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Darron S says:

Hey kmad,

The wiki article I pulled the story from stated that the story came from a lecture Betrand Russell gave titled, “Why I’m Not A Christian”. So, I’m fairly certain the story is meant to be anti-creation. ;-)

Here are references if you want more info! Thanks for your thoughts!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_I_Am_Not_a_Christian

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtles_all_the_way_down

Cheers!

Screen Rant says:

“Vic, has this topic set the record for most comments on your site for a single topic?”

LOL, actually yes, I think it has. I believe the most prior to this was in the mid-70s. :-)

Vic

John "Kahless" Taylor says:

kmad,
I agree but we both are believers in God. Of course, the question an athiest, I’m sure, will ask: “Who created God?”. You and I know that God has existed and will exist eternally, that He was never created but the athiest cannot accept that explanation. For them, there must be some type of quantifiable data, some type of physical evidence, to prove or disprove an assertion.

I can look at a leaf on a tree and be certain in my mind that God exists because of this leaf. For me, life is evidence enough for the existence of God. I’m sure someday some very gifted scientist will come up with some theory about how life began from nothing (abiogenesis) but it will just be another theory.

Darron S says:

I’m sure someday some very gifted scientist will come up with some theory about how life began from nothing (abiogenesis) but it will just be another theory.

Interesting point there John. If future scientists are able to create life from non-life would that be interfering in the area religious folks view as reserved for god? Would using this knowledge be considered blasphemous?

790 says:

Darron, this post is the Big Bang theory! Lol.

Yeah I’m down with red_shift and all that but unfortunitly I don’t trust any new data from nasa or jpl for that matter.
Big bang theory is only a theory. One that I’m sure will be proven incorrect one day.
Cheers

T Edward says:

Viruses aren’t living organisms according to a large article in National Geographic, but fragments of nonliving DNA that just sit there until they happen to be introduced into a living host. Once there in the host, they can fit like a key into a cell, and start replicating as if they were alive (but only do so by utilizing the life activity of the host). It is like the virus has the necessary chemical composition to be caught up into to the cellular machinery of the body and replicate itself this way, again not as a living thing. Viruses are of an almost infinite variety and affect the body in myriad ways.
Therefore how can viruses ‘evolve’ since they are not living in the first place? Bacteria on the other hand are tiny living organisms.

Darron S says:

Yeah I’m down with red_shift and all that but unfortunitly I don’t trust any new data from nasa or jpl for that matter.
Big bang theory is only a theory. One that I’m sure will be proven incorrect one day.
Cheers

=( Is there some reason you don’t trust data from NASA and JPL? Do you feel the pictures and data sent back from Hubble, WMAP, Galileo, Cassini, and other space missions is bogus? That really makes me sad… It’s good to be skeptical, but what’s your reasoning for it? And have you actually looked at the data to understand what you’re skeptical about?

On the other side of that coin; I’m skeptical about religion because I spent 2/3 of my life in a religious household, so I know that drill very well. And I know how hard it is to break the mind free of religious indoctrination. I think I can put my awakening in religious terms for you:

When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. – Corinthians 13:11

Darron S says:

Therefore how can viruses ‘evolve’ since they are not living in the first place? Bacteria on the other hand are tiny living organisms.

Hey T Edward!

They evolve via updates to their genetic code? Isn’t that how we identify and control the virus? The strain changes due to environmental pressures. Certain strains get to replicate and spread when they come in contact with suitable hosts. I agree that virus’ ride the line between life and non-life, but evolutionary virology is a very active area of study in the scientific community, so I’d say emphatically, YES, virus’ can and do evolve. =)

T Edward says:

Darron: you have concluded it’s grown up and more mature to suppose that there is nothing greater, kinder and wiser than you in this vast universe, no One more intelligent that can trump you in power, and that humans or perhaps another alien clever race somewhere are the measure of all things? It’s somehow wise to believe that we are alone at the top?

To me that is the very height of pride and foolishness.

T Edward says:

And presumptiveness. There is no sign other than the rising of Christ from the dead, and the occasional reported miracle. We have a friend in God, in the heavens, we just know and do not need a sign. We know He will never leave or forsake us, nor will we forsake Him with his care. We saw Him in Jesus Christ.

T Edward says:

Christ who in His perfection is the Standard for our thoughts and our actions, the alternative to Whom is the eventual Hitlerian Abyss.

Darron S says:

Darron: you have concluded it’s grown up and more mature to suppose that there is nothing greater, kinder and wiser than you in this vast universe, no One more intelligent that can trump you in power, and that humans or perhaps another alien clever race somewhere are the measure of all things? It’s somehow wise to believe that we are alone at the top?

=( I never said any of those thigs you stated. I’m hopeful there is intelligent life out there in the universe and am eager for us to detect signs of that life! I’m also hopeful that we will find non-sentient life is abundance in the universe, maybe even in our own solar system! I simply do not accept the hyothesis that the creator of everything in the univese is a diety who revealed himself to some people in the desert a couple thousand years ago. It’s mythology, plain and simple. I’m sorry if that sounds harsh, but I can’t think of a more honest/polite way of expressing that particular view of mine. Cheerio!

Darron S says:

Christ who in His perfection is the Standard for our thoughts and our actions, the alternative to Whom is the eventual Hitlerian Abyss.

