‘The Mentalist’ Season 5 Details – ‘Dark’ Jane & Red John Reveal

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the mentalist season 5 The Mentalist Season 5 Details   Dark Jane & Red John Reveal

[WARNING - THIS POST CONTAINS THE MENTALIST SEASON 4 SPOILERS!!!]

After six “relaxing” months in Las Vegas, The Mentalist season 4 finale brought Patrick Jane closer to Red John than ever before – or so he thought (again). Though Red John may still be at large, the CBI now has Lorelei, one of his accomplices, in custody. Will Jane be able to “make her sing like a bird” next season?

Speaking with Entertainment Weekly, series creator Bruno Heller discussed what’s in store for Patrick Jane (Simon Baker) in season 5, the dark turn the series will take next season, the move to Sunday night, how some fans will be disappointed when Red John is finally revealed, and much more.

With Lorelei (Emmanuelle Chriqui) firmly in the grasps of the CBI, fans are waiting to see how Jane will get information about Red John out of her. Even though Red John’s accomplices don’t typically survive capture, Heller says he “hopes” she’ll stick around for a bit next season – hopefully long enough to get Jane closer to Red John.

Perhaps hinting at Patrick Jane’s interrogation techniques, Heller says that fans will be seeing a darker side of Jane in season 5:

…it’s not that Jane is No More Mr. Nice Guy, but we’re certainly going to see a little more of that hard darker side of him.

The show is not going to turn into a much darker show, but that character will show more of those colors. We’re getting closer to the meat of what the show is about.

That being said, don’t expect to see Red John officially revealing himself anytime soon. If anything, it will be at least two more seasons before that actually occurs. Being completely aware of how temperamental some series fans can be, Heller says that he knows people will be disappointed when Red John’s true identity is finally revealed:

…if season 5 we just opened a door and said “tah-dah!” and it was some mid-range actor, that would be disappointing. The trick is going to be — and this is coming — bringing the audience along and making them second guess themselves and ask, “Is that him? Is that him?” Red John ultimately is just a man — whenever you see the great criminals reduced to the flesh it’s sort of disappointing. I have two seasons or so to make it come true. I can guarantee that people will be disappointed.

You might already have seen him.

the mentalist season 51 The Mentalist Season 5 Details   Dark Jane & Red John Reveal

When it comes to talk about future seasons, one has to touch upon CBS’ recent decision to abruptly cancel CSI: Miami without providing the producers enough time to end the series appropriately. Fortunately, The Mentalist doesn’t appear to be anywhere near the position that CSI: Miami was when it was canceled. But if it does happen, Heller promises that they’ll know well enough in advance to make sure closure is provided for fans.

It’s the job of myself and everybody else on this show to keep it working as well as it does to ensure we get that final arc. A show that’s been running this long with the degree of success it’s had, we’ll know well in advance of that sort of outcome and we’ll adjust accordingly. I’m not concerned about that.

Of course, making the move to Sunday night may still have fans worried about what may happen to their favorite series. Thanks to Sunday night no longer carrying the terrible programming stigma that it has in the past, Heller has no worries about viewers finding The Mentalist in his new timeslot.

If I thought making a fuss would make any difference then I would feel differently. But there’s aspects of this job you don’t have control over. Our audience will follow us and hopefully we’ll also find a different audience than we found on Thursday nights.

While we won’t for sure know how The Mentalist will do on Sundays nights, CBS’ decision to move the series to the weekends represents their intention to expand their schedule to include compelling series across the entirety of the broadcast week, instead of solely focusing on certain key weekday programming.

So make sure that your viewing schedules are adjusted accordingly, as Patrick Jane takes on Sunday nights this fall.

-

Follow Anthony on Twitter @anthonyocasio

Source: Entertainment Weekly

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  1. WOW…that was a great finale…especially the last 5 mins. My main 2 suspects are not on it, and the 7 are some I did not expect at all. Damn that was crazy.

    • The premise of Season 6 will be why those 7 suspects are on the list. And maybe, just maybe, find out who Red John is. Did Patrick and Alex Jane shake hands after agreeing to scam the dying girl? I can’t remember. But that’s the main negative (Lorelei’s handshake admission) to my very original proposal the Alex Jane is Red John

      • It is fun trying to second guess Bruno Heller and his team of scribes.

        Here is my solution to Red John’s mind reading of Patrick.
        a) Red John had Lorelei plant the suggestion that he and Patrick had shaken hands.
        b) Red John thus already knew which acquaintances of Patrick’s would become suspects.
        c) Red John knew of Patrick’s happy memory through Pete Turner(?)who fingered Sean Barlow as Red John to throw Jane off the scent.
        d) Red John’s showmanship has placed his secret identity in jeopardy because Patrick now knows that Red John is someone close to him
        e) Red John will try to implicate someone on the list which leads to his unveiling
        f) Red John is so confident that he can outwit Patrick that he’s actually placed himself on the list
        g)If Red John is on the list, my money is on the Sherriff.

        • Only 3 people on the list have the connections and authority to find out who Jane has met: Stiles, Bertram and Haffner. Kirkland may have dine but him breaking into Jane’s room suggests herring. Partridge and Jane loathe each other so no chance of them shaking hands. However, Jane said he’s recited every handshake from when his Wife and Daughter was killed. But what if this mythical handshake took place before? During his scam psychic days? It’s a poser.

    • I think red.john is lizbon

    • I think red john is lizbon

    • Rian
      PJ has that forlorn demeanor of a non-nurtured child (think “Oliver Twist”) He seems to like to provoke “good” mothering (concerned, reminding him of real world practicalities & consequences for indulging himself in pissing contests w/ authority-types).

      Also, the words he taunted his former boss, Luther Wainwright w/, saying, “You’re a Mama’s boy, you’ve still got milk on your lip” were likely either from shaming he had endured (most likely from Dad, Alex) or the bursting thru of envy that PJ had toward Wainwright, possibly b/c he seemed too secure, confident even when he didn’t realize how off base he was).

      We see Alex Jane usimg PJ as a shill, we have no clues as to whether PJ’s Mom fled Alex & the gypsy life or died young or kept herself quasi-sedated w/ booze, or what.

      JK,
      The angry guy in the Vegas bar who wanted his $ 5 K back made me sit up & notice, too.
      My questions were: Considering the timing, was he a genuine “old customer” of PJ’s who had one eye open all these many years to get a refund? Or were the assailants anothet RJ plant, so Lorelei could worm her way into his (ahem) affections faster? I did not think the thugs looked as well- groomed as the surrounding crowd, but maybe that is just me. To me it looked like zhey were sent to zero in on PJ & cause a comotion.

      PJ reacted back w/ an escape routine that looked practiced, even tho he has gotten rusty since Carney days. He knew better than to try having a discussion w/ an enraged person.He seemed familiar w/ making an urgent exit, hiding, attempting to scale chain link fences, but not in as good shape as when the pair of them would leave b/f the sheriff showed up.

      PJ really did not appear upset wrt the kind of beating we witnessed him getting. While he was being beat up, I was thinking “i bet he is glad, for once, to be as drunk as he is, so it dulls the pain”.

      Those death of Wainright – Lorelei moving into play episodes are hard to watch b/c PJ is not using his smarts.
      Once he is back in the bosom of his CBI teammates, he tells TL that even his months as a drunken bum were a meaningful strategy to draw RJ out.

      Is he really that broke now? What happened to his antique car collection & other assets? Surely RJ can peer into data bases to determine whether the destitute gambler act is real or not.

      I still have not seen much of Season 5.
      Am patiently watching for boxed set to become abailable.

      Have a good w/e.

  2. OK, JK….
    How is it you that you get the show earlier than the rest of us plebeans?

    I am ok w/ this episode & it does make me realize I can’t have “anymore” until the fall & thus am not ready to give up the show. Obsessing about “when can I see a new clue, a new episode?” & valuing the “faux” relations we have w/ the players more than our own real life ones are indicators of addiction.

    So when I have said “enough already…. let’s wrap this saga up while it still has cred w/ its fan base”, I was not aware of how deeply the show had become a touch stone in my life.

