Regular Screen Rant reader “790″ suggested I set up a discussion post for the Star Trek movie, where people can feel free to talk about all aspects of the film without having to worry about spoiling it for others. I had meant to set one of these up for Wolverine but just never got around to it.
Considering how popular I think Star Trek will be (moreso than Wolvie), I thought it might be a good idea to get this set up ASAP. 
So discuss the film below to your heart’s content!
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Another thing, this is not a simple time travel story. When Nero and Spock go thru the black hole they are shifted into a different dimension as well as time. That is why Spock then becomes Spock prime.
Also there have been some comments on the power of Nero’s ship. I didn’t see it do anything that I would say is odd. For one the ships of the Romulan Empire are very different from all the other ship in the star trek universe. For one they are most likely all armed, that would keep with a militaristic society. They are generally more powerful then federation starships as well as larger due to them being powered by a quantum singularity instead of the matter/anti-matter reaction. I have no doubt that had the enterprise-E came back as well it would have destroyed Nero’s ship without even raising its shields. But those same weapons that would not have even scratched Picard’s ship would be devastating even to the enterprise-A.
Lastly, this movie was perfect to me. The apple in the chair while Kirk took the kobiyashi maru harkened back to when he told David how he beat it. The only plot hole that I have not been able to explain was the transport from that moon to the enterprise. But, trek is known for stuff like that (voyager and the crack in the black holes event horizon) and I will take it and find an explanation for it because that is what a trekkie does.
Thanks for reading.
Hi everyone, thanks for the great discussion here. Never seen such great debate since the likes of Phantom Menace back in the 90s. Just like to let everyone know about the Star Trek Countdown, the prequel comics that may explain a lot about Nero, his motivation, his ship and why his vengeance is focus on Spock.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_Countdown
“The comic is set eight years after the film Star Trek Nemesis. Federation and Romulan tensions have generally subsided, with Spock the official Federation ambassador to the Romulans. Data is still alive and has become captain of the Enterprise-E after successfully imprinting his memories onto the prototype android B-4. Jean-Luc Picard is now Federation ambassador to Vulcan, Geordi La Forge has retired to develop his own ships, and Worf is a General in the Klingon Empire.
The galaxy is threatened by the Hobus star, which will become a supernova. Spock proposes that the Romulans transport the precious mineral Decalithium to Vulcan, where it can be converted into red matter capable of turning the star into a black hole, therefore ending its threat. The senate opposes Spock, but he finds a comrade in Nero, the leader of the miners. Nero witnessed Hobus consume a planet first-hand and offers to secretly transport Decalithium, noting it would be better than doing nothing and then leaving his wife and unborn son to die. Nero’s ship, the Narada, is attacked by the Remans, but the Enterprise rescues them and escorts them to Vulcan with Decalithium taken from the Reman ships. On Vulcan, the council opposes Romulan use of red matter, infuriating Nero; he vows if Romulus is destroyed, he shall hold them accountable.
Nero returns to Romulus to discover Hobus has gone supernova and destroyed his home world. Driven mad by his loss, he attacks Federation Olympic class hospital ships that have arrived to give aid, believing they have come to claim his people’s territory. He beams aboard surviving senators onto his ship and kills them for not listening to Spock, and then claims the Praetor’s ancient trident, the Debrune Teral’n, which is the greatest symbol of Romulus. He and his crew then shave their heads and apply tattoos to signify their loss. Nero goes to the Vault, a secretive Romulan base, and has the Narada outfitted with Borg technology to begin a rampage against his enemies.
With the supernova expanding, Spock decides to deposit the red matter weapon. He takes the Jellyfish, a ship developed by La Forge that can withstand extreme environmental conditions. The Narada goes about destroying and assimilating Federation, Klingon and Cardassian ships alike, wounding Worf and damaging the Enterprise in the process. When Spock successfully destroys the supernova, the Narada appears to attack when the black hole flings it and the Jellyfish back in time, leaving Picard and the crew of the Enterprise as witnesses to Spock’s sacrifice.”
@maverick
Thanks for that synopsis; it explains a lot. Hopefully they will include this on the DVD.
