Sucker Punch Spoilers Discussion

Published 3 years ago by , Updated September 18th, 2012 at 8:08 am,

Sucker Punch Spoilers Sucker Punch Spoilers Discussion

While our readers are already discussing director Zack Snyder’s fantasy-action story of self-empowerment in the comments section of the Sucker Punch review, this is the place where you can discuss spoilers about the movie without worrying about ruining it for people who haven’t seen it yet.

To help steer discussion we’ve added an analysis of Sucker Punch to help clarify some of the details that left some moviegoers scratching their heads.

That said, Snyder does leave some elements of the film up for interpretation – making it impossible to answer everything with absolute certainty.

It goes without saying, this article is full of spoilers. So, if you still plan to see the film, and don’t want anything spoiled for you – look elsewhere.

Does our Sucker Punch explanation match your theory? Find out!

The Dream within a Dream

Following Babydoll’s arrival at the asylum, the film presents viewers with three realities:

  • The Asylum
  • The Burlesque Illusion
  • The Fantasy Realms

Despite the fact the majority of the movie is spent within the context of the burlesque reality, we know from the early images at the beginning, as well as the closing scene with the orderlies, that the dance setting was an illusion Babydoll (more on her later) developed to deal with the horrors of her actual environment.

It’s strongly hinted that the girls are being sexually abused by the orderlies and other employees at the asylum (most notably when the orderlies show reservations about allowing Blue to be alone with Babydoll after her lobotomy). The dark, and most logical, interpretation of the film suggests that Babydoll imagines herself “dancing” (and subsequently dispatching her oppressors in fantasy settings) whenever abuse is taking place, retreating into a world where she has increasing control over her oppressors – hypnotizing them with her dances (in the dancer illusion) and outright killing them (in the fantasy worlds).

After the first few “dances,” Babydoll begins to use this time with the abusers as a distraction, so that the other girls can go around and collect the necessary tools for the escape – essentially sacrificing her body for the sake of the mission – a theme which is revisited in the closing act of the film.

Sucker Punch Asylum Sucker Punch Spoilers Discussion

Are the other girls merely representations of different aspects of Babydoll’s psyche?

While it’s possible that, at one point, Snyder intended for Rocket (the little sister), Amber (the shy one), Blondie (the naive one), as well as Sweet Pea (the big sister), and even Babydoll herself (the fighter), to be avatar-like representations of various aspects of Babydoll’s personality – given what we see in the final film, there are a few problems with this theory.

First and foremost, Babydoll sees the girls in the real asylum world. It’s plausible that, as she began to fantasize, she merely superimposed the four girls’ visages onto the non-physical aspects of her own personality – i.e. visible avatar-like manifestations of abstract impulses. However, given the seriousness with which Snyder presents the real world in the closing moments of the film, it’s implied that the people in the fantasy world have a direct connection to people in the real world. Despite minor flourishes, Babydoll is directly interacting with the same people in the burlesque reality and the actual asylum: the burlesque cook is still the cook in the asylum, the burlesque Mayor is the custodian, the burlesque High Roller is the doctor – these people are not avatar-like representations of something abstract – they are rose-tinted filters placed on-top-of real people (who exist in a harsher reality). As a result, it stands to reason that the core girls are real people – real people that Babydoll is interacting with, not just in the fantasy world, but in reality as well.

Furthermore, it’s Sweet Pea who escapes the asylum in the real world, which would be an extremely unsatisfying ending, if there were no genuine connection between her character and Babydoll (who sacrifices her own freedom to make it happen). If the one psyche theory were correct, in a movie about guilt, oppression, and empowerment, it would have made much more sense for almost any of the other girls/personalties to have escaped, especially Rocket – the little sister that Babydoll was unable to save in real-life. Instead, it’s Sweet Pea who escapes – the same big sister who wasn’t able to protect her little sister.

It’s an interesting idea, with cool thematic implications but, given what we see in the final film, tangible evidence of the one psyche theory is either undermined by Sucker Punch‘s convoluted story-telling or other conflicting details.

Sucker Punch Fantasy World Sucker Punch Spoilers Discussion

What is the connection between the fantasy worlds and the reality of the asylum?

By the end of the film, Snyder makes it obvious that many of the events taking place in the dancer reality do have implications in the actual reality of the asylum. Dr. Vera Gorski mentions to the surgeon that prior to her lobotomy, Babydoll started a fire, stabbed an orderly, and successfully ensured Sweet Pea’s escape.

However, it remains unclear how involved the other girls were in the actual events in the asylum. Sweet Pea does successfully escape – which could indicate that Babydoll and the other girls were working together much in the same way as she imagined them in the burlesque club reality. That said, it’s unclear how much contact Babydoll actually had with the other girls, or how lucid any of them would have actually been (they all appeared pretty drugged up in the first scene at the asylum).

Similarly, assuming the girls were working as team, it’s still unclear whether or not Rocket, Blondie, and Amber died (as they did the burlesque reality), were lobotomized (like Babydoll), or were simply caught. Whether or not Snyder intended to leave this fact up for interpretation is unclear. Though, given the positive changes that seem to be promised for the asylum (as a result of Gorski’s revelation about Blue), it would make sense that whatever happened to the other girls – their fate wouldn’t be something that could easily be undone.

Continue reading the Sucker Punch spoiler analysis for our take on the Guardian Angel and who is in charge of the fantasies…

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  1. 2 questions.
    1) since in reality it was a mental ward. and going with the assumption sweet pea did indeed escape. was she insane? and now a mental patient is wandering the streets?
    2) in the burlesque world baby doll used her dance to distract the people, how was the distracting done in the reality world?

    • The dance in the real world was Baby Doll either having sex or being raped. She danced in her fantasy, and in her fantasy when she danced she escaped her mind and body to another imaginary world where she has control. The dancing was her distracting the various characters so the other girls could accomplish their “missions”

      • i thought that may have been it, but what still confuses me is, in order to get the map blue had to be distracted, and from what i gathered blue never had sex with baby doll. am i way off base here?

    • Well according to 1, she wasn’t really crazy. All of the girls that babydoll imagined were probably real and she teamed up with them only because they were like her. I.e: the story rocket said was probably true.
      As for 2, the most plausible thing was babydoll allowed herself to be ‘abused’ which is really horrible because it implies that she gave eh body as the distraction so the girls could steal their things.
      Abuse to the girls is heavily implied because of the guards reluctance to hurt the girls at the end of the movie. It’s quite sad actually.

      I understood the movie at one go so If you want to know more, reply!

    • No babydoll didn’t have it with blue. She really did stab him, as evidenced by his wound. In this way she rendered him unconscious, and managed to ‘distract’ him

      And to you’re above comment, babydoll was abused, she let herself get abused so the other girls could use the ‘distraction’.
      And sweet pea wasn’t crazy. I think the original explanation that rocket had ran away and sweet pea had followed her, (to the mental hospital) is true. The whole thing was babydoll’s fantasy but it was the story of sweet pea

  2. Really? You guys are on a movie site to complain about bad grammer, punctuation, and incorrect spelling? Lol, nerds! Do any of you have girl friends? Nevermind, I know that answer, double lol! Instead of being pompus, why don’t you just answer the question outright, instead of being a bunch of “professors” and demanding quality in people’s writing, and calling them liars. I’m sorry george, but your more patient than I am, I couldn’t swallow my pride to some jerk-off on some two bit movie comment site, just to get a movie explained to me. I couldn’t help it, I was reading the explanation, because alas I wasn’t getting it. Then I read the comments and BAM! Freakin’ allen over here, thinking he’s god’s gift the world’s cinematic discussion, giving you a hard time. Like seriously allen. WTF? The emails good, PLEASE by all means get ahold of me, I am just DIEING to figure out what makes you think your so special. And maybe the moderators didn’t catch it because you “very nicely” explain yourself, but I caught all the undertones, your wretched. I would love to find out why you think it’s ok to pick on people like that. :\

    • Haha, I agree in a way. But I always try to adept to other peoples habits of communicating or whatnot. Although at many points I stopped and thought to myself, that maybe it wasn’t me with the sloppy grammar, but Allen. I’m not perfect, no one is. Not even Allen, I’m sure I might be better at other things than her. But I would never bring someone down like that.

