Open Discussion – July 23, 2014

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sr open discussions 2013 Open Discussion   July 23, 2014

As usual – talk about whatever you like as long as it’s related to movies, TV or Screen Rant itself – just remember to play nice. icon smile Open Discussion   July 23, 2014

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  1. Are stingy cinematic property rights killing prospects for larger shared universe game system games like “Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3″ Because that would be super-harsh sauce….

    • I have been waiting on MUA 3 for a while now too.

      Those games capture a nostalgia of arcade play that has been missing since the early 90′s.

    • I don’t think so… I mean, we DID have Lego Marvel Superheroes and we have Marvel Heroes as an MMO atm, so there are no reasons to assume that.

    • https://www.marvelheroes.com/download

    • I could be wrong on this but I believe the film rights are separate from all other media rights. That’s why Marvel can still put out Spiderman and Xmen cartoons even though their film rights belong to other studios. So I doubt the game rights are held up due to film rights.

  2. hey its comicon week!

    and that means its time for the yearly tradition of us Deadpool fans to pray for an announcement or some news on a movie. But sadly Fox hates Deadpool and all his millions of fans so im sure we will get screwed yet again.

    I wish the rights would revert back to Marvel since Fox refuses to acknowledge the incredible fan following and demand for a movie to be made….CORRECTLY

    just one fans opinion

    • @Wade – if those rights revert back to Marvel, you’d be lucky to see Deadpool on Netflix. Disney won’t be making a rated R superhero film and that’s a property that should not be watered down. If they do make these Netflix shows more adult orientated, then perhaps it would wind up there…but why? Deadpool isn’t part of the Defenders and some of the characters that you could build a universe around him with are FOX properties. So yes, FOX isn’t moving fast enough on the Deadpool project, but at least it is still involved in the conversation. It would be laid to rest like the Punisher and Ghostrider if the rights reverted back.

  3. Thank goodness ComicCon starts tomorrow…it has been extremely boring on here lately.

  4. Good Morning all…..

    Happy Hump Day!! :)

    Random thoughts from my Wednesday morning mind….

    So, RDJ is open to coming back for IM4. That is great news, and I’m really hoping he does. Avengers:AoU is shaping up to be spectacular.

    I read that Arrow and Flash of the CW universe are not going to be part of h DCCU. How is that possible? Are we going to have two different Flashes or will Flash be omitted from h DCCU? Any thoughts on that?

    If the current rumors of SW:EP 7 are true about a floating hand holding a light saber being the starting point of the new trilogy, I’m not sure that’s going in the right direction. And there’s still Stormtroopers around 30 years after Return of the Jedi? How does that work? Is the Empire still going strong?

    Dawn of the Planet of the Apes was meh, IMO.

    Interesting how the Spiderman franchise and potential universe built around him is crumbling over at Sony. Could Marvel get the rights back?

    Jon Boyega as Black Panther? IMO, no. Somebody else, bigger, stronger and more established would be better, IMO.

    Marvel and Cap 3 still insist that they’re not moving away from BvS, I wonder who will blink first?

    I’m considering watching True Detective. Without out giving anyhing away, is it worth my time? I loved Fargo om FX.

    • @Stark:

      I don’t mind that the TV and film universes of DC are separate. This gives them more flexibility with storytelling in both media. It’s tough enough trying to please comic book readers with canonical content, so trying to connect the small screen with the big screen isn’t exactly ideal due to expectations (ie Agents of SHIELD).

      • Agreed. Maybe then we’ll also get well made versions of Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman on the CW as well. A full JL TV-verse and a movie-verse.

    • Sony can still make profits if they use a reasonable budget and cut Avi Arad loose.

      Boyega is a bit shorter than I imagined for T’Challa, but if he’s willing to train himself into an agile fighter, it could work. I was someone in the camp of Boseman and Oyelowo myself.

    • There could potentially be a number of different Flash’s. For every medium. Just assume this situation, film v television, is the same as live-action v animation. As in: would you expect Flash from Flashpoint Paradox to be in the same continuity as CW’s Flash?
      But seriously, how was “Apes” meh?
      And yes. Watch True Detective!

      • @ ScottySummersS

        It just didn’t impress me. It just seemed like a human conflict/drama using apes. The action was good, Caesar was very well done, I just thought the story could have used some more creativity. That’s just my opinion.

    • Here are my reasons why you should watch True Detective…

      1. The acting. Both McConaughey and Woody Harrelson deliver not only their best performances ever but they rival anything I’ve seen in T.V. or Movies in a good while.

