Sucker Punch Spoilers Discussion

Published 3 years ago by , Updated September 18th, 2012 at 8:08 am,

Sucker Punch Spoilers Sucker Punch Spoilers Discussion

While our readers are already discussing director Zack Snyder’s fantasy-action story of self-empowerment in the comments section of the Sucker Punch review, this is the place where you can discuss spoilers about the movie without worrying about ruining it for people who haven’t seen it yet.

To help steer discussion we’ve added an analysis of Sucker Punch to help clarify some of the details that left some moviegoers scratching their heads.

That said, Snyder does leave some elements of the film up for interpretation – making it impossible to answer everything with absolute certainty.

It goes without saying, this article is full of spoilers. So, if you still plan to see the film, and don’t want anything spoiled for you – look elsewhere.

Does our Sucker Punch explanation match your theory? Find out!

The Dream within a Dream

Following Babydoll’s arrival at the asylum, the film presents viewers with three realities:

  • The Asylum
  • The Burlesque Illusion
  • The Fantasy Realms

Despite the fact the majority of the movie is spent within the context of the burlesque reality, we know from the early images at the beginning, as well as the closing scene with the orderlies, that the dance setting was an illusion Babydoll (more on her later) developed to deal with the horrors of her actual environment.

It’s strongly hinted that the girls are being sexually abused by the orderlies and other employees at the asylum (most notably when the orderlies show reservations about allowing Blue to be alone with Babydoll after her lobotomy). The dark, and most logical, interpretation of the film suggests that Babydoll imagines herself “dancing” (and subsequently dispatching her oppressors in fantasy settings) whenever abuse is taking place, retreating into a world where she has increasing control over her oppressors – hypnotizing them with her dances (in the dancer illusion) and outright killing them (in the fantasy worlds).

After the first few “dances,” Babydoll begins to use this time with the abusers as a distraction, so that the other girls can go around and collect the necessary tools for the escape – essentially sacrificing her body for the sake of the mission – a theme which is revisited in the closing act of the film.

Sucker Punch Asylum Sucker Punch Spoilers Discussion

Are the other girls merely representations of different aspects of Babydoll’s psyche?

While it’s possible that, at one point, Snyder intended for Rocket (the little sister), Amber (the shy one), Blondie (the naive one), as well as Sweet Pea (the big sister), and even Babydoll herself (the fighter), to be avatar-like representations of various aspects of Babydoll’s personality – given what we see in the final film, there are a few problems with this theory.

First and foremost, Babydoll sees the girls in the real asylum world. It’s plausible that, as she began to fantasize, she merely superimposed the four girls’ visages onto the non-physical aspects of her own personality – i.e. visible avatar-like manifestations of abstract impulses. However, given the seriousness with which Snyder presents the real world in the closing moments of the film, it’s implied that the people in the fantasy world have a direct connection to people in the real world. Despite minor flourishes, Babydoll is directly interacting with the same people in the burlesque reality and the actual asylum: the burlesque cook is still the cook in the asylum, the burlesque Mayor is the custodian, the burlesque High Roller is the doctor – these people are not avatar-like representations of something abstract – they are rose-tinted filters placed on-top-of real people (who exist in a harsher reality). As a result, it stands to reason that the core girls are real people – real people that Babydoll is interacting with, not just in the fantasy world, but in reality as well.

Furthermore, it’s Sweet Pea who escapes the asylum in the real world, which would be an extremely unsatisfying ending, if there were no genuine connection between her character and Babydoll (who sacrifices her own freedom to make it happen). If the one psyche theory were correct, in a movie about guilt, oppression, and empowerment, it would have made much more sense for almost any of the other girls/personalties to have escaped, especially Rocket – the little sister that Babydoll was unable to save in real-life. Instead, it’s Sweet Pea who escapes – the same big sister who wasn’t able to protect her little sister.

It’s an interesting idea, with cool thematic implications but, given what we see in the final film, tangible evidence of the one psyche theory is either undermined by Sucker Punch‘s convoluted story-telling or other conflicting details.

Sucker Punch Fantasy World Sucker Punch Spoilers Discussion

What is the connection between the fantasy worlds and the reality of the asylum?

By the end of the film, Snyder makes it obvious that many of the events taking place in the dancer reality do have implications in the actual reality of the asylum. Dr. Vera Gorski mentions to the surgeon that prior to her lobotomy, Babydoll started a fire, stabbed an orderly, and successfully ensured Sweet Pea’s escape.

However, it remains unclear how involved the other girls were in the actual events in the asylum. Sweet Pea does successfully escape – which could indicate that Babydoll and the other girls were working together much in the same way as she imagined them in the burlesque club reality. That said, it’s unclear how much contact Babydoll actually had with the other girls, or how lucid any of them would have actually been (they all appeared pretty drugged up in the first scene at the asylum).

Similarly, assuming the girls were working as team, it’s still unclear whether or not Rocket, Blondie, and Amber died (as they did the burlesque reality), were lobotomized (like Babydoll), or were simply caught. Whether or not Snyder intended to leave this fact up for interpretation is unclear. Though, given the positive changes that seem to be promised for the asylum (as a result of Gorski’s revelation about Blue), it would make sense that whatever happened to the other girls – their fate wouldn’t be something that could easily be undone.

Continue reading the Sucker Punch spoiler analysis for our take on the Guardian Angel and who is in charge of the fantasies…

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  1. BTW, i believe that the “guardian angel” was a real person. He kept reappearing on the fantasy world, and the only other characters to reappear where the other girls all of whom had counterparts on the real world.

    Sorry for any mistake on my writing, English is a second language to me.

  2. Babydoll’s fantasies are characterized by her closing her eyes and then being transported to her version of reality. After her lobotomy, Babydoll closes her eyes one last time and since she is in “paradise” fantasizes about Sweet Pea’s escape and her encounter with her own guardian angel. This is supported by the world suddenly recieving the steam-punk style sky which appeared in the fight with the dead soldiers. therefore making it unclear whether she ever found a bus and if she will ever escape

    • it makes sense. thank you

  3. Oh yeah. and at the very end when the bus pulls out the words “paradise cafe” appear on a large billboard next to it. which is an allusion to the lobotomy since it was always referred to around Babydoll as “paradise” proving that it is Babydoll’s fantasy once again. sorry for double commenting i just discovered this and thought it would be cool to share

  4. I’ve read most of the comments and I pretty much agree with everything. (the dancing being a defense mechanism that dr gradski taught the girls so they didn’t suffer that much, the movies ultimate goal to make us draw conclusions blabla)

    The one thing i’ve got my own opinion about, is the guardian angel/old dude… I do believe Sweet Pea escapes, but the scene where we see her boarding the bus, is actually the last of Baby Doll’s imagination stuffs

    As you see BD is seating on the chair and she closes her eyes then the scene with Sweet Pea takes place. We also see that Sweet Pea is wearing clean clothes and she looks showered, I don’t think that if she was in a hurry trying to escape, she would have taken time to shower and all that.

    Maybe the reality was a little less poetic, more like her looking all dirty and getting a help ride from a bus or something, but well Baby Doll had to imagine a nice ending for the “REAL” protagonist of the escape.

    I have my own anti-theory for my own theory (but i don’t really believe it), which would be that BD doesn’t really remember anything anymore cuz’ of the lobotomy, but who knows, nothing about this is really implied, just that she doesn’t talk.

    Great comments

  5. You can actually see what is which reality. Just look at the colors and contrast of the screen on the moment. Is it grayish and blue, and not so much colors, the contrast is very low as well. Then it is the asylum reality. If it contains a bit more color and more costrast than normal, then it is the dance reality. If it has extremely much color and high contrast, then it is the obvious fantasy world.

    Though I think there is this 4th reality, the actual true world outside the asylum, making the bus driver 100% real. Notice how the colors and contrast are precise as it should be in the real world at the begin part of the movie. Just as if you are watching a normal movie, that same color and contrast does not come back until the busdriver scene.

