6 Reasons Why Jedi Could Be Villains In a ‘Star Wars’ Movie

Published 1 year ago by This is a list post.

Star Wars Jedi Villains There's no mistaking it: Star Wars is back and ready to return to the heights it once enjoyed. With J.J. Abrams at the helm of Star Wars: Episode VII, fans are looking forward to new films carrying on the legacy of the Rebellion's heroes. But that's not the only direction to take. Now that confirmed standalone movies are also in the plans alongside major Episodes, the characters and stories that can be explored are far more numerous. We've already listed the Star Wars spin-offs we'd like to see, but the more we think about it, permanently relegating the Sith or 'Dark Jedi' to the role of villain seems to be making one massive assumption. At this point, the whole 'Light Side good, Dark Side bad' idea is common knowledge; but that's only according to the Jedi. History, as we know, is written by the victor. We tend to agree with the belief that the Sith were evil-doers and extremists, but it might be worthwhile to actually look at what drove them to that point, and see if a story can't be told placing the Jedi in the role of antagonists. Allow us to outline 6 Reasons Jedi Could Be Villains In a Star Wars Movie.

The Sith Weren't Always Bad

Star Wars Sith Origins

What should be made clear off the bat is that the Sith didn't just show up like boogeymen one day and start terrorizing the innocent. They were Jedi to begin with - only more radical in their views of the galaxy and what their gifts should be used for. The first Jedi Exiles - the group that would one day found the Sith - were simply one side of a civil dispute within the Jedi Order, known as the Second Great Schism. Whatever extremes each side pushed the other toward, it should be known that at no point did the Sith huddle around a fire and decide to crush all life in the galaxy; they were conquerors in search of mastery over life itself, not genocidal maniacs. They even developed their own Sith Code, opposing that preached by Jedi. Rather than speaking of existence as it should be, they focused on the way it was. The Code reads: -Peace is a lie, there is only passion. -Through passion, I gain strength. -Through strength, I gain power. -Through power, I gain victory. -Through victory, my chains are broken. -The Force shall free me. While the Jedi taught their followers that love, anger or passion were forbidden, the Sith embraced the full range of human emotion; passion is what makes people powerful, and free. The original Star Wars movies clearly show that the Skywalkers don't share the belief that love is to be avoided, and it's arguable that most of humanity would relate more to the Sith's view of passion as a good thing. The first Jedi Exiles' aims to revive dead worlds may not have been something their brethren believed in, and resulted in them being cast out, but it wasn't spawned by malice.

The Jedi Were Hypocrites

Star Wars Rakata Forcesabers Fascist governments throughout history have proven that the denial of....unpopular progress on grounds that it challenges existing beliefs of what's "right" is one of mankind's worst habits: Galileo, for instance, was called a heretic for claiming the Sun, not the Earth, was the center of the universe. It's no secret that the Jedi oppose anything - anything - to do with the Dark Side, since nothing good ever comes from it. What is less known is that before the Galactic Republic, the galaxy was largely ruled by the Rakata race's 10,000 year Infinite Empire. Like many others, this empire was built on cutting-edge technology (like the first widely-used hyperdrives). And it was all thanks to the Dark Side. Once the Rakata empire collapsed 25,000 years prior to the films, the technology was up for grabs, with the Corellians among the first to circumvent the Dark Side components of Rakata warp drives and sell the technology wholesale. The result was helpful, so no one batted an eyelash. Transportation's one thing, but the trademark of the Jedi Order - the lightsaber - is one that could only be crafted by those in tune with the light side of the Force, right? Right. The Rakata called their version 'Forcesabers,' using the Force to channel dark energy into a solid blade. The Jedi, as they did elsewhere, saw the potential made possible through 'ways of the Dark Side,' and adapted it for their own aims. Sure the technology was used by the Rakata for conquering and domination, but if every advancement that aided warfare was seen as inherently evil, the world would be a very different place. Maybe the Jedi actually meant that 'nothing good comes from the Dark Side... anymore.'

The Jedi Helped Commit Genocide

Star Wars Jedi Sith Great Schism

If it's possible to bring the morality of the Jedi into question, it's in the way they treat their enemies. After the First Great Schism came to an end, and the last twelve 'Dark Jedi' surrendered, public demand for their execution ran high. Ever the merciful diplomats, the Jedi chose to spare the lives of their fallen brethren and their followers. They then proceeded to strip their former allies of their weapons and armor, boarded them onto unarmed transport ships, and sent them into Unknown Space. It's hard to say what the Jedi intended to happen to the Exiles, but when the helpless prisoners found the race of red-skinned Sith on the planet Korriban, they did what Jedi do: shared their beliefs and technology, and laid the foundations of a new empire. Old feuds die hard, so once the Sith had emerged as a suitable army for their Dark Jedi leaders - now Sith Lords - the unbelievably named Great Hyperspace War began. The Sith ultimately succumbed to infighting, and the Republic and Jedi were victorious. Clearly, their actions 1,900 years earlier hadn't worked: the Dark Jedi had survived, and now ruled over a previously-unknown race of Force-sensitive humanoids. Republic Chancellor Pultimo looked upon an enemy that no longer posed a threat, and ordered the Jedi and Republic forces to invade Sith Space and destroy any remains of the empire and its citizens. This purge - known as the Sith Holocaust - ultimately failed, leaving the survivors to take refuge on Dromund Kaas. From here they would rebuild their empire, and not rest until they had their revenge on those who had tried to exterminate them.

