As usual – talk about whatever you like as long as it’s related to movies, TV or Screen Rant itself – just remember to play nice.
Alright, i’m just gonna ask the question thats secretly in the back of everyone’s minds but no one wants to ask; what happens if Man of Steel bombs?
It don’t think it will.
But I am hoping that every X-Men film from here on out bombs and they have to reboot or switch studios.
I dont either, and i hope it doesnt. But there have plenty of movies where our expectations were high because the atudio had oversold the movie and it just fell short. As for X-men, i guess thats the best idea for now because i really cant think of a better one and right now neither can anyone else (other than Disney, they for some reason think they can fix the franchise)
“But I am hoping that every X-Men film from here on out bombs and they have to reboot or switch studios.”
I second that
I third that and something more I won’t see it in theaters if others will do the same. I never saw “ASM” or “First Class” in the theater and you know what I’m still alive and I saw them so I didn’t miss out. I just waited till they came out in an alternate format. DVD, or cable, Netflix, or Red Box just wait a little.
The advantage of delayed gratification is that it’s easier to skip the crap you don’t like too. In “ASM” quite frankly I was bored with the origin story. I skipped the most boring parts and I enjoyed it even better!
It’s cheaper to do this and if you like snacks you know you can make the best at home. The crap they sell at the theaters is Abysmal. Hot only on the top overpriced popcorn slathered with artificially flavored hog fat! And it was likely popped a week ago! Candy that’s limited to just a few choices often loaded with heaping bunches of dyes and chemicals and and if you think they’re harmless your mistaken. Over-sized, overpriced, watered down drinks which they bug you to buy at the snack counter that make you either exit the theater to relieve yourself in the middle of the show or have you ready to bust by the end.
Then there’s the unpleasant theater environment. Chatty people that just won’t shut up all during the movie or they’ve got to be on their cell phone. The sticky floors, dirty bathrooms, and lousy hvac systems. The sickly people that don’t have enough sense to stay at home when they’re sick, I gotta see this no matter what. Whiny kids that won’t shut up. Bored lazy people that insist on propping there feet on the back of the chair you’re sitting next to etc, etc. It’s almost enough to compel you to never visit the theater but then to be watching a film that grates for whatever reason? Sounds like torture instead of entertainment…
@the old man – Your name fits your POV. As much as I dislike some aspects of the theater, I will always go and enjoy my experience…good or bad. Some of those bad experiences make the best stories.
If I’m at home watching a movie, I won’t enjoy it as much. I’ll fall asleep or end up pausing it too many times and take myself out of the story. At the theater, I’ll sit down, ignore the world, and submerse myself into the story of the film I’m watching. I don’t get that same type of experience at home.
However, I’m with you to a point. I’ll avoid opening night/weekend for a lot of big movies. Or I’ll go on a night that’s not as busy, I saw TDKR on a Monday at 6. About 12 people in the theater.
It won’t bomb. Financially, at least.
All they need is enough money raked in from this and then they can launch whatever they want, whether it be “Justice League” or something along those lines.
This is Superman being well marketed. You’re going to have plenty of people paying to see this and, like it or not, something will follow it.
Just how I see it
@ ACW 007
Superman Returns made enough money to greenlight a sequel but not enough to WB. Plus the reviews from critics & fans about lack of action among other stuff the film suffered from. Even Batman & Robin made money back in the 90′s but a 5th film was cancled due to negative feedback from that film. Juat pointing somthing out not to take MOS for granted.
If MoS bombs, WB will be screwed… but it’s very unlikely that it’ll happen though.
Chances are it’ll be the biggest movie of the year (that’s what I’m betting on)
If it does then Warner is gonna have to what another 6 or 7 years to mess up a justice league start off
If it does bomb, maybe WB/DC should follow Marvel by not being so grounded.
I think it is between MOS and IM3
that’s what I’m thinking, with pacific rim and oblivion being potential black horses if they get rave reviews and good word of mouth.
I’m a big fan of Superman and I will have my butt in the theater for this movie, but I have this feeling that IM3 will be the more enjoyable film. I’m not sold on the actors they have portraying Superman and Lois, but RDJ as Tony Stark will have my behind in the seat opening night every time.
@ Andy S
I agree as im a big fan of Superman’s but feel skeptical of MOS but feel Ironman 3 will be more enjoyable with RDJ as Stark.
I disagree…Everything I’ve seen of and about MOS convinces me that we are in for an epic treat. I cannot wait for Cavill’s Superman to soar…and firmly believe he will.
As for IM3, it does look interesting (and I’ve loved RDJ,Jr in the role of Stark), but it hasn’t impressed NEARLY as much. I will see it, but it seems a lot more “ordinary”, more expected, to me. MOS seems to be much more exciting.
…but to each his own…
Depends what is considered a bomb? If it makes less than $400 world wide I think that would be considered a dud but it would make a profit. I know everyone that I talk to about summer movies don’t have any interest in it.
Real question ain’t if Man Of Steel bombs, they’re keep on makin Superman films. Real question is how it will affect Cavill’s career afterwards. Take Dean Cain, Tom Welling, Brandon Routh by example after being the role.
And don’t forget Christopher Reeves. There must’ve been a reason why he did Superman 4 after reading the crappy script.
Because he helped produce it. It was partly his fault, he wanted to push the anti nuclear angle that went nowhere. But the budget being cut to below TV movie standards is what really put the nail in the coffin.
From what i read,it was mostly the studio’s fault. Because Golan-cannon,whatever company stretched their money out on not only Superman 4, but on Masters Of The Universe & other films with low budgets which restricted everything on all the films needed to be good enough. Obviously we know the outcome. Plus Reeve only mentioned he would do a 4th film if the studio would put the money for a film he’s been wanting to work on which they agreed on plus Reeve worked on the 4th film’s story which imo wasn’t bad. No kryptonite, Nuclear Man was original physical threat that almost killed Superman before Doomsday excisted. Film had bad effects with a story that needed more work as the film was too short. If not better than Superman 3,imo both Superman 3 & 4 are pretty much equal then.
