6 Reasons Why Jedi Could Be Villains In a ‘Star Wars’ Movie

Published 1 year ago by This is a list post.

Star Wars Jedi Villains There's no mistaking it: Star Wars is back and ready to return to the heights it once enjoyed. With J.J. Abrams at the helm of Star Wars: Episode VII, fans are looking forward to new films carrying on the legacy of the Rebellion's heroes. But that's not the only direction to take. Now that confirmed standalone movies are also in the plans alongside major Episodes, the characters and stories that can be explored are far more numerous. We've already listed the Star Wars spin-offs we'd like to see, but the more we think about it, permanently relegating the Sith or 'Dark Jedi' to the role of villain seems to be making one massive assumption. At this point, the whole 'Light Side good, Dark Side bad' idea is common knowledge; but that's only according to the Jedi. History, as we know, is written by the victor. We tend to agree with the belief that the Sith were evil-doers and extremists, but it might be worthwhile to actually look at what drove them to that point, and see if a story can't be told placing the Jedi in the role of antagonists. Allow us to outline 6 Reasons Jedi Could Be Villains In a Star Wars Movie.

The Sith Weren't Always Bad

Star Wars Sith Origins

What should be made clear off the bat is that the Sith didn't just show up like boogeymen one day and start terrorizing the innocent. They were Jedi to begin with - only more radical in their views of the galaxy and what their gifts should be used for. The first Jedi Exiles - the group that would one day found the Sith - were simply one side of a civil dispute within the Jedi Order, known as the Second Great Schism. Whatever extremes each side pushed the other toward, it should be known that at no point did the Sith huddle around a fire and decide to crush all life in the galaxy; they were conquerors in search of mastery over life itself, not genocidal maniacs. They even developed their own Sith Code, opposing that preached by Jedi. Rather than speaking of existence as it should be, they focused on the way it was. The Code reads: -Peace is a lie, there is only passion. -Through passion, I gain strength. -Through strength, I gain power. -Through power, I gain victory. -Through victory, my chains are broken. -The Force shall free me. While the Jedi taught their followers that love, anger or passion were forbidden, the Sith embraced the full range of human emotion; passion is what makes people powerful, and free. The original Star Wars movies clearly show that the Skywalkers don't share the belief that love is to be avoided, and it's arguable that most of humanity would relate more to the Sith's view of passion as a good thing. The first Jedi Exiles' aims to revive dead worlds may not have been something their brethren believed in, and resulted in them being cast out, but it wasn't spawned by malice.

The Jedi Were Hypocrites

Star Wars Rakata Forcesabers Fascist governments throughout history have proven that the denial of....unpopular progress on grounds that it challenges existing beliefs of what's "right" is one of mankind's worst habits: Galileo, for instance, was called a heretic for claiming the Sun, not the Earth, was the center of the universe. It's no secret that the Jedi oppose anything - anything - to do with the Dark Side, since nothing good ever comes from it. What is less known is that before the Galactic Republic, the galaxy was largely ruled by the Rakata race's 10,000 year Infinite Empire. Like many others, this empire was built on cutting-edge technology (like the first widely-used hyperdrives). And it was all thanks to the Dark Side. Once the Rakata empire collapsed 25,000 years prior to the films, the technology was up for grabs, with the Corellians among the first to circumvent the Dark Side components of Rakata warp drives and sell the technology wholesale. The result was helpful, so no one batted an eyelash. Transportation's one thing, but the trademark of the Jedi Order - the lightsaber - is one that could only be crafted by those in tune with the light side of the Force, right? Right. The Rakata called their version 'Forcesabers,' using the Force to channel dark energy into a solid blade. The Jedi, as they did elsewhere, saw the potential made possible through 'ways of the Dark Side,' and adapted it for their own aims. Sure the technology was used by the Rakata for conquering and domination, but if every advancement that aided warfare was seen as inherently evil, the world would be a very different place. Maybe the Jedi actually meant that 'nothing good comes from the Dark Side... anymore.'

The Jedi Helped Commit Genocide

Star Wars Jedi Sith Great Schism

If it's possible to bring the morality of the Jedi into question, it's in the way they treat their enemies. After the First Great Schism came to an end, and the last twelve 'Dark Jedi' surrendered, public demand for their execution ran high. Ever the merciful diplomats, the Jedi chose to spare the lives of their fallen brethren and their followers. They then proceeded to strip their former allies of their weapons and armor, boarded them onto unarmed transport ships, and sent them into Unknown Space. It's hard to say what the Jedi intended to happen to the Exiles, but when the helpless prisoners found the race of red-skinned Sith on the planet Korriban, they did what Jedi do: shared their beliefs and technology, and laid the foundations of a new empire. Old feuds die hard, so once the Sith had emerged as a suitable army for their Dark Jedi leaders - now Sith Lords - the unbelievably named Great Hyperspace War began. The Sith ultimately succumbed to infighting, and the Republic and Jedi were victorious. Clearly, their actions 1,900 years earlier hadn't worked: the Dark Jedi had survived, and now ruled over a previously-unknown race of Force-sensitive humanoids. Republic Chancellor Pultimo looked upon an enemy that no longer posed a threat, and ordered the Jedi and Republic forces to invade Sith Space and destroy any remains of the empire and its citizens. This purge - known as the Sith Holocaust - ultimately failed, leaving the survivors to take refuge on Dromund Kaas. From here they would rebuild their empire, and not rest until they had their revenge on those who had tried to exterminate them.

