Open Discussion - September 24, 2008

Heroes, Battlestar Galactica, and apparently the Sarah Conner Chronicles have an element of personal faith in them.

With Heroes, the bloom is already off the rose, because we know that Linderman is “god” and that Nathan is inviting an old sex fling into his private circle.

BSG’s messiah complex has been just creepy. Eclipsed only by the creepier cylons’ god fixation.

Babylon 5 had some faith moments. I’m watching the series for the first time, and they had a whole show based on the concept of Christian forgiveness. They also had a show with strong advice by preachers.

Deep Space 9 gave respect to the Bajoran religion and prophets.

I have thought of science fiction being a somewhat agnostic genre, and have thought that non-religious folks might have a problem with spiritual elements in a series. After watching B5, I conclude that if personal faith can be a part of a story, or even come to the forefront at times, if the show spends time on all aspects of the fictional culture.

Oh come on jc, what, you never read “DUNE”, “Stranger in a Strange Land”, “The Nine Billion Names of God”, “Manifold: Time”, “Machine Goddess” and “The Race For God.” Not to mention “X-Files”, SG-1, all the other “Star Trek” you didn’t mention..it’s practically oozing out everywhere. Oozing faith, that sound like an “X-Files” episode right there.
It’s a good thang.

Jc, how is Star Trek anti-God ???

Really STTOS?? I guess you never saw episode 54 “Bread and Circuses?” Episode 67 “The Empath” has an alien take on a Christ like quality. Episode 52 “Omega Glory” portrays the Yangs as having a faith in a higher power and of the Devil.
All those TNG episodes that went on about Klingon’s and Sto-Vo-Kor, like episode 149 “Rightful Heir.”

In “X-Files” Dana struggles with faith in God and her faith in science. You missed out there, X-Files wasn’t all paranormal. I do admit the paranormal stuff was less interesting IMO. So I agree with you on that point.

The “DUNE” mini series hits both genres. Quite well I think..

Well just got word today “Eagle Eye”, “The Day The Earth Stood Still”, and “Madagascar 2″ will be released for IMAX showing.

Mind you most of these films weren’t filmed in native IMAX but are up-converted from another format 35MM to IMAX for example. I’m unsure where “Madagascar” stands on this, but since it’s playing in both venues I suspect an up-conversion for it as well.

Star Trek TOS was anti-god? Hmmm. Uhura mentioning that the Son was the Son of God in “Bread and Circuses”; in the episode “Who Mourns for Adonis”, Kirk says “We have no need for gods. We find the One sufficient”; who is the One?

Also, Battlestar Galactica was created by a Mormon. The LDS faith believe that heaven is located in a system called Kolob; “Kobol” spelled differently.

thats why I think star trek 5 failed at the Theater

I would say TNG is more agnostic than atheistic. There are definate Socialist ideals in the show.

I wonder if there is something about american tv. Being a Brit, often found the whole faith thing creeping into shows from your side. Even ones supposedly anti it. I remember watching the Simpsons episode where Homer doesn’t go to church and wondering what the big deal was. Plus he went back.

I’ve seen a number of shows which will question, question, question, then leave it a bit more hopeful at the end.
British TV doesn’t have that problem, although we also get the messiah complex now and then. Just look at the new Doctor Who, and RTD is a well known atheist!
But you have Red Dwarf, definitely leaning to no-god, and other shows just got on with the scifi.
I just wonder if leaning pro-faith is something that needs to be done in the US because of mainstream thinking.

Then again, faith and philosophy would be part of questing through the universe. As long as it isn’t too preachy, I’m fine with it.

@Mr. Git

Gee I hope the Brits don’t perceive American TV as pro-faith.

That’s scary.

Honestly, what I watch wouldn’t be shown in religious circles anyway. But that’s a whole nothing post.

I meant to say “especially Next Generation.” I think I edited it out by mistake. For instance, one episode had the Federation studying a race prior to First Contact, where their cloaking technology failed and the people started worshiping them. The show belittled faith in general.

Old Man, John Taylor, I’m just about old enough to have watched TOS during its first run. I could never get over the fake props. I have a styrofoam boulder quota, you know. I thought it was like watching a bad puppet show. In fact, Pigs In Space had better special effects.

Wtf???

JC,,,, “their cloaking technology failed and the people started worshiping them. The show belittled faith in general.”

Belittled faith,,, ???

How does anyone know that the (ancient astronauts) that are clearly depicted in the tombs of some of the pyramids on Earth, didn’t have the same prob.
Havnt you seen the pictographs of ancient ufos visiting earth back before Christ.

Ever see the episode “Inner Light” ???

@Scarecrowe
Enjoy DeathProof,,,
I recommend a few beers first.

Personally I loved the last 10 seconds the best.

That’s ok jc we all have our little quirks. Quirks says the Tachikoma, yeah quirks, just, no more natural oil for you.
Sorry sometimes they get like that.

Its been a looong time since ive seen Kurt Russel in action, I still looove Big trouble in Little China, thats cheese done right dammit.

Hey, welcome Scarecrowe. You mentioned “Big Trouble In Little China” and I always like to ask anytime somebody brings it up; Did you think it could have used a little more humor?? It’s always bothered me I keep thinking if they would have tweaked the dialog just a little more and another site gag, this thing could come up a star know what I mean? 790 what do think?

