Open Discussion - September 3, 2008

So…most of us know DC’s gonna take a ‘Darker tone’ with the superman reboot. Much like they did with Batman.

I really think this could work because superman comics themselves are often surprisingly dark and mature e.g. Superman: Rebirth.

Also people said Batman would never work as a ‘Dark’, ‘Gritty’ film, but that was because the majority of the public still view Batman as the ‘Camp’ superhero of yore.

So…my question is what do you guys think they could change/improve/incorporate to make the superman reboot a whole lot more mature?

Vic,
I know that these sites receive revenue from posting the ads for various products/movies on their site, but sometimes the ads you have make it hard to view your content. The drop down ones especially. Otherwise, everything else is great.

Just reread Watchmen again..Excellent piece of modern literature..

@ 790…Dude did you read it yet? If not what are you waiting for..the movie?

I also read Infinite Crisis by DC( bought a graphic novel version) and was disappointed by how childish they made Superboy Prime…If he had been portrayed as insane like in the last few pages of the story it would have been much better..

Is it just me but I think the Flash and especially Green Lantern are DC’s Iron Man projects that will be big blockbusters if done properly…I think GL has so much potential to be the next big thing for WB and DC..

Hey I got a few weeks of comments to catch up on…

JEREMY IRONS!!!
JUST SAW HIM IN THE TIME MACHINE REMAKE AND WITH THE MAKE-UP HE HAD ON HE PROVES TO ME WHAT I ALREADY THOUGHT…THAT HE WOULD MAKE AN ALMOST PERFECT FRANKENSTIEN MONSTER,HIS BONE STRUCTURE IS ALMOST THE SPITTING IMAGE OF KARLOFFS CLASSIC!!!
THE BEST BIT ABOUT VANHELSING WAS THE BLACK & WHITE BIT AT THE START!IF UNIVERSAL HAD ANY SENSE THEY’D REMAKE A BLACK/WHITE VERSION OF THE CLASSIC!!
JUST A THOUGHT!
ROCK-ON!!

Thanks KEL…Great looking images there!

CHeers

Sidenote: There is ‘expanding ads on this site’.

‘Ant-Man’ in the Avengers…

What do you think about that? Furthermore what do you think about him having a stand alone movie? I’ve never met an Ant-Man fan….

Wouldn’t you guys excuse Marvel ‘from forgetting about him’ during this Avengers build up so that we can focus on Iron Man, Hulk, Captain America and Thor? I think Ant-Man will add a sense of childishness to the whole franchise and I definitely view it as a mistake.

Sometimes I think you can honor source material by acknowleding the fact that not everything can work on film.

Iron Man - AWSOME!
The Incredible Hulk - AWSOME!
Thor - EH…
Captain America - Can be good.
Ant-Man - WTF? Might as well throw in the Wasp (practically tinker bell).

I don’t know, I’m a fan boy and a film student so these past few years, ever since ‘Blade’ hit the multiplex, my screen dreams have been comming true but I just can’t see Ant-Man working…?

Anybody else?

Kalibur

Never liked the Ant-Man but was a big fan of the Yellow Jacket character. Wasp is the tinker bell of the Marvel universe but she was Pym’s moral compass. He wasn’t a bad guy in the seventies and early eighties in the comics until they turned him into a major AH by writing him as an abuser of his wife…

High Kalibur,
you have now officially met an Ant Man fan !
and I have no problem having the Wasp in an Avengers film.

Sorry about that Gary we won’t forget ya.. .. next time..

Gary / Greenknight,

At last, other opinions!

I think that focusing on, advancing and creating a superlative unity between Iron Man, The Hulk, Thor and Captain America on screen in a feature length film is an extraordinary feat in and of itself, I think, and this is my opinion, that Ant-Man will detract seriousness from the entire production and yes it is a superhero film but we still want to take it serious in a ‘what if’ fashion.

I think the majority of Marvel fans could care less about Ant-Man and if he’s not in it, I think the Avengers movie could be better.

Oh yeah Vic, I’m just saying that their isn’t much interaction or posting happening during this ‘open discussion’ that’s all. I was hoping their would be a lot more film buffs, with varying oppinions posting that’s all.

