So while Lexi may be a brilliant director with a talent for inspiring artists to work hard for her vision, I think she is probably very protective of that vision and tends to butt heads with people who might threaten it. The 2002 Oscar-nominated film she directed before PWZ, “Johnny Flynton”, was a 20-minute independent film she had great control over. She co-wrote, directed, and executive produced 2005’s feature-length “Hooligans”, scrapping with her co-writer along the way. But with PWZ she was suddenly working with a big Hollywood studio that was undergoing change.
I believe that LGF greenlit PWZ, Lexi delivered, and LGF was mostly pleased with her April 1 screening, as Lexi reported in her blog — and then the “Midnight Meat Train” (MMT) business began affecting things. Peter Block, who was in charge when both MMT & PWZ were greenlit, left LGF in November 2007 and Joe Drake replaced him. Both MMT and PWZ are bloody, violent, hard-R films based on properties with existing NICHE audiences. Given how Drake shuffled around MMT’s release date and then “dumped” it into only 100 backwater dollar theaters with plans for a quick DVD release, I can imagine producer Gale Anne Hurd became concerned and wanted to save PWZ from MMT’s fate, so she brought in the Hulk (2008) editors to make Lexi’s cut more mainstream, as reported by FilmSchoolRejects’ source. I believe the UGO rumor that LGF clashed with Lexi over her publishing unapproved publicity materials to her blog. I believe the FilmSchoolRejects rumor that Lexi’s first trailer cut wasn’t liked by LGF, so I’m thinking they cut a new one and released that in early June, since Lexi’s blog made a point of mentioning she was surprised by it, alarming some that all may not be well. LGF did sack Lexi’s chosen composer (Christopher Franke, who had scored both “Johnny Flynton” and “Hooligans”; Charlie Clouser was briefly reported to have come on board, then Michael Wandmacher). [Considering what Lionsgate did to Midnight Meat Train I can understand some alarm on Gale Anne Hurd's part. - Vic]
I suspect Lexi was more than simply frustrated by LGF’s tightening control over post-production. She had 6 months to prepare for July’s Comic-Con, the US’s #1 comic book film promotion event, so she would have had to be EXTREMELY pissed off to schedule her honeymoon during it. All of this is consistent with the FilmSchoolRejects and UGO rumors, which agree with each other that Lexi was unusually difficult and unpredictable for a Hollywood director, and that LGF limited her post-production involvement (but did not fire her). FilmSchoolRejects’ source also later called bulls*** on LatinoReview’s PG-13 rating rumor and confirmed the film will remain rated-R, which cinematographer Steve Gainer also later confirmed.
So PWZ’s July 24 2008 Comic-Con panel was conspicuously missing the film’s own director, and Gale announced Lexi was on her honeymoon. Then “frustrated” long-time LGF insider “Jigsaw” contacted AICN a day later to say Lexi wasn’t on her honeymoon — she was FIRED along with her composer and couldn’t talk because of a “non-disclosure clause”. He was probably (misguidedly?) trying to pressure LGF to restore Lexi’s involvement and save PWZ from a crap hard-rock soundtrack. [Which was the background music for the most recent restricted trailer. - Vic] I think Lexi took advantage of the controversy to let her feelings be known when that very day she removed all mention of PWZ from her blog and replaced it with a picture of the see/hear/speak no evil monkeys. Surely she was aware of the rumor and the message that picture would send (”if I can’t speak, I’ll say it with a picture!”). I can’t imagine LGF demanded she remove all the good publicity she had generated for PWZ with her blog; she started it only after beginning work on PWZ and mentioned Lionsgate controlling what she could divulge. If Lionsgate asked her not to speak further on PWZ there, it would have been simple enough to not touch the archives and quietly comply in the future. Even if Lionsgate DID ask her to remove all mention of PWZ, it would have been easy for Lexi to replace it with a message like “Lionsgate wishes to control publicity about PWZ now and has asked me to remove everything related to it.” So there is perhaps truth to the FilmSchoolRejects rumor that Lexi is “childish” and “erratic” and UGO’s rumor that she was a “Jekyll/Hyde” sort who resented LGF’s “censorship”. [I think that Hollywood directors are starting to leverage the power of the online movie community to influence things in their direction. Jon Favreau dabbled in a bit of this with the stories that he had not been contacted to direct Iron Man 2 a couple of months ago. - Vic]
