‘Supernatural’ Season 8, Episode 7 Review – Returning Friends

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supernatural season 8 episode 7 dean castiel Supernatural Season 8, Episode 7 Review – Returning Friends

After a few weeks off, Supernatural has finally returned to its seasonal storyline of sealing the Gates of Hell forever. But in this week’s episode, “A Little Slice of Kevin”, Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) finally receive some much-needed help from Castiel (Misha Collins), who has finally returned from Purgatory and is (seemingly) back to normal. Could this be a sign of good things to come from Supernatural season 8?

The name of the game is “Find the Prophet,” and Crowley (Mark Sheppard) aims to win. Having already begun collecting future Prophets (in case anything “happens” to Kevin), it’s this string of odd disappearances that puts Sam and Dean on the case – except now with Castiel to help them in their search. As Crowley’s need of a Prophet rises, his tactics in getting the Word of God translated turn bloody, and Kevin must give up an appendage. But it’s Castiel’s mysterious return that Dean is most concerned about.

It may have taken seven episodes, but Castiel has finally returned to the Supernatural, helping to bring a sense of normalcy to the series in general. Though Crowley’s search for the Word of God has had its fair share of entertaining moments, its inclusion in the series has largely felt like forced fetch quests, with new character (and Prophet) Kevin and his mother stuck in the middle of it. Where is Chuck, the original Prophet?

Although we may never know, Sam and Dean did make sure to mention him in their questioning of Castiel. And with that note, the Winchesters largely sum up fan concerns with the series so far. Fortunately, it appears that a proverbial deal for longtime watchers is attempting to be made. But there are a few trade-offs, mainly story related.

After watching Dean struggle with his return from Purgatory (from the loss of Castiel), everyone’s favorite Angel returns to grace the screen. But the story that accompanies his highly-anticipated return does leave much to be desired. Castiel’s extended stay in Purgatory was initially thought to be the result of Dean failing to save him, then it’s revealed that Castiel decided to stay in Purgatory to pay for his sins, not knowing how he got out. It’s eventually revealed that Castiel’s escape from Purgatory was at the hand of some Heavenly power. The same Heavenly power that has, up until this point, remained silent.

supernatural season 8 episode 7 castiel heaven Supernatural Season 8, Episode 7 Review – Returning Friends

Perhaps that’s what needs to happen to tell the stories the producers want to tell. The entire element of Heaven’s role in all of these battles has largely been ignored – but mentioning Chuck’s name does hint at the potential for some enjoyable tales ahead, considering the plan is to take Supernatural to season 10. As any fan of the series will tell you, there have been a few missteps in past seasons, which are expected as series age. And while fans had hoped that quick fixes would be in place for the Supernatural season 8 premiere, it realistically takes a good six or so episodes to be able to logically implement any large changes.

What fans wanted to happen is largely occurring, even if its execution isn’t always perfect. Castiel is back and powerful as ever, but what comes with it is a thin story that can’t take much scrutiny. Sullen Sam and Grumpy Dean are back, but what comes with it are awkward flashbacks of Sam in love and Dean becoming friendly with a vampire. Bobby (Jim Beaver) is still, well, dead. Is there any way that could be fixed? At this point, fans will take any ridiculous story about a “ghost door” to get him back.

Supernatural’s change is apparent and will eventually (and hopefully) be successful. And while some elements that are the result of that change aren’t always the most enjoyable, hopes are high these trade-offs will pay off in the long run.

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Supernatural returns in two weeks with “Hunteri Heroici”. You can check out a preview of next week’s episode below:

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  1. Whit Bobby gone, Castiel had to be back

  2. Mediocre at best. This season is awful.

    • If you don’t enjoy it there’s an easy solution: Don’t watch.

      • You kind of miss the point. I and many others loved this show and we keep watching out of loyalty and a hopeful return to greatness, but every opportunity this season has been squandered. It is barely watchable, and this is the first episode that we are thrown a bone of something half interesting, except it is another redundant storyline with Cass being manipulated somehow to advance the plot. With all the potential ethereal mythology to delve into, it is just plain inexcuseable to have squandered this much of the season on boring meansering recycled storylines.

      • You kind of miss the point. I and many others loved this show and we keep watching out of loyalty and a hopeful return to greatness, but every opportunity this season has been squandered. It is barely watchable, and this is the first episode that we are thrown a bone of something half interesting, except it is another redundant storyline with Cass being manipulated somehow to advance the plot. With all the potential ethereal mythology to delve into, it is just plain inexcuseable to have squandered this much of the season on boring meandering recycled story-lines

      • This show has earned my loyalty, and I’m not going to give up on it because I dislike a season only seven episodes in. I’m going to hang in there hoping there is a justification for writing Sam and Dean so out of character, and hoping Carver can show us some of that brilliance he exhibited in episodes like Mystery Spot and A Very Supernatural Christmas. But if none of us complain, then how are the writers and producers to know a certain storyline or characterization is missing the mark? I think feedback is useful, and proper feedback has to include both the negative and the positive.

      • BTW, I have never ever complained in seven years and I have been watching every single week since the pilot, I have always been happy with every single episode before now. I think I’ve earned the right to complain for once.

  3. I liked this ep, love cas v. crowley.

  4. I’m glad Cas is back!

  5. I’m SO glad Cas is finally back and the series has finally returned to what SHOULD have been its storyline the entire season; the search for the Word of God and the angel/demon conflict. I was growing tired of all the filler episodes and the vampire, Benny. I hope the vampire storyline vanishes quickly. Enough “Twilight” and “Vampire Dairies.” As for Cas’s manipulation plot line being ‘redundant,’ I don’t see how that is the case. After all, the FIRST time Cas deceived Dean and Sam he KNEW what he was doing. In this case he has no idea what is happening. We ARE watching the same show, right? I’m tired of Cas haters attempting to trash the character every chance they get . . I love Dean, Sam, AND Cas and am glad the three are back together again. If anything is dull in this show right now, it’s the tossed in vampire buddy. Vampires are everywhere in TV and movies, hogging them, and I for one am sick of it.

    • You’re missing the point. People criticizing Cas’s storyline =/= people hating Cas as a character. Cas is one of my favorite characters in the series and I really don’t like what this season has done with him. That doesn’t make me a hater of the show, or the character, or anything really. I find his storyline to be redundant for multiple reasons, and making Cas oblivious that it’s happening to him doesn’t suddenly make it different then what he’s gone through before, and more importantly, it doesn’t make for a good story.

  6. I liked it, but the whole thing with Kevin’s mom and the witch was played a bit too much like scenes from a comedy show. Of course I love the humor in Supernatural, but a bit more serious acting in these segments would have made the episode better.

  7. Good episode and this season is fairing out ok. Is this season great? No, but its not bad either. At this point the show is getting dragged on and we are seeing recycled plot lines which is a bit frustrating.

    But the whole closing the gates of hell forever plot line is pretty strong and should provide a strong story arc for the next few seasons.

    Where they went wrong, offing Bobby. If they planned on going till season 10, then they should have kept in a few more seasons. The Tran characters (esp the mother) are a bit too irritating and not ample enough of a substitution

  8. This is why I can’t read the comments…they’re mostly from people who complains and bitches…I’m tired of people complaining about storylines, character, or the season. This season has been great, one of my favorites so far. Cass’ storyline is not redundant at all, he has never been manipulated, the things he has done are by his choices. The only thing I hate about this show is its fans! Always complaining…

    • Absolutely right on. I’m going to keep on enjoying the shows and stop reeding the blogs

    • i agree too, although i think the season has been ok, I think the last several episodes, at least the ones involving the main sotry arc, have been excellent, and last weeks Garth/Spectre as well…that reminded me of the great “monster of the week” we used to get back in the day.