While I’m at it… that article was removed from the headlines.

It is ill-informed to say that Spider-Man The Animated Series is ‘bland’. That is an untasteful opinion, not shared by the majority of anybody and the success of the show dictates otherwise.

Yeah, I am a fan, so I take offense when people that are suppose to be ‘writing professionally’ allow their own opinions to confuse factual statements.

Lol,,,
You sound like you want your money back High Kalibur.
Gheeshh kabob.

So AntMan,,, can’t he grow to full size ?

Yeah Ant man can grow to normal size
Henry pym has also been known as Goliath (Giant size)and Yellowjacket
He has been known to use hisshrink powers in that alter ego its done through chemicals io believe at least it was in the 60s .(avenger experts be kind.) there is also Scott Lang as Ant Man .
I dont know hich chracter is part of the up coming film .

For those of you interested in Depp as the Riddler in the Dark Night Returns check out the link..

http://www.slashfilm.com/2008/08/31/johnny-depp-on-riddler-casting-rumors-itd-be-a-fun-gig/

Cheers

GreenKhight333 is Back !!!
No I havnt read Watchmen yet Greenknight333,,, I guess that’s looking more like the only option for now. Lol. I prob will pick up a copy of the graphic book soon.

High Kalibur,,,
No I havnt watched DD yet,,, might be a few days on that.

lol, well 39 posts on the first day of OD, is pretty good. The colume will be up til next wednesday so the discussion never ends. (See how it works now).

Gary, so AntMan can assume full size,,, then there’s no prob getting him in Avengers. Should be a cool character.

Hey since everyone is into the Iron Monger bit I want to see Tony Starks much lesser known FIRST super hero persona…not the Mach I but the Cast Iron Frying Pan Man and his arch nemesis Eutectic Alloy Man…..I think he would do massive box office..probably in just France and Italy but hey since Hollywood is out of original ideas why not…

Look for Cast Iron Frying Pan Man in theaters in May 2010 with cameos from Wolfgang Puck and of course THE IRON CHEF !!

Can’t wait for this one ~~~This is sarcasm~~~

Go beyond N.G. perhaps explore the temporal cold war. I would also consider a story about an expedition to another galaxy. It would involve a >N.G. future Enterprise crew arriving at some planet to assist star fleet launch the first intergalactic ship. The real story is of course about people, the intergalactic ship would just act as the framework for the story.

excuse me that would be extragalactic space ship.

Well we know that the Expanse kept growing until the Federation had to wage war with the Sphere builders.
I believe that took place WAY past TNG timeline,,,
I’m not trying to talk you out of your idea,,, it sounds good but I’ve seen every Enterprise episode and I know that road… And it never really happened because Archer changed the future. So pardoxically it might exsist in a fractored universe. ?

The entire Enterprise season 3 story arc was awesome btw.

Strange New Worlds is a Cronicle novel of fan written Star Trek storys. They usually choose 3 or 4 stories from each Star Trek show and there’s also a Specluation group in some of the later volumes.

Vic,

I’m talking Spider-Man: The Animated Series from 1994… If you think it was lousy that’s fine, that’s the beauty of individuality.

What I’m saying is that ‘bland’ & ‘lousy’ was not how it was recieved by audiences and in contrary to that article’s statement, it was very successful. Like I said, your ‘editorial opinions’ are unfounded, not supported by fact and not shared by many but whatever.

You’re probably old. : )

And yeah, Spidey TAS was definitely geared toward the kiddies unlike Batman TAS which had a very mature element and even X-Men TAS was a step up in terms of maturity.

What were some of your favorite cartoons?

Spider-Man TAS was awesome! Not the best but awesome.

““Spider-Man (also known as Spider-Man: The Animated Series) is an American animated television series featuring the Marvel Comics superhero Spider-Man, which ran for five seasons (65 episodes) starting November 19, 1994 and finishing January 31, 1998. The producer/story editor was John Semper, Jr. and production company was the Marvel Productions. Reruns can currently be seen on Toon Disney. The show is generally considered by fans to be the most ‘true to source’ Spider-man media adaptation in terms of atmosphere, visuals and characters.”

