Now that confirmed standalone movies are also in the plans alongside major Episodes, the characters and stories that can be explored are far more numerous. We've already listed the Star Wars spin-offs we'd like to see, but the more we think about it, permanently relegating the Sith or 'Dark Jedi' to the role of villain seems to be making one massive assumption.
At this point, the whole 'Light Side good, Dark Side bad' idea is common knowledge; but that's only according to the Jedi. History, as we know, is written by the victor. We tend to agree with the belief that the Sith were evil-doers and extremists, but it might be worthwhile to actually look at what drove them to that point, and see if a story can't be told placing the Jedi in the role of antagonists.
Allow us to outline 6 Reasons Jedi Could Be Villains In a Star Wars Movie.
I’m sure that this is well-researched, but I’m suddenly very glad that I’ve avoided all of the Extended Universe.
The elegance of the original films came from their simplicity (yes, with all their flaws, too. Ewoks. Egads), very much like a Greek myth (and, yes, I know about J. Campbell).
All that extra backstory is wonderful fodder for fanboy/girl late-night conversation, but it really doesn’t actually have anything to do with Vader’s redemption at the end of Episode 6.
Yet it is the EU that makes the richness of the Star Wars universe, and there are some storylines that rival (and maybe even surpass) the tragedy of Anakin Skywalker. Episodes I-VI tell the story of Vader but it’s thankfully not the only story worth telling in the whole universe.
I love the mythology of the extended universe. My favorite sf book series is Dune and I believe the extended universe of Star Wars gives depth and ambiguity to a oversimplified story. But there is a reason Dune is hard to translate adequately to the screen and its that same reason why I think the extended universe has no place in the Star Wars movies unless it is tied with the existing movie mythology in a simple and concrete way that every moviegoer would understand.
I love the mythology of the extended universe. My favorite sf book series is Dune and I believe the extended universe of Star Wars gives depth and ambiguity to a oversimplified story. But there is a reason Dune is hard to translate adequately to the screen and its that same reason why I think the extended universe has no place in the Star Wars movie
The ‘Expanded Universe’ has been written by authors that don’t get Star Wars. Kevin J. Anderson is a prime example. Star Wars is Space Fantasy/Space Opera, not Science Fiction.
If you didn’t like the Prequels or the Prequels didn’t meet your expectations, you’ll be disappointed by the rest of the Star Wars movies that are coming.
palpatine orchestrated a galaxy wide conflict that killed trillions of ipeople just to gain power, and was committing high treason. What’s more, the dark side does tend to drive the ones who use it
This is off topic but i just want to through this our there imagine Tom Hiddleston (who has expressed interest in Star Wars, article is on Screen Rant.) and Bennedict Cumberbatch who has worked with Director J.J Abrams on Star Trek into Darkness playing the villains in the movie.
The problem with the Force is that we warp it into this fight about good against evil. It’s not. Everyone is always talking about bringing balance to the Force in the movies and this is always interpreted as a balance between good and evil.
George Lucas stylized the Jedi on Eastern Philosophy. In Monastic teaching the only real schism is between Harmony and Discord. To a monk, the Sith would be squarely on the side of Discord and the Jedi their clear opposite. Maybe this is a failing of Lucas to explain it, him not getting it or us not getting it, or the writers of the EU (dont put it past them, they killed Chewbacca with a planet.) But it’s not really the actions of the Jedi or the Sith that are inherently evil, it’s the fact that the Sith flagrantly discard their faith in the Harmony of the Force and do what they think is right.
I like the thought put into this post, I really do, but some of this pro-Sith stuff is stretched a little bit too far. My main gripe is about Palpatine. You said that “it could be said that he manipulated democracy”. He didn’t just manipulate democracy, he went outside the bounds of legal conduct to achieve his goals in the system. When he couldn’t get his way through guile, he didn’t hesitate to have obstacles removed with lethal force. The Jedi, at that point, did operate within the system and were in some ways subject to it, but that doesn’t mean that they didn’t have the authority to arrest Palpatine. He was orchestrating a war against the Republic while acting as its leader, which is considered treason if I’m not wrong. Elected leader or no, he needed to be removed from office and would have been taken peacefully if not for him going batsh*t evil crazy, cutting people’s limbs off. Lol I’m done.