Are you Bret or Bart? Or are you just a top-notch pilot?
@ Badnewsoit:
Yes, I think you are dead-on about those shields, the difference between TOS and the ST universe of the TNG era (which would include Voyager & DS9), I noticed that as far back as the TOS series. Weapons bursts would appear to strike the Enterprise’s hull, but not do any damage – the shields, it seemed, fit the ship’s hull like a hand in a glove, whereas the Enterprise D seemed to have a 360 degree shell that lit up a little whenever it was assaulted – well away from the hull, in a sort of lozenge or pillow shape. This shield system could also be extended around nearby vessels, I watched Geordi LaForge (and others) do this many times, something well beyond Scotty’s abilities with his ‘poor bairns’!
Also, I agree with your assessment of Romulan technology; the Type II Warbird, the D’deridex class (you remember it, right?) dwarfed the Enterprise D, and even Romulan shuttlecraft were always heavily armed, not to mention the patented Romulan Plasma Bolt weapon (‘Ballance of Terror’, TOS) – and you are absolutely right, they used an artificial quantum singularity in their warp cores, not something safe like antimatter, lol!
This may’ve also had some effect on the timewarp when the Narada & Spock’s ‘Jellyfish ship’ were pulled into the collapsar created by Spock’s Red Matter – after all, the singularity onboard the Narada is a space warp device, correct?
Anyway, like you I was pretty impressed with Kirk’s non-chalance during the Kobayashi Maru Scenario, munching his apple and acting oh-so-cool, just like he did years later inside the Regula asteroid. I think that was just a co-incidence, however, just a recalled plot device on Abram’s part – a sure sign he has been paying attention all these years. The scene with the apple made me think of JAG lawyer Danny Caffee’s (Tom Cruise) interview in Demi Moore’s office in the movie ‘A Few Good Men’, when he made the crack about all the cases he’d settled without even having to go to court – “One more and I win a set of steak knives” – remember that great scene?
As for the transprter issue, as I remember it, and in accordance with what others have said on here, as I understand it Scotty was on Punishment Tour at that Federation outpost because he got one of his instructor’s nose out of joint for writing a paper that concerned something called ‘Transwarp Beaming’, a then-theoretical concept of using transwarp conduits (first mentioned in STII/Wrath of Khan as the ‘Great Experiment’ which was the USS Excelsior, on which such great hopes were pinned for a new era in space travel), which if you recall were never successfully used all throughout the entire TNG era (until the alternate timeline in ‘All Good Things’, as in Cap’n Beverly Picard’s medical frigate USS Pasteur – I guess they finally worked it out, lol!), except by the Rogue Borg (led by the Borg Geordi nicknamed ‘Hugh’); the effect was very cool, of a ship simply being swallowed by a light coming out of a rip in the space/time continuum.
I believe Scotty, as early as the Academy days was able to ‘do the math’, and found a way to utilize these Transwarp Conduits to successful effect for a transporter matter stream. This is how he was able (and of course with Spock Prime’s help), to beam himself and Kirk onto the Enterprise at high warp from several lightyears away. It makes sense, and though I have yet to see the film again, I am sure I heard him mention Transwarp Conduits in his explanation to Kirk, but I cant be sure until I see it again.
Anyone else out there planning on giving up another ten bucks, keep your eyes & ears open for that!
Also, someone on here mentioned Kal Penn was on the Enterprise bridge, I gotta watch for that, too.
U know, I just may have to buy this one when it comes out on DVD…
Btw, my DVD of Nemesis was so bad, after the first couple of times I watched it, it de-rezzed! Can you believe that? I couldn’t even raise anything on my PC!
I hope this helped,
JOHN
I’m a longtime fan of the original series but hated “The Next Generation” (PC, sexless, soulless, dramatically inert) and the other TV spawn and was disappointed with all of the films, which became increasingly ridiculous and incestuous. Khan was clearly the best of the bunch but was still highly derivative, just like the first movie–and I was distracted to the point of anger by the inexplicable open white flap on Shatner’s red tunic.