Christopher Reeve partly wrote Superman 4′s story. Imo, despite its short length of time & losu effects, i thought it was more watchable than Superman 3 was.
I found “Superman 4″ to be absolute dreck. It, to me, was MUCH worse than “Superman 3. I admired Reeve for the message he hoped to send with the film, but felt extremely frustrated with the crap that resulted.
The reasons why Man of Steel wont bomb (at the box office) :
3. Trailers & Marketing are really looking impressive.
2. Zack Snyder directed 300 & Watchmen (audience loved it more than critics). Those two movie in particular, because the way he handled those movies… is enough to prove that he can make a good superman movie…!
1. (The most important) CHRISTOPHER NOLAN
3. Trailers & Marketing can misleading. Superman Ruturns & Ironman 2 serve by examples.
2. I never saw 300 might of been good but Watchmen wasn’t wasn’t as well recieved by general audiences as you claim. Most who loved it were fans who read the comics & does prove he can make a Superman movie.
1. Christopher Nolan implies he’s hardly involve with the film, that the film is Snyder’s. Just because Nolan is involved doesn’t mean we’ll see the same spark with Superman that Nolan’s Batman trilogy had which isn’t all perfect imo.
“Watchmen” is still a damn good movie. “DREDD” is a perfect example of a brilliant movie that didn’t really have the market audience it needed and perhaps, on reflection (business wise) perhaps shouldn’t have been gambled on.
“Man of Steel” has the benefit of being about Superman. However, I wonder if not having “Superman” in the title will hinder it. It seems for a big movie to be successful these days they’ve gotta ram action packed trailers and video blogs down our throats and fill McDonalds with plastic toys.
Whatever you say. I went to see Watchmen because i thought it would be a good CBM, but i myself didn’t think it was that great. Again maybe because i was one of general audience that didn’t read the comics.
You don’t wanna market a PG-13 CBM to McDonalds, it might backfire like it did for Batman Returns.
Gotta agree Wally. I was really looking forward to Watchmen, but found it to be a boring movie. Sometimes a comic book shouldn’t be copied panel-for-panel to the big screen. “300″ was decent, so I’m hoping that Snyder finally makes an AWESOME film.
Thank You. I pretty much agree with your post. Especially last two sentances.
Point 3, I would disagree. None of the trailers I’ve seen have me all that excited and seem almost morose (particularly the part where Costner tells him maybe he’s supposed to let people die) which doesn’t really jive with my perspective on Superman. He’s supposed to be the man we all want and should be.
To point 2, he’s also directed Legend of the Guardians and Sucker Punch as well, neither that well received. Both are also his last two films.
And point 1, he’s just a producer which doesn’t guarantee anything. Films often give actors and actresses producer credits just to justify their higher salaries. My guess is that Nolan’s name was thrown in there just so they could show it in the trailers.
@chiguy – Papa Kent would never say something like that. That’s my main issue with the trailer. Papa Kent teaches Kal-El to be human…and last time I checked, letting a bunch of kids die isn’t normal human nature. I’m hoping that scene is edited out of the actual movie.
That scene could play out entirely different in the movie. Jonathan Kent could have said..
……”I don’t know, no of course not. But this could turn the eyes of the world on you Clark. Never do nothing, but just be careful about it okay!?”
It probably won’t, but I’d like to think it was just Pa Kent blowing off a bit of steam, not really meaning it. We’ve all done it. A bit of human characterization like that would be good and also fit this grounded feel they want for the film. Not like Raili’s “Spider-man” where aunt May and uncle Ben seemed like schmaltzy chocolate box cartoon characters.
I hope that it does do something along those lines, but for a trailer, it’s not a good idea to piss off fans by making a beloved character seem so callous.
I didn’t see Pa Kent as callous in that line; I saw him as a father. There was no indication, from the brief two seconds we saw, that Jonathon wanted or expected any children to die. He DID, however (and this, I think, was VERY clear from Costner’s delivery of the line), feel worried about his son’s safety and well-being.
I hope the scene IS in the actual film…fleshed-out, of course.
I got that Pa Kent was worried about his kid. But his response upset me…just shrugging off these other kids’ lives as collateral damage in order to protect his own alien son…seems unlikely for Pa Kent to act that way. And that is what is implied by his response (from what we see cut together in the trailer) But I do think it was out of context, and it won’t keep me from seeing this film.
The thing is Pa Kent probably never REALLY says that. When i saw that part in the trailer to me it felt like a part of his sentence was cut off. It also felt like they simply edited two different parts of Pa Kent and Clark’s conversation together. In other words, where Pa Kent basically says “yeah,” it could have been that he was answering a different question that clark may have asked. I think it was probably one of WB’s ways of getting people into theaters. I have seen movies where scenes that were in the trailers were not even in the actual movie itself. Therefore, it could all have been a rouse.
You have a point, in the trailer for TASM theres a scene where Spiderman is on the street near- begging a guy to borrow his phone but it never showed up in the movie. Studios also have an annoying habit of editing scenes that have no correlation in the film together in the trailer to make it look beter and add to the hype
exactly. I for one hope Man of Steel succeeds.
IF Man of Steel bombs, Warner Brothers will hope one of their other franchises takes off this year or next (Pacific Rim or Godzilla). Eventually, they’ll make another DC movie. I think mediocre box office results and having negative critical reviews will make WB think about the future of DC movies. It may be in their best interest to green light Justice League more quickly because Superman’s mediocre success combined with Batman’s recent financial success would be more prosperous than quickly pushing a Batman reboot and alienating viewers.
On the other side, my guess is IF Man of Steel is successful, that we will see that franchise for the next 7 – 8 years. Then, we’ll either get a Batman reboot or a Justice League movie.
