5 Reasons Why ‘Superman vs. Batman’ Can Be the Next Big DC Superhero Movie

Published 1 year ago by , Updated April 15th, 2014 at 11:23 am, This is a list post.

Batman Superman Movie Discussion Fight Villains Story We've been running this series of articles for a few installments, but up until now, the potential DC superhero films we've discussed (Aquaman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Justice League) have been just that: potential films. As in, non-existent. However, DC and Warner Bros.' upcoming Batman vs. Superman sequel to Man of Steel is already a reality - only it's a reality that many (so-called) fans have been quite skeptical about, thus far. So, while we can't discuss why the teaming of the 'World's Finest' would be a success if they made it into a movie, we can discuss why the movie will be a success if they do it right. READ our 5 Reasons that Batman vs. Superman CAN be the next big DC superhero movie...

The Story

Superman Batman movie Story - Lex Luthor and  Bruce Wayne Man of Steel left us with a Superman who debuted to the world via a city-collapsing battle that left many dead. Anyone who knows The Dark Knight - the one who exists in a super-powered Justice League universe - knows that he is not okay with idea of a god-like alien running around unchecked, beholden to no one. That's a great foundation for a Superman/Batman story. Imagine: After the "Battle of Metropolis" Lex Luthor emerges as a hardline anti-Superman political figure, who rebuilds Metropolis with the help of fellow industrialist Bruce Wayne. Meanwhile, the two brilliant businessmen discover a "deterrent" to the Superman problem in the form of Kryptonite. Bruce/Batman starts off going against Superman and humbles the Man of Steel by using Kryptonite to beat him; Lex is eventually revealed as a villain (with a Metallo henchman?); the two heroes must work together (brains AND brawn) to stop him; and in the end, Supes and Bats establish a mutual level of respect and trust to bond them... We're just spit-balling here, but you see how this could all easily work, right?    

The Characters

Batman Superman Movie - Clark Kent, Lois Lane, Bruce Wayne The best tactic in a good "buddy-cop" story  - especially superhero buddy-cop stories - is having characters who are proper foils for one another (i.e., balance one another out). Batman and Superman are more than characters - they are almost yin and yang archetypes that serve as metaphors for just about any conflicting philosophies you can think of (idealism vs. cynicism, brains vs. brawn, etc.). It's the same reason that Batman vs. The Joker or Superman vs. Lex Luthor tend to be the best rivalries: dynamic contrast. And, in the case of Batman and Superman, there are great rivalry AND friendship dynamics at work between these two titans of heroism. It's not just the Superman/Batman dynamic that is golden: Bruce Wayne and Clark Kent work great together, as well. Bruce can literally buy and own The Daily Planet, while Clark (as an investigative reporter) can easily infiltrate the seedy underworld where Batman gets his hands dirty. The opportunities for farmboy vs. billionaire banter are limitless (both before and after alter-egos are exposed) and when you throw Lois Lane in the middle, you have the cherry to top it all off.

The Fight

Batman Superman Movie Fight Scenes This is the big thing that has people talking and arguing all over the Interwebs:  How can Batman POSSIBLY stand up to Superman in battle? In case you don't know: Batman has won several decisive victories over Superman in comic book canon. In fact, a Batman victory speech from the comics was the very thing quoted during the Batman/Superman movie announcement at SDCC '13. "But how does Batman, a mere human, win against Superman, a god?" you may still be asking. The answer is simple: Batman always has a plan. Superman (as Batman often likes to point out) throws brute force at every problem and is too comfortable with his own imperviousness. Bruce Wayne and/or Lex Luthor are prime characters to expose those hubrises, either via Kryptonite or a public stance against Superman's threat to the world as a living WMD. Indeed, the next stage in the Man of Steel's development may be the humility of discovering that he is both accountable to and vulnerable to mankind's wrath. We look forward to The Dark Knight pulling off some epic battle plan to take Superman apart piece-by-piece, in the way that only Batman can.