    • Listen, she NEVER gets raped. I do belive she gets abused. Now, listen. In the fanatsy realm when she “dances”, in reality it is actually when she is getting abused, or somebody else is getting raped OR abused.

      • @Allen Allen, I know these immature children don’t have good grammar. But, why shall we critise them? I mean, they’ll never learn. (Sorry for any mistakes, I have a broken keyboard.)

  3. Thanks so much, that explains it all! :)

  4. I also have some questions about what is reality in the movie and what is fantasy. I tried to read most of the posts in here but I didnt read all and someone might have asked a similar question earlier so forgive me for that. Also i want to apologize for my crappy english/grammar/punctuation since it is not my first language.

    My point is: At first i thought the beginning of the movie (Babydoll/sister/stepfather-scenes + Lennox house) are reality and the moment before the lobotomy (brothel/dances until high roller)is all fantasy.
    But why does the movie open with a red curtain and we see a stage where Babydoll sits on her bed and the narrator tells us her story and how she got into Lennox house? Because it wants us to be aware that it is a movie (which would be kind of stupid because we know we are only watching a film) or because Babydolls story is not really hers but Sweat Peas? She is the one who jells “STOP” right before Babydolls lobotomy and takes of her “Babydoll-wig & -costume” complaining about the story. Is it just her roleplay so she can deal with her past (because thats the therapy used in Lennox House) or is she actually playing Babydolls story? But this wouldnt be possible, she could not know it since in that scene where she jells “stop” she meets Babydoll the first time and does not know anything about her. I hope someone can follow me >-<

    Second question and probably very easy to answer for others but me: Is there any indication in the movie that the dances from babydolls fantasy represent nothing but her getting raped/violated in reality? Does it stand somewhere in the screenplay? Did Snyder mention that in an interview? Do we have to guess it from what Blue and the two guys talk about in the end (=last scene where he wants to rape her after the lobotomy)? Do we have to guess it from her sweaty face and sad expression before and after a dance? I dont know XD…

    • Only the obvious parts of the movie are fantasy. All other non-realistic things like the red curtain are just playfull ways of making a movie. Much like the raindrops turning into the words Sucker Punch. That never really happened.
      It is Babydoll’s story. But the one that got out narrates the story. Allthough there are elements that she couldn’t have known about. But that’s not necessary, it’s a movie. We get the information that Sweet Pea couldn’t provide to us because it’s a movie. Don’t see this as a story that is being told by someone.
      The dances are not Babydoll getting raped. Babydoll never gets raped.
      In the bordel endscene she says to Blue, right after stabbing him that he “will never have her, EVER!”. End he never does.
      In the fantasypart of the movie Blue clarifies that she is promised to the High Roller (in the real world, Blue and the security guard made a deal).
      But before the High Roller gets her, Babydoll and Sweet Pea start their escape.
      After Sweet Pea escapes, we see Blue and the other staffmembers making her ready to get abused.
      The dances (and the second level of fantasy) are when another girl is being raped. She’s sad because she feels sorry for the girls.

      • It seems I missed a few details because I watched this film without subtitles (and English is not my primary language).
        The High roller is ofcourse the doctor.
        Well anyway, it doesn’t change anything about the dance and Babydoll still isn’t being raped when she dances.

    • if you want to read a well-written analisys of sucker punch, then you should visit http://worddoodling.wordpress.com/2011/03/28/why-sucker-punch-is-smarter-than-you-think/ and http://www.avaadore.com/post/4224470105/a-feminist-defense-of-sucker-punch

    • For the second question, the action/battle scenes in the movie are just symbols for her strip teasing

  5. This movie has many people confused, and in fact that is the whole purpose of the movies plot.
    From the early start it tries to confuse you and it never really stops. After you leave the theater, you’ll still be searching for answers.
    What causes this, is the fantasyworld that Babydoll makes up for herself. The story could have easily been told without this fantasyworld. But Zack Snyder thought it was a
    good idea to have the lead character fantasize about what could have been instead of what really has occured. And he was right!

    This summary assumes that you have seen the movie (preferably the extended version, but not necessarily) and understand that the fantasies are a substitute for the real world occurences.
    On the internet, all sorts of theories about the fantasies can be found. How much of the fantasies represent real world occurences. When the fantasies are being made up.
    Also, what the fantasies represent (symbolism, metaphors etc.)
    This is my take on that.

    Having to cope with killing her little sister she convinces herself she has to escape from the asylum. During her escape, she realizes that escaping the asylum can not set
    her mind free and she realizes that the only option is to get lobotomized. Her mind will be set free and she can life a healthy life after that.
    During the moments before her lobotomy she fantasizes about the events that occured during her five days in the mental institution.
    So the fantasies are not happening in real time, they are made up after the real world events have already occured.
    In her fantasyworld we see Babydoll in the burlesque setting of Blue’s club. She gets a grand tour from Rocket. This most likely is a substitute for real world events.
    When Rocket takes Babydoll to the wardrobe closet, they pass a barred door, just like the ones in the asylum. However, in the context of the club this door is totally out of theme.
    This is a hint to the fact that many events are direct substitutes for real events.
    However, we also witness scenes from the story that Babydoll herself does not have any part in, or walk in on.
    Clearly, whenever she wasn’t in the room, she can not know what happened. There’s no real life equivalent to those events.

    It is explained that Babydoll, during her first five days in the mental institution, learns about Blue’s malpractices. That he forges dr. Grovsky’s signature to get girls lobotomized
    so they can be abused. In fact, the whole fantasy derives from that knowledge. In a way, the mental institution has become a whorehouse because of Blue’s actions.
    Many people seem to believe that Babydoll herself is being raped whenever she starts dancing in the fantasyworld. In fact, Wikipedia states that she is being assaulted at those times.
    However, in the fantasy’s endscene she tells Blue that he will never have her, EVER! plus, her virginity is promised to the high roller (the doctor) and he doesn’t take it (extended cut).
    The only time that her dancing is a substitute for her being raped is when she dances for the cook, but she is saved by Rocket in Real life.
    The other dances are just what they are in the fantasy, distractions. You have to use your imagination a little, but for instance, in the real world she gets Blue to witness a group session, led
    by dr. Grovsky. At the same time, Sweet Pea copies the map.

    Amber, Rocket and Blondie don’t die in Real life.
    When dr. Grovsky walks in after Babydoll’s lobotomy, she informs the doctor that in her first five days she has started a fire, helped another patient escape and stabbed an orderlie.
    Not a single word about the deaths of the three girls. Which, if they were linked to Babydoll’s presence, you would think dr. Grovsky would also mention those.
    So at the very least, the deaths of the girls have no connection to Babydoll.

    In the fantasy’s final scene, we see Sweet Pea escape and Babydoll stay at the asylum (the ultimate sacrifice). Notice that, even though we see the actual real life escape, they are still wearing their burlesque outfits. (when they pass the barred door, we are at the mental institution, rather than at the club).
    The movie takes several switches at this point and amongst other things shows us the actual moment of the lobotomy, dr. Grovsky walking into the room and Blue having Babydoll prepped up.
    It is this constant switching of scenes which has many people confused of the movies final scene in which Sweet Pea gets on the bus and she meets the wise guy from babydolls fantasy.
    As I explained earlier, Babydoll can not know about events that occured when she wasn’t there. So she has to make them up.
    This is exactly what she is doing when Sweet Pea gets in the bus. Sweet Pea never met the Wise guy (or the scared boy soldier). We see Babydoll’s fantasy substitute for this event!

    At the very last moments of the film, we see Blue being taken away by the cops, screaming that he isn’t doing anything.
    Anyway, whatever he wants, he doesn’t get the chance. Babydoll gets what she wants, and she doesn’t get abused. A happy end after all.

    So now you have all the key information to understand this movie. Things I left out can be explained with the knowledge you have just been given.

    Some other random stuff:

    Babydoll never learns the names of her friends. They probably all are very screwed up, so she never really makes contact. This is why she makes up those nicknames for them.
    The bunnyface on the robotic vehicle in the World War I scene is the face of the little sister’s toy from the opening scenes.
    This has nothing to do with plot theories but, have you taken a good look at the scene where Sweet Pea and Rocket discuss about joining Babydoll’s quest for freedom? If not, please take another
    look at it. Is that the most amazing mirror shot ever or what?!!

