The Chicago Sun-Times recently spoke with the Iron Man star and managed to pry some details about the sequel to the hit film out of him; Movie Hole also asked Downey about Iron Man 2 and got more than they bargained for when the actor went on a tirade, slamming DC Comics and the runaway success of The Dark Knight.
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“You want some plot secrets? Okay, here we go,” Downey said in an interview [with The Chicago Sun-Times] this weekend. “If he said he’s Iron Man in the first film, it’s one thing to say it and another thing to evolve to a point where you can live in a heroic fashion.”
Downey added, “Our goal is also more of the same in ‘Iron Man 2.’ We want to do what worked for us last time. I’m talking about telling more of the story of a guy put in extraordinary circumstances who has a family now and he’s dealing with these forces. In ‘Iron Man 2,’ you will be able to understand various points of view about him that are far-reaching while this guy is still grounded in reality.”
Ok, so basically they’re taking the Christopher Nolan approach: using the continuity established in the first film to logically expand on the plot threads left hanging at the conclusion of the origin story. Not too original, but hey, if the wheel works so well why re-invent it, right?
Downey pretty much echoed his sentiments about IM2 in an interview with Movie Hole, adding that
It’s pretty great and I think it’s going to be cool… [Iron Man has] a very rich feel, because it was a very simple movie, if you ask me. It was an origin story.”
And that’s about when the daggers started flying:
“My whole thing is that that I saw ‘The Dark Knight’. I feel like I’m dumb because I feel like I don’t get how many things that are so smart…and I’m like, ‘That’s not my idea of what I want to see in a movie.’ I…still can’t tell you what happened in the movie, what happened to the character and in the end they need him to be a bad guy. I’m like, ‘I get it. This is so high brow and so f–king smart, I clearly need a college education to understand this movie.’ You know what? F–k DC comics. That’s all I have to say and that’s where I’m really coming from.”
Wow, tell us how you really feel Rob. (It may be time to start urine-testing this guy again.)
Seriously though, I don’t see why Downey is hating on TDK. Iron Man tore it up at the box office ($569 million worldwide as of today,) and basically put Downey back on Hollywood’s radar. What, did that stupid MTV movie award go to his head? Or maybe Marvel has a clause in their contracts which states that their stars have to bad-mouth DC whenever and wherever possible. Hell, maybe Downey is just doing his job
So what do YOU think about Robert Downey Jr.’s kind words for Iron Man 2? About his hateful words for The Dark Knight? You have my permission to sound off.
Source: The Chicago Sun-Times & Movie Hole
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184 Comments
Eh, I always thought he was kind of an @$$hol, so it doesn’t surprise me.
he should be happy with how well Ironman turned out. if IronMan 2 has a better bad guy I think it will do better. IronMonger was ok, but he was kinda weak as a enemy.
What a minute, did he just admit that he couldn’t understand a movie that my 10 year old brother in-law could? ouch… what a burn…. and on himself at that…
I thought he was a little more down to earth than that when he was clean. Sad to see he’s just another ego driven celeb.
Honestly, I think this is badass of Downey, I love the fact that he’s picking a side and is a Marvel homeboy now. He’s revving up the Marvel vs. DC Movie franchises and the hype, so good on him.
He’s doin it for the fans, and to rile people up.
It’s all just viral marketing,
@Rob, That makes a lot of sense because the content of his comments seem strange. Of course, anger can do that to ya…
Ha.. The next couple of years on-line are gonna be fun.
I’ll bet you dollars to donuts that Downey laughed after he said that (meant it as a joke), and it didn’t come across in the original interview.
Vic
Rob,
It’s badass to take a side, but not only was what he said a bit unprofessional– I’ll have to go with blipvert and say he just kinda made himself sound dumb.
I like RDJ, never really read any interviews and whatnot with him so I can’t get a big scope of his character ( in real life ) but the comment was misplaced. Not to say being an unprofessional idiot hasn’t worked for a lot of people;
On that note, f*** Marvel, hoo-rah DC.
Rev
“Ok, so basically they’re taking the Christopher Nolan approach: using the continuity established in the first film to logically expand on the plot threads left hanging at the conclusion of the origin story.”
So, we’re calling that the Christopher Nolan approach now? Like he was the first guy to do it?
Last I heard, the “approach” you describe is simply called doing a sequel. It’s not the universal method, but it’s certainly not uncommon.
To be honest, I like Iron Man better than Dark Knight. I kind of agree with what he said even if he was making a joke.
TDK was a well done movie, but I like my movies (comic book movies especially) to be more fun than TDK. I left Iron Man with a huge smile on my face because it had me laughing and smiling and just enjoying myself. TDK made me feel kind of bleh, I thought it was too serious of a movie (Why so serious, right?)
I am sure I will get crucified for my blasphemy but hey, I pay money for a good time at the movies, life is serious enough without my entertainment taking itself too seriously.
Flame on.
I’d give the benefit of the doubt and agree with Vic that this was said in mock seriousness.
However if it wasn’t I can tell you one name who won’t be considered for Batman’s next opponent.
I also found the end of TDK wanting. The whole Batman has to be bad, Two Face a martyr thing didn’t cut it for me. They also could have cut at least thirty minutes from the movie and it wouldn’t have been missed. A very good movie, but I’m not sure it’s a great one.
AHAHAHAhaaaaa….
RDJ rocks. Thats awesome. I love actors who are free enough to speak their mind.
Nice.
The first time I watched Dark Knight, I felt something was missing, but on second viewing, I didn’t have that feeling. I was able to understand the fast-moving events better and it felt like a better movie for that last half hour.