Your #2 is all wrong. That is incorrect with the sabers. It was a technology taken from engineers. They were adapted by one person into a weapon. The first few of them required a huge back pack and were closer to flame throwers then swords. Over generations the designs evolved. And for the bit on jedi always shunning anything dark…whats Mace Windu? His style is all based upon walking the edge of dark and light, using the strength of the dark. Just saying. I realize this article is mostly speculation and personal opinion but for any who care about the ‘facts’
Yes and know it wasn’t his beliefs that was the problem it was the fact that he played both sides. He gained is position through fraudulent means. They didn’t go to kill him but confront him and finding out his crimes, creating a war to gain complete control over the Galaxy. Mace was sent into a rage and attacked him.
Here is what I hate: They focus primarily in this diatribe about how bad the Jedi could be but NOWHERE in there are we SEEING where the Sith are owning up to THEIR flaws. Its not about them? Well how can you make it about the Jedi and not the Sith if you want the audience reading to find it all FAIR? You can’t. You’re setting yourself up for failure. For every finger pointed at the Jedi the author should have the Sith pointing two AT THEMSELVES. o.O That is how you’ll get people hooked. Not like woe is me, I’m bad. More like yeah, well hindsight is 20/20. Irony doesn’t apply to evil because it takes itself too seriously. You never saw the Sith make one liners about letting the Wookie win at space chess or whose being called scruffy. Does The Emperor think Vader a little short to be a Sith Lord?
I think you got lightsabers all wrong buddy. They came from something called “frozen blaster technology”. It is basically a frozen beam of plasma. The force sabers were a precursor but it is something that runs differently. A non force user can use a lightsaber but it is not advised. Although the lightsaber was perfected by the Sith, a design that Jedi still use.
If i were supreme chancellor I would outlaw the use of the force all together.
Nearly every major conflict in the star wars universe where billions if not trillions of people have died has had the rivalry between Jedi and sith at its core. As long as there are Jedi or sith innocent people will continue to get caught in the middle of their efforts to wipe each other out.
Sure if Jedi and Sith didn’t exist people would probably still find some reason to destroy each other. But if the expanded universe has shown us anything it’s that planetary feuds are usually only minor compared to the galaxy wide conflicts between the light and dark sides.
Just my opinion haha.
Yet the fiercest blow to our beloved galaxy far, far away came from the Yuuzhan Vong, a race of extra-galactic conquerors who couldn’t care less about the force.
While most of that is true, and I consider valid, the last point is not wholly correct. In Episode III after discovering that Palpatine was the Dark Lord that had eluded the Jedi since the events of Episode I, the Jedi went to ARREST Palpatine. They meant to arrest him on the grounds of orchestrating the war between the Republic and the Confederacy, this was due to him being the head of both sides. As such, the Jedi attempted to bring his corruption to trial before the Senate. Naturally, the Lord Sidious resisted arrest by Jedi and the Jedi fought him in self-defence. Windu was wrong when he tried to kill Sidious in his office, and I believe Skywalker was right in intervening; albeit, it cannot be ignored that after the combat that had just happened, that Anakin was naive in thinking Sidious might spare the life of the man who just tried to kill him. As such, I do not find the last point completely valid, but as a fan who has traditionally favoured the Jedi, I find this a very interesting and overall well put together argument.
Alexander, even if the Jedi were aware he orchestrated both sides (which they were not at the time, in the movie, they were only aware he was Sith)the fact remains that they went to arrest a lawfully elected official whose only “crime” was a difference of philosophy. This still smacks of an attempted coup, not unlike the coup that toppled the Romanov dynasty in Russia. If you are unaware of how THAT ended, I’ll tell you, the Romanov family members were all shot. Given the violence that Sith noncombatants had faced in the past, it is reasonable to surmise that Palpatine feared for his life, and struck preemptively to protect his life, never mind his position. Palpatine was a victim of the bigotry of the Jedi, although he is no saint.
You make a good point that maybe it is oversimplified to state that the Jedi are good, so the Sith must be bad by default, and that we might need to take into account their side of the story before we start using the good/evil labels… But so much of what the Sith do is inherently evil in that they seek to dominate over every living being.