The Jedi Defended a Corrupt System

Star Wars Trade Federation Separatists

As so many galaxy-wide armed conflicts do, the Clone Wars all started with the passing of a Financial Reform bill. Well, attempted passing. You see, this is the part that gets glossed over in the clearly pro-Jedi films, giving the impressions that the Separatists were simply bad guys. The truth is: the commercially powerful systems of the galaxy were only after removal of corruption in the Senate, and government deregulation in the name of capitalistic growth. Those wishes could be cast in a greedy or antidemocratic light, but they're also the desires that shaped the creation of the western world. In other words, not inherently evil. The taxation and corruption of the Senate from top to bottom pushed the larger corporations not to revolt, but introduce new financial reform to protect their interests. Before a vote could take place, the Senator representing the Commonality of trade planets was assassinated by a bribed Senate guard (apparently they weren't kidding about corruption). Those who sent the assassin got their wish, and the vote was cancelled. Understandably, this was the last straw. The Commonality broke off from the corrupt body and formed the Confederacy of Independent Systems. Political movements are usually bigger than they're made out to be their opponents. so while the films depicted the group as a table full of villainous characters, the Separatist Confederacy was made up of over eight galactic governments, dozens of Republic Senators, and spanned over 10,000 star systems. The Jedi and Republic didn't even formally recognize the group's existence, choosing instead to defend the corrupt government, and rather than address the Separatist concerns, simply wipe them out.

The Jedi Betrayed Their Own Beliefs

Star Wars Jedi Betrayal

Have a look, if you will, at the stated beliefs of the Jedi Code around the time of Episode 1 - The Phantom Menace: -Jedi are the guardians of peace in the galaxy. -Jedi use their powers to defend and protect, never to attack others. -Jedi respect all life, in any form. -Jedi serve others rather than ruling over them, for the good of the galaxy. -Jedi seek to improve themselves through knowledge and training. Of course, the Force-wielding, telekinetic, mind-controlling monks weren't always so docile. When the Jedi put an end to the New Sith Wars 1,000 years before the films, they had grown to be so militarized that their beliefs were being jeopardized. As recognition of this danger the Ruusan Reformation took place, restructuring the Republic and disbanding the Jedi's army and navy, as well as restricting their influence. This meant no longer sporting armor or military rank, and serving the Senate, not their own hierarchy. Rather than weakening the galactic government, having the Jedi to defend freedom and serve democracy ushered in the 'Golden Age of the Old Republic.' The films are set 1,000 years later - enough time for the Jedi to have shifted from realizing their religious order should only be used to defend, not lead the Republic to claiming that they knew better. George Lucas could have at least included a scene where Mace Windu or Yoda debated the idea of instantly becoming generals, betraying their code and undoing legislation that brought a millenium of peace (fun fact: Luke Skywalker later removed the line about "never attacking others").

The Jedi Led a Coup Against an Elected Leader

Star Wars Jedi Coup Despite the fact that the Sith were not inherently evil, there's no question the Jedi saw them as their enemy (even if they'd helped make them). So when Supreme Chancellor Palpatine was revealed to be Darth Sidious, believing in the quest for mastery over life that the Jedi so vehemently disagreed with, what would any peace-loving religious order do? In short, attempt to arrest or kill him. The problem here is that Chancellor Palpatine was, without question, the democratically-elected leader of the Galactic Republic. The Jedi had the right to be angry that he had kept his beliefs and religion a secret, and suspicious of what he had planned for the Republic, but…remember that bit in their Jedi Code that said they served the Republic’s government, and that they were not in charge of determining who was fit to lead and who wasn’t? Anyway you look at it, the Jedi attempted a military coup, wishing to depose the elected leader of a democracy based on a personal vendetta. They had many diplomatic methods of bringing his Sith origins to the attention of the Republic, but instead decided to act without consent. The result: the Jedi were judged by the Republic's leader to once again threaten freedom and exert control over the Senate, and had to be eliminated (poetic justice fans will note the Jedi Purge as a reversal of their genocide against the Sith). One could argue that Palpatine had manipulated democracy to settle an old score himself, but that means that he knew the Jedi wouldn't hesitate to remove the head of the Senate by force. The bottom line: marching into a Head of State's office with guns drawn after discovering his racial, religious or philosophical background is a hard pill to swallow.

