit by bit.

        Finally, wrt will PJ get satisfaction or not, is that the same as vengeance. Yes or No?

        He has a
        de facto mission of ridding Nantucket of the man-eating shark, NYC of the Son of Sam serial killer, the IRS of whoever ordered taxpayers’personal information be spread on the internet & listed on their political rivals’ websites.

        the author of “Jekyll & Hyde” and “The Portrait of Dorian Gray” said,
        “There are two great tragedies in life.
        One is never getting what you always wanted.
        The other is getting it.”

        So, PJ very likely understands & expects that the demise of RJ is necessary, but not sufficient to proceeding in a relatively balanced, healthy, ( let us hope) honest, meaningful, creative, loving & giving (as opposed to “house rules” of despising & taking of his carney upbringing) direction.

        BTW, for what it is worth,Psychosis can be life-saving if one is forced to live in malevelent enough circumstances….it can be sort of a crust between your tender ailing mind & say, Cinderella’s evil step-family. Consider the tiny helpful singing birds & mice in the Disney verson. Better to have a conversation w/ them…..

  23. RIGSBY; did Mancini really throw a bottle at you?
    JANE; yes he did and then he proceeded to chase me through the statehouse but…failed to catch me!

    LORELEI(reading Red John’s statement); I’m going to start killing again, often, until you catch me or I catch you.

    • Being careful that other websites are not misinterpreting Heller’s words it’s been confirmed Season 6 like Season 3 will be serialized. And a RJ chase. CBI and/or Jane WILL find Red John. The Premiere dismisses one off the list. One question about Mancini: he has obvious anger issues so surely he wouldn’t have the calm of thought required for RJ? Kirkland is the logical RJ if RJ is on the list. Which I doubt.

      • I think that there’s a problem with psychologising Red John because Red John as a character does not exist. He is thus an enigma and his motivations are as inscrutable as they are insidious.

        Red John is a hot head, he murdered Patrick’s family and Panzer in rage.

        Gabe Mancini is my theory. I like the argument, it’s elegant but it is perhaps misguided. I just haven’t read a better argument. Bertram, Brett Stile, Partridge and Haffner are well rehearsed and frankly uninteresting arguments.
        Red John knew who Patricks suspects were long before Kirkland broke into Jane’s chamber and Leonard did not know Kirkland but we know that Leonard has seen and worked directly for Red John.
        Sheriff MaCallister seems to have a liking for red heads and apparently tried to abduct Van Pelt but the RJ we know has his victims presented to him like a diner in a restaurant.
        Reede Smith just doesn’t belong on the list which makes his inclusion interesting.

        Anyway at the risk of falling prone to Participant Fallacy, lets revisit Jane’s observation of Gabe Mancini’s temper ” your veins are throbbing like some weird underwater creature, if that’s not anger I’d go to see a Dr “. Can you see two Red John references here?

        • @JK

          Just one thing I want to point out. Saying “McAllister apparently tried to abduct Van Pelt” is ridiculous. Not because you are wrong, but because that scene could be interpreted half a dozen OTHER ways, so to say that is completely assumptive.

          Secondly, Red John did NOT murder Jane’s family or Panzer out of rage. He did it out of hubris. Not because he was angry, it was because he couldnt allow his name to be slandered without punishment. I am not saying this just to disagree, because I do have evidence to back it up…

          Jane and Panzer both insulted RJ on TV, true, but RJ was no way in rage. He made sure Jane’s family was asleep before killing them, and made sure Panzer was alone and not being watched by the police. He was CAREFUL. He even had the presence of mind to write Jane a cryptic note and make the smiley face. That is not someone in RAGE, it is someone who is CAREFUL…

          I took a few criminal pathology classes my sophomore year, and one of the first thing you learn about is motives. In a rage killing, a person will not have the presence of mind to do what RJ did (as listed above). Rage is much like a compulsion to where you have to get it out now, and planning and consequences go out the window, almost as if you cant control it. Now tell me how RJ showed those signs?

          To further my point…Kristina Frye. She did almost the same thing (talked about him as if she knew him). And he had the presence of mind to mind fu*k he all the way home.