    • The info you provide plus the info the site provides was very informative, I reallllly liked you “random stuff” because the nicknames aren’t something I even though about until now, same with the face of the Robot and the toy from opening scenes. Thanks for sharing.

      • I also wanted to mention that I did manage to watch the extended/alternative ending online and I thought it explained everything much better, I wish that it had been used in the final cut of the movie.

  6. Is it significant when all the girls are laying in bed and Blondie says, “the last three girls that tried to escaped died”? Seeing as though her, Rocket, and Amber died, (3 girls) figuratively and/or literally, I just thought that might be an element of some kind. Foreshadowing or something.

    • to xyulie,
      I think you are right about the foreshadowing.

  7. My Theory on whether Baby Doll was raped during her ‘dances:
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    MAJOR SPOILERS
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    The problem with saying that Baby dolls dances were rape metaphors is that the dances are inconsistent. Firstly, we must understand that the dances have to conform to either reality (mirroring real events with real people) or symbolic (people as representative of something else). Without anything that tells us the rules have changed, the dancing is either mirroring real events or symbolic. If you believe that the dances represent rape then you also have to believe that the dances are symbolic at times and realistic at other times, and that makes no sense.

    The evidence shows that the dances are real. When she dances for the mayor (the orderly with the lighter), then she is actually taking the light from the orderly in the real world. The ending shows us that she did take the knife from the cook, the lighter from the orderly and did stab Blue. So, it can be reasoned that the dances were not symbolic but realistic in that when she was dancing for the cook, her team was taking the knife from the cook and no one else.

    Now, if we are taking the dances as realistic then the rape metaphor falls apart. For her first dance, Baby doll dances for all the other girls, the teacher, blue and some other people. Unless this was a gang bang or public masturbation then this makes no sense in the terms of the dance being a “rape” metaphor. Many times she also dances for many people or for her teacher.

    In order for me to say that it is not a rape metaphor, I have to explain what I think the dances are. Simply put, I think the dances are baby doll acting out.

    When they first got to Lennox house, blue was explaining that the therapist gave the girls a place to act out, to replay their traumatic scenes in order to help them. The first time Baby doll dances, it is at the instruction and insistence of the dance teacher (aka the therapist). Therefore the dance is raw but beautiful as shes learning to understand and deal with these emotions.

    Another problem with the rape metaphor is that, even back then having sex with a patient was a huge deal (as you can see at the end, the police are quite responsive). So why would all the men (Blue, the orderlie with the lighter, the cook) risk their jobs? Enough cognizant girls complaining of sexual assault and they would be locked up and I fail to see any logical reason all these men decided to take a chance with baby doll. It was not til after she was lobotomized that Blue attempted to take advantage of her as she would be unable to tell anyone then. Before that, it was just too dangerous for Blue.

    I am not saying that Baby Doll was not raped. I am just saying Baby Doll was not raped at the asylum.

    During the first visit to the dance hall, one of the girls remarked “Yeah right, like she’s a virgin.” Now, this could be a throw away dialogue choice. Or, it could mean that Baby Doll was sexually assaulted at home. The old man at the start was her step father. In order to punish Baby Doll he locked her in her room while he went to her sisters room. Now, two things. The first is that Baby Doll knows EXACTLY what will happen in that room. Now, sure she could watch a lot of tv but, more realistically, its because her step fathers been sexually assaulting her for a while. Think about my second point, what man comes up with sexual assault on the spot as a punishment like her step father did? Pretty much none. If he was willing to do that, chances are he’s done it many times before. The movie hints that he did it to baby doll though, perhaps she offered herself up to protect her little sister from the trauma. It would explain why the girls comment that she “moans and groans” during her dance and that its too sexual.

    That brings me to what I believe the dance is: Shes re-enacting the abuse at the insistence of the therapist. It would also explain why she goes to such lengths to protect her little sister and why shes so devastated that she failed: Shes been protecting her all her life. That would also explain why she chose to be lobotomized and help the other girl escape. She took Sweet pea in like a surrogate little sister, she wanted to protect her at any costs to make up for her previous failure. And, if she was lobotomized she wouldn’t have to deal with what happened.

    When she “dances” for others, she re-enacts her traumatic experiences which is somewhat sexual but definitely a diversion. The other girls in her group most likely also suffered sexual assault which would explain why they bonded so well (they would know what they suffered by how they acted during the sessions) and why one of them would comment that she’s not a virgin.

    • to Tracer,
      You write:“even back then having sex with a patient was a huge deal (as you can see at the end, the police are quite responsive). So why would all the men (Blue, the orderlie with the lighter, the cook) risk their jobs?“ Remmember, the police arrested Blue and the others because of Dr. Gorsky complaine. Do you really think the police would take story of a mental patient seriously?
      When Blue and the orderlies walk Babydoll after lobotomy, one of them says:“I’m not hurting these girls anymore.“
      In the brothel scene Rocket tells to Babydoll:“He (Blue)brings in his clients and we gotta make them feel, you know… special.“

    • Idc bout wat u guys think the story means cuz u all obviously dnt understand it i just want to know why the girls killed the knights when they were both killing orcs

  8. Here is what I think happened. All the explanations above are great, and very thought out, but after watching the movie a second time, and reading these explanations I have come up with a sort of idea. My idea is that, since it is Sweet Pea’s “story”, she has now made it home to her family. She is telling them everything that has happened and everything that led up to her escape. This would make the “guardian angel” at the end make much more sense. She is telling the story to family, and this man saved her from going back to the asylum. Also, what happened in the asylum was very gruesome, and heart wrenching, that she changed the story to that she was in an asylum, to where she is in a burlesque, dancing, and instead of the girls being sexually abused so that they may get the tools to escape, she is the one that changed the story to Babydoll distracting them. This is just what I think. If you read this and agree, let me know what you think! It was for fun and I love this movie. Thank you for reading!

    • To Micheal: Ok, dude, I know that all the girls there did get sexually abused. And, we all know it’s Sweet Pea’s story. And, I hope we all know that the “dances” are actually girls getting sexually abused.

    • I like that, so instead SweetPea is at the re-telling family that she was in a Burlesque show right, it’s like her way of dealing with the sexual abuse from the asylum is that what you mean? Or at the time she pretended it was more of a burlesque show to deal with it all and then later told everyone she was in the burlesque show to continue believing and dealing with what happened at the asylum?

  9. well as to the guardian angel.. if u listen to the narrator at the start he says that u never know where or when ur guardian angel will appear… now if u put this together with what the angel says to Babydoll and how the film pans out u will realise that the guardian angel can only be Sweetpeas and NOT babydolls, this also makes it possible for him to be the bus driver at the end , he basically uses Babydoll to get Sweetpea out. :)
    as to the rest ,, well its all babydoll remembering what happened in her own fantasy way just as she is lobotomised (like a dream that lasts hours but actually only takes a few seconds), u watch real life up to the point Sweetpea shouts ‘stop’ in the lobotomy scene and thats the start of babydolls dream/fantasy and u come out of it just as the lobotomy is finished, then ur back to real life in time to see the pin and hammer and then Blue getting arrested etc

    • to Rodent31,
      You write:“the guardian angel can only be Sweetpeas and NOT babydolls, this also makes it possible for him to be the bus driver at the end“. Your explanation is illogical. It is Babydoll who meets the wiseman in her own imagination. The other girls do not know anything about the battles in Babydoll’s imagination. The last scene is how Babydoll imagins Sweet Pea’s escape.

  10. Wow, first off, besides the confusion, I have to admit the movie was intriguing the whole way through. The explanation and the discussion here have helped me to realize a few things about the film, and I like it more now that I have assigned some meaning to things -be it my own preferred interpretation or the actual intent of the creators, I don’t know.

    I think a big part of the discussion here has revolved around either Sweet Pea and Babydoll being the same person, or their individual selves. I would submit a mixture of the two to be more accurate, which resolves a lot of the unknowns. What I mean is that Babydoll really only needed one accomplice the whole time –to get the map, to get the lighter, etc.- someone who could do those things while she “acted out”, and this is really just one other arbitrary patient who she assigned or shared all or some of the other personalities with. Sweet Pea would be the main personality she used to assign all the responsibility, guilt, and other negativity in order to escape from the pain that was her real struggle. If you think about this, it was Sweet Pea who was the level headed one, the responsible one, the one who was unsure of the plan, who was empowered to stop the plot of the post-lobotomy foul play, who tried to save her sister, but couldn’t, and ultimately dealt with the pain and grief of that failure and loss. All these things assigned to her accomplice made it so she could escape from those things in her mind knowing that the patient got away. If she escaped from the asylum herself, she would still be a prisoner of those things.