    I think the creator of this movie made it quite easy to see the realities, it was not supposed to be that complex imo. Though the first time you see it, you need to figure it out a bit, and perhaps look at it a second time. Don’t look for anything more behind it after that. That’s my hypothesis.

  6. I am one leaning towards that it was sweet pea’s dreams due to the fact that all the characters in the fantasy world are characters in the real world. The guardian angel/ bus driver and the boy/ young soldiar that is entering the bus was never met by BabyDoll therefore how could they have been in the fantasy world. Sweet Pea also states in the movie it is her show. Because Baby Doll fights the samurai by herself and not with the others can be explained by it is her plan and her courage to be the first of the group to stand up and fight back. The reason she seems to be fighting the most is because of her distracting the adversaries with her “dancing.” What do you guys think?

    • An alternative explanation is that Baby Doll is telling the story years later, so she might have put them into the fantasy scenes to connect the events in the Asylum to the eventual reality she experiences.

      • I just reread my comment and realized I meant to say Sweet Pea, not Baby Doll. If she is telling the story, then she might choose to put some things in the fight fantasies linking to the world Sweet Pea eventually reached.

    • I think that the bus scene still happens in Babydolls fantasies (it’s like her representation of Sweet Peas escape and going into Paradise “freedom”), because it happens right after she closes her eyes after Blue getting arrested.

      • Andrew, I came to the same conclusion you did after about three viewings of the film. I tend to believe Babydoll took elements of her ‘reality’ to create other realities to escape to. Those realities are all connected to one another. She ultimately freed herself (Sweet Pea) and entered paradise.

  7. The little boy at the bus stop at the end is the same boy who is the allied soldier who looks up at one of the girls during the beginning of the Nazi fantasy.

  8. I see two possible explanations to the Guardian Angel character(s). Firstly, it’s possible that it’s just a fantasy aspect of the movie, the very existence of guardian angels, who, as is said in the beginning, can be an old man and a little boy as much as anything else. Therefore the bus driver would, in my opinion, be Babydoll’s angel, whereas the little boy would be the one of Sweet Pea. Or either angel would belong to one of the sisters (whether you mean Babydoll and her sister or SP and Rocket).

    However, the explanation that makes much more sense to me is that the ending where Sweet Pea escaped does not happen in real life, but inside Babydoll’s mind after being lobotomized. She is shown with a satisfied look on her face, two of the same characters (bus driver and the boy) appear in the Sweet Pea scenes, and both were shown only inside Babydoll’s fantasies. And when the bus drives away, the camera kinda zooms into a big poster that writes “Paradise” and sth else.

    • The biggest challenge to this interpretation is what is shown to happen after the lobotomy. Dr. Gorsky mentions that Baby Doll had caused a fire, stabbed an orderly, and helped a patient escape. We see other evidence that what we saw depicted in the night club happened in the asylum: the orderly missing his lighter, the cook missing one of his knives, the burned out closet, and Blue has a stab wound exactly where Blue was stabbed by Baby Doll in the night club.

      The word paradise comes up in several places. It seems in each case it symbolizes different things. The Wiseman promises Baby Doll she will be in paradise if she discovers the five things (the last being that she needs to sacrifice herself to let Sweet Pea escape, meaning her paradise will not be literal or physical).

      When Baby Doll tells the girls she plans to escape, Sweet Pea sarcastically replies, “Send me a postcard from Paradise.” This turns out to be ironic, because it ends up she is in the position to send postcards, not Baby Doll.

      We see the word Paradise on the bottle of alcohol Baby Doll uses to set the fire. Blue asks the lobotomized Baby Doll if she is in paradise and then suggests that she will not be so long as she lives, implying he will abuse her and make her suffer.

      Finally, as the film ends, the word pardise is on a billboard. This implies, assuming Sweet Pea really escaped, that both Baby Doll and Sweet Pea end up in paradise, but these are not the same thing.

      • The ending makes perfect sense.

        A girl (Sweet Pea) really does escape from the hospital as the female doctor mentions to the male doctor. We also see evidence of the fire, and Blue’s stab wound.

        However, Baby Doll has no idea what happened to Sweet Pea after she escaped. The very end is just what Baby Doll thinks Sweet Pea’s life after escape would be like. (In reality, she could have fallen off a cliff or gotten run over by a bus, who knows.) Baby Doll just imagines that her guardian angel is Sweet Pea’s bus driver and is taking good care of her.

        The boy is thrown in the bus scene to further reinforce the idea that this scene is indeed taking place inside of Baby Doll’s head, since she also saw him in the Nazi battlefield.

        • Yes, I agree also. Right at the end when “blue” is about to “abuse” the mindless babydoll (in reality world) cops take him away, then cop shines light on babydolls face and she then she closes her eyes then it goes to the bus scene… and the “wise man” and the “kid” only show up during dreams so its babydoll dreaming about Sweet Pea. Imo they should of added some stuff to show that she was actually happy near the end atleast show her with a little smile. Also cutting out the “highroller” Sex scene, well hardly a sex scene but it would of helped alot if they showed that one because the highroller scene shows how he explains to her how he is going to give babydoll freedom, Then it goes to the part when shes about to get lobotomosed and the doctor who is the highroller and same thing, he makes her free by wipeing her mind of all the bad memorys.

        • This assumes we are seeing what is in Baby Doll’s imagination. While this is a tempting interpretation, given the way the camera pans, if it is in Baby Doll’s imagination, how would the narrator/story-teller know? I think there is strong reason to believe that the movie is basically a story told by Sweet Pea looking back on events and interpreting them in a creative way.

          I think there are two parallel stories to this movie, both about real people and real events. First there is Baby Doll’s story. Consider what this movie would be like if all the material was cut that comes between the first shot of the lobotomy needle at Baby Doll’s eye and when the hammer strikes home. We would have a very rational, if somewhat laconic, story about a young woman committed against her will and given an illegal lobotomy to silence her.

          Consider that the first view of Baby Doll is sitting on a bed on a set on stage. There is also a narrator, which suggests we are being treated to a story (a play is a story, a narrator tells a story).

          After the lobotomy, we are told that the patient set a fire, stabbed an orderly, and helped another patient escape. Before the lobotomy, we saw Baby Doll spotting the lighter, the sign about doors opening in case of fire, the knife, map, and key. If we did not have the “night club” story to go on, we would still assume she managed to somehow obtain those items and use them. That she would stab Blue makes sense since she knows he is plotting to have her lobotomized. We just don’t know anything about how she did it or who she helped escape. The last scene comes full circle and with the arrest of Blue, we have him implicating her step-father.

          The narrator (Sweet Pea, mind you) promises in the opening lines that this will be about how guardian angels help inspire us to fight. But the story without the night club story leaves us guessing as to who that angel might be.

          But there is a second story and it begins much like the first. When we first see Sweet Pea, she is on a prop bed on a stage sitting and looking very much like Baby Doll did in the first scene of the movie. We are being signaled that we are about to learn her story as well. Sweet Pea and Baby Doll make eye contact at this moment. Dr. Gorsky is telling Sweet Pea that she controls what is in her imagination and that can be as real as any pain.

          When the lobotomy is interupted, we see Sweet Pea again on a stage, but this time in an identical situation as Baby Doll’s lobotomy (down to the same background wall and medical machines). But she is putting a stop to the procedure, calling it into question, fighting back. She states, “I’m the star of the show,” another indication this is her story.

          It clearly picks up where Baby Doll entered the asylum, because we have the parallel scene of her being brought by the priest (Father, get it?) from the orphanage. So why don’t we get Sweet Pea’s story from the same view point as Baby Doll’s? Why the night club parallel?