      This most recent episode, IMO was the best in awhile. Felt like its finally getting comfortable in its own shoes, know what I mean? First few eps of this season everythng seemed forced and even perfomances were subpar, like they were testing the waters or somthing. It was fresh not to see leviathans so I liked it regardless…and I do like the Benny character alot. But I’m not crazy about the execution of his storyline…missed opportunities there…but craps gonna git the fan down the road with benny and Sam just hope it was all worth it…

      Anyway, all in all, alot of complaining yes I agree i see it. This is rubbish that, is garbage. I think this show all 7 1/2 seasons has been solid. Sometimes excellent and just special, other times not so much, but I still tune in and enjoy the ride. I got issues sure, but I still think its decent and by the looks of the last few weeks I feel its getting back to the excellent stuff.

      I loved the cutaway with CAS and the implications. This got me sitting up in my seat and feeling like “yes, here we go, now we’re back”…

  9. I found this episode irritating for a number of reasons. I was cautiously optimistic at the beginning of the season, and I was able to enjoy the first two episodes, but as the season has progressed everything has just gotten more frustrating. I’ll explain why and maybe some people will see what I mean.

    This episode was just pretty poorly written, to start. The witch sub-plot was bad and didn’t really need to be there. The show just needed some excuse to give the location of the Trans away to Crowley, but they didn’t need to create another evil, flat female character existing as a plot device to do it. It just either should not have been there or should have happened differently in some way. It was actually rather odd that Linda would trust someone so easily like that… I just didn’t really get why she would have made that mistake… Sam and Dean have wrongfully trusted people in the past, but still. And I don’t like how the show sent them off to Garth at the end… Garth is a totally incompetent hunter. Kevin and Linda were doing fine protecting themselves until they trusted Delta. They could have just gone back to what they were doing. Bringing another person into the mix, someone who’s such a poor hunter and has seemingly no experience in dealing with demons, just doesn’t make sense. It was probably just an excuse for whenever the show needs them again, it won’t be hard to write their return because they’ll be staying in a singular place. It’s still insulting that the Trans would have to be trusted to Garth.

    The twist with Dean’s memory not being accurate was really just lazy, convenient writing. I heard a few people talking about how good this episode was, and that people should prepare to have their minds blown or something, but really this twist was just the biggest load of bull I’ve seen the show pull in a while. It’s not just convenient, it just doesn’t make any sense at all. It’s not like Cas just let go and then Dean stumbled into the portal, leaving Dean wondering who let go… Cas literally threw his hand aside and screamed “GO!” at him. In what world can you misinterpret or not remember that? It was just another excuse to fuel angst for Dean that didn’t need to be there or should have been written differently. That fuel ran for the first seven episodes, so I imagine soon the show will need something else to fuel meaningless angst for the main three characters. Speaking of which…

    I love Cas, but I don’t like how his return was treated this episode. I mean for starters, the reunion was so terribly mishandled I couldn’t believe what I was watching. Like he shows up all over the place for Dean to see him, which didn’t really make any sense. If he was walking by the side of the road, dazed and confused, teleporting all over the world because his mind and powers are fluctuating, I mean that’s believable. But it seemed to happen like JUST when Dean needed to see it, and Cas appeared outside his window JUST when Dean needed to see him again. Why did he appear there? Why didn’t he just go in? It just didn’t make any sense. And when he shows up, the show cuts away to a few minutes later. Like, what? In what world do you handle any reunion scene like that? This character has been purgatory for an extra few months… Dean was guilt-ridden that Cas died, Sam had no idea what happened. Why would you skip their reactions? That bothered me. Then at the end where Cas is telling Dean that he stayed behind because he felt he deserved it, and that Dean couldn’t save everybody, nobody tells Cas that he’s worth saving. Like the ‘healing’ in this episode between Dean and Cas felt really one sided. I appreciate some of the interactions that they had, but it’s all weighed down by the way they were handled. Dean got to have his guilt resolved, and once it was, how Cas felt about the situation suddenly didn’t matter. Then suddenly Cas is being used to spy on the Winchesters. Why do they need Cas to spy on them? Why can’t anyone else do it? The invisible-stalking ob could be done by any other angel. And if they need Cas to convince them to do something, why do they need him to do it? Why can’t they just force Sam and Dean to bend to their will like they’ve done before? It just doesn’t make any sense. And now Cas has been reduced to an entirely passive character. I find his arc redundant because this is how the show has treated him since late season 6, as a beanie bag they can just hit over and over again when they need to, to produce whatever kind of angst that they need. The show doesn’t want to develop him anymore? Drop him into a lake. He has to return? Make him crazy. The angels need someone to spy on the Winchesters? Oh, Cas is the one to do it, and his memory was to be erased. That’s not even mentioning like, how Cas’s craziness has been totally written away… the actor who portrays him said that Cas being in survival mode for a year weeded out that crazy part of his mind, the part he absorbed from Sam, and that he’s totally fine now. To me that just reeks of more lazy writing. I don’t blame the show for wanting to move past the events of season 7 but doing it this way doesn’t make any sense. Cas just has stuff happening to him over and over again whenever the show needs it to, and he isn’t allowed to move forward, positively progressing as a character for too long before he’s smacked with some external event he has no control over because the show needs something to happen (the black goo, the amnesia, the crazy, the memory-wiping). I find his arc redundant because he is once again at the mercy of some external event he cannot fight, and once again it is entirely revolved around his loyalty to the Winchesters, and his pain only becomes relevant when viewed through the perspective of one of the brothers (in this episode, Dean’s, because of his guilt).

    When I said the show would need something else to fuel angst for the next part of the season, I meant Cas being controlled. I’m pretty sure Cas being used like that will be it. Sam and Dean will find out about Cas ‘betraying’ them and they’ll mishandle and angst over it for the next part of the season. Cas is in episodes 8 and 10, and maybe 9, but from what I know he’s not gonna show up again until at least episode 16. 10 is the midseason finale, and I can’t imagine the show dragging out this passive character thing for that long, so it will probably be resolved in episode 10 somehow. We’ll see what happens but considering the show’s track record, before this season and now, I’m betting that’s basically what will happen. And you know, it’s just really frustrating to me. Like the show could do so much more with Cas because he’s an amazing character, as are Sam and Dean and a lot of the side characters, but they’re being put into these arcs that I don’t like.

    I find the mythology of the season to be really boring. This show could go so many places and it’s stuck having these characters chase down two (and now apparently three, according to Crowley) stone tablets. And that couldn’t even last for the first seven episodes, so Cas had to break it into pieces! So now they’re going to chase the pieces of the tablet because Kevin was so close to letting Crowley know what he needed to know, so the plot has to be extended! Like the show has teased with new additions to the mythology but it’s nothing substantial. The prophets were just in this episode. Purgatory has been turned into something really boring and is massively under-utilized. The angels seem to be one-note villains again… changing things around and saying they’re “new” angels doesn’t mean anything if they’re the same in the end.

    There were a bunch of little things that bothered me as well… Dean taking the knife into the building even though he had Cas with him… Sam should have had the knife because he was alone. Kevin getting his finger got off for absolutely no reason. That was so not necessary. It was just another scene exploiting a side character, someone it could afford to torture. I couldn’t even watch the torture scenes with my eyes open because they were so unnecessary. I don’t like how Crowley has become such a villain since the beginning of season 7, but that’s really more of a personal complaint then something I think is actually a problem in the show.

    I don’t know. I’m just so bored and irritated with this season. I was hoping that this episode would help give a much needed kickstart to things but it didn’t. I’m sure I’m forgetting stuff but that’s what I’m thinking off the top of my head. We’ll see what people think.

