What Did You Think Of Star Trek? (Spoiler Discussion)
May 8, 2009 by Vic HoltremanNeed a place to talk about the Star Trek movie, including spoilers? Come on in…
Regular Screen Rant reader “790″ suggested I set up a discussion post for the Star Trek movie, where people can feel free to talk about all aspects of the film without having to worry about spoiling it for others. I had meant to set one of these up for Wolverine but just never got around to it.
Considering how popular I think Star Trek will be (moreso than Wolvie), I thought it might be a good idea to get this set up ASAP. 
So discuss the film below to your heart’s content!
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I found this site while checking out the Transformer link. I’m an architect so I know something about “form follows function” and it’s highly controversial. I tend to agree with Steve – people don’t want ugly houses anymore than they want ugly ships. SIN187UM, would you like to live in a house shaped like an egg? It has been postulated that round structures are easier to keep warm, and painting them a reflective white makes them easier to keep cool. With a staircase/elevator in the middle serving as a hub, everything is equidistant. And they’re ugly as a cat’s arse. I loved the movie BTW – gotta see it for a third time before it leaves IMAX! Peace out.
@Callisto
I think any romantic between a student and a teacher that begins while they are student and teacher is highly unethical. It’s an abuse of power. That’s why teachers get fired for it.
Now, it is unclear whether or not she was still a student (it’s especially unclear whether or not she was still a student of Spock’s) while she was on the Enterprise. My guess would be that she was still a student, though, as she hadn’t graduated and she hadn’t left. At any reputable school present-day, Spock would have been fired. Who knows, maybe he was and that was why he ended up on the Enterprise with Kirk.
@SIN187UM
The captain of the Kelvin is not who I am talking about. The scene I am talking about is not even at the beginning of the movie.
@ Andy
As long as it had heat and what not I that would be fine. Seeing how as people live in Cave Houses now.
@Andy, except an egg shaped house would not have good function either. Besides the energy efficiency, everything else is not good. There will be a lot of wasted space since most furniture are squared in shape, putting down wood, tile, or even carpet will be a downright pain in the arse, acoustics of certain rooms will be messed up because of the shape for having a home theater inside your home. And there’s probably many other issues that need to be considered. Like installing a gutter system will be a pain in the arse as well, mowing the lawn outside the home will be weird since you’re following a curved contour, so the standard grid pattern I usually follow to mow my lawn will leave a lot of patches close to the home, lol.
The Kal Penn shot is on the bridge of the Enterprise. It’s a one second reaction shot.
Now, I believe Kal is not in the credits; I think it’s an uncredited cameo.
And who ever said Kal Penn was the Kelvin’s captain?
And the Spock, Uhura thing is not a big deal. Besides, Starfleet Academy is like college, not High School. A professor wouldn’t be fired for having a relationship with a student – everyone’s an adult. We don’t even know if Uhura was on of Spock’s student’s – just that he was impressed with her work.
@ Vee:
I appreciate all your kind words back to me, and I want you to know, I appreciate YOU.
I know that describing Spock as ‘half-human’ or ‘only half-Vulcan’ is on its face disingenuous, words are such clumsy means for trying to impart one’s feelings on these matters, but they are all we have (short of the Borg Hive Mind, of course, lol).
In ST-VI/’The Undiscovered Country’, Kirk reminded Spock: “I got news for ya – we’re ALL Human”; I was so glad to hear someone on Star Trek say that, it summed up what I believe Roddenberry was trying to say all those years. Someone up the rack said (I believe it was the Doc, Steve, who I’ve come to instantly like and respect) that old Gene was a terrible writer, and he’s right – but Roddenberry didn’t have to be a great writer, he hired good writers like DC Fontanna, and brilliant consultants like Harlan Ellison.
I think the best demonstration of this was the episode starring John Daly, ‘Requiem for Methuselah’ about the strange, brilliantly talented hermit named Flint…and his beautiful, tragic protege, Rayna Kopek.
Kirk fell in love with her (as he was so wont to do with strange, beautiful alien women), and as Spock sussed out the reality that Flint was actually several geniuses down the long ladder of Human history (Leonardo da Vinci, the composer Shubert, etc), Kirk’s obsession to seduce Rayna and his inescapable conflict with Flint over the affair caused her to eventually face the reality of her true nature – she was an android.