After seeing the Abrams take, I will concede with the critics (and most viewers) that it’s “fresh” and “exciting,” and in most respects a huge improvement on everything since TOS. On a purely visceral and aesthetic level, the “reboot” works–the special effects and production design are first-rate; stuff actually looks and sounds functional, and the attention to detail is obvious. (Though the Romulans weren’t sufficiently menacing in appearance: They looked like a cross between South Sea Islanders and Eastern European drug dealers). The plot, however, is a convoluted mess, and I would have preferred that the filmmakers had gone all the way in their quest to break from the past and just left Nimoy out of it. I understand that the time-travel nonsense was a strategy to enable future films in the franchise to ignore the constraints imposed by old TV episodes, but I found Nimoy’s presence an unwelcome and unnecessary distraction. I would have preferred a straight-up war film, along the lines of “Balance of Terror,” than the largely incoherent contrivances involving “red matter” and black holes necessary to create two Spocks.
I have an old book called “Star Trek Speaks” that compiles the best dialogue from the original series, and in flipping through it last night I was reminded that every episode had a few great quotable lines (the best episodes had many)–sometimes funny, sometimes profound. At its best, TOS was LITERATE. This element is sadly missing from the new film, which has no remarkable dialogue and much that is banal or just silly (sex with farm animals?). Of course, what do you expect from the team responsible for “Transformers”? Abrams has said that he is not a big fan of TOS because it is “too talky,” but unfortunately his film is “no talky.” The cast was OK, particularly Quinto; I didn’t much care for Urban, who, of all the actors, came closest to an impersonation (but without DeForest Kelley’s emotional depth). But, given sufficiently good writing, they can grow on me. I just hope that in the next film the writers are going to come with something original rather than go back to the well once again and rehash old plot elements and characters. But I’m not holding my breath.
@Maverick
Thanks for the great info. That answers a lot of the comments that I and many others have posted.
You would think that the movies producers would have given the comic a-hell-of-a-lot more publicity since they were that important to the plot!
I don’t think many of us would have known they existed if not for Screen Rant!
@ Maverick:
We all here owe you a great deal, now everything is clear!
Abrams should’ve made a 2-parter, like they did with ‘Back TO The Future II & III’; it would’ve been a last hurrah for the TNG crew and it would’ve made things so much easier to understand. Thanks to you, I see how it all fits together now very nicely.
As it is, the only route they have to clear things up is to do another prequel, a’la ‘Godfather II’ the story behind the story, as it were – if it would sell – do you think it would?
Many, many thanks, Kahless is right about you, you ARE a top-notch pilot!
JOHN
@Maverick
Great find! I didn’t think to check Wikipedia for a concise summary of the prequel.
Thanks,
Vic
Just a point of correction.
Transwarp beaming could not have been mentioned in ST2 “Wrath of Khan” because the “Great Experiment” Excelsior was not mentioned until ST3 “Search for Spock” when the Enterprise arrives at Spacedock (and a very cool looking spacedock, btw).
@ Purist:
“Just a point of correction.
Transwarp beaming could not have been mentioned in ST2 “Wrath of Khan” because the “Great Experiment” Excelsior was not mentioned until ST3 “Search for Spock” when the Enterprise arrives at Spacedock (and a very cool looking spacedock, btw).”
You’re absolutely right, Terry, I stand corrected – it WAS STIII/’Search for Spock’, just as you say, I guess they both blended together as one plot, when you think about it, one was the lead-in to the other…Sorry! And thank you for the catch, I appreciate it.
They did mention ‘Transwarp Drive’ in ST-III, and of course no one but the Rogue Borg figured out how to use it until well into the TNG run; the Excelsior was supposed to be the great hope for transwarp, but according to what I have read, that goal was a mission failure and the big ship was slightly redesigned (if you look closely at the original plans, it’s visible) to be merely the newest Heavy Cruiser. By the time Captain Sulu took command, the great single Impulse Deflector Crystal, set into its impulse housing, had been replaced with two smaller ones side by side, and Excelsior was by then only capable of standard high warp velocity; transwarp beaming was apparently a simpler matter, I suppose, although to Scotty it WAS still just a theory, until Spock Prime showed up with the right calculations.
