Open Discussion – July 23, 2008

Yeah, 790 is a very good artist - sent me a cool rendition of the Terminator. :-)

Vic

Got that right Old Man, I'm about to watch "BSG,,,Unfinished Business, the Ron Moore version" on dvd.

Catch ya tomarrow !!!! :-)

“Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time.”

- The Old Man from