As a sort of primer for the whole ‘Pinnochio-esqe’ idea of Lieutenant Commander Data, Rayna had no idea that she was not flesh and blood; even Kirk, knowing full well her true nature (and overacting, as usual – “I tell you, she’s HUMAN!” – I’d like to thank the academy…), and still being so in love with her that Spock had to make him “Forget…” by a surreptitious Vulcan mind meld suggestion, couldn’t help his feelings for her, and the conflict was fatal to the young woman – er, android – whatever she was.
My point is, being Human was pretty damn important to Rayna, so much so that the discovery of her true nature and the impossible choice between these two men, Flint, her creator, and Kirk, a dashing young starship captain, was enough to shut her down. The effect was the same as death, as surely as if she had been made of flesh & blood. Like Data, she may have been a machine, but so sophisticated in her construction that even she herself had absolutely no idea of who or what she really was – and the shock of this killed her. Maybe that’s why it’s so important to discover one’s true nature, in order to achieve what you so eloquently described as ‘balance’ – good call, there, Vee.
As for ‘The Cloud Minders’ the story of a ‘Have’ society living in a huge floating sity in the clouds, provided for by the labors of the ‘have-nots’ down below laboring in mines (the ‘Trogs’, short for troglodites), I mention that only as an example of Spock’s passionate appreciation for art and beauty.
But ‘The Savage Curtain’ – now, there was a piece of work!
The plot was over the curiosity of a sort of Jabba-the-Hut character, an ‘Excalabian’, made of living stone (apparently), voiced by the same dude who spoke as the ‘Guardian of Forever’ in the TOS episode “City on the Edge of Forever’. This Excalabian abducted Kirk & Spock, and then provided simulacrons as allies (Kirk’s hero Abraham Lincoln, Spock’s icon Surak of Vulcan), and also gave them foes – Colonel Greene of near future biowar infamy, Kahless the Unforgettable (of the Klingons) and Gheghis Khan – I think there was another one, but it escapes my memory for the moment.
Anyway, the episode was revealing for a number of reasons, not the least of which was the beaming of ‘Abraham Lincoln’ aboard the Enterprise and meeting the ‘charming Negress’ Lt Uhura; she made it clear that racism among Terran Humans was now a thing of the past.
There was a lot that came out of Kirk’s hero-worship of Lincoln, and of Spock’s facination with his cultural hero Surak, and of the Vulcan distaste for violence, and the importance of loyalty to one’s ideals.
But the real kicker, after Surak and Lincoln’s simulacron’s lay dead, the bad guys were nonetheless defeated, and Kirk self-rightously confronted the Excalabian, was in the final exchange:
KIRK: “What gives you the right to play with people’s lives, just for your curiosity?”
EXCALABIAN (in big, booming voice): “The same right that brings you here – THE RIGHT TO KNOW NEW THINGS…”
I liked that!
Love to chat with you! I have made many new interesting aquaintences on here, and I value them all, but let’s face it, You’re a girl, LOL! And I like your insights very much. Between you and Doctor Steve, it’s worth the time.
Zap me back if you feel like it, I always enjoy what you have to say, you don’t seem to be as – how was that again? Oh, yeah – “wound too tight” as some people are, hahahaha!
PS, @ Steve: I agre with ‘Kahless’, you should get some kind of Screen Rant Trek Award for your long-winded post, and none of it was wasted! I second the motion, HEAR, HEAR!
Love your stuff, Doc,
JOHN
PPS: Have you heard any news, Steve, about the new McCoy Diagnostic Bed? I heard about it on an installment of ‘Beyond Tomorrow’, Science Channel. I thought you might know from inside sources, medical journals, whatnot. Any news? They said it was derived strictly from the Enterprise Sickbay!
@Andy
Umm, I kind of thought the Enterprise-D looked a big eggish, but I also thought the whole ship was wasted space.
@ Ken
I agree. We had to study “form and function” during residency rotations in plastic surgery. While the first step in surgical repair is almost always function, form is very important to patients. It’s also nice to know I’m not the only one who mows my lawn like a baseball field
@SIN187UM
Personally, I would find an entire movie of watching nothing but Borg ships very boring. I also found my attempts to watch the TNG movies stymied by the ship, although admittedly the Enterprise-E was a better-looking ship than it’s whalesque predecessor. Federation starships (historically speaking) that appeared in the first six movies were a nice combination of form AND function. I think the Klingon ships did pretty well, and from what little I remember, the Romulans got quite the upgrade in TNG. If “form” didn’t matter, they’d all be zooming through space in cubes, bricks, or some other basic shape. The human mind likes symmetry, which is why every ship you see in Star Trek has at least one line of symmetry within it. There’s no “logical” reason for the Enterprise (any of them) to be split evenly into port and starboard halves. It makes a lot of sense when you’re trying to get something to float or fly (or walk, run, or jump as mammals do) but the only thing a ship needs in space is equal mass for propulsion, or adjusted propulsion to compensate for the mass. I maintain that form and function are both important in a ship if a movie-going audience is going to accept it.