    Blue destroyed the parts of these personalities that are represented by the girls who died after learning from the accomplice that they were scheming. The accomplice gave in to doubts and pressure after their near foul-up with the cook, but rather than being mad at the accomplice, Blue gets imagined snuffing out the snitch as well as remorse and doubt. I don’t think the cook really stabbed anyone because 1, he wouldn’t still be working there –even if he was not found at fault, likely they would have sent him home for a few days- and 2, there would have been a full investigation, and all things would have been accounted for, including both knives. Rather, I think Babydoll felt a sacrifice was made when they didn’t execute this scheme flawlessly, plus it gave an out for the grieving about the little sister to be pushed off on the accomplice. A mixture of the accomplice actually being crazy, losing her wits about almost screwing up the “mission”, and the imagination of Babydoll, we have what plays out to be the reaction to loss of a little sister who she tried so hard to protect.

    I think Sweet Pea meeting the wise protector is the final scene of Babydoll’s fantasy, to feel at peace and that everything worked out well; the sacrifices were worth it. But against the arguments that she couldn’t fantasize anymore because she had been lobotomized, I say that the placement there was a storytelling choice rather than a chronological event. It’s called the “denoument” –a French for “a resolution”, which implies a look back at whether it was all worth it or not. It simply would not be as powerful if it happens right after the escape, and then is crushed by Babydoll’s lobotomy scene.

    Perhaps we could have a second, equally stunning piece made about the mind of the accomplice, and how she saw things being played out. This would make an excellent sequel to this movie, the two telling the whole real story that can be discerned from the corroborating elements of both points of views. Let’s hope they take this advice.

    • to Chris,
      You write :“I don’t think the cook really stabbed anyone…“. So what do you think happened to Rocket?

      • Rocket was not real. In my interpretation there is only one arbitrary accomplice who is the one who escapes. Rocket is a role Babydoll assigns in her mind to this character so SweetPea can take on the anguish of not being able to save her sister. But in all seriousness, why would the cook still be there in the scene after the lobotomy if he had stabbed someone? Why would the authorities not have ripped that place apart to find the missing knife and get it before an escape? The deaths are also not mentioned as part of the things Babydoll’s actions have lead to. Because they didn’t happen.

        • The Director has stated (and it’s quite obvious) that the fantasy begins in the theatre at the moment when the orbitoclast touches Babydoll’s face. You are in fantasy until the Doctor steps back from her after lobotomizing her. Everyone was real because we see all of the main characters leading up to that point. If you want a good guide for fantasy/reality, watch Blue’s moustache. Moustache = fantasy. No moustache = reality. Babydoll snaps into her fantay world and dreams all of her dreams in the instant before her demise. This movie is really a ripoff of An Occurrance at Owl Creek Bridge, a French short film from 1961 that won a BAFTA, an Oscar, and was touted as The Greatest Short Film Ever Made at the time, even though it was just a modified Wizard of Oz. Lots of the things in Babydoll’s fantasies are foreshadowed in the beginning scenes. Rocket’s flintlock pistol first appears on the evil stepfather’s office wall. Babydoll’s samurai sword is the letter opener in the drawer where the gun was kept. This is Dorothy in Kansas interacting with several people, getting bumped on the head, and going to Oz in her mind. Basically it’s Sucker Punch Over the Rainbow. There really aren’t any new stories, just new ways to tell the same thing again, and Sucker Punch does a magnificent job of giving a glimpse into the mind of a terrified young girl at the moment of her obliteration. She welcomed the lobotomy because she wanted to escape her horrible existence, sort of a suicide-by-doctor thing. Yeah, I know she didn’t die, she just became a vegetable, sort of a walking death, but Babydoll was gone either way.

          • I have written my interpretation much earlier, but the comment list is now so long, it’s probably hard to find. The problem with the “It’s all in B.D.’s head idea” is that Dr. Gorsky’s comments to the Lobotomist at the end describe events which we saw in parallel form in the sequence you say was all in B.D.’s imagination. She stabbed an orderly, started a fire, and helped a patient escape. As B.D. is being walked through the asylum, we see more evidence: the burned closet, the orderly without his lighter, the cook without his 2nd knife, and Blue with a stab wound in the shoulder.

            Answer the following questions to see what is going on: who is narrating? [Answer: Sweetpea. We don’t know this at the beginning but at the end, we realize she started the story by explaining about the role of guardian angels. If she is narrating, when, where, and why is she doing this? When: since there are elements in the dance fantasy sequences which are from the future for a story set in the 50′s, she is narrating the story many dacades later. Where: she would have no reason to say such positive things about guardian angels if one had not helped. So she must have escaped and is narrating the story to inspire others to listen to their guardian angels when they urge us to fight.

            This means that she is telling the whole story and we are left to woder why she chooses to tell of the events during the brief time B.D. was in her life as if it were happening in a night club rather than an insane asylum. The main reason I can think of is to emphasize in symbolic fashion the true nature of their situation: they were prisoners of men who took advantage of their helplessness (until B.D. arrives and shows them they have the power to fight back).

            Doesn’t that make more sense than to spend an entire movie to show a fantasy which makes guardian angels nothing but figments of someone’s desperate imagination? Why have the closing words encourage us all to take control of the worlds we create and fight? Hope this helps make sense of this wonderfully complex and thrilling movie that always leaves me feeling positive and empowered.

        • Watxh movie again extended version t beg when they go into the grand hall or w.e the orderly calls out ambers and cant rem if it was blondie or rockets names

  11. Taking a second look at some parts I realized that some possible proof that the imagination is all Sweet Pea’s is that when Babydoll is brought in, she looks pathetic, like a baby doll, and the doctor is talking to Sweet Pea, telling her to let the pain and guilt go, and that the fantasy world where she has control can be as real as real life. Sweet Pea is the one on the stage at that point, and she could be imagining herself as the newcomer, who still has a chance at feeling in control through several levels of fantasy, because she herself has lost all confidence. Then we are presented with a scene where she becomes herself again, only empowered. The next scene exactly mirrors the part where sweet pea is on the stage and Babydoll is brought in. She keeps herself separated from her at first, but eventually allows her to become her mode of escape. I don’t know, maybe there are more holes in this way, or a mixture of the ideas are more spot on. You decide, I guess.

    • I disagree. It is Baby-doll’s story. At the begining of the movie one can see details which are known only to Baby-doll, like steam from the pipe and broken bulbe , after she fires from the gun.

    • It can’t just be Sweet Peas’ imagination. Remember, the battle scences take place in Babydoll’s imagination.

      • I agree. I was merely noting how some people might take this interpretation. There are so many levels of imagination and fantasy, there are a wide range of possibilities, and this is one where the director has pointed out some clues. Think about what I mentioned, SweetPea being told to fantasize, and then it immediately goes into montage of Babydoll’s stay that lasts until the burlesque fantasy starts right before the lobotomy. If SP is imagining this as she watches BD go through her experiences there, she can then start imagining herself more empowered and in control. She can certainly imagine BD haveing a fantasy within her own. I don’t lean that way in my interpretation -see a few comments above this one to see my real interpretation (Chris)- but I am open to this exploration and understand why some people think this way.

    • to Chris,
      It can’t just be Sweet Peas’ imagination. Remember, the battle scences take place in Babydoll’s imagination.

    • Chris: You are on the right track, I think. But see my comment to Allen a post or two up. The things we see starting from Sweet Pea on the stage in the Lobotomy parallel to Baby Doll’s a moment before, to the end where Sweet Pea escapes and Baby Doll is lobotomized–all this really happened in the asylum as evidenced by Dr. Gorsky describing Baby Doll (the patient) helping a patient escape, etc. Sweet Pea was that patient who escaped. She is now telling us the story years later (which explains why she includes weapons and SF genre’s that are out of place in the 50′s).