Yeah, I agree, that Ournal Spacedock was cool, wasn’t it? I liked it too.
L8r, JOHN
Thanks Johhny-O, I had forgotten about transwarp. Well now my plot holes are filled and I am very happy. Like everyone else I also hope they do a bit more cerebral movie next time but cerebral does not mean no action which sometimes trek does forget. The wrath of khan and undiscovered country were both good examples of this. Also, as someone had said earlier in the thread, the enterprise was a sight to behold spinning and dodging debris when it dropped out of warp at Vulcan. Just beautiful.
I’m glad I’m not crazy – that some other people out there spotted Kal Penn. Thank you Cookie Garris.
And thanks Maverick for the Star Trek Countdown synopsis.
Few more points:
Didn’t like the new hand phasers – thought they looked “plastic-y”.
The new Enterprise has grown on me. When I first saw the screen shots I thought they created a hybrid of the TOS version of the ship and the “movie” 1701-A version. Didn’t really know if it was good or not. But the shot of the Enterprise coming up through the rings of Saturn . . . that’s it – I’m sold. Although the interior was a little to shiny white for me.
Just nit-picks, not a big deal.
Still not happy about Vulcan being gone. Just watched a three-part Enterprise episode about Vulcan and Surak and Vulcan lore. All I could think about was this whole planet is going to be destroyed. A little too much sacrifice if you ask me.
I will give the movie 5 of 5 stars. I have been waiting 7 years for a new movie and I wasn’t disappointed. I didn’t expect the movie to be exactly true to every single aspect of the known Trek history. I felt the characters were as dead on as they could be and I especially like the young Bones. There were enough tidbits in the movie to help my comfort leval (the gross bug, Pike, refernece to Admiral Archer, Spoke of course, etc). It though the young Scott was a bit of a stretch but he was fun an refreshing. I could have lived without Winona as Spocks mother. It leavs you thinking and I can’t wait for the next 2. I am still hoping against hope that someday, someone will be able to write a doable script tht would incorporate all the series in some sort of crazy time travel thing. Of course all the ‘generations’ would have to come together to save time as we know, it etc:) It would probably have to be a 2 parter. This way we could see many of of our fav characters, past and present and the new past. Thanks Star Trek for my many years of enjoyment and being part of my family. T
@macerick
Then why does Nero hate Spock if he knows he was the only one fighting to use the red matter to save his home world??
Because Spock failed and Nero lost his wife.
Oops, meant to say maverick anyway…
But anyway, I think you are missing the point, read the synopsis maverick posted. In that, it reads pretty clearly that Nero recognizes that the fault of the delay that resulted in the destruction of the planet was on the senate, not on Spock.
“He beams aboard surviving senators onto his ship and kills them for not listening to Spock”
He obviously recognizes that Spock is the only one trying to help him and that it was the Senate’s fault.
I think perhaps the movie simply wanted to find a way for Leonard Nemoy to appear in the movie with Kirk, and that’s why he was captured and beamed onto the very planet Kirk is stranded on, coincidentally. While in the original version, Nero probably wasn’t against Spock and that sequence was never supposed to happen??
Nero also let Spock live.
I’ve read every comment here, and I’m a little surprised. Does no one else find it disturbing that Spock, an instructor at SFA, was supposed to be having a romantic relationship with his STUDENT?!
@Di Bott
I respect that you have different priorities in your movie rating system than most of the people here, and that you feel you have the magical ability to infer someone’s sex by reading a post that doesn’t mention their sex anywhere, but please don’t bring the war of the sexes into this. I am a woman, and I left this movie feeling conflicted, disappointed, and let down. I recognised that the actors performed brilliantly, but that there were plot holes and inconsistancies the size of planets. Basically, I thought the plot was crap, the scripting was mediocre, and the acting was (as stated above) brilliant.