@Cookie
I think your comparison between Jar Jar and Scotty’s pet toad are spot on – neither serves a useful purpose in advancing the plot line. Lucas tried to make up for it by promoting Jar Jar later in his prequels, but they gave him an obnoxious voice and a lack of ability to speak English, which I attribute to his general disdain by audiences. The little toad doesn’t say anything, and I don’t want to see a Star Trek movie that revolves around that character, either. I like my Star Trek based on Kirk, Spock, and McCoy.
@Vee
Glad we’re having a civilized discussion, and I’m often purposely ambiguous in my prose. Sorry. I still don’t think that J.J. Abrahms did anything wrong by Spock’s ancestry in this movie. What Berman and company did in the spin-off franchises is unimportant to me, but feel free to discuss with others. I didn’t like any of the spin-offs, and I’m not connected to the characters. I don’t doubt your assessment of Data is quite correct, or the others. I am utterly unqualified to comment with respect to them.
@ all the Spock/Uhura critics…
They’re both legally adults. As long as there’s no conflict of interest, it doesn’t bother me. Furthermore, Kirk was most assuredly after her, and it added an interesting twist to the plot I was not expecting. This Uhura can stand on her own, and she’s fully in charge. Since nothing about their past relationship is revealed in the movie, anything about what might have happened at the Academy is utter speculation. I only know what I saw in the movie, and I found it well acted, well shot from a cinematic standpoint, and a pleasant way of showing young Kirk doesn’t *always* get his heart’s desire. It’s a lot better than the spontaneous 1-movie fling between Uhura and Scotty; would anyone care to disagree with me about that?
@Callisto
I’m certain you’re correct, but I wouldn’t define any kiss as “interractial.” I will go with “first black/white televised kiss” however, and regardless of whether it was the first or not, it was certainly met with political uproar when Star Trek tried it. Several stations in the souther United States refused to air the episode – or threatened to. According to interviews with Nichelle Nichols and William Shatner, the shot that’s actually used wasn’t even really a kiss… it’s implied, but they didn’t kiss in that take.
And finally…
Back @ Vee
I would say Vulcan’s are a different species based on the limited information provided to us. The basic definition of a species in the ability to interbreed. Since Spock is a genetic combination of Terran and Vulcan, and since (cut footage from) Star Trek II states Saavik is half Vulcan and half Romulan, then they too would be of the same species. Some authors get around this by using vague terms (ST IV: “The annihilation of the Klingon People!” I suspect that if (when) we encounter extraterrestrial life forms, we will either have to redefine taxonomy, or make modifications to the existing system. I would say all bipedal species depicted in Star Trek are of the same Kingom, Phylum, Class, and Order as humans. Family, Genus, and Species remains to be seen and would bore most viewers to tears (not to mention several medical students with whom I am acquainted).
However, I’m a doctor, not a zoological taxonomist, so I welcome correction from someone more informed on this subject than me.
Peace.
My, we are quite the verbose lot aren’t we.
Star Trek fans sure know how to write a paragraph.
@ Fury2701:
I agree that that young cadet was likely Kal Penn, he was after all Kumar, and John Cho (his buddy ‘Harold’, from two very popular movies) was after all Cadet Hikaru Sulu and therefore, well, why not do a cameo? They do it all the time.
I’m just surprised JJ Abrams didn’t do a cameo himself, a’la Ron Moore in the last scene of the ‘Battlestar Galactica’ 2-hour finale! And I would’ve been all for it if he had, but it was admirable that he restrained the temptation.
And as for the Spock/Uhura tryst, has anybody remembered ST/III?
Spock was way past 21 in this movie (a multiple of 7, the number of years a Vulcan male undergoes the agony of ‘Pon Farr’, the mating impulse), by then; Nero said he’d been waiting 25 years so it would be at least another 3 years before he was ready for a relationship, right?
I remember all the jokes about the Pon Farr 7-year mating ceremony of the Vulcans, after that movie – the gag was, That was why Vulcan ears were pointed, all that stuff was backed up! Hahahaha!