Because Marvel fans seem to live on the Internet, Lexi’s blog worked wonders in garnering their support. I can sympathize with her frustration with LGF, but her unprofessional blog stunt fanned a s***storm that eventually only served to torpedo PWZ’s image and, oddly enough, stroke Lexi’s ego — Punisher fansites lit up with “Bring Lexi Back” campaigns including a petition and a devoted website (GPA’s pwztruth), the latter attacking Gale Anne Hurd as a no-talent butcher of Lexi’s film. Quite honestly all of this is futile, since Lexi’s further involvement is self-limited because she’s already working on a new project per her own blog! It’s the very rare director who gets final cut anyway. [I commented here on the site that any attacks on Hurd where no doubt COMPLETELY unjustified. - Vic]
Regardless of Lexi’s further involvement, I believe Lionsgate is doing its best to deliver a compromise that will please both hardcore Punisher fans and general action fans; the shooting script was good; Lexi’s vision was strong and her footage looks great; it’s still a bloody violent hard-R (verified publicly by Steve); and it’s got a composed score as the film deserves and not a thrashing hard-rock soundtrack (verified privately by Gale). [The soundtrack news is certainly good! When I heard the music layered over that last trailer I almost decided right there I wouldn't even bother seeing the film. - Vic]
I will say that with Lexi’s blog now silent on PWZ, LGF needs to get correct information out and turn around the damage that was done. The bottom line: if Punisher fans can get past the misperceptions and rumors, they’ve still got plenty of reason to look forward to PWZ. [Agree completely. Why isn't Lionsgate doing "official" damage control? - Vic]
So that’s my take. Hope it helps, and share as you like.
**************************************************************
Again, from Nomad:
This may make things a bit more clear if you’ve any question. Just note who contacted whom and that may clarify what their motivations were. Here’s a complete timeline:
(Click to continue reading “The Real Punisher War Zone Story”)
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61 Comments
Hi Ken,
I agree with you about the super power thing. Frank is my fave because, when all is said and done, he’s just a man. But what a man! Do you think part of wehat keeps The Punisher from being really popular (besides the two bad films we’ve already had) is the level of violence? I say that only about the MAX series, because that’s the only series I’ve read. The earlier versions of The Punisher, ther ones where he wears tights and white boots and gloves, does NOT interest me. Anyway, a Batman movie can get away with being PG-13. To me, a Punisher movie will always have to be rated R.
Hey Nomad, glad to see you’re still reading through our stupid comments, haha.
I never understood comic books’ obsession with tights. I’m glad Lexi decided to make Ray Stevenson wear body armor painted with the skull instead of just some tight shirt (or worse, spandex tights). It shows how human he really is, that he needs to be protected from enemy fire. And it adds a sense of realism in a movie full of outrageous action scenes.
But you’re definitely right about the ratings. For a Punisher movie to be true to the comics (MAX series mostly, that’s what I’m familiar with too), it has to be rated R. Coming from me, that’s quite a statement, because all of my friends know that I’m 100% against movies that try to use sex, foul language, and excessive violence as a gimmick to draw viewers. But if it’s actually necessary in the telling of the story, then I have no problem with it.
Oops, I meant to say “And you’re definitely right about the ratings.” not “but” because I was never disagreeing with you before that in that post, lol. I just read it and realized how it sounds…
I love how the GPA has become the devil in this battle. We spoke our mind. Funny not one internet rag site bothered to ask any of us what we were doing or why. Sorry you didnt like our tatics. The time line sounds pretty good in this story. But it smells of positive spin, just like the last thing steve gainer said.