      2. The story/writing. Relative newcomer Nick Pizzolatto wrote every episode and delivered one of the best serialized stories T.V. has ever aired.

      3. The directing. In a rare occurrence in television Cary Fukunaga directed every episode and the show was better for it because the season played like an 8 hour movie rather than individual episodes. As a bonus for movie/tv nerds there’s a tracking shot at the end of episode 4 that could be held up with the best of Scorsese, Cuaròn and Paul Thomas Anderson.

      If my praise seems over the top and a bit pretentious I apologize. That’s not my intent. I just think True Detective was that great and along with Breaking Bad and Game of Thrones deserves the hype it has received.

  5. @Stark:

    I highly recommend you watch True Detective. It a really incredible show, with tons of smart dialogue and MM’s character is the best.

    • +1

      True Detective is great. You should watch it Stark.

  6. When are we going to get a Marvel Version of DC’s excellent Injustice:Gods amongst us game?

    . . . . . waiting and praying for a comic con announcement

    • They haven’t developed a Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3 in a long time so I wouldn’t count on it…

  7. Also Terry Crews for black Panther ???

    • Hah good one. I assume you’re joking.

  8. This might stir some debate, but I am gonna throw it in there anyway.

    I have always had the suspicion that DC is more popular in the US and that Marvel is more popular abroad. The base for my assumption is that while DC had a long tradition and a solid fan base in the US, thanks to being the ones kick starting things, that pioneering effect did not take place elsewhere because Marvel and DC pretty much arrived at the same time. Mass distribution comics truly arrived in Europe a lot later that their original genesis, precisely coinciding with the time by which Marvel was already selling as much or even more comics than DC in the US. In other words, DC did not get in Europe the head start that it enjoyed in the US and that it still has lasting effects today.

    This theory of mine is difficult to test, but one proxy is the CBM reception. I have picked CBM that made more than a quarter of a million dollars at the worldwide box office and I have checked the domestic vs. foreign contributions to such box office. I’ll paste the table at the end but for now the conclusions:

    - 23 out of 32 movies are Marvel properties and 9 out of 32 movies are DC properties. This is undoubtedly due to the fact that Marvel properties have not one but three studios pumping movies
    - Marvel movies are on average split 43%-57% between domestic and foreign, while DC movies are on average split 52%-48% between domestic and foreign
    - Only looking from 2010 onwards: Marvel movies are on average split 37%-63% between domestic and foreign, while TDKR&MoS are on average split 42%-58% between domestic and foreign
    - Only looking at 2013&2014: Marvel movies are on average split 32%-68% between domestic and foreign, while MoS is split 44%-56% between domestic and foreign

    In both cases you can see a surge in the international box office over time, but the starting points were already quite different to begin with. The Marvel movies are going towards a 30%-70% (that was the case of ASM2 for instance), while the DC movies are aiming for the 40%-60% (that was the case of TDKR for instance). That is quite a relevant difference in statistical terms, so looking at those figures, I think it is fair to conclude that Marvel characters seem to be indeed better positioned internationally. On the other hand, it is clear that a domestic ranking would improve the rankings of the DC properties when compared to the international ranking (i.e. TDK sits at #2 domestically but #8 internationally leaving it at #4 worldwide).

    The table (sorry for the horrible format):