The Jedi Defended a Corrupt System

Star Wars Trade Federation Separatists

As so many galaxy-wide armed conflicts do, the Clone Wars all started with the passing of a Financial Reform bill. Well, attempted passing. You see, this is the part that gets glossed over in the clearly pro-Jedi films, giving the impressions that the Separatists were simply bad guys. The truth is: the commercially powerful systems of the galaxy were only after removal of corruption in the Senate, and government deregulation in the name of capitalistic growth. Those wishes could be cast in a greedy or antidemocratic light, but they're also the desires that shaped the creation of the western world. In other words, not inherently evil. The taxation and corruption of the Senate from top to bottom pushed the larger corporations not to revolt, but introduce new financial reform to protect their interests. Before a vote could take place, the Senator representing the Commonality of trade planets was assassinated by a bribed Senate guard (apparently they weren't kidding about corruption). Those who sent the assassin got their wish, and the vote was cancelled. Understandably, this was the last straw. The Commonality broke off from the corrupt body and formed the Confederacy of Independent Systems. Political movements are usually bigger than they're made out to be their opponents. so while the films depicted the group as a table full of villainous characters, the Separatist Confederacy was made up of over eight galactic governments, dozens of Republic Senators, and spanned over 10,000 star systems. The Jedi and Republic didn't even formally recognize the group's existence, choosing instead to defend the corrupt government, and rather than address the Separatist concerns, simply wipe them out.

The Jedi Betrayed Their Own Beliefs

Star Wars Jedi Betrayal

Have a look, if you will, at the stated beliefs of the Jedi Code around the time of Episode 1 - The Phantom Menace: -Jedi are the guardians of peace in the galaxy. -Jedi use their powers to defend and protect, never to attack others. -Jedi respect all life, in any form. -Jedi serve others rather than ruling over them, for the good of the galaxy. -Jedi seek to improve themselves through knowledge and training. Of course, the Force-wielding, telekinetic, mind-controlling monks weren't always so docile. When the Jedi put an end to the New Sith Wars 1,000 years before the films, they had grown to be so militarized that their beliefs were being jeopardized. As recognition of this danger the Ruusan Reformation took place, restructuring the Republic and disbanding the Jedi's army and navy, as well as restricting their influence. This meant no longer sporting armor or military rank, and serving the Senate, not their own hierarchy. Rather than weakening the galactic government, having the Jedi to defend freedom and serve democracy ushered in the 'Golden Age of the Old Republic.' The films are set 1,000 years later - enough time for the Jedi to have shifted from realizing their religious order should only be used to defend, not lead the Republic to claiming that they knew better. George Lucas could have at least included a scene where Mace Windu or Yoda debated the idea of instantly becoming generals, betraying their code and undoing legislation that brought a millenium of peace (fun fact: Luke Skywalker later removed the line about "never attacking others").

The Jedi Led a Coup Against an Elected Leader

Star Wars Jedi Coup Despite the fact that the Sith were not inherently evil, there's no question the Jedi saw them as their enemy (even if they'd helped make them). So when Supreme Chancellor Palpatine was revealed to be Darth Sidious, believing in the quest for mastery over life that the Jedi so vehemently disagreed with, what would any peace-loving religious order do? In short, attempt to arrest or kill him. The problem here is that Chancellor Palpatine was, without question, the democratically-elected leader of the Galactic Republic. The Jedi had the right to be angry that he had kept his beliefs and religion a secret, and suspicious of what he had planned for the Republic, but…remember that bit in their Jedi Code that said they served the Republic’s government, and that they were not in charge of determining who was fit to lead and who wasn’t? Anyway you look at it, the Jedi attempted a military coup, wishing to depose the elected leader of a democracy based on a personal vendetta. They had many diplomatic methods of bringing his Sith origins to the attention of the Republic, but instead decided to act without consent. The result: the Jedi were judged by the Republic's leader to once again threaten freedom and exert control over the Senate, and had to be eliminated (poetic justice fans will note the Jedi Purge as a reversal of their genocide against the Sith). One could argue that Palpatine had manipulated democracy to settle an old score himself, but that means that he knew the Jedi wouldn't hesitate to remove the head of the Senate by force. The bottom line: marching into a Head of State's office with guns drawn after discovering his racial, religious or philosophical background is a hard pill to swallow.