    • Okay, are you done with your declaration of independence? This season has been very good, Sam trusted a demon over his own brother (knowing demons are evil). So what makes you think Mrs. Tran couldn’t trust a witch. It’s not like Kevin and his mom have known about the supernatural for a decade (like Sam and Dean). I mean, she had to trust somebody, its not like they were going to stay inside that bar forever. I think she was a bit desperate to take down Crowley..I mean, any mom would be desperate to take down a man who kidnapped her son. About Garth’s incompetence…people CHANGE. Dean’s purgatory memory, he did remembered it was Cass the one who let go, they just didn’t show it on screen until castiel shows it. Dean just felt guilty, even though he wasn’t. About Castiel’s new storyline…we don’t know exactly what it is about, and we don’t know what does Naomi really wants, so I’m not judging. Besides, not all storylines are likeable, I really hated it when Kripke destroyed Sam’s character on season 4 (that was a crappy season), but I still love the series.

      • Dude when you go online to talk about a show, expect to see criticism against it. It’s the nature of opinions and the internet. Learn to deal. I didn’t reply to your first comment because there was no point. This is a place of discussion. This isn’t me ‘declaring independence’ or trying anything, I’m just talking about why I was frustrated with the episode.

        I disagree with this season being very good but I can’t imagine that leading to a conversation worth having. I’m not really interested in doing that. So I’ll just reply to your specific comments.

        When it comes to Sam trusting Ruby it’s hard for me to decide on a firm opinion honestly. I really like season four… it’s one of my favorite seasons of the show. But the thing that really hinders my view of Sam trusting Ruby is that Ruby’s character really suffered due to her story being left ouf of the narrative. For two years she was pretending to be someone else with peeks of her real self leaking through… I believe that she really did care for Sam, and that she really believed that by freeing Lucifer that Sam would be able to be happy with his family. She was loyal to her father, Lucifer, and suffered for it, in a show where one of the main thematic elements is characters breaking away from their father figures to become their own persons. She’s a really complex character who deserved better treatment in the story. I don’t think it was out of character for Sam to trust her. The show started this idea in season 3 about demons not all being evil… which was later more or less, refuted, but it’s something that stemmed from earlier in the show nonetheless. And like I said, Ruby’s story was left out of the show’s narrative, so I don’t dislike that Sam trusted her. He was trying to do what he believed was best and in the context it made sense, even if the mistreatment of Ruby dampened it.

        That being said, him trusting Ruby isn’t really like Linda trusting the witch. Sam grew to trust Ruby over the course of a year until he started harnessing his demonic powers and caring for her. Linda looked up a witch on craigslist and trusted her for some reason. I’m not saying that it’s unbelievable, but it was rather strange. And like I said the whole storyline was just unnecessary and awful. Who is Delta and why is she here? She actually seemed like she could be an interesting character. If the show wanted to show Linda’s naiveté to the hunting world, or if they wanted to show Linda’s determination to protect her son, there are plenty of other ways that could have been done. This just felt super lazy and the end result was bad. Linda and Kevin weren’t living in just that bar btw, they were apparently hopping all over the place. They were doing a good job protecting themselves.

        I don’t buy Garth’s change. The show didn’t make it believable for me. He was totally incompetent in his first episode and suddenly he’s brought back to be ‘the new bobby’ (that whole phrase and idea totally makes me cringe because it’s just so a w f u l) and he was given a sob story and it really just did not come together. I would much rather see Jody Mills come back as the new Bobby, or maybe Tamara, or some other much better side character who’s already been established in the world of Supernatural. Heck I would like Bobby to come back period, since killing him off was such a huge mistake.

        We may not know exactly what Cas’s storyline is about but we do know a few things already, and based on those things there are only so many possibilities that the storyline can be narrowed down to. It comes down to Cas being controlled by an external force that he can’t affect for the sake of the story, which has been done to up 3 times up to this point, not counting the way he was demonized in the context of the story at the end of season 6 and beginning of season 7, which is another discussion for another time. I mean even when Dean was brought back by the angels in season 4 he wasn’t treated like this. He’s not just being controlled by an external force though… he’s being used because of his loyalty to the Winchesters. And also, the angels are reduced to villains again. We haven’t seen enough of the new angels yet so I can’t say anything for sure about their motivations but based on the track record of this season I’m not confident it will be worthwhile. It would just be nice to see the angels take on a more complex role post-season 5. They haven’t been treated very welll for a while… like, they’re Cas’s entire family, and have been for countless years… but their pain only matters when it affects the two leads. There was a hint of complexity in season 7 episode 21, with Hester, Inias and the other angels. Ignoring how the angels were treated in the rest of the season, that episode set up this idea that the angels are meandering and lost without the guide of a leader figure like God, Raphael, and Cas. Like they’re these confused, angry soldiers who don’t know what to do with themselves. There was even sort of a callback to that in the second episode of this season, when Samandriel talked about Cas affected a lot of the angels. I’m so down for an exploration of the angels… but I have a bad feeling that this storyline isn’t going to do that properly… because they’re already being set up as terrible people from what they’re doing to Cas.

        • I’ve been following your comments for a while and it seems that you’re against nearly everything that the writers have done since season 7, or maybe even 6. If you were the showrunner and you were given the task of crafting the continuing story of Sam and Dean after season 5, what would your story look like? I’m just curious to see what you would’ve done differently because it seems that you’re very disappointed with the series post season 5.

          • I don’t know if I would say “nearly everything”… I would say a good amount of stuff, yes, but certainly not everything. I do like some individual episodes and some of the ideas that seasons 6-8 have tried to do, even if they don’t always work. I guess that doesn’t reflect in my comments here though, which is understandable… I typically just talk about my frustrations on this site. I’ll try to be more positive in this comment.

            When you ask a question like that it’s hard to come up with an /exact/ answer without putting lots of time and effort into planning something out, not to mention I’m not in any such position myself, so I can’t imagine all the bureaucracy and creative challenges involved, and I’m not going to pretend that I do. But I mean I am a fan of the show and I think it has a lot of potential. There are some cornerstone ideas though that I think the series should hit.

            For starters, the way that I personally would have approached it is I would have planned a story out for seasons 6-7. Because Supernatural is a staple show of the CW with steady ratings, and after season 5 I believe that Jared and Jensens’ contracts went through season 7, and that they renewed them for season 8 and then seasons 9-10. So to me it’s been obvious that the show would keep going steady for this long, and that it would have no problem continuing for at least the next two years. Typically shows don’t know from season to season, but with a show like Supernatural, which has such a dedicated following on a small network, I would be very confident I could look at it that way. I think from a technical perspective the first step would be to come up with a game plan formed around those two seasons. At the same time, I would also keep in mind that the show would probably do well enough to go beyond those seasons as well. Part of the problem with seasons 6-7 is that it didn’t really feel planned out and nothing made a whole lot of sense.