I disagree that there’s anything that could have been cut that also wouldn’t have affected the film’s point detrimentally.
Nolan’s Batman films have always been “about” things deeper than the surface. The first movie was all about the power of fear both in how it affects Bruce Wayne and how he uses it. The Dark Knight was all about rules and symbols. The test presented to those who must hold themselves to standards against those who have none and believe in none.
I loved Dark Knight so friggin much, but I was honestly a little more satisfied from Iron Man. I think now that it’s been 3-4 weeks and the redonkulous hype has simmered down, people are starting to realize TDK wasn’t the greatest thing ever, lol.
Anyone here see TDK more than once? The second time made me remember all the ordinary or not-good parts, most notably Batman’s voice and some of the plot points.
In Any case, the they’re the two best comic films and 2 of the best films of the year. It was a good year for the comic movie genre and us fans.
Shane, I’m not gonna flame ya because I kind of agree with you. I liked Iron Man more than TDK, too. I really enjoyed TDK, but it was too long and too serious; whereas IM was a fun ride from start to finish and had me wishing it wouldn’t end. A LITTLE more levity in TDK (besides Alfred’s lamborgine comment)would have made the movie better, IMO. Actually, I liked Batman Begins more than I did TDK.
As for RDJ….ROTFLMFAO!!!
Remember that through the ages, all health professionals have agreed about the difficulties of getting out of drugs.
LOL
Whos Robery Downey Jr,,,?
thats Tony Stark, talking !!!
I gotta say Kofi, you have a knack for photos. (Thats Downeys mug shot from years back). You bastard !!!
Shane, I agree, the dual boat scene is when i felt bleh.
Iron Man’s ablities are way cooler anyway.
I like this new smileyshade^
I found RDJ comments wonderfully refreshing coming from someone in PC Hollywood.Whats so wrong with someone speaking their mind?Why do we have to agree on everything?Why does he have to like TDK?A little rivalry will only cause everyone to bring their A-Game to the screen,so maybe it’s a good thing,I love it!
BTW Vic,I suspect you are right this was said more tongue and cheek than the article reveals and also more calculating than off the cuff,to put Marvel back in the mix since TDK is getting all the press at the moment.
Yes, TDK was wonderful, but not perfect, about 20 or 30 minutes could have been cut out, and im sorry but the ending was just crap. Iron Man came closer to perfection than TDK imo.
oh and i love actors who arent fake and speak their mind, RDJ is a very good actor and it looks like his bad times are behind him.
If this was just a Marvel vs. DC thing, I don’t get it. If anything, with the re-vamped Batman series excepted, DC hasn’t had much of anything over the last few years to celebrate, let alone anything good. If I were to expect any sour grapes, I’d expect it to come rather from the DC camp. Marvel has enjoyed a string of successes over the last few years and a couple of major ones this year alone.
I think I understand what RDJ’s saying…
As much as I LOVED ‘The Dark Knight’, I think it makes the mistake of looking down its nose at the DC Universe from which it originated. It’s not so much that it’s “too smart” - as RDJ seems to think - it’s that it actively seeks to isolate itself into such a realistic world of crime that A) you couldn’t possibly utilise around 75% of Batman’s classic rogues gallery, and B) the’ll have a hard time making Superman, Green Lantern, Flash, Wonder Woman and the Justice League make any sense in the same universe.
I’d love them to prove me wrong but - then - I’d love them to have made a great, smart comic book movie in the first place - rather than just a smart, great crime film.
I think you shot yourself in the foot by including ‘Temple Of Doom’ there.
Not with me… I liked that film… but the general credibility of comparing TDK and Temple Of Doom… ah… doesn’t really hold up.
hey i loved the dark knight as a film.
but i’m with robert D.JR,
I’m a die hard MARVEL comics fan.
i read them like crazy & im addicted to the “secret invasion” story line.
but comics alone MARVEL Befor DC.
Kane, I think the route to making the best Batman movie possible is to make it a great crime film. (Best in this case meaning most dramatic and engaging). The approach Nolan uses here, as Roger Ebert noted enables that level of engagement:
“It is customary in a comic book movie to maintain a certain knowing distance from the action, to view everything through a sophisticated screen. “The Dark Knight” slips around those defenses and engages us.”
It could have been more customary, more of a traditional comic book film adaptation, and it might have been more “fun” that way, but it wouldn’t have been as enjoyable (at least for me). We’ve seen that Batman before, and it served that purpose. It still exists on film for those who want that experience, but there’s enough range in the material to make a movie like this for a different, yet possibly even more satisfying experience.
Would this apply necessarily to other comic book characters? I’ll never say it’s impossible, but it would likely be more difficult.
I have to agree with both the “joking” and “appeasing the Marvel and DC fanboys in one fell swoop” theories. If he said nice things about TDK, people would call him soft.
Not disputing that… just saying it’s a film that will cause major headaches should Warner Bros attempt to link TDK to the wider universe (ala Marvel Studios plans).
A month ago, I’d have scoffed at any suggestion they’d want that… but I imagine the success of TDK makes it a virtual no-brainer in the eyes of Hollywood executives. Not to mention that success came around the same time as the much-touted “superhero summit” where DC and Warner reportedly hashed out long-term plans for their comic characters.
If they DO try working Nolan’s world into the other franchises, I hope they do it with some class and perhaps make Batman/Bruce Wayne our “rock” (so to speak) and have him as shocked by the new world as we would be if flying Kryptonians, Amazonian princesses and a glowing green police force powered by their rings suddenly appeared on the street.