Conclusion

Star Wars Jedi Villains Hopefully we've made our case for why the story being given to Star Wars audiences may not be the full one. That's not to say one side of the Jedi/Sith conflict was more in-the-right than the other, but clearly both groups were willing to get their hands dirty. Could this make a film set in the Old Republic, or any of the numerous wars between factions a chance to provide a completely new perspective? It's hard to know how those entrusted with Star Wars' future feel about playing with morality, but if they do, we've obviously got some ideas. How do you view the Jedi after reading our argument? Still see them as the upholders of what's right and moral, or are the Sith not as bad as they may have been portrayed? Leave us your thoughts in the comments. Star Wars: Episode VII is tentatively scheduled to open in theaters by 2015. - Follow Andrew on Twitter @andrew_dyce.
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  1. I agree with most of these points save 6: Palpatine himself had declared ‘Darth Sidious’ an enemy of the Republic and so the Jedi were acting within the remit (and the interests of the Republic) by moving against him once his identity was revealed.

    Also, as his appointment to the position was effectively rigged and manipulated, it could be argued that the position was not democratically selected, and so he was not technically Chancellor; this would allow for the Jedi to move against him…

    • I understand where you’re coming from, but I fear that a look behind the scenes at any major leaders’ ascent to power would also have a few…’questionable’ maneuvers as well. I like your logic on #6 though.

  2. Um no. That would confuse the audience. You can have Jedi turn to the dark side and even a Sith turn the Jedi if you want something new but don’t mess with the line that has already been drawn with over 35 years of history.

    • I wholeheartedly disagree, tython. As a general rule, those that love Sci-Fi and Political thrillers love them for their layered plots and twists and turns. “Star Trek” fans ate up the new time line twist for the reboot, and “Star Wars” fans have kept alive a huge universe (see what I did there?) of movies, books, and comics that gave way to every plot line mentioned above. Adding in a Sith Movie that is negative to the beloved Jedi is golden and will add serious spice and debate among the Star Wars universe.

      I love this idea….

      • Yup, one of the best Star Trek movies was The Undiscovered Country, which turned Klingons from villains into allies, or at least into a neutral faction with many different viewpoints rather than a singleminded mass of people. Of course Klingons were already established as allies by Worf being part of the crew on The Next Generation before the movie came out, but still…

        • I’m with you guys. In my mind, setting the Jedi up as perfect, and Anakin as evil from the start was a huge mistake. Generally, heroes should actually be heroic if their fall is supposed to mean anything.

          If Episode 3 had featured the Jedi doing something morally questionable, and Anakin losing his faith in them, then his shift to the dark side and anger against them would be justified. As it stands, he was just no good from the start, and therefore him killing the Emperor doesn’t really make sense in the end.

          • Not disagreeing with you, but the Jedi DID do something morally questionable in Ep. 3. They asked Anakin to spy on Palpatine.

            • My point is generally the jedi are good and Sith are evil. That can’t change. Disagree if you want but I bet Lucas would agree with me. Now obviously Disney can do whatever it wants but does anyone honestly believe the same people who brought you Mickey Mouse would turn the Jedi evil? A little common sense people!

              I would like to see something different though. We saw a good Jedi turn evil in Anakin/Vader, I’d like to see a Sith turn to the light maybe.

              • Well, they’re the same people who brought us Kill Bill Vol.1 & 2, so….

  3. Regarding the last point, I wouldn’t spend so much time on trying to understand what was happening in Episode 3, nothing made any sense. You might not have noticed, but your brain did.

    • @ Bluesnail

      What didn’t make sense to you?

      • Made perfect sense to me; then again, I was paying attention at the time.

  4. I’ve never viewed the Jedi or Sith as being good or evil. Both groups are sort of morally gray. They’ve both done some questionable things, but I agree with tyhon34. The Jedi have been portrayed as the heroes in the films. It would be confusing. You could throw in some Dark Jedi but don’t make the whole order be villains.

    • Confusing for who? Most Star Wars fans are of an age now where they can understand the complicated moral things that these storylines have drawn. And if they aren’t, as they get older they’ll figure it out. Just because a few kids will be confused doesn’t mean we have to lose the chance of having a great, moral Star Wars film that turns everything on it’s head.

      • I’m still confused about how there can be “wars” in space considering its vastness and the ability of these folks to warp anywhere instantly. If you don’t like the Empire, just warp, warp away and start your own life on a new planet. Unless we’re saying that the Empire is everywhere and all of the habitable planets have been inhabited, the whole premise still seems funny.

        Or is this far away galaxy supposed to be really small? The Galactic Senate really doesn’t seem any larger than the U.S. Congress, number-wise. There are 535 members of Congress; looked to be about as many seats (or pods) in the Galactic Senate.

        • You are right there is a vastness in the Star Wars galaxy. However even this galaxy has its limits. Once you go into the unknown zone on the Star Wars map there is no telling what will happen and maybe that will be explained in Star Wars 7. If they decided to play it smart and stay within the known bit of the galaxy then they only have a few select planets to hide on. Even then the Empire could find their settlement easily.