          So…sorry to say, but the RJ statement you made is false, but I get where you are coming from. But if you actually think about it, it doesnt make sense.

          • The argument that I was making is that almost any statement one can make about Red John seems valid because he is formless and insubstantial. There isn’t a fixed and definitive interpretation of Red John’s motives.
            Is hubris not itself rage? Before Shakespeare scholars redefined the word as meaning overweening pride, for the Greeks it meant violence or violent emotion. Greek literature begins with the Iliad and Achilles “wrath(menein)”his pride turns to destructive rage.

            • Yes thats true, but in current context, “hubris” and “rage” are different.

        • @JK

          Sorry for the long post, but now I will get to the Mancini part. So based on my last post, Mancini’s semi-incontrollable anger wouldnt be part of RJ’s pathology, it makes no sense. Haffner is WAYYYY more logical in this regard. He took Jane’s outbursts well, but you got a sense he was more angry on the inside, also, he knew that Jane was going to try to out him within the first 20 mins. Mancini and Smith were stupid to not believe the same.

          ALSO…there is still a WIDE hole in your theory that you haven’t addressed when asked (POSTED BELOW)…….

          Why wouldn’t Red John have put Mancini on the tape, if he was possible? Also, why wouldn’t Jane put him on the list?

          It wouldn’t be hard to make a list of 8 names instead (to include Mancini). And I am sure the seven names are the only DEFINITE people who could have been there. But I am sure Jane actually has it narrowed down even further, but these are all the ones that are POSSIBLE. It’s hard to believe both of them didn’t see Mancini as a possible suspect, and both exclude him, if it WAS possible. It makes no sense that he wasn’t vetted as well as the other 2,000 odd names.

  24. @JK

    Sorry for the long post, but now I will get to the Mancini part. So based on my last post, Mancini’s semi-incontrollable anger wouldnt be part of RJ’s pathology, it makes no sense. Haffner is WAYYYY more logical in this regard. He took Jane’s outbursts well, but you got a sense he was more angry on the inside, also, he knew that Jane was going to try to out him within the first 20 mins. Mancini and Smith were stupid to not believe the same.

    ALSO…there is still a WIDE hole in your theory that you haven’t addressed when asked (POSTED BELOW)…….

    Why wouldn’t Red John have put Mancini on the tape, if he was possible? Also, why wouldn’t Jane put him on the list?

    It wouldn’t be hard to make a list of 8 names instead (to include Mancini). And I am sure the seven names are the only DEFINITE people who could have been there. But I am sure Jane actually has it narrowed down even further, but these are all the ones that are POSSIBLE. It’s hard to believe both of them didn’t see Mancini as a possible suspect, and both exclude him, if it WAS possible. It makes no sense that he wasn’t vetted as well as the other 2,000 odd names.

    • I cannot address the argument ” why wouldn’t Red John….?” Because I believe that such arguments involve discussions of the Red John psychology and I believe that those arguments are fundamentally in error.
      For example
      Why did Red John kill one group of copyists then employ the services of a copyist?
      No need to answer this as there are many wrinkles and paradoxes about Red John’s activities. The Gabe Mancini argument anticipates a plot twist similar to Craig O’Laughlin revelation as the RJ insider when Patrick sat opposite Bertram.

      • Yes you can to an extent. There is no good reason at all why 2 different people with great minds (Jane/RJ), who are narrowing down a list of suspects, would leave out a suspect. The list doesnt have to be 7 names. It could be 8 or 14 names. The fact is only 7 people could have been at every RJ crime scene. It’s pretty simple.

        So you are telling me Jane and Red John, who are both doing SEPARATE research, decided to leave out Mancini, and put Smith on the list? It makes no sense. If it was just Jane, the theory would make sense. But it’s not. It’s both of them.

        I dont want you to think I am bashing your theory to smite you, but I just think a theory should make sense from the information we know…and this one doesn’t. I think in the past people have mentioned Alex Jane or Jane’s brother as possible RJ suspects (which I found utterly stupid), but I didn’t say they were wrong (outside of my own opinion). But in this case, it actually doesnt make any sense from either side.