I think there is multiple reasons papa kent would say maybe. He is trying to protect his son from the opinions of others. The film is takimg a realistic look at how people wouls react to a flying alien.
I agree they don’t really need a ‘Justice League’ movie to make money and I think they could wait years to release one when they feel they’re ready…
Should it bomb, then we’ll get more Batman asap
If it bombs, i prefer other superheroe films besides Batman/Superman. Give the two a break.
@WallyWest from a fan standpoint I completelly agree with you but from WB’s perspective, should Supes bomb they will run back to the Batman property for mostly financial reasons (as its as sure a bet as any).
It would still be a few years before a Batman reboot would ever happen. Nolan’s bman trilogy is still fresh in everybodys minds. Think about Bman and Robin in 97. Bman Begins didn’t come around until 2005. Sure Bman and Robin sucked and TDKR rocked but I still think WB is gonna wait awhile before greenlighting a new adaptation.
Thank you. I wouldn’t be surprised if WB does, from their perspective. A sure bet indeed.
Posted this a while back.
The Bigger the budget of a Zack Snyder movies, the worse it actually does. The Cheaper it does, the more it takes in.
Watchmen, Sucker Punch, Both had huge budgets and did not fare well.
Dawn of the Dead and 300 had smaller budget and went above what was expected in them.
Zack Snyder seems to be one of those directors that too much of a budget leads to to many added details and well, action is fun, action overdone is not to good.
I see a pattern there but you can’t really justify a cause and effects claim off of that. Your logic is a bit fallacious. Arguably there were other variables at play in the production and storytelling of all of Snyders movies that you listed.
sry if I sound like a dick I don’t mean it that way. I just really think that there were other larger variables at play that determine the quality of his films.
This is all rather subjective by the way. I thought Watchmen was great, you obviously didn’t. Suckerpunch had a huge budget but the story obviously sucked. It wasn’t the budget that sunk that ship rather the crummy storytelling. But I digress…
No, I am stating that his movies have a trend towards bigger the budget the lower the net income.
As the smaller the budget of his movies the more return in net.
The Cause and effect would be.
The Bigger the budget for His movies, the more he tends to over do them.
I find it when a director has a smaller budget, there is more emphasis on story than flash and substance.
Examples of would be. Watchmen 130 Million budget 185 Million, good special effects, low return, sub par movie.
300 65 Million dollar budget…456 Million dollar return.
Perhaps Snyder uses all of his budget and fills it with effects and substance and that is his downfall.
Ok so you’re talking more about monetary return than quality. The more expensive Snyder’s movie the worse it does at the box office. I guess thats a sound argument.
Still if you go to RT Watchmens at 64% and 300 is sitting at 60% I prefer Watchmen… But thats just my opinion
That’s been something I’ve been wondering as well. I’ll be honest, I’m not dying to see it. I’ll probably wait a week or two to see what word of mouth is on it before deciding. I do hope it does well only because I’d like to see the DC franchises move along like the Marvel ones and would hate to see WB have to put it on hold for a few years. I do agree that WB should give a few others besides Batman and Superman movies but they’re known quantities so that’s probably what we’ll get in a couple years if MoS doesn’t go blockbuster.
+1 Im getting to the point where im sick of nothin but Batman/Superman films from WB/DC.
Thank you. I agree there. In my opinion, DC has done poorly to make their other characters recognizable. Imagine, the last superman movie with christopher reeve was in 1986, and from that time all we have gotten from DC (as it pertains to the big screen), are movies based on batman and superman, with the addition of just 1 green lantern movie which came out just 2 years ago. When you compare that to marvel, we got 4 movies about four of their characters within a span of 3 years.
So where DC had at least 26 years (1986 – 2012) to silver screen their other characters, which in that time only 3 DC characters have had their own films, Marvel silver screened 4 of their characters in 4. If you do the math DC is, technically, 23 years behind Marvel.
*Marvel silver screened 4 of their characters in 3 years.
I hope it doesn’t, but I am nervous for it doing well. In today’s movie market though, what is sucessfull? Superman Returns did well enough to earn a squel, at least financially, and that went nowhere. I want it to do well, but I have doubts based on what I’ve seen and read.
I think it’s pretty standard for a successful blockbuster to do a X3 at the box office and ‘Superman Returns’ didn’t do that. It was profitable but only marginally, not good enough for a sequel. It could also be argued that it was profitable only because of the overall success of the franchise in general. In other words it rode the coat tails of the franchise too much to gamble on a sequel in the same vein. There was also the pressure from the lawsuits to consider. One of the accusations was that WB wasn’t doing their best with the franchise. If you’re going to make another, and WB will always want to make another, why not shoot for the moon not a half hearted sequel. They were compelled to.. Nothing against Brandon Routh by the way, I personally liked him as Superman…
@ The Old Man
Batman & Robin made enough to greenlight another sequel that WB was already planning a 5th film. But negative reviews from critics & fans alike changed WB’s minds on that of-course. From what i read, i too read Superman Returns made enough to warrent a sequel according to Singer. But the film didn’t make enough to satisfy WB.
If Man Of Steel bombs.. There will be no sequel and all hopes for a Justice League movie will be out the window.
it won’t. superman is too popular of a character for the film to flop. even despite how much people claim to hate “superman return” that film DID make money. just not enough for it to be considered a success.
For all of those thinking Superman Returns made money.
209 Million dollar budget
World Wide Gross 191 million not including United States
USA 200 Million Dollars profit.
That is a 391 Million dollars, on a 209 million dollar budget is a 182 million dollar net.
That is not making money if your net is less than your budget.
Jeff, that makes no sense. Seems to me that it MADE it’s budget back PLUS $182 million (by your math). That is a 87% rate of return. Try getting that kind of return for your money from a bank or a stock.
Any news on “Snowpiercer” ? Huge cast and great director for this sci-fi movie and nobody talk about it :p
The film is set in a future where, after a failed experiment to stop global warming, an Ice Age kills off all life on the planet except for the inhabitants of the Snow Piercer, a train that travels around the globe and is powered by a sacred perpetual-motion engine. A class system evolves on the train but a revolution brews.