      She tells the story in a symbolic way, setting it in a nightclub where the girls are sex slaves in Blue’s sadistic moneymaking operation. But that is part of what Dr. Gorsky taught her to do, to take control using her imagination. She’s showing us what happened both in the real world, and in the world of her and Baby Doll’s imaginations, which resulted in her ultimate escape. Baby Doll’s tragic sacrifice shows that she evolved from a person in need of a guardian angel’s inspiration to a guardian angel herself, a higher calling than escaping the asylum.

      If you analyze it all from a Buddhist point of view or a New Age varient of that, it is a morality tale that is about the situation we all find ourselves in, a world we think we did not create, at the mercy of forces we cannot defy. But what if this world is more like a story we have written and are starring in? Seen in that way, we can be encouraged to take control, to recognize we have resources we might not realize, we have help from unexpected characters, and we have weapons we need to fight.

      Most of the other analyses I’ve read in this site ultimately fall flat for me because they fail to support the ideas expressed so eloquently in the opening and closing narations.

      • Ok, guys seriously she couldn’t have gotten raped. Now, listen. In the fantasy realm she “dances”. But, in reality it is her going into her fantasy realm when somebody else is being abused or raped. I do belive Babydoll gets abused, but not raped.

  12. Here’s what I think..
    basically, I think that the film intro is the real world, Babydoll did kill her sister and was thrown in the asylum and all that, and at the asylum, she faced the most terrible horrors, including all kinds of submission and physical abuse by the asylum staff.
    This lead her to devise an escape plan with 4 of her fellow inmates, which has lead up to the deaths of three of them, and the successful escape of only one of them.
    When it was time for her lobotomy, it was the moment when she gathered back everything, kinda like your life flashing before your eyes when you face death, at the exact moment of the lobotomy, the entire “Burlesque illusion” took place, it was kinda her own manifestation of what happened, her more “pretty” reinterpretation of a much darker , less “music and dancing” version of the Burlesque fantasy, and as mentioned above, it appears that her plan, her true plan in the real world, involved giving up her own body for the orderlies and staff, so it would provide time to her friends to steal/do whatever needed for their escape, this part, being too dark to remember, was manifested as the most “fantastical” of her memories, going into fantasy realms where she had most power and could completely depend on herself and her friends to kick the asses of the most horrid villains.
    Her revised memories, nevertheless, could not change certain things, as the deaths of her three friends, the deaths have happened in a different way in reality, maybe there was no one to witness them, maybe she was the only witness, that’s why it was manifested that all three murders happened publicly and everyone knew about them.

    It all happened as depicted in the film’s time line, they skipped the entire 5 days between her arrival and the date of her lobotomy, and at the lobotomy, she was chained into a chair, and the doctor arrives to do it, once he does it, the fantasy starts, and when the fantasy is complete, we are back at the end of the lobotomy procedure, and the doctor says that he saw something in her eyes, that she wanted him to do it, the lobotomy procedure allowed her to reinterpret the entire dark events of the asylum (abuse and submission)into a more “rosy” version “erotic dancing and empowerment”

    As for the bus driver, well maybe he is an Angel, Baby doll’s angel, after giving her all she needs “mentally” to assist her escape plan, he showed up one last time to help Sweet pea to make sure that Baby doll’s efforts and sacrifice do not go in vain with Sweet pea’s arrest

    • To Majd Selbi.
      I disagree with your explanation of events. I don’t see how Babydoll could be abused with so many people standing around and watching her.
      By the way, I would not call it “burlesque illusion“ with “music and dancing“. The word “brothel“ is more appropriate. Brothel , that is how the girls see the asylum. They are coerced by Blue to have sex with the orderlies.

      In the asylum Babydoll does the roll playing and goes into her own imagination as Dr. Gorsky asks her. The roll playing attracts attention of the orderlies and Blue. This gives opportunity to Babydoll’s friends to steal the map and the lighter. In the brothel it is shown as dance, though one can never see Babydoll dance because the dance is not important. What is important is how she imagines her fight against evil.

      You write: “maybe there was no one to witness them, maybe she was the only witness, that’s why it was manifested that all three murders happened publicly and everyone knew about them.“ This sounds illogical. Otherwise nothing in the brothel can real. Actually, the brothel is just another way to show what was going on at the asylum.

      You write: “ the doctor arrives to do it, once he does it, the fantasy starts, and when the fantasy is complete, we are back at the end of the lobotomy procedure“. To invent the events of the five days in less then a second , a fantasy in itself.

      The last scene happens in Babydoll imagination after she was lobotomised. That is how Babydoll imagines Sweet Peas’ escape. The boy, who gets on the bus, just before Sweet Pea and the driver are known only to Babykoll.

    • To Majd Selbi
      The 4th paragraph should look like this:
      You write: “ the doctor arrives to do it, once he does it, the fantasy starts, and when the fantasy is complete, we are back at the end of the lobotomy procedure“. To invent the events of the five days in less then a second , is a fantasy in itself. I think it was a recall of how she saw the five previous days.
      If you want to read a well-written analisys of the movie the go to: http://www.avaadore.com/post/4224470105/a-feminist-defense-of-sucker-punch

      • Oh boy, another nerd that can’t handle a different point of view than his/her own
        Veter, while not every point of my analyses may be true, NON of your comments make any sense whatsoever, “I don’t see how Babydoll could be abused with so many people standing around and watching her”, the staff did clearly abuse the girls, and just because everyone in the “brothel” was standing and watching her dance, it doesn’t mean that in reality they were all standing and watching her get raped, and clap to her when its over!!!!!
        And what was that you said about the murders??? “illogical”, do you think it is illogical that the murders could have happened in a different manner in reality??? well then you probably think they happened exactly the same way?? while the girls were getting ready for the stage??? right.
        And that last thing you said “To invent the events of the five days in less then a second , is a fantasy in itself”…. oh I’m sorry, I thought it was a fantastical movie, oh wait, IT IS A FANTASTICAL MOVIE!!!

        Listen you don’t need to be angry with people just because they may have a different point of view, its just a work of art in the end and we all get to have our own interpretations, you don’t need to go around slashing everyone for their opinions about it.

        p.s. thanks for the link :)

        • Majd, don’t worry about the comments that come from people who base their opinions on nothing but their own “feelings.” Rape in asylums was commonplace and ordinary in the past, and even seen by some staff as a perk for putting up with a lousy job. It was ordinary for female imates to not bathe or to soil their genitals with their own feces to become repulsive and not be abused. The movie shows us Babydoll’s fantasies concocted by her to endure the horror or her situation. Since it’s a movie, we don’t witness those horrors because the movie would be totally repulsive if we did.

          And all of the fantasy does occur in the last moment before she’s lobotomized. It’s the same plot device used in “An Occurrance at Owl Creek Bridge,” a French short film from 1961 that won a BAFTA and an Oscar and was hailed as “the greatest short film ever made” in its time. Rod Serling bought the American rights and played it as a Twilight Zone episode, the only episode he did not make. Sucker Punch is told EXACTLY the same way, recall as fantasy in the instant before the demise of the main character.

          Interviews givey by Zack Snyder support your version of the film’s methods and intent. Unfortunately any drooler with a computer and an internet connection can post whatever “opinion” they conjure up in their uneducated mind. Even a basic knowledge of penology history makes anyone having an opinion that the Babydoll character was not being raped uninformed drivel. A good knowledge of film and film making reveals the source of the plot devices used in Sucker Punch. Believing this was somehow Sweetpea’s story is the same as believing 300 was Delios’s story. Sweetpea narrates the MOVIE telling Babydoll’s STORY because she survives, just as Delios narrates Leonidis’s story.

          Sucker Punch is a brilliantly made film and a hoot to watch. Most people miss so much of the foreshadowing Mr. Snyder hid in the film, like the flintlock Rocket uses as a weapon being on the wall of the stepfather’s office, or the Samurai sword Babydoll receives first appearing as a letter opener in the Stepfather’s drawer with the 45. It’s a smart film well executed. But it’s methods are tried and true movie-making constructs. Most of the people offering their opinions here are as valid as fry cooks offering their opinions of brain surgery. Whether they liked the movie or not is valid. What they think this movie was about, or what they think the Director was doing are not valid because they’re not based on anything substantive. Just their “feelings.”