I doubt that, but then, I am not Vulcan.
Although, it has been a while…sometimes I FEEL like one!
JOHN
@Johhny-O
Sorry, your post came in while I was composing another novella.
Thanks for the kudos, and your knowledge of TOS episodes is outstanding.
To answer your post-signatory question, I believe you’re referring to a product called “LifeBed,” of which I have seen a demonstration. It’s not sickbay, but I wouldn’t mind having an E.R. full of them. They’re meant for convalescing patients, however, and are really just over-priced versions of existing equipment. You can get the same thing with an electrocardiogram (EKG) and a pulse oximeter, but the bed is very neat. As I said earlier, Star Trek inspires us to create, and I don’t doubt we’ll have a bed that Bones himself would love sooner versus later. If you look at the brief glimses you get of the one in the new movie, it has a skeletal view of the patient on the display, which apparently means it as x-ray-like capabilities. Now *that* would be incredibly beneficial, but you’d need to find a way to do it with magnetism (like an MRI) without the big magnets to avoid radiation exposure (from x-ray/CT) or pulling every metallic object (including scalpels!) toward the patient or unfortunate souls in the general proximity of said patient.
If you’re aware of a different product, I’d love to hear about it, but unforutnately, the “secret” annals of medicine are all quite exposed thanks to the Internet. Any college student with access to MedLine has the ability to read the same articles I do (and probably more time to read them) but I’ll check it out when I get some time. One of my colleages is the director of medical technology, and I’ll ask her about it when we’re next on shift together.
Cheers for the interesting topic (sorry for those who think it’s a bit off – but it does have to do with the sickbay in the movie!)
@Fury
We’re very verbose. Points to you for knowing the word
However, I dare say we write more than one paragraph!
I stand corrected – many a paragraph do we write.
I’m going to try to keep my responses down to sentances – to try to bring down the average.
@Johhny-O
Just as a point of clarification – according to “Amok Time” Vulcans *must* mate every seven years (which should be interesting now that their planet is gone) but there’s no statement that indicates they cannot mate more frequently. Furthermore, the concept of the cycle is slightly flawed, because if it were true, the population of Vulcan would double every 14 years, at a minimum. Clearly not every cycle produces offspring, but it’s also quite likely that Vulcans are smart enough to use contraception correctly. I’m not about to start a debate on birth control on a fictional world however!
“Doc”
(P.S. – I’m fine with that nickname as long as nobody calls me “The Doctor” after that horrible holographic thing on Voyager.
@Fury
As long as you spell “sentences” correctly, I’m all for it
Aw come on now – the holographic doctor was great.
Robert Picardo was brillant as the Doctor on Voyager.
Nice, Doc.
@ Steve
Sorry but I still see your post as being about physical attractiveness of the ship and not form for functioning. Having worked on F-15 for quite some time now I am familiar with the symmetry blah as it pertains to aircrafts and how it affects functioning and movement and what not. Also cube chunks and spheres have been getting around for a while in space with the most basic of forms. So for me anyway it would have been different if u would have stated that oh the wood grain in the bridge causes splinters as people slide there hand across it, or about something how the actual from affects the ships functioning. I mean in a sense all Enterprises were whales, because I can remember in TOS and TNG how slow they turned. Hell at least TNG looked comfortable on the bridge.
@Fury
I have no problem with Robert Picardo, and respect him in other works. I happen to disagree with his choice of roles being in that series, but to each their own. Put more simply: he’s no McCoy.
I’d like to hear opinions on the movie’s score. I found it amazing that Michael Giacchino (another Italian, I beleive, like Picardo, and me) wrote about thirty minutes of music – excluding the closing credits – that covers the entire movie. The piece used as “Star Trek” and the logo appear as the title screen is amazing, in my opinion. I believe he uses the same “bang” of cymbals when the Enterprise first appears onscreen was very similar to what I felt the first time I saw the Enterprise in the original movie. He may have drawn inspiration from Jerry Goldsmith given the choice of instrumentation, but I’m a doctor, not a composer.
“Doc”
@ Steve:
I take your point, and after all, WHO’S THE DOCTOR HERE? Hahaha!
You should know, and as far as kudos, you’re welcome to them, Doc, as far as I can tell you’ve earned ‘em.
Sorry you didn’t go for the Holo-Doc on Voyager, I suppose that would be a point of professional discourtesy from the POV of anyone in the medical profession – just imagine how many caregivers would be put off by a ST ‘robo-nurse’, lol!