Never read the GNs but meh doesn’t sound all that interesting to me. I mean if you have a perpetual motion device why put it on a train? Why not create a town/city powered by it?
I mean I will see it come video but I dont see this hitting the theaters very well.
Like i said, i dont imagine it will fail and am sincerely hoping it doesnt, but theres still that hypothetical ‘what if?’ DC/WB are hoping to use this to jumpstart the JL movie, but if this fails (again, all hypothetical) how would they get themselves out of a mess like that?
Oops, sorry. That was supposed to be for the MoS discussion,
Well,my opinion would be for WB/DC to have shared universe that’s less Grounded. There’s plenty of ways to keep their films different from Marvel, say no after-credit cameo for starters.
That is the point of a perpetual motion engine. Would be hard to make a town stationary that use perpetual motion as its power source.
Does anyone else think that X-Men Days of Future Past is going to be TO BIG? Sure I want to see the old Prof. X and Magneto back for a cameo but brining back almost the entire old cast is ridiculous. I loved First Class and I think that was mainly because it was focussed on a few characters that ended up getting some decent development. And using time travel is hard to pull off especially how big this movie is becoming.
I personally think the old cast might be in the movie about 20 minutes. I don’t think it’s going to be as large as everyone thinks.
100% agree. Its been said the majority of the film will take place in the 70s while they try and stop the assassination. The old cast will just bookend the film, probably a huge sentinel fight in the near future, and providing the stories reason for the time travel and then once the assassination is averted show the changed present… Basically giving everyone a taste for new xmen (original cast films). As such fox would now have, first class xmen films and say new xmen original cast films.
I’m guessing alot of the returning original cast will be killed off when they are showing the future scenes and even though the firstclass X-men will save the day in the present time creating a new future, it will be the perfect way to recast the original X-men in future movies.
I’m still weary about any X-Men films. The first two were both worthwhile at their time of release. Last Stand and Wolverine Origins knocked the franchise so far down that I had no expectations for X-Men First Class. I saw it and enjoyed it. Later on, I re-watched it. I think watching it without expectations made me think it was a better film than it was. Still, it was enjoyable. The Wolverine this summer is something that I HOPE to be an interesting film…however, I won’t go out of my way to watch it. So as for X-Men DOFP, I’m not overly invested. I keep hearing rumors about cameos and perhaps Apocalypse being involved. It keeps getting bigger and bigger and all I think is…it’s another Last Stand. So maybe they are leading me to have no expectations for this film, and then I’ll enjoy it.
I agree 100%. I think it’s going to be Spider-Man 3 on steroids. The cast and scope of this movie seem way too big and too involved. It personally think it will be a big budget mess. They should just start over instead of trying to tie up all the loose ends together.
I still haven’t lost faith in the potential that Days of Future Past has but I’m really worried about how Singer will balance the story with how many cast members he has to juggle. Especially seeing how middle of the road Jack the Giant Slayer was. If Jack is of any indication of what Days of future Past will be then we could be in for a movie that’s better than X3 but not as good as First Class.
not quite movie related, but I’m just so happy. my friends got me this book for my birthday yesterday http://www.amazon.com/Iron-Man-Ultimate-Guide-Armored/dp/0756657490 DDDDD best gift ever!!!
Hmmm anybody sese think it would be interesting if they went down the clone path in TAS? What if they brought in Jackal, Kaine(PP clone), Scarlet spider(both a clone, and pete I think, its kinda complicated), and (after her death of course) a cloned Gwen Stacey… now that would be interesting
That wold be best after the first trilogy is completed IMO, but don’t do it in the movie immediately after Gwen dies (maybe two movies later.) That does make sense though, if they are trying to make a shared universe. They could have Spiderman, Venom, Kane, Scarlet Spider, and if they go for a very new story, Alpha.
I think that would be rather cool to try that, but a little further down the road. Maybe after characters like MJ or Norman Osborn have been fully introduced and fleshed out. On a related note, any news on JJ Jameson?
Anybody watch the Young Justice show over the weekend? The good guys won the fight but at A cost. Kid Flash/Wally West was killed and Vandal Savage turned War World over to Darkseid. And now there going to cancel this show DANG!
Yeah, i was actually able to catch it. But thats so damn depressing, the show was really good and now its being cancelledfor Teen Titans Go!, like seriously? Its pathetic
Right?! Lol. I buy them on DVD so I’m always way late on watching them.
Yeah I saw it. Is Kickstarter only good for live-action? Hopefully the producers can work something out with WB, Cartoon Network or whoever to get a direct-to-DVD movie about Young Justice and Darkseid – something to keep this show going in some form.
then we also need a kickstarter for spectacular spiderman
I bet he went into the speedforce.
Has anyone seen Appleseed Exmachina? if so is it good? I saw a trailer for it on Justice League New Frontier which was awesome…
i didn’t like it. imo, the characters were boring and the plot was too unoriginal.
Last night we played a drinking game. Watched The Boondock Saints 1 & 2. Every time Rocko dropped an F Bomb, we had to take a drink of our whiskey. Intense it was.
lol I’m surprised you have any memories at all from last night
There is a lot missing from last night.
I just saw this link above and this guy has Watchmen listed as a top 5 most disappointing films of all time. Now I am not saying that it is a perfect adaption of the graphic novel, especially considering the ending was changed. But overall I really enjoy this movie. I think the visuals are great, and it is amazing to have the novel on hand as you watch the movie just to see how similar some of the screen shots are to the comic panels.
I was just wondering if I am way off on this, and everyone else agrees that it was an incredibly disappointing movie.
I never read the graphic novels but I did watch the movie and I thought it was very good. No, it wasn’t a disappointment but everyone has different expectations. Maybe those people who say that it’s a disappointment were expecting something different than the actual movie.