The Iconography

Batman Superman New 52_by_lazerbat-d63ut0l As we keep stressing: this pairing of icons is not oil and water, it's oil and vinegar. Batman and Superman are better defined as individuals when juxtaposed to one another - and in that comparison they also form the two polar ends of the DC superhero spectrum. Batman and Superman on screen together is more than just a movie - it's a milestone. Whether you are the geek who dreamed about, discussed and debated this event for years on end, or the casual observer who has found him/herself oddly perplexed by the question of which hero best represents your personality (Batman or Superman), this team-up is so iconic and riddled with symbolic depth that the movie will practically sell itself. ...And if Tony Stark and Nick Fury's meeting was epic enough to galvanize an Avengers universe, there's little doubt that the sheer iconography of having Superman and Batman in the same frame of film will be enough to give birth to an entire Justice League universe. (Artwork by Jim Lee w/ inks & colors by Swave18 & LazerBat)

Continuity

Justice League New 52 Movie Do we really need to say it again? Batman and Superman form the polar ends of the DC superhero universe, leaving an open door for future characters to fill in the middle. And with Batman vs. Superman allegedly building right on top of the events of Man of Steel, a Justice League universe continuity is officially being established. By the time Batman vs. Superman is done, the mutual respect between The World's Finest can act as the solid foundation upon which a Justice League team is built. Superman can be a little bit more vulnerable and more of the responsible boy scout that fans love, while Batman can be reintroduced to the world as a tactical genius badass who is able to stand alongside the most powerful being in the world, while also becoming more open-minded to the idea of friendship and partnership. Where the DC universe goes after that is still an open debate, but in terms of building continuity on top of Man of Steel, Batman vs. Superman is in a better position than most other DC superhero movies would be. (However, CLICK the following links to read our theories on why Aquaman, Wonder Woman and Flash movies could work just as well.)

Justice League Movie - Solo Character Films Below is a quick bullet list of our responses  to some of the more pronounced criticisms of Batman vs. Superman, which we addressed in greater detail within the article.
  • It's too soon to reboot Batman - Actually, we need a Batman who can exist in a superhuman reality. Nolan's version isn't really that.
  • Batman and Superman don't fit together - Actually the characters and their worlds fit together like PB&J. See HERE or HERE.
  • Batman couldn't last 2 seconds against Superman - If you read the comics, you'll see that Batman uses smart tactics to counter Superman's unlimited power.
  • It's too soon for this - Are you kidding? Some of us have been waiting DECADES for this happen!
_______ Batman vs. Superman will be in theaters sometime in 2015. All comic book artwork is the property of DC comics; Superman/Batman logo by  Balsavor @ DeviantART 
TAGS: batman, batman vs superman, man of steel, superman

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  1. Zack Snider and David Goyer are Zuckerberg and everybody complaining about this movie before it has even began filming are like every pissed off Facebook user. Who complains about new changes but is right back on it the next day.You guys need to CHILLAX since none of you here have the experience and talent Goyer has or you would not be posting on sites but making millions doing what he is doing, actually making movies. I’m pretty sure they will be having the best consultants in the writing process and they will put together a great movie. And how do I know this? Because I’m smarter than you :p

    • I agree. Coz I’m just as smart as you.

    • I LOVE how Outlaw called them “so called” fans. lol. I can’t believe anyone actually believed they would be casting an old Batman simply because they stated he would be “older and wiser” than Superman since……… HE’S IS SUPPOSED TO BE. lol. Even funnier is folks believing they would actually be using a Versus title. smh.. Anyway, I’m looking forward to this.

    • Finally. Someone who understands. Thankyou

    • you honestly think that just because he is rich he is going to make this movie great? affleck sucks and should not be batman, not to mention that superman is about 100000000xs out of batmans league, stupid comments you made, please don’t ever post again.

      • Totally agree. I love Batman, but he’s no match for Superman. Check out Angry Joe’s perfect explanation video on this. What’s with all this talk of Superman being the brawn and Batman being the brains? Superman is brawn and brains, with even more brawn.

        I’m dreading this movie. The title alone sucks. I know Batman and Superman will being working together by the end of the movie, but the whole VERSUS thing is an immature, juvenile title. The Avengers had some clashes of superheroes, but it was a few quick scenes, not a big deal. I’m not saying “Do everything the Avengers did”, but that movie handled it well. At heart, we all love superheroes knocking each other around and big action scenes. But adults need some drama.

        Plus, the casting for this movie is rancid.