Most of the things mentioned in the above posts distracted and bothered me throughout the whole movie so that I didn’t enjoy it. I say most things because the destruction of Vulcan, the alternate timeline, the recreation of many of the characters (notably Scotty, Kirk, and Sulu) – those things didn’t bother me. I didn’t even notice the lense flares that people keep bringing up. Spock being SO emotionally motivated bothered me. The romance that seemed thrown in just so that there would be a romance in the movie bothered me. The rediculous idea that a supernova could destroy the Galaxy bothered me. Spock Prime being able to clearly see the destruction of Vulcan with his naked eyes from another planet bothered me. The end scene (where the Nerada is destroyed) bothered me for a number of reasons, most of them mentioned here.
I was also really bothered by how this movie seemed to be Star Wars with Trek-based characters. It seems that the people involved in making the movie must have realised this, too, at some point and started getting some “inspiration” from other popular sci-fi shows and movies of the past. The whole movie came off to me as half fan-fic, half sci-fi Frankenstein (except for the acting and the CGI – those where both beautiful).
I’d be looking optimistically forward to the sequel, except that the same people are making it, so I doubt it will be any different.
Ooo. After re-reading that, I feel I should add that I do still want a sequel, I do still plan on watching the movie again, and I plan on buying it when it comes out on disk. I don’t think it was a bad movie. I just think that it didn’t live up to the standard for story telling that we’ve come to expect from Star Trek (barring Enterprise and the bad movies).
Spock is half human, and so does have an emotional side that he controls/manages better as he matures. As shocking as those scenes were to me and most Trek fans, for me it was easy enough to accept.
Yeah, that’s basically what I kept saying to myself through the whole movie. “He’s supposed to be a lot younger, right? So this is possible.” I do accept that this was a completely valid direction for them to go in with young Spock, but it still bothered me on an emotional level. This is part of what I’m calling my ‘Star Trek baggage’ and why I wish I’d gone and seen this movie without ever having seen ST before. I would have enjoyed it more, I think. I plan to wrestle with my baggage over another 10 or so viewings of the movie.
So, yeah. With that particular point, I wasn’t saying “You jerks! How could you do that to Spock?” It was more “Umm…I’m having trouble accepting it.”
Probably also complicating my struggle to accept this Spock is the fact that I’m an avid Heroes fan. There were a couple of times when uninvited thoughts of Sylar crept into my head. Between my ST baggage and my Heroes baggage, I was so confused that I probably can’t even make many valid comments about Spock in this movie.
Thankfully, I have a whole summer with no Heroes and many viewings of Star Trek ahead of me to help sort it all out.
@Vee if it helps.
Remember that Spock did not go through Kolinahr until after the first five year voyage. This he did because he felt that he was to emotional. Even without that it was Spock prime that told Kirk that he would be able to get an emotional response from Spock because he himself(SP) was feeling highly emotional after seeing his planet die. Just my thoughts hope they help.
I think I went into the film under the impression that Spock Had deeply repressed his emotions since childhood and that it was the Enterprise crew who pulled his humanity out bit by bit. My take (and I admit here I could be WAY off as I only watched TOS once through) was that this gradually emerging humanity scared him into his attempts to return to pure logic before he finally came to terms with his human heritage and accepted emotions as being a part of who he was.
To me, Spock’s struggle with his humanity seemed to have a lot of parallels with many peoples’ strugle with their homosexuality (part human on Vulcan being viewed in much the same way as homosexuality was viewed in, say, the 1980′s). Complete denial through teens and young adulthood (acting completely Vulcan/straight) until some person or group pulls the truth out. Then an attempt to fix the defect (kolinahr/gay correction camps) before a final acceptance of the truth.
Spock Prime knowing he would be emotionally compromised but deny it didn’t bother me at all because it still fit perfectly. Young Spock being that emotional threw me because it didn’t match with my preconceptions about how he would have handled it. The more I think about it, the more it makes sense (partly because this version has a much higher dramatic value). It just didn’t even come close to what I expected going in.
Slightly off topic – am I the only one who likes Enterprise?
I don’t see what’s so bad about the series.
Please, enlighten me.
@Fury2701
This may offend. As a disclaimer: this is simply my opinion. I feel pretty convinced about it, but it’s still only my opinion with no proof but the episodes themselves to back it up.