Conclusion

Star Wars Jedi Villains Hopefully we've made our case for why the story being given to Star Wars audiences may not be the full one. That's not to say one side of the Jedi/Sith conflict was more in-the-right than the other, but clearly both groups were willing to get their hands dirty. Could this make a film set in the Old Republic, or any of the numerous wars between factions a chance to provide a completely new perspective? It's hard to know how those entrusted with Star Wars' future feel about playing with morality, but if they do, we've obviously got some ideas. How do you view the Jedi after reading our argument? Still see them as the upholders of what's right and moral, or are the Sith not as bad as they may have been portrayed? Leave us your thoughts in the comments. Star Wars: Episode VII is tentatively scheduled to open in theaters by 2015. - Follow Andrew on Twitter @andrew_dyce.
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  1. I’m sure that this is well-researched, but I’m suddenly very glad that I’ve avoided all of the Extended Universe.

    The elegance of the original films came from their simplicity (yes, with all their flaws, too. Ewoks. Egads), very much like a Greek myth (and, yes, I know about J. Campbell).

    All that extra backstory is wonderful fodder for fanboy/girl late-night conversation, but it really doesn’t actually have anything to do with Vader’s redemption at the end of Episode 6.

    • Too True.

    • Yet it is the EU that makes the richness of the Star Wars universe, and there are some storylines that rival (and maybe even surpass) the tragedy of Anakin Skywalker. Episodes I-VI tell the story of Vader but it’s thankfully not the only story worth telling in the whole universe.

    • 1. Why does it matter whether or not the EU has anything to do with Vader’s redemption, and how is that relevant to the post?

      2. I’m pretty sure there are plenty of books that are relevant to Vader’s redemption. Just as the other two episodes in the trilogy were relevant, so to are some of the books in the EU. There are some that have mentions of Vader or Anakin (I mention them as two different entities because they are), even appearances, and there is one that is actually about Vader.

      3. The EU is all canon and is not just for fanboys and fangirls. Much of it is also pretty good and worthy of being read, just like the books based on the Halo series. Both are highly relevant to the main series and are not to be disregarded.

  2. I love the mythology of the extended universe. My favorite sf book series is Dune and I believe the extended universe of Star Wars gives depth and ambiguity to a oversimplified story. But there is a reason Dune is hard to translate adequately to the screen and its that same reason why I think the extended universe has no place in the Star Wars movies unless it is tied with the existing movie mythology in a simple and concrete way that every moviegoer would understand.

  3. I love the mythology of the extended universe. My favorite sf book series is Dune and I believe the extended universe of Star Wars gives depth and ambiguity to a oversimplified story. But there is a reason Dune is hard to translate adequately to the screen and its that same reason why I think the extended universe has no place in the Star Wars movie

  4. The ‘Expanded Universe’ has been written by authors that don’t get Star Wars. Kevin J. Anderson is a prime example. Star Wars is Space Fantasy/Space Opera, not Science Fiction.

    If you didn’t like the Prequels or the Prequels didn’t meet your expectations, you’ll be disappointed by the rest of the Star Wars movies that are coming.

    • Try the ones by Drew Karpyshan… Karpishin… I cant remember his name, Darth Bane Trilogy!!!

  5. palpatine orchestrated a galaxy wide conflict that killed trillions of ipeople just to gain power, and was committing high treason. What’s more, the dark side does tend to drive the ones who use it

  6. This is off topic but i just want to through this our there imagine Tom Hiddleston (who has expressed interest in Star Wars, article is on Screen Rant.) and Bennedict Cumberbatch who has worked with Director J.J Abrams on Star Trek into Darkness playing the villains in the movie.

  7. The problem with the Force is that we warp it into this fight about good against evil. It’s not. Everyone is always talking about bringing balance to the Force in the movies and this is always interpreted as a balance between good and evil.
    George Lucas stylized the Jedi on Eastern Philosophy. In Monastic teaching the only real schism is between Harmony and Discord. To a monk, the Sith would be squarely on the side of Discord and the Jedi their clear opposite. Maybe this is a failing of Lucas to explain it, him not getting it or us not getting it, or the writers of the EU (dont put it past them, they killed Chewbacca with a planet.) But it’s not really the actions of the Jedi or the Sith that are inherently evil, it’s the fact that the Sith flagrantly discard their faith in the Harmony of the Force and do what they think is right.

  8. I like the thought put into this post, I really do, but some of this pro-Sith stuff is stretched a little bit too far. My main gripe is about Palpatine. You said that “it could be said that he manipulated democracy”. He didn’t just manipulate democracy, he went outside the bounds of legal conduct to achieve his goals in the system. When he couldn’t get his way through guile, he didn’t hesitate to have obstacles removed with lethal force. The Jedi, at that point, did operate within the system and were in some ways subject to it, but that doesn’t mean that they didn’t have the authority to arrest Palpatine. He was orchestrating a war against the Republic while acting as its leader, which is considered treason if I’m not wrong. Elected leader or no, he needed to be removed from office and would have been taken peacefully if not for him going batsh*t evil crazy, cutting people’s limbs off. Lol I’m done.