        • You didn’t read the article or purposefully ignored that batmans beaten superman more than once. You clearly no nothing about either heroes. I doubt you’ve even read a comic.

  2. There are a ton of reasons why rebooting batman is a VERY bad idea. Movie critics who have no desire to care about team ups or alternate comic book standalone stories have already DESTROYED and critically PANNED two reboots in Man of Steel and Amazing spiderman.

    Both story lines were respectable. And as comic book fans were used too new universes and new characters based on old archetypes but the “normal” world isnt.

    HOWEVER THERE ARE TWO MAJOR REDEEMING THINGS THAT COME WITH A REBOOTED BATMAN.

    Number 1 is a ARKHAM STYLE BATMAN. and Number 2 is JOKER’S RETURN IN THE FUTURE!

    ha ha ha ha ha ha ha he he he he (joker voice)

    • The Amazing Spider Man was a critical success….It has a 73% on Rotten Tomatoes. Man of Steel wasn’t destroyed critically…it was received lukewarm…56% on Rotten Tomatoes…it really isn’t that hard to find.

      • Rotten Tomatoes is garbage. I decided to cross ref the Iron Man 3″critics” that also critiqued MoS as well. About 80% gave it rotten and IM3 was worse than MoS by far. So don’t listen to a bunch of critics… I’m probably better than most of them and for all I know you are. The only thing that should matter for superhero movies is were you entertained. Hate it when people get all intense for no reason.

    • What is the ton of reasons? I would challenge anyone to come up with 5 very good… heck just 5 good reasons why rebooting Batman is a bad idea.

      With supporting evidence.

      You may have a ton of reasons why you THINK it may be a bad idea however I think it would be very difficult to come up with 2 good (valid) reasons.

      • Five good reasons why rebooting Batman is a bad idea? You’re too nice. I challenge them to come up with two good reasons. Just two. And they lose a turn if their argument starts with “Christian Bale…”. By now, if they can’t appreciate the simple fact that Nolan’s Dark Knight series is a closed entity, then there really is no conversation to be had there.

      • I don’t think it’s a bad idea but I tried to come up with a few just because I like a challenge (and sometimes am a devil’s advocate)…

        And I failed. You have broken me. The best thing to say now is that the only thing that comes to those who resist change is to be left behind.

        But yeah I’ really am looking forward to a new suit (dark gray and black like Arkham, leather-ish cowl/cape that drapes over the shoulders like a cloak, etc.) new actor, and a new Batman style & M.O. Again Arkham (in the new video game trailer going up against Deadshot) was awesome. Just make him just like that and it’d be great!

      • 1. No Christian Bale.
        2. Ra’s al Ghul is alive!
        3. The Joker is alive!
        4. Talia is alive!
        5. Bane is alive!
        6. No weird Batman voice!
        7. Batman can be an actual detective again!
        8. There can actually be a Gotham City again instead of Chicago!
        9. A new Alfred!
        10. A Batwing!
        11. We can have Dick Grayson in the movie!
        12. Two Face will be alive!

        • Pawn these are all reasons why a reboot would be a GOOD idea. I.e. you’re stating the obvious.

        • @pawn65
          I don’t know what good you see in having an old buzzard Batman who will basically keep gasping for his breath. There’s no point in Nolanverse trolling. What matters is there are billions out there who want Bale to remain as Batman. Just be contented with the reboot and stay put.

          Even if you fantasize all the Batman villains being up and kicking in the reboot, they’ll be nowhere in the league of Nolan’s villains, especially that of Heath’s Joker. Worse, they’ll be Snyder’s villains, that spells doomsday all over.

          Nobody cares whether Two-Face is alive or not. The character has been used twice till now, in Batman Forever too, so that’s enough. No one can replicate Eckhart’s Two-Face, or his burnt visage. There’re plenty of better villains out there like Hush, Deadshot, Deathstroke and Black Mask who deserve their stage.

          Christian Bale’s voice wasn’t funny. It was pitch-perfect in Batman Begins, got a little whammy in The Dark Knight but got it back in Rises. In fact, he’s the only live-action actor who followed Kevin Conroy’s style of having two different voices.