          I am sure that there are more than just 535 seats (pods) but assuming you are right then they stand for 535 different planets. By the way there are Star Wars maps online if you Google them and there are not that many planets in the Star Wars galaxy. Besides the Star Wars galaxy doesn’t have the ability to “warp” like you mentioned. Star Trek does have the ability you speak of but even they can be caught by other ships.

          • Good call on the planet maps. One map suggests the galaxy is about 100,000 light years across, and this is the same for our Milky Way. In other words, it’s huge. The same map says there are about 1 million inhabited planets in Skywalker’s galaxy. But of course the films and novels only show us about 100 such planets, and they’re spread all across the galaxy. I just don’t see how any empire could control just a large amount of people, but I guess it is possible.

            As to my earlier comment that rebels could easily find some corner of the galaxy to avoid the Empire, I suppose that’s exactly what they tried to do on Hoth, and it worked for a while but the Empire has tons of ships (and probes) and is probably constantly scanning the universe, just like how Google constantly crawls the interwebs.

            And yeah, I knew I shouldn’t use the word “warp” but I couldn’t think of the phrase “make the jump to hyperspace.” Ha ha.

            • “I just don’t see how any empire could control just a large amount of people.”

              If you’ll recall, by the time of SWIII, the not yet empire had a near infinite supply of clone soldiers. When one cuts off the “head” of their opponents, as Palpatine did by sending Anakin to assassinate all the Separatist leaders, things tend to go into chaos. A chaotic unorganized group is a lot easier to militarily subjugate with an infinite supply of soldiers than an organized group (hence the original Trilogy).

              We here on Earth simply cannot conceive of an infinite supply of troops because we are tethered by far more limited resources, expenditures, and, most importantly, a limited amount of able bodies to put on the ground. If ever there were a country on this planet that could perfect a genetic cloning process that can give them as many soldiers as they need when they need them, you can bet the rest of us would be freaking out.

              With this now large military force, by the time of the OT, Palpatine had disbanded what was left of the Senate and left militaristic control of each territory to the Moffs and Grand Moffs that patrolled them. To your point, however, keep in mind that this “control” didn’t last long at all… it only lasted about 4 or so years after Ep IV.

      • To the younger audience or people who haven’t seen any of the other films (there are people out there like that, sadly). To fans who have only seen the films and haven’t ventured into the expanded universe. If they did make Jedi the villains in a film they’d at least have to explain why. I for one would like to see the Jedi be knocked off their pedestal.

        • Completely agree. I think it wouldn’t take much exploration of these points to at least have an audience thinking that one of their opponents, if not portrayed as pure evil, may have an argument against them. Nobody’s perfect, after all.

  5. The Sith are evil because they use the Force for selfish reasons. The Jedi (who also fail sometimes) are trying to use the Force selflessly. This is what divides the Force users from either good or evil.

    • So looking out for yourself is evil, now?

      • @ Jasca_Ducato

        To an extant yes it is. The Jedi’s view is simple but difficult to perform. One way to put it is like this “Who are we to value are lives above others?” See what I mean. The Sith is more like this “What can I do to make myself more powerful even if it costs the lives of others.”

        Technically going to sleep and expecting to wake up the next morning is selfish. Seeing as how there are children in the world dying everyday and yet we as selfish human beings expect that we are so important that we “have” to wake up the next day.

        I never said protecting yourself or providing for yourself was evil. I simply said sacrificing other people for the cost of your own well being is selfish. Expecting things that you don’t necessarily deserve are selfish as well.

        • Nice generalizations.

          • Thanks.

            • So was Anakin evil for wanting to save Padme? Would wanting to prevent your loved ones be selfish? Your own race? Planet? People?

              I know where you’re coming from, but that is one slippery slope. Fertile ground for moral grey areas, at least :)

              • @ Andrew Dyce

                You have an interesting question, a question I have actually asked myself. I have an answer but it may lead to more questions.

                It all really depends on whether or not he was saving Padme for selfish reasons. I believe he wanted her for his own selfishness and although we all love someone (most likely) we must face the facts that all of us are at one point going to die.

                If you were saving someone you love or your race, planet or people then you may be saving them for selfish reasons. It all depends on whether or not you are saving them for your benefit or theirs.

                Are you saving the person you love because “I can’t live without her?” like Anakin or are you saving them because of genuine concern even if you don’t love them? Anakin wasn’t concerned about her otherwise he wouldn’t have choked her on Mustaffar, he was only concerned with his own desires.

                • True, I think regardless of how they conveyed it to begin with (I’m thinking fear of losing her, since he never seemed like a content or fulfilled person) his motivation ended up being completely lost in his anger.

                  I think everything we’re saying goes to show that what motivated him, and led to his shift to the dark side wasn’t explained or hinted at enough in the films.

                  Even worse: nobody ever really calls him on it (the back and forth between he and Obi-Wan is painfully shallow: “You are wrong!” “From my point of view, the Jedi are wrong!”)

                  • I wish people would realize that EVERY act committed by a self-aware being is, at least to some degree, motivated by selfishness. It may be 99% for the sake of others, but there’s still 1% self-interest. A person gives to charity because they want to help others, but also because THEY WANT to help others, if that makes sense.