    Rank Movie Marvel/DC Studio Year Worldwide ($mm) Domestic ($mm) % of Total Foreign ($mm) % of Total
    1 Marvel’s The Avengers Marvel BV 2012 1,518.6 623.4 41% 895.2 59%
    2 Iron Man 3 Marvel BV 2013 1,215.4 409.0 34% 806.4 66%
    3 The Dark Knight Rises DC WB 2012 1,084.4 448.1 41% 636.3 59%
    4 The Dark Knight DC WB 2008 1,004.6 534.9 53% 469.7 47%
    5 Spider-Man 3 Marvel Sony 2007 890.9 336.5 38% 554.4 62%
    6 Spider-Man Marvel Sony 2002 821.7 403.7 49% 418.0 51%
    7 Spider-Man 2 Marvel Sony 2004 783.8 373.6 48% 410.2 52%
    8 The Amazing Spider-Man Marvel Sony 2012 757.9 262.0 35% 495.9 65%
    9 X-Men: Days of Future Past Marvel Fox 2014 725.0 230.6 32% 494.4 68%
    10 Captain America: The Winter Soldier Marvel BV 2014 711.8 258.6 36% 453.2 64%
    11 The Amazing Spider-Man 2 Marvel Sony 2014 705.0 202.1 29% 502.9 71%
    12 Man of Steel DC WB 2013 668.0 291.0 44% 377.0 56%
    13 Thor: The Dark World Marvel BV 2013 644.8 206.4 32% 438.4 68%
    14 Iron Man 2 Marvel Par 2010 623.9 312.4 50% 311.5 50%
    15 Iron Man Marvel Par 2008 585.2 318.4 54% 266.8 46%
    16 X-Men: The Last Stand Marvel Fox 2006 459.4 234.4 51% 225.0 49%
    17 Thor Marvel Par 2011 449.3 181.0 40% 268.3 60%
    18 The Wolverine Marvel Fox 2013 414.8 132.6 32% 282.2 68%
    19 Batman DC WB 1989 411.3 251.2 61% 160.1 39%
    20 X2: X-Men United Marvel Fox 2003 407.7 214.9 53% 192.8 47%
    21 Superman Returns DC WB 2006 391.1 200.1 51% 191.0 49%
    22 Batman Begins DC WB 2005 374.2 206.9 55% 167.3 45%
    23 X-Men Origins: Wolverine Marvel Fox 2009 373.1 179.9 48% 193.2 52%
    24 Captain America: The First Avenger Marvel Par 2011 370.6 176.7 48% 193.9 52%
    25 X-Men: First Class Marvel Fox 2011 353.6 146.4 41% 207.2 59%
    26 Batman Forever DC WB 1995 336.5 184.0 55% 152.5 45%
    27 Fantastic Four Marvel Fox 2005 330.6 154.7 47% 175.9 53%
    28 Superman DC WB 1978 300.2 134.2 45% 166.0 55%
    29 X-Men Marvel Fox 2000 296.3 157.3 53% 139.0 47%
    30 Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer Marvel Fox 2007 289.0 131.9 46% 157.1 54%
    31 Batman Returns DC WB 1992 266.8 162.8 61% 104.0 39%
    32 The Incredible Hulk Marvel Uni 2008 263.4 134.8 51% 128.6 49%

    • A little off topic but its interesting to see the Amazing Spiderman 2 is considered a colossal failure however it finished better than most X-men movies, Iron Man 1 and 2, Cap 1, both Thors, and Man of Steel.

      • 5 of the top 11 are Spiderman movies, which tells you a lot about the potential of this character (kids just love him).

        The thing with ASM2 is that it has been the worst of the 5 movies financially and critically it has also been one of the worst. It is the combination of the two what makes it a failure, especially when in terms of quality it really pales in comparison with the other movies this year (CA:TWS and X:DoFP)

        • The question Kurt, what about Marvel makes it appeal more to international audiences than DC?
          As a Marvelite I’m loving this!

          • To that, I don’t have an answer. Besides, that is a slippery road. For now I have only shown hard figures so people can interpret as they see fit.

            Once that’s said, I do have a theory, that I actually mentioned the other day: X-Men. As early as in the 70′s, the core team of the X-Men already had members like Ororo/Storm (from Kenia), Peter/Colossus (from Russia), Kurt/Nightcrawler (from Germany), James/Wolverine (from Canada but with a very present Japanese background), etc.

            They were the first ones going global/diverse and deviating from the only Americans super-heroes set up. That was refreshing, plus their stories were very relatable and deeper than usual (any gender, race, religion or sexual orientation discrimination could be seen as the mutant prosecution).

            Anyway, it is just a thought. I also think Spiderman and Batman are more popular/perceived cooler than for instance Captain America and Superman because the latter are obviously very American (even if one is from Krypton).

            • Yea I remember that comment. And you’re absolutely right. No other comic titles have featured minorities or other nations as X-men has. (There’s a mutant now from Afghanistan who wears a burka and controls sand) And yea Cap is just uber patriotism.
              Do you think this trend in your stats will continue? Basically will Avengers 2 become ‘highest grossing’? and for how long if Dawn of Justice releases in 2016.

              • I am convinced the trend will continue (i.e. the international markets will represent more and more of the total pie) and I think Avengers: Age of Ultron has a good chance of topping its predecessor (so far all Marvel sequels have topped its predecessors).

                Regarding where will it leave the bar? No clue and therefore no clue if BvS will be able to top that. Disney/Marvel has done a lot of concious efforts in Asia to increase their presence in that market, so I am not sure we can automatically assume that BvS will make more than Avengers: Age of Ultron. Let’s see. We are talking about really big numbers and breaking records. Hard to predict.