I think people often misinterpret the word “disappointing”.
To me the word means something which you had very, very high hopes for, but then it ends up not meeting those expectations at all. I.e. it’s not necessarily bad, it’s just not good enough/as good as you thought it would be.
Like Prometheus for example: it’s not really a bad movie, but it was hyped up to be so much more than it ended up being (to most people at least). Same goes for The Godfather Part III. It’s actually a pretty good movie, but since the first two are so highly praised, it didn’t meet people’s expectations.
So all that said, maybe the guy just had crazy-high expectations for Watchmen? It definitely wasn’t a bad movie, but I know for a fact that some of the hardcore fans were kinda pissed off after having seen the movie.
Actually, I enjoyed the film very much and found the ending to be a GREAT improvement over that of the graphic novel (whose ending I thought was annoyingly stupid).
People just have different likes and expectations…
Yeah, I agree. I much prefered the changed ending. It seemed to make more sense, seemed less tacky and avoided a subplot that would have been boring.
I think people may seem disappointed because it wasn’t based on a kids comic. Children have zero interest in the Watchmen characters. Because of that they are not pop culture icons like many other comcbook characters. They are cult icons.
I just think it was a liitle too adult to be a worldwide hit that would sell millions of kids lunchboxes and happy meals. A solid film though and is up there with “300″ and “Sin City” in terms of almost direct conversion of a comic from page to screen.
I’m in agreement with Archaeon about the ending. I really enjoyed the film and thought it was one of the best adaptations of any graphic novel (or novel for that matter) that I’ve ever seen. The improved ending actually made more sense than the the graphic novel ever did.
the watchmen film was better than the book, no alien squid.
I think Rorschach is captured perfectly. He is one of my favorite comic book characters and Jackie Earle Haley portrayed him even better than i could have hoped.
I teared up a little when Rorschach died… i havent done that since The Return of the King.
Yeah I saw the link for that “disappointing movies” with watchmen in the picture. I didn’t even click on it because I disagree. I thought the movie had such an intriguing setting and the story of what if we wont the war in vietnam. So many interesting narrative ideas.
I’ve been told the graphic novel is better. I however enjoyed the film a whole lot. It was visually fantastic and the story was really thought-provoking.
Technically we did win that war. The peace settlement was signed in Paris on 27 January 1973. But if you’re referring to a moral victory then that was certainly a hollow one for the other side. The domino theory of Communism was stopped in its tracks and Vietnam is a wreck of a country today…
The graphic novel of “The Watchmen” isn’t so much better as it is simply original. The film was a loving (some might say “slavish”) tribute to the GN. The GN came first, and the film copied it…mostly. As I stated above, some improvements were definitely made…GN’s asinine squid ending: I’m looking at you. Both formats and “versions” possessed fantastic and (oddly) unique elements. Both also contained some not-so-hot aspects…film’s superhero sex scene: I’m looking at you.
That’s the best use of a soundtrack song while referring to erectile dysfunction….EVER. Name one other film that beats it.
Okay…point to you
I thought Watchmen was a pretty good film. It adapted the novel really well. And yea, some of the scenes from the movie were perfectly matched with the grapic novel. I think the way the novel was portrayed in the film was pretty good. The ending was changed though, and for good reason. It would seem a lil funny seeing a giantic squid monster destroying part of new york city.
Nope, list is spot on. Watchmen stunk and all of those other movies were overhyped and didn’t live up to it. However, the only 1 that was truly terrible, IMO, was Watchmen. Spidey 3 at least had Sandman and Crystal Skull had Harrison Ford as Indy. Watchmen had a big blue man package. FAIL.
Nope, the list was wrong. “Watchmen” was great and an excellent celebration of comic books.
As for my above comment, it was supposed to (and did) appear above; I accidentally submitted it again instead of THIS comment to Andy S.
I have found quite a few of Snyder’s films to be worthwhile (or, at least, entertaining): “Watchmen” (not “THE Watchmen” as I typed above): excellent, “300″: excellent, “Legend of the Guardians”: quite entertaining (and visually stunning to boot), “Sucker Punch”: problematic, but still fun to watch. With the story done by Nolan and Goyer (and EVERYTHING I have seen OFFICIALLY released about the film so far) and Snyder’s flair for visuals and action (even his die-hard critics give him those two), I feel extremely confident in MOS’s success.
All of the negativity about the film feels contrary to the very nature of the character so many of us are claiming to love. Sure, look with an intelligent, aware, critical eye…but don’t drown in the morass of hopelessness into which some of you seem to have jumped.
Just a question, if they do decide to cast an actor for the Lex Luthor role for the Man of Steel sequel, who should it be?
Well, i cant think of anyone who would be good, but for one; not Rosenbaum. Too much of him in Smallville
Dean Pelton? …I dunno
I was thinking Bryan Cranston, that’s just my opinion.
The thought dawned on me too, but be honest, you’d just end up rooting for Lex Luthor if Bryan Cranston plays him.
Even as a bad guy, Cranston’s just too damn awesome
True, wouldn’t you want a bad guy to root for a la Ledger’s Joker from The Dark Knight?
LOL @the Avenger
wait a second… @professor procrastination and @the avenger are you guys community fans? that just made my day!! I love finding fellow greendale human beings
I’m not sure. I have Changnesia.
What about John Malchovich? He does crazy well, and I coud see him as a ruthless businessman too
Peter Sarsgaard would have been perfect in my opinion but his casting in Green Lantern might cause an issue.
I’m going to go with actors that I think would be great in the role…but I’m not sure how they would look bald.
Ben Affleck, Joaquin Phoenix, Leonardo DiCaprio
You need a larger than life personality…Phoenix is perfect in my opinion. But factor in Luthor’s size and Affleck would be a better choice. Average those out and add the fact that he’s worked with Nolan…DiCaprio is the only choice.
Thank yo!!!!!!!!! I was about to rant about how he had been overlooked so far. IMO, he is the best choice out there.