    • You nailed it. The article is good fun and makes interesting points, but the story as we saw it depicted is not so very grey. I actually think f the prequels as pro Jedi propaganda, or at the very least the tale to,d by the victors about their rivals dastardly deeds. The real truth? (about this fiction…) we may never know.

  9. Your #2 is all wrong. That is incorrect with the sabers. It was a technology taken from engineers. They were adapted by one person into a weapon. The first few of them required a huge back pack and were closer to flame throwers then swords. Over generations the designs evolved. And for the bit on jedi always shunning anything dark…whats Mace Windu? His style is all based upon walking the edge of dark and light, using the strength of the dark. Just saying. I realize this article is mostly speculation and personal opinion but for any who care about the ‘facts’ :-)

    • Actually the infinite empire did use forcesabers, there where also battery pack powered sabers like you say, they are called protosabers

  10. “The Jedi Led a Coup Against an Elected Leader”

    Yes and know it wasn’t his beliefs that was the problem it was the fact that he played both sides. He gained is position through fraudulent means. They didn’t go to kill him but confront him and finding out his crimes, creating a war to gain complete control over the Galaxy. Mace was sent into a rage and attacked him.

    • Actually, Mace went into his office to arrest Palpatine. Palpatine attacked first.

  11. Best article about Star Wars I have ever read.

  12. Here is what I hate: They focus primarily in this diatribe about how bad the Jedi could be but NOWHERE in there are we SEEING where the Sith are owning up to THEIR flaws. Its not about them? Well how can you make it about the Jedi and not the Sith if you want the audience reading to find it all FAIR? You can’t. You’re setting yourself up for failure. For every finger pointed at the Jedi the author should have the Sith pointing two AT THEMSELVES. o.O That is how you’ll get people hooked. Not like woe is me, I’m bad. More like yeah, well hindsight is 20/20. Irony doesn’t apply to evil because it takes itself too seriously. You never saw the Sith make one liners about letting the Wookie win at space chess or whose being called scruffy. Does The Emperor think Vader a little short to be a Sith Lord?

    • I find your lack of faith disturbing.

  13. I think you got lightsabers all wrong buddy. They came from something called “frozen blaster technology”. It is basically a frozen beam of plasma. The force sabers were a precursor but it is something that runs differently. A non force user can use a lightsaber but it is not advised. Although the lightsaber was perfected by the Sith, a design that Jedi still use.

  14. If i were supreme chancellor I would outlaw the use of the force all together.
    Nearly every major conflict in the star wars universe where billions if not trillions of people have died has had the rivalry between Jedi and sith at its core. As long as there are Jedi or sith innocent people will continue to get caught in the middle of their efforts to wipe each other out.
    Sure if Jedi and Sith didn’t exist people would probably still find some reason to destroy each other. But if the expanded universe has shown us anything it’s that planetary feuds are usually only minor compared to the galaxy wide conflicts between the light and dark sides.
    Just my opinion haha.

    • Yet the fiercest blow to our beloved galaxy far, far away came from the Yuuzhan Vong, a race of extra-galactic conquerors who couldn’t care less about the force.

    • And the Galactic Civil War, pretty much one of the most destructive conflicts the galaxy has ever known, was actually a civil dispute between the Empire and the Alliance for the Restoration of the Republic. Force users were key players, but not the main driving force of the war.

  15. While most of that is true, and I consider valid, the last point is not wholly correct. In Episode III after discovering that Palpatine was the Dark Lord that had eluded the Jedi since the events of Episode I, the Jedi went to ARREST Palpatine. They meant to arrest him on the grounds of orchestrating the war between the Republic and the Confederacy, this was due to him being the head of both sides. As such, the Jedi attempted to bring his corruption to trial before the Senate. Naturally, the Lord Sidious resisted arrest by Jedi and the Jedi fought him in self-defence. Windu was wrong when he tried to kill Sidious in his office, and I believe Skywalker was right in intervening; albeit, it cannot be ignored that after the combat that had just happened, that Anakin was naive in thinking Sidious might spare the life of the man who just tried to kill him. As such, I do not find the last point completely valid, but as a fan who has traditionally favoured the Jedi, I find this a very interesting and overall well put together argument.