Five seasons… uh that seems pretty successful… lets read on…

“This show is the second longest-running Marvel show created—after X-Men which lasted for six years—lasting five seasons and 76 episodes.”

I’d say it it safe to say Marvel has had success with Animation and that Spidey TAS was not ‘bland’ but the best of any animated incarnation the character has recieved. Most fans would agree.

Don’t diss the show just because you wern’t a fan or to hype up a story.”

Lol, High Kalibur,,, but I’m glad Vic dosnt cover Spider Man animation from 94,,,
(Piece of advice)
don’t expect everyone to have the same tastes and appreciation for animation that you do,,,
And really Bud, you owe Vic some respect, so please show it a little,,, thanks.

Vic,

I hate to break it you: Spider-Man: The Animated Series being successful is not an opinion. It either was or wasn’t successful and the FACT is that it was. You don’t like it, fine, it was still successful.

fact 1. Something that actually exists; reality; truth

opinion 1. A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof

The success of Spidey TAS is fact.

You, or the other guy finding it ‘bland’ is an opinion.

I don’t expect yall to admit that you’re wrong so don’t worry about it but I’m sure you’ll keep posting about it to get the last word. Have fun.

So Spider Man Animated Series 1994, is the deal breaker for you, High Kalibur,,,,?

Sheesh bro, who knew ???
Rock on,,,,
8-)

790,

Yeah haha I guess it struck a cord. Haha. I grew up on Spidey man. TAS was great!

Ghost Rider I tried to like it, I really did .
I liked parts of it .
I really hope its a stronger story .

oh noes, not a GhostRider 2

Box office failure, I call it now. There’s no way alot of people will see it after being fooled by the first one. What a horrible flick, haha. 790, I don’t know how you can like it, lol.

Oh and Greenknight felt the same way about you with Trek. He wanted future but I think i convinced him otherwise in that thread a month or two ago.

As for Depp as the riddler, it almost seems like they have to have some huge A-list star as the villain the next flick. Its the only way to top the Joker. And who better to play a crazy villain than johnny Depp, lol. It almost seems to obvious a choice, who knows what Nolan will do, or what villains will be included.

Sorry to come in on something that was mentioned so early on, but I’ve turned up late.

The only movie that tried to do Mary Shelley’s Frankenstein properly was the one with Branagh and De Niro. Never properly watched it, but I do remember it not being well received.
But do agree, like the idea of Irons as the monster. Big and scary coupled with intelligence and bitterness of soul.

As for Spiderman, I thought that version was cool, but that’s just my opinion.

Yup, special effects doesn’t mean magic. Personally I’ve always prefered the old school effects. If they redid the Thing with CGI, it would be flat.
Compare Yoda in the originals to the prequels too.

Also agree on Kong. I was very unimpressed with the remake.

Old Man, here’s my brief Star Trek 11 “incomplete” treatment. I wrote this 4 years ago,,,
There’s prob spelling and grammer probs.

Star Trek Collective,,,
takes place 1 year after Nemesis,,,,
Section 31, Star Fleets covert black ops division is running secret weapons tests in deep space,,, these weapons are based on the (Voyager Endgame ship)*

*Voyager was rushed into a underground hanger on Earth when it returned from the Delta Quad.
S.31 had a duplicate Intrepid class ship painted with Voyagers markings ready to present to the public for homecoming events. The crew was debrifed and this was to stay “top secret.”

Meanwhile, unknown to Section 31, the Romulans are watching the weapon testing by means of a new undetectable cloaking device that they can also fire from while cloaked.

In deep space,,,
Deep Space 46, has detected a micro wormhole, randomly forming and deforming,,,,, USS Titan is the nearest starfleet vessel, its sent to check it out.
Peace talks break out between the Federation and the Romulans,,,,
After the Shinzon incident, the Romulans, are willing to finally come to the table and make peace. There is one Romulan that declares that all secret weapon programs be unveiled for the benifit of peace and the new alliance.
The Federation agrees to a military exchange of technology to seal the treaty and end the years of turmoil between the two races.