Heh. Thank You… not yo…
Luke Goss (Interview with a hit man) should be Lex Luther. He’s a dead ringer, and would do very well. He is perfect for Lex.
Im really thinking Bradley Cooper.
I actually find it imposible to gauge what is going to be a hit in theatres these days. Mostly because all the films I’m interested in I read about online all the time. So I don’t have a real feel for what the average joe is looking forward too. The opposite is true too, films I have no interest in I never bother reading about and am then mystified when a movie I thought looked like ass becomes a super-massive-mega-hit.
Watchmen perform under expectations
130 Million dollar budget, 185 Million dollar world wide gross. 55 Million dollars net. Not good by standards for Studios who want a larger return.
300 Budget 65 Million. Worldwide Gross, 456 Million dollars Net, 391 Million dollar gross. That is what make studios happy.
Warner Brothers is investing 225 Million. Looking for nothing less than 1.5 Billion Worldwide.
Sucker Punch, 82 Million dollar budget. World Wide Gross 89 Million. Net 7 Million dollars
Dawn of the Dead 28 Million Dollar Budget. Worldwide 102 Million. 74 Million dollar net.
See, the proof is there, the bigger the budget, the lower the worldwide net.
One thing people do not factor in with Superman. His popularity outside of the United States, for the most part other countries just see Superman as a solely American culture, and it does not always translate. I was in Australia when Superman Returns was out, it did poorly, not because it was an ok film, but it was nothing to do with Australia and it was all about the United States.
So, in other Countries, Man of Steel might not even be of high interest to everyone, but the most die hard of fans.
That whole “it’s American” thing should not be used as a factor anymore…”Avengers Assemble” had CAPTAIN AMERICA in it and took place almost wholly in NewYork (with a few, relatively insignificant non-New York scenes). No reminder how THAT turned out needed…
Despite the pessimistic nature of this whole thread, I maintain that the people putting this film together seem to have come up with what looks to be an epic film (judging by the trailers, interviews, photos, and casting). My anticipation is practically bursting. If we’ve really become SO negative and hopeless as moviegoers, then, film as an entertainment medium is breathing it’s last.
A shame…hopefully, a falsehood…
I DESPISE auto-correct.
That should be “its last”.
Difference between Avengers and Man of Steel.
Avengers has a marketing machine behind it, knew how to market The Avengers and as such.
Man of Steel, well WB Track record on promoting films is …hit or miss
Dark Knight rises vs Green Lantern.
Both movies were marketed well, one succeeded and one failed miserably.
Zack Synder track record with big budget films, not that great.
Watchmen and Sucker Punch.
Superman was always associated with Truth, Justice and the American Way.
Avengers, different concepts, and not in your face United States is the home of the Avengers. I do not care, I prefer Truth Justice and the American way, other countries do not.
Regardless, 220 million dollar budget means it has to equal or surpass The Avengers, and we are talking 1.5 to 2 billion dollars. Anything less than 1 billion and Man of Steel would have failed.
Regardless of what fans or critics say. Ultimately it will come down to what the box office says, if Man of Steel cannot beat The Avengers, it will be hard for Warner Brothers to commit to any future Super hero films.
Are you forgetting it has chris nolans name on it? Guarenteed to atleast boost the sales in some way shape or form. His last 3 films were giagantic successes.
Chris Nolan’s name attached means as much as Fords name attached to the Edsel.
Means nothing, so what if Nolan name is attached, so he produced, he did not direct, and if he had input over Zack Snyder directing of Man of Steel, then what does that actually say?
Ummm Which Nolan film are you refering to that surpassed The Avengers? None if i recall correctly.
“Superman was always associated with Truth, Justice and the American Way.”
Not in Red Son!
If Warner Brothers expects Man of Steel to outdo the Avengers’ Box Office, they’re making a mistake. It’s the first (reboot) of a franchise where the Avengers was the culmination of five solo films leading up to a team-up. They should be shooting for $350 – $500 million…not a billion and a half.
$350 – $500 million – domestically. That would be $700 million to a billion internationally.
Oh you know what I meant sheesh lol.
No, Warner Brothers wants that billion dollar mark….No ifs, ands or butts.
220 Million dollar price tag, and you think they want to settle for 70 million plus????
Batman Begins – $150 million production budget and made almost 375 million worldwide.
Batman Begins rebooted Batman. I’m expecting Warner Brothers want to make a significant return on their investment, but they also know this is kicking off another franchise with lots of merchandising and DVD/Blu-ray sales. I may be high with my estimate of $700 million plus. Let’s lower that to $600
5 movies is no where near enough data to justify your conclusion. There are way too many other variables that could contribute to the trend.
Zack Snyder ability to get low returns on his movies based on the larger the budget?
For Lex Luthor, Id would of gone with Christopher Meloni if he wasn’t already casted in MOS. Other than him, Billy Zane.
@ Wally West
I agree with Billy Zane, but could he carry the role?
It’s been awhile since i seen him in anything. I think he’d be able to if he was playin the business man Lex Luthor type. Last time i watched Titanic, i thought he’d be perfect as Lex. Other than him, Christopher Meloni.
So The Hobbit releases on Blu-ray tomorrow. I want the movie but I’m wondering if in a few months an extended version will be released.
They will release at least two more versions, MINIMUM…Extended and Trilogy (plus, there will be at least one 3-d version later if not tomorrow).
I’m holding out for when the entire trilogy is available as box-set, or what I’m hoping for, when they release an entire Middle Earth BD set that includes all six LotR + Hobbit movies (I still need to get the LotR movies for my collection!)
I’m going to wait for the extended versions box set like I did with the LOTR trilogy. Those extended versions really fleshed out those films and drew them even closer to the novels. AMC had The Two Towers on tonight and I had forgotten how epic that battle for Helm’s Deep was. Makes me want to watch Return of the King tomorrow!