    • Alexander, even if the Jedi were aware he orchestrated both sides (which they were not at the time, in the movie, they were only aware he was Sith)the fact remains that they went to arrest a lawfully elected official whose only “crime” was a difference of philosophy. This still smacks of an attempted coup, not unlike the coup that toppled the Romanov dynasty in Russia. If you are unaware of how THAT ended, I’ll tell you, the Romanov family members were all shot. Given the violence that Sith noncombatants had faced in the past, it is reasonable to surmise that Palpatine feared for his life, and struck preemptively to protect his life, never mind his position. Palpatine was a victim of the bigotry of the Jedi, although he is no saint.

      • Nexxado, I must correct you, the Jedi, at that point in the film, were aware the “The Sith Lord” was puppeteering the Confederacy, while they did not know who the Sith Lord was, they knew, through the connection between Darth Maul and the Trade Federation, and Count Dooku, a.k.a. Darth Tyrannis, leading the Confederacy. Dooku revealed his Sith nature just prior to the Battle of Geonosis. So ultimately they were justified in going to arrest Palpatine, seeing as he was effectively a war criminal. Was there some prejudice in the actions of the Jedi? Of that I have no doubt, but you cannot claim that either side was truly the victim, both parties, in this one given situation were acting selfishly.

  16. You make a good point that maybe it is oversimplified to state that the Jedi are good, so the Sith must be bad by default, and that we might need to take into account their side of the story before we start using the good/evil labels… But so much of what the Sith do is inherently evil in that they seek to dominate over every living being.

    Now, I guess this argument does a good job of pointing out that the Jedi aren’t exactly perfect either, but what I was kind of getting out of this, especially with the first slide was that, despite the fact that we may be able to related better to the Sith with how they embrace the full range of emotion rather than suppressing it, the Sith to me could be seen as a representation of how humanities instinctual behaviors in the most extreme will hold us all back to being subject to a system where only the strongest will prosper while those who start out from weak beginnings will never be given a chance. That just screams corruption and evil to me.

    Now about the last point you made about how the Jedi were being hypocritical when they attacked Palpatine, an elected official… its already been said that Palpatine may have used his powers to corrupt the masses (similar to the jedi mind trick power, but on a larger, more time consuming scale), PLUS its already been established that one of the powers for the Dark Side of the Force is to cloud the minds of others, so he hid his true identity and real intentions from the Jedi for years, so how could they ever get the hint at the idea of there being any sort of corruption in the Senate prior to his true identity being revealed?… PLUS, it was said many times that Palpatine, as Chancellor, was given more and more executive power over the Senate, so its been established that through this corruption, democracy was slowly being killed off. This trend and eventual result of a future Empire was even more obvious once his true identity was finally revealed, and the Jedi obviously saw this as enough of a threat to take him out of power by force. I don’t see it as an attack based on a personal vendetta. The entire teachings of the Sith is in conflict with the ideals of Democracy and Freedom.

    So yeah, the Jedi are definitely not perfect (especially with their over suppression of feelings and emotion, and a track record of screwing up a few times….), but they’re doing a helluva lot better of a job of maintaining peace and order than the Sith ever would, and we already know that.

  17. Wow, that would make some great cinema there. The Jei are responsible for there own plight. Cool concept.

    The Jedi where very ridged, prickly & arrogant in George Lucas’s Prequel Adventures and this concept tie’s in very well too the style and feel of much of those movies.

  18. [" Windu was wrong when he tried to kill Sidious in his office, and I believe Skywalker was right in intervening; albeit, it cannot be ignored that after the combat that had just happened, that Anakin was naive in thinking Sidious might spare the life of the man who just tried to kill him."]

    Why in the f**k aren’t you criticizing Yoda for trying to kill Sidious later in the movie? Because his character wasn’t voiced by a black actor?

    • [Because his character wasn’t voiced by a black actor?]

      Seriously? I truly hope you’re joking, but I have a feeling you aren’t. This is the single most ignorant statement I’ve read to date. Every person here is arguing the merits of the post and you decide to make a pathetic attempt and pointing out the race of the actor as a possible factor?

      And why would he criticize Yoda? Yoda tried to kill the now Emperor AFTER he just committed genocide against the Jedi by way of Order 66. I don’t think anyone can argue the merits of Yoda’s decision at that point.

      Take your racist bullspit somewhere else.

  19. ["Windu was wrong when he tried to kill Sidious in his office, and I believe Skywalker was right in intervening; albeit, it cannot be ignored that after the combat that had just happened, that Anakin was naive in thinking Sidious might spare the life of the man who just tried to kill him."]

    Why aren’t you criticizing Yoda for making the same mistake?

  20. I have to give it some more thought, but you need make a convencing case

  21. While I do enjoy some of the extended universe storylines, the simple fact remains that the ONLY thing that is canon in the Star Wars universe are the movies. The animated Clone Wars, the novels, etc all are fun to read & watch, but they in no way have any effect on the movies. J.J. Abrams doesn’t even have to use the Solo twins to movie the story forward. I would like him to, but he doesn’t HAVE to because it’s not Star Wars canon. The only consistency that he has to follow is what has been laid down in the previous 6 movies.