Maybe the creators are smarter than I give them credit for… but remember: corporate greed over creative smarts is what led to Batman & Robin.
Heck… maybe the answer to finding a better Bat-adversary than The Joker (in light of Heath Ledger’s death) could be in a new Superman! Batman’s been painted as the murderer of the DA (likely creating a worse Gotham than ever) and giving an “in” to another hero to track him down.
Perhaps that could also answer the questions of how to make Superman “cool” again - put him in a dark and complex moral situation/place - and how to avoid the “third chapter syndrome”.
And the lead-up to Justice League could well be in the Brother Eye style device used in the end of TDK.
Crazy? Yeah… and I don’t even know if I’m being serious… but stranger things have happened. It’s all in the execution.
Kane,
No doubt the boom of high quality comic book films can’t last forever. I’ve at least heard that there’s a chance WB will actually give Nolan more creative leeway in light of this success, if and when he ever decides to cap off what could be the first trilogy to have no red-haired stepchildren.
I just don’t see Nolan or the actors in his Batman universe co-operating with a Justice League type deal. Bale at least will have had his fill of the character by then and will be looking forward to expanding his resume. The others will do likewise because let’s face it, Morgan Freeman, Michael Caine and Gary Oldman have better things to do than linger too long in one place.
WB will have to come up with an alternate plan for Justice League. I would suggest an animated film, because something like that can stand on it’s own apart from Nolan’s universe. Be it’s own thing.
Of course, I’ve never thought the idea of a Justice League was a natural fit for the big screen. Same for the Avengers on the Marvel side. Too much can go wrong with that many leads vying for part of the spotlight. Much better to just focus on creating individual, well-crafted stories for each individual hero.
I think I need to stop throwing ideas out there purely for thought/conversation, ‘cus I forget you only have this one moment to judge my points on.
Just for the record, I’ve been saying for a long time that a Nolan Batman would never work with Superman and/or the JLA. And I still think that (and therefore agree with you, jerseycajun).
But.
I do think the powers that be will try their darnedest to work TDK (and Batman Begins) into their plans if they can. So, with that in mind, it’s fun to think of how they could do it with class and intelligence… against all prior judgement.
I also used to think crossovers were a dangerous proposition… but, so far, it sounds like Marvel are going to make it work. You can have creativity and business at the same time - it just takes some very clever people.
I think if Nolan really wanted to introduce Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, or the Justice League, he could find a way to do it and make it plausible. People seem to forget that The Prestige involved the supernatural, so it’s not like Nolan isn’t familiar with it. I just don’t see how it would be possible under the scope of one film.
As to Jr. I’m just going to say: “Cocaine’s a hell of a drug.”
I kid.
He’s just bitter Ben Stiller’s nephew was right.
So “Watchmen” is basically DC’s superhero team movie. Unofficial reports were that the production companies had 200 million budgeted for JL. That seems a little shy for a Routh/Bale movie; Ignoring the other actors and the required additional costs those actors bring to the production, irrespective of those actors salaries. So maybe the reason JL is tabled isn’t story but money for a particular story.
Then again would Bale do a cameo for a few million? There are JL stories that have a wary Batman that won’t get involved beyond a financial commitment. While “Watchman” de constructs superhero mythology, a JL story could explore the limits of meta-power, ala a Justice Lords like story. Could complement “The Man Of Steel” movie as well. How many caught the easter egg in “I am Legend” where there’s a bill board in the background with Superman’s’ S over Batman’s’ bat symbol?
It’s a shame to see my respect for another star vanish. There was no need for this.
Sounds like IM2 will take a similar route to DK. I hope they do keep the same sort of magic as the 1st, but i doubt it if the ‘troubled hero’ is the story they want to tell.
Given all we have is a quote… without tone, context, yada, yada, yada… I don’t think anyone can claim to know just how serious RDJ was. I certainly would “lose respect” for him. Heck, for all we know, he had a few drinks and was having a laugh about his film being beaten at the box office.
I’ve been known to say less than polite things about George Lucas in my time but I’d hate to have cops arrive at my door arresting me for murder threats.
*Sheesh*
If RDJ finds the Dark Knight too highbrow, hate to think how he’d react to Memento!
Maybe it is all a setup. Next thing Bale will slag off Iron Man, and we’ll have the two sides baiting each other until their movies come out and we’re foaming at the mouth for them.
Wouldn’t surprise me if some jealousy was involved though. Great reviews of RDJ’s performance but not a whisper of an oscar.
**Quote”
“T. said,
August 13th, 2008
I also found the end of TDK wanting. The whole Batman has to be bad, Two Face a martyr thing didn’t cut it for me. They also could have cut at least thirty minutes from the movie and it wouldn’t have been missed. A very good movie, but I’m not sure it’s a great one. ”
————————————–
Wow. This is just how I feel about the TDK. I am not kidding.
Reverend,
what do you mean by unprofessional? This is a good thing man, something we rarely get from hollywood, honesty, humour rather than this media-trained repeated nonsense we get from pro athletes.
I think what you want is something we’d never be able to talk about on sites like this and things never to get excited about.
I would be equally excited if Bale came out and poked fun at marvel. It shows the actors are actually passionate about what they do, are honest, and love what this is all about.
If professionalism is avoiding this kinda light humour, appeasing the fans sort of this, then I don’t want any pros around, lol
oh, and you said it makes him look kinda dumb, I think it makes him look entirely the opposite and I think most others here would agree. It would be dumb of him to not take advantage of his position and this situation. I am entertained from this, I am excited more for what’s coming from this, and I give more props to RDJ because of this. More importantly, this just adds more fuel to the comicmovie train
quote
ppnkof said,
“TDK on the other hand ranks up there with Empire Strikes Back, Temple of Doom, Spider-Man 2, and The Two Towers,”
Seriously what are you smoking the two towers a couple or retards walking to get rid of a magic ring how exciting none of those films compare to empire strikes back.