          Stick to your guns Majd. You watched the movie and got the Director’s twist on the story. You’re not trying to put your own twist on the story. Sucker Punch is a movie. It is meant to entertain and provoke thought. But instead of discussing the dreams and fantasies in the movie, most of these comments are the commentors’ dreams and fantasies, what they wish the movie had been about. Most don’t have a clue about film making any more than they would have a clue about brain surgery. I wouldn’t listen if they gave me their opinion of a doctor’s work, but I guarantee they’d have one. Totally wrong and based on nothing, but they’d have an opinion. It’s like the people stating Sucker Punch is set in the 1950′s. Wrong. In the movie’s reality (pre-lobotomy-about-to-happen) there’s a 1967 Ford police car in plain view. So the movie is 1967 or later.

          I just wish Mr. Snyder had used a Chrysler 300 instead of the Imperial to drive Babydoll to her doom. That would have been slick.

          • wow, thanks for the info, i dont mind people expressing their own views on art, i do mind trying to forcing it :)

            • Majd, have you seen both the original and Director’s cuts,and if you have, which did you enjoy most. I liked both, but the Director’s cut entertained me more because I thought the dancing scenes were great.

              • havent seen the directors cut, only saw the alternate ending (with the high roller scene) on youtube, i didnt care much for it, actually i liked the original cut better

  13. This movie is quite easy to understand. Blue’s Brothel was to Babydoll what Oz was to Dorothy. A bump on the head sent Dorothy out of her mind. The orbitoclast touching Babydoll’s eye sent her out of her mind. Both took people and things from their real lives and conjured up fantasies (2 levels of fantasy for Babydoll) while they dealt with the injuries they had suffered; Dorothy’s physical injuries and Babydoll’s emotional injuries. Wicked Witch/Blue. Good witch/guardian angel. Flying monkeys/steampunk Nazis. Tin man/bunny-faced mech. Ruby slippers/a map, a key, fire, a knife, and an unknown. In 1939 movies had to have happy endings. 2011, movies can pretty much end any way at all because it’s all about the story. Like the movie, don’t like the movie. But stop trying to make it something it was not – Alice through the looking glass and down the rabbit hole. And even if the story line fails for you or the characters didn’t engage you, the visuals alone were worthy watching. The freaky stuff Mr. Snyder painted on his canvas was better art to me than anything Dali or Picasso ever did.

    • To Alen,
      You spent so many words venting your frustration, and so little explaining what the movie was all about. What is it with all that frustration ?
      I think you should consult Dr. Gorsky. Her therapy might help you. But if it doesn’t, I wouldn’t rule out lobotomy for you. By the way, if Blue gets crush on you, well …. you know what to do, just start dancing. When he sees you doing that, he’ll run away like hell. Because that’s the last thing anybody wants to see you doing.
      So, next time you write your comments start with explanation, and keep your frustrations to yourself.
      That’s my “sucker punch“ for you. Why don’t you analyse it and write your thoughts to me. I’ll be glad to read them.
      Yours truly, veter.

      • Veter, it’s obvious English is a second language for you because your personal comments to me made no sense at all. My comment compared Sucker Punch to The Wizard of Oz. What in the name of God did you find there that rattled around where your brain should be that came out as frustration on my part? And your rambling about me dancing, what was that all about? Are you in middle school or something? I saw some of your earlier comments and ignored all of them because you don’t have a clue about this movie. Have you seen An Occurrance at Owl Creek Bridge, the movie I mentioned to Majd in an earlier comment? Don’t you understand how all of the fantasies happened in an instant in Sucker Punch EXACTLY the same way they did in Occurrance? Really, your comeback to me was about Blue getting a crush on me and nobody would want to see me dance? That’s the best you can do? I’m obviously in a battle of wits with an unarmed man. Why don’t you yell from your Mom’s basement that you want her to make you some more Pizza Rolls and just watch a few more movies you don’t understand? By the way, if you’re going to address someone in this country, try and spell their name right.

        • Just wanted to point out that Occurrance isn’t a word, but I believe Occurrence is…

  14. extraordinary film, extraordinary movie. Goodness what can I say, beautiful, poetic from conception to screen conveyance. Truly a unique media experience since the matrix. I would compare it to zombie strippers, but your film far out-strips the magnitude of the servitude in which we all live. We overcome it in the recognition of the power of our own minds and spirit, the 5th mystical object. We are the energy of our universe…

    Thank you to all who are having to survey the bs from internet lice. I hope that this is a diamond in the rough… keep up the good work!

  15. I may be wrong but after watching this movie i thought that babydoll was sweat peas guardian angel.

  16. Here’s my POV –

    Sucker Punch makes total sense when you realize that it is all Sweet Pea’s dreams, not Baby Doll’s, that’s why the Wiseman appears in all of them. Baby Doll never met the Wiseman, only Sweet Pea at the end. If you look at all of the fantasies, the Wiseman is trying to save them all (the 5 girls), instead of just her….which is what happened in “reality”.
    Also, Baby Doll never met the young boy at the Bus Stop, only Sweet Pea did, that’s why he’s also in one of the daydreams/fantasies, the WWI one.

    We “slip” into Sweet Pea’s fantasy right after her and Baby Doll make eye-contact in the Theatre. Remember that it is Sweet Pea who was about to lobotomized in a play on stage and she stops the play and asks something like “does this really have to happen?” After that, we see her fantasies about what she would have like to have happened in hindsight.

    I believe all the fantasies of Sweet Pea happened on the bus ride to freedom as she looked back at what happened the prior 5 days. She was in awe of Baby Doll’s sacrifice and made her out to be a super-heroine in her daydreams in back of the bus.

    Baby Doll must have told her about her own story in those 5 days. Sweet Pea knows about the accidental shooting of her little sister. However, Baby Doll, out of shame, tells her somebody important (the “High Roller”) is coming to rescue her, not a Lobotomist, but she wants to escape with them instead.

    The “ass kicking” part of the fantasies were Sweet Pea’s super-heroic ideal and admiration of Baby Doll’s courage and the courage she wished she had (remember, she was reluctant at first and then wanted to quit later). Originally in “reality”, it was Baby Doll’s plan to steal 4 items….and then Sweet Pea, in hindsight, made all the deeds super-heroic in nature because it all led to her freedom.

    In fact, Rocket (Sweet Pea’s little sister) may have been another fantasy because Doll accidentally killed her little sister and, because of this, Sweet Pea fantasize about a world in which a little sister (Rocket) lives to be a hero.

    The fantasies that took place while Baby Doll was dancing was really Sweet Pea’s interpretation of what happening inside Baby Doll’s mind while was dancing and being a distraction in order to steal those 4 items. Sweet Pea made Baby Doll’s role more heroic than being a mere distraction or decoy, which was the role she was indeed playing.

    Every day we do this to someone we loved and admired, but passed away — we don’t want their life and death to be meaningless. Sometimes we exaggerate in our awe of our friend or family member that passed away. Sometimes we imagine them to be bigger than they really were and they didn’t die in vain.

    This is what Sweet Pea did with her memories of Baby Doll. In her fantasies, she made her personal savior to be a true super-heroine and not a mere victim. Re-watch the movie from this perspective and it will all makes sense. Baby Doll asks in the beginning and near the end of the movie a simple question — “Where is my mind?” The answer — it lives on with Sweet Pea.

    • That just seems like a very logical explaination :) Well noticed!

    • If “Sucker Punch“ is Sweet Pea’s story, then how would she know what happened after her escape ? How would Sweet Pea know that Baby Doll was lobotomised ? How would Sweet Pea know what Blue told to Baby Doll when they were alone ? How would Sweet Pea know that Blue and the other orderlies were arrested ? If lobotomisation of Baby Doll is Sweet Pea’s invention, then why would she do it to Baby Doll ? At least she could invent that Baby Doll escapes as well short time later.

      • The movie is not Sweetpea’s story. Watch the Twilight Zone episode, An Occurrance at Owl Creek Bridge and you will see the same plot device as used in Sucker Punch. This movie is Babydoll’s story, proven by the fact that Zack Snyder has said the fantasy begins in the asylum. Sweetpea narrates the story of Babydoll just like Delios narrated the story of Leonidis. Most of the comments posted here are wrong, primarily because they contracidt what the man who made the movie has said about the movie.

