There’s a movie that seems to be in the early stages of causing an uproar over a racial issue. Apparently in this movie, someone of one race will be wearing realistic makeup to make the character seem like he is of a completely different race.
Besides the obvious outcry that this is demeaning, is the accusation that work has been taken away from someone of the target race who could just as easily have been hired to play the part in the film.
If you’re curious about what I’m talking about, see below.
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The African American Wayans Brothers play two white woman in White Chicks
I can totally see the outrage over this, I mean with all the white, young blonde actresses trying to get a break in Hollywood, how could these guys possibly be so racist as to take work away from who could be the next two big starlets of Tinseltown? I mean… um, what?… You mean this isn’t all about White Chicks? There was no outcry over the race reversal in that movie?
Oh… sorry. My bad.
I guess the worry is about a different movie. This summer another comedy movie using the cross-race gag will be coming out: Tropic Thunder. In this movie Robert Downey Jr will play a white man playing a black man in a movie within the movie (got that?).
Robert Downey Jr. plays a black man in Tropic Thunder
From what I’ve read, the comedic part of Downey Jr.’s role depends upon the fact that he is a white guy playing a black man, much as the humor in White Chicks was supposed to come from a couple of black men playing white blonde women.
According to Entertainment Weekly:
“Robert Downey Jr. plays Kirk Lazarus, a very serious Oscar-winning actor cast in the most expensive Vietnam War film ever. Problem is, Lazarus’s character, Sgt. Osiris, was originally written as black. So Lazarus decides to dye his skin and play Osiris, um, authentically.”
Here’s the picture that started the whole thing:
The movie has nothing to do with finding humor in racial stereotypes, rather the goal (which I’m 100% behind) was to poke fun at pampered Hollywood stars by having the director of the film within the film drop them into a live war zone in Vietnam so they could get a taste of real hardship.
I’ll fess up right here and tell you that before I knew that this was the plot of the film, I had been offended by the trailer. I thought that it was portraying a band of actual soldiers as “wacky guys” in the middle of the conflict. But now that I know the context, it does indeed look like it may be pretty damned funny.
If you want to see the “red band” trailer (for language), you’ll need to provide age verification information over at the official website.
Personally I think any racist accusations raised against this film in the media will be from the usual bunch of attention-hungry talking heads that pop up at every opportunity.
Tropic Thunder opens on August 15th and stars Ben Stiller, Jack Black & Robert Downey Jr.
Source: EW via First Showing
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71 Comments
Honestly I don’t think there will be a problem with it. He’s not gonna be running around screaming “Yes masa,” or “Help me mammy” or whatever racial black face stereotype.
The movie does look like it’ll be good, plus, it’s Robert Downey Jr. the man’s got charisma.
How about Eddie Murphy playing an old white man in the excellent Coming To America? Or Eddie Murphy going undercover as a white man for Saturday Night Live? Both classic cases of just having fun, both some of the funniest films or TV moments from Murphy’s career. (He was ROBBED at last year’s Oscars!!)
heath
Typical nonsense, the usual double standard. It’s the same thing with black comedians ripping on white people, total acceptable, but lets see a white comedian tear into black people and listen to the out-cry. Eddie Murphy has made a career out of playing stereotypes for humor and no one says a word. Whether they be fat, white, Jewish, Asian, whatever, he has done it all and nothing is said.
I think everyone’s jumping the gun here. I’ve not read or heard any type of complaints about this.
I have yet to hear of anyone actually being offended; I think it’s more people worrying that people might be offended, for whatever reason.
For an actor like RDJ, who’s just starting to revitalize his career, to do an offensive role would be suicide. He knows that. I trust his judgment.
I think the most offensive part of the whole thing is the Wikipedia page for Tropic Thunder, which says “test screenings for African-American audiences have been positive.” Well that obviously makes it okay!
In other news, black RDJ looks frighteningly like Don Cheadle.
Well unless you follow movie news specifically, people in general haven’t heard this story yet. Here’s one early example already:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/showbiz/showbiznews.html?in_article_id=528496&in_page_id=1773
General discussion on the topic:
http://www.blackentertainmentblog.com/2008/03/is-robert-downey-jr-funny-as-african.html
Plus a number of other incidental mentions of it. I’m sure as the movie debut approaches and the mainstream media gets a hint about this we’ll be seeing a lot more idiotic debate about it.
Vic
Liz,
Don Cheadle! lol
What bothered ME about the Wikipedia article is how it stated that a black actor was considered first for the role and then the script was re-written for a white actor… with NO reference given as a source.