@ Fury2701: And as for verbosity, Fury, you have a point, but I’m having such a good time on here, my only concern is that I might be boring. Would hate to be that!
Having said that, however, kudos to you for showing admirable restraint, even as a point of leavening; I liked most of what you had to say, in any case. Write on, fellow voyager!
Btw, Doc, how about the Doctor from Dr Who? Not a bad comparison, there, right? Hahaha! Do you own a TARDIS?
And as for the ‘Lifebed’, I’m still impressed, but remember, this is still way back in the primitive early 21st Century, lol! Give them time…
JOHN
@SIN187UM
Sorry, but the Enterprise-D’s bridge looked like an advertisement for a Lazy-Z-Boy sectional. Did they have cupholders in the arms of the chairs? If your argument about form being irrelevant is true, why did they add padding to the chairs? And where are the seatbelts?
@ Johhny-O
My problem with Voyager was that it reminded me too much of Star Trek Generations and “everything will be here on Tuesday.” No ship goes out without a sufficient medical staff. I have friends who serve(d) in the US Navy, and medical ranks up there with “helmsman” in importance before launch. I don’t recall how many doctors they had on Voyager, but if they were all wiped out (yet somehow Sickbay persisted) then they had a really bad distribution of crew. He was used as a plot device, and as Vee so eloquently points out, he was just that series attempt at trying to portray the soul who was searching for his/her humanity. As I understand it, many more people were impressed with 7 of 9.
“And as for the ‘Lifebed’, I’m still impressed, but remember, this is still way back in the primitive early 21st Century, lol! Give them time…”
To quote McCoy from ST IV: “It’s a miracle these people ever made it out of the twentieth century.”
“Doc”
OK Doc, now at the risk of sounding like a New York sterotype, I’m Italian as well, so now you and I are Amichi.
Oh and Michael Giacchino is wonderful, as any fan of Lost already knows.
@ Steve:
“As I understand it, many more people were impressed with 7 of 9.”
Yeah, and she looked pretty damn nice in a cat suit, didn’t she???
And I, for one, believe in miracles, mainly due to 40 years of watching Star Trek…
Later, Doc,
JOHN
@Fury
Mi fratello, just keep your boys out of my business and we’re all good. I’d hate to have to make you an offer you can’t refuse.
@ Johnny-O
Star Trek does reaffirm my belief in miracles; after all, they made a movie for me again after almost twenty years!
More verbose postings shall follow tomorrow. I need sleep, because patients are understandably nervous when their physician is yawning as he explains a procedure he’s about to undertake. I had enough of those nights in Med School, thank you very much.
Primum no nocere, et pax.
-Doc
About the score for the movie: I’m a muso, but I regret that I didn’t pay that much attention to the music when I saw the movie. I’ve only seen it once so far and I don’t usually start annalysing the music until I’ve seen it a few times.
So while I’d love to have a big discussion about the music, I can’t
Perhaps once I’ve seen it more times…
@ Steve & Fury2701:
Hey, guys, I’m only a Heinz-variety British/Austrian mutt, myself, but may I consider you both ‘paisans’???
Or is that too much of an overstep? Lol!
JOHN
PS: I am glad this subject came up, my non-Italiano status notwithstanding, and I’ll tell you why:
There was a character mentioned in the ST lore, years back, maybe not canon but still very interesting, along the parallel lines of another contemporary of James T Kirk, Garth of Izar (one of Kirk’s heroes, from ‘Dagger of the Mind’, TOS).
His name was supposed to be, if I’m not mistaken, Anthony Velacorra, a starship captain of amazing repute, similar to Captain Kirk’s.
Although not Italian myself, I would love to see a Star Trek heroic figure of Italian origin (all due respect to Cap’ns Sisko, Janeway, et al), just because, well, of Columbus, I guess, to start with.
That, and the culture, people, and FOOD (oh, God help me, do I love the food!) of that magnificent penniunsula should be part of the ongoing ST legacy. I could get behind a sexy, sage, hot-blooded Italian starship captain like that.
I suppose EJO’s Admiral Adama pretty much filled the Latino niche on Battlestar Galactica, even tho’ the character Adama was not, in the show, Latino. Or from Earth. He was Human, I guess…
Anyway, I read about this guy, Anthony Velacorra, and I was wondering if anyone else had read about him, in their ST literature?
Later, guys…
Consider yourself part of the family Giovanni-O.
I have not heard of the character in question but I would obviously support one. It seems like an Italian explorer Captain is overdue.