DC suck in comparison to Marvel who have made the mistake with spider man and xmen but is still strong enough to work around not being able to make their own versions of there strongest and most watched heros
Marvel… What have they done again? Spidey 1, 2, X2, Iron Man? DC has just Bats Begins and TDK RIGHT NOW, but Watchmen is on the way, V for Vendetta deserves note and Bats 3 will be a smash. Green Lantern, Flash…. When DC gets going full swing Marvel will be running out of gas. Gonna be interesting to see what you have to say then. And to all you haters: $400+ million doesn’t lie. Men lie, women lie, numbers never lie.
Yeah! Numbers don’t lie! The Phantom Menace was a brilliant, well-crafted and solidly written film!
(The funny thing here is that people will presume I’m saying The Dark Knight is in some way like The Phantom Menace when actually I’m just mocking a single statement)
He was joking, even my little brother understood that.
@ppnkof
numbers lie dude tdk did good numbers because good advertising same way spidey 3 did and that films horrible but tdk is still doing good numbers partly because it’s a good film and partly because the imax thing where people are watching it twice cause 1st in normal cinema then in imax because of availability not saying it’s a bad film but marvel have better super heros and if they did spidey them selves without sonys involvement dc could not compare flash is a good one green lantern is ok superman what happened there the rest are like marvel rip offs look at marvel spidey, venom, wolverine, dead pool, hulk, and then the ultimate onslaught.
plus you watch some weird dudes walking a ring somewhere and liked it come on your easily please ha ha ha
“Yeah! Numbers don’t lie! The Phantom Menace was a brilliant, well-crafted and solidly written film!”
Rimshot! Bud-um-BUM.
Vic
btw kane nice comment phantom menace lol
Rob,
To avoid confrontation, I’ll just add:
1) Did you not read the last line of the comment? ( Which was so nicely edited, I forgot the site was PG-13 )
2) Never, on any level, assume you think you know what I want.
Rev
Downey received an Academy Award nomination and won the BAFTA (British Academy Award) Best Actor for his performance in the title role of Chaplin, released in 1992. Hes also a Golden Globe Winner.
I seriously doubt hes jelous.
@kobe
Could you please consider using punctuations the next time you post anywhere? Also it should be clear by now that DC always had better superheroes(the villains alone make DC more powerful) while Marvel had better storytellers which is why I’m more a Marvel fan. Also if you do a cross search based on the timelines of the superheroes/villains, you will find out that Marvel ripped off DC more on creating new characters to date.
The reason Marvel had better luck with the movies ’cause DC/Warner Bros. had been clueless until Nolan showed up and now they have a dilemma where two of the greatest superheroes of all time may never share a screen together-don’t think anyone cares at this point anyway. But then again I’d say Batman Begins and The Dark Knight combination alone holds the flag for DC higher than the critically successful(forget box-office) Marvel outings X-Men 1&2,Spiderman 2,Iron Man and The Incredible Hulk while there have been some ill conceived projects such as HULK,Daredevil,Electra,Punisher,X-Men 3, Spiderman 3 and The Fantastic Four movies. So there had been some hit and miss situations and it seemed like the fans were just happy to see their favourite superheroes on screen until Iron Man raised the bar for any further Marvel release. Robert Downey Jr. had every right to express himself like an egomaniacal jerk, I would’ve as well if my rivals came up with an instant classic!
Anyway it’s still Marvel’s 5 against DC’s 2.The saddest thing is that DC/Warner Bros are yet to come up with a plausible story for a Superman film since the original back in 1978.The revamped Batman franchise only made matters more complicated for them. Also their intention to adapt the OMAC storyline and NOT an origin story for the Justice League movie shows how “clueless” they are.
Risa,
I thought Superman 2 with General Zod was the best movie of the series with Chris Reeve. ALL the Supes movies since that one have been corny and/or sucked. Including Returns.
Superman 2 is a good one. Mind you, I still have an obsessio about the evil woman with the badge fetish.
Superior sequels - Mad Max 2, Evil Dead 2 and Terminator 2 (surprised not been mentioned already)
you need to go back to the dictionary and re-learn the meaning to opinion.
Guess we’ll be sharing that dictionary oscar!
I believe Robert is just jealous because of how well the film is doing. GET OVER IT!!! I am very glad it is doing so well. I hope it beats Titanic!!
no, i just forgot to put the words “the word” inbetween “to” and “opinion” lol
Hey Rev,
I totally understand, my post was more in jest about the whole RDJ situation. He’s quite a character. It’s pretty interesting with what’s going on nowadays with comic films being the biggest thing in the film industry. It’s pretty exciting.
But what is this stuff all about?:
“Never, on any level, assume you think you know what I want.”
If I read that word for word, and you actually do talk like that, then you really need to chillax (relax and chill) and not talk like that man.
Marvel, DC and all other comics FTW!
Is there a way to edit the posts on here? I went back to my comment only to find out that two of the words are missing in a sentence and sounds kinda weird:) Guess I should’ve proofread.
Sorry Risa, there isn’t. But I went in and added something to the end of your post which I think addresses what you’re referring to.
Commenters who care about the quality of their writing… I love it!