            As for the actual creative content of the show, I know what I would have liked the series to do, both in the 6-7 gameplan and the 8-10 gameplan. For one… okay, let’s call seasons 6-7 as phase two and 8-10 as phase three, and of course 1-5 as phase one, for reference. Phase one of the show was all about the story of Sam and Dean growing up and learning to become adults… throwing off their father figures and becoming their own people, saving the world from the sins of others, dismantling destiny, choosing love and family. The first five seasons explore free will vs. destiny from a positive perspective. It’s a very humanist story. At the end of season 5, Sam is allowed to be the hero and Dean a survivor. A lot of people talk about how they wish the series had ended at season 5, but I don’t really feel that way anymore. I realized that season 5 culminates in this idea about free will that isn’t fully expressed. Because even though 5 might have ended that first big part of their story, I don’t see it as the real ending. Phase one explored all of these things in preventing the first apocalypse, and I feel that phase two should have handled the idea of inevitably returning to another apocalypse. Of returning to The End. The End is an episode that was a deconstruction of the first five seasons of the show, and I feel that seasons 6-7 should have worked on being a reconstruction. The real season 6 tried to explore ideas about the dark side of free will, versus the positive perspective of season 5. Now that you have free will, what do you do with it? Cas buckled under the weight of the civil war, Dean was living an unsatisfying life, and Sam, having been outed when he wasn’t supposed to be, was soulless and did horrible things. Living with the consequences of free will… learning how to live with being adults. I appreciate what season 6 tried to do in theory even if I don’t always agree with its execution. I feel like season 6 should have explored these ideas better, and that season 7 should have explored them even further and led to the idea of another apocalypse. Season 6 would be like the aversion, and season 7 would be the return. By apocalypse I don’t necessarily mean another christian apocalypse. There are plenty of other places to pull inspiration from… it could be wise to touch upon some of the older gods, as introduced in Hammer of the Gods in season 5, for example. After the second apocalypse happens, phase three begins. Living with the aftermath of the apocalypse and what comes next. In the first five seasons, you always had a sense of how the events of the story were affecting the real world, whether it be the demons breaking loose and taking hold in season 3, the seals breaking in season 4 or the general apocalypse in season 5. I feel like seasons 6-8 have lost touch on what the world is like. There’s an episode in late season 6 titled My Heart Will Go On, and in that episode one of the three sisters of fate from greek mythology talks about how the main characters messed up the grand ending she had spent so much time planning. People were being affected by Balthazar (a character I wish had lived and been developed more) going back in time and changing the fate of the titanic. This is an example of showing how the world was being affected in season 6, but it was only a glimpse. Most of the season didn’t do anything like that… so I think that’s something else season 6 could do, is show a world that’s, for the moment, free from all the grand intricacies of the original apocalypse, a world in quiet chaos… a world that’s dealing with the consequences of being by itself, much like Sam, Dean and Cas. Season 7 would of course then explore the world being affected again by another lead up to an apocalypse, though this time it would be different of course. It’s taking another look at the free will vs. destiny argument and making it more complicated now that we have the prior experience of seasons 1-6. Seasons 8+ become a little more difficult to think about, simply because they’re not immediately in front of me mentally, but you can see how it would further explore ideas of family, and destiny and everything. The world would also be drastically different, having been through an apocalypse. It would change up a lot of dynamics in terms of how hunters do their jobs, how monsters live, etc. Doing all of these things would really challenge the show creatively and lead to lots of new stories, mythology and character development, instead of falling back on “going back to the shows roots” (ala season 7).There are a lot of ways you could go with the specific mythology and episode to episode events, but this is how I see it as just a roadmap. I think we could go into a much more detailed discussion about the specifics but this is already getting so long, and I just wanted to give a basic portrayal of how I’m viewing this…

            Let me pull back now though; I realize that the show would probably not be able to afford to do that 8-10 idea I talked about. I also realize that I am not a professional writer, and that I don’t know what it’s like to work on a TV show. And I also realize that the show has no obligation to indulge in my personal interests and that it’s more important interest, economics aside, is to entertain its viewers. But… fiction also has an obligation to tell a good story. I don’t feel that seasons 6-7, and currently 8, are accomplishing that. I feel like the past three seasons have been regressing the character, recycling story lines and meandering mythology-wise. However, in regards to me not being in the position of the people who work on the show… I feel that the sort of outline that I mentioned here would have been a good one for the show to follow.

            • Something I forgot to mention… it might help to view how 6-7 and then 8-10 would have gone if you synced it with the characters development. 1-5 was about Sam and Dean growing up. 6-7 could have been about being an adult and living with all of those unexpressed tensions. At the end of season 5, they prevented the apocalypse, but where were they really? Sam ended up being in hell and Dean tried to live a normal life. Both fates that neither should have gone into. So 6-7 explores who they are and who they want to be now that things are different, and then by the start of 8 they’re past all of that and they’ve really grown to be adults in a positive way, dealing with life. If that makes any sense. View it like this: Phase one, the origin story and set up, a culmination of themes of love and free will with complications along the way, but ending in a strange place with unresolved tensions. Phase two, the burying of these tensions, much like trying to avert the apocalypse… only to learn they have to deal with them, much like how the second apocalypse is inevitable. Then 8-10 are more freeform and open to discussion…

              If that helps make more sense of what I’m trying to communicate.

              • Blue,
                Your comments and analysis is so exactly on the money, that I wish the CW would hir your or someone like you who can formulate a strong opinion about where they deviate from a fresh idea and also a pathway to the future.

                I still hope SN can turn it around, but it’s hard to imagine they will when so many heap praise for the lazy plot devices used already this season.

                • Thanks, I appreciate it, though in the end the people who work on the show are the professionals.

                  I don’t think the show will turn around at this point either. The track record this season doesn’t give me any hope.

              • Yes, it does make a lot of sense actually. Sorry about making you think about all of that, I just wanted to see what ideas you had about the show. From what you said it sounds like you would have continued the show from what was already established in earlier seasons, like using the gods introduced in Hammer of the Gods and leading up to the second Apocalypse as in the episode The End. It’s using the themes and characters already introduced and expanding upon them, if that is what you were saying.

                Looking back at the show, I was satisfied with seasons 6-8 thus far, but I can see their flaws. For one thing, I wish the writers did something more with the Leviathans. To me season 7 was nothing but stand-alone episodes with a few mythology episodes thrown in every once in a while. The last 4-5 episodes felt like a traditional season and the Leviathans were beginning to be fleshed out in ways that made sense, like, being able to kill angels with ease since they are God’s first creations(or one of the first). I’ll admit that their plan of turning humans into cattle was silly. It was the writers’ attempt at giving the boys a threat that endangered the entire planet, similar to season 5. And one last thing – Misha Collins’ portrayal of the Leviathans when Castiel was supposedly killed near the end of the season 7 premiere was creepy, yet a glimpse at what could of been. It’s a shame that he wasn’t given the chance to give that portrayal across the entire season or at least midway through. Those were a few of the flaws that I saw, nothing related to themes or anything, but flaws nonetheless.

                It would have been cool if the writers had tried something like what you were saying but, oh well. Maybe I’m an easy-going person but besides its flaws, Supernatural has managed to keep me entertained week after week.
                Anyway, I like your ideas and maybe you should get into television one day. You’ll be good at looking at the bigger picture.

                • Thanks, I appreciate it. I am interested in going into writing, actually. I don’t know if it will be TV-specific, but I do really love the structure of television, so who knows.

                  It’s good to know that I made sense in what I was saying. And regarding the second apocalypse; it wouldn’t necessarily have to involve anyone from Hammer of the Gods, you could pull a story from a lot of different places. I am very fond of Kali though, and the relationship that she had with Gabriel. I’ve read several different wonderful fan works that take place during some kind of End!verse, and I find the idea of exploring a second apocalypse really interesting. I should probably clarify that when I mean I would like The End to happen again in a different way, I don’t mean by the end of season 7 in my gameplan of the show. The End takes place a couple years after the event that actually caused the second apocalypse. So the end of season 7 would be the second apocalypse, and then from there on we would get closer and closer to a world resembling that of The End’s. Like Lucifer said to Dean, “no matter what you do, you will always end up… here”. Returning to that world with different circumstances would be really interesting… unfortunately though I don’t think the show will go there.

                  I agree with your comments on season 7. The leviathans were very underutilized and the mass-production plot was very silly, in addition the massive overflow of filler episodes. I also agree on your praise of Misha’s leviathan portrayal… if the Godstiel arc had to happen, it ended way too soon. If you’ve been following my comments for a while you probably recognize that I’ve mentioned something called “Redemption Road” a couple of times. It’s basically a virtual season created by the fans starting from the end of season 6 and continuing with a new story. It involves more Godstiel along with some of the ideas I mentioned here that you seem to like. You might enjoy it. If you’re at all intrigued, check it out and see if it’s something that you might want to read. It’s made up of 24 written episodes, structured like a season, with a really interesting mytharc.

                  I’m glad that even though you recognize the show’s flaws that you’re able to enjoy it. It’s nice to know that some people still are.