Now, I guess this argument does a good job of pointing out that the Jedi aren’t exactly perfect either, but what I was kind of getting out of this, especially with the first slide was that, despite the fact that we may be able to related better to the Sith with how they embrace the full range of emotion rather than suppressing it, the Sith to me could be seen as a representation of how humanities instinctual behaviors in the most extreme will hold us all back to being subject to a system where only the strongest will prosper while those who start out from weak beginnings will never be given a chance. That just screams corruption and evil to me.
Now about the last point you made about how the Jedi were being hypocritical when they attacked Palpatine, an elected official… its already been said that Palpatine may have used his powers to corrupt the masses (similar to the jedi mind trick power, but on a larger, more time consuming scale), PLUS its already been established that one of the powers for the Dark Side of the Force is to cloud the minds of others, so he hid his true identity and real intentions from the Jedi for years, so how could they ever get the hint at the idea of there being any sort of corruption in the Senate prior to his true identity being revealed?… PLUS, it was said many times that Palpatine, as Chancellor, was given more and more executive power over the Senate, so its been established that through this corruption, democracy was slowly being killed off. This trend and eventual result of a future Empire was even more obvious once his true identity was finally revealed, and the Jedi obviously saw this as enough of a threat to take him out of power by force. I don’t see it as an attack based on a personal vendetta. The entire teachings of the Sith is in conflict with the ideals of Democracy and Freedom.
So yeah, the Jedi are definitely not perfect (especially with their over suppression of feelings and emotion, and a track record of screwing up a few times….), but they’re doing a helluva lot better of a job of maintaining peace and order than the Sith ever would, and we already know that.
Wow, that would make some great cinema there. The Jei are responsible for there own plight. Cool concept.
The Jedi where very ridged, prickly & arrogant in George Lucas’s Prequel Adventures and this concept tie’s in very well too the style and feel of much of those movies.
[" Windu was wrong when he tried to kill Sidious in his office, and I believe Skywalker was right in intervening; albeit, it cannot be ignored that after the combat that had just happened, that Anakin was naive in thinking Sidious might spare the life of the man who just tried to kill him."]
Why in the f**k aren’t you criticizing Yoda for trying to kill Sidious later in the movie? Because his character wasn’t voiced by a black actor?
["Windu was wrong when he tried to kill Sidious in his office, and I believe Skywalker was right in intervening; albeit, it cannot be ignored that after the combat that had just happened, that Anakin was naive in thinking Sidious might spare the life of the man who just tried to kill him."]
Why aren’t you criticizing Yoda for making the same mistake?
I’m sure that this is well-researched, but I’m suddenly very glad that I’ve avoided all of the Extended Universe.
The elegance of the original films came from their simplicity (yes, with all their flaws, too. Ewoks. Egads), very much like a Greek myth (and, yes, I know about J. Campbell).
All that extra backstory is wonderful fodder for fanboy/girl late-night conversation, but it really doesn’t actually have anything to do with Vader’s redemption at the end of Episode 6.
Too True.
Yet it is the EU that makes the richness of the Star Wars universe, and there are some storylines that rival (and maybe even surpass) the tragedy of Anakin Skywalker. Episodes I-VI tell the story of Vader but it’s thankfully not the only story worth telling in the whole universe.
I love the mythology of the extended universe. My favorite sf book series is Dune and I believe the extended universe of Star Wars gives depth and ambiguity to a oversimplified story. But there is a reason Dune is hard to translate adequately to the screen and its that same reason why I think the extended universe has no place in the Star Wars movies unless it is tied with the existing movie mythology in a simple and concrete way that every moviegoer would understand.
I love the mythology of the extended universe. My favorite sf book series is Dune and I believe the extended universe of Star Wars gives depth and ambiguity to a oversimplified story. But there is a reason Dune is hard to translate adequately to the screen and its that same reason why I think the extended universe has no place in the Star Wars movie
The ‘Expanded Universe’ has been written by authors that don’t get Star Wars. Kevin J. Anderson is a prime example. Star Wars is Space Fantasy/Space Opera, not Science Fiction.
If you didn’t like the Prequels or the Prequels didn’t meet your expectations, you’ll be disappointed by the rest of the Star Wars movies that are coming.
Try the ones by Drew Karpyshan… Karpishin… I cant remember his name, Darth Bane Trilogy!!!
palpatine orchestrated a galaxy wide conflict that killed trillions of ipeople just to gain power, and was committing high treason. What’s more, the dark side does tend to drive the ones who use it
This is off topic but i just want to through this our there imagine Tom Hiddleston (who has expressed interest in Star Wars, article is on Screen Rant.) and Bennedict Cumberbatch who has worked with Director J.J Abrams on Star Trek into Darkness playing the villains in the movie.