No, certainly don’t think american tv is all pro-faith, or even mostly. Mind you, we do think of american as quite religious and conservative en masse, but that is just prejudice too (anti-americanism is the only ism we’re allowed these days).
Just something I’ve wondered about. I’m probably thinking of the mainstream shows too much, that don’t like stepping on anyone’s toes.

Ooooh, Big Trouble in Little China! Now that’s more my thing!

Ah man it has been so long since ive seen it that i couldnt really say although now that you mention i do remember the humorous moments being kinda few and far between. Ill have to watch it again soon, im pretty sure ive got it on vhs somewhere. Is it just me or were even the bad movies from back in the day better than most of what comes out nowadays? Maybe not really recently as i do think movies are getting a little better but the last 5 years or so. The comedy genre is about as dead as it can get between the stupid parody movies and the immature potty humor and horror also, youve either got your “torture porn” movies which are just trying to outgross one another or your stupid Grudge, The Eye, The Ring etc. I can almost understand why directors are panning the 80s for comics and cartoons to adapt.

“Soldier”! Seen it.. I’d set through it again over “Three Amigos” or “Ishtar.” I shudder thinking about that last one. Had to think a couple of minutes just to dredge up the title.

What! I loved soldier 790!

I miss the quality writing from Season 1 in Heroes… Season two was like a bad case of “Good morning honey… yet it was all a dream… that’s what happens when you pass out after your crack pipe is empty”…

Then the first episode of Season 3, is “Hello… do you want to smoke another crack pipe with me?”

How many times can we go through the same story with different takes?

Don’t get me wrong I love the idea.. but eh… how about some new stuff?

It’s all a mess now…

PS. 790… Babylon 5 is AWESOME!!!!

WE LIVE FOR THE ONE… WE DIE FOR THE ONE!!!
(No it’s not what the soldiers say before going to War… in Iraq)

Old Man,,,,
Sheesh I thought Big Trouble was pretty funny on its own,,
I’ve only seen it a couple of times and I’m sad to say I don’t have that on dvd ,,,,YET !

I was about to say it influenced the film “Kung Fu Hustle” but then I thought about that statement,,,,

Hey Vic, sorry to use this page for this but, I want to share my thought about Eragon, Eldest and Brisingr. I know Eragon movie had some flaws but I read the other books and I really love them, I was hoping to see the sequel from them but I haven’t heard of there progress or is they are considering making this film. Plz if you hear some thing plz let me know

Scarecrowe said: “Is it just me or were even the bad movies from back in the day better than most of what comes out nowadays?”

Nope, it ain’t just you.

@790: “BTILC”, I think should have had that one scene that took what was building up throughout the whole move, and hit you with it in such a way it had you rollin in the aisle. They almost had it with Kurt, the gun, and the ceiling falling in on him, but not quite. Maybe that was the one scene they should have tuned. I thought they could have added something where Kurt would have said; Hey this stuff really works, taking somebody down with a karate chop to the neck, only to get clobbered on the head by somebody with a frying pan.. Which works too.. I know that’s a bad example, but maybe you get my drift. To say in an amusing way, if what you got works, go with it.

Ya gotta add a good shot a fire sauce to that, don’t forget! ahh man, I’m gone…

The Big Trouble DVD is great. Loved the commentary on that. In fact, there’s even a bit where Carpenter and Russell just start chatting, about home and kids, like they were just sat somewhere meeting up. Well, they were. But quite funny when they realise the movie is still going.
I’m sure they could have made it better, think all movies can be enhanced in some way, but I love it. In fact, I’m going to watch it now!
Oh, on the DVD is the music video, with Carpenter and co. Love that as well.

Ergo Proxy - love the name as loved that series. Glad that’s safe from the ‘live action remakers’ - least for now.

Oh, and yes, even the crappy movies from once upon a time had something about them. I mean Commando is just dumb, but in an OTT way that is entertaining.
Running behind roses while guns blaze at you beats a nuked fridge any day.

As promised, been watching Big Trouble today with the commentary on. I do think this is one of my favourite commentaries as Russell and Carpenter spend a lot of time talking about just making movies and the ways things have changed, from both director and actor’s views. It is almost interview like.
Oh, and they do love this movie. Russell laughs a lot at himself, which speaks a lot for the man.

Ergo Proxy is a great anime. Very odd, very dark, and I can’t see how they would make it real action. It also spends a lot of time thinking and wondering, and many people would get bored. They would turn up expecting action and then whine about, like you say, the mysticism.

Bebop is one of the coolest shows I’ve ever seen. Also loved Avatar, saw the last episodes not long back. Thought that ended very well. That could be very funny (loved the play about them) and very grim (Jet came to a dark end).
What annoys me most is the people who get to make these always seem to be the wrong ones. Get some actual fans who want to keep the feel and content and it could work. Could.
Again, back to Russell and Carpenter on new directors - they see shots, not have a vision.

Hey 790, what was wrong with “Soldier”? I liked it.

“Big Trouble in Little China” is probably my favorite B-movie.

He speaks but it was robot-ish. He was an engineered soldier after all.

Yup, Big Trouble has Carpenter and Russell, just like on the Thing and Escape From New York.
I bought all three dvds early last year I think and listening to those two talk never gets dull. Plenty to say on their films and more, and clearly good friends.

@Git,,,
Curious was that in a collection or special edition dvd ??
I’ve gotta listen to the EFNY commentary one of these days.

jbrrex, I actually really enjoyed the Eragon movie - only two small scenes drove me nuts.

I really hope they make sequels, I hear the newest book is doing really well