    • According to Wikipedia:

      The Star Wars canon consists of the current six Star Wars feature films, along with ALL OFFICIALLY LICENSED, NON-CONTRADICTING spin-off works to the same. As once defined by Lucas Licensing:

      “We have what we call Canon, which is the screenplays, novelizations, and other works that are directly tied into continuity, and then there are a lot of marginal things, like the old Marvel Comics series, that we don’t really try to work into the continuity when we’re planning new projects. Even the LucasArts interactive games have a premise, a backstory with player characters that we’re trying to tie into the overall continuity. It is sort of a godlike undertaking. We are creating this universe as we go along, but somebody has to keep his finger on everything that came before.”
      —Lucasfilm’s then-continuity editor Allan Kausch, The Secrets of Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire

      For more info, check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_canon, especially the paragraph about the “Holocron” which states the different levels of canon. Of course, the movies take precedence and if something from the movies contradicts pre-existing EU material, then said EU material will be removed from canon, but saying that only the movies are canon is plain wrong.

  22. I would have liked to finish reading this article but that damn repeating Microsoft ad blocked the last paragraph of each entry and I couldn’t get rid of it. I understand that ads pay for the site, but they shouldn’t block access to it…

    • …And this is why using an ad-blocker might be a good idea.

  23. You listed Sith as Dark Jedi, I stopped reading then.

    • And what side of the Force do you think Siths use, exactly? Not all dark Jedis are Siths but Siths are dark Jedis by definition, just like not all dogs are golden retrievers but all golden retrievers are dogs. The “dark Jedi” designation commonly refers to non-Siths for convenience because it is already implied that Siths are subjected to the dark side.

  24. Jedi already are the villains. The major villains in every Star Wars movie (with the exception of Jabba and Boba Fett) have been Jedi. (There is no difference between “Jedi” and “Sith”: they are two words for the same thing: mind-controlling, telekinetic religious zealots.)

  25. the sith are portrayed as evil tyrants but they were really jedi that embraced all types of power. the jedi talked of peace yet preached war.

  26. I have always rooted for the Sith and the dark side, mostly because I share the same views of many of the Sith characters. For example, I am a supporter of fascism, extremism, totalitarianism, and amorality and I find the concept of a galaxy-spanning galactic empire a most compelling vision. Such a thing may be impossible now, but perhaps ten thousand years from now, such a thing may very well be a reality.

    • You can’t advocate for both fascism and amorality. Fascists are highly moral people in their own twisted way. They condemn Semites or homosexuals precisely because they deem them amoral. Well, it’s a bit more complex than that but you get the idea.

  27. ” We tend to agree with the belief that the Sith were evil-doers and extremists, but it might be worthwhile to actually look at what drove them to that point…”

    They did…it was postulated in episodes 1-3, and let me tell you, it was forgettable.

  28. did it even need this many reasons???

    plenty of sith have started out as jedi, plenty of jedi have gotten so angry theyve almost gone to the darkside

    one name

    darth vader…..

    didnt need ten

  29. Why is see the Jedi not as the “good” Cult

    I’m part of the Sith Order and would like to share my view on why the Jedi is the bad cult in the Starwars movies.

    Where to start…

    Some Basic ideas:
    1)The universe is made up of thousands of Planets that are represented in the Senate. The republic has grown to a point where it is to big to be governed.
    Queen Amidala “It is clear to me now that the Republic no longer functions.” “The Phantom Menace,”
    Palpatine”The Republic is not what it once was. The Senate is full of greedy, squabbling delegates. There is no interest in the common good.” At one point he laments that “the bureaucrats are in charge now.”
    2) The senate moves slowly in its decision making. The Senate can only call for an Investigation when the Trade Federation invades Naboo.
    3) The republic has no armed forces and thus requires the “Protection” of the Jedi for peace and order. This change with the clone army.

    Republic:
    1) The Jedi Order did not trust the Senate even before they found out that the Chancellor is Darth Lord of Sith. (Sith Order has the Rule of 2. Won’t go into details).
    2)The Jedi then proceed to overthrow a Democratically elected leader-sounds like a coup.
    3)Master Mace Windu takes it upon himself to kill Palpatine (Chancellor) without standing trial in the Courts of the Republic- why is Master Mace Windu above the law?

    Confederate Independent States
    1) The CIS has full legal capacity to break away under international law. The CIS’s Head of State is Count Dooku. Count Dooku is the Apprentice of Lord Sidious.

    Lord Sidious
    1) Palpatine tells Mass Amedda to prepare his ship for immediate take-off after P sense that Lord Vader is in danger.
    2) Episode 3. Obi-wan will not allow Skywalker to help the clones when they approach General Grievous’ ship.