I think man of steel will do fairly well…I REALLLLY want to see a JL movie but honestly even if MOS does well I still don’t think they’ll do a JL movie I don’t think it’s a matter of them not thinking the characters would translate well I just don’t think WB is in touch with its audience and still thinks superhero movies don’t do we’ll..
If anyone’s interested, my youtube was kind enough to suggest this video to me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V85olh2aZ34
It’s the entire, full-length SDCC Firefly 10th Anniversary panel.
I am intrigued by the discussion of the “what if” Man of Steel goes bad. So I would like to ask that if the Man of Steel is good to both audiences and critics while also doing good at the box office do you think they will jump on a Flash movie? If this is done who should the villain be? Assuming the Man of Steel has the Nolan feel that some people like they would need a more unique character for the “realistic” feel. I want Captain Boomerang because he could use explosive boomerangs and not be addressed as Captain Boomerang except maybe as a joke.
Ive been saying this for weeka everyone is over doing what nolan style means. After man of steel a movie with flying people with superpowers nothing is off limits. Anyone can be used, any powers can be shown.
The MOS can still be a very limited universe. Nolan has made an iconic hero (Batman) and made him into a normal physical human wanting to make a difference. For example in the Star Trek franchise the things that happen have to be believable and to an extant “realistic.” Yes, there are some very unrealistic moments that are going to happen in the MOS but this movie will be viewed as a science fiction movie and not just another comic book movie.
With Nolan and Snyder at the helm they are most likely going to take a more Star Trek route as apposed to the Marvel way. Nolan’s Batman had some “unrealistic” moments such as the fall from a skyscraper, magic knee brace, the clean slate and recovering quickly from a broken back. what I am trying to say is that the Batman/Christian Bale can still technically have a place within the MOS universe.
Well, i’m really not that familiar with Flash so i cant answer your villian question; but i think DC/WB have ‘announced’ that they’re doing a Flash and Wonder Woman movie. I also think i read an article on here about a Wonder Woman prelude series entitled “Amazon”
Ok, So Christopher Nolan wrote man of Steel.
Zack Snyder directing.
Ford put their name on the Edsel.
Sony Put their name on Beta Max
Coca Cola put their name on New Coke
As much as I loved Batman Begins, it made me go see The Dark Knight, which led me to go see The Dark Knight Rises, and only The Dark Knight Rises left me to wonder…WTF!
Inception was good, but the ending…WTF
Yes, I know Christopher Nolan is a damn fine director, and he is a damn fine writer, but truth be known. He is bound to put up a clunker.
Ridley Scott had Alien and Blade Runner. Then he did Prometheus…WTF!
Point is. Great Directors and Writers are bound to put up a stinker….Christopher Nolan could have written the best piece ever for Superman, or he could have given us another WTF!
But lets look at one outside factor…Legendary Pictures.
Man of Steel Pending on where actually it is going to rate.
Batman Triology and The Hangover II
Watchmen and Ninja Assassin
Clash of the Titans and Wrath of the Titans
Inception and Jonah Hex
Produced or in association with produced some of the above movies.
Now..How many of those movies were WTF!
Dude only cause some of those weren’t received well by critics or didn’t make box office Gold, doesn’t mean MOS will fall short as well. I think it will do great at the box office, and critically; well we’ll see.
Going off of track record.
Man of Steel can be either Superman II or it can be Superman Returns.
@ Jeff W
Good post. Valid.
Seen the Man of Steel trailer last night for the first time with some family, they were all excited but I still wasn’t convinced. I’m sorry but this movie IN MY OPINION does not look exciting to me.
What gets me about the trailer.
Seeing Ships show up at the Kent Farm.
Seeing Clark Kent go through the trials and tribulations of either being human or being Superman.
Lets face facts, Superman knows he is stronger, more powerful than any human, so where is the conflict? Is he trying to be more human when he knows he is not, no matter what he will do. Is he going to go to his 25th Smallville Reunion not looking a day older than 30. How he does not seem to be showing any signs of aging?
We as fans already know what Superman is destined to become, he just seems to have to think so.
The more I hear and see of Man of Steel, the more it seems like the New 52 version, the suit, the rebooted mythology and the such. I am not a New 52 Reader, I am an Old School Superman, that is the Superman I grew up with, and it is not the New 52 Superman that I need to view.
And if anyone thinks WB would not base it on the New 52, well why have a new movie based on the old Superman you retired and rebooted. Not a good marketing strategy. If it appeals to the New 52 Fan base, then the movie is going to suck at the box office.
Yet is still sounds like you will go see the movie. If you are a life long (original) Superman fan then chances are you will probably rush out and see Man of Steel simply because you have to see whether or not it is as bad as you thought it would be. Personally I am not a big “reboot” fan of any franchise because they have the chance of ruining the original. Surprisingly the Man of Steel looks good to me (which I know is my opinion) because it shows the opposite side of Superman.
The original Superman franchise shown Clark/Superman as the boyscout filled with nothing but good. This interpretation appears to be showing the same Clark/Superman only in a completely different world. The boyscout has to face a harsh reality check when not every citizen he saves is good and that people may or may not respond well to the appearance of a super powered alien. These things were not really brought up in the old comic/movies.
Actually, it depends. When it comes to new movies. I went to see Watchmen because I was a fan, at the end I was like WTF.
Man of Steel, honestly I may or may not see it. I did not run out to see Superman Returns because I was not a fan of Superman with contact lens, so I waited for DVD on that one, plus I was not a fan of Bryan Singer so that was another negative.
Now with Zack Snyder I saw Dawn of the Dead, because I am a Zombie Fan, 300 also, but Sucker Punch, eh…left me with a bad taste in my mouth. The style reminded me of 300 in its execution and that turned me off somwehat.
Man of Steel, it is not rated highly on my list of movies because it just does not feel like Superman to me.