          I think because Sweet Pea is telling the story and she want’s to show how the guardian angels first inspired Baby Doll (Dr./Madame Gorskey encouraging her to fight for her survival). She describes in creative, dream-like fashion how Baby Doll makes the inner transformation from helpless victim (as she is when she first talks to the Wise Man) to the death angel she becomes by the end of the fight. Watching Baby Doll go from a meek, clueless girl who is being kicked around by the first Samurai, to the ever more skillful fighter who distracts and then leaps onto the second Samurai and shots him point black, to the last, where she has arrived as a fighter who knows she will win–that whole sequence is the most exciting and uplifting and well-done part of the film!

          We know that what goes on in the night club version of events has parallels to all the characters, the building, and even the events of the asylum. So it is not in Baby Doll’s or even Sweet Pea’s imagination. It is what happened, just retold in a different setting, like fiction based on real events.

          At the end, when Baby Doll and Sweet Pea are outside the night club, Baby Doll realizes that this is not her story (her words) but Sweet Pea’s story, and that it has been all along. So Sweet Pea shows us how Baby Doll herself became Sweet Pea’s guardian angel. Sweet Pea was not a fighter when Baby Doll first arrives. She wants nothing to do with the escape plan. But she gets drawn in and by the end, volunteers to help and ends up being the only one to escape. She gets free and now (perhaps deacades later) she tells the story to us, to inspire us. That is why she changes the way her story is told, to dramatize their situation and to indicate that it really was a fight by women to overcome the male domination that lead to Baby Doll’s situation and perhaps Sweet Peas as well.

  9. I never thought the dances were her being sexually abused. I thought the fantasies were a metaphor for the dancing, and the dancing was a metaphor for her counseling (as Blue says in the beginning the counseling can be ‘quite a show’). Also the psychiatrist mentions that she wishes she could work with her more, and in the burlesque reality she mentions how her dancing is still too raw and needs to be refined. I believe there is some aspect of her counseling that keeps getting the orderlies attention, possibly having some sort of fit that they need to show up to attempt to calm her or prevent her from hurting others (hence her ‘fighting’ them off in her alternate realities). I assume this does mean she does have a plan with the other girls, but their death doesn’t mean they are really killed. Maybe it just means that someone became aware of their involvement in the plan and are punished by Blue in some way, possibly put in a solitary confinement (which would have still given Rocket the chance to tell her sister to go on without her) because the psychiatrist surely doesn’t actually die.

  10. It’s the boy’s story and the boy is Sweet Pea. He accidentally killed his sister while fighting with his step dad and was sent to an asylum where he was sexually abused by the staff. Sweet Pea, Baby Doll and the other names were what their assailants called them. The fantasy scenes were where he would go mentally while being victimized. They were a conglomeration of what a boy that age would know; video games, movies, anime etc. The bus driver/commander was the boys father, who taught him to defend himself. I think Rocket was really killed by the cook, but the shooting of the other girls was actually them being lobotomized. In the end the boy is freed from the asylum but not Baby Doll.

    • One problem with this is that the story is set in the 1950s, well before a boy would have any notion of video games, explicit movies, high tech weapons, animie, etc.

      A second problem is that the only doctor who can do the lobotomy is the one coming for Baby Doll, so Blondie and Amber would not be lobotomized before then. More likely they were just locked up where they could not take part in anything that happened after that. Or they may have just not been mentally stable enough to keep working on the plan.

      As I’ve discussed at length below, I think the story is Sweet Pea’s and the boy is just foreshadowing by the narator/story teller (Sweet Pea).

      Incidently, the actor playing the boy is Snyder’s son. So he may be in there mostly as a cameo role he can play without having to do much acting.

  11. That’s rediculous.. Anime?? Video games?? in what? the 50s or 60s timeline?? Television was still fairly new, let alone anyone being that advanced just yet. Not only that, but a little boy imagining himself in a brothel as a girl?? I’m sure he knows nothing of what a brothel is let alone capable of imagining himself in one as a female.. Where on earth did this come from?? You aren’t even considering the stories timeline..

  12. I just don’t understand how the burlesque world was fake? Can someone please explain that to me. What about the scene where they take the knife from the cook? And how do they switch from one “fantasy” to another? Thanks.

  13. After watching the DVD, including the extended version, several times, I’m still going with an interpretation I expressed above shortly after the movie opened in theaters.

    The story is being told by Sweet Pea, many years after the events happened. She is telling her story in such a way as to illustrate the point she makes at the beginning and end, that guardian angels appear in the guise of other people with the sole purpose of inspiring us to fight for ourselves and what is right.

    The opening sequence might just be what Sweet Pea imagines happened to Baby Doll or perhaps Baby Doll told Sweet Pea in the brief time Baby Doll was there. She sees Baby Doll enter when on stage and probably sees the father give Blue money. While Blue and the father are talking, Dr. Gorsky is telling Sweet Pea, “You control the world of your imagination.”

    After a few days, we see Baby Doll on Dr. Gorsky’s couch, crying, while music is playing. The doctor probably gave Baby Doll the same encouragement. Dr. Gorsky is Baby Doll’s guardian angel of the moment. Note that in the night club, Madame Gorsky gives Baby Doll the speech with the words, “You have all the weapons you need. Now fight!” Then comes the more elaborate scene in the Dojo with the Wiseman and the 3 Samurai monsters. Baby Doll (in the asylum) becomes determined to escape, forms a plan, shares it with the others, who help her get the items by distracting the guards, leading to some unfortunate consequences for Blondie, Rocket, and Amber, but in the end, Baby Doll sacrifices herself so Sweet Pea can escape. In the process of trying to escape, Baby Doll evolves into Sweet Pea’s guardian angel and gets her to fight. Sweet Pea also gains the freedom promised by the Wiseman and the High Roller (extended version).

    Now since Sweet Pea is telling the story years later, she embellishes and retells the story. Notice that the fantasy level with the night club begins with Sweet Pea in Baby Doll’s situation and she rebels, fights back. That scene begins with the priest bringing orphan Baby Doll to Blue, where Sweet Pea first sees Baby Doll (in the asylum).

    From that point on, the represtation is like a mythic retelling of the events, changed in order to convey emotional content and a moral lesson. It is like a religious story that starts with some real event, but gets other interpretations layered over it, such as the Hebrew Exodus from Egypt or the crucifixion of Jesus. The story teller does not worry about consistency, weaving weapons and genres from a later time (this is also implicit in using music that is post-1950s).

    In this context, the Wiseman appearing at the end, as well as the young boy from the trenches sequence, are people Sweet Pea met later. She wove them into the retelling of the story perhaps as foreshadowing.

    Remember, whatever interpretation you want to suggest, it has to be consistent with the final message of the film: “Who makes everything we experience happen? You. You have all the weapons you need. Now fight!”

    • Best interpretation of the movie.

    • Regarding the scene at the beginning with Babydoll and her little sister and stepfather…

      I agree with most of the above except here’s my explanation of this scene. Babydoll is not real. Sweet Pea has created babydoll in her head. Babydoll and sweet pea are the same person. The scene where she accidentally kills her sister is really sweet pea and Rocket. Rocket always said through the movie that sweet pea is there for her, and when Rocket choose Babydolls side to continue fighting for the items needed, Sweet pea says to Rocket, “After everything I’ve done for you, you’re going to choose her side.” When she imagines the cook going to rape and kill her sister, is a reenactment of when her stepfather attempted to do so. Rocket also mentions something about their mother being dead when she is taking her last breaths.

  14. I agree with Joe S above that the night club “dances” were not necessarily representing sexual abuse or sex as a distraction. (It seems likely that abuse of this sort IS going on, since at the end, the orderlies are saying to Blue that they don’t think it right that they keep on hurting these girls.) When Blue first explains to the step-father about the “theater” he suggests that it can be very entertaining watching them touch or beat each other (something to that effect). This suggests the orderlies might gather when certain girls go on stage and that the Baby Doll in the asylum uses that interest to create her distractions.