    Death Star
    1) Princess Leia lied when she was asked about her mission, she said she was on a diplomatic mission, while she was actually getting stolen plans from the Death Star to the Rebel base. Darth Vader knows
    what the senate plans through his master Palpatine. Why would she tell the truth when Vader confronts her. She lies again when asked about the Alliance headquarters.
    2)Planet Alderaan was destroyed. The first Deathstar was also destroyed without taking into consideration the people on board- it was a miniature planet.(Most people forget).

    Rank
    1)Darth Vader employ bounty hunters to track down Han Solo. Vader calls Boba Fett no by his name, but a “Bounty Hunter”. When Fett captures Solo he calls him “Captain Solow”. There was order in the
    Empire.

    Aunt Beru & Uncle Owen
    Episode IV- Imperial Storm troopers kill Luke’s Aunt and Uncle. It may seem brutal at first, but less so when viewed in context. They were part of the rebellion harboring two fugitive droids and luke-traitors.

    Fall of the Empire
    1)The Emperor has ultimate power and was in control. He had authority over the planets. One would wonder what would happen after the fall of an empire. Will people respect those in power or will the follow
    their own ideas. (A good way of portraying it is with the series “Legend of the Seeker”, things get worst when the Dictator falls in the series) The fall of the empire turns the universe into a power struggle where
    regional leaders don’t answer to anyone.

    Jedi Order
    1) The people are tested when they are born for the midi-chlorians which gives them the ability to use the force. This is done without their consent- Obi-Wan Kenobi with Anakin.
    2)What would happen if a parent refuses to give their children to the Jedi for training?
    3) The Kids are taken to the Jedi Temple where they are subjected to Propaganda without having a childhood. Anakin was lucky in these regard-own ideas of life.
    4)The Jedi Members are so full of them self where the Librarian says that if it is not in the Archives, then it doesn’t exist- boy was she wrong. She didn’t even have the audacity to find out about Kamino.
    5) The Jedi is autonomous; subjected to the Senate; or are the above the Senate?
    6) The Jedi also asked Anakin to spy on palpatine. (Treason?)

    Jedi – Sith Chain of Command
    1)The Jedi is run by a council where it looks like Master Yoda has more say than anybody else. Off topic; why could Master Yoda not even sense the presence of Darth Sidious?
    2) The Sith has one man in charge and what he says goes- Darth Sidious-Palpatine-The Chancellor.
    3)The “Hero’s” (Jedi) always deviates from the plans- a classic in starwars-to do things.
    4) Sith are given free rein to do as they see fit.
    Palpatine to Vader -”Do what must be done Lord Vader”

    Sith
    1)One cannot say a person is Sith merely for using the “Darkside”. The Sith Order is an establishment controlled by Dark Lord of the Sith. Thus you do get people that kill others while using the “Darkside”.
    (Remeber that) The Sith has a code that must be followed. Therefore, you are not Sith for merely using the “Darkside”.
    2) Sith use their passion (Anakin said this in Episode 3) to access the force. Anger is an emotion used out of passion not as the source.

    Anakin Skywalker
    1)Darth Sidious didn’t lie to Anakin about saving the life of his wife. He said:”To cheat death is a power only one has achieved, but if we work together, I know we can discover the secret.”.Darth Sidious’s
    Master Unlocked the secrets of life, the method was however lost during the years.
    2) Anakin wanted more from the Jedi. They pushed him away by not “inviting” him to the meetings- he felt excluded. Anakin wanted more- and Sith was ready to give it to him.
    3) General Grieves (My Favourite) asked Sidious about Count Dooku when Dooku died. Sidious didn’t say that he can’t know, he explained to him what was going on- not, it’s above your clearance; Rebel
    leader to Han Solo.

    Good vs Evil
    1) Good and Evil is a perseption. Palpatine said this. It can be argued any way. Anakin “From my point of view the Jedi are Evil”.
    2) People can change from the “Darkside” to the “Light”. Darth Reaven and Later Vader turned. Most of the Sith Order feels more fullfilled and would in that regard follow the emperor in what ever he says.
    3)The Sith Allows for Jedi Knights to fullfill their thirst for knowledge and passion. Count Dooku.