The problem with Wikipedia is that ANYONE can edit ANY article. I don’t know why people consider it such an authoritative source.
Vic
It’s considered a valid source precisely BECAUSE anyone can edit it. Occasionally misinformation does fall through the cracks, but with all the citations it’s a great source to find things out. You just have to be careful to separate the wheat from the chaff, and most of the untrue things get edited out by the Wikinerds pretty quickly.
I’ve just always found it funny how any member of a minority is considered to be a representative sample. I once used the word “disabled” in an anthropology class discussion, and people were offended until I said I had disabled friends who used the term themselves…then it was magically okay. Buh?
He doesn’t even look black to me, he kind of looks like my uncle (im latino). As far as the “public outcry” I haven’t seen or read anything on the subject.
And to the person who mentioned Eddie Murphey and his characters, he actually was criticised for his asian and big momma character in Norbit so black people aren’t immune to such backlash.
Hmmm…as an African American, the film or RDJ’s role doesn’t offend me. What “does” offend me is the ignorance of “some” (I said SOME) of these comments here. Should I say I’m used to it? I never “will” be.
I avoided Norbit like the plague! FWIW, when I went back to college, all our professors warned us against putting Wikipedia as our source.
heath
Heath – there’s really no need to cite it as a source, since it typically has a massive footnote section of reliable sources. I never understood why people would take the lazy way out.
MBL – Anyone in particular you want to call out? It doesn’t seem fair to make a comment like that without pointing out who you think is ignorant. Educate us!
Liz, the professors warned us because there can be a lot of misinformation put up there. I write for a few publications, both online and print, and I wouldn’t be caught dead citing Wikipedia. I can get a general idea there, but I usually find major sources.
Trust me, I do go to Wikipedia, but like I said, I find other sources.
heath
Heath -
That’s what I was saying – refer to the sources at the bottom, don’t quote the page itself. I used it as an aggregate of information but I always checked the sources for whatever I wanted to refer to. I don’t get why people would quote the actual page when the format makes it incredibly easy to click on the footnote and find the source.
Liz,
And my point (again) was that they made a statement in the entry that I haven’t seen anywhere else and there was no source stated for it. That smells strongly like editorializing to me at best.
Vic
No, I get that there are unsourced statements on there. They shouldn’t be taken seriously, clearly, until someone can find a citation.
I’m just defending the sourced statements on Wikipedia, which is 99% of them.
Liz,
I shouldn’t have to educate anyone here. If you’re oblivious to a few statements, blame “your” educator. I don’t pretend to be one. Also, life’s never fair.
MBL -
Okay. I just thought it might be nice if you said something more than “lots of people here are ignorant, bye.” That doesn’t really help anyone.
Also I’m not sure that quote marks mean what you think they mean…?
*lol*
Oh, so you’re just trolling. Sorry, I thought there was the potential for an actual discussion here.
Back to the movie!
You’re right Liz. I’m feeding the trolls. My bad.
Back to the movie!
If I’m doing a term paper or writing a posted article, I’d go straight to sources.
But, I usually go to Wikipedia for a thumbnail sketch with an detail options. Otherwise, I’d have to trudge through adoring/flaming fan sites where they
a) assume I’m ga-ga over the character,
b) discuss the nuances of his bio,
c) get into minutia such as which version of the comic character is better, the Alternate Universe 17 black alcoholic version with the Mach 3 armor and the authentic grey uniform with the bio web shooters, or the Post Cataclysmic Conflict caucasian bisexual version with the webs under the armpits and the logo real prominent on the belt and the stainless steel nipples.
More Wikipedia please!
I’m kinda pissed that RDJ isn’t allready shooting scenes for Iron Man 2. Let’s go. Get that thing moving!!!
I’m also shocked at how White Jack Black looks in that shot.
Whatca going to do about it, ya know? This kinda stuff always happens (Comedy; Stand up as well. Is number 1 on that list) Theres always people looking to start stuff. It’s absured.
People need to get a life and stop worry about senseless crap like a White Man Portraying a black man “OH NO! YOU CANT DO THAT!” Urgh, whatever
The thing you all have to realize is that white men painting themselves up to portray black men has history behind it. It’s called a Minstrel Show. I suggest you all watch a Spike Lee (I can hear the shuddering from here) film called “Bamboozled”. Totally underrated and quite educational.
As a Black man I am not offended by Robert’s role, in fact I find it rather interesting. Also, White Chicks sucked badly. I couldn’t even get through 10 minutes.