          You probably haven’t seen The Dark Knight if you haven’t seen Batman as “detective”. The way Bale’s Batman could locate his suspects’ targets through skyhook, sonar and sonic transponders was iconic as in the comics.
          He intercepted police frequencies through WayneTech receivers about Joker’s leads, then he drilled out the brick with the bullet, ran it through a ballistic test for fingerprints. Even as Bruce Wayne, he could avert Gordon’s road killer by hacking into police databases. Plus how he could flush out the entire Prewitt Building in the climax with sonar and sticky bombs without a single human casuality.

          Sorry to burst your bubble, but Batman vs. Superman will be shot in Toronto, which is much less “Gotham-ic” than Chicago.

          Regardless of whoever Alfred will be in the reboot, Michael Caine will always remain the best and the most motivational portrayal of the character.

          I hope I have countered your argument convincingly.

          • @Vish Gos:

            “Christian Bale’s voice wasn’t funny. It was pitch-perfect in Batman Begins, got a little whammy in The Dark Knight but got it back in Rises. In fact, he’s the only live-action actor who followed Kevin Conroy’s style of having two different voices.”

            You’re obviously a Bale die-hard. Even most people who love how Bale portrayed Batman can admit that his BatLisp was comedic. It would not have spawned so many YouTube parodies otherwise.

            I think this is the first time I’ve ever heard someone describe it as “pitch-perfect”, was there a part where Bale sang a song that I missed?

            I haven’t seen it in a while, but I thought Keaton tried to change his voice when he was Bats. Isn’t that where the whole “I’m Batman” meme came from?

            I’m not sure if that was “detective” work as you describe it in TDK, that was more like forensics and tactical planning, but it still didn’t portray to me how “smart” Batman is. Caine played a good Alfred but Micheal Gough was good too. I just find it weird that both movie Alfreds were missing his trademark thin mustache.

            • @BigNerd
              *sigh*
              Its difficult to loosen you up. My point was that Bale’s performance should be read handsomely from Batman Begins, even people who complained about “BatLisp”, rank Batman Begins above The Dark Knight solely because of Bale’s performance. But yes, I shouldn’t have used “pitch-perfect”.

              And please don’t bring up Michael Keaton. He already received 50,000 complaint letters via WB before his role, and he’s too short. Just making a point. Keaton never did voice alterations to the extent of Keaton/Bale. And the lame part when he tells Nicholson’s Joker, “Would you like to dance with the devil in pale moonlight?” is enough for laughs.

              • @Vish Gos:

                Hey… I’m loose… wait… that didn’t come out right.

                I didn’t say I liked Keaton, I was just saying that I don’t think Bale was the first to use a “BatVoice”. Bale was the first to use a BatLisp… that I will give you.

                Bale isn’t very tall either… or big… physically I don’t he matched Batman either.

          • Seeing how your idea of who the best Joker is I guess we will agree to disagree.

            That wasnt detective skills, but how bad man figured what was causing people to die with a joker face in the 1989 Batman was detective work.

            Michael Caine was horrible as Alfred Pennyworth.

            Seeing how batman would be in his 30s or 40s i dont see how he could be an old buzzard.

            Yes that can replicate two face make up and yes someone else could do it better.

            Bales batman voice makes it sound like hes on the pooper.

        • pawn65, you’re the man! All of these reasons are exactly why we NEED a Batman reboot. And I would love solo titles for all the characters before team-up movies. Not necessarily an origins story, but some introductory movie for Bats.

          I think this Batman versus Superman is going to suck ass.

  3. The conflict could be that Bruce Wayne feels incredibly ripped off to spend so much money developing a mask only to find that the new guy only had to put on a pair of glasses to conceal his identity.

    • Because Bruce Wayne is a celebrity

  4. Am I the only one whose immediate concern is a new Batman suit and not the same “wet look” Black one we’ve had since circa 1990?
    An older Black and Grey suited Frank Miller-esque Batman would be dope!

  5. The ONLY reason to do this is continuity. DC/Warner needs to find a common ground to bring in their stable of heroes.

    I could care less if they duplicate Marvels blueprints (within reason) I have read enough comics across various publishers to know (along with movies) there are no more original ideas. There are slight twists and turns of ideas but when broken down its the same idea.