  3. Okay, does anyone have ANY theories on how Red John knew about that memory of Jane’s? And also, how the heck did Red John list Jane’s suspects weeks (or months) ahead of time?

    I can’t think of an answer to these questions without Jane being Red John. Anybody got any ideas?

    • Lisbon’s sore arm was not explained! Could it be that she has some RJ connection? She could have found a way to sneak into Jane’s study and discover his suspects, and she may have even been a part of the homicide of Eileen (thus the sore arm – something went wrong?). Just a wild theory.

      Pulling the little girl out of Jane’s memory is an unexplained mystery…

    • Only explanation would be that Lorelei isn’t really dead.

    • I think Red John is Jane. I don’t think Jane knows that he has another personality

  4. I have a gut feeling that it’s Teresa Lisbon. In the episode “Red John Rules”, at the very beginning when Lisbon checks up on Jane, Janes asks about her hand. She says, “She tripped”. Is this a clue that she murdered Aileen the night before or maybe that same day. Then there’s the relationship between Lisbon and Jane. Doesn’t it seem like they have secret crushes on each other, right? Well, maybe it’s really much more than that. Maybe Lisbon is really obsessed with Jane. Maybe she has been obsessed with Jane even before they knew each other. Maybe she used to watch his show and became fatally attracted to Jane or just hated him for being such a fake and a fraud but obsessed at the very same time. She wanted him all to herself so she killed his wife and daughter. Maybe it’s deeper than that. Maybe it’s related to Lisbon’s alcoholic father and something linked to Jane that hasn’t been revealed yet. Maybe Jane used some kind of psychotherapy/hypnotherapy on Lisbon’s father that caused him to commit suicide and that’s why Lisbon punished Jane by killing his family. That could be a possibility. Now, they work together which makes so much sense especially because she’s always a step ahead of Jane. “Keep you friends close and your enemies closer”… sound familiar? Now, later in the episode, when they meet Mr. Barlow there’s another clue about Lisbon. Barlow knows that Lisbon is a believer. That she has faith and believes in the supernatural so that means she understands that the psychic world is real and maybe she’s the one who possesses such powers. Barlow visits the mind of Lisbon and he read that she’s in love with Jane but “love” can be interpreted in many different ways… obsession, fatal attraction, love to hate, etc. Now, in the end when they reveal the “7″, it would make complete sense that Lisbon is not among those 7. She has seen Jane’s poster boards and she has 24/7 access to their department. Maybe she made the vid herself and she’s just playing mind games with Jane.

    • She tripped in real life while skiing.

      • Where did you find the source ‘while skiing’ ? :)
        Understand that she broke her wrist IRL but never been published when or why. Enlighten me,

  5. X,
    3 wks is a really long time to expect to “shush” us wrt the whole season finale. JK suggested we refrain from discussing the surprise @ the end & that may be the best this group can manage.

    In the meantime, I suppose I can pick a little fight w/ JK if he is actually around wrt the fact the hypnosis is a legitimate entre into the human mind…. in other words, it works as long as the subject has some degree of trust or interest in the one doing the hypnotizing & the information or suggestions offered as not out of keeping w/ the subject’s deepest sense of self. It is used w/ great benefit as one of several integrated treatments in Pain Treatment Programs. Professional sports teams also benefit from it. The movie “The Manchurian Candidate” (the old version w/ Lawrence Harvey, Frank Sinatra & Angela Lansbury shows it more starkly, but accurately than the newer version) is a good portrayal of the hidden parts that can be elicited after “programming”.

    It seems to me the folks behind “The Mentalist” have been meticulous in how hypnosis has been used & how Jane explains it to others. I think it has a big part in how RJ recruits & retains “help”, but there is more….

    I too am curious about Lisbon’s unexplained cast on her R forearm.

    These “Mentalist” creators & authors, producers, etc. play us like fiddles, don’t they?
    But I still am fairly sure they are not handing us a version of “life is a tale told by an idiot!” (Shakespeare, “King Lear” I am fairly sure)

    • Unfortunately every tweeter has ruined next weeks finale for me. Still, at least I don’t know what’s in La Roches tupperware box until tonight! Hafner in S4 ep2 shakes Jane’s hand then squeezes Jane’s shoulder..a usual hypnotic move. However, it’ll be Stiles. When did Jane shake Partridge’s hand? I’ve viewed all 8 minutes they’re together on screen together over 5 seasons. No hand shake!

      • X,
        There is this abundant site under “The Mentalist” in Wikipedia (who knew?)

        It links up character names, faces, jobs & what they have done, including hand shakes w/ PJ, that puts them on the “RJ list.

        I went through that, entertained til my battery died. The way it was presented may be slanted, but Bob Kirkland sure looks the part to me. I even went thru naming each “Roy Taglifero” & thought others did not carry the moniker convincingly. And Homeland Security can poke their nose in wherever they want: wire-tapping, other agencies files, etc.. That is basically why the Civil Libertarians were up in arms, imagining the death of privacy, when the agency got its mandate after 9/11/2001.

        I have not seen most of Season 5 @ all yet, as we only got cable late into the season & of course, boxed sets are not out.

        If it were just a zig-zag soap opera story line, I wouldn’t be following it @ all. If Ray Tagliofero = Bob Kirkland, I am expecting the decision to have been made early in Season 4, not last week. Actually, by the time Hightower’s cousin was tortured to death & O’ Laughlin went assasinating people. But. oh wait…. that was Season 3. wasn’t it?

        Maybe Heller will ‘fess up when it is really completely finished.

  6. Correction on the attribution of that “Life is a tale told by an idiot!” quote. Definitely Shakespeare, “Macbeth”, Act 5.

  7. It was good but I am beyond sick of this story. They have gone on way too long and given Red John super powers, which is ridiculous. Please end this story already and end it early in the season. When I know it is a “red john” episode I do not even want to watch it anymore. Bruno promises to end this story next season but it sounds like the entire season is going to be Red John. I hate hearing them all say Red John, it makes me cringe now each time they say it. Bruno Heller blew it with dragging this story out for so long.

    • First off…ending of season 5 finale > ending of season 3 finale

      In reply to your post, the creators can’t end the Red John storyline without ending the Mentalist. Jane is only at the CBI to catch Red John, a point that has been brought up many times on the show. Jane wants a life, but doesn’t believe he can have one until Red John is dead. So when Red John is caught or killed, Jane will leave to start a new life, or be in prison…or dead (Holmes/Moriarty).

      P.S. Now that Virgil Minelli can’t be Red John…my money is on Bret Stiles…he is the only one that makes sense to me.

      • Yes, it was a great finale.

        This is what I think happened. Lorelei told Jane that he and Red John had shaken hands. I think Patrick started his research right then and there, and eventually came up with a list of seven names. However, his seven names are not the seven names listed by Red John. I will explain…

        It does not make sense that Patrick would make a board of Red John inside the CBI, where in all likelihood, Red John will find out. I believe he did his own research in his head, and made the board to throw off Red John. If Red John thinks he knows Jane’s suspects, Jane can catch Red John unawares.

        Based on this theory, 2 people have broken into Jane’s room (Kirkland, and someone else). I think Kirkland is looking for Red John out of anger, because I believe he was the abusive ex-boyfriend of Miranda Martins. The other person is Red John or an accomplice, which is how Red John obtained the list that Jane wanted him to have.

        Also, I think this episode showed that Jane does not trust Lisbon entirely (based on my theory), unless Bertram is on Jane’s list as well. Her arm cast and awkward behavior is another reason why I think so. As far as how Red John knew Jane’s memory, I think he with planted something on the board that Red John could use to realize that specific memory (Red John is smart after all), or Red John got the information from the psych ward Patrick stayed at, which is more likely.

        So that is my theory. All Jane did was hand Lisbon some pictures, and after watching the video already. We have yet to see the actual list, but will in the season 6 premier.

        P.S. I think Jane’s list is: Bret Stiles, Brett Partridge, Gale Bertram, Virgil Minelli, Oscar Ardilles, Dean Harken, Ray Haffner, and Royston Daniel.