I just wish people would be more understanding, it seems like some White people will take shots at Black people because they feel vocally “oppressed” in their everyday lives, but hey, I love everyone. No problems here.
Brad -
I think people are pretty aware of blackface and minstrel shows; the terms have been thrown around quite a bit since these pictures surfaced. But there is quite a difference between this and traditional blackface, which I think should be obvious to the casual observer.
I believe that, as a culture, we are ready to move on from some of these relics of our past. A white actor can be made up to look black without it being a callback to derogatory minstrel shows. People have different skin colors and facial features; as long as we understand these distinctions for the superficial things they are, there’s nothing wrong with recognizing them.
Liz-
I agree that we should be ready to move on. I am tired of all this talk of “race relations.” We’re only one race, the human race.
Now, it seems like some people want Blacks to just totally forget the past. When I bring up discrimination and how it still affects today, I’m not talking just about slavery, I’m talking about Jim Crow. My mother experienced this era first hand.
When she was a young girl she wanted to go to an ice cream parlor but, was told it was a “White Establishment.” She was even spit on. It’s going to be terribly hard for her to forget or even forgive these things but, we have to move on if we intend to survive as a people.
The reason why I am looking forward to seeing Robert in action is because the makeup is pretty good! It’s not offensive at all, none of the features are exaggerated or contorted in a freakish way. I am actually quite excited about this one!
Ths film is a comedy right.
This is no different then what Travolta did in Hairspray or Mike Myers in Austin Powers.
Just a gag for laughs.
Brad -
You’re absolutely right. I think we are really, really close to completely moving on from racism as a culture. Kids today likely wouldn’t have any concept of why it could be offensive for a white man to pretend to be black, because it’s all just skin color. We’re one step closer.
I was attending Bellevue Community College during a slight scandal that involved a teacher writing a test question about Condaleeza Rice and a watermelon. Half of the teen-something and 20-something students in one of my classes didn’t have any concept of that stereotype when we discussed it. The teacher had to explain the whole thing, and they thought it was the most ridiculous thing they had ever heard. I thought it was an encouraging sign.
790 -
That’s the proper way to look at it, for sure. I trust today’s audiences to see it that way instead of making it a race issue.
Brad,
Great comments. I do think there is a difference between “not forgetting the past” and “dwelling on the past.”
You’re right, Jim Crow is a lot more recent than slavery and anyone who was directly affected by those days certainly has a reason to be bitter. I just don’t agree with bringing up race every time there is some perceived slight.
IMHO types like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson help perpetuate the division by constantly bringing our attention back to the differences and playing the blame game instead of taking the road that Bill Cosby has and saying that we are all responsible for ourselves.
Anti-Christians still bring up the Catholic Crusades as an argument against Christianity today, which I also find ludicrous.
Vic
Vic-
Thanks, that means a lot! I am a happy-go-lucky type of guy so maybe I have an advantage over a lot of people. I just don’t spend a lot of time thinking about things that don’t really matter.
Bill Cosby was 100% and I have a feeling he wasn’t just talking about Black people. Personal responsibility is something most kids of any race lack these days.
I must admit, I have used that crusade argument now and then. I’m not just anti-Christian, I’m anti-religion. With 11,000 distinct religious beliefs on earth and even more distinct and complex denominations of each, everyone thinks they’re right and everyone else is wrong….but let’s not get into that! I respect anyone’s personal beliefs beliefs. If it helps you get through the day that’s fine, as long as you do not try to implement them in a government environment.
Again, thank you for your kind words!
I think the important thing here is that we all agree “White Chicks” sucked because it wasn’t funny…
Regarding the crusades, I think it’s a bit of a different issue than race discrimination. Christians are a self-identified group of people and much easier to blame for iniquities of the past than…whoever you might view as being responsible for slavery now. White people? Americans? The descendants of slave owners? None of these people choose to be any of these things, like Christians do.
Granted, modern Christians are no more responsible for the Crusades than modern white people are responsible for slavery. But many modern Christians (not just in radical groups) still defend the crusades. This includes the appropriately-named Campus Crusade for Christ, a massive group of religious college students in which I was once involved.
I know these comments have become completely derailed at this point, but it’s such an interesting discussion I can’t help myself.
Brad,
Yeah, absolution of personal responsibility is a disease that seems to be affecting EVERYONE these days.
And Liz, I don’t defend the Crusades except as far as the purpose behind them was to stop Muslims at the time from converting Europe to Islam by the sword, which is something that I rarely hear mentioned.