Meanwhile in deep space, the USS Titan has arrived near DS46,,,
The micro-wormhole has the crew stumped ,,, on the other side of the Wormhole we see a Mirror version of the Borg,
The Mirror Borg have constructed a huge temporal device they intend to use to resupply the Borg in our Universe.

(The Borg were essentally wiped out during the Voyager incident,,, we learn that the Borg are the same “basically” in all mulitverse’s, their goal of perfection is total Multiverse assimalation)

USS Titan, finds out the Borg are behind the wormhole, but before they can stop it the Borg manage to send an Armada of ships thru….
Cont,,,

While both sides scramble to protect old war secrets the galaxy faces a New Stronger Borg threat.
The Romulans and Federation must team up,and to defeat the New Borg Threat, using the high tech weapons from the future,,,
Section 31 and the Obsidian Order, work together for the first time to defeat the New Borg once and for all.

There’s alot I left out but that’s the general concept.

Star Trek /// Collective

Geez Kalibur is like a dog with a bone with Spiderman TAS…I personally loved it and I am “old” if you consider Vic to be “old”…

Actually, Steven the git i’ve seen that remake and it wasn’t an exact rendering.

Thanks Old Man,,,
Its wide open to
Characters,,,
If I was casting the film I would try to bring in Tim Russ, Brent Spiner, Pat Stewart, Jeri Ryan, Johnathen Frakes, Kate Mulgrew and even Avery Brooks.

Since part of the story takes place in the mirror universe you could do alot with characters.

There’s a 7th season Next Generation episode that touchs on this story, the episode is called, “Parallels”,,,
In the episode there’s a spatial breach that allows many copies of the Enterprise to come into the same point in space.

When they find a way to close the breach, one Enterprise dosnt want to go back because his entire multiverse is all Borg…

Rob! Any feedback?

We are the Borg in a cultural sense and that identity has shifted throughout history.

What if the Borg shows up wanting to join the Federation, additionally claiming to have reached perfection.

WE’re perfect, technology is irrelevant
! We now wish to serve!

Well do they push you beyond where you think a story can go?

The borg were amazing when they were first introduced in TNG. They were dark and scary.

Then Voyager made them colourful (wayy to much green), small and weak. What a waste of the greatest villain species in Trek

790, those ideas you put above, I’d definately be in on that. However, you’d only make 2 million at the box office…or less. Only people who have watched all these series would see that. You’d have to already be a Trek fan. And after the last two flicks, even alot of them wouldn’t go.

back to what I was saying in the other thread, the new Trek flick is aimed at targeting everyone, you dont have to be a follower of the series’ to understand and enjoy. I’m not exaggerating when I say, none of my family or friends would go to see that type of movie. And I’m not sure how that storyline can turn into more movies or another TV series eventually. It would not re-kindle the star trek franchise.

I know why you and me like it, because we know and like those characters and would like to see them back. But JJ is making an epic flick to again, appeal to EVERYONE as a summer blockbuster, not a little niche straight-to-DVD rental.

It comes down to, which do you think would honestly sell more? which would bring in more non-fans? Your idea doesn’t address any of the concerns why all the previous movies sucked.

Like I said in the other thread, JJ’s flick is doing everything right, its making the ship a massive powerful thing, as opposed to one of many slick colourful things that just blow up instantly now in the TNG era. It features the most famous trek characters and names of all time, the most iconic ship in the trek universe, AND it ties it all into continuity, without the need to again intro some new stupid species no one cares about, that ruin the movie before it even starts. On top of that, and I dont know how many times I can say this, it appeals to EVERYONE and can actually be a wide success. I don’t want to sound like a jerk, but a TNG or future era flick cannot be a success at this moment in time.

—-
Out of curiousity, How many people here think it would be a better idea for Paramount and the Trek world, to make a future or TNG flick as opposed to what JJ is doing?

I shudder at the thought of the Borg Assimilating Cylons!!

Sorry to butt-in on all the Borg talk…but I guess no-one’s impressed with my Jeremy Irons for Frankenstein idea!?!
Oh well,can i plug my bands myspace page then please?www.myspace.com/tridentrockband
Rock On!!!

oh and 790…and this is more important then Trek, are you doing what Greenknight and I are suggesting yet?..reading watchmen?