    In this interpretation, the first fight scene (in the dojo) was Baby Doll’s first chance to act on stage. Blue and the others are captivated by whatever she does. So the next time she is due up, all Sweet Pea has to do is let Blue know and she then has a chance to get into the office and get a copy of the map. (I’m still puzzled how she could make a copy of a big map using technology available in the 1950s).

    It seems that this could explain how Amber would be able to get the orderly’s lighter, if he had already demonstrated an interest in her or perhaps he abused her before or does so regularly (since in the night club, Amber complains she can never get the smell of his cigars out of her hair and it is pointed out that “the mayor” is her client). While the orderly is watching Baby Doll’s performance, Amber snuggles up to him and lifts the lighter.

    At this point, Blue figures it out and threatens them. They go ahead and try to improvise a performance for the cook, but something interupts them and Rocket gets stabbed.

    Blue punishes Amber and Blondie for their parts in the plot (probably just locks them up in solitary or straight jackets or something unpleasant; I doubt he would be able to have them just killed or lobotomized on such short notice).

    Blue has been holding off abusing Baby Doll, waiting until she has been lobotomized so she will not tell Dr. Gorsky, but perhaps in his anger, he tries to attack her and gets stabbed (with the knife Amber managed to get while the orderlies were focused on Rocket, Sweet Pea, and the cook). Baby Doll gets the key from him while he is temporarily disabled and uses the lighter to create the fire and gets outside the asylum with Sweet Pea. But orderlies are outside, perhaps checking on the fire or keeping the other patients from escaping, so Baby Doll distracts them so Sweet Pea can escape.

  15. Well I do think it’s Sweet Pea that tells the story at the begining and at the end, but she is telling from Babydolls perpective, so the old man and the boy are people from Babydolls fantasies, and the ending scenes of Sweet Pea getting the dress and on the bus still happens on Babdolls world of fantasies, I believe that because they happend right after Baby closing her eyes. And also the sky we see above the bus is very surreal.
    So my conclusion is that the bus scene takes place in the same level of the nazi, high tech, dragon fantasies.

    But I would like to discuss what is meaning of the boy, both times he looks at Sweet Pea he seems pretty sad about something.

    • I don’t think the boy has any real relevance to the movie’s story. I believe they call it a red herring. The boy is the director’s son (Eli Snyder)and was probably just put in for the fun of it.(Kind of like when Stan Lee appears in a Marvel comic adapted movie) He was the only child in the fantasy sequences after all. If memory serves me correct I think the director said something about that in the maximum movie mode on the blu ray version or some other documentary I saw. The director’s son was in Watchmen and 300 as well if i’m not mistaken.

  16. I think Babydoll was suffering from depression after her mother and sister died, this lead her mind to fantastical world of dancers. Minds suffering from depression often blocks reality to cop up with the pressure and makes up fictional worlds.
    I think babydoll was insane in real world as she caused fire, attacked the hospital workers, and help a patient to escape. These were rational actions for babydoll because her mind assumed that she was locked in dancers club and she wanted to escape. But in reality these actions were part of an insane mind which to another person does not make any sense.

    To me sucker punch was a ride through Babydoll’s insane mind and her reflections on the real world. She always knew that in the end she cannot escape her fate and her mind will be lobotomized, that’s probably why in her dancer’s imagination she decide’s to stay and get killed.

    I think sucker punch was underrated by critics and many viewers, it takes us into an Insane person’s mind like “Shutter Island” or “The Mechanic” did.

    • To me, there is nothing in Baby Doll’s behavior that seems insane. She is distraught at recent events, but she shows a tremendous fighting spirit. Rather than retreat into a fantasy world when she knows her step-father is going to assault her sister, she risks her life to get to the ground, gets a gun, and tries to stop him. Once she gets past the shock of events and the sedative wears off, she hears what the orderly is planning and uses the time she has to try to find a way to escape. Seems pretty sane to me.

      The movie shows her looking for a way out and spotting the map, the lighter, etc. Doing the things she does, both in the night club world and the asylum seem completely sane, the actions of someone who is very brave and very determined.

      The message of the film, as stated in the narrative at the beginning and end, is that each one of us is in control of the events that take place in our lives and so when faced with an intolerable situation, we must take heart that we have all the weapons we need to fight back, even when things seem bleak.

      To me, if the events depicted are just a fantasy and an escape from reality, none of this inspirational talk makes any sense.

      That is why I think it is important to recognize that Baby Doll may have used the idea that they were in a night club and that they were being forced to be prostitutes as inspiration or as a way of making the things they had to do seem more dramatic. But in the end, she does all those things and it makes a difference in Sweet Pea’s life.

      It makes more sense to me still if the night club dramatization was invented by Sweet Pea, maybe while they were doing these things or maybe after the fact.

      Snyder has also mentioned that a major inspiration for this film was a book called Illusions, but Richard Bach. This is all about the power of the mind to make things happen in the real world. It is not about being crazy or about using fantasy as a retreat from reality.

  17. To my earlier thoughts i would also like to add that narrative done by sweet pee in the beginning and in the end was her on thoughts on baby doll’s actions in mental asylum, for her babydoll is an Angel.

  18. Hi Lanny,

    But why would you think she stayed in the end? She could have escaped with sweet pea. And also in the end Dr.Gorski said that she was suffering from depression.

    Thanks for the info on illusions book… I didnt know about that. I should give that book a read.

    • I would think the situation in the asylum was parallel to the one Sweet Pea provides through the lens of the night club. They only have a few moments before the fire situation is under control and the orderlies spread out to prevent escapes. Baby Doll provided a distraction that allowed Sweet Pea to escape.

      I think at this point, Baby Doll has her epiphany and realizes that freedom, for her anyway, is not physical freedom from the asylum but freedom from the illusion that she is limited by her body and her physicl situation. By letting go of her attachment to herself, she becomes truly free; this is a very Buddhist view of freedom, but I think there is a lot of that in Bach’s book, Illusions.

      • hm yes.. I agree with this Lenny’s interpretation and Bach’s book is marvelous. I just started reading it and i am enjoying it each and every page.

  19. I agree with this article except for one part. I think that her sister was already dead and that sweet pea shot was just reason for the dad to get off. The sequencing of this part of the movie doesn’t give a clear view of who should be the killer or even if the bullet from sweet pea indeed ricochet off a light bulb, and seriously how could a bullet change direction from a small light bulb…highly unlikely. What happened was the father killed the younger daughter and sweet pea was blamed for it. The viewer was left with an unclear idea of this so they would believe the alternate realities that sweet pea displayed in the metal hospital.

    • I had the same issue until I saw the Extended Cut. In this cut, Baby Doll fires a second shot. This goes through the father’s forearm and the trajectory is such that it is quite possible this bullet might have hit her sister. I think this got cut for some BS reason to do with the PG 13 rating. Can’t show actual woundings or something like that.

  20. First, I’ll start by saying that Sucker Punch is easily one of the best movies I’ve seen in my entire life (I’m in my 20s, for the record, haha).

    I just have a quick comment on the Wise Man appearing in (what may be) the Real World at the end. Here’s my take on it: I believe that Sweet Pea really did escape. Baby Doll helped her out of the asylum, and she made it to the bus station. Of course, it turns out that the Wise Man is also the Bus Driver, and is full of similar wisdom and encouragement.

    That being said, I think that the Wise Man is real in *both* worlds. He is real in Baby Doll’s fantasy fights…and he is also the same, existing being in real life. Of course, this is “impossible…” But, really, it isn’t, methinks.

    Now, this doesn’t explain the little boy being in both places…but I think it’s a nice reading of the ending, in that the entire movie is playing with the notion of what is real. And, it goes further than Inception, because it tells us not only to question what is real…but that we can control our realities!

    Obviously, I loved this movie…and the fact that there are so many interpretations is clear evidence of it’s complexity. And beauty.