I liked the premise for Enterprise. I thought it had a lot of promise. However, it became pretty clear to me by half way through the first season that Scott Bakula couldn’t act any emotions but confusion and anger. The writers seemed to pick up on this and opted to have him angry increasing amounts of time until he was just angry all the time with brief breaks of confused anger. This made Captain Archer seem like an emotionally challenged dullard, and that’s just not something that an audience can connect to and admire.
Most of the rest of the cast was average, meaning that they could have done well if the main character had ben well acted. Since that wasn’t the case, they struggled. The only two characters that were really well acted were Trip and Dr. Phlox. I thought Malcolm was pretty good, but I’ve since seen that guy in other roles and come to the conclusion that he just got lucky with Malcolm.
So, in conclusion, I feel that the show could have been really good if Bakula’s inability to act hadn’t killed it. As it is, it was almost painful to watch by the end.
No offense taken at all.
But I will say this – if Bakula is as bad as you say, and frankly I thought he was fine, the show whole should still not be bad. A Star Trek series is bigger than any one actor – even the “lead”. And BTW I think that Trip was well done ans so was T-Pol. I enjoyed watching the female vulcan perspective and her relationship with Trip.
Now – Next Gen was made better by the acting of Patrick Stewert, among others, but he didn’t “make” the show.
I think Archer was a good character. He was just different than other captains that came after him. He was supposed to be naive, and full of wonder and flawed. Humanity at the time was supposed to be learning how to be part of the galatic community. He shouldn’t have been the polished diplomat that Picard was or the adventuous cowboy that Kirk was.
@ Badnewsoit & Vee:
@ Bad: “If it helps. Remember that Spock did not go through Kolinahr until after the first five year voyage. This he did because he felt that he was too emotional. Even without that, it was Spock Prime that told Kirk that he would be able to get an emotional response from Spock because he himself (SP) was feeling highly emotional after seeing his planet die. Just my thoughts, hope they help.”
@ Vee: “I think I went into the film under the impression that Spock had deeply repressed his emotions since childhood and that it was the Enterprise crew who pulled his humanity out bit by bit. My take (and I admit here I could be WAY off as I only watched TOS once through) was that this gradually emerging humanity scared him into his attempts to return to pure logic before he finally came to terms with his human heritage and accepted emotions as being a part of who he was.
“To me, Spock’s struggle with his humanity seemed to have a lot of parallels with many peoples’ struggle with their homosexuality (part human on Vulcan being viewed in much the same way as homosexuality was viewed in, say, the 1980’s). Complete denial through teens and young adulthood (acting completely Vulcan/straight) until some person or group pulls the truth out. Then an attempt to fix the defect (Kolinahr/gay correction camps) before a final acceptance of the truth.
“Spock Prime, knowing he would be emotionally compromised but denying it didn’t bother me at all because it still fit perfectly. Young Spock being that emotional threw me because it didn’t match with my preconceptions about how he would have handled it. The more I think about it, the more it makes sense (partly because this version has a much higher dramatic value). It just didn’t even come close to what I expected going in.”
Bad & Vee, I believeyou are both really onto something. As Manowar put it:
“Spock is half human, and so does have an emotional side that he controls/manages better as he matures. As shocking as those scenes were to me and most Trek fans, for me it was easy enough to accept.”
This is a case where one really does have to have seen most of the episodes of TOS’s first season, at least, to understand Mr Spock (no offense, Vee, I for one appreciate your objectivity, even in this case); he was indeed half human, and very sheepish about it too. When Kirk or McCoy would even mention it, he would respond with something like “I see no need to insult me, Captain/Doctor” (this attitude remained, even if only as tongue-in-cheek, as late as the rendezvous mission with Klingon Chancellor Gorgon prior to the Khittomer Summit [ST-VI/'The Undiscovered Country']), as if he were ashamed of his ‘half-breed’ status (remember the memory trick Kirk used to imprint his replicant as he was being duplicated by Dr Corby? “Mind your own business, Mr Spock! I’m sick of your half-breed interference!” – ‘What Are Little Girls Made Of?’, TOS), which he was most definitely NOT, but it did bug him, constantly.