Ok Rob, we get it, you have unquestionable faith in J.J. Whether Mr. Abrams has some grand scheme for “Star Trek” for the next 20 years or not has no bearing on the merit of 790s’ proposed script. What his script outline says to me is, here’s a rock-in good story of conflict which hearkens back to some of the better TNG and TOS episodes. He also got something right that Paramount likes and that is that the franchise moves forward rather than setting the story in the TOS time. My point is that historically the highest grossing of the Treks, adjusting for inflation I believe is the FIRST one! “Star Trek” has always done best when it either takes current issues head on or shows the audience something new.

So how does a mirror universe borg showing up claiming to want to help all other species achieve perfection = new? That’s what I wanted to explore. After W.W.II so much of American culture came to be impressed onto world culture. Go to just about any decent size city in the world and you can get a PEPSI or a COKE A COLA. In many transactions you can make traveling across the world the American Dollar will suffice. I don’t know how true it is today, but back in the 70’s, if you were to visit Poland for example, and wanted to convert U.S. currency, the best exchange rates were on the streets, not the banks or official sanctioned currency exchanges.

So now do you get the idea of where I’m coming from. A race of benevolent beings shows up. You once knew them to be so hostile that xenocide seemed the only rational course. They’re now asking, not telling, for foreign relations. Their agenda is to observe and assist, IF asked. They claim to know of a path on to a next evolutionary step. If your society is willing, they will walk with you there. If not they are interested in where your path leads, so they want to observe you get there. They claim to have all eternity to watch. They no longer claim assimilation to be their goal, only understanding. They have transcended the physical plane and only need to use instruments to make their presence known.

Of course Science Fiction utopias are seen as unacceptable and are rarely visited, an inevitable fly in the ointment always seems to appear. “Growth is limited by what you have in the least amount.”

Rob you speak of broad story appeal but unless the story hits as many points on the life cycle as possible it has a slim chance to have that. I don’t know if you know what I’m talking about or not, so I’ll let you tell me.

Thanks Old Man,,,
I heed your words!!!

Very wise Old Man,,,

Old Man

I think you should read the Grahic novel first..THey cannot possibly put the entire novel in the movies and with the tie-in with The Curse Of the Black Freighter…this will be some major symbolism lost that won’t be in the movie. I can see your logic if you don’t want to know what happens in the movie prior to seeing it but to me it would be like seeing the LOTR trilogy without having read the books first I would not have seen what the director cut from the story because I didn’t read the books first…I agreed with what Jackson cut from the films but because I read the books first…THe story still flowed very nicely with a continuity that wasn’t interupted throughout the trilogy. For the Watchmen this will be much harder to accomplish because they are trying to get it all in one 205 hour film..

CHeers

@790

I would personally prefer the JJ’s version.For me he is just better suited for the job

I think before we can go back to the Borg ,
The franchise needs Abrams shot in the arm first.
790s idea was a good read though .
790, why don you flesh it out and present it here in chapters?
Could be fun!

Rob, (maybe I’m worng) , but I think what’s going on is that ppl are tierd of TNG/Ds9/Voy. timeline because of the stigma of Rick Berman/Co., and Nemesis,,,

I have a feeling if Abrams was working on a TNG story or the one like mine, the new take on the characters and the Borg would have just as much buzz going as Kirk and Spock.
Abrams could cast Nimoy as the Envoy that brings the Federation and Romulans togther?
He could play a big role in the war with the Borg as well.
Abrams take on the mirror universe would be the equivalent of the time travel story in Kirk/Spock tale.
Who knows,,,at least this way the Star Trek Saga contiues to move forward.»»»