        • to Allen,
          In 300 there is a clear timeline. In Sucker Punch it is different. In Sucker Punch there is the hospital, the club and the fantasy world. At the beginning and the end of the movie you hear Sweet Pea’s voice, but you don’t see her. At the end, you see and hear Sweet Pea in Babydoll’s imagination. It gives me impression that is how Babydoll imagines Sweet Pea would tell the whole story one day. Imagine that you visit the mental hospital, and you see a blonde lobotomised girl. Then you ask yourself “what’s her story ?“ And then you have access to her thoughts and can see that she has helped to escape another patient. And she imagines how the patient would tell about her.

          • Isn’t it simpler to assume that if Sweet Pea is narrating at the beginning and end and we see her escaping in the end, that she is telling the story of how Baby Doll sacrificed herself to help Sweet Pea escape? We know she escaped because the Doctor says Baby Doll helped one of the inmates escape and we see the evidence of it in the burned room, and so on. That would also explain the anachronisms in the fight fantasies. Baby Doll would not imagine Anime style mechas, science fiction weapons and robots, and so on. That would come from Sweet Pea’s imagination as she puts us into the spirit of the fight/dance that is going on when Baby Doll is helping the others get the things they need to escape. She is now a wise old woman telling us the story to inspire us to do as Baby Doll did. THis is the simplest explanation so by Occam’s razor, it’s likely the best.

            • Lanny, you are dead on. But for some reason all these droolers want to “imagine” the movie had stuff in it that only some ridiculously convoluted stretch of the imagination could arrive at. Sadly, all they have to do is listen to a couple of the Director’s interviews and they’d have an idea about this movie totally contrary to their “imaginings.” Shame people can’t discuss the movie created by an artist, but want to pretend they have better ideas and want to inject what they “feel” like instead of what they saw on the screen.

              • “Droolers”? Really?

                I guess movie critics are “droolers” as well since 77% of them gave the film a bad review and the average score given was 2 out 5 stars.

                http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/sucker-punch-2010/

                Vic

                • No, goofy, because movie critics gave their opinions about the movie. They did not discuss their imaginations or own fantasies about delusions not presented on the screen. They watched the movie, and many didn’t like it. Fine. That’s opinion. But to ignore the movie, dream up some nonsense, and then thumb some imagined drivel about it is lame, nonsensical, egocentric and sad. If you want to talk about a movie, talk about the actual movie. Critics do, and that’s great. Critics beat up The Maltese Falcon and hundreds of other great movies. So what? I saw Sucker Punch, understood the plot and the delivery, appreciated the visuals, and found it worthwhile and entertaining. Some people didn’t. I don’t like hockey, some people do. But I’m not going to watch a hockey game, imagine it’s badmitton, and then talk about badmitton. That’s what half of these goons here do because they think whatever they “feel” matters. They “feel” the movie did this or that. Nope, it wasn’t on the screen, wasn’t what the Director said he did, so they are just silly. It’s like saying opera would be good if it was just like rock and roll. I’m not referring to movie critics as droolers, I’m referring to the dimwits here who are uneffected by reality. The movie was what it was. They can’t “imagine” elements into it, especially if they contradict the man who made the movie. Opinions are great. Altering reality is not.

                  • Allen,

                    “goofy”? “drooler”? “goons”? Apparently your statement “Opinions are great” only applies to those who agree with you.

                    You enjoyed the movie, fine. Others didn’t. Keep up the holier-than-thou name-calling and you’ll find yourself banned.

                    Vic

                    Vic

            • to Lanny Buettner,
              In Sucker Punch it is Baby doll who tells the story. Baby doll imagines how Sweet Pea would tell the story one day. Here is why I think so:

              In the imagination scenes there are many things from Baby doll’s life before the hospital. For example, Baby doll’s sword resembles the knife her stepfather is using to open the last testament, and so is her pistol resembles her stepfather’s pistol. Rocket uses the old pistol similar to ones in the stepfather’s office. The statue of angel that is seen on Baby doll’s mother funeral is also present when the girls attack the German trenches. In Baby doll’s bedroom there is a miniature castle, in the third mission happens in the castle. Yet, we don’t see in the movie that Baby doll tells to the girls about her life before the hospital.

              Then there are 6 things that are very personal to Baby doll and which we see in the imagination scenes : the firing gun, the light is going off, shattering the bulb’s glass, the steam, clock, and Baby doll’s sister blood. The firing gun : Baby doll uses her gun in every imagination scenes, except the last. The light is going off : light goes off when the samurais are killed. Shattering the bulb’s glass : the mechanised gunmen shatter like glass when are hit by bullets. The steam : steam escapes from German soldiers’ wounds. Clocks : clocks power the German soldiers and control the timer of the bomb in the train. Baby doll’s sister blood : the samurais have red eyes, so do some of the German soldiers. In the castle, the lava is red. The train has long red lights. Again, we don’t see in the movie that Baby doll tells to the girls about all the things. She is the only one who knows about the thing and can put them in the imagination scenes.

              Next, Baby doll, Sweet Pea, Rocket, Amber, Blondie and Blue are not their real names. Remember what Blue tells to Baby doll’s stepfather :“She won’t even remember her name when I’m done with her.“ Were the story told by Sweet Pea, she would use real names. But the story is told by Baby doll after lobotomization and she doesn’t remember her own name, nor the other girls’ names.

              Then, after Sweet Pea leaves how would she know what happens to Baby doll ?

              After Sweet Pea leaves, we don’t know what happens to her. However, we know what happens to Baby doll. If it was Sweet Pea who tells the story, the end of movie would be different.

              Then the scene, where Baby doll is sitting on the chair in the toilet and closes her eyes, shows that it is Baby doll’s imagination. Sweet Pea walks out of the bus station toilet and takes a bus just like Baby doll tells her :“You stay off the roads and you find a bus station.“ Baby doll doesn’t know if Sweet Pea takes a bus. She just imagines Sweet Pea doing so. The fact that Baby doll is in the toilet and Sweet Pea walks out of the toilet gives me impression that Baby doll escapes too. After all, Blue and the orderlies are arrested.

              At the beginning of the movie we see the curtain open, but at the end it doesn’t closes. It shows that she lives in her imagination.

          • Your “imagine you visit the mental hospital and see a blonde lobotomized girl” scenario is goofy. while that might be some movie you would make, it is not the movie Zack Snyder made. When you’ve watched the Twilight Zone episode I mentioned, call back. “An Occurrance at Owl Creek Bridge” (later a Twilight Zone episode) won a BAFTA and an Oscar in 1961, and was touted as the best short film ever made. Sucker Punch uses the EXACT same plot device wherein the main character dreams at the moment of their demise, and a split second passes as hours or days to them in their mind. We, the movie watcher, watch from an omnipotent viewpoint. I don’t need to “imagine” another movie. I’m discussing Sucker Punch. Zack Snyder said the fantasy starts in the asylum. So, before the asylum was movie reality. That makes it Babydoll’s story. The man who made the movie said so. Your opinion is moot. It’s his movie, it’s what he says it is. Start from that premise and discuss his work, not your own “imagination.”

  17. Sweet Pea’s narration at the beginning of the movie, explaining that our angels come to us sometimes in forms we may not recognize, explains Babydoll’s presence in the asylum and her part in Sweet Pea’s escape. The Guardian Angel guy is an angel too I guess, but the real one is Babydoll herself. I thought the fact that Sweet Pea was narrating about angels while it’s focusing solely on Babydoll made it pretty obvious. Plus the final breakout scene rolls around and reinforces that whole idea.

    Also, I don’t think Babydoll’s stepfather was going to sexually molest Babydoll or her little sister. The opening scene clearly shows him reading the will of his recently deceased wife, and the will leaves everything to the girls. He freaks out and was planning to kill them or otherwise incapacitate them in a way where he could get the estate, I thought. Babydoll wasn’t responding as though she were running from a dude about to rape her. She was fighting for her LIFE.

  18. ok this was very very helpful guys……cept the end.if saying sweetpea AND babydoll are fantasizing.and babydoll gets lobotomized does’nt that leave sweetpea fantasizing still…cuz mabe she see’s the reality as one of the dreams because she is after all insane too (right?).the bus driver see’s her anguish and suffering gives her a pass(help) and in turn in sweetpea’s reality which is her dream see’s the wise gaurdian angel as the bus driver.

    all in general the freakin movie was horribly and terrificlly amzing,i loved every aspect of it,incredible action(fantasy) scenes.inception was baby food compared to this.

    AWSOME!!!!!