    ~L~

  21. Any movie that makes you think like this (that includes movies like Shutter Island and Inception) are good movies.

  22. Think that sweet pea is a reflection of baby doll and rocket and reflection of her sister. She helped a patient escape with the fantasy that she is an extension of herself. I came to this conclusion because when sweetpeas backs out of the plan, rocket mentions that the 3 of them can do it. There’s 5 of them total. Rocket is a representation of her little sister and the motivating thought. They may have been real people, but it is hinted that someone doesn’t exist.

  23. so….. they were in a mental institution right? How come no one seems to believe that maybe some of the other patients were infact ill?

    What if Sweet pea was there for multiple personality disorder and the other 3 girls were infact manifestations of her other personalities. And once those 3 girls were killed sweet pea was left to live a normal life, without the burden of multiple personalities. and babydoll helped her escape? At the begining of the film wasn’t sweet pea the only girl that was focused on by babydoll?

    It’s possible right?

    • To me the big question is why Sweet Pea and Rocket were in the asylum. If my interpretaton above is correct, Sweet Pea is telling the whole story, so she knows, but she deliberately hides the information in the night club story by making it sound like Rocket ran away from home, and Sweet Pea came after her and they both got trapped into the forced prostitution racket. But if the night club is really the asylum, what would that suggest about how they got there?

      I think that we will never know, but one possibility is that their situation was similar to Baby Doll’s. Perhaps Rocket was abused by their father, and when she threatened to report him, he got her committed before she could talk. Perhaps Sweet Pea acted out in the same way so she too would be committed so she could protect her sister.

      One reason I think this might be true is that when Baby Doll first enters the asylum, Sweet Pea is sitting on the stage, where we are told the patients act out “who touched them or beat them.” She was sitting in the same way that Baby Doll was when we first see her, also on stage. Perhaps Sweet Pea identified with Baby Doll because they experienced similar betrayals.

      Also, Rocket talks about being the one who had a problem with “mom.” Nothing about the father. She tells Sweet Pea to tell their mother she loves her. Perhaps their mother did not know about the abuse the father was inflicting and the father made it look like she was hateful.

      Pure speculation, of course, but it might fit the few hints we have from Sweet Pea’s version of events. Ultimately, it probably does not matter for the moral of the story to be told.

      As for Amber and Blondie, I suspect they may have been mentally disturbed, but had it together enough to be of some help. But they eventually broke down and could not stick to the plan and let it slip, perhaps while in therapy with Dr. Gorsky.

  24. (Andrew Henrique)

    The bus scene can’t be part of Babydoll’s fantasy, because at this point she had already been lobotomized, so she would have been unable to fantasize anymore.

    Anyway I too have a little theory, in the opening sequence we here Sweetpea narrate “Everyone has an angel” and “we don’t know what form they will take”. Maybe she is talking about Babydoll? I mean it is Babydoll that sets her free, by helping her escape.
    So this would also lead me to believe that it is Sweepea telling the story of her angel (Babydoll), thus they are Sweetpeas memories and fantasies.

    • Yeah, after some time thinking about it, I’m tending to believe the whole story on the movie is really told by Sweet Pea, maybe even the opening scene where the accident with Babydoll’s sister was told by Sweet Pea.
      What makes me think like that is Sweet Pea dressing like Babydoll on the beggining of the mental institute scene.
      And the voice in the beggining and at the end is Sweet Pea’s too.

  25. After i read all the comments things really cleared up. Baby Doll wasnt sexually abused but instead was fighting the other girls (im guessing), dr. Gorski even says ‘Your fight for survival starts now’ or how blue says something like ‘it’s really quite a show seeing them hurt whoever touches or beats them’.

    Then also, some people think the girls were reflections of either Baby Doll or Sweat Pea. After i read the comments i could make up that they were all real.

    The whole story is indeed Sweat Pea’s story. (e.g. her narrarating, Baby Doll says at the end ‘this just wanst my story, it’s your’s’).
    Baby Doll is just Sweat Pea’s guardian angel, and the wise man is Baby Doll’s guardian angel.

    People have also been arguing about the end scene with the buss. It could of been real, since all of Baby Dolls fantasies were REFLECTIONS of the real world, meaning that all the people in her dreams were infact with her in the real world. The wise man being there just means that he will now look over Sweat Pea like he protected Baby Doll. Im not quite sure why the boy is there at that moment.

    But if it wasnt real, then it was just Baby Doll fantasizing it, which would make sence, because Baby Doll does infact close her eyes as we go into the bus scene. HOWEVER this wouldnt be technically possible since she was just lobotomized, but maybe since Baby Doll was in her dream world all along, the lobotomy might not of affected her. (also read something that people without mentall illnes arent affected by lobotmy).

    The ending scene can either be real un a fantasy, thats atleast with all the info i managed to pick up.

    Baby Doll didnt escape her fate, but she escapes the asylum through her fanasy worlds, meaning she wasnt physically set free but mentally. Then again, i guess the lobotmy must not of affected her if she wants to be able to escape into her fantasies and be free.
    However there is a spark of brightness at the end, that being Sweat Pea’s escape.

    This is my conslusion of the movie, also my opinion, so if u think im wrong just tell me your opinion. I’d really like to know how Zack Snyder actually ment this movie to unfold. :D

    Btw i found this movie VERY depressing.

  26. Btw if anyone has any info about Baby Doll’s lobotomy i’d be really glad to hear. Because i can’t decide wether or not it really made her lose her memories. Because in the extended scene with the high roller, he tells her he can set her free of all of the pain and suffer she’s been through. Although when you see her face again it doesnt seem like she’s just been lobotomized…

    • The high roller setting her free, is the lobotomy. When he lobotomizes her, he sets her free. When she finally wakes up after the lobotomy, is that when you think she does not seem like she was just lobotomized?

      Because the lack of any sort of awareness or emotional response that she had, seems the proper state to be in after a lobotomy.

      Also in the soundtrack, it closes with a song called “asleep” and BD is singing in it and frequently sings “where is my mind” which would have fit in great because you are no longer yourself after this operation.

      Allen explained everything in a pretty clear way.

  27. Hi, me again. Sorry for the spamming, but before i posted some stuff while i didnt even have a 100% clear view on this movie. But now that ive read ALL the comments (litterly ALL, i really want to all the detals :p) ive read a lot of different theories on the movie and a lot of different oppinions. But leaving me with a lot of questions and vague answers.

    But can anyone PLEASE explain EVERYTHING?

    For example:
    1.Were they all 1 person or not? (my guess is not).
    2.Was BD really sane? because im really thinking she never was…
    3.and i still cant decide wether or not is was BD’s or SP’s memories/story. after all it was SP telling us from the future (narrarating), but i think thats its BD’s..
    4.also, was the ending bus scene real? im guessing it wasnt, since the colours were so to say ‘fantasy colors’. leading to me next question:
    5.if BD could still dream/fantasies after having her lobotomy that would mean that the lobotomy didnt make her lose her memories. (there was a discussion about this, some people said that BD still remembered everything after her lobotomy. was this true?)

    i have a few more questions, but i just cant remember them right now.
    someone PLEASE answer my questions, right now i cant focus on 1 thing and then thinking about how sad and depressing this movie made me.
    would really help me if someone answered my questions. (if anyone still reads this forum or comes here).
    thanks!

  28. Sucker Punch uses a brilliant plot device originally seen in An Occurance at Owl Creek Bridge, a BAFTA and Oscar winning French short film from 1962. The American rights were purchased by Rod Serling and was the only Twilight Zone episode to air that was not made for the show. At that time Occurance was touted as the greatest short film ever made. Since Mr. Sterling was to TV then as Jerry Bruckheimer is now, he was something of an authority on what was great film making. For him to run Occurance as a TZ episode speaks volumes. Go watch Occurance (as a Twilight Zone episode) and you’ll see what’s going on with Baby Doll’s lobotomy and how this movie is playing out to the audience.