Its all a matter of new creative blood at the top…all we can do is wait and see if it was the right move on JJ’s part.
I can allready hear Abrams sayng “it was the studios, they wanted to go back to Kirk&Spock”. Lol, well see …

(Anyway its fun to be at least talking Star Trek its been so dead for so long)

Hey, does anyone know when are we getting a OFFICIAL X-Men: Origins trailer? (aside from the Comic-Con one)

First off,,,
I felt this story of Romulan peace talks and Borg war, would be timly topic with the wars going on in our world.
Havng two old enemys work together would have been the social message…
(The Original Series was heavy in anti war topics)…..
^
Star Trek Collective
Additional info, thoughts on plotlines and characters…

The only way this film could work budget wise, is if all actors agreed to work for some kind of pay standard/cut. For this reason alone it would prob. be tough to get Stewart or Spiner. (Since there a package deal). Nimoy would be the only exception.

Nimoy would of course play Spock, he would play a huge role in the peace talks and the war,,,
I would have liked to work in a Sisko revival somehow. But you can only do so much in 2 hours. (If anyone has any ideas I would love to hear them)

I had thought about using the Bajoran wormhole as some sort of location the Borg could exploit to send thru an armada, but it had been done so many times before,,, plus the location takes us too far away from earth.

I had allways wanted to see Cap Riker on the Titan, with Troi, Worf, and Jordie as well….
A year after the Voyager homecoming, I figured there would be a re-fit Voyager NCC 74656-A and crew,,,,
Love to see 7of9 , Captain Tuvok, No,1. Paris, and Llt.Kim,
Chacotey would be on vacation that day, lol,,,
I would be open to any characters from DS9,,, they could be scattered throughout the story. I allways felt the name of the story “Collective” was a double meaning… (Borg fans know what I’m talking about) yet its also a collective of all the cast memebers that would agree to do the film, and replay their roles.

If Johnathan Frakes agreed to do the film, the Titan would be the main ship, in the beginning at least, If not then Voyager,,,
Later Romulan characters would get involved, as well as more Federation ships. At some point the Original Voyager would show up to kick some Mirror Borg A!
(The mirror Borg would be an even more dangerous and cold version)
As a sub-story I had also figured to see more of the Mirror universe Borg, and what they are dealing with on their side of the “Dimensional Gate”.
Since their multiverse would be one of the Borgs mightest, I figured we could see a NEW race of alien beings on the mirror side, fighting the Borg and winning. (Ala Species 8472).
Later these new aliens could even provide a pivitol role in the war at the end to close the Dimensional gateway.
One idea I had for the Mirror Borg would be to use Lore, (Datas Evil Twin) as their Locutus, more or less,,, (If Brent Spiner agreed to take a pay cut) lol,,,

One aspect of the story for me, would be to introduce a new ship/crew for a new TV show. During the main story we could follow along with one of the Section 31. Weapon test ships/crews.
This ship could have a totally new crew, with good casting, this could be one of the hero ships at the end. (Maybe even the Millenium Falcon of the battle) catch my dirft.

If the film was a hit, they could lauch a new Tv show with that crew set directly after the film. ????

I’m looking forward to seeing some new Abrams Trek, but going back to Kirk & Spock is a huge cop-out to me.
Allways will be.

790 ///

Poor Harry Kim!
All these years and still the best he can do is Lieutenant ?
In the mirror universe ,
He probably would have assassinated Chakotay by now!

Lol, GreenKnight333,,,
Hope it wasn’t anything I said,,,

I thought the actor who portrayed Harry Kim did a great job. In fact, Harry Kim was one of my favorite Voyager characters (and I will always admit this to my wife :-)).

I think 790 has a concept for a Trek movie that could work. My story would go like this:

After the events ending Voyager, all Federation ships are fitted with weapondry and shields from the future. The Borg are in shambles, with no queen and no direction. In the mirror universe, the Borg have assimilated Miles O’Brien, which means they have the knowledge to enter our universe. The Borg threat is renewed in our universe when the mirror Borg re-assimilate all the Borg here. The movie would start off by showing how the Borg came into existence by the same race that gave the Voyager probe the ability to circum-navigate the universe (a race of machines).

Thanks Kahless,,,
There was a good Klingon episode of Voyager, in season 7…
I loved watching the old school Klingon K7 class ship get its butt kicked. Lol

Also there was an episode of Enterprise called “Dead Stop” that also could have been Borg related.

Ken J, more like Masters of the Universe !!! Lol