Really? Then what did people do for the thousands of years of recorded human history before your god? I hear those Egyptians had a pretty good civilization. You wouldn’t say the Greeks, upon whom we base Democracy, were in the “Hitlerian Abyss” would you? Many European countries are mostly atheistic and I don’t see them dropping into chaos and debauchery any moreso than what we see here in the U.S.A. Cheers!

kmad says:

John KT,

Brothers as you say. But part of my point is that it’s not true science if it is all data and falls apart at the point of reason/logic. At that point, theist or atheist is living in denial. You have to have an epistomolical reference point (such as reason and logic) or it’s a big basket of numbers sitting on the ground in front of an elephant. He’s almost infinitely more likely to sniff it and sit on it as he is to draw any scientific conclusions from it.

John "Kahless" Taylor says:

If future scientists are able to create life from non-life would that be interfering in the area religious folks view as reserved for god? Would using this knowledge be considered blasphemous?

Not sure. I would have to look at the data and find out exactly how they did this.

kmad says:

“If future scientists are able to create life from non-life would that be interfering in the area religious folks view as reserved for god? Would using this knowledge be considered blasphemous?”

From a theist point of view, truth is never blasphemous since God owns all truth (he made it how it is), so if we could do that (create something from nothing), that would be an ability, a gift he gave us.

However, having said that, I don’t have to tell you how unlikely in the extreme something from nothing is. In 4.5 billion years (or whatever the number is), we’ve never even touched anything remote to it. We always start with some raw material(s).

Screen Rant says:

T Edward,

Now it’s time to give you a mild warning as well. You’re starting to step over the line, bro.

Take it easy – nothing will be solved or resolved concerning this issue on a movie review page. :-)

Vic

kmad says:

“Vic, has this topic set the record for most comments on your site for a single topic?”
LOL, actually yes, I think it has. I believe the most prior to this was in the mid-70s. :-)
Vic”

Just let me say as someone new here, I’ve thoroughly enjoyed this. Thanks Vic for keeping it honest, open and polite.

Screen Rant says:

Darron, I know all about the indoctrination thing. I was raised Catholic and there were a few incidents that turned me away from God for over 20 years (no, not what you’re thinking). I never became athiest, always agnostic, so I can relate to what you’re saying.

That’s why I returned as a non-denominational Protestant, where it’s all about Christ and the bible and not any rules, regulations or hierarchies.

Best,

Vic

790 says:

Oh yes Darron, I don’t trust nasa. “Never A Strait Answer” or the neo-nazis at jpl.
^
Read about all the lies they tell. At.

http://www.enterprisemisson.com

Screen Rant says:

“Thanks Vic for keeping it honest, open and polite.”

No problem. I believe that we should all be as polite to each other online as we would be face to face.

Now go explore more of the site and tell your friends what an awesome place it is so they all become regular visitors. ;-)

Vic

790 says:

Has anyone here considered that alien life could also come from within the Earth?

There’s alot of room down there…..

John "Kahless" Taylor says:

kmad,
I hear ya. I suppose that’s why scientists call them theories, not facts. But there are many Christians who, for some reason or another, still believe that the universe is only about 7,000 years old (because of the literal interpretation of Genesis), despite the facts. So it would seem that illogic comes from both sides.

790 says:

Yeah John there allready proving that the earth is older then 7000 years.
There was a story not too long ago about a mining company that was exploring deep underground and they found some type of cell_phone looking device.

I believe our species has risen and fallen more than once.

John "Kahless" Taylor says:

790, you’re pulling my leg, right?

790 says:

Nope, I don’t remember where I read that but it was presented as a true story. Of course it quickly vanished from any headlines.

One thing, (I know alot of people find hard to concieve) the truth is often covered up. Supposedly the Egyptians have discovered the Hall Of Records in the right paw of the Sphynx. Do you see any headlines on that.

Nope its surpressed.
Like alot of data on where we come from.

John "Kahless" Taylor says:

I remember an episode of the Outer Limits where a ship had created a tear in the fabric of space and when an object entered this tear, it appeared lightyears away in a matter of minutes. The ship entered this tear and was in an area outside of space where the background was luminescent and particles of gravity would crush you if your shields failed. It turns out that this area they were in was the body of some being and our space was it’s skin.

Could this be what the universe really is? Could we be microbes on the skin of a gigantic being?

Flint says:

The movie would be perhaps more compelling if any of the allegations it makes were in fact the case. But of course they are not. Sternberg, Gonzalez, et. al. did NOT lose their positions for their religious beliefs (but, being creationists, they have no compunctions about bearing false witness if they are Lying For Jesus. Of course, Stein carefully never mentions what DID happen to these people, trusting that movie reviewers would not bother to do their homework and look it up).

Darwin did NOT influence Hitler. Believers in ID are NOT expelled or rejected for their faith. There is in fact no ID science or research of any kind, and never has been. There is no “ID theory” because theories are based on evidence and there is no ID evidence. Most opponents of ID in fact have moral standards as high as anyone else’s. And so on and on and on.

And this is the basic problem with the film: It’s not just that the propaganda techniques are dishonest, the very points those techniques are used to make are themselves dishonest.

(And ironically, the entire purpose of “intelligent design” is to repackage creationism in an effort to get religion past the courts and into science classes. The pretense is that it’s not about religion. The Big Lie is that anyone who understands that science rests on evidence is *necessarily* “against God”.)

790 says:

Hey Darron, hope your checking out that site.

There’s even an article up there that shows what looks like a robot head that was found on the surface of the Moon.

There’s a lot of “data” that’s not being reported in the media.

clint says:

Human Brain. I read that, “after thousands of years of speculation and recent decades of intensive scientific research, our brains, along with the universe, remain essentially mysterious.

It appears to me that what makes the human truly unique compared to animals is his brain, not his body.

What do you think?

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