        • You really jumped the shark with the “Technically going to sleep and expecting to wake up the next morning is selfish. Seeing as how there are children in the world dying everyday and yet we as selfish human beings expect that we are so important that we “have” to wake up the next day.”

          Thats a load of crap, and the wrong way to prove a point. I don’t go to sleep because I feel like I am so important and must wake up the next day. I go to sleep because I am tired, need rest, and have to work so I can have money and not starve or go homeless, or mooch off others….Like most people. Now, what is selfish is me saying I don’t give a damn about children in the world dying, or care for others in general. I am a surviver and think only for myself :)

    • The author of this article did a good job not mentioning the plotting and scheming of the Sith. They did an excellent job of painting the Sith as good. I have read many extended universe books and the Sith always used manipulation to get their money and power. The whole Sith motto from early in this article was referring to breaking away from government, and natural rules, and not freeing themselves to help others. They only broke the chains to help themselves and themselves only. They also plotted to overthrow the Jedi, just because they did not believe in their methods and as a form of revenge for once being purged. Darth Bane surely was not good any any form, neither was Sidious’s master Darth Plagueis. The fact is, depends on when they place new these movies, the Jedi could be the antagonists. Sidious was pure evil himself. Any movie After order 66 and before Vader defeated Sidious the Jedi are antagonists to the current government. Luke’s son eventually turns the people against the Jedi again in the future, and Luke and the order go into hiding. It is likely Disney will want to put some distance between episode 6 and 7 so that they do not have to keep the older characters tied to the movie’s forever. The extended universe could complicate a new movie series considering neither Luke or Leia will be played by in shape cast members. I look forward to a new episode no mater how close they follow the Star Wars Nerds idea of what the next movie should be.

      • Excellent post that basically takes a dump on Andrew’s post. Plagueis killed and manipulated whomever he needed to further his goals. He was picked up by a ship early in the book and eventually killed all of the occupants and stole the robot.

        • The point of this article was to make a case for why the Jedi could be viewed as villains, not that the Sith were innocent, altruistic, or perfectly good. The argument is based on the biases of the Jedi determining how good or bad the Sith are, without any effort to understand how they got that way.

          Neither side has to be perfect to have some differing perspectives. To the Sith, they hated the Jedi for trying to eradicate them. What they do with that hate is open for moral discussion, but it shouldn’t just give the Jedi a free pass on evil things they did because they act just *most* of the time.

          • Yes I agree with this argument. One’s intent could be corrupted by sheer execution. Yes it is established that the Jedi Knights are inherently good and always against the Sith Lords who are inherently evil. But that is not to say this is an absolute distinction. Episode III roll-up had a curious quote that comes to mind: “There are heroes on both sides. Evil is everywhere.”

            This is telling at the spectrum of which the Force is executed and state of morality.

          • Perhaps some of the early Jedi, ones who eradicated most of the Sith way back then, could be seen as villains. I think that’s even a stretch. But, after that, it’s clear that the Jedi aren’t the villains and the Sith, especially from Bane onward, are the villains. they were interested in gaining power and killing/manipulating anyone who got in their way of taking over. the jedi, on the other hand, COULD HAVE used their power to take over control of the republic, but the jedi chose not to do so.

            • They chose not to do so?

              I think you missed the part where they staged a coup against Palpatine.

              • 1) that was warranted since Palpatine was a Sith. Did you object to German plots to overthrow Hitler??

                2) I am still right. Even if they were successful, the Jedi would not have actually ruled the government. after disposing of palpatine, which was certainly justifiable, they would have restored an actual republic. it’s not as if mace windu or obi wan was going to be named the new chancellor and run the government. that’s what I meant.

              • i think you missed the part where palpatine was a sith lord who staged a war to gain power and rule the galaxy.

      • How does Luke’s son (Ben Skywalker) turn peopple away from the jedi?

  6. Johnny Depp could do a Sith

    • @ Kratos

      Johnny Depp always struck me as more of a crazy, drunken and trigger happy pilot but maybe that because of the Pirates of the Caribbean? I would like to see him in a Star Wars film even if it isn’t a huge role.

  7. Screw all that. Bring back the Mandalorians!!!

    • I’d rather not screw all that, but I’m with you on the Mandalorians. Especially since they could care less who’s in charge of the Republic/Empire/Whatever.

      • I’d rather screw Jarael. And Padme. Preferably in a threesome.

  8. Your point of view is too absolute to disregard what a gray area the Rise of the Empire era concerned. The Jedi lost their way due to the machinations of a powerful Sith, who influenced his way between both worlds of church and state. The Jedi were simply desperate to restore order, but fighting a losing war whose sides were themselves being manipulated.