    What they dont need to do is:

    1. Rush.
    2. Go to Slow.
    3. Throw characters in just to throw them in
    4. Make it real. (read Nolanize and please keep your pantiesunbunched)

    Just use capable writers, actors and directors making sure you collaborate. You dont need bang whizz people if it all can work together.

    • Right on, I agree. DC is rushing to catch up to Marvel. It’s gonna sabotage DC films’ future.

  6. Meh. No kryptonite. MoS is too realistic. This movie is going to fail.

    • Was the statement no K in MoS or no K in the universe as a whole? As for realistic (and you will find no big a hater of realistic in comic movies then me) what do you mean?

      I actually (semi) enjoyed the path they took. They did not hogtie themselves into a Nolan (read NO SUPERS) corner.

      There is nothing there (so far) to lead me to believe there is no Martian Manhunter, Animal Man, Cyborg (using K tech;)), Wonder Woman, Booster Gold, Dr. Fate, etc and so forth. Unlike the Batman series where it was stated point blank there would be none of that stuff.

      They need to just take it slow. Let the world get use to the first super and go from there.

  7. I really thought a younger batman would have been better. Batman really should not be beating Supes. Supes is the leader of the JLA so he should have the final authority and be the boss.

    • No one can beat Superman. Look at Injustice: Gods Among Us. We got an evil Superman, what do we do? Get another Superman to beat him.

      But I am really damn tired of this “Superman versus Batman” crap. Batman is cool, but he can’t beat Superman. Never has in canon. The only comics that do this are by writers that hate Superman, and see him as too straight-laced, patriotic, and authoritarian. Superman is not that way at all.

  8. My thoughts would be to not worry about a Justice League movie. I think Batman and Superman together have far more pulling power.

    Add that the more serious tone of the Nolan style universe will be more credible if not every second person were super powered.

  9. I think the best way for Batman to have his victory over Superman is not to actually beat him physically, but instead defeat him mentally, morally and tactically. Prove that Superman and his approach is not better in every aspect overall.

    Have him manage to get Superman to a point of weakness where he actually manages to get a punch, make him bleed. 300′s Leonidas vs. Xerces would be a great format. Make it Pyrrhic, but just enough to prove his point – that Superman will not be the one and only power in their world, and proving that Batman can truly back up his lack of trust in Superman if need be.

    Really the best approach would be an exploration of their different tactics to approach the same problem, Luthor – a technological, tactical, political and even slightly physical villain.

    Batman can take him on politically, financially, technologically and can even go all-out in his battles against his minions (which Superman cannot and will not do after the damage of the battle with Zod and his subsequent precarious image), which will in turn achieve something that Superman cannot – he can inflict fear, and engage in psychological warfare beyond just his fists.

    This can even borrow themes from Nolan’s The Dark Knight – Maroni’s speech to Batman, “They’re wise to your game. They know you have rules, and won’t kill” etc. etc. Except instead of being Joker’s darkness over Batman’s, it will be Batman’s over Superman’s. This is the very theme of Batman himself, after all; he’s called the “Dark” Knight for a reason.

    So Superman and Batman will work not-quite together as much as both against a common enemy, and Batman’s theme will be always outperforming Superman in a plethora of various, ingenious, and dirty (if need be) ways, with his “victory” over him being when he finally makes true his threat to hold Superman back during some final confrontation against Luthor, Pyrrhic though it may be. To borrow from Nolan again, it would be similar to the ending of The Dark Knight vs. Harvey, and in the end Superman develops a very deep respect for Batman.

    The overall approach of the movie could be Superman’s observation/perspective of Batman (which retains his mysteriousness – even keeping Bruce Wayne and Batman relatively separate), while still telling Superman’s story, since it’s the “sequel” to Man of Steel.

    Essentially 90% story-driven so we can truly see the depth of how these two bookends of the “super” world can interact, with specially effects to simply portray Superman realistically, to showcase and even admonish the nature of his powers and abilities – all the more palpable because at this point, after Man of Steel and years of refinement, Superman will constantly be holding back considerably.

    +1′s Screen Rant over.

  10. The fact is that the film is in the works. No matter how many theories we have, the one that matters is the one the writers already have in their mind.

    Just be careful not to praise a writer to the point of considering him a “genius” and they don’t make mistakes.