  19. Couple Questions: During the final scene on the bus, in the real world, why did Sweet Pea see the old man and kid from the fantasy world? And is there some kind of irony about the word “paradise” which used frequently throughout the film? It was mentioned in the very beginning that once Baby Doll was lobotomized she would be in her own paradise. Then the girls all talked of reaching paradise, and when the bus drove off at the end, the sign read “Paradise.” Any connection or symbolism here??

    • Because it is fantasy world. That is how Baby doll imagines Sweet Pea’s escape.

  20. Really thought this was gonna be a film about beautiful girls puching stuff, this is how it was advertised. I was pleasantly suprised when I discovered how deep the film actually is, a little like shutter island; good action sceanes, an amazing concept and it really shatters the viewers perspective on the boundaries of reality. Love the advice, really helped me enjoy t he film and understand the ending.

  21. I’ve just watched Sucker Punch for the second time (I love the film). It’s far deeper than I first realised. I love the suggestion that it is all from Sweetpea’s point of view and can totally agree with that after the second viewing.

    The first 5 minutes of the film are narrated by Sweetpea herself it seems. She talks about a gaurdian angel taking many forms e.g. An old man or a little girl. Surely that can’t be a coincidence as the old man features heavily as a sort of gaurdian.

    Secondly right when she says little girl, it cuts to Babydoll sitting on her bed. This leads me to believe that the story is actually of Sweetpea’s escape and that Babydoll is Sweepea’s gaurdian angel. Especially she sacrrifices herself for her in the end in the same way as she would’ve for her sister.

    Anyone agree with that?
    Great film

  22. I loved the explanation it was great

  23. I loved the explanation it was great .

  24. If you look at the part when blue shoots Blondie in the dream a picture of a lone girl in a white dress falls onto the floor, then later in the film when free sweet-pea was wearing a similar white dress, due to the girl in the picture being alone, this has lead me to believe that Rocket wasn’t actually real and simply part of Sweet peas mind, if you listen to their conversations Rocket says “Sweet pea got along with our parents and only followed me” or something along those lines,also Rocket is the opposite of Sweet Pea,she’s daring and not afraid of danger unlike Sweet pea,also it was only when Rocket ‘dies’ does Sweet Pea have a chance to be free,she also dies in the /last/ extended reality. Just a thought :)

  25. This is just a crazy theory but.. I think it would be interesting to look at sweet pea as someone who has multiple personality disorder. This disorder is not common, yet occurs often as a way for a person to cope with there situation and seperate themselves from what is happening or did happen. aka trauma.. aka step father abusing her and her sister. It is very common with people who have this disorder to have sexual abuse past trauma because instead of them having to feel like they are being abused they can use their alter ego’s to cope better with what is happening. I see this as sweet peas story and the beginning with the step father sweet pea used her alter ego(baby doll) when the abuse was taking place to feel and become stronger. When baby doll took over in her mind sweet pea was able to fight back, but killed her sister on accident. Her other ego’s? The other girls she spoke with in the asylum and baby doll was her main alter ego which happeneds with this disorder. There is a dominant personality disorder. The killings of the girls close to her in the asylum could have been her letting go of her alter ego’s. Baby doll was last and said, “This was never my fight.” So maybe all the personalities came together at the end. I know crazy thought.. but you never know.

    • And let me make this correction. The term is now called Dissociative Disorder instead of Multiple Personality Disorder. So in conclusion Baby doll and Sweet Pea are the same person. Baby doll is an alter ego of Sweet Pea.

      • to Kate,
        The movie is not about mentally ill. It is about girls who were put unjustly in the hospital and how they try to escape from there.

        The following is explanation of the scene where Sweet Pea wears the blonde wig and looks like Baby doll.
        When Baby doll enters the theatre for the first time, Dr. Gorsky is doing the therapy with Sweet Pea. In the club scene we see again when Baby doll is brought by her stepfather and Sweet Pea is practicing a show with madam Gorsky. The blonde wig that Sweet Pea wears means that Dr. Gorsky offers Sweet Pea to play a role of leader to unite the girls and to resist Blue. That role of a leader Baby doll plays later. Or I should say Dr. Gorsky offers Sweet Pea a role of Baby doll.
        Remember Madam Gorsky says to Blue before he shoots Amber and Blondie: “I teach them to survive you.“
        Rocket says to Baby doll: “No one takes a risk for anyone in here.“
        Dr. Gorsky wants to change things in the hospital, but Sweet Pea refuses it.
        Sweet Pea says: “I get the sexy little school girl. I even get the helpless mental patient, right? That can be hot. But what is this? Lobotomise vegetable? How about something a little more commercial, for God’s sake?“ What it means is: Sweet Pea says she can unite the girls so they can stand for each other, but she doesn’t want to risk to be lobotomised. Remember, when Baby doll offers the girls plan to escape, it is Sweet Pea who tries to convince the girls not to do it. Later, when the girls steal the lighter and Blue threatens them, Sweet Pea asks the girls to quit the plan to escape.

  26. Hey everyone!
    I saw the movie just a few minutes ago.
    And have to tell somebody how I think it is:

    Baby Doll and Sweet Pea are the same person. You can see it in the first scene in the bordello world. Baby Doll cloeses her eyes and she opens it as Sweet Pea in the bordello world. She looks much like Baby Doll with the schoolgirl outfit and the wig. So Baby Doll created her. I watched the movie in a bad quality so I can not say if Sweet Pea was around in the asylum. I also think the other girls are not important they are just supporting charakters. Except Rocket. She is Sweet Peas little sister (she stands for Baby Dolls sister in the real world, and yes I think she died, because Rocket dies too. Could it be that Baby Doll completly creates her? Because she also take up a wig when she is first seen(and I haven’t seen her in the asylum scene with all of the girls, okay I haven’t recognized any of them).

    So there is that scene when Rocket talks to Baby Doll about her family and she tells her she ran away and after some time her sister followed her. Rocket says she don’t know way Sweet Pea did it because she had never had any problems with their parents. Bad things happend to Baby Doll and to Rocket but nothing happend to Sweet Pea! She is untouched, innocent. Baby Doll created the Bordello world in which unharmed Sweet Pea can live. Bordello world is kind of linked to the real world. The fantasy world durring the abuse.

    At the end when Baby Doll has to decide for what/who is it all about she has actually to decide which person she wants to be. She takes Sweet Pea beause thats the created unharmed personality (She helped someone to escape, but who is not important. Baby Doll dreams she is in the bordelo world but she acts in the real world).

    After the Lobotomie, she is in the same mental ondition like during the abuse. She’s Sweet Pea now and can live a lucky life. No bad Baby Doll memories are left.

    sorry, that it is so much. But that’s what I think!

    I’m sorry if I made some bad writting mistakes. English is not my mainlanguage.

  27. the girl was in a mental asylum… every girl was just peices of herself… she was mentally ill so she saw “a burlesque world” not “the asylum” and in that world she was interacting with herself (multi-personalities)… she was getting abused by guards in asylum which in turn she transformed into dancing in her mind… the “fantasty realm” was a visual process of the lobotomys. the more loboltomys that were undertaken the more closer she was to “ESCAPE” and at the end she was left with only “ONE PERSONALITY” braindead.

  28. Allen,

    Just wanted to say although I found you comments entertaining, you really need to get your head out of your arse! You are so pompous and just unnecessary in your dissection of peoples comments. What happened to you to make you so mean?

    Oh and please mention An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge once more. Which won an Oscar. In case anyone had forgotten.

    Don’t worry about your clever retort, I’ll be doing something much more interesting than fretting about what you have to say.

    Good film though!

  29. Contrary to popular belief a lobotomy doesn’t necessarily render the patient catatonic. While that is a very possible side effect. There have been numerous reported cases of patients that benefited from the procedure. Many mental disorders improved and cognitive functions remained intact. We are not given an explanation as to the results of her procedure. She doesn’t speak after the procedure but, I don’t believe she spoke in the “reality” scenes leading up to it either. She was helped out of the room but, that could just be procedure and she would also be in shock from the trauma to her prefrontal cortex. We are shown the links between the fantasy world and reality from what appeared to be her point of view which could indicate she was aware. My point is saying she is unable to fantasize the ending with sweet pea at the bus station because she was lobotomized might not be true. As with the majority of the movie we are left with our own take and imagination.