    What should happen in the new movies is to have the New Republic see the Jedi as too powerful an enclave to mix with governmental matters. Despite the efforts of the Last Jedi (Luke) to restore the Republic, too many remember what Sidious allowed them to remember (the Empire didn’t just end the Jedi Order, but rewrote history to its benefit – only winners can write history). Armed with these fallacies, the New Republic leadership could view the Jedi as the instigators of the Clone Wars (due to the actions of an expelled Jedi Master), and conclude that the Sith are just an evil, unpredictable offshoot of Jedi. Such elements could introduce enough fear to justify the banishment of the Jedi from galactic concerns, placing them once again as outcasts…

    … soon after, an interstellar threat could take advantage of this rift…

    • Definitely a good premise, and a chance to write something new into the universe (GASP).

      Not trying to offer an absolute argument, just show the other side. In the process, I think it opens the entire thing up into one big grey area.

  9. I would love to see a movie about the origin of the Sith. I find that aspect of the Star Wars universe more interesting than a continuation of the George Lucas trilogies. Hopefully in the new movies they will delve into the particulars of how the Sith came to be via flashbacks etc.

    • @ Brina Earl

      I think flash backs would be a little weird because flash backs didn’t really occur in the previous Star Wars films unless it was a Star Wars TV show. Maybe through visions like Luke and Anakin had?

      • @Brian Earl: Same here. Any look at the origins of the Sith seem like one massive story that the movies couldn’t care less about (makes sense, since they’re the bad guys). But to act like an Empire rebuilding itself again and again, and bigger and bigger wouldn’t contain a few truly great people seems foolish.

        Exhibit A: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7qG8ui0vk0

  10. The sun is the centre of the solar system, not universe!

    • LMAO I just fell out out my chair. You can arrest me, if you want ;)

      • Yeah, and Galileo thought the sun was the center of the universe, just as the author said.

  11. Anything that changes up the standard Star Wars mode of operation seems alright with me. These new movies seem like such a chance to do something different and unique and new that to squander it almost feels criminal.

  12. The siths point of view?

    That would be lame.

    • …says a guy named Fawkes!

  13. How can the Jedi be the villains in the next 3 (or 6) movies?? Your reasons are mostly valid according to the books etc but the whole galaxy now knows that Jedi had a massive hand in overthrowing the ‘evil’ Empire. Are you saying that the whole Star Wars galaxy would forget about this fact in 35 – 40 years? Also, back on Earth – none of the ‘film only’ Star Wars fans would accept this, as far as we are concerned Jedi = good / Sith = Evil. Pretty simple and that is how it will be. I just have this feeling that the Emperor will be back in the next trilogy – perhaps Vader killer a clone??

    • **Killed**

      • Could people just stop with this clone thing? It was lame in the Spider-Man comics and it was lame in the SW Dark Empire saga.

  14. I think it’d be nice to see a movie about discovering how to use the force and the first “dark Jedi” to branch off. Kind of a “let’s see where it all started” movie.

    • At least as a spin-off movie.

  15. I agree. Its time to set aside old notions – Jedi being the forces of Light against the Dark forces of the Sith. Make both of them morally ambiguous, but not to the point of confusion. Just make this whole ‘Good’ vs. ‘Bad’ struggle disappear.

  16. has anyone read jedi outcast,its the last saga of books

  17. I don’t really see a story from the Sith’s side coming from this, but rather an opportunity for a story to show redemption on the Jedi’s side. A recognition for the wrongs that they’ve done and reformation of their order.

  18. after reading this i still think that the Jedi are still more of the protagonists of the Star Wars universe compared to the Sith lords because they stand to be more just, compassionate, and selfless in their cause to bring peace and order in their Galaxy. even so, I bet I’d become a Sith lord myself in the Star Wars movie universe due cuz i really wanna force choke my enemies. basically I wanna be Star Killer. but i still want to be on the side of the Jedi, but be able to use force lightning. sigh.

  19. Too much arguing over canon and what the Jedi/Sith are about. No one seeming to realize the ONLY canon in the Star Wars universe is George Lucas’ writings. All the other books are written by other writers in THEIR interpretation of what they wanted to happen, or what THEY wanted as the history. None of it is canon. It should not be treated as such. Now don’t get me wrong, I’m a huge Star Wars fan, I love all the books, and the movies. But people are forgetting it was created by George Lucas, and thus only his writings are canon to the Star Wars universe. So whether the Sith were a race of people trained by Dark exiled Jedi or just the name of an organization that served evil for its own ends is basically irrelevant, as is anything done by the Jedi that may make them seem worse than the “beacons of light” they’re made out to be. Unless Lucas said it is so, it’s all just heresay. -End Rant-

    • “Unless Lucas said it is so”

      Lucas canonized the Expanded Universe. All of it has his implicit approval unless stated otherwise. It is all canon.

      • There are several wrong assumptions here. Way to go in less than two lines!

        First off, NOT everything in the EU is canon. For instance, some books have been deemed non-canon, as well as the old Marvel comics (that is, those with original stories, not the comic book adaptations of the movies).

        Also, there is no “implicit approval.” All EU material is reviewed and classified into different levels of canon, and contrary to the rumor, it is not done by Lucas himself but by someone (the name eludes me right now) he appointed to this specific task.