    Obi-Wan Kenobi
    (This is a “special” character)
    A)His most egregious error is that, in AOTC, Dooku captures him and does the bad guy monologue about there being a Sith Lord in a position of power on the Galactic Senate and he chooses not to believe
    him. What’s more, he doesn’t even investigate this claim. If he were to do just a little digging.
    1)Obi-Wan failed to free the slaves on Tatooine; he knew they were there. He didn’t even mention it to any Jedi Member. The slaves are still there waiting for their liberators.
    2)Obi-wan could have saved the Galaxy by killing Anakin on the planet Mustafar. He only cuts off Anakin’s Limbs and walks away.(Obi-Wan knew Anakin was a Sith).
    3)Obi-Wan Kenobi can Take down General Grievous (4 Lightsabers), but not Count Dooku (1 Lightsaber). Dooku had the plans to the Death Star.
    4)Another thing Obi-Wan never got around to bringing up was the whole, “Darth Vader is your dad” thing. Because that clearly wouldn’t have been relevant for Luke to know. At all. However, Kenobi was
    very happy to discuss how evil Darth Vader was, telling Luke that Vader “betrayed and murdered your father” and that he was “more machine now than man. Twisted and evil.” (Oh, really? And how did
    THAT happen exactly?). Obi-wan lies to Luke when Luke asks about his father.
    5)Anakin was “too old” to begin Jedi Training in Phantom Menace.Obi-wan waited until Luke was 19 years old before he started Luke’s Jedi Training. So a few days will suffice to take down Darth Vader.
    Luke can also not stop Han from being encased in Carbonate or his gang eaten by the Sarlacc on Tatooine.
    6)Qui-Gon died because Obi-Wan is either stupid, lazy or both. During the climactic lightsaber duel in The Phantom Menace, Darth Maul knocks Kenobi down to a lower platform. Obi-Wan decides to catch
    up not by running at super speed like he did on the Trade Federation ship at the beginning of the film, nor even by sprinting.He jogs.He literally just jogs casually, then seems incredibly surprised when he
    doesn’t make it in time to help. Did he somehow not remember that he had the ability to run really fast, or was he just taking a breather while Qui-Gon fought the most dangerous person the Jedi have seen in a
    thousand years? IT MAKES NO SENSE.
    (Obtained from a third source)

    Here is a few Quotes that gives insight into the Sith Order
    ——————————————————–
    “To be a Sith is to taste freedom and to know victory.”
    -Yuthura Ban.
    ——————————————————
    Those who use the dark side are also bound to serve it. To understand this is to understand the underlying philosophy of the Sith.
    -Darth Revan
    ———————————————————
    “If you seek to aid everyone that suffers in the galaxy, you will only weaken yourself … and weaken them. It is the internal struggles, when fought and won on their own, that yield the strongest rewards… If
    you care for others, then dispense with pity and sacrifice and recognize the value in letting them fight their own battles.”
    -Darth Traya
    ——————————————————-

    “Once more, the Sith will rule the galaxy…and we shall have peace.”
    -Darth Sidious, to Darth Vader

    ———————————————————-
    “Those who ask for mercy are too weak to deserve it.”
    -Darth Bane
    ———————————————————
    Sith saw the Force as a means to an end while the Jedi saw it as an end in itself.
    -Darth Sidious
    ———————————————————-
    “Equality is a lie…A myth to appease the masses. Simply look around and you will see the lie for what it is! There are those with power, those with the strength and will to lead. And there are those meant to
    follow—those incapable of anything but servitude.”
    - Darth Bane
    ———————————————————
    “You deserve only what you are strong enough to take.”
    ——————————————————–

    “Anakin, if one is to understand the great mystery, one must study all its aspects, not just the dogmatic, narrow view of the Jedi. If you wish to become a complete and wise leader, you must embrace a larger
    view of the Force. Be careful of the Jedi, Anakin. Only through me can you achieve a power greater than any Jedi. Learn to know the dark side of the Force, and you will be able to save your wife from
    certain death.”
    -Darth Sidious to Anakin Skywalker
    ————————————————————
    “You want this, don’t you? The hate is swelling in you now. Take your Jedi weapon. Use it. I am unarmed. Strike me down with it! Give into your anger! With each passing moment, you make yourself more
    my servant.”
    -Darth Sideous
    ———————————————————–
    “Sometimes, things must be broken in order to be rebuilt. As I have bent the Force to my will, so I will bend the galaxy and it will know order. My true work is about to begin.”
    “The Galaxy must experience the pain of death and rapture of rebirth as I have. I will bring chaos. It is time for war.”
    -Darth Krayt
    ————————————————————

    “It has been said that anyone who knows the ways of the Force can set her- or himself up as a King on any world where only she or he knows the ways of the Force. Any Jedi could do this. But the Jedi, fools
    that they are, adhere to a religion in which the Force is used only in the service of others. How shortsighted of them. Is that not why they lost the galaxy to the dark side?”
    -Palpatine
    ———————————————————-

    “Darkness is a friend, an ally. Darkness allows us to understand others, to see what they value when they believe no one else is looking. It allows us to be honest with ourselves, to express those values that we
    would disavow in the light. The light blinds us. It is only in the dark that we see clearly, and there is a great dark hidden among these worlds.”
    -Rivan
    ——————————————————-

    These are my own ideas. I do not wish to insult anybody.
    I’m only asking people to open their minds to the possibility.
    some of the topics in this piece might have been discussed.
    Take from this; those things you have not yet thought about.
    This was typed in fury; please forgive the grammar and other mistakes :)

    Darth Ray

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