    Sucker Punch is about Baby Doll’s descent into insanity at the moment of her lobotomy. All of the fantasies are hers. Reality ends and fantasy begins when the probe is placed against her face (Zack Snyder said this in an interview), and all the fantasies occur in her mind in the last instant before the Doctor drives the probe into her brain. Since it’s a movie and a story is being told, the audience then sees reality again (because the fantasy-maker can no longer fantasize) first as the discussion between the Doctor and Gorsky, then when Sweetpea makes her escape.

    Baby Doll’s fantasies are flashbacks; bizarre manifestations created by her mind in her last concious moment where she relives the horrors of her five days in the asylum as something phantasmic and netherworldly. Sweetpea is the narrator because someone has to be telling the story (just as Delios, the only survivor, was the story teller in 300).

    Carefully listening to the narration explains the guardian angel elements and the fact that there are many manifestations throughout the film. Understanding that rape was commonplace and ordinary in mental institutions in the past justifies Baby Doll’s halucinations when she’s remembering the last 5 days of her life at the moment of her demise, and why she remembers them as “dancing” instead of being raped. Carefully watching the backgrounds in the scenes show where many of the items in Baby Doll’s fantasies come from, such as the flintlock pistol Rocket carries into battle is first seen on the wall behind the stepfathers desk in Baby Doll’s home (lots of others, but you go look for them). Realizing that every scene in a movie is significant, and watching every scene carefully gives context to the action. Mr. Snyder goes out of his way to show the stepfather writing down Baby Doll’s age as 20 so we’ll know she’s not a child (and so he can’t be accused of making kiddie porn). One of the police cars in the scene where Baby Doll is caught is a 67 Ford, so this is not a 1950′s era movie. 20 year old women in 1967 were not children. Baby Doll fantasizing about a brothel where sex is replaced with dancing would be just the sort of thing a young person might conjure up in their last moment of awareness after being subjected to unspeakable evil for 5 days, after their Mother had died, after accidentally killing their little sister, and knowing they were going to be lobotomized 5 days after being thrown into an asylum.

    If you want to understand this film, listen to interviews Mr. Snyder and the cast have given, watch other film like this (Occurance), watch other films Mr. Snyder has made (300), and watch other “flashback” films where the audience is taken into the past through memory (Saving Private Ryan). A dose of “people going crazy” films like Pink Floyd’s The Wall will also add insight.

    After all that, if you listened to what Mr. Snyder (the guy who actually made Sucker Punch) has said then you’ll realize he tried to duplicate what Stanley Kubrick did with 2001 where the audience is left to determine exactly what the film means to them individually. However, making comments that contradict what Mr. Snyder has said renders your comments moot because they are wrong on their face. Learn a little bit about something before you talk about it. Every opinion anyone has about Sucker Punch is correct – because it’s just an opinion – unless you contradict the film’s creator.

    • ohh thanks for all the info.
      but i have seen a lot of his movies, but i dont see any direct link to sucker punch.
      but the only thing i dont understand is how Baby Doll is still able to fantasize after being lobotomized. Or is she not fantasizing at all?
      and im assuming that after Blue and the other orderlies got arrested, she no longer was in any kind of danger?
      thanks for your time answering my questions btw.

      • Btw, again for the multi posting. Id like to just add some stuff to my previous comment. (my reply to urs)
        ive watched occurance and i find no lesson to be learned in it :o. i might be stupid, im not as high educated as you, im still going to school.
        anyway, im guessing Baby Doll wasnt fantasizing about the buss scene, because SP says somewhere in the movie ‘one day old man, next day little girl’ probably referring to BD and her so called “angel”. Thats because they helped her escape. (BD from the asylum, and the bus driver from the cops). So that scene mustnt of been a fantasy.
        Anyway, im just in a deep depression about BD getting lobotomised D:, although something makes think that the lobotomy didnt do anything to her. Then again thats probably me not wanting that it did.

        • If you can’t see the identical plot device used in Occurrence as was used in Sucker Punch, then I don’t know how to answer any question you might pose (or you’re just lying about having seen Occurrence or you don’t really remember it).

          In Occurrence the main character reaches the moment of his demise. In that moment he fantasizes his escape and the moviegoer watches that fantasy. Then he is put down and the film returns to reality. In Sucker Punch the main character reaches the moment of her demise. In that moment she fantasizes her escape and the moviegoer watches that fantasy. The she is put down and the film returns to reality. It’s as simple as bonking Dorothy on the head and she goes from Kansas (reality) to Oz (fantasy), but she manages to come back to Kansas (reality) so there’s a happy ending. Thankfully in TWOZ the film went from black and white (reality) to color (fantasy) so the audience could keep up. All Mr. Snyder did was take the audience from a world that could exist to worlds that could not exist and back again. Blue without the moustache (reality) and Blue with the moustache (fantasy) should have been enough of a clue, but apparently nobody’s paying attention to what’s actually on the screen.

          It’s a movie. There’s a onmiscent point of view (the Director’s). That’s how Sweetpea can narrate it from the beginning. That’s how we see fantasy scenes where only Blue and Gorsky are present. They’re simply what Baby Doll conjurs up in her fantasies as she remembers or imagines the last 5 days of horror she just went through while dreading the lobotomy she knows is inevitable.

          To you first post; (1) you said you’ve seen a “lot of his movies” but dont see any direct link to Sucker Punch. Who is the “his” you are referring to? It can’t be Serling because he didn’t make Occurrence and it can’t be Snyder because he made Sucker Punch and I think that’s a pretty direct link. So who did you mean? (2) You ask how Baby Doll was able to fantasize after her lobotomy. She isn’t. She’s fantasizing during the moment before the lobotomy. The fantasy ends at the instant the hammer strikes home (just as the fantasy in Occurrence ends when the hanged man reaches the end of his fall at the end of the rope.) (3) Your comment about Baby Doll not being in danger after Blue and his droogs were arrested is nonsensical. Baby Doll is lobotomized. That’s the end of her part of the story. Cut to Sweetpea who escapes because of Baby Doll’s sacrifice (just like we cut to Delios after Leonidis dies in 300). (4) The bus scene was after the lobotomy so was not fantasy (and is identical to Delios telling the story of Leonidis to the Greeks at the end of 300 after the defeat at the Hot Gates – main character is no more, follow supporting character to finish the tale.) (5) If you listen to the narration you hear that in the world of Sucker Punch as a film there are guardian angels in many forms. They are in the reality and the fantasy scenes as the Scott Glen characters (Samurai master, company commander, B25 crewchief, whatever he was at the UH1H helipad, bus driver) and Baby Doll was Sweetpea’s guardian angel in reality (the moral of the story).

          Give up on the idea that the Baby Doll character wasn’t destroyed. Mr. Snyder’s film company is named Cruel and Unusual for a reason. It ain’t Disney.

          Don’t just watch films – read their screenplays (the Sucker Punch screenplay is for sale on the web), read the statements made by the artists who created them, learn the history of film and see where ideas come from (there are no new stories, just new versions of the same old stories starting with the Greeks centuries before our BC/AD reference point). Did you see the movie Arachnaphobia? Know where the name comes from? Arachne was a mortal weaver who bested the Greek Godess Minerva in a weaving contest whereupon Minerva killed her. Then taking mercy on Arachne, Minerva restored her to life as the spider but let her keep her weaving skills – thus “arachnids.” It’s a 3000 year old story. Almost every name and every part of every story has a similar ancient beginning. Shapespeare ripped off tales that had been passed down by word of mouth for ages. He just wrote them down at a point in time when that became possible as a career path in his society. Lucas ripped off everybody from the Romans to the Lakota when writing Star Wars.

          By the way (that’s BTW to you), your slaughter of grammar, capitalization, punctuation, spelling and your Cuisinart-worthy mixing of textspeak with the written form of English here where there’s no need to minimize keystrokes (like on the latest thumber-fad – Twitter) demonstrates the complete absence of grace and style your generation lazily utilizes everywhere. And that’s not a criticism, it’s an observation. I’m glad you and yours choose to communicate in your particular abbreviated manner because nothing any of you write down will ever be quoted in the ages to come. Your internet slang is fine when dealing with your peers, but when I’m putting thoughts before the public I try to use my best voice. That would be yewbfwdwypbwiptbtpittumbv to you. WTFMF?