Vic
At first I was baffeled to see people liked Ironman more than TDK but then I realized some people don’t like to think or enjoy using their brain. Those are the type of people who would prefer Iron Man so it makes sense. TDK is a very serious movie that has depth and layers Ironman is a straight forward action film with laughs no thinking and no depth.It can appeal to a certain type.
ppnkof,numbers may never lie but they don’t tell the whole story either.I have went to theaters,paid my $8.50,excited to see Spidey 3,Superman Returns,and any of the Star Wars prequels left very disappointed.Sometimes we don’t get what we paid for.
BTW I understand that Hollywood is a business too.
@Daniel
Wow… that’s quite a statement, bud.
I’m pretty sure that at least some amount of brain power is involved in running this site and I enjoyed Iron Man more that TDK.
Vic
Impressive. My take on RDJ is justified on this thread
Attempting to get back on topic at this point is indeed fruitless, however, my attempt to do so should be noted for all….
hey Daniel, I’m finished my masters degree in 2 weeks. I prefer Ironman over TDK…
but in all seriousness man, its what you enjoy more, some of us enjoy ironman more because its a little lighter and little more funny. I loved both films and truth be told, I see every movie that comes out one way or another. I just prefer Ironman more after seeing both flicks more than once. Nothing in Ironman really bothered me at all whereas in batman there were little things here and there that did.
so I’m not categorizing viewers as ‘types’ is the correct analysis, lol. Lest I could type you as a batman fanboy which I know you’re not, lol.
What matters is both are incredible films and franchises, I’d like to compare Ironman 2 to Dark Knight and see what comes up with that.
*I’m not sure categorizing…*
I’d love to edit my posts too, I type too fast and miss words everywhere, let alone the typos
(Batman), has a cape, that he uses like a glider, and on bad days has to subcontract cargo planes to perform certain missions,,,
(Iron Man), has rocket boosters, and flys as fast as a Raptor jet,,,
(Batman), has all his gadjets made in China, and often dosnt read the manuals,,,
(Iron Man), designs all his gadjets himself, and there made in USA,,,
(Batman), lives in Gothem, a dark crime infested bastion of scum and villiany,,,
(Iron Man), lives in Malibu, with surfers and hot babes,,,
(Batman), wants a relationship,,,
(Iron Man), just wants to party and swing,,,
(Batman), is vulnerable to bullets and stabbing weapons,,,
(Iron Man), isnt, and has ballistic weapons in his suit,,,
(Batman), wants to keep his identity a secret,,,
(Iron Man), has a press conference just to tell everyone that he’s Iron Man,,,
(Batman), will stop at nothing to catch criminals, and then take them to jail,,,
(Iron Man), will just kill ya,,,
The winner!
Iron Man!!!
hahaha 790,
I guess from that perspective, I’d definatley choose the Stark Lifestyle!
Yeah I wish this Blackberry had a better spellcheck.
My spellinmg sucks most days.
And I teach 8th grade English !!
Lol just kidding.
I forgot to mention Iron Man has Jarvis, blutooth, where as Batman (im pretty sure uses Nextel,)
You also forgot to mention that Batman has to deal with the haunting memory of his parents being murdered infront of him when he was a kid while for Iron Man the closest to a haunting memory he would have to deal with is that he and his father might have slept with the same prostitute. Wait, let me put it delicately, they might’ve used the same escort service at some point:)
If people lining up for days to see The Phantom Menace makes that film a good one, please… someone stop the presses now… because it appears we have found unequivocal proof of psychic ability in human kind.
I understand why studios put such stock in first weekend grosses - it’s their job to look solely at the financials - but, c’mon… for a film fan to look at a gross and say “well, numbers never lie - it MUST be good” is just plain dumb.
As for the Iron Man vs. TDK battle… for me, it comes down to this: TDK is the superior film overall but which will I watch more in my lifetime for the pure fun and enjoyment of film? Iron Man, by a nose.
If that makes me unintelligent, so be it. Someone stop the presses once again, because the local university is giving out Film & TV degrees to idiots.
Kane for the win!
101% agreed (the extra 1 for your sweet name)
Meanwhile… I don’t think that guy saw Iron Man. Apparently it isn’t very haunting to watch your colleagues get blown up, be taken hostage yourself and then get beaten to a pulp while shards of metal make their way into your heart.
@ Kane
Exactly! I don’t know why would it be so hard for someone to comprehend that there is a clinical difference between critical and commercial success.
And yes, TDK was a far superior movie to Iron Man and as Kane stated, for “pure enjoyment” I’d pick the Iron Man DVD over TDK’s any day.
Well Kane, there is a difference between a young boy witnessing the murder of his parents and an over achieving playboy taken hostage. And yeah, hostages tend to get beaten up which in Tony Stark’s case proved to be a blessing.
I’ll always watch the fun movies more than the serious ones.
I’m a worshipper of Kurosawa and revere the Seven Samurai, yet watch it rarely.
Big Trouble in Little China or the3th Warrior on the other hand, I could watch again and again.
I expected the seriousness and darkness of TDK to affect the numbers going to see it, so that speaks well of it.
Lol Risa,,,
All Stark needed after his horrible hostage situation was a Whopper with Cheese, no mayo.
Hey Steven have you seen the Japanese sci-fi film, “Casshern”?
It’s a stupid debate to get into… but no one can compare the trauma of one person to that of another. An athlete who loses the use of his legs may well feel much the same sense of loss as a child whose best friend moves away. They didn’t execute it as fully as they may have with a more restrictive rating but I don’t think Tony Stark’s trauma is anything to scoff at. And the cheeseburger was just a way to lighten the mood in a film intended to be fun.