I don’t believe my post had much in there about the GPA, much less did it make you out to be the villains. Actually, I thought you got away without much of a mention at all, which surprised me when I first read it. Let’s not fight, Sugar. I promise you that civility works better than incivility, unless you’re Frank Castle. But he’s a special case.
Watch out for tha Warriors !!
Finally some clarification.
thanx,cant wait for this film.
@GPA
Hey bro, I’ve never even heard of “GPA” until your comment here, so I’m not sure what you’re referring to…
Vic
It’s the Global Punisher Army. They have a very interesting and attractive website celebrating all things Punisher. They have one section that is devoted to this film and trying to get Lexi Alexander’s vision out there. I agree wholeheartedly with the goal, but not with some of their methodology. In any case, the part of the site I and others objected to is gone. I think, after reading my friend’s report, that the Lexi version is lost to us as far as the theatrical release is concerned. Hopefully, we’ll get it on Bly-ray in a director’s cut. OOF! I can’t wait to see both versions!
If you’re a Punisher fan, you should definitely visit the site.
I just think those of us who’ve been waiting through several movies would like to see a good Punisher in theaters, not a watered down, half-hearted version. I don’t know why anybody has written it off already, unless the Punisher isn’t really their thing.
Nomad, is this new film going to be an Origin story or take off from the last film ?????
Rampage-
You do make a point. Why would Drake permit all this bad publicity if he weren’t thinking about dumping the film? It would certainly make him look justified later! But . . . on IMDB someone pointed out that LG’s The Midnight Meat Train was competition for a film Drake produced (The Strangers) so that’s why he dumped it. If there is ANY truth to that, then that would bode WELL for Punisher, wouldn’t it? At least we’d know Drake isn’t dumping ALL of his predecessor’s films out of spite.
All of the bad publicity simply begs the question of who was actually benefiting from it? Either Drake or . . . Alexander. It would seem she and the fans are the only ones even paying attention to the internet. If you think about it, the only time insiders get frustrated and angry enough to contact the media is when they want to put pressure on someone who isn’t otherwise listening. The only remotely credible insiders did it twice. Once when Lexi was fired and the movie was supposedly to get a metal soundtrack, and the other when the film supposedly got a PG-13 rating. And the updates made to IMDB, apparently NOT by LionsGate, were about the film’s running time and the composer, both of which turned out to be false and both of which lent credibility to the theory that Hurd was butchering Lexi’s film.
So I simply don’t buy that LionsGate is manipulating the online public in order to get their opinions on soundtracks and running times and ratings. The only thing which would consistently explain everything is that Alexander got either fired or pulled off the project and has been cleverly manipulating people in order to pressure LG to reinstate her. After all, the rumors only began after Alexander was fired. Unfortunately they have only eroded faith in the film.
I guess fans can go on believing that their outcry has actually influenced Lionsgate to ditch the PG-13 rating and the rock soundtrack, or they can believe that those things were never on the agenda to begin with and they’ve simply been manipulated by someone whose methods have damaged the very film they want to save!
Whatever. I just want it all the garbage to stop, and give me a good movie!!!!!!
GPA owenstar said “But it smells of positive spin, just like the last thing steve gainer said.” Got to agree with that!
Punisher War Zone is a total reboot, a total re-imagining, from the last two films. It assumes that the audience for the most part knows the origin story, but there are flashbacks of Frank, in the park, holding the bodies of his children. So people new to the Punisher will have SOME clue as to WHY Frank Castle would choose the life he’s chosen.
Like Nomad said complete reboot. Not even gonna feature the same origin or lead actor or really much of the same emotion. The 04 version tried to balance the violence with an emotional plot this version will try to balance Violence with Violence and a flashback of an emotional moment then they may add in some violence and gore.