  8. “The cards are up on the table and they’re the real cards,” Heller tells TVGuide.com. “There is no sort of double twist. There’s no more messing around.We’ve been through all the twists and turns of plot, and we’re now getting to the truth. Only the truth gets revealed from now on in.”

    So, how well do we know the seven possible suspects? “You will recognize some of the names,” Heller says. “Some will be obscure, some will be very well-known. But they’re all legitimate suspects, and next season we will have to work out which one is the real guy. But under a great deal of pressure, that will be revealed at the end of this episode.”

    Indeed, just as Jane thinks he’s closing in, Red John strikes out against someone from Jane’s past. And the move is baffling to Jane. “It’s someone Red John couldn’t possibly know is connected to Jane,” Heller says. “So, just when Jane thinks he is finally one step ahead, Red John is still on top. He doesn’t turn things around to make Jane realize what he’s learned is wrong, but it appears almost magical.”

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    Speaking of magic, Emmanuelle Chriqui will reprise her role as Lorelei Martins, who was last seen dead at the hands of Red John. “It’s not a flashback, a typo or a mystical thing,” Heller says with a laugh. “You’ll have to work out what other alternatives are left. It’s a surprise, and it’s a good one.”

    Also surprising: the shocking way in which the list of seven names is ultimately revealed. And while Red John won’t be caught in the finale, Heller promises that the story is growing much closer to its conclusion.

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    “This is the final chase,” Heller says. “We will know who Red John is and we will catch him next season. Everything that has happened over ther past five years will come to a head, and things will change drastically. This is the biggest finale in terms of game-changing and setting up for the last act of the Red John saga. This is as definitive and revolutionary as you can get.”

    • Well…that screws my theory lol.

    • W/Comcast, I found snippets of that last show, out of order & bounded, each one, by an advertisement.
      Looking again @ Sean Barlow boast wrt his basic agreement w/ RJ & the victim around him til puberty @ least, there may be a photo of PJ looking up & smiling @ LeeLee. It is hard to imagine where all RJ related miscreants give him info & help him weave these personalized taunts to shake PJ’s confidence / resolve.

      Another individual in govt service declared long term fealty to RJ, another clue suggesting RJ is a governmental big shot.

    • @Rian, it doesn’t “screw your theory”. Where does Bruno Heller confirm that Red John is one of the seven suspects? Certainly not here.
      ” They are all legitimate suspects and next season we’ll have to work out which is the real guy “.
      Every blogger has leaped to the wrong conclusion. If Bruno Heller was confirming that Red John is one of the seven, he would use less circumspect language such as ‘yes Red John is one of the seven suspects on Jane’s list’.

      • I watched both interviews (on YouTube) and while Heller says there’s no bluff now (if you believe that) remember Jane only mentioned Bertram to Lisbon. Thus we can presume Jane never narrowed down the list and so RJ has done Jane’s hard work for him OR bar Bertram, the other 6 on the list are not Jane’s. He didn’t look in total shock after all. It’s another theory regardless of Heller’s protestations. But logically: McAllister? No. Jane defeated him in rock, paper, scissors too easily. RJ would have wanted to defeat Jane there. Kirkland? Shady character but he wouldn’t have needed to break in to Jane’s apartment. Stiles? Possible but Jane can read him. Van Pelt also states Stiles is not as good as Jane. Bertram? Likely as he believes in public perception just like RJ. Reede? Who??!! Jane easily antagonizes him in Season 5 opener so unlikely. Partridge? No. Never shook hands. Haffner? Interesting. Has contacts, timeline puts him at death of Visualize members in barn, In charge of Jane but belittled by him. But the only logical choice from the 7. Thoughts?

    • Ever watch the not as so eloquently confounded show Supernatural? Same thing. It turns out everyone in the life of the protagonist has been in collusion pointing him toward one direction without the protagonist’s knowledge. So what? That is what you say at the end of a series that has dragged on with ony a pretense of intent. Frankly, I find Bruno Heller rather mundane. His plots per episode are paper thin, and any village idiot can say they are brilliant at misdirection when they have a whole staff to come up with more comical misdirections than the amount of actual plot they can write that wasn’t conceived the week before. Joss Whedon was able to conceive a whole series at once and do it, actually do it successfully. Heller… not so much. I think he wants us to think he;s the mentalist, while we’re just getting bored.

      • Stevedore@ I’m not about to disagree with you either in your assessment of Bruno Heller or with your Red John theory.
        The Mentalist is a show which profoundly lost its way due to its lack of direction, the exemplar being Red John.
        Red John as a villain makes little sense at all. First he’s a serial killer, then he’s a cop killer and suddenly he’s a comic book supervillain controlling all the crime in Gotham City, I mean California and now he’s a mind reading magician.
        Despite all of its faults(save season 4 which is best forgotten), The Mentalist is an almost peerless genre creating whodunit. It has spawned Sherlock, Elementary, Unforgettable and some others that I can’t recall. I think that we all mourn the show it could have been, for me the pilot and the Tommy episode represent the best of the Mentalist. Still, it is a great series and if the next one, as looks likely, is to be its last, it will be sorely missed.
        I suspect that Red John will be an individual as opposed to an organisation, because audience expectations demand it to be so. Bruno has given a sop to the fans by throwing Brett Partridge in the list of Red John suspects, there has never been a more ridiculous Red John suspect than Brett Partridge. Some fans misunderstood the promo for the pilot which featured the scene between Patrick and Brett and spun this elaborate theory, absolutely crazy as crazy as the claims that the extra in the red jumper in the Jane/Carter scene was Red John or that CBI Ron is Red John.
        Your theory is well observed, is true to recent plot conventions but I just believe that it won’t be so.

        • I agree that RJ became absurd from the moment Carter wasn’t RJ. That finale was without doubt fantastic. By being a nobody character at a coffee table and the intensity of Barker and Whitford, the entire viewing world urged Jane to shoot. Even by that finale RJ’s persona wasn’t too OTT. Now however, he’s Lex Luther/Joker. I think The Mentalist should’ve either have Jane take down Stiles regardless and added new direction and focus after Season 3 or Jane evolves into a serial killer. As for Partridge as RJ, why not add Ellis Mars to the equation? JANE NEVER SHOOK PARTRIDGE’S HAND. Surely the writers must’ve realised?

      • Stevedore@ Supernatural was for a time a wonderful show, a clever apologia for homosexuality hidden within a Hardy Boys meets Buffy premiss.
        Brotherhood was a metaphor for how close a male on male relationship can be as two young men took to the road(roads are always symbolic of Life journeys in movies)slaying monsters, each obstacle bringing them closer together until they realised that their destinies were inseparable.
        Of course the showrunner rewrote the final series to enable it to go on and on and on, denying the audience of the brothers mutual destruction as Lucifer and Michael, such a shame. It’s a terrible show indeed now!
        Here is a lesson for all Mentalist fans, all good things are meant to end.

  9. In Hypnosis, there is also “Stockholm Syndrome” where terrorized prisoners abandon their self-perceptions to attempt to obey + please their captors. It is an attempt to reduce unbearable, insoluble anxiety. The heiress Patty Hearst got brought up on bank robbery, etc charges for assisting her captors from the SLA, was acquitted based on the Stockholm Syndrome defense, but found it necessary to marry her bodyguard in order to have a sense of well-being.

    All this as prologue to my suspicion that Kristina Frye was a RJ plant from the first, to engage PJ + get his defenses down. We saw the hint in the Panzer episode that PJ has already trained himself or been trained to become suggestable when he stares @ a flickering light, present atop the TV camera, but also present often w/ candles when PJ was around her. She could have actually inserted recollection of events / feelings that never happened. When PJ was permitted to see her after officially being an RJ captive awhile, she was insisting she was already dead, which sounds pretty similar to the “psychic” hooey RJ is now is asserting that he has + PJ doesn’t (which is ironic, since RJ first got after PJ for pretending to have supernatural powers, but really being a fraud).