        • Its been a whole year, since the last time the winchesters saw garth, so he could CHANGE. Ruby didn’t care about Sam at all, she just wanted to set lucifer free that’s all. She was such a b****, everything she did was part of her plan to persuade Sam, it is obvious. I knew she was evil since the first time I saw her telling him that she could save Dean from going to hell, and then talking to Dean confessing him that she can’t, that moment were I found that Ruby’s comment to Sam: “I’ve never lied to you.” was bullcrap! Season 4 was the one who turn the smart, honest, and good guy Sam into a liar, a freak, a jerk, and a selfish idiot, I mean, it was kind of out of character. The Sam from the first 3 seasons wouldn’t have done all the things he did. After he promised Dean he would hunt the way their father tought them (not using the freak powers) at the end of season 3. If I would have to choose which season was the most irrititating, I would definitely pick season 4. Do you really think Sam drinking demon blood, having sex with a demon, hiding big secrets to your brother and trusting a demon over his own brother was a likeable storyline? I still don’t understand how kripke considered Sam the hero, “the Luke Skywalker of the show”; cause for sure, Luke wouldn’t do that. Season 8 on the other hand, its fine.

          • Like I said, I don’t buy the change. The episode didn’t convince me.

            I find both your views of Ruby and Sam very simplistic. Sam is an amazing person, but he’s different from the Luke Skywalker archetype, even if that’s how his character was envisioned at first. Also, I really don’t appreciate you calling Ruby a gendered slur and flattening her as a character much like the show did.

            I bought Sam’s actions in season 4 because they made sense to me. All of his life, Sam has been the freak, he’s wanted to get away from his family and make something of himself, and he’s never able to save Dean like Dean’s able to save him. Sam died, Dean saved him. Dean died, Sam tried everything he could and wasn’t able to do anything. There are a lot of feelings of inadequacy, self-hatred and misguided intentions imbued into Sam’s arc in season 4. I think one of the reasons why it’s hard for people to understand why Sam did what he did in season 4 is because the show isn’t told him his perspective. The show has always been told from Dean’s perspective. We went to hell and came back with him, we’ve watched over Sam with him from the house fire to him being stabbed in the back, and even when Dean went to purgatory, the first thing we saw this season is him coming back, rather then seeing what Sam was up to at the time. We only saw what Sam was up to during those four months in a few flashbacks and hints throughout the season. Sam had a lot to prove to himself during his quest for revenge against Lillith, and it certainly didn’t help that Dean pushed Sam away the way that he did… not that I’m hating on Dean, because I understand him reacting the way that he did. But Dean has always been afraid of Sam being a freak and Sam has always been afraid of being seen as a freak by the one person he loves and trusts most, his brother. That tension between them had been rising throughout the first three seasons, and when Dean went to hell, Sam embraced that side of him, and then their relationship was developed the way it was in season 4. When the show first started, Sam was meant to be the Luke Skywalker of the show and Dean was meant to be the Han Solo. But that’s just when they started. People reacted differently to Sam and Dean differently then they expected. A lot more people identified with and loved Dean then they were expecting. Due to the ever changing nature of creativity, things changed. Shows change, ideas change. That’s not a bad thing… works are supposed to grow. I don’t see Sam as a Skywalker nor do I see Dean as a Luke, because they’re both really complex amazing characters and I don’t think it’s fair to reduce them down to pop culture archetypes, especially when talking about season 4, the height of tension and complexity in their relationship. Sam was always going to get to that tipping point, and Dean was always going to be afraid for him because of it. Season 4 needed to happen and for the most part I feel like they succeeded in doing it (which I’ll partially discuss in a moment with Ruby). Sam’s arc involves a lot more then just sleeping with a demon. I can see why you would have that opinion though… even to this day people are still discussing Sam’s arc in season 4.

            Like I said, I’m not a fan of the way that Ruby’s character was treated. I feel like the show missed out on a lot of complexity and development they could have given to her character. They started ideas in season 3 about not all demons being bad, but then in season 4 Ruby became on the surface, a very flat, evil character who was only there to get Sam to do what he needed to do, and very predictably so, as was obvious to many viewers such as yourself. Bu, there’s a difference between disliking a character and disliking the way that they were used. I believe that based on how their relationship grew and the way Ruby and Sam interacted in season 4 that Ruby did really care for him on some level. Ruby is a very twisted person, who believed that she was doing what was right and that Lucifer would really bring about a golden age, and that Sam could be happy in it. She believed in Sam the whole time… “You didn’t need the feather to fly, you had it in you the whole time, Dumbo. ” She is a bad person, and arguably evil, and she deceived Sam… I’m not denying that. But I don’t think placing her in the role of calling her an evil b**** and ignoring the complexity she had is fair.

            • Fine, you don’t buy the change. But I don’t buy the Ruby caring about Sam thing..she just wanted to gain his trust! I also don’t buy the “not all demons are evil.” thing from the first 3 seasons. I mean, Dean knew Ruby was evil, don’t you remember the ” she’s a demon, Sam!” quote. Dean knew it, why couldn’t Sam? Don’t get me wrong, I like Sam’s character, he is a nice guy. It’s just that after his brother warned him not trust Ruby like a hundred times, he just ignored his brother’s suggestion. Like you said, Dean didn’t like when his brother act like a freak, Sam either. He could’ve just say no to Ruby, to the demon blood. I know he was doing it for a good cause, but I was expecting a little more intelligence or respect to his deceased brother. He could have done it the hunter way, even if he died trying. But no, he listened to Ruby, and did what she said. Ruby didn’t told him not to do it the hunter way because she cared about him, she cared about Lucifer’s vessel, not Sam Winchester! What really irritates me about it is that Sam trusted a demon over somebody who has care about him since he was just a baby. That’s not Sam from the first 3 seasons. Sam didn’t leave Dean and his family because he didn’t like Dean, he just hated the hunting life. He has always love Dean, since they were kids..so why betray him for a demon. That is out of character. Sam screwed everything up on season 4, but also Mr. Kripke screwed Sam’s character on that one. Maybe you don’t see it that way, it is just most fans don’t look at Sam like they use to. Now everybody loves Dean, and dislikes Sam. I still like Sam, but I don’t feel the love I felt for him during the first 3 seasons. You could every Supernatural fan which Winchester they like more, and they will all say… DEAN…Thank you Kripke…now most people hates Sam. Sera Gamble made Sam more mature, and Jeremy Carver is making him even more mature. Thank you both! No thanks to you Kripke…

              • Well yeah, I figured you still wouldn’t see it that way. I feel like, based on your comments, that you’re determined to view the characters in this series in a much more two-dimensional way then they’ve actually been developed.

                Dean’s attitude towards monsters and demons is a very black and white view on things, and it formed from growing up as a hunter. He was trained to kill every monster he could find and show them no mercy. While part of this formed from his life growing up as a hunter, part of it also formed from the archetypical darkness that killed his mother when he was only five years old. The monster that did that to her had no face, no name, and to a five year old with a brain that wasn’t fully developed, that latched onto him like nothing else. It became something that he carried with him everywhere, that he SAW everywhere, even to this day when he’s learned to be more tolerant. Several times over the course of the series, we’ve seen examples of monsters and demons who were shown to have dimension to them. The most recent examples of course, being Benny and Kate, among others such as Amy, the Anti-Christ, Eleanor Visyak, etc. The show largely rewards Sam and Dean for killing these monsters because it portrays them as the heroes, for banging the door down without asking questions… oftentimes it ignores any traces of humanity that said monsters might have left in them. And when Sam and Dean decide not to kill a monster for whatever reason, like in episode 4 of this season, they’re suddenly really good guys because they decide to be tolerant once in a blue moon.