Think Saw but with the Punisher in it.
Well, I don’t know if I agree with Daniel’s conclusion at all. We’ll just have to wait until 05 December to find out.
Sounds good, I might have to check this out after all,,,
wow this was alot to read but well worth it. i happen to be a huge punisher fan and collector. i’ve been punishing pretty much since the mid 1980’s and have had to go through two punisher films that just did not live up to the comic and the stories themselves just did not work for even a non comic film. i just hope that i can finally watch a punisher film that i can brag about later to all my friends since i’ve had to go through two huge raggings from the previous films.
I think the Tom Jane version balanced violence with boring, but the scale tipped a bit more toward the boring side…
I’m sorry, I normally don’t like movies with violence for violence sake, but this is The Punisher for goodness sakes. He don’t waste his time plotting some overly complicated scheme that greatly relied on chance before he strikes at his victim. He doesn’t spend half the freakin movie fixing up a car that only lasts half a minute in one lousy excuse of an action scene. He is THE PUNISHER. I didn’t see any “punishment” in the last movie except to my wallet when I paid for the ticket.
Nomad,
Maybe I read it wrong, but I didn’t think the part that said GPA came from you….I thought it was part of the insider scoop….
I respect what you have tried to do….even if I don’t always agree with your insider! Hahaha
Vic,
I am just disappointed no one bothered to ask before they slammed (not saying it happened here) just in general….
We did something pretty amazing…..
Vic the GPA was mentioned in the article you printed, ha ha!
“Because Marvel fans seem to live on the Internet, Lexi’s blog worked wonders in garnering their support. I can sympathize with her frustration with LGF, but her unprofessional blog stunt fanned a s***storm that eventually only served to torpedo PWZ’s image and, oddly enough, stroke Lexi’s ego — Punisher fansites lit up with “Bring Lexi Back” campaigns including a petition and a devoted website (GPA’s pwztruth), the latter attacking Gale Anne Hurd as a no-talent butcher of Lexi’s film. ”
I don’t think he’s saying GPA is the devil.. he’s just saying it was never gonna acomplish anything
GPA owenstar, your with GPA. waht did you acomplisH? Tell the other side of the story
AHAHAHAHAHA! Cank Frastle! [rofl]
Nomad
I’m curious to know why her co-writer on Hooligans popped up with such an obvious attack. What’s that all about?
KJ I think the Hooligans cowriter popped up cuz the crew member had been gushing about the director and that burned the cowriter who strongly disagreed
Nomad thanks I thought it was funny
Cank,
I didnt say here we were called devils….We have been slammed across the web….Some people didnt like the way we did things….didnt see it through our eyes….and thats fine, I understand we arent for everyone….But we have a right to do it as we see fit…and we had reason, even when it seemed we were crazy a-holes…hahhaha
I am not gonna tell the story on a blog…check out our site and ask there….no one bothered to ask what our grassroot movement was doing, why bother giving them a story now???
Good day my friend
Thanks for the info cank.
Wow, I’m sad to hear so many people talking so negatively about a metal soundtrack. I think the music was what helped make the new red band footage so awesome. But I happen to be a fan of rock and think it helps out an a violent action flick, and I know a lot of people disagree with that.
Zach, it can and it doesn’t. It really depends. Rock music can definitely add to the mood of the scene if that’s what it calls for, but to have an entire movie’s soundtrack consist of nothing but screaming black metal gets very old very fast and has been done so many times before because it seems like the easy way out.
I’m torn with the soundtrack. I love rock music and I have no problem with it being featured in a film however at the same time there is something to be said about a fantastic score. How terrible would it have been to give TDK a rock soundtrack ? Punisher in my opinion is one of those films that could honestly work either way. I think the best way to work it would make a blend of both some scene add a score sometimes put in a little rock. There really isn’t much debate though when it comes to CD soundtracks a rock CD will sell for more than a score one.
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