    Some of our group may recall a spate of lawsuits against psychiatrists for what is called “False Memory Syndrome” b/c their patients were claiming elaborate, unlikely recollections after hypnotherapy + Amytal interviews w/ them.

    So that is one possibility PJ may have to confront about himself.
    What Rian said about it coming up while hospitalized (2 yrs, wasn’t it?) After RJ killed his family. Or someone from his carney days witnessed PJ’s response way-back-when, but I consider that unlikely.

    How did TL ‘s arm get hurt? Well, she investgated LaRoche’s secret on her own when she was mad enough that PJ would not satisfy her curiousity. If Masburn is in any way a RJ allie, TL would be vulnerable to hypnotic suggestion made by him. Another possibility: she is spying on some aspect that she thinks is worthwhile + she was injured trying to avoid capture.
    The dynamic btwn her + PJ is more competitive… Many people prefer feeling angry to feeling sad or afraid or alone… It feels strong rather than weak. It is possible she has turned on PJ, but it does mess w/ the preceding seasons’ story limes. Jane probably does need someone to tell him he’s not sosmart right when the mind games get intense.

    • I don’t think Frye was a RJ plant. I think she was just a functioning crazy person who was very clever and very good at reading stuff.

      As for Jane, I think the hospital idea is the only one that makes sense. When Jane saw the blinking red light and decided to have RJ kill panzer, he wasn’t hypnotized, he was just coming up with the idea, and also running through the consequences of what will happen next. I in no way think he was hypnotized. And I also don’t think he CAN be hypnotized. He said in an episode “only the weak minded can be hypnotized” and Jane is not weak minded. The only way I could see the hypnosis idea working is if he was hypnotized at the hospital while on drugs, and he has been under hypnosis ever sense.

      • Rian@ perfectly correct assessment of Ms Frye.
        Elsmitho@the flickering red light had little do with hypnosis which is a popular misreading of that particular scene in the Panzer episode. It infact recalled an earlier episode where Patrick and Lisbon were being observed in a barn with Dumar. Patrick suddenly realised that RJ was watching him and then hatched the plan to trick Panzer into slandering RJ.
        Sean Barlow despite using language similar to Lorelei’s ‘ you’re a little in love with her ‘, ‘ you’re a little in love with him ‘ is not a friend of RJ’s, RJ’s friend must be within the family who ended up with Caitlin as his plan depended upon the discovery of the kidnapper so that she would give Patrick the disc(why not a memory stick?).
        I suspect that Stevedore is again correct about Bruno. I don’t believe though that RJ will turn out to be a construct, just a character who has unfortunately become more than a little absurd because Bruno never had a real RJ in mind. So much of this silliness would have been avoided if Bruno had not changed his mind about Tim Carter as RJ.

    • Robin Tunney broke her wrist…That’s why Lisbon has a cast. They probably couldn’t hide it so they played with it.

    • Stockholm Syndrome and hypnosis have absolutely nothing to do with one another. And it takes years of true psychological assessment to determine if Stockholm Syndrome truly exists in a person’s psyche, and frankly if it exists at all. Modern psychology calls it more of a media explanation, if not invention, to understand the complex behavioral systems involved in the pure survival instinct.

      • StvD,
        You are mistake wrt the psychodynamic + neurocognitive relatedness of SS, which is adaptive + the mechanisms of hypnosis.

        However, this is not a forum for such side issues.

        • Elsmitho@ how would you explain the relationship between battered wives and their abusive partners. The affect is indistinguishable from SS. Hypnosis is in my opinion an unconvincing explanation of the phenomena.
          Anyway that is a side issue, I was just intrigued by Patrick’s highly dubious methodology.
          Cold reading and hypnosis are not legitimate ways of gaining knowledge, they are tricks. Cold reading relies on the individual connecting with ambiguous and general statements than himself or herself contributing information to produce the spurious effect of having been read. Hypnosis, far from placing an individual into an unconscious state of suggestion(whatever that means)is dependent on a fully conscious individual actively performing and responding to the ‘hypnotist’ to produce the appearance of being under the control of another.
          The Show has invested these spurious tricks with a kind of scientific authority. Cold readers read palms, tea leaves, astrology or claim to talk to the dead.
          Patrick Jane reminds me sometimes of Columbo, that mysterious mystical sense of guilt.

          • JK
            Thanks for bringing up abused women’s paradoxical perceptions & behaviors as a common example of Stockholm Syndrome. In Treatment Team meetings, therapists don’t even puzzle over why abused women are so blind to options & show absolute paralysis to choosing safety for self & kids when it is delivered free of charge, w/ support of women who are farther along the path of finding their sense of self. It is just generalized under the heading of SS. (Men can be the abusees, but socialization of women to yield, their softer smaller physiques & their less advantaged financial realities prime women for accepting victimhood more readily.
            The thing about SS, the extreme, AND hypnosis is that in both cases the person is acting w/ a suspended capability to correctly read the facts: in the present (remember the episode where the envious sister was telling Rigsby to dive into the “cool water” over the ledge of the roof of the building), to integrate conflicting information (remember the guy dragging the corpse, thinking it was a sack of potatoes? Same episode, right?), or to liberate yourself, get up & call your friend & say, “something is wrong w/ me”, even when you realize you are uncomfortable, something is very wrong or discordant.

            As far as how expert or effective a practitioner of hypnosis or “cold reading” can be, it is not as simple as being a sports star. Certainly some individuals are more perceptive, intelligent, curious, turned on to non-verbal levels of communication, experienced based on how they were trained & allowed to find out lots of peripheral information that either validates or gives the lie to what the budding expert thought he was reading.

            It is very impractical to expect one person’s (RJ’s) will to dominate & outright re-program lots of peoples’ minds like it is a “Trojan horse” that can be snuck indiscriminantly into any & everyone’s databases.

            But if RJ is so capable at discerning in each person what is their deepest heart’s desire plus their deepest fears, then can make those things seem very real, very plausible through that cross-over between charisma & hypnotic persuasion (watch Lorelei seduce PJ in the last couple episodes of Season 4 or PJ calming his friend the safe-cracker late in Season 4 to see how it is done), then, since he has been at it for 10 + years w/ power & funds, he could have a spin off, even more evil twin to Visualize, which uses “hocus pocus” to cause fear, but relies on solid inderstanding of human defensive structure, shame, difficulty admitting needs & getting them met in straight-forward ways….

            So reading people always provides some info. Like Jane was exhorting Lisbon, “use you instincts”…
            It is just not smart to jump to conclusions w/ too little data.

            One psychoanalyst who sat w/ his female patient 1 hr 4 days a wk was able to discern from her lying there, unable to see his face, commenting on how she couldn’t quit minding a hole in mouth where a molar had recently been extracted & then remarking that one of the books on his shelf was upside down, that she had had an abortion that she had kept hidden from everyone. She exclaimed, “How could you know that?!” Half the point is that he was tipped off by the subjects she wouldn’t address. The other half is that the body speaks even when we forbid ourselves to talk.

            Clear enough?

  10. Hey guys..this is my first comment on this site. It has been only a few months that i started watching ‘The Mentalist’ after a friend of mine recommended it to me and gave me the first four seasons of it.

    The character of Patrick Jane had fascinated since the very first episode and the more and more i watched it became a kind of addiction to me when i actually started going deep into Jane’s feeling and his hatred towards Red John. This show has been gripping me since the very first season and that is ofcourse not only because of Jane’s amusing, clever, cunning, manipulative and even charming aspects but also for his other darker, deeper, wounded side that comes forth whenever he faces a RJ situation.

    I have been watching multiple episodes per day (sometimes had to put a pause for some important work i have had)and now in a couple of months i have reached the last aired episode of the fifth season just yesterday. Now you can imagine and im sure some of you are even familiar with this addiction of ‘The Mentalist’. This show has been running in my mind on the background all the time ….its like my subconscious mind is running a background program on who Red John might be. I have grown so very curious about this that now after watching RJ so very cleverly outdoing Jane AGAIN by describing his list that now i feel like i have driven to the edge of my desperation to know who RJ is and more importantly how or if at all he is going to suffer at the hands of Jane before he dies.