                • What would make the above much better is taking the following considerations: 1. inflation, 2. 3D tickets charge. The real comparison would potentially finish with TDKR very close to number one, if not at number one only behind… SM2!

                  The importance of that comparison is to understand why DC/WB believe BvS will do so well. HOWEVER, they forget that before TDKRs no one cared for batman anymore, and their newer version of the bat will be closer to those from the “happy meal toy devices” from the 90s than Nolan’s singularity within the trend.

                  If you have time, it would really be interesting to see that table unfold as per the above comments.

                  • Box Office Mojo allows you to look at tables adjusted by inflation buy Moy 3d effect I am afraid

                  • In any case, my point was the comparison between domestic and foreign (not so much across movies), so inflation or no inflation, 3d or not 3d, for a given movie, that is still valid.

    • An interesting (albeit very comic-geek, which I am) research topic.

      Thing is, I live abroad, have been for most of my life and have stayed in the US as well, and from what I gather is this: Brand-popularity for comics is highly dependent on the characters that they have. Over the years both Marvel and DC have benefited extremely by this iconic, brand-division, just as WCW and WWF did with their highest ratings to date during the years when they were competing against each other, or how Metallica and Megadeth fans say that their best years were when they were rivals. This sort “us vs. them” rivalry is ultimately very good for business and I am almost certain that big corporations are aware of this and would design entire industries around it. The Film industry in Hollywood, the way TV networks operate, the Comic Book industry (which an artist/magician/philosopher like Alan Moore loathes), the Sports Entertainment Industry, and pretty soon the Video Game Industry.

      What I want to say is that in order to test your hypothesis, sure CBMs are one way to go, but again it would be too much a profit-based approach. Why not look at what these characters, and by extension brands, mean to the sub-culture or larger culture? American entertainment has flourished around the world, and even kids in Bangladesh (where I’m from) are washed up in a popular culture that is American rather than native. And with that comes the comic-book subculture, which is fast becoming mainstream. Why not test “popularity” with awareness and cultural impact rather than monetary profit? See how those movies are considered by the mass audiences both in the US and abroad. Like Ang Lee’s Hulk was extremely well-received by fans in Saudi Arabia, the Matrix was popular in the States but banned in Egypt, Man of Steel got a weekend release in Bangladesh and was brought to theaters here because of the popularity of The Dark Knight Rises and The Avengers. Iron Man 3, the Wolverine, and TASM2 were all well-received amongst China’s cinemagoers.

      I think it goes back to the popularity of the superheroes themselves. Batman, Spider-Man, and Superman still hold a high card, but thanks to RDJ that’s shifting to Iron Man and the Avengers, and yet people are still underappreciative of Thor and Captain America. For what it’s worth, Batman is still the most popular superhero abroad.

      • I go with numbers because they are objective and measurable, all the other things you mentioned are subjective and impossible to measure. You can measure box office, comic sales, toy sales,… But no culture in abstract

  9. @ Nightcrawler

    Interesting stuff you have there. Are you a statistician? Some of the things you come up with are deep and well thought out. You’re right, it’s a tough theory to test, but you make valid points and your table suggests that you might be on to something.

    • I do have a numerical background, but those were elementary mathematics that anyone could do. Box Office Mojo plus Excel and there you go :)

      I guess what I want to illustrate is that the world is bigger than just the US, and that the market trends there don’t always equally extrapolate to the rest of the world.

      Example: when I see people saying that Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice will easily make $2bn at the box office even if the story is crap just because it has Batman and Superman in it, I have to make a pause and check the numbers.

      Avengers made $623.4mm domestically and the next one after that is TDK with $534.9mm domestically. Even if the new movie tops those two, to make $2bn worlwide it would still need to score more than $1bn internationally. Not easy at all.

      Avatar made $760.5mm domestically and $2bn internationally! That Avatar split is 27%-73%. Objectively, DC movies have not proven to have that depth in international markets yet, which ultimately is what marks the records.

      I guess we will have a better idea of potential box office after 2015 with Avengers: Age of Ultron and Star Wars: Episode VII. Those two will surely test the limits. Curious about the outcome.

  10. Rebel Alliance tactical deficiencies.

    Watching Empire last night and I got to thinking….. why are Rouge Squadron (an X-wing unit) using crappy T-47′s.

    T-65′s work in atmosphere, the cold of Hoth is nothing compared to the cold of space and a proton torpedo would make mince meat of an AT:AT

    Armchair Generals
    What other films have you seen that show a complete lack of tactical awareness…..