I understand what you are saying but my point is that many fans of the original or new 52 will rush out and see it no matter what simply because at one point or another Superman was their favorite hero. You are correct in that the movie is being directed by Snyder but remember Nolan is producing the film as well which is definitely saying something to fans of Nolan and Nolan haters.
The film will do well at the Box Office because of the Comic Book fans and previous film fans. It appears as though you are worried about the emotional aspect of the story. I can guarantee that with Nolan doing the producing that the film will have the emotional part and with Snyder it will have action. The acting appears good based upon the trailer and the actors previous work. The directing and producing have done well in the past. To me this looks like it has more pros then cons so I am just not worried.
Either you’re Nolan himself or you just have the biggest man crush on him that I’ve ever witnessed.
…or because Nolan has a proven track record.
Sure, Nolan is bound to have a failure (or two…or twelve); ALL directors mess up in their careers at some point(s). I’m curious why so many of you are in such a desperate rush to hurry him along to his???
No, I am not Nolan and no I do not have a crush on him. I am only trying to point out that Nolan shouldn’t be underestimated. He built up the Batman franchise practically from scratch. I am not saying he can’t make a bad movie (because he has) and I don’t like all of his movies. Inception was a bad movie in my opinion.
Any director can make a mistake for example J.J Abrams made Super 8. This film definitely wasn’t his best movie and it didn’t do very well. George Lucas, Tim Burton and Steven Spielberg have had ups and downs as well. I just like the artistic talent that Nolan has to take well known heroes and bring them to a more “realistic” level without destroying the fan base.
@ Writer ” Personally I am not a big “reboot” fan of any franchise because they have the chance of ruining the original.”
REBOOTS do not ruin the originals. The originals still exist and the new version exists for another generation…it’s a lot like parallel universes. With that said, PREQUELS sully the existence of the originals. Those take beloved characters and force back stories upon them that are unwarranted. And with that said, REMAKES like the shot for shot remake of Psycho are completely unnecessary.
@ Professor Procrastination
I didn’t mean all reboots are bad and I don’t hate all of them. I know that reboots are basically an alternate reality but many people complain that Batman was ruined because of his reboot. As you and I both know that this was merely one man’s interpretation of the character and that nothing was actually set in stone and that the character isn’t ruined.
As for what I was trying to say about reboots though is that some (not all) reboots cause an unwanted taste in my mouth whenever I try to watch a movie that has been rebooted. Although I can say that the movie really didn’t count since it was a reboot it is still in my head and I see it every time I think of the movie. Such as Spiderman. Don’t get me wrong I like Spiderman but I didn’t really care for the reboot, sorry. Now I see the movie in the back of my mind every time I watch the original trilogy.
Glad im the only old-school Superman fan here. It also seems like they’ll doin what’s been done already but taken it up a notch. From Supeman 2, Zod & the kryptonians arrival on Smallville,etc. Just about anyone knows Superman’s origins no matter if you make it different from Donner’s film. It’s been seen different on Superman:TAS.
Another comment thread mentioned The Hobbit dvd release date tomorrow… On that note
Am I the only person that would like to see an abridged version of the Hobbit with all the fluff cut out only including key parts from the book. This would be after the entire trilogy has been released of course. Get rid of radagast, pale orc, porcupines. I’m not saying I didn’t like these parts I mean The Hobbit was great. But anyone who has read the book knows it could totally be made into one movie.
Eager to hear more news about a sequel to “Oz, The Great and Powerful”
Yeah I want deets too! Saw Oz on saturday and SR was totally right its a carbon copy of Army of Darkness. But I happen to love Army of Darkness so Oz was perfect for me
For anyone who uses Superman Returns as a point of “Even Superman Return made money.”
The Goal of any Movie is to make it PAST IT BUDGET 209 Busget for Superman Returns
Worldwide Profit was 391 Million Dollars, which means 182 Million was the net.
To be successful, Man of Steel with a 225 Million dollar budget, would have to equal the 220 Million dollar budget of The Avengers. Which made 625 Million domestically and 900 Million World Wide, which gives it 1.5 Billion.
Now Man of Steel has to match that anything less would be a failure. The Avengers had a return value, people actually paid to see it twice.
Now Man of Steel Magic number to secure a sequel and a Justice League Movie
225 Million 650 Million domestically and it has to break 1 billion dollars internationally.
1.7 Billion is the target number so subtract 225 million and 1.4 billion is the magic number.
As an English teacher, I work in a county that sees comic books and graphic novels as pleasure reading and something not beneficial to reluctant readers and non-readers. Therefore, I’m not allowed to use them in the classroom for instruction. This is even after I’ve presented evidence that comics have been proven to help reluctant and non-readers become readers. The naysayers view all comics as violent and full of large-breasted women in tight outfits. Sad.
I was asked to create questions for an upcoming eighth grade English test, so I took a gamble and wrote a paragraph about how Superman was created by Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster. To my surprise, my paragraph was accepted. True, my material isn’t an actual comic book, but it is a step in the right direction.
And start making plans for May 4th, which is Free Comic Book Day!
You are an English Teacher?
How is it a comic book or graphic novel cannot be considered required reading? Most books students are required to read that are non educational are for the most part are fictional to begin with.
You can always slip in Pride and Prejudice and Zombies?
…not if he wants to keep teaching in the school system. He’d have to make a DAMNED convincing case that PPZ could be worked into the curriculum effectively. Unfortunately, too many public school system administrators are too stupid (or, at least, too narrow-minded) to allow themselves to be convinced…
For the record, I thoroughly agree with you ($2) and with your confusion (Jeff W.).
@Jeff W – Just because Zombies are involved doesn’t change the fact that it is still a work of Jane Austen. Full disclosure, I covered Austen during my capstone class for my B.A…that means an entire semester of reading Emma, Pride and Prejudice, Sense and Sensibility, Mansfield Park, and Persuasion. Worst semester ever. And all I can say is: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! (in my best Anakin voice).
And $2 – Keep it up. Micro-victory for comics!!
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