Afterwards, when the Kirk-bot was revealed and Captain Kirk himself was freed, Spock raised an eyebrow to Kirk in private & asked “Captain…’half-breed’???” That cracked me up, because it was a rhetorical question – Spock knew why!
It helps to remember that, far from being a naturally logical race, the Vulcans, although gifted with an unusually clear, deductive mind, are nonetheless VERY highly emotional – that is why the great Vulcan messiah, Surak, was so determined to make peace, 1500 or so years before, to keep Vulcan from consuming itself in a global thermonuclear war. It is this very highly emotional nature of the Vulcans that made their embrace of logic and reason so central to their survival as a species.
Add to that an occasional non-Vulcan parent thrown into the mix (Spock’s mom Amanda Grayson, for example – also Lt Saavik’s (ST-II/’Wrath of Khan’) mother, who was Romulan), and it’s like throwing gasoline on an open fire.
Spock’s emotional behavior can be more easily observed in the TOS 2-part episode ‘Menagerie’, made from then-current footage with the established stars, plus spliced-in sequences from the original pilot, rejected by NBC as being “too cerebral”, ‘The Cage’, starring actor Jeffrey Hunter as Captain Christopher Pike, with Leonard Nimoy as Mr Spock as his Science Officer.
You should’ve seen Spock, facinated by a ‘singing plant’ on Talos IV, smiling, even laughing, at whatever took his fancy as a scientist. He was no stoic, unsmiling personality from Vulcan then.
Of course, the truth is that the character of Mr Spock was not exactly gelled, yet, hahaha! But you take my meaning. The usual route of someone in a ‘safe’ environment (the otherwise all-human crew of the Enterprise) would probably tend to be him/herself, unmindful of how easily a reputaion can be set in stone; afterwards, Spock likely would redouble his efforts to be ‘even more Vulcan than Vulcan’, so to say, just to prove that being part Human would be, if anythting, an enormous asset, even his greatest strength.
By being as Vulcan as possible, even with the failure of his ‘Kohlinaar’ ritual (good catch there, Vee), but instead accepting the highly charged emotional nature of his dual personality, he becomes a perfect model of self-discipline for both species – hell, all species. As Humans, we can be proud of him in that, as Vulcan as he is, he is nonetheless One Of Us, and that even pure-blood Vulcans – and indeed, all people, everywhere – can look up to him as a model and as an honorable example. Especially from the standpoint of friendship.
As Admiral Kirk himself said, choking back sobs, at Spock’s first funeral aborad the Enterprise:
“Of all the souls I have encountered in my travels, HIS was the most…Human…”
I cried too.
JOHN
@ Vee:
I have to agree with Fury 2701:
“I think Archer was a good character. He was just different than other captains that came after him. He was supposed to be naive, and full of wonder and flawed. Humanity at the time was supposed to be learning how to be part of the galactic community. He shouldn’t have been the polished diplomat that Picard was or the adventuous cowboy that Kirk was.”
While you may have something there about Archer, I have seen Scott Bakula in other things, such as the movie ‘Master of Illusion’, co-starring Kevin O’Connell and Famke Jansen, where he played the perfect private eye – just the kinda guy who could go digging for the truth, and wind up in bed with Famke Jansen! Not bad for a goob!
My point is, he pretty much filled whatever role he was in, for whatever it was, such as in ‘Quantum Leap’, just a few years before, where he essentially played a different personality every week.
As Captain Jonathan Archer, he represented the next generation after the Great Awakening (a term used in Star Trek canon), the discovery of the Vulcans as a friendly race (ST/’First Contact’), and his naivete, as you observed, was indicative of the attitudes of the People of Planet Earth, as a whole.
No offense, it’s up to you, Vee, but I think you should cut the guy some slack…for what it is worth, while I can understand the serie’s disappointing ratings and understand why it fell short of Trekkers’ expectations, I did not miss a single episode…
And when Abrams releases a sequel to this movie (not if, but WHEN), wild horses won’t keep me from seeing it!
JOHN