    Now as a fan of Bruno Heller’s work i would like to know how many of you go expect a similar ending(as described below) to Red John and to ‘The Mentalist’:-
    Simply Killing Red John would not satisfy me …Red John has to have the feeling of defeat in his eyes when he dies(Keeping aside the theory that Patrick Jane might himself be Red John). Jane has lost everything he cared for with the death of his wife and child so in a way he is already defeated by RJ even if he manages to Kill him. But the real satisfactory ending and the victory of Jane’s tireless skillful search for RJ to have his revenge would be to see a picture of regret and horror on RJ’s face when he meets his end. Killing the body of Red John can never be enough..Jane has to kill his spirit…his very existence and his beliefs(whatever those are). Red john should feel that among all his horrible deeds killing Jane’s family and then taunting him was his biggest mistake and that regret should pour out from his eyes as he dies. One of the best ways to kill RJ’s sense of hideous pride would be to turn his loyal disciples against him and also to make him feel filthy of his own deeds. That would be the real death of Red John.

  11. One more thing to add. If you listen to Lorelei read off the 7 suspects on Jane’s list, there are two distinct pauses before two of the names. Almost as if she is cautious to say Red John’s actual name on camera. Those two names are Raymond Haffner and Sheriff Thomas McAllister. I just found that odd, especially Haffner’s.

    I know that could just be editing and suspenseful camera work, but for some reason that stuck with me.

    • I don’t believe that RJ is on Patrick’s suspect list but he is connected to more than one name on the list.
      Could someone explain what Reede is doing on the list?

      • Heck if I know. That came out of nowhere and makes little sense.

  12. I didn’t read all the comments but I see really complicate and crazy theories. Just one thing: to people wondering why Lisbon has a cast, you may want to search for some information and you’ll know that the actress Robin Tunney broke her wrist. That’s the only reason why Lisbon has a broken wrist too. Just saying….

  13. I love it it is really clever and I hope Patrick Jane catches him soon… !!!!!

  14. I just watched episode 22. I was very disappointed and a little angry actually. The show lost it’s realism a long time ago, but it is now just getting ridiculous. If Red John is so powerful and influential that he can control men and women in top positions of society and government then he is some superhuman being or the show is just making a mockery of our country. The dumbest part was the child services lady. She risked everything and worked for Red John, knowing he’s a killer so she could have a baby, which she gets for a few hours and then kills herself. And predictably too. Of course PJ and Lisbon take no special precautions to ensure she doesn’t end up like every other RJ witness. Seriously, its just getting pathetic. I’m going to spend my time watching game of thrones instead.

    • Watch Iron Man 3. Same premise. There is no real Red John as an individual person. Red John is a decoy to further the goals of all those “powerful and influential” people. Those powerful and individual people are all a part of a clandestine cabal that use Red John as an avatar. He is a construct. That is the only plausible explanation that would avoid this convoluted silliness from not just jumping sharks but being hurtled into absolute absurdity. Bruno is not as clever as we thought he was.

    • Of course you’re right Hugh@. A murder suspect would have been searched thoroughly therefore her pill would have been discovered and I would also suppose, that she would have been handcuffed with a policeman at either side of her. Alas you have to allow this glitch as her death was absolutely necessary for plot development or we’d be embroiled again in another witness impasse. We needed her to die to lend credence to the final scene.
      You’ve also noticed something that not many others on this site have. THAT SHE DOES NOT BENEFIT FROM RED JOHN’S PLANS! Her capture was necessary to Red John’s plan therefore we can assume that she was never supposed to be the recipient of the child, Red John’s real friend is thus amongst the family who received the child.

  15. I’m actually sorry that some people were unable to hold their excitement back.
    I wouldn’t worry though, many of the respondents here who have seen, have missed much of the fascinating details. So there’s plenty to discuss and still much to be discovered in the season finale.

  16. Patrick Jane IS NOT Red John. All the finale empirically proved is that Red John has been with Jane since childhood; unless you thwart the whole shows premise and believe Red John has true psychic powers. Jane, himself, admitted barely knowing the victim as a very young girl. Who else is he not remembering?

    • Stevedore@. Or that Red John has people that are close to the young Jane in the carny community.
      Red John always gives someone something that they want. As Red John’s plan required the discovery of Caitlin and the arrest of the woman who held her, it was never his plan to give her the child. Wouldn’t it be wise to assume that the family who ‘ had travelled with the Janes for a hundred years ‘ were the planned recipients of the child.
      Red John’s original crime spree had nothing to do with Jane but isn’t it also something that we can assume, that John investigated Jane as Jane investigated him. Do we know the fate of Jane’s father, that resentful individual who has no qualms about where his money comes from, could he not be helping John ‘mess with’ Patrick?
      Am I the only person to notice the similarity between Patrick’s happy childhood memory and Red John’s logo?
      On the Stockholm Syndrome Stevedore you are quite correct, the survival of an individual in such a circumstance depends upon him/her empathising and connecting with their kidnappers.
      Hypnosis perhaps has more to do with conformity, peer group pressure and subservience to authority figures and charts the foolish lengths a person will go to please a watching audience or to obey an authority figure with a kind of play acting.

      • @Jason King I actually almost agree with you on all your points, which still do not disprove my hypothesis. My hypothesis is that Red John is the name of a group, not a man. Perhaps there was a “real” Red John at one time, which they drew inspiration to use as a mythic killer to further their goal. If so, he died way before Jane came onto the scene or they killed him way before. The group killed Jane’s family, not a lone serial killing man. What do you think?

      • I’ve just thought of the most ridiculous ending and it smacks of Star Wars! Red John is Jane’s BIOLOGICAL Father! But Alex Jane is his surrogate/step Father. It would explain how RJ has yet to hurt Jane himself and explain why he’s allowed Jane to track him down. Remember ‘RJ doesn’t make mistakes. When he leaves a clue you have to ask, why is he leaving it?’ Jane to Bosco. It’s totally absurd I agree but it’s entered my head and is almost plausible!

  17. Watch Iron Man 3. Same premise. There is no real Red John as an individual person. Red John is a decoy to further the goals of all those “powerful and influential” people. Those powerful and individual people are all a part of a clandestine cabal that use Red John as an avatar. He is a construct. That is the only plausible explanation that would avoid this convoluted silliness from not just jumping sharks but being hurtled into absolute absurdity. Bruno is not as clever as we thought he was.

    • What would Red John be a decoy for? I’ve always assumed a randomness about His victims because(another assumption) if there were some relationship between the victims, a pattern, the Police or Patrick would have noticed this.
      What I have never understood in The Mentalist is the inertia and inactivity in the pursuit of this terroristic maniacal serial killer of waspish women. I wonder whether Robert Kirkland was introduced to solve this conundrum.

      • Kirkland’s involvement is suspect. But I maintain that “Red John” does not read like a serial killer (and I mean, in the real world) by any normal standards. It is obviously a very fictitious thing Bruno Heller created that has no logic-based reality in the real world. Heller is no Thomas Harris.

      • Yes, this serial killer and now rapist has been committing crimes for so many years yet there is no way every police force wouldn’t be keeping a special task force to find him. And I’m surprised he isn’t in the 10 most wanted.

  18. An excerpt from an article in which Bruno Heller discusses the premise of the Mentalist;
    The premise of Bruno Heller’s show is “what if Derren Brown decided to work with the police?”

    An excerpt from an article written by Derren Brown about hypnosis;
    It seems to me that it is best understood as a process by which the subject allows herself to become highly responsive to the hypnotist, in a way similar to the responsiveness that we tend to exhibit when we go to a doctor or interact with most authority figures.

    • I don’t believe that RJ is on Patrick’s suspect list but he is connected to more than one name on the list.
      Could someone explain what Reede is doing on the list?

      • I think many people on the list belong to Red John. Red John is a group and many on Patrick’s suspect list (Bertram, for one) are members. When all the disciples say “he” they are referring to “it” the group. There is no one single Red John, just members. Perhaps there is a leader calling the shots. In that case, I hope it’s Van Pelt; she is obviously shifty and has a lot to hide.