    Mr Goyer did well in films such as Blade I and II but he totally lost it in the third. He did well with Batman but he fell short with Jumper. Other films panned by critics and people alike were The Unborn and Spirit of Vengeance. As long as the writers keep their feet on the ground, they will have the chance to offer a story that is worth watching.

  11. I just want the writer to know that this article is brilliant. Thank you.

  12. I want Gerard Butler to play Bruce Wayne/Batman for this Zack Snyder-helmed Batman/Superman movie. Butler kicked major ass in Olympus has Fallen and will surely beat the crap out of Henry Cavill in this sequel.

    • Gerard Butler, interesting choice. “This..Is…Gotham!”
      Sorry, couldn’t help myself there.

  13. As much as I liked Bale’s performance in the Nolan trilogy, he should definitely NOT be in Batman v Superman. It would completely undermine his version of Bruce Wayne’s character arc.
    Why would his version of Wayne come back to Gotham when he always said he was only trying to be a symbol, that ‘anyone can be Batman’ and someone has now picked up the mantle in the form of Robin? It makes no sense, especially considering TDKR was all about him bouncing back from Rachel Dawes’ death.
    If he found himself in a place of hope at the end, why would he rush back and completely undo that positive move? You’d need to spend an age in the movie making such a backtrack belivable – where’d you find the screen time to do it justice in a movie with Supes, a big bad necessary for them to team up, and possible secondary villains from both of their cities as well?

    For me, Anson Mount/Karl Urban for Batman and Jason Isaacs/Billy Zane for Luthor

  14. WHY WOULD PEOPLE WANT SUPERMAN TO BE WEAKER!!!!HE’S SUPERMAN!!!Batman is smart also so im hoping Zack doesnt allow him to get beat up. He almost a God, please show his power

  15. Get real:

    Bale is the best Batman.
    Caine is the best Alfred.
    Nolan is the best director.
    Oldman is the best Gordon.

    Batman Vs. Superman has Nolan and Zach Snyder. It is in good hands and is going to be great because Affleck can fit into the seasoned Batman role. Maybe not like Bale or Keaton but in his own way he is not supposed to portray the character like them.

    • Bale is the best film Batman, but not the best by far. The one in the Arkham games is far superior. The writing went downhill in The Dark Knight once Two-Face’s plot began. And The Dark Knight Rises was utter garbage. And I do get the idea of a new style of Batman, but Affleck is a terrible choice. Why can’t we have some unknown actor? The whole over-milked idea of Batman versus Superman is stupid.

  16. For the record, in the comic book pantheon: Batman has NEVER beaten Superman in a fight. Ever. Any time the two have fought and Batman ever got CLOSE to winning, it was because of backup (DKR he had Robin, Green Arrow, and the nuclear missile and in Hush he needed Catwoman to kidnap Lois), the infamous Kryptonite, and often he had to either fake his own death or distract Superman with something else to get Clark from turning him into paste. Every other time, Batman flat out lost (and in the case of Red Son, he committed suicide.)

    And for the record, Hush and DKR are the only two fights where Batman actually put up a proper fight against Superman and he STILL admits (directly or through his actions) Clark could’ve just killed him in two seconds, but won’t because he doesn’t want to hurt his best friend. Bruce himself has a pretty low self-esteem on that front if he has to keep proving he can beat Clark when he can’t.

    Everyone loves to reference photos of Batman punching Superman with the Kryptonite ring, but I can pull at least a dozen more photos of Superman putting Batman down in less than a second. If the film follows suit, Batman may get a few good shots in but there won’t be a definitive winner or loser and more than likely have his tuchas handed to him inside out and upside down first time he tries to fight Superman (to the point it makes us laugh.) and only get a cheap shot when he DOES get the green stuff, get himself WAAAY in over his head and have Superman save his hide in the last second then the big team-up.

    • Thanks for speaking some sense Matt M!

      Plus, kryptonite is only as powerful as the writers make it. Superman regularly beats Metallo and Kryptonite Man, as well as Lex Luthor (the smartest man on the planet – sorry Bruce Wayne – who also uses kryptonite). But Batman uses a tiny Ring Pop and suddenly Superman is dying. BS! Not to mention, that Superman can beat Braniac, the most intelligent thing in the universe.