          • Thanks for all the answers, although i have just 1 last question.
            The so called “paradise” BD is in when Blue tries to rape her at the end, is that a fantasy shes in? Because i thought she wasn’t able to fantasize no more.
            Also, i’m not lying. I’ve seen Occurance, i just thought that you ment there was more to it. I also understood that there were 3 layers of fantasies/reality worlds.
            I’d also like to point out, that you called me lazy. I don’t mind you doing that, as you are more educated than me i might look/sound stupid to you or anyone else. But i’ve been researching about Sucker Punch for a long time and i dont think im lazy if i say so myself. I just cant pick up things when as fast as you might be able to.
            Thanks again for taking your time answering, after this question i will no longer bother you.

            • When Blue was molesting Baby Doll after her lobotomy was reality (or movie reality). When Blue has a moustache it’s fantasy. When Blue doesn’t have a moustache it’s reality.

              Please pay closer attention to the words. I did not call you lazy. I said your generation lazily does something specific. I also pointed out it was not a criticism. Your generation takes shortcuts when communicating. Shortcuts can be a wonderful things, but if you want to express yourself to others I think people should be precise and have enough pride in their ideas to show them with their best effort. For example, I realize it takes a few extra seconds to make “i” into “I” when referring to one’s self, but I’m sure 99.9999999% of young people have the time. It’s not like they have to rush through whatever instant message or tweet they’re thumbing so they can get back to the brain surgery or rocket science they need those precious extra seconds for. Just my opinion. If you feel your thoughts and ideas are adequately presented to the world with abbreviations, shortcuts, textspeak or other abominations grown from the internet/cell phone/blackberry/whatever world, so be it. My thoughts and ideas deserve my best effort. You use every shortcut you can. It is lazy. But it’s obviously what you feel your thoughts and ideas deserve. Nothing wrong with it. There’s nothing wrong with being lazy if it’s what you want to be. My motto for life is “Never stand when you can sit, never sit when you can lay.” When it comes to conserving my energy, I’m the epitome of lazy. But I put great stock in ideas so I invest my energies in them. If you don’t want to, that’s okay. But if you’re going to accuse me of doing something, please get it right. Here’s what someone like me would write if we wanted to call you lazy: You are lazy. I did not write that earlier. This is a perfect example of why I put my best efforts forth when communicating. And I pay close attention to what others write. In an earlier post you made a comment that I did not understand, so in the fourth paragraph I asked you about it as my comment labeled (1). You ignored my question. That’s okay. I tried to answer your questions. You skipped over mine. See the difference between us. I’m actually interested in your comments. It’s called a dialogue. But I’m not going to attribute something to you wrongly. That would be ill mannered of me, and sort of a shortcut. I read your comments attentively, you skim over mine. Not a criticism, another observation. See, I really want to know what’s going on in this dialogue. You seem content with with you “think” is going on. Neither way is right or wrong. They’re just different. And in my long experience, one works better than the other.

              And since I really want to know, I’ll ask again,(1) you said you’ve seen a “lot of his movies” but dont see any direct link to Sucker Punch. Who is the “his” you are referring to? It can’t be Serling because he didn’t make Occurrence and it can’t be Snyder because he made Sucker Punch and I think that’s a pretty direct link. So who did you mean?

              • Thanks, but it doesn’t really answer my question. I realize that is it reality (asylum), but Blue says that shes in “Paradise”. Is this paradise of hers a fantasy, if not what is it?

                Also Allen, i didn’t mean to ignore your question, i probably just forgot about it when replying to your comment. Go ahead call me stupid, but by no mean i ment to ignore any of your questions.
                In that comment where I said I saw a lot of his movies, I meant Zack Snyder. I did not express that clearly, I must admit.

          • Exactly what you said, I said in one of my very first comments without knowing all of that history of film… I never saw Occurrence. You hit it right on the nose. I do believe people are making the movie far more complex than what it needs to be in interpretation. Everything is quite in your face. I like your style.. people take literature and basic grammar for granted these days. As a matter of fact, people take everything of quality for granted these days!

            • Haha, English isn’t my first language, thats probably why my grammar and litterature isn’t the best. In fact when talking to friends on facebook or anything my grammar is even worse :p.
              People are making it more complex than it is. But i must admit that the movie at first was hard to understand for me also, and probably for anyone else. Now that I think about it, most of my questions were quite easy to explain although not everything was as clear to me.

              • LOL, you are real cool George.. I can understand that…
                Yeah, I CAN see how you can get confused when initially seeing the movie, but then, I think once you grasp the concept that her fabrication of her reality happened in an instant PRIOR TO that very point of lobotomization, you get it, because everything DID happen.. just not in the order that we wanted it to. It also helps to identify that each world is one of its own, yet understand that there are hints that clue you in on them all being connected and that there is a purpose for each one that then drags you all the way back to what is really going on- a young girl with nothing to lose fighting back.. Making it even more different? It wasn’t dark and gloomy, but glamourized.. Who wants to see a gloomy movie from beginning to end?? Especially during the summer? Something different had to be presented here to separate this movie from the others. The movie is all about human psyche- obviously- because the movie was designed to tickle our minds and excite us.. That’s what keeps us coming back for more..

                • thanks, u are as well. :)
                  but yes, i do indeed understand most of it now, although the very end Blue says she’s in “Paradise”. I thought she wasn’t able to fantasize no more after being lobotimised?
                  I found the movie to be very depressing for me, I try make it glamorouz but yet I can’t. In my opinnion i found the movie to be very sad, I watched it on a plane when i was going on vacation. After i got off the plane I couldnt stop thinking about Sucker Punch for the rest my my holiday.
                  It isn’t Disney as Allen told me, i totally agree. Yet i still cant find a way to cope with the darkness of this movie.

                  • My bad, i ment ‘you’ at the beginning.

                  • Ok, wow I am 12 and I bet George is like, 17. George seriously, I use grammar everywhere. ( Please excuse any mistakes, my keyboard is broken). I have watched the movie 17 times aftr reading the mustache thing by Allen, I can tell the difference between the Relam’s, thank you Allen.

            • I don’t know if it’s taking so much for granted or they just don’t realize the worth of certain things. If young people see a VW go by they pay it no mind. If they see a Lamborghini go by they pay attention. They realize the value of style in some things but not others. Textspeak is to communicating what the VW is to transportation. It works, but there’s nothing to catch anyone’s attention. A great idea badly written is ignored. A great idea well written with style is immortal.

              Actually, I’m glad so many thumbers use their shortspeak/textspeak gibberish. It makes it easy to pick out who to ignore. It’s like walking into a room full of people and wondering who you want to talk to. I look for the folks who take pride in their style, appearance, posture and hygiene. Same with communicating. I look for the ideas from people who take pride in how they present them. Sort of like picking out the movies I go see. If it looks like a lot went into the effort, I go. If it looks amateurish, I don’t go.

              I’ve also found out most young people are so devoid of so much that they can’t compete with me in any arena. Makes my life easier. And the few young people who actually are trying to learn and do and have style and have honor and have integrity are automatic allies to me in any endeavour.

              • I also noticed it wasn’t a criticism, by the way you bash in on me it just felt like you did. But probably that’s just me…
                I just don’t understand, why I would be “skipped” as you say on a forum, by writing how I feel is appopriate? You might find it gibberish, and some of it might be. I agree that my writing style can be improved. Although it’s not my first language, and my grammar and litterature won’t be as good as yours for a couple of years. I don’t skim through your comments, in fact I sometimes read through them twice. I didn’t mean to skip any of your questions, as you don’t have many to ask me.