    • every over-the-top action movie where the baddies fight the hero one at a time instead of overwhelming him (or her) by attacking all at once.

      • Don’t forget Bond films….. poor bugger wouldn’t make it to the Binder titles if someone had half a brain….. would be a VERY short film series lol

    • Man of Steel. Superman fights Zod in the middle of Metropolis killing thousands of innocent civilians when he could have easily moved the fight outside the city, where collateral damage would have been minimized.

  11. According to a casting website, here is the synopsis for Ant-Man:
    “A scientist enlists a thief to safeguard his size-changing technology, and also to create a superhero who will defend the world.”

    Sounds like Pym will hire Lang. I’m curious how Ant-Man involves a world that needs saving though.

  12. It’s great news that Downey Jr is still down with Stark! Although I’m under the impression that Iron Man 4 is kinda unneeded, at least right now.
    Marvel has 10 releases between 2015-19 and plan on introducing a number of new characters. Why backtrack?

    Going forward, Iron Man serves a better purpose in an advisory/Nick Fury role. There’s no need to “correct” the Mandarin, at least not yet, so Iron Man 4 should be saved for later in the game.

    I honestly feel like John Boyega and Chadwick Boseman are THE best bets for Black Panther.
    Both are talented, young enough for a franchise, getting big but still under the radar so inexpensive, and Anthony Mackie and Michael B Jordan are already in CBM’s.

    If Boyega is cast, give him a solo. If Boseman gets picked, introduce T’challa in Dr Strange or something.

    I really think Melanie Laurent would be amazing as Ms Marvel. “Au re voir, Shoshannaaa!”

    • I am so fixated on Emily Blunt for Ms Marvel that I am probably going to be disappointed with anyone else…

      I don’t want an Iron Man 4 either. Keep the RDJ extra boost for Avengers now.

  13. Does anybody think BvS will be the best super hero movie in 2016? I sure think so, after Man of Steel their building batman and superman on the big screen. That is something everyone been waiting to see in a long time.

    Also saw Dawn of The Planet this past weekend it was great.

  14. Does anybody think BvS will be the best super hero movie in 2016? I sure think so, after Man of Steel their building batman and superman on the big screen. That is something everyone been waiting to see in a long time.

    Also saw Dawn of The Planet of the Apes this past weekend it was great.

  15. I just wanted to say before it’s no longer relevant that I really loved the soundtrack for Dawn of the Planet of the Apes. It really harkened back to the original in the best ways while also making the modern movie feel tense and emotional.Michael Giacchino really deserves praise here! Will be listening to it on spotify on the days to come more than likely.

  16. Am I the only one who wishes Comic Con could be televised like on pay per view or something.
    The G4 network used to broadcast from the SDCC floor but wouldn’t it be cool to watch the panels that go on in Hall H and other places as they happen.
    The Saturday night costume contest would be a blast to watch.
    Any thoughts?

    • I miss G4. :(

  17. OMG, I just found out ABC renewed Resurrection. I was really starting to think they would cancel it after the first season. I thought it was pretty interesting, but didn’t think the ratings would have been great. I’m glad it was renewed, it did end in a huge cliff-hanger, lol.

    • @Ken J – I had slight interest in that show based on the premise, but never got around to watching it. The episodes built up on my Hulu queue and finally I just deleted them. Should I go back and add it?

      Also, is anybody watching Crossbones? I’m building that up on my queue and just about ready to delete it. Is it any good?

      • @Professor Procrastination

        Well, I can’t say for certain you’d like or dislike it. Don’t know your taste in shows or movies. All I can say is that it’s not at all an action show. Nor does it have much in terms of romantic drama. It’s just more of a “WTF is happening” kind of show where you’re intrigued to watch to find out what is going on. I think the show is interesting, and I’m definitely intrigued enough to watch the second season to find out how it unfolds. But yes, don’t expect a ton of action or anything like that… So it’s up to you. I say watch the first few episodes and see if it interests you.

        • Thanks Ken J. The concept (from the trailer) intrigued me, but so did Flash Forward and that show did not hold my interest. I guess since it has been renewed, it would be worth watching knowing that more is on the way.

          Hopefully it is still on Hulu Plus ;)

          • @Professor Procrastination
            Well, like I’ve said, there’s only one real way to find out, and that’s by watching the first few episodes. Even if you end up not liking it, won’t do you any harm. :-)

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