        • The poker game that Lisbon is a part of is the biggest clue. That poker game is literal and a metaphor for what Red John actually is. And who is the first person Lisbon sees when she attends… Bertram. But he is surprised, so we know he is not calling all the shots. It’s a group effort. The biggest surprise would be 15 people revealing to Patrick at once that there is no Red John, that “we are Red John.”

          • I completely agree Stevedore@ that the poker game possesses some revelance whether it shows to the audience the machinery of secret shadowy familiarity, or is a metaphor for furtive rationality or is as you claim a Red John society, I do not know but we will see in season 6.

            • Jason King@ I also believe that hundreds of disciples believe there is one Red John, which means Patrick doesn’t. Too smart for that. He is only after the shot-callers and knew he was being watched. The question is, do they know about the matchstick that hit the ground?

            • I do not believe everyone at the poker game is a part of a Red John Society. It’s like this: all elephants are gray, elephants have trunks. all gray animals have trunks. See. Logic dictates it’s not that simple. A portion might have been at those poker games, but never the whole. And the whole of the poker group is clueless.

      • Bruno Heller “insisted” that one of the men on Jane’s suspect list is Red John.

        So if that is Jane’s whole list that was revealed, then I think RJ is one there, as disappointed as I am (I wanted it to be Minelli).

        • But he doesn’t Rian@. I have reposted the relevant part of the interview with Heller.

          • I read a different interview than the one you posted. If you google it you will find 2 separate ones.

  19. I hope all the people that just disappeared will reappear in season 6 (except for dead people). Jason King’s review and Heller’s comments very intriguing. I like reading the responses via e-mail, but either I’m in Heller’s head or dead wrong!! So I’ll just be quiet………….

    • I’m impressed. Your viewing of the show and facts obtained are supportive of your defence of Heller. However, I think we can all agree the path Heller originally paved has changed. Firstly, it’s with apparent obviousness Jane was to be RJ to start with. However, the audience loved Baker’s portrayal of the character so Heller changed it to make RJ an actual being. Hence Carter. A left of field character with the persona to be unnoticed by society yet with a clever deviousness. Then Season 4 is commissioned and bar Panzer and Lorelei nothing came out of the other 20 episodes. So Heller has to fumble another direction. The point is Stiles has known who RJ is since Season 2 Ep 19 I think. And it makes me wonder why the writers haven’t noticed.

    • X,
      You are overreaching or have a fixation ;-) to keep insisting that we all agree that Heller’s original intention was that PJ murdered his own family.

      Heller has stated the contrary.
      I reject the assertion that Heller’s original intention, folded into the first couple scripts, was that PJ = RJ.

      • JK and Rian are in agreement too so maybe it’s not just me viewing the show in a fixated way. In fact, if Jane had been RJ I would’ve felt very cheated. But it would’ve been so clever if lacking originality.

  20. ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: After all that craftiness on Patrick Jane’s part, Red John is still a step ahead of him. So can we really trust that the list is accurate if Red John is so willing to confirm it?
    Bruno Heller: Yes, we can trust that list. As much as much as Red John has been one step ahead, Lorelei Martins’ intervention changed the game. So as much as Red John is trying to play from a position of strength in reality Jane has gotten a lot closer. This last episode of the season really sets us up for next season: The hunt is on, no messing about.

    Bruno Heller avoids stating that Red John is actually on the list. Red John IS NOT on the list.

    Would Red John being caught necessarily mean the end of the show?
    Heller: Let me put it this way: If and when Red John is caught, there’s an interesting life dilemma for Patrick Jane and the rest. I think it would be very odd if Red John falls dead and the show stops right there. Because the natural question is: What happens next? It’s either a big story or smaller story, depending. I mean, I know. But I would be cheating on the narrative if I told you all I had planned.

    Jane IS NOT going to be able to kill Red John. Why? Because Red John will be someone that Patrick is emotionally involved with. So who would that be? Outside of his team, Patrick has very little emotional investments. Agent Cho seems doggedly to refuse to talk about his parents and his sexual relationships are definitely unsatisfactory. Of course, Lisbon is similarly emotionally stunted and secretive about her past, we know that her mother was absent and her father was an abusive alcoholic. Could this have stirred some peculiar resentment against women? It would be a little odd as Red John appeared to be watching Jane and Lisbon’s struggle with Dumar(?).
    Whatever Bruno is planning for John, it seems a little Hollywood but I’m hoping to be surprised.

    • I agree that RJ became absurd from the moment Carter wasn’t RJ. That finale was without doubt fantastic. By being a nobody character at a coffee table and the intensity of Barker and Whitford, the entire viewing world urged Jane to shoot. Even by that finale RJ’s persona wasn’t too OTT. Now however, he’s Lex Luther/Joker. I think The Mentalist should’ve either have Jane take down Stiles regardless and added new direction and focus after Season 3 or Jane evolves into a serial killer. As for Partridge as RJ, why not add Ellis Mars to the equation? JANE NEVER SHOOK PARTRIDGE’S HAND. Surely the writers must’ve realised? And Red John is Alex Jane! I’m sticking to it! I await the mocking later.

      • Usually I’d scoff but the finale, made your Alex Jane theory less ridiculous. I can recall at-least one occasion in which Jane’s father was mentioned. Red John has a deep knowledge of Jane and Red John has carny connections.
        Jane obviously has a blind spot where carny folk are concerned. He found it incredibly difficult to read them. It’s strange to reintroduce the carny folk unless they’re going to play a great role in the next season.

        • Sorry to also add that Brett Partridge NEVER shook Jane’s hand. How can he be on the list. I’d rather the Red Jumper Extra! I’ve always felt it either Jane himself, Max Winter or Alex Jane. Why introduce us to him in a flashback without there being a reprisal down the road so to speak? But Jane Sr as you know Mr King was and is once again my prime suspect. As a twist, Kirkland is Jane’s Brother OR the finale will be Jane, Kirkland and Alex Jane in a Mexican stand off (Kirkland not being related to PJ for this one) with Kirkland wanting RJ for himself and career, and Jane deciding revenge or resuscitation.

          • As in vengeance by killing AJ/RJ or resuscitation by allowing AJ to escape but having to sacrifice Kirkland to do it.

        • I strongly disagree that Alex Jane is Red John, but I accept it as a possibility. There had to be some reason showing Jane’s childhood flashbacks, but I am convinced it is the girl they con, and not his father. I have no reason, just a feeling.

          If Red John is not on the list, then it has to be Virgil Minelli. He is the only person out of anyone that could pull it off in terms of acting, and the storyline validity.

  21. Another theory that I believe to be true….all the people that “irk” Patrick Jane (Bertram, Partridge, Stiles) are not Red John. Though I am a little hesitant about Stiles.

  22. DISCUSSION FOR THE FORUM…

    Almost everyone here has at some point stated that Red John has become something of a powerful figure instead of an average serial killer. Especially after the season 3 red herring finale. Reasons for people saying this (including me) are the amount of dedicated followers he has, the wealth he has, the high power allies he possesses, his intelligence, etc. It seems to be the consensus that Bruno Heller made Red John into this mythical figure because he wasn’t sure where the Red John storyline was going.

    My question is…..Are we sure this wasn’t his intent all along? I will use early season on-screen evidence to back up my claim that this WAS his original intention.

    Red John has always had dedicated followers, even in the first few seasons (Dumar, Orville Tanner, Bosco’s receptionist). All of these were high power authority figures who were very dedicated to him. So why is it a huge leap that he couldn’t have corrupted people in power higher up the food chain. Red John also hacked the secure database more than once early on, and also found the location of Renfrew and got there before the CBI, which shows he HAS to have friends in high up places, so the groundwork for his disciples were laid early on in the show, and should not be seen as unrealistic (as far as the show is concerned). Also, many of his followers were abused or had rough lives, so corrupting them wouldn’t be that difficult for his skill level.