        Lastly, the highest, undisputable level of canon is the movies. If a movie contradicts a preexisting EU story, the movie supersedes it and becomes the new canon, suddenly making the older material irrelevant. BTW, this is why the fans are so eager to know the tiniest detail about the story of Episode VII: if Abrams chooses to disregard the EU, it is likely that a possibly huge portion of EU lore will fall out of canon.

  20. I always figured the Jedi would go evil with Luke Skywalker. But Palpatine was genuinely evil. He did destroy the Republic and turned it into his own Empire and enslaved half of the galaxy. The senate helped Emperor Palpatine destroyed the Republic as the Romans did and as the U.S. are currently doing. Palpatine, He committed genocide and killed innocent people. Yes the Jedi did too, but we are talking millenniums apart. The Clones were turned into Storm Troopers and induced fear to those planets they occupied. Similar to the Soviets and Germany during World War 2. Just because a man is elected doesn’t mean he represents the people. Hitler was elected, so was Stalin. The Emperor didn’t manipulate democracy, he wielded democracy to establish the Empire. He controlled the Senate. As the Bolsheviks did when they had the punctual democratic government after the deposition of the Tsar, and voted in the communist government by majority seat in Parliament. Thus prompting total control of Russia and the Civil War. Much like in Star Wars.

    So as you may have already guessed, I do have issues with the final segment that the Jedi led a coup against an elected leader would make them evil. No, I disagree.

    This is a very grey area within Star Wars that is also commonly found in our history. It would be interesting to see how this will play out.

    • I absolutely see where you’re coming from. I think history shows that telling a ‘good vs. bad’ story doesn’t teach as much as it could.

    • Stormtroopers are not clones.

  21. Palpatine (as one example) knows he’s evil. He just doesn’t care. He tries to confuse Anakin, who buys his lie. When Anakin calls the Jedi a bunch of traitors, he knows deep down he’s lying: it’s not proven to him personally, and factually untrue. The idea of evil that Sidious has is the same as Yoda’s. There’s no real moral relativism in Star Wars. Fine.
    The lazy writing of George Lucas is to blame. Darth Maul needs a door opened? The Force does it. Qui Gon has to find Theed? The Force. Leia remembers Padme? Force psychic. In reality, or even good fiction, the author doesn’t stick his big clumsy hand into the story every five minutes to move things around because he has zero imagination about how the characters can get things done. That power is the appeal of Star Wars, and the last thing you see right before you wake up from any dream. It’s a gank.
    If the Jedi or the Sith win a fight (if the Force or “the Will of the Force” is with them) or even if the story is told by one or the other, is all based on the writer’s created story logic; what moves things along most effectively. Hopefully whoever does it next will be better than Lucas, but I don’t care. Star Wars is a dead stinky zombie franchise and this article carries a vague whiff of troll.
    Passion, by the way, is the opposite of action; as passive is the opposite of active. The Sith are bound by more restrictive natures, despite their empty promise of freedom. Operating from the shadows, they do little that anyone would approve or enjoy. Add that to the debate about Evil.

    • ZZZZZZZZ! More needless PT bashing.

      • I thought the Force was in all the movies, not just the PT: George Lucas as root user, and definer of the absolute standard of morality for all the characters.

        Star Wars fandom may degenerate further into rebuttals like “ZZZZZZZZ u bash” if more films are made and their premise is further exposed to be inherently stupid.

  22. This would be the perfect chance to segway into Knights of the Old Republic. Sure, the Jedi aren’t technically bad guys, although the line does get very blurry considering all of the lying.

  23. Does anyone really think this is a good idea? I have no problem adding moral complexity. There are certainly storytelling opportunites exploring the fallibility or even the corruption of the Jedi. But trying to reposition a cult of tyrannical moral nihilists as “good guys” or even as morally ambiguous is just silly. By their own admission the Sith disdain altruistic morality.

  24. Sounds like a great idea. More importantly, this idea would continue the portrayal of the Jedi as flawed beings and moral complexity in the STAR WARS universe that began in “EMPIRE STRIKES BACK” and developed even more in the Prequel Trilogy.

  25. Moral Relativism – Yeah, that’s what the new Star Wars needs. Nobody enjoyed the original trilogy and it’s clearly defined good guys / bad guys dynamic, and everybody raved over the second trilogy and the political and moral machinations and confusion. Wait! What?!?

    • When the bad guys are called “the Dark Side” there really isn’t any room for moral relativism. That’s why the characters are simplistic mouthpieces of the author. I don’t think that’s what people enjoyed about Star Wars.

  26. According to who’s Star Wars world? Did George Lucas create the Star Wars universe or did someone else? Everytime I have glanced at the extended universe books my only thought has been, ‘wow Lucas is making a lot of royalties.’ The only history that matters to the film industry is what is on film. None of these books.

  27. Point 6 is compelling. I’d never stopped to consider it fully from this perspective. Mace Windu really f*cked things up bad by acting in haste.