Anyway… like I said… it’s a stupid debate to begin with.
Thanks for proving my point 709 and Casshern was a visually stunning film by the way which didn’t really need any actor if you think of it. Great fun though!
Kane, it IS a stupid debate,which was why I replied to 709’s OP in that manner. He seemed to be building up a pointless comparison between Iron Man and Batman clearly based on the 3 movies only. You could compare TDK with Iron Man yes, but they are just two entirely different characters apart from the billionaire aspect.
Risa thanks I think,?
And its 790 gheesh.
@ 790
Sorry about that, I strictly blame the vodka
I haven’t seen Casshern. Heard about it, recognised the name instantly, but not got round to that one.
Lol Risa, yeah in a few more hours my excuse will be the light beer,,,
Yeah Steven, I saw it today New on dvd for 7 bucks. Looked interesting, ill give you a heads up when I watch it.
I got the unrated version , !!
Cool. Just had a look and saw it cheap, so will wait for the review.
Oh, and if you ever see a chance to get a Red Dwarf dvd, take it. Someone told me they were worth getting (I had all episodes on tape) and I bought the fourth series this week. I’ve forgotten how good this show was, with themes about lying being good, and what it is to achieve your dream, plus how much of a smeghead Rimmer is. I haven’t gone through all the special features, but the episodes were enough and the cast commentary was brilliant. All five (Charles, Barrie, Jules, Llewellyn and Hayridge) are on and very much enjoy making fun of each other.
Oops, got a bit sidetracked there.
It also has an amazing soundtrack which really suited the tone of the film.
Anyway mate I’m off to bed. It’s 3:15 in the morning here.So night.Have a good one.Later
Hope to see more of Risa,,,
^
Steven the Git ,,,
(Ill post my Casshern review on the next “Open Discussion”)
Yeah hey im glad you finnaly got those Steven. Yeah LEXX and Red Dwarf are my 2 favorite shows in the comedy sci-fi area. They really put alot of love into those DVDs. I have to express my thanks to BBC for making the hands down best tv series dvd collection since the Get Smart collection I picked up from Time-Life.
Steven try and find a Copy of Comic Book the Movie, on dvd !!!! Im trying to get Vic to watch it and I need a second review to tip the scales.
Really appreciate it. !!
Better than Doctor Who without a doubt, in my opinion.
Just had a look for that one. Not sure if can get it over here, will keep looking, but just by checking it out I’m won over. Looks my sort of movie. PLus, anything with Bruce Campbell in I’m a sucker for.
Thanks Steven I knew I could count on you ,,,
Yeah Im pretty sure it comes in a 2 disc set, (its an inside joke in the movie.)
Bruce Campbell has a cool role in the film, you will see what I mean,,,,
In the special features they show the entire interview with Bruce and its halarious.
“Downey received an Academy Award nomination and won the BAFTA (British Academy Award) Best Actor for his performance in the title role of Chaplin, released in 1992. Hes also a Golden Globe Winner.
I seriously doubt hes jelous.”
Also don’t forget to add how many rehab appointments he has won. You can never do enough justice to coke or heroin, right?
Well if you let his personal problems influence your opinion of him as an actor then yeah whatever. 789
Do you have a problem ???
yo 789, 790 and all other numbers out there,
RDJ won MTV movie award a few months back to, don’t forget that in your quabble
And for 789, what do you mean you can never do justice to drugs…what does that mean? Justice is not served on drug users? rehab works/doesn’t work? I don’t understand that phrase.
I’m with Kane. This is really a pointless debate. “My superhero is better than YOUR superhero!”
Come on guys, we were blessed with a couple of fantastic superhero movies this year, let’s be happy about that!
Comparing TDK and Iron Man is apples and oranges, they’re just not equivalent. They were both great but each on its own level.
Vic
Yeah, well their’s just one thing I want to know Vic and that’s just where Kofi’s DVD fight is gonna take place, in the microwave or on the tube??
@the old man
LOL, you’ll have to ask Kofi.
Vic
@Kane, if that’s not the point of the topic in the first place, then I submit that this whole conversation is pointless…. Either you defend RDJ’s comments, or not. I don’t.
A better comparison might be, how many parts he gets in the future that aren’t Iron Man, vs. Christian Bale, that aren’t Batman. I suspect Bale has a longer career ahead of him, while as we’ve discussed, RDJ’s best years are behind him.
Vic, you are with Kane?! Come one!!! I was the one who said that it was a pointless comparison! Anyway I’m a huge fan of both the characters and I can defend either one of them if I need to.
The debate you mentioned was actually about who had the most traumatic experience. I was just trying to point out that a ten year old(in this case a young Bruce Wayne) wouldn’t have the ability to deal with such trauma as well as a resourceful adult(Tony Stark).
@Risa
LOL, yeah I hear ya. It just kind of devolved.
Vic
Guys and gals, don’t be thick. Of course I know that commercial success is a superficial measurement of quality. But YOU need to realize that “QUALITY” in regards to art and entertainment is a relative term. Your Quality sure as hell isn’t the same as my kind of quality, in probably 9 out of 10 categories you could mention. So in that sense commercial success DOES play a role. Titanic is the best example: I HATE that movie, never saw it in theaters, and wanted the hours of my life back when it was done. But being a grown ass man, I had to admit that this was AMERICA, and though I thought the flick deserved a Razzie, A CONSIDERABLE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE DIFFERENT FROM ME FELT OTHERWISE. That’s what separates enlightened people from small people: consideration for what people who AREN’T YOU might feel or believe in. In America we believe in Democracy and majority rules. I hate Titanic, but to call it a “terrible film” implies that it has failed in its goal: to be a successful vehicle for people’s emotions and imaginations. The amount of people who saw the film and re-saw it CLEARLY indicates that Titanic’s intended goal as a piece of art was indeed reached. The film is still revered by many. Truly “Bad” films don’t earn Big office takes, because they fail in their intended artistic goals. TDK has not done that in any sense, while a fair number of non-fan boys agree that IM is a film that is basically RDJ sitting in a mechanic’s garage for 40+ min talking to himself with one truly cool F/X sequence (The Mid East) thrown in to get people in the theater.