                The whole “not all demons are evil” idea doesn’t stem from the first three seasons, it stems from the third season alone, mostly. Demons are creatures who were once human who have been corrupted and twisted during their time in hell. They were once human. In season 3, there’s Bela, a human who escaped her abusive parents by making a deal with a demon, ensuring her a spot in hell when her time was up… it was heavily implied that she died offscreen during one of the last episodes of season 3. She was a human who needed help and went to hell for it. She’s bound to become a demon at some point. I think one of the reasons why they had Bela’s character go in this direction in season 3 is because they wanted to have a long-term character who acted as a hell-bent contrast to Dean, as well as serve as a showcase that all demons come from a human place, and she certainly wasn’t the only one. There was Casey in the episode Sin City of season 3, a demon who was shown to have quite a bit of dimension to her despite having only lived one episode. She honestly believed that her god, Lucifer, taking over earth, would be a good thing. I believe she even says that other demons pray to him… and she says that Sam was supposed to be the one to lead the first demon charge, and that she was ready to stand behind him. Her mind is twisted, and she is corrupt, but she honestly believes in what she’s saying. She has a demon lover whom she’s been with for hundreds of years, showing that she’s still capable of feeling love, who is also killed off at the end of the episode, no questions asked and no ramifications for Sam and Dean beyond the closing minutes of the episode. We also saw in “Weekend at Bobby’s” in early season 6 that even Crowley was once human, and that he had a son. These ideas were later abandoned, of course. Crowley became a more treacherous villain in seasons 7-8, versus his business-man like attitude of his first two seasons. Ruby was flattened to a predictable on-screen character despite past developments, and her narrative was ignored in context of the story so that the twist in the finale would work. Casey and her lover died, the Anti-Christ character never showed up again, and other monsters were killed off easily as well. Hell, you could even throw Benny in there, for killing off Andrea for no good reason. Such is the way secondary characters on Supernatural are handled… not even Cas, not even Bobby, are untouchable. Just because the series largely ignores the development of these monster and demon characters doesn’t render their development before hand completely void. Don’t hate the character, hate the way they were treated. And when you quote Dean in saying that’s ~obvious that Ruby must be evil just because she’s a demon, you are resorting to Dean’s black and white view of the monster world. The same view that the show has adopted time and time again, oftentimes when inappropriate. That’s not something you should resort to. Not to mention Sam himself was basically a monster. He knew himself from experience that there’s more to monsters and demons then just evil, as much as the show might resort to that for convenience.

                I still feel like despite what I’ve said that you’re ignoring the complexities of Sam’s character development in season 4. It’s not as simple as Sam trusting a demon over his brother, it never was. Dean tends to view it that way because Sam really hurt him, and he values family and loyalty more than anything, but it was much more complicated then that. As I said, one of the reasons why it’s oftentimes so hard for people to understand Sam’s actions during season 4 is because we’re viewing his arc almost entirely from Dean’s perspective. When we need to know something about his arc, we find out at the same time as or just before Dean does. We know that the angels are concerned for Sam because the angels confer with Dean and not Sam. What if the show had shown things the other way around? We would have seen much more dimension to the humanity vs. monster idea that the show started before. We would have seen the angels as mysterious, and we would have been more uncertain of what they were like and what their intentions were. We would have seen Sam worrying over trusting the angels over his brother, we would have seen Sam wrestling with his self-hated and him distancing from Dean, we would have seen more dimension to Ruby’s character. That part of Sam that was the demon blood, that monster side of him, has been present for his whole life. He’s never fit in anywhere, not even in his own family… so much so that he got in a big fight and ran away from the hunting life, leaving his big brother alone with John, someone who dominated Dean’s life who Dean had a strange loyalty to. He could have stayed and become a hunter but he chose himself instead. I think you could draw some parallels between that situation and what happened in season 4 with the angels. Sam has struggled with that aspect of himself his entire life, and that part of him always wanted to be embraced and used. One of the biggest themes of the series is what you are versus who you choose to be. What you physically, or spiritually, are, versus the choices that you make. What destiny has written in bloodlines versus choosing free will. Sam falling victim to what he was, and recovering from that and managing to choose family in season 5, was absolutely critical development for his character. The series has always been building towards Sam’s tipping point. Ever since he got those nightmares, ever since John told Dean he might have to kill Sam, ever since Meg possessed Sam during that one episode in season 2 foreshadowing his dark actions in season 4, etc. Dean rejecting that aspect of Sam meant that he was rejecting what Sam fundamentally was… the person who loved and cared for him since he was six months old, rejecting him, gradually throughout the course of the series. Sam developed his demonic powers to get revenge against Lillith, but I also think it was because Sam wanted to rescue Dean. He just wasn’t powerful enough yet by the season 4 premiere. The original plan was, before the writer’s strike hit in season 3 and shortened the season, to have Dean die, and then to have Sam train his demon powers and save him at the end of a 22-episode season 3. Sam did what he did for a lot of reasons. It was never, ever about choosing a demon over his own brother, despite how the show treated Ruby. It’s not fair to reduce her to being an evil female character like the show did. Sam chose himself over his family. Similar to how Sam chose to leave for college, and similar to how Sam chose not to look for Dean this season. Different circumstances of course, but all the same idea. That and everything else that I mentioned in my above comments, including his self hatred and feeling useless. Sam did not act out of character during season 4. I find that you’re ignoring critical aspects and developments of Sam’s character. People not sympathizing with Sam during season 4 is because of the POV of the show… that’s the way things have always been. Dean became a much more popular character then anyone on the show anticipated, and the show accommodated for it.

                Sera Gamble also reduced Sam’s character entirely under control of external events he had no power to influence. First he was soulless. Dean had to be the one to get Sam’s soul back, and Sam had no agency in doing so. Then once Dean got his soul back, he had to face the consequences of actions he didn’t commit. Then, ignored until the end of the season, he had his wall broken. Struggling again with events beyond his control simply because of what he was, crazy during most of season 7. There are certainly moments that show Sam making decisions reflecting the depth of his character… such as when he chooses to take in the two pieces of his mind in the season 6 finale, or in Repo Man when he chooses to give into Mind!Lucifer to help his brother. But it doesn’t change that Sam’s character was regressed and run into the ground for season 6-7. He was completely broken, and the only way the show could fix it was to reduce Cas to a plot device again and take on his trauma, through methods that were never explained.

                As for Carver’s direction of Sam’s character, it’s still too early to tell. As I’ve said in my other comments on here, I don’t feel that Sam acted out of character by not looking for Dean, and I like Amelia and the relationship he has with her. But I still find that his story is so poorly executed and paced that I’m having trouble investing in it and even believing it, even though the show shouldn’t have much trouble doing so. To me this speaks to the massive failure of the flashback system and time jump of this season, but given that Sam’s retirement arc isn’t over and Dean’s guilt arc IS now, we’ll just have to see where it goes. I don’t think it’s going to go anywhere good (much like I think Dean’s relationship with Benny won’t either) but I of course can’t say for sure. The one thing that is nice about his arc this season is that Sam chose it. Just like he made his choices in season 4.