  25. Sometimes I wonder whether my agnosticism about the whale leads me to doubt his presence when he appears before me and RJ is simply Kirkland, he has been watching Patrick since his early days in the CBI, he killed Leonard, he broke into Jane’s lockup and he’s shaken hands with Jane lol.
    He’s too obvious, he must be a red herring, he’s Lorelei’s sister’s vengeful boyfriend. What an amazing double bluff it would be if he was Red John.

    • Not gonna lie, if Kirkland is RJ I would be disappointed, but it is possible. As I have stated, I have my own pet theory on him that I am running with. Partly because I cant understand why he asked the man if he recognized him. If it was RJ I dont know why it would matter, or if he would even need to ask.

      That is why I think he is someone from the past, because looks can change with age. And he was connected to the woman’s home with Lorelei’s sister, and would mave maybe come into contact with him way back when.

      • Not trying to beat a dead horse here, but my Kirkland theory is one that actually makes sense. It has no holes, other than the fact it is a THEORY, based on what we know as of now.

        • Rian@I want my Gabe theory to be questioned.

          Your main objection is that RJ and Jane both reduced their respective lists to seven and both lists left Gabe Mancini off.
          Here is my response;
          a) RJ “anticipated” Jane’s list because he knew already those people who could have been at the crime scenes,
          How, because RJ has hidden his presence at the crime scenes behind at least one of those suspects, perhaps more
          With all you know about RJ do you think that it would be so easy to find him?
          b) Jane has made mistakes before, mistakes that RJ has tricked him into making. We know that somehow this is a trick, part of RJ’s scheme, we just don’t understand it yet.

          I do not understand why Leonard didn’t recognise Kirkland, if Kirkland is RJ as Kirkland has changed very little in appearance.
          I do favour the theory of Kirkland as Lorelei’s sister’s boyfriend. Leonard may have only met him in passing therefore it would be perfectly understandable if he failed to recognise him. If he was RJ the hospital scene with Leonard would have been quite different, surely he would have needed only to reveal his identity to ensure Leonard’s, an accolyte under the spell of the master, would have willingly taken poison?
          Kirkland feels like a red herring. He’s too obvious.

          Red John is not on the suspect list!!!!!
          The suspect list is itself a red herring.
          Patrick ‘ has taken a step closer ‘ (Bruno’s own words concerning the suspect list)which means that Red John is an associate of someone on the list.

          I believe that person to be Gabe Mancini but there ought to be other possibilities out there. I’ve always liked Judge Lancaster(an associate of Bertram’s)” Teresa you are so naive”.
          Bruno Heller could be doing a double bluff but I think that it would be wise not to take the list at face value.

          • Who can we dismiss?
            Kirkland: Wasn’t recognized by Leonard. Didn’t shake Jane’s hand pre-Lorelei statement (she was incarcerated at the time)
            Haffner: Gave his position of visualize member far too easily to Lisbon. Jane’s ran rings around him before.
            McAllister: Appeared in The Mentalist when Jane was originally Red John
            Reede: He has no physical appearance or characteristics of RJ to be on the list.
            Stiles: Too old. But has the influence. I believe his Visualize founding partner could be Red John ( the one who died but was never found)
            Bertram: Physical appearance aside, a good RJ choice logically. But RJ won’t be logical
            Partridge: Give me a reason WHY he’s Red John!!!
            So there you have it, everyone hides behind the 7 listed and Alex Jane will be Red John! Daft? Yes. Illogical? Certainly! Unexpected? Definitely!

          • Okay that time you explained it better, but I still dont see it. I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

  26. Hubris is the progeny of anger, wrath and rage. The greater the vanity the greater the rage when it is offended. Hasn’t Gabe Mancini twice outsmarted Patrick, and when his first plan fell through due to Jane’s red bead, wasn’t there a plan b. already in motion to spirit Lorelei to a FBI prison?
    Very cunning. The hothead never gave his hand away.