Notice also, how TDK has become a phenomenon beyond the movie theater. I STILL hear people talking about the movie and not just the usual (that scene was badass! Or that was hilarious!); they discuss the moral and philosophical dilemmas raised about society and order–heady stuff you’d never expect certain corners of the population to discuss; but discussing it they are.
What the hell do people have to say about IM???? What greater point did the film make? ZIP-ZERO.
It’s the classic DC/MARVEL division: Marvel has always been successful with telling great comic book stories, full of pulp and fantasy and action; but all of their major characters are very allegorical and one-dimensional. Always have been. Spidey = Downtrodden Nerd boy gets to be the hero and get the girl; Hulk = Repressed, down-trodden nerd guy learns the cost of repression (and nuke power is dangerous!); X-men = “Hey Outsiders and minorities contribute to the good of society too!” (60’s hippie propaganda); Iron Man = Arms dealer nearly killed by own tech, decides to make amends. Yay.
DC, on the other hand, has always had a stable of major characters what I argue were ALWAYS too large to be contained by comic books. They’re psychologies are more complex (Batman could have been Freud’s only patient and the Dr. wouldn’t have figured him out) and the impact they’ve had as cultural icons has been more tremendous than any. Marvel. Character. Ever. (The Batman/Superman dichotomy is a bonafide psychological quandary now!)
It’s why DC has had more success in the animation field while Marvel has done better in comics. DC’s characters have graduated to the more complex storytelling medium of visual media. Marvel’s boys belong in kiddies comics.
NUFF SAID (no, really, this is like an essay, this all I just wrote. Crazy.)
ppnkof,
There’s been wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy more marvel films (featuring different characters) than DC films…so im not sure how that plays into your theory.
I dunno why you’re trying to label or differentiate the two, its all just your opinion.
You say dont be thick to everyone here, yet you got a pile of fully capitalized things in your post, you say comics from marvel are kiddie…and worse, your post is designed as a DC fanboy rant. lol.
Personally, I love the flicks from both publishers and I also enjoy the title character comics from both sides. Actually I just got a lot of comics from DC’s countdown and Marvel’s Astonishing X-men.
Hold on, I just re-read your post because I was confused.
You explained how you hate titanic but that it is unfair to say its a ‘terrible film’ which is clearly true. You also say:
“consideration for what people who AREN’T YOU might feel or believe in”
Then you go into this rant about how YOU hear people talking about TDK all the time…well can just as easily say that I hear people talking about Hulk and Ironman all the time, no one talking about TDK….Then you say “what the hell do people say about iron man?” You don’t know what people have to say about Iron man…You don’t….YOU don’t….you?
Are you for real man?
This is all your opinion and everything you say goes against what you started your post with. You list all your opinions of what the Marvel and DC things are and who they are good for using words like: kiddie, one-dimensional, allegorical
Dude, this is a huge case of hypocrisy.
You are not considering what other people like, feel, or think…you are literally only considering your own opinions, literally. You just took your own biased opinions (of something you personally like and feel) and tried to make it sound like that’s how the rest of the world should feel or think too…or that that is actually how the world is (*whispers* that’s only in your own mind, lol)
I actually own very few DC comics Rob, so you’re incorrect. I’m not a “fanboy” of any kind. I prefer having a life. It’s my separation from the comic material that keeps my objective. Marvel has more films, yes, but they’re just comic book fare, mostly cheesy stuff too. DC films have TRANSCENDED that genre, comics, to become CULTURAL ICONS. The Christopher Reeves Supmerman films (1&2) cultural icons. The Batman TV shows and films through the decades, CULTURAL ICONS. You let me know when Spidey’s CGI ass starts being used to represent America. As a comic lover, I’ve always been camp Marvel since the 70’s; as a tv/film lover, always camp DC. Deal.
hey bud, I’m glad you posted that response.
This run of Countdown will be the first DC comics I ever bought (I got a package deal with the astonishing X-men run). The only Marvel comics I have bought are these Joss Whedon Astonishing x-men titles. I have like 10 Marvel comics and some random superman comics from the early 90s that my mom bought for me as little toddler, heh. I just got back into comics beginning of this year so I won’t be buying any more other than astonishing. I read just the X-titles online but that’s all to the side.
I’m glad you’re not a “fanboy”, lol but your post as I said was designed as or sounded like a fanboy rant from DC’s side, and that’s how I worded it.
In any case, I really really wanted you to see that you kinda contradicted your opening because throughout the entire post you were imposing your opinions on Marvel and DC just after saying its wrong to call a film terrible if so many others like it (imposing an opinion).
But ya, sadly, alot of Marvel films have not been good. Ghostrider, Electra, Spidey 3, X3, daredevil, Nick Fury, Fantastic Four films (although I didn’t mind either), Ang Lee’s Hulk, etc. etc. but there are alot of bad DC films to, a couple of the batmans, the later superman films, catwoman… but that’s really all there is. If you look at a list of DC films, all there is, is swamp thing, batman and superman movies … that’s it. But at least we have Watchmen coming out.