  17. What a b*******,talia,bane,harvey dent is alive,how is it the part between dark knight triology…!
    Christian bale leaves his character,that his issue,but there is no need to change the old alfred…!
    and first dick greyson is first become robin then nightwing…,how directly nightwing…

  18. Batman has NEVER defeated Superman in canon, and actually I dont think they have ever fought in canon. They have fought in elseworld stories that are not part of the main DC canon. So please, get your comicbook lore right :)

  19. I do not think the idea that Batman can beat Superman in a physical fight is valid even if it may have appeared in the comics. That is writers taking too many liberties. I do think writers have given Superman too much power. For example, traveling faster than the speed of light. What would be good to see that humbles Superman is that in this fight against Batman he sees the damage he is doing to both property and people and realizes he must be more responsible for his actions. Of course to bring this point to Superman’s mind Batman, with his superior reasoning capability, makes Superman see this fact. As a result, and making it part of Batman’s plan on how to win this fight without actually physically winning, Superman concedes the fight to a beaten Batman. I never have like the idea that Superman is some how stupid compared to Batman. That is why I somewhat liked All Star Superman. He was super intelligent and super strong, but not invincible.

  20. I’d like to weigh in here. It’s mostly going to be anecdotal, because I’d like to give what I think will be the general reception of a Batman vs Superman movie.

    (Word count is about 2500 words total. Be prepared. It’s a full on essay.)

    Disclosure: I’m a 25 year old dude, who never watched the Superman or Justice League cartoons until about a year ago. I grew up with my Dad’s 70s Superman comics, and Batman TAS, and they are what informed my take on these characters.

    I watched the STAS + JL cartoons, and a bunch of the animated movies, before I was even aware that “Batman vs Superman” was even really a thing. I was honestly astonished to discover it’s a source of controversy or contention, and let me explain why. (If the above doesn’t tell you already.)

    My take: Batman vs Superman is a badly conceived project. The idea of it is just innately silly.

    This is actually okay to some extent, because comics operate on pretty silly logic. So when I saw ‘Crisis on Two Earths’, I was just ‘lol, Batman taking on evil Superwoman in Ripley’s mech suit is pretty ludicrous, but it’s cool so whatev’.

    That’s how it got a pass.

    ‘The Dark Knight Returns’ was the same deal. No matter how blasted Superman is, shooting slower-than-light missiles and freaking ARROWS at him as a master anti-Superman plan is not a plausible strategy. (One of the comics I remember, was when Superman got hit by a missile the size of Kansas and survived. Then with SG, punched his way through an entire planet made out of guns. Don’t expect me to take TDKR seriously.)

    But because it was such an awesome scene, and because I love Batman, and this was an entirely fresh thing to me that I was interested to see (because mortal taking on god IS an interesting story, as an independent concept), I was totally cool with it. It was obviously a ‘what-if’ alterverse kinda deal, since the whole movie was totally unlike any Superman or Batman related thing I was familiar with, which is why I could accept the nerfage of “Superman”.

    Cartoons and comics, you can let that slide to a certain extent.

    There are two ways in which it becomes a problem, and both these rules are starting to be violated.

    1) Over-exposure.

    Batman beating Superman is an event. A one-time event. Because the odds are so ridiculously loaded against Batman. And you just don’t take it seriously in the first place. It’s like those ‘what if Superman got married to Lois and had a baby with it’s head mutated by Luthor to make him a supersupergenius psychobaby?’ stories.

    But when Batman beating Superman, or even having any sort of competent struggle against Superman, on less than once-in-a-lifetime basis, it’s just gets dumb. And from what I’ve heard, it’s become a trend in the comic culture.

    Batman and Superman are just not on the same plane. They’re both ridiculously cool, but ‘coolness’ is not a measure of power.

    2) Realism.

    The main reason that this cannot fly in a live-action film, is because it’s live action, and the Nolan/Snyder films, there’s a standard of pseudo-realism to be maintained.

    Batman beating Superman is unrealistic.

    Just to give more anecdotal perspective.