    As far as his intelligence and knowing about Patrick Jane/what he will do to catch him, isn’t a stretch. He has always been careful and clever, he DID kill at least 10 women before the show and didn’t get caught. Also, with the right questions to the right people, and a bit of perception, you can obtain any information on certain people. For all the cold reading Jane does, why is it unbelievable that someone else can do the same?

    As far as the wealth aspect goes, there are a lot of rich people in the world, so that part being unrealistic should not even enter into the conversation.

    Before I get bashed by people who say I am being too lenient, re-watch early season, and you can see the groundwork being laid for what Red John is today. I am not saying Bruno Heller didn’t go a tad bit overboard (because even I think so), but to say he didn’t know where Red John was going and made him into this mythical figure is a stretch. Heller is smart and I am sure he had this scenario planned out somewhat in advance (though I do think he wanted the option of making Timothy Carter Red John at some point, but decided against it).

    THOUGHTS……

    • I’m impressed. Your viewing of the show and facts obtained are supportive of your defence of Heller. However, I think we can all agree the path Heller originally paved has changed. Firstly, it’s with apparent obviousness Jane was to be RJ to start with. However, the audience loved Baker’s portrayal of the character so Heller changed it to make RJ an actual being. Hence Carter. A left of field character with the persona to be unnoticed by society yet with a clever deviousness. Then Season 4 is commissioned and bar Panzer and Lorelei nothing came out of the other 20 episodes. So Heller has to fumble another direction. The point is Stiles has known who RJ is since Season 2 Ep 19 I think. And it makes me wonder why the writers haven’t noticed.

      • Yes, I also believe Jane was the original intention to be Red John, and somewhere when the first few episodes aired, they changed it for the reasons you stated. I also agree about Carter, that he was a stop-gap incase they didn’t want to continue the RJ storyline to turn it into what it is today.

        Yeah the whole point I was saying with RJ being this mystic figure was that that was the original intention of the show runners all along (after they abandoned PJ=RJ).

        • With your facts I can agree to that. Post Jane, RJ became Darth Vader. Why were the FBI investigating Jane (100tj episode) though?

          • I don’t think they were investigating him, just keeping tabs on him. Whether for Red John or someone else, I don’t know.

            I am partial to my theory that… A.) Robert Kirkland is either a former Red John ally and who now wants RJ dead for redemption or protection – OR – B.) Robert Kirkland is the ex-boyfriend of Lorelei’s sister and wants revenge, and in both cases, he is using Patrick Jane to find him first.

            • Again, interesting. If so both our theories could merge in the finale: Kirkland finds RJ when Jane does and it is Alex Jane! I feel the FBI were investigating Jane purely because RJ is a man who feels he’s intellectually superior and wouldn’t need CBI updates. Kirkland is RJ herring although he killed Lennon, works in FBI with Schultz (‘I have a friend in the FBI’) and has the same figure of RJ at Rosalind’s place. But he’s after RJ to enhance his career.

              • The “enhance the career” angle is good too, and that didn’t even cross my mind.

  23. Hey guys, I just have a feeling that PJ’s wife’s brother may be RJ coz (i think) he was close to PJ once. And Heller has not confirmed whether RJ is there in the list also. So I think he is RJ.

    Any thoughts ???

    • Danny Ruskin? I think Jane could read him though. The only negative to AJ being RJ is the remark by Lirelei which states that they should’ve been friends the moment they shook hands. However, didn’t AJ and PJ shake hands just before scamming the dying girl? I would re-watch the episode but DVD player has broken!

  24. Red John means one thing. Murder

    • I am fascinated by everyone’s theories. All of them are in play except one, Jane will not be Red John, Bruno has confirmed this.
      I believe that any list of Red John suspects which contains Brett Partridge is a red herring especially as some of the names on the list are literally ludicrous(McAllister, Reede Smith).
      For all we know Red John is the crime scene photographer in the season finale. Every theory is in play, from CB Ron to Van Pelt. So the more Red John theories, the better.

      • I am sure Jane will have a different list and he’s getting close. Of course it’s a faux pas list as Partridge is on it. Sorry to keep bleating but they’ve never shaken hands. The real RJ (if Partridge) would know this and discredit the whole list. So it’s not Partridge. Sheriff McAllister and Reede? Why? Intriguing names but herrings. So we’re left with 4 viable suspects but so obvious. My guess would be there are 2 names Jane’s not put on the list (due to not being able to tell Lisbon): Alex Jane and Virgil Minelli. Thoughts?

        • Yeah, I would have to agree, though I am not a big fan of Alex Jane as RJ. He seemed like a greedy idiot in the flashbacks, riding the coattails of his son. However, I am definitely in the Minelli boat, as I have said before, and I believe he is Red John. The “Red Dawn” episode didn’t feel natural to me (as in…it didn’t fit with the other episodes for some reason). BUT…it did specifically show Jane shake hands with Minelli.

          The more I think of it though (to my utter disappointment) Partridge and Haffner aren’t that bad of suspects, and Jane would have left at least a couple real suspects on the list to ensure credibility.

          • Just for the record (with all the facts about RJ, and the plausibility of their characters taken into account) my list would be…

            Brett Partridge, Raymund Haffner, Vint Molinari, Dean Harken, Virgil Minelli, Linus Wagner, Bret Stiles.

            The first 4 because of the physical description and somewhat plausibility, and the last three because they are gut feelings…with Minelli leading everyone.

            • Again, interesting. I have to ask why Partridge? And Wagner? He was in prison for many of the times there were RJ murders and still is. My 7? Harken, Stiles, Bertram, Minelli, Kirkland, Haffner and Royston Daniel.

              • I like the list and think it is definitely possible. I had trouble leaving Royston Daniel off the list, and Teigler (his assistant) for that matter. And the only reason Stiles wasn’t on their was because he and Jane have an odd friendship, and I don’t think he and RJ are close. However, Minelli would be in the same boat as Stiles, and I think he IS Red John, so its kind of hypocritical of me.

                Curious…Why do you have Kirkland on there?…I know he is a more than plausible suspect and should be on the short list, but I see him as a red herring. And I have a theory he is looking for Red John to kill him just like Jane is, so I am bias. But I was just wondering why you think him.

            • Again, interesting. I have to ask why Partridge? And Wagner? He was in prison for many of the times there were RJ murders and still is. My 7? Harken, Stiles, Bertram, Minelli, Kirkland, Haffner and Royston Daniel as Jane hasn’t realised it could be his Father.

              • I don’t think Partridge should be him AT ALL. But I put him on there because of the voice and physical description, and also he is a recurring character so the audience value would be higher. Harken and Molinari because of their physical description and their demeanor (I had to narrow it down somehow and they seemed like good fits). Also because Molinari is in the best shape to NOT find Frye, and Haffner because of his authority and Visualize background. And Bertram because…well…no need to explain.

                I put Wagner on there because of the actor (great actor), he is the pilot, and also his voice. If you listen the the RJ tape when Jane is in the limo, then listen to his voice, they are eerily similar. Also, being RJ, he could conceivably get in and out of prison. But the thing that does it for me, is a line in the season 2 finale. RJ (or accomplice) says “If there is one thing I can’t tolerate, it is cheap imitations of my work.” Wagner imitated RJ and was not killed, like the other people who piss off RJ have been. He also knows the human mind (being a shrink), and copied the RJ letter very well, which I assume Jane’s RJ letter was not public knowledge. AND…my final point…Wagner was helping kids in AFRICA, the same place Timothy Carter came from. All of these things together make for some strong evidence in my opinion.

                And Minelli (the frontrunner) for many reasons. The Red John Suspects on the wiki page give a crazy amount of “evidence” for it being him. Not to mention the obvious stuff.

                • Oh yeah, I also forgot to mention. When Timothy Carter (for RJ) says he wants to retire and make a difference for children…that also ties into Wagner being a good RJ suspect (because he helped children in Africa, where Timothy Carter is from.