Mike Shields: “Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists.”
;o)
Brilliant stuff here!!!I love RDJ’s attack on the Dark Knight which has fooled evryone into beleiving it is something more than it is!So what if it’s smashing box office records,it’s still crap and over-rated!
D.C were always no-where near Marvel when it came to making comics and now we can see it with the movies!Iron-Man was a far better fun/action/humour movie!
Since seeing TDK I have enjoyed watching Spider-Man 3 even-more,see I just take the approach that most of the critics have taken with TDK and ignore the flat boring bits with too many characters and villains and pretent that one of the actors in it died before it came out and there you go,as good a movie as you’re ever going to see!
lol Braveheart,
I really like TDK, but I friggin hate spidey 3 so I agree to a certain extent. TDK is overrated, I guess hype blinds.
I’d give it like an 8 or 8.5 out of 10, the more I think the lower it gets but its still fantastic. I much prefer Ironman, and I think that movie is better designed in that it opens and ends in a good way. I think TDK doesn’t in that aspect, but has higher quality production throughout. I attribute that to Favreau being relatively new and unexperienced coming in to this. I think Ironman 2, when it comes out should be compared to TDK. And I predict, it should absolutely destroy TDK in quality and hopefully, the cash INflow
i agree with rob the more i think about the film the more i dislike it, 1st time i watched it i thought it was a 9 now i would give it an 8. i don’t think its as clever as it wanted it to be, the film might as well have used morgan freeman for what he is best at which is narrating cause every character explains why they are doing what they are doing and what its supposed to mean. i thought clever films where ones that make you think for your self not the ones that tell you what to think but thats just my opinion.
@ de ron assis: Is it fair to compare “The Dark Knight”, a second act story with “Iron Man?” “Iron Man” is an origin story. The better question might be, viewed from Rob’s over all preferred theme Does “Iron Man” fit that as well as “Batman Begins?” Equal or worse?
Iron-Man was not well known to the main viewing public so could have been another Ghost Rider,but was a cool hit and gave the world another huge superhero to compete at the top,Batman is already an iconic hero and had all that hype surrounding the cast!Then they dreesed it up as something more than a superhero movie…that’s the crap part!I hated that whole bit with Morgan Freeman and that stupid sonar-Dare Devil rip off!This movie is everything I hate about critics jumping on band wagons,no-one wanting to step up and say that it ain’t that good and has lots of boring bits all the way through it’s “3″ hour running time!
to the old man
I didn’t say in that comment anything about iron man, I just said what I thought about tdk after watching it the second time. What you said about it being compared with batman begins was right and I personally prefer iron man.
TDK is a superior film. I’ll also always watch a great film over a fun film. Iron Man was cool it had an entertaining story so cool action and was pretty funny. However, it lacked depth of any kind everything was very much on the surface. TDK was about emotion and depth there was actually a meaningful plot. I’ll watch TDK a lot more than I’ll watch Iron Man.
I always prefer good film and lets face it the only reason I showed up to watch Iron Man was because I read the comics. I never showed up to watch transformers I refused to give it money I downloaded it for free watched it and try to avoid thinking about that mindless piece of garbage. Iron man is better than transformers but when you think about it they are pretty similar.
@ de ron assis: “I personally prefer iron man.”
Over “Batman Begins or “The Dark Knight” and why?
both, batman begins was good but but the ending was a bit too simple and i can hardly remember it, tdk i really wanted to like and i didn’t dislike it but the second time i watched it i realized i didn’t have to think at all because of the clever depth people keep talking about was not there, every character explained there thoughts and feelings like we are their therapist instead of just acting it out. they all made wicked characters and played the role well but they might as well have narrated the so called underlying meaning.
just my opinion btw i dont expect any one to agree
I agree De Ron Assis, TDK had alot of problems.
Were not all brainwashed here at Screen Rant,,,
It was a good film but ehh,, the viral marketing and Heaths death had a crapload to do with its success.
The film has major logic issues.
totally brainwashed!!!!
jk
I think RDJ hates the idea of people respecting him…….as soon as he gets any respect he jumps back on drugs or has to say something stupid……he is a self destructing time bomb……..I just hope he can keep it together long enough to get another great Ironman movie out…..am I the only one who caught the part about him having a family in the next movie?? Will there be an Ironkid?? Hey I got an idea!!! IronKid can battle SuperKid…..I don’t know maybe that was stupid, but I made myself laugh, so that has to count for something……right??
–Smitty–
holy crap. If he’s got a child, its all over.
Smitty, I just assumed he meant it as in realising he now had a bunch of loyal companions - the nearest thing Stark would ever get to a proper family. As Rob says, if he did mean an actual wife and kid(s) that would be a bit of a disaster.
So is it fair to say de ron assis that you think and feel that TDK was predigested for you?
Give Smitty a star..:)
no, just over thought or as i put it they over shot the run way, hope they make another 1 and they (dc and marvel) dont stop there but go for more comic book films cause its nice to have a big film event to look forward to and even better when we get a good film out of it.
id really like to see afro samuria by taretino and rodreguze but maybe thats just me?
Id really like for Afro Samurai to no longer exist and for Tarentino to stop makin films.
wow so much hate says alot about you
@de ron assis: So they didn’t produce it in a simplified form so that it was easy to understand, however you “didn’t have to think at all” and “every character explained there thoughts and feelings like we are their therapist instead of just acting it out.” Is that a fair assessment of your evaluation?
@Daniel Fenwick
Couldn’t agree more.