    I had a hard time accepting, even as a kid, that Superman and Batman even existing in the same world, was anything less than embarrassing for Batman. And nothing my dad said would convince me otherwise. It had nothing to do with my feelings about either character, since the idea of anyone disliking either Superman or Batman would have been anathema to me, but that they obviously were in completely different worlds in terms of crime-fighting.

    But Batman had one thing to offer. And that was his detective skills. That’s seriously it. That’s as far as I could believe it, and that’s as far as any of the ‘World’s Finest’ I read, ever went. Even one of Superman’s robots was more than Batman could conceivably handle.

    What happens, in my opinion, when you try to create a Justice League, where Batman stands with Superman and can BEAT him, is two things.

    1) Batman is no longer really Batman.

    2) Superman is no longer Superman.

    See, here’s the thing. Neither of these two, are villains. They are both on the good side of ‘Good always triumphs over Evil’. So Batman beating Superman cannot be excused with say, Batman beating Croc or Bane, who are stronger than he is. And in fact they are good examples as to the power difference.

    Bane has a weakness, his Venom plug. Bane is the most powerful physical threat to Batman, he tests Batman’s every limit. And yet does anyone think that Bane could pose a threat to Superman?

    Even ‘Good beats Evil’ has limits. Batman taking on Darkseid for instance, is as dumb a concept as him taking on Superman. Darkseid doesn’t even have a vulnerability. Croc and Bane are his top tier physical villains.

    When people argue ‘Batman always finds a way’ or that exploiting weakness, or being really smart, is Batman’s thing, like they’re superpowers (or the laws of physics), this is ignoring a number of important things.

    1) ‘Superman always wins’ is *Superman’s* thing too.

    2) Superman beats Lex Luthor, the world’s smartest man, on a regular basis. (And Superman is super-intelligent, and spends every day solving impossible problems) The only reason Luthor is even a threat to Superman, is that Superman’s law-abiding, and they can’t pin anything on Luthor, so he never goes to jail, or justice. (Kind of like how Joker is apparently never executed for some reason.)

    And 3, the most important one. The Watchman quote.

    “The world’s smartest man poses no more threat to me than does its smartest termite”

    That neatly encapsulates the problem here.

    It doesn’t matter how Batman is defined in his own universe, or how amazingly clever he is supposed to be, that is about as much use to him as it would be to a brain in a jar. He just doesn’t compete on the same level in any of the areas that Superman has. The fact that Superman has SUPERSPEED alone, makes him untouchable to Batman. The fact that he has superstrength, means that he can punch Batman and his suit right into the sun.

    Because Superman too, has the super-power of ‘always finding a way’, as well as, you know, actually having super-powers.

    And see, I know that cult of Batman (just to distinguish from average fans) will find that aggrandising. I sure your brain has already started to curdle with the unfairness of it all, as you marshal your arguments as to why I’m missing out on vital aspects of Batman. And I understand. This is what happens when people start arguing Batman vs Superman. This is how Superman fans, which will include myself, feel when people argue that Batman has the superpower to beat anyone just because, including the superhero of superheroes, Superman. That’s just a profound lack of a respect for who Superman is, and a complete evisceration of Batman at the same time. It’s like it’s more important to the B over S crowd that Batman takes a dump on Superman, than actually being interesting in his own right.

    Where does that leave characters like Green Arrow, or Wildcat? No-one expects them to beat Superman, yet people still love them as they are.

    What I find particularly indicative is this. Most of the Batman fans in this particular hunt, profess a dislike for Superman (I have a feeling this dislike is largely theoretical. I wonder if it’s anything to do with a dislike of what Superman stands for, rather than anything else). Most of the Superman fans, like Batman. (It’s the contentious over-hype that’s annoying.)

    Batman just shouldn’t be compared to Superman. That’s unfair to Batman, and it leads to the frustrating internet debates we have here.

    So I don’t even know how this whole Batman vs Superman thing got started. ‘Batman always wins’ was just a fun joke, like his anti-shark spray, or Superman’s underwear. Just nerds poking fun of their favourite characters. I don’t know what happened that people started taking it seriously as a plausible guide-line to writing Batman against someone like SUPERMAN. (And Superman should always have outer-underwear. He doesn’t follow trends. He’s SETS ‘em, bitches.)

  21. D.C. > Marvel

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