I’m sure there were political and other motivations besides that one and that I don’t agree with at all. Let’s not even talk about the inquisition…
Vic
I don’t agree that racial distinctions are merely superficial. They are cultural and innate. If not, the world would be all one cuisine, one culture, one boring place.
There really are overbearing jewish mothers (Everybody loves Raymond).
There are indeed loudmouthed pushy blacks (Starkisha [Finesse] from SNL).
There are myopic white bigots
(Archie Bunker)…
and hot blooded italians, drunk irishmen, lazy latinos…bleeding heart liberals and cold blooded republicans…
Not to mention internet geeks who need to “get a life.” ( I don’t agree that racial distinctions are merely superficial. They are cultural and innate. If not, the world would be all one cuisine, one culture, one boring place.
There really are overbearing jewish mothers (Everybody loves Raymond).
There are indeed loudmouthed pushy blacks (Starkisha [Finesse] from SNL).
There are myopic white bigots
(Archie Bunker)…
and hot blooded italians, drunk irishmen, lazy latinos…bleeding heart liberals and cold blooded republicans…
Not to mention internet geeks who need to “get a life.” ( <–that would be me)
I’ve given up making everybody happy about race. Why should I, when there’s so much to laugh at?
***Edit
Not to mention internet geeks who need to “get a life” (that would be me)
Jim, of course all stereotypes come from somewhere, but we shouldn’t let the minority (of any group) define the majority.
I think I’m about done talking about this, although I’ve been impressed with the civility of this thread.
We’ve got good visitors here!
Vic
Sci-fi internet geeks rule!!
“Sci-fi internet geeks rule!!”
At least in “World of Warcraft.” lol
Vic
Aaahhh
I should have said sci-fi tv, and film geeks rule.
“World of Warcraft” is not worthy.
“Sci-fi internet geeks rule!!”
Are you talking to me? Are you talking to ME?
Didn’t mean to cast aspersions. I’ll get even by casting Annette into the sea.
Hey there goes another one, “hold your fire, there’s no lifeforms aboard”….
The whole wikipedia thing is a bit of a joke- that’s why I cant believe the co-writer of The Passion of The Christ is using it as a source in his lawsuit against Mel Gibson- see this :
http://screenrant.com/archives/hollywood-a-town-called-sue-1366.html
Niall
Love the sarcastic reference to “White Chicks”.
Anyone pulling double standards needs to dig back to the movie “Watermelon Man” it did a great job of showcasing racial stereotype as well. All within intelligent limits.
Wow! I’ve never seen a discussion on this topic that has been soo civil. Bravo guys!
Brad,
You sound like a guy I used to work with when I worked for the government. His name was also Brad. Did you ever work at the National Imagery and Mapping Agency?
While I agree that race relations are better, we have a long way to go. Not too long ago, in Luoisville, KY., I was walking down the street going to a friends house. A white woman on the other side of the street looked at me and ran away. I turned to see why she was running and found nothing. Today, people have confessed to me that I frightened them when I wore my scully, shades, and black leather jacket; I laughed because I am 6′1”, black with a van-dyke, and weigh over 300 pounds. My son says I would be a perfect bouncer, as long as I don’t talk (he says I sound white, whatever that means LOL). As long as we have men and women who commit crimes instead of being lawful members of society, these stereotypes will always exist.
I did not hear any outcries when “Soul Man” came out, so why this film. These are comedies, not some movie on the social problems of the world.
As a Black man I just cant stop laughing at these photos. They’re so damn hilarious. Whoever gets offended by this humor should examine their priorities. I mean really, if you read the plot, you have to say, it’s rather innovative.
Who cares! Lets worry about who is pulling the strings for Obama and McCain. Ahh… who cares about that too
Ooh oooh South Park is on
lol…. Are you serious??… Am Black and I think Robert Downey Jr. is just being funny, besides i don’t feel offended and I shouldn’t think you should either ….
And am gonna be lined up 2 see that MOVIE!!!
It looks like it will be a very entertaining film. I am a black woman and see nothing wrong with either Eddie Murphy playing a an old white man or RDJ playing a black man. They are actors and that’s their job and it also makes us…the human race take a closer look at ourselves and we see that everybody no matter what is somebody. And we get to analize sterotypes and rise above them and even laugh at them.
This film is yet another racist attack on the people of Africa. There is nothing funny about this.
http://truthfirstnow.blogspot.com
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