The problem with the Force is that we warp it into this fight about good against evil. It’s not. Everyone is always talking about bringing balance to the Force in the movies and this is always interpreted as a balance between good and evil.
George Lucas stylized the Jedi on Eastern Philosophy. In Monastic teaching the only real schism is between Harmony and Discord. To a monk, the Sith would be squarely on the side of Discord and the Jedi their clear opposite. Maybe this is a failing of Lucas to explain it, him not getting it or us not getting it, or the writers of the EU (dont put it past them, they killed Chewbacca with a planet.) But it’s not really the actions of the Jedi or the Sith that are inherently evil, it’s the fact that the Sith flagrantly discard their faith in the Harmony of the Force and do what they think is right.
I like the thought put into this post, I really do, but some of this pro-Sith stuff is stretched a little bit too far. My main gripe is about Palpatine. You said that “it could be said that he manipulated democracy”. He didn’t just manipulate democracy, he went outside the bounds of legal conduct to achieve his goals in the system. When he couldn’t get his way through guile, he didn’t hesitate to have obstacles removed with lethal force. The Jedi, at that point, did operate within the system and were in some ways subject to it, but that doesn’t mean that they didn’t have the authority to arrest Palpatine. He was orchestrating a war against the Republic while acting as its leader, which is considered treason if I’m not wrong. Elected leader or no, he needed to be removed from office and would have been taken peacefully if not for him going batsh*t evil crazy, cutting people’s limbs off. Lol I’m done.
Your #2 is all wrong. That is incorrect with the sabers. It was a technology taken from engineers. They were adapted by one person into a weapon. The first few of them required a huge back pack and were closer to flame throwers then swords. Over generations the designs evolved. And for the bit on jedi always shunning anything dark…whats Mace Windu? His style is all based upon walking the edge of dark and light, using the strength of the dark. Just saying. I realize this article is mostly speculation and personal opinion but for any who care about the ‘facts’
Actually the infinite empire did use forcesabers, there where also battery pack powered sabers like you say, they are called protosabers
“The Jedi Led a Coup Against an Elected Leader”
Yes and know it wasn’t his beliefs that was the problem it was the fact that he played both sides. He gained is position through fraudulent means. They didn’t go to kill him but confront him and finding out his crimes, creating a war to gain complete control over the Galaxy. Mace was sent into a rage and attacked him.
Actually, Mace went into his office to arrest Palpatine. Palpatine attacked first.
Best article about Star Wars I have ever read.
Here is what I hate: They focus primarily in this diatribe about how bad the Jedi could be but NOWHERE in there are we SEEING where the Sith are owning up to THEIR flaws. Its not about them? Well how can you make it about the Jedi and not the Sith if you want the audience reading to find it all FAIR? You can’t. You’re setting yourself up for failure. For every finger pointed at the Jedi the author should have the Sith pointing two AT THEMSELVES. o.O That is how you’ll get people hooked. Not like woe is me, I’m bad. More like yeah, well hindsight is 20/20. Irony doesn’t apply to evil because it takes itself too seriously. You never saw the Sith make one liners about letting the Wookie win at space chess or whose being called scruffy. Does The Emperor think Vader a little short to be a Sith Lord?
I think you got lightsabers all wrong buddy. They came from something called “frozen blaster technology”. It is basically a frozen beam of plasma. The force sabers were a precursor but it is something that runs differently. A non force user can use a lightsaber but it is not advised. Although the lightsaber was perfected by the Sith, a design that Jedi still use.
If i were supreme chancellor I would outlaw the use of the force all together.
Nearly every major conflict in the star wars universe where billions if not trillions of people have died has had the rivalry between Jedi and sith at its core. As long as there are Jedi or sith innocent people will continue to get caught in the middle of their efforts to wipe each other out.
Sure if Jedi and Sith didn’t exist people would probably still find some reason to destroy each other. But if the expanded universe has shown us anything it’s that planetary feuds are usually only minor compared to the galaxy wide conflicts between the light and dark sides.
Just my opinion haha.
Yet the fiercest blow to our beloved galaxy far, far away came from the Yuuzhan Vong, a race of extra-galactic conquerors who couldn’t care less about the force.