                • I still don’t buy the season 3′s “not all demons are evil.”
                  Like you said, after being possesed, after Meg on the first season,which Sam first found nice, before finding out she was a demon..when he finds out she was a demon, his reaction was to take her down. So why doubting Ruby? I also don’t buy the Sam perspective thing, I know everything was from Dean’s perspective..but Sam admited that everything he did was wrong, even the demon blood. Sam knew his powers weren’t going to bring Dean back, he did knew he could’ve take Lilith down with them, but again, he could’ve done it the hunter way, he didn’t need to use the demon blood at all. I remember when Lilith was going to kill Sam at the end of season 3 but she couldn’t, Lilith powers were useless against Sam, so he could’ve just do it again, and stab her, or die trying, with honor. But he had to listen the demon that his brother warned him about like a thousand times…I don’t wtf is POV, but Sam’s character would’ve been more likeable than Dean’s if wouldn’t have drink demon blood, and join Ruby instead of Dean, or at least he would’ve get more fans than now. He did chose Ruby over Dean, at fifth episode of Season 5 Sam confesses Dean that he PREFERRED being with Ruby, because he felt in charge and superior…I mean, since when Sam really cared about Dean being in charge on the first 3 seasons. Using complicated words and getting deeper to the story doesn’t change anything…Sam was a selfish dick on Season 4, and period. Bringing the demon blood storyline was the worst mistake Kripke did for the show…

                  • He wasn’t really selfish though. Drinking demon blood wasn’t just about getting stronger to kill Lilith. It was about pulling demons out of humans – that way humans would be saved without killing them, which happens whenever they use the knife. Yeah, drinking demon blood was wrong, but he was doing it to save people.

                  • He doubted Ruby because Ruby was different. She came in and saved his ass from the seven deadly sins demons. Her intentions for helping him were unclear, and over the course of the season we saw them work with each other in different ways. She offered him a chance to save Dean from hell. There are numerous reasons why Sam treated Ruby differently from Meg/other demons in season 3, I shouldn’t even have to list them. The ones I mentioned are just to start.

                    So because Sam admitted what he did was wrong, that means that what he did before was out of character? People make mistakes because they’re human. Sam made a mistake when he thought he was doing the right thing.

                    The knife doesn’t work on all demons though. It doesn’t work on the really powerful ones. It didn’t work on Allistair. Lillith is the most powerful demon we’ve ever seen on the show… she was the first one ever created. The knife would not have worked on her. Sam had to go full-on blast with his powers to kill her.

                    POV means point of view. What I was talking about with the POV of the show is that it’s almost entirely from Dean’s POV. Sam’s arc isn’t as visible as Dean’s because we find out what’s going on with Dean either exactly when or just before Dean finds out. If the story had been told the other way around and we followed Sam during those four months and over the course of season 4 people would have an easier time sympathizing with Sam… one of the reasons why Sam’s arc is so controversial is because most people couldn’t understand why he did what he did. Many of these people consider his actions to be out of character, but really they’re not. We’re just not seeing the full story all the time, and we don’t understand the extent of what Sam went through until the end of the season (“When the Levee Breaks” is a really great episode and I suggest a rewatch as it would help you understand what I’m saying), and even further on in season 5 during his recovery.

                    Sam ~choosing Ruby over Dean~ isn’t about Ruby. That’s what I’m trying to say. It was never about Sam choosing just Ruby over just Dean. Sam chose Ruby because of what she offered him, because of how she made him feel, etc.. It wasn’t about him choosing her just for her, it was very much about both himself and saving the world in the only way he thought possible. I don’t know how many times I have to go into the whole self hatred-monster indulgence-brother alienation-uselessness bit until this is clear. Sam choosing Ruby over Sam is a very surface level way of looking at it because that’s not really what it was about. You saying this stuff about season 3 and Sam just feels like misplaced determination at this point.

  10. For me, this season can’t return to a “sense of normalcy” until Sam and Dean are back in character again. Although we find out Dean didn’t abandon Castiel IN purgatory, he did desert him once he was OUT of purgatory. This episode showed us that Castiel was not dead, he was completely alive when Dean escaped. So all the while Dean is angry at Sam for not trying to find a way to save him, Dean is not trying to find a way to save Castiel. And this is completely out of character for both brothers. I can’t enjoy the show until there is justification for Sam leaving Dean for dead, and for Dean leaving Castiel for dead.

    • You have very good points Gina, and I agree wholeheartedly. Sam and dead have been so out of character this season. I don’t understand why others don’t see it. Constructive complaints are good, as it is the only way to know how to improve something.

      • Perhaps it is due to all they have been through. How would you be, realistically, if you had experienced even half of what they have. I don’t see how Dean could have saved Castiel from purgatory after he was spit out and the rip was sealed. That would seem a little over the top even for Supernatural. That is like saying, why didn’t they go back into hell and save their baby brother. I believe he is still stuck down there somewhere. I think it would make Dean seem extremely inhumane if he wasn’t plagued by pangs of guilt over Cass being left behind. Don’t forget, it took several angels to retrieve Cass from purgatory with most not making it out.

        As for Sammy, I think he simply felt exhausted, lost, and all alone. He didn’t know what happened to Dean or Castiel. They were there one minute and suddenly they were gone. Not to mention, Kevin was taken away by Crowley (head master of hell). And…Bobby was dead. Sammy was obviously depressed, and feeling defeated, especially without his brother. Don’t you remember when Dean went on with his life when he thought Sammy had been locked up in hell? Sammy’s character is only human after all with human faults. That’s my take on it anyhow.

        • I agree with this. The memory twist is irritating to me, but even if it hadn’t happened the way it did, realistically Dean could not have done anything, just like Sam could not have done anything.

    • There isn’t going to be justification for Dean leaving Cas for dead, unfortunately. That’s another reason why the memory plot twist in this episode is so infuriating. There is no reason why Dean should have not remembered or misinterpreted what actually happened, but now that his guilt is resolved it doesn’t really matter to the show. The whole purgatory storyline just ended up being bollux, looking back on it. You’ll have to forgive me because I can’t remember where I read this, but I remember Jared recently talking about how the first half of the season is focused on Dean, and that the second half of the season will be focused on Sam.

      Sam leaving Dean is a little more complicated. I totally get why Sam gave up. He didn’t know whether Dean died or not, he had no one to turn to because the show has killed off everyone else, he had nowhere to start researching, and most of all because every time the Winchesters bring each other back something terrible happens. Sam is able to become the vessel, the apocalypse starts, Sam does terrible things when he’s soulless. So I get all of that. I don’t think it’s necessarily out of character for Sam to do what he did. What bothers me is that we didn’t get to see how Sam reacted to the situation. We didn’t get to see the immediate aftermath of the season 7 finale for Sam. We got hints of how it affected Sam, like when he hit the dog and he seemed to be triggered by the incident, recalling his mental and physical trauma, but hints aren’t enough. And while I understand his relationship with Amelia, I don’t find his storyline thus far to be convincing. It feels very disconnected, and part of that is due to the flashback method this season is using (which is something that typically does not work… time jumps almost never work, and typically end up damaging another part of the story in some way).

      • Perhaps it is due to all they have been through. How would you be, realistically, if you had experienced even half of what they have.

        I don’t see how Dean could have saved Castiel from purgatory after he was spit out and the rip was sealed. That would seem a little over the top even for Supernatural. Don’t forget, it took several angels to retrieve Cass from purgatory with most not making it out. Besides, that is like saying, why didn’t they ever go back into hell and save their baby brother. I believe he is still stuck down there somewhere. I think it would have made Dean seem extremely inhumane if he wasn’t plagued by pangs of guilt over Cass being left behind. Especially since he couldn’t remember what had actually happened. From what I saw, Dean was trying frantically to save Cass. It was Cass who pushed Dean through the rip. It seems perfectly normal to me that Dean wouldn’t remember the details of the escape; that Cass didn’t want to leave. Perhaps Dean’s brain couldn’t process it because it didn’t seem logical. Or perhaps, after escaping through the rip, his memories simply weren’t clear. I think Dean is so use to blaming himself for failing to save someone, even when it isn’t his responsibility, that he simply assumed it was his fault that Cass was left behind.

        As for Sammy, I think he simply felt exhausted, lost, and all alone. He didn’t know what happened to Dean or Castiel. They were there one minute and suddenly they were gone. Not to mention, Kevin was taken away by Crowley (head master of hell). And…Bobby was dead. Sammy was obviously depressed, and feeling defeated, especially without his brother. Don’t you remember when Dean went on with his life when he thought Sammy had been locked up in hell? Sammy’s character is only human after all with human faults. That’s my take on it anyhow.