                • Wagner’s imitation was very good though thus RJ had the utmost respect to save him and maybe befriend him (hence becoming the friend of Renfrew in prison). Partridge, Bertram, Jane Jr and Wagner all sound like RJ in each Season we’ve heard him. However, a voice changer can explain whiever’s voice is used. I dismiss vocals as a clue (except for Bertram). Kirkland is in the list because his figure looks like the figure of Rosalind’s visitor in Season 4. Harken is just such a lover of himself and a dark character that he’s a perfect RJ. Power, money, influence and has the chemical to kill Rebecca. Minelli because he looks like the shadowy figure running out of the door. And re-watched Season 5. Reede also never shakes Jane’s hand! And I don’t ever re-call Stiles shaking his hand either!

              • A question…if RJ killed Renfrew, why no smiley face? Instead just a he is man scrawl??

                • I always wondered that. And also why he called Jane to taunt him. But RJ also wanted to kill him in the season 1 finale, then found him as a worthy adversary, so maybe his motives (towards Jane) when he killed Renfrew is different then it is now.

                  • If all the other RJ killings before Renfrew were non-smiley face I would agree. But the idea RJ respects Jane for getting so close is intriguing. After all, RJ knows Lisbon and RJ are as one and if so wanted, could kill her at any time. So why not? Well, if it’s Minelli it explains itself. And Minelli resigned the moment after Bosco’s team were assassinated. Fishing wire was used on Lorelei’s sister and Minelli fishes. BUT Minelli and Jane liked each other from the start and there’s the counter-argument. I’m intrigued 3 people who’ve not shaken Jane’s hand are on the final list!

          • Alex definitely is a con artist. But when Patrick escaped the carny circuit how much was Alex hurt?. Sean Barlow explains how people ‘die’ in his eyes when leaving his family. Alex has no faith (like RJ) and is a wicked man (like RJ). AJ as RJ was only a gut instinct originally but after that finale it’s a little more credible. Unlikely, I grant you all, but it’s credible.

  25. My own personal list of Red John suspects; Danny Ruskin, Virgil Minelli, Drug Lord Miguel Leva, the crime scene photographer, the FBI Chief and the Attorney General(very compelling theory that I read on this thread).

    • Ruskin? Leva? CSI Photographer?

      Im not saying that isn’t possible, but I am curious why you think so.

      I do like the FBI Chief (he had the look in my opinion). Also, the AG idea from the theory a while ago was pretty good too.

      • With my list, I make an assumption which may be a bit of a leap, I believe that Jane’s list is a red herring(maybe Jane has another list).
        Brett Partridge and Bertram Gale are the eternal red herrings therefore any suspect list that includes them is suspect.
        Our attention was drawn to the Drug Lord Leva, the camera spent an inordinate length of time on his photos and the police were unable to locate him. He obviously well connected. RJs victims are a little peculiar, defenceless women and law enforcement(male officers). I expect that a Drug Lord would possess the hostility to authority figures expressed in the murders of policemen and that amoral misogyny and sadistic enjoyment of the suffering of the female victims.
        Danny Ruskin is an obvious RJ suspect, the jealous brother-in-law with a gift for female seduction, someone possessing similar skills to Patrick.
        The crime scene photographer is always suspect due to Seven and the Road to Perdition. He asked Brett a lot of questions whether he was just a vehicle for the audience to be introduced again to its favourite Red John red herring Mr Partridge, I cannot say but his appearance was memorable.
        I also would place Judge Lancaster on my suspect list. His conversation with Lisbon was quite striking, he must have been aware of Volker’s relationship with Shettrick.
        I need not argue for Virgil Minelli and his reappearance in the 100th episode, shaking Patrick’s hand and imposing Patrick on the CBI. The Attorney General is an excellent theory and I congratulate the chap for its creation.

    • Wagner’s imitation was very good though thus RJ had the utmost respect to save him and maybe befriend him (hence becoming the friend of Renfrew in prison). Partridge, Bertram, Jane Jr and Wagner all sound like RJ in each Season we’ve heard him. However, a voice changer can explain whiever’s voice is used. I dismiss vocals as a clue (except for Bertram). Kirkland is in the list because his figure looks like the figure of Rosalind’s visitor in Season 4. Harken is just such a lover of himself and a dark character that he’s a perfect RJ. Power, money, influence and has the chemical to kill Rebecca. Minelli because he looks like the shadowy figure running out of the door. And re-watched Season 5. Reede also never shakes Jane’s hand! And I don’t ever re-call Stiles shaking his hand either! I think JK’s list may be tongue in cheek. I like Max Winter as a candidate too. But I’m still of the thought the 7 aren’t Jane’s list. Jane will string Lisbon along until he narrows down his true suspects.

      • I believe we can take Bertram off that list now as well. I just don’t see how Bertram would have fallen into the season 3 finale trap. Bertram was told one room, Olaughlin another, Olaughlin reported to RJ (Bertram in this scenario)…how would he not know it was a trap when 2 people were told 2 different rooms. And that along with him being an in your face RJ suspect, I am now completely off his boat and am labeling him a red herring.

        • Bertram may have not told O’Loughlin of Jane’s trick and so realised Jane was closing in. So, he hires a self sacrificing female assassin to lead Jane to himself. However, unbeknown to O’Loughlin, Bertram gives Jane his insider by remarking about the rope. In doing this, Jane is distracted from the obvious, and so Bertram leaves Jane to it with Carter now in reserve. Does that make sense? I have re-wrote it twice now!

          • Yeah it makes sense. I just figured O’laughlin would have told TJ right away where Hightower was, or at least someone close to RJ.

  26. I think red.john is lizbon

    • RJ is male, taller than lisbon, and with short hair. Also, Lisbon couldn’t have been at all the murders. She could be an accomplice (that would annoy me), but other than that, not happening i don’t think.

  27. I still don’t get why gale bertram is included on your suspect list. It doesnt fit the RJ profile. i’ve watched season 1-5 in details. I just don’t see his personality being similar to RJ. I really wanted for jane to be RJ but what the heck, I wanted to be surprised as well..

    just sayin.. =)

    Guys Enlighten me!!!! Sorry But The episodes of The Mentalist is always delayed here in the Philippines. Can anyone send me a DVD copy of the latest season?? =)

    • Because Bertram is in a position of power, has untold influence and is a man who craves public perception. A bit of a showman as such. His voice, briefly pitched in one sentence in season three, sounded as close to RJ as Partridge or Wagner. He also, when first meeting Jane, called him The Boy Wonder which is what Jane was known as in his carny days. And he quotes William Blake. Plus, at the end of Season 3, was one of the main suspects in Todd Johnson’s murder. And was with Jane in the Shopping Mall before the Carter scene! Bertram is a very credible RJ.

    • Hey LMP
      The boxed DVD set for Season 5 does not seem to be available in the USA yet.
      Amazon.com has it listed, but only for “pre-order”.

      Once it is in circulation, eBay sometime is a good market for less expensive used rental copies.

  28. I would think it a major glitch in the story if RJ turns out to be someone PJ sees frequently in the course of weekly assignments, he is likely always scanning individuals and environment for any tip off, conscious or unconscious, like anyone who is savoring the gore, like that tech that’s on the list, but is more likely a RJ minion that RJ ” the one and only”.

    Another thought is about Tim Carter’s use to RJ b/f his final “lamb to the slaughter” act.
    Since TC captured and terrorized RJ-eligible female victims, can’t we consider that he was a ” stringer” for RJ all along? His house was already set up for victims, but there were no corpses buried in the yard.

    When Linus Wagner joined the RJ club is hard to tell, but PJ observed that he was capable murder, lying, vengeance that would have no end when his wounded narcissism is involved. Bigger and more powerful and more famous are right up his alley. But he is a late-comer to RJ’s story, I would think.

    Thoughts?

    • Wagner may have been a Dr at that Visualize farm so met RJ earlier then we expect. As for Bertram as RJ; Jane may not read everyone correctly. Timothy Carter arguably did what Lennon was doing. Getting young women ready for rape and murder for Red John!

      • Doesn’t charity work in Africa link three characters Timothy Carter, Linus Wagner and a reverend and former member of Visualise?

  29. Does anyone believe that Jane’s suspect list IS NOT a red herring?

    • Bruno Heller maybe haha?

      • Lol