While most of that is true, and I consider valid, the last point is not wholly correct. In Episode III after discovering that Palpatine was the Dark Lord that had eluded the Jedi since the events of Episode I, the Jedi went to ARREST Palpatine. They meant to arrest him on the grounds of orchestrating the war between the Republic and the Confederacy, this was due to him being the head of both sides. As such, the Jedi attempted to bring his corruption to trial before the Senate. Naturally, the Lord Sidious resisted arrest by Jedi and the Jedi fought him in self-defence. Windu was wrong when he tried to kill Sidious in his office, and I believe Skywalker was right in intervening; albeit, it cannot be ignored that after the combat that had just happened, that Anakin was naive in thinking Sidious might spare the life of the man who just tried to kill him. As such, I do not find the last point completely valid, but as a fan who has traditionally favoured the Jedi, I find this a very interesting and overall well put together argument.
Alexander, even if the Jedi were aware he orchestrated both sides (which they were not at the time, in the movie, they were only aware he was Sith)the fact remains that they went to arrest a lawfully elected official whose only “crime” was a difference of philosophy. This still smacks of an attempted coup, not unlike the coup that toppled the Romanov dynasty in Russia. If you are unaware of how THAT ended, I’ll tell you, the Romanov family members were all shot. Given the violence that Sith noncombatants had faced in the past, it is reasonable to surmise that Palpatine feared for his life, and struck preemptively to protect his life, never mind his position. Palpatine was a victim of the bigotry of the Jedi, although he is no saint.
You make a good point that maybe it is oversimplified to state that the Jedi are good, so the Sith must be bad by default, and that we might need to take into account their side of the story before we start using the good/evil labels… But so much of what the Sith do is inherently evil in that they seek to dominate over every living being.
Now, I guess this argument does a good job of pointing out that the Jedi aren’t exactly perfect either, but what I was kind of getting out of this, especially with the first slide was that, despite the fact that we may be able to related better to the Sith with how they embrace the full range of emotion rather than suppressing it, the Sith to me could be seen as a representation of how humanities instinctual behaviors in the most extreme will hold us all back to being subject to a system where only the strongest will prosper while those who start out from weak beginnings will never be given a chance. That just screams corruption and evil to me.
Now about the last point you made about how the Jedi were being hypocritical when they attacked Palpatine, an elected official… its already been said that Palpatine may have used his powers to corrupt the masses (similar to the jedi mind trick power, but on a larger, more time consuming scale), PLUS its already been established that one of the powers for the Dark Side of the Force is to cloud the minds of others, so he hid his true identity and real intentions from the Jedi for years, so how could they ever get the hint at the idea of there being any sort of corruption in the Senate prior to his true identity being revealed?… PLUS, it was said many times that Palpatine, as Chancellor, was given more and more executive power over the Senate, so its been established that through this corruption, democracy was slowly being killed off. This trend and eventual result of a future Empire was even more obvious once his true identity was finally revealed, and the Jedi obviously saw this as enough of a threat to take him out of power by force. I don’t see it as an attack based on a personal vendetta. The entire teachings of the Sith is in conflict with the ideals of Democracy and Freedom.
So yeah, the Jedi are definitely not perfect (especially with their over suppression of feelings and emotion, and a track record of screwing up a few times….), but they’re doing a helluva lot better of a job of maintaining peace and order than the Sith ever would, and we already know that.
Wow, that would make some great cinema there. The Jei are responsible for there own plight. Cool concept.
The Jedi where very ridged, prickly & arrogant in George Lucas’s Prequel Adventures and this concept tie’s in very well too the style and feel of much of those movies.
[" Windu was wrong when he tried to kill Sidious in his office, and I believe Skywalker was right in intervening; albeit, it cannot be ignored that after the combat that had just happened, that Anakin was naive in thinking Sidious might spare the life of the man who just tried to kill him."]
Why in the f**k aren’t you criticizing Yoda for trying to kill Sidious later in the movie? Because his character wasn’t voiced by a black actor?
["Windu was wrong when he tried to kill Sidious in his office, and I believe Skywalker was right in intervening; albeit, it cannot be ignored that after the combat that had just happened, that Anakin was naive in thinking Sidious might spare the life of the man who just tried to kill him."]
Why aren’t you criticizing Yoda for making the same mistake?