    • Who can we dismiss?
      Kirkland: Wasn’t recognized by Leonard. Didn’t shake Jane’s hand pre-Lorelei statement (she was incarcerated at the time)
      Haffner: Gave his position of visualize member far too easily to Lisbon. Jane’s ran rings around him before.
      McAllister: Appeared in The Mentalist when Jane was originally Red John
      Reede: He has no physical appearance or characteristics of RJ to be on the list.
      Stiles: Too old. But has the influence. I believe his Visualize founding partner could be Red John ( the one who died but was never found)
      Bertram: Physical appearance aside, a good RJ choice logically. But RJ won’t be logical
      Partridge: Give me a reason WHY he’s Red John!!!
      So there you have it, everyone hides behind the 7 listed and Alex Jane will be Red John! Daft? Yes. Illogical? Certainly! Unexpected? Definitely!

      • As much as I dont want to admit it, Partridge is a viable RJ suspect. I dont want to make a list of why he is (you can find that on the RJ list page), but as long as the Partridge behavior we see is not the real him, they could pull it off.

        • Alex Jane as Red John has the same percentage call as the other possible candidates…it’s 50/50 haha. Do I truly believe it? No. But I suggested it first and it’s my pet theory. If Kirkland wants Red John why did he not obtain his name from Leonard first? Or try to? If he’s after revenge? And Lisbon’s Mum was killed by a drink driver who’s never caught…possible RJ tie in later??

      • Lol. I agreed with everything, a brilliant brief summary of the state of play until the last sentence! Haha

        • Alex Jane as Red John has the same percentage call as the other possible candidates…it’s 50/50 haha. Do I truly believe it? No. But I suggested it first and it’s my pet theory. If Kirkland wants Red John why did he not obtain his name from Leonard first? Or try to? If he’s after revenge? And Lisbon’s Mum was killed by a drink driver who’s never caught…possible RJ tie in later??

          • Kirkland is a puzzle indeed.

            If he’s Red John, why did he not identify himself to Leonard and why did Leonard not recognise him?”

            If he’s pursuing Red John, why did he kill Leonard before he could reveal Red John’s identity?

            • Kirkland has to be part of RJ’s network. Hence why he didn’t ask for RJ’s name (so the viewer is in the dark) and to break in and check how far Jane has got in RJ pursuit. Or, Kirkland believes Jane is RJ (hence FBI interested in Jane at episode 100) and will try to frame him. But I have one question on the 7 Suspects…has anyone noticed, on-screen, Jane hasn’t shaken hands with: Partridge, Stiles, McAllister and Reede!! So really, why are they in the list???
              Thoughts?

  27. It was just said that Red John will be caught mid-way through the season…or more exactly “before the calendar year ends.” So that should put it at (roughly) episode 13-14 when they find Red John.

    I like this a lot. I always wanted to see the dynamic when the team knows who Red John is, but they dont have proof and cant do anything yet. This news made me look forward to the season even more.

    That sure makes it sound like the list is pretty legit. Especially since most of the episodes will deal with Red John, and the first episode will knock one name off the list.

    • Kirkland has to be part of RJ’s network. Hence why he didn’t ask for RJ’s name (so the viewer is in the dark) and to break in and check how far Jane has got in RJ pursuit. Or, Kirkland believes Jane is RJ (hence FBI interested in Jane at episode 100) and will try to frame him. But I have one question on the 7 Suspects…has anyone noticed, on-screen, Jane hasn’t shaken hands with: Partridge, Stiles, McAllister and Reede!! So really, why are they in the list???
      Thoughts?

      • Because it’s Haffner haha

        But really, I dont know why they didnt use suspects that we saw shake Jane’s hand.

        I think Haffner WAS apart of RJ network, but not anymore (for a number of possible reasons).

  28. يNot gonna lie, if Kirkland is RJ I would be disappointed, but it is possible. As I have stated, I have my own pet theory on him that I am running with. Partly because I cant understand why he asked the man if he recognized him. If it was RJ I dont know why it would matter, or if he would even need to ask.

    That is why I think he is someone from the past, because looks can change with age. And he was connected to the woman’s home with Lorelei’s sister, and would mave maybe come into contact with him way back when.