    The fate of the galaxy could have been entirely different had Mace consulted Yoda and the rest of the Jedi Council. The ENTIRE council together should have formulated a much more workable plan.

    • @ Ahmade Ahdoodi

      Actually if Anakin hadn’t come the emperor would have died, Luke and Leia would have met their mother and father, the Jedi would be alive and the Death Star wouldn’t have destroyed Alderan. Besides Mace acted through the law not against it. When mace entered Palpaltine’s room he sates that the Senate is placing him under arrest not just the Jedi. If the Senate had been informed they would have approved of Mace’s actions therefore it was justified.

      If Mace hadn’t acted with haste then Palpaltine could have gotten away or worse even taken over the Republic while the Jedi were still around which would allow him to take over the Jedi.

      • I don’t think either of you is in the wrong. I mean, if Windu had made the Senate aware of the Chancellor’s Sith origins, then the Jedi couldn’t have been accused of acting against the government.

        Even more interestingly, put it to a vote: if the Senate voted him out, then fine, Jedi do all the killing they want. If not, then maybe the Jedi need to change how they see their enemies after millenia.

  28. I can’t read any of this at the moment because i’ve got homework but i will in time

  29. I dont care about either side’s back story from thousands of years ago. I want just one thing and one thing only…..

    BLACK LIGHTSABERS!

    • Haha I want to be insulted by that comment, but I can’t possibly.

    • Why insulted? They would look great on screen in my opinion.

      • No, about the ‘not caring’ about the fiction that the article was built around. I’m completely behind black lightsabers. Played through ‘Star Wars: The Force Unleashed’ multiple times just to unlock it.

        Granted it’s somewhat of a paradox (black…light?) but a super cool paradox, so it’s allowed.

        • I just want them to show them on the big screen so that I can tell an old “friend” eat my shorts. Its always been a debate between us that has infuriated the both of us nearly to the point of physical confrontation. For me its always been what ever the author thinks is cool then so be it, for him its always been Star Wars is based on science and the possibility of such is completely impossible so it can never happen on screen. Artistic license has never occured to him, and because there has never been one in cannon (and for him the movies are the only cannon, never mind Lucas’s own definition of cannon) so it can never exist. Then one day I watch Clone Wars and what do I see?? Death Watch’s Pre Visla swingin not only a black lightsaber but one in the shape of a Katana (yet another hot debate point. But for this stubborn j/a its still not possible because Clone Wars is not cannon for him. So if they put one up on the big screen with a BBG swinging it, maybe then he will finally shut his mouth and admit its all about the cool factor and Star Wars is not beholden to the all mighty physics department. But Im sure he will argue its because George is not involved so it still doesnt count. Oh well, such is our love hate relationship.

          • Your “friend” is so wrong it’s actually a little depressing. He should learn physics 101. “Star Wars is based on science?” Since when? You should remind him that the possibility of lightsabers is completely impossible in the first place. A light ray isn’t finite, it just continues to travel straight through space until it gets so worn out by distance that it becomes undetectable. A real-life lightsaber definitely couldn’t be a few feet long.

        • Black light? Well yes. There are many forms of “light” or better yet radiation (which is all light really is anyway when you get right down to the mechanics of light) that we can not see. Not being able to see this radiation would in essence while lit in an area devoid of visible light appear to humans as black. Notice the word human there? To other creatures that use a different spectrum of radiation to see (UV, IR, Gamma, X-Ray,etc) This blade would light up perfectly. I would not have any explanation as to how they get it to emit that kind of radiation, something that still cant be adequately explained for regular sabers as well. But on screen this effect could be pretty spectacular.

          Another method could be a microscopic black hole contained in the same way as the energy of regular sabers. A black hole is rumored to have an accretion disk that is brilliant with light. On a sub atomic scale a black hole could feasibly create this same light at its edges with sub atomic particles. This would have the effect of a central “black” core surrounded by a brilliant radiation of light as atoms are being sucked in and destroyed on a sub atomic scale. This would be a brutal weapon that would NOT cauterize the wound it makes, for when it strikes it literally tears apart (spagettification)and atomizes material as it comes into contact with anything. Clean, swift cut through literally anything but leaves a horrible wound.

          Just a couple of ideas on how it can work. But in reality Hollywood doesnt need a reason, it just needs to look cool.

          • That black hole weapon would indeed look pretty cool, but I’m afraid it’d be a little too graphically nasty and gruesome for such a family-oriented franchise.
            The cauterizing property of regular lightsabers has a major advantage to avoid an R rating: the lack of blood. A black hole saber would splatter gallons of blood and guts all over the place.
            Not to mention a tiny problem: black holes don’t annihilate matter. They feed on it, suck it in so they grow over time, hence increasing their gravitational pull. Such weapons couldn’t be switched off and would have to be ditched in space on a regular basis so as not to become too powerful and attract everything in their surroundings, including the wielder. Not very convenient to say the least.

        • That wouldn’t be the first paradox in Star Wars.

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