        • I agree that it makes sense why Dean didn’t look for Cas, and I agree that it makes sense why Sam didn’t look for Dean. I just find the memory twist in this episode to be ridiculous.

      • As for the memory plot twist; The wrong perspective and the guilt were most likely a human defense mechanism. Human memory plays a lot of tricks on us, so we’ll feel ok with the reality. A person can ‘misremember’ things in order to feel they’re right, they’re a good person or not to feel helpless. Dean remembered things differently so he won’t have to deal with such an inhumane deterministic situation, natural for Cass as an angel. Cass was strong enough and just choose to stay in purgatory, knowing he needed to do penance, this was his will. Dean, being a human, was better suited to deal with the guilt, to feel he failed Cass, rather then with Cass’ will to stay in the purgatory, which would leave him incapable to change a thing. Note, Cass only reveals this to Dean when they’re both out and the situation is no longer a part of Dean’s present reality. Dean might have not been able to withstand leaving Purgatory on his own were Cass to tell him earlier.

        • I don’t think Dean would have been able to deal with leaving without Cas either, it’s clear that he was gonna stick with him to the end. But if they wanted to do a story about Dean blaming himself for everything and then learning that not everything is his responsibility, it could have been done so much better than this.

          Firstly, the twist still doesn’t make any sense. Cas threw away his hand and screamed at him. You don’t misremember something like that. It was really just as lazy and convenient as you can get. The entire ‘what happened to Cas?’ mini-episode dragged on for seven episodes, and in the end it wasn’t even really a big question at all… but I don’t really get what the audience was supposed to think. Because it’s clear Cas is being used for whumping again (just like with how Cas is now being manipulated by the new angels), since the show can’t use Sam or Dean for that, and it’s clear that the show is, to quote a fan-made term I feel is appropriate, “Cas-baiting”, which it’s been doing since he disappeared in season 7, to bring fans of Cas in to watch the show (the episode 6 promo was edited to have Cas in it). Dean in his mind already knew what happened to Cas. He thought that Cas just gave up and that he failed him, which was basically half right. But the audience didn’t know that until the whole “I just don’t understand why he didn’t try harder” until the same episode where he came back. Even more, at the end of the second episode, the sequence with Cas rolling down the hill was edited to look like Dean was the one who let go, and that Cas actually wanted to go with and was surprised when he left… which– if it was from Dean’s perspective, why were we seeing Cas after the portal had closed when he screamed Dean’s name? In the first episode, we were told that things got hairy near the end and that Cas “let go”, which suggests some kind of monstrous fate, some darker fate than what actually happened, or what was merely hinted of happening in any following episode. I just really don’t understand where in the world the show was going with this story.

          It was always going to be revealed that Cas simply did not want to leave. Which I think is a missed opportunity in itself. Like I said, if the show wanted to explore a storyline about Cas not wanting to be saved and Dean feeling everything is his responsibility, there are other ways this could have been done (purgatory was so underutilized it’s sad). But that’s not really the main issue I guess, because the show settled on what it wanted to do. The problem is that they decided to make it all about ~what really happened to Cas for six episodes straight by leading us on with red herrings, all of which turned out to be total moot in episode 7 with the memory twist. It would have made more sense to explore how Dean felt about the situation rather then leaving his thoughts almost entirely in the dark. And it certainly would have helped with the other problem of the entire twist; that it revolved around Dean’s guilt. There would have been time to explore how Cas felt about the situation, or to explore how Dean feels about how Cas feels, and back and forth, or how purgatory affected, or anything else remotely additive, if time hadn’t been spent to deliberately mislead the audience.

    • Also look at it this way; last time they opened a gate to purgatory, the leviathans got out. They had to chain Death to get him to make another eclipse for them to open it again.

      I saw a comment on another website that I thought might give you insight into how Sam and Dean dealt with abandonment guilt. One of the reasons why Dean was so harsh on Sam for not looking for him is because he feels guilty about abandoning Cas. He’s not able to bring Cas back, if he’s even still alive, and he takes out some of that anger on Sam. Sam was triggered to recall his past mental and physical trauma when he ran into the dog, and he didn’t even volunteer to take the dog home at first because he felt so guilty about hurting it that he didn’t want to be around it… he just wanted to drop him off, know that he would be okay, and then leave. As others have said… fight or flight. Dean is fight and Sam is flight, and this season set out to explore how they reacted to their year apart differently. Of course, whether or not you agree that the execution is working is up to you, but.

  11. I have been a loyal fan of Supernatural since day one of its introduction. I love the show and believe it is indeed the best on television. There have been a few times that they have gotten off the story line and I have wondered why. Sometimes the episode was good; others not so much. But I wouldn’t stop watching for anything in the world. I am really happy that they have decided to extend it through Season 10. I would love to see it go on and on if it were up to me. I’m not sure why Bobby was written out of the script. I know it was a really sad episode for me when they burned his remains. Perhaps he didn’t want to continue on with the show. Sometimes actors want to move on. I love the character Castiel. I have from the moment he was introduced. I think the show wouldn’t be the same without him. He adds a perfect bit of humor to the show. I don’t get why anyone wouldn’t like him. And Garth, he is a riot. I would love to see him become a regular guest of the show like Bobby was. All in all, I love Supernatural, think the cast is awesome, and the writers talented. I am really looking forward to seeing next week’s episode. It looks pretty funny. I love the humor. From your ever lasting fan. I am with you through the good and bad.

    • I would like to add, after reading some of the other comments, I too wish Bobby’s character had never been written out. It is like losing a loved one and I miss him a lot. Maybe sometime down the road they will bring him back. One can only hope. I agree that no one can replace another but, to me, I don’t think that is what Garth’s character was trying to do. I think Garth really misses Bobby and it is his own way of dealing with the loss. We all grieve in different ways. Considering how long it has been since Garth was last on the show, I don’t see where it would seem odd that his character would have evolved during that time frame. It is certainly possible that it could have occurred “behind the scenes”. He did say that he had been hunting for awhile now. Anyhow, I like Garth’s character. I think it adds spice to the show just as Castiel’s character does. The only complaint that I have is when Dean is giving his brother such as hard time. It seems like Dean does it beyond what is called for. I want to tell Sammy “stand up for yourself”. Anyhow, that’s my two cents worth. Have a Happy Thanksgiving one and all.

  12. Sam and Dean out of character?
    Does Dean needs to stay away from friendships with monsters, and Sam has to drink demon blood when dean is not around to be in character?! Please..
    Sam being more mature than Dean for the first time makes them out of character, they have change because of the circumstances they have been through..Dean was alone in purgatory, so he made a friend, Sam didn’t know what to do or go, so he quit. Is there something out of character?

    • Agree, being more mature doesn’t make them out of character, Sam being more mature than Dean doesn’t make them out of character.

  13. I’m not seeing any OOC behaviour so far this season- rather I feel like we are getting better developed growth in our characters. Dean and Sam have been apart a year and actually made choices during that year that were not related to each other and now they are dealing with what that means for them as a unit going forward. I love it. I am enjoying Sam not having some special affliction and being all business since he wants out, and Dean actually being honest about all that baggage he carries-its refreshing. I also love the cleaner feel of the whole mytharc this season- I love the Trans, Crowley, Benny and Cas being back. This episode is my favourite of this season and is probably top five of the last two seasons, it packed s loft in but ,moved forward. That’s what has felt like has been missing for a while, nothing progressed. Now it has a pace and continuity that feels way more organic than in 6 or 7 though they did try and address that towards the end of those seasons, its nice to have it right off the bat so far in Season Gr8. Part of me wants Bobby back, but another wishes his send off got to be Deaths Door as it was an amazing episode and performance, so I am in two minds about it. I am so excited to have Amanda Tapping in SPN I cannot stand it. Quality.