    • Kirkland is a puzzle.

      He is interested in the Red John investigation(episode 100) but he has no interest in unveiling Red John’s identity.
      I am certain that RJ when he is unveiled will surprise us, Kirkland as a suspect seems too telegraphed.

    • Why did Kirkland kill Leonard?

      It wasn’t a revenge murder which is something one would expect the former abusive boyfriend of Lorelei’s sister to do to one of her murderers.

      Kirkland appeared to be silencing Leonard.

      If Kirkland was Red John or a friend of Red John, why didn’t he identify himself as such to Leonard?

      Kirkland is a puzzle.

      • Ridiculous thought alert…Kirkland is Patrick Jane and Jane is Red John!!! A la Face Off. Sort of!!

  29. Despite my Red John as Gabe Mancini theory, I do hope that RJ is yet to appear in the Show as the potential RJs except for Malcolm Macdowell are quite limited performers. The success of Bradley Manning as the Red John pretender shows that RJ requires a fine actor to perform him, an actor capable of completely engrossing the audience in the role and who is also able to scene steal and dominate Simon Baker. Remember RJ has to have the kind of charasma that corrupts on contact, that is capable of turning people into dark and frightening versions of themselves and who people literally want to die for, other than Malcolm Macdowell that isn’t any actor on the suspect list. I’m hoping that Kevin Spacey currently switching to the stage can be engaged or perhaps John Malcovich or maybe Dane Dahaan or Hugo Weaving.
    I just know that personally I’d be very disappointed if such a pivotal role was handed to Jack Plotnick, Robert Corrigan or to be frank any of the actors on the list(save perhaps Malcolm Macdowell).

    • Ridiculous thought alert…Kirkland is Patrick Jane and Jane is Red John!!! A la Face Off. Sort of!!
      As you know Mr King, I’ve clamoured for Malkovich or Patrick Stewart to be RJ IF McDowell isn’t. But that scene in Season 3 finale will be tough to beat. It was perfection.

      • Except Lorelei has met RJ. But incredibly, the Face Off idea COULD still work although it’s highly absurd.

        • I fancy my Gabe theory but I am intrigued by Kirkland.

          He is not Red John as Leonard did not recognise him and as Kirkland’s appearance has changed so little(unless Red John wears some kind of mask)there is no reason at all why Leonard would not be able to identify him as Red John if he was in fact Red John.

          So we know that Kirkland is not Red John but has some kind of connection to Red John.
          He is not hunting Red John but he feels threatened by the hunt for John.
          His lack of interest in questioning Leonard would suggest that he already knows who Red John is.
          That means that two of the suspects, Brett Stiles and Kirkland know the real identity of Red John.
          Bertram is connected to Kirkland.
          The suspect list is curious. Could it be that the list represents Red John’s friends, his powerful network of insiders and helpers?

          • Unless Kirkland believes Jane to be Red John. Hence the remark in episode 100…
            Jane ‘Do I know you?’
            Kirkland ‘No. But I know all about you’
            And Darcy believing Jane was connected to RJ…original thoughts or ideas from FBI Agents Schultz and Kirkland? And again, Stiles knowing who RJ is and telling Jane as much, is such a gaping storyline chasm. Of the 7 on that list only Bertram makes sense. But how does one villain have so much power and such devotees to the cause? All willing to die for RJ but why? Only Stiles is on the list to command such trust from strangers. Puzzling indeed. Which brings me one question about Gabe….what can he offer? Bertram can offer criminal immunity and Stiles can offer belief of a better place in your mind. Nobody else can offer anything else on that list. Or off it.

            • Red John bewitches, I don’t think he actually offers his followers, friends and devotees anything of real substance. If the handsome and well connected Gabe Mancini(also recall that in ‘Red Beads’ that he outsmarted Jane twice) does turn to be Red John, I am sure that he will bewitch. Gabe Mancini is also attracted to Teresa Lisbon and he’s not on the list. I am still insisting, perhaps foolishly, that Red John is not on the list but that list will somehow lead to Red John. Lol the list is Red John adjacent.

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