                • George, I didn’t say yours or anyone else’s comments would be “skipped” over because of what you had written, I said your comments would be skipped over because of the way they were written. When people won’t show others a little respect by taking the time to use the proper form of the language when expressing themselves, then why should people read their comments? If the writer puts only a minimum of effort in expressing themselves, it says to me they don’t think their ideas deserve much effort, so why should I invest in them? It’s about style. If your comments look lazily written, then I surmise they were lazily contrived. A raw diamond is still a diamond and of great worth, but it’s hard to recognize among the other rocks. Do the work to cut and polish that diamond and it’s still just a diamond, but now it stands out because of its style. Well written comments stand out the same way. Given that there are so many things to read on the internet, I prefer to examine the ones that stand out. Lazily written ideas are just litter. Well written comments are the gems.

                  Style. It gets you noticed. It shows what you think of yourself. You’re like the guy in the room wearing a hoodie and baggy jeans among a hundred other guys wearing hoodies and baggy jeans. I’m the guy who walks in wearing a suit. Guess who’ll get noticed among the crowd.

                  • Alright I get your point, but how can you know wether or not people like me invest time in their comments and replies and I’m probably not the only one “wearing a hoody and baggy jeans”, and you probably aren’t the only one “wearing a suit”. But I understand what your saying.

                    • George, now you’re taking time to use capitalization and punctuation in your comments, but you still signed on without bothering to capitalize your name. I hope you haven’t changed your style of writing because of me. Be your own man, have your own style. Abbreviations and textspeak are great if you want to fit in with your peers. Personally, I don’t want to be mistaken for a thumber. Millions of years of evolution gave me ten fingers so I use them all. I think it’s regressive to limit one’s self to the inferior manner of communication using only two thumbs. You can play “Chopsticks.” I prefer to play symphonies.

                      And you’re right, there are lots of thumbers on the internet who won’t put out the effort to make their comments look or sound stylish. There are also lots of us who will put out the effort. Nothing wrong with either one because it’s a personal choice. But I think if I show people I have taken the time to learn how to spell, punctuate and the rest of what it takes to display what I communicate as correctly as possible then it might follow that I’ve spent the same sort of time and effort on the content. The way I write is built on centuries of mankind learning how to write and building on what came before. When I comment on a movie or other subject I base my thoughts on what came before. I’ve been watching and learning about movies for half a century. I saw An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge the night it played on the Twilight Zone in 1963. When I saw Sucker Punch on its opening day I recognized the parallel and shared it in my comments. Just like I saw the comparisons to The Wizard of Oz and other movies. Zack Snyder made a great movie, but it was by no means original. But in 1962 Occurrence won a BAFTA and an Oscar. Today’s critics trashed Sucker Punch. Sort of says a lot, I think. Visually Sucker Punch was awesome, the soundtrack was captivating, the story (if paid attention to) was intricate, engaging and emotional. But the “establishment” thinks movies about stuttering monarchs deserve accolades. But even if someone did not like Mr. Snuder’s movie the should at least give it their attention because of the effort and style he poured into it.

                  • Well all I have to say now is thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. Although I don’t seem to be taking any longer than when i first made a comment on this forum, I also don’t realize and change in my grammar and punctuation. But my last question hasn’t been answered yet. If you could be so kind to answer it that would be great!

                    What was the “fantasy” Baby Doll was in, when Blue tried to “take his toy home”.

                    Thanks again for taking your time and answering my questions.

                  • Did you get my reply?

                    • I haven’t seen the movie since I saw it in theaters, but the fantasy BD is in after the lobotomy, is her lobotomized state of mind. If you ever do any research on the abysmal success rate of various lobotomies, ultimately most just made the person who received it much more emotionless, like many people feel when they are on anti-depressants, except much more severe. There are only a few cases of successful lobotomies that didn’t basically destroy the persons ability to have normal brain function.

                      So, by saying BD was in her fantasy after the lobotomy, means that she was checked out mentally, out of her mind, etc. His point was that he could have his way with her from now on and she wouldn’t know the difference. He (blue) felt that after a lobotomy, the patient would go into a fantasy world.

                      Hope that is clear enough. I was also pretty sad with the ending, but it was a great movie and it got me thinking plenty at the time, which is what the director was going for. I still feel it was originally supposed to be a musical but then everything changed for some reason. Look into that one if you want to really use your brain to see how the movie would have made more/less sense in that form.

                  • And guess who all the kids in the hoodies and baggy jeans think is an jerk? You. I’m pretty sure that the majority of people on this web page want to talk about the movie, not be told that their grammar is lacking. That’s insane.

                    Awesome movie. :)
                    p.s. Some people don’t have money for things such as buying screenplays off the internet. Everyone has their right to opinion, thats what this web page is for. If you want to make people feel like crap for writing “lazily”, go teach an English class.

          • Just to let ya know, I doubt anything written on forums will be quoted in the ages to come. And finding even remotely good grammar, much less proper spelling or words on comments is a rare thing.

            And I think you need to get off your high horse with attacking all young people, Im 23, I would guess that makes me part of the generation of lazy people who you state couldn’t compete with you in any arena. I have to say this statement is just silly. I am sure you could school us in grammar and spelling thanks to our failing school systems, but never assume your better in every way then people. Even the bum on the corner of the street could teach you something you never knew, it may not be useful, but its always true. But I am sure you know this, as you are so wise and likely were just exaggerating.

            Otherwise your comment was very enlightening for me and I intend to watch Occurrence asap. ;)

            • Thanks, that does indeed clarify a lot of things. But just to get things straight. You’re saying that BD’s lobotomy wasn’t succesful, still remembers everything but just doesn’t have any emotions no more? And by “out of her mind” you mean she went sane?
              Sorry for my lack of understanding, but from what I’ve read on the internet. Is that people that weren’t sane (assuming BD wasnt sane ofcourse) just got cured from pains (e.g. back pains/injuries anything like that), and that it didn’t affect the patient in any other way besides that.

              Thanks for replying.

              • Everybody pay attention. The fantasy realms happen in the moment immediaely before Baby Doll is lobotomized. The orbitoclast is placed at her eye (no lobotomy yet), the fantasies happen (all in an instant, sort of a “life flashing before your eyes” kind of thing), then the hammer strikes and Baby Doll is no more. Cut back to reality and the story continues.

            • Matt, brush up on your reading comprehension. Nothing in any of my posts “attacks” anybody like you seem to have imagined. Taking shortcuts like improper grammar, etc. is lazy (like my abbreviating the phrase “et cetera”). That’s not a criticism or an attack, and if you read and understand my posts you will see me point out to George that if he chooses to communicate in a lazy fashion (which is his choice and okay to do) then his thoughts will not be given the same attention as a well written thought (except by young people who admire laziness in others, seemingly because it legitimizes their own lackluster efforts). I happen to like lazy people and want the world to have more of them so it’s easier to stand out from the crowd. So it would be foolish of me to “attack” them like you thought you read in my earlier posts when you scanned them.

              Your doubting something written on the internet not being profound enough to endure is a sad indictment of what you think of all this effort among so many people. Great thoughts written anywhere will be remembered, repeated, and become part of our daily lives. “Four score and seven years ago our forefathers . . . ” was written on the back of an envelope. It was a lot better effort than “87 years ago our parents . . .”

              The forum isn’t important. Great words are great words no matter where. The internet would be a greater tool for exchanging ideas and experiences and interests if there wasn’t so much drivel thumbed by so many droolers.

              syckmamfiydawmbiarayaw – This acronym is why people who wish to be understood as well as possible give it their best effort. Exchanging ideas is hard enough without the arrogance that everybody can translate whatever made up textspeak nonsense a bunch of slackers tossed into the mix to show how cool they can be. Reading that tripe is like listening to children speak in pig latin. Only the children find it interesting. Of course, to other children it’s highly entertaining. Not a critism – an observation. Learn the difference, please.

  29. Hi, whats the reason the girl was headed for Fort wayne? im not from there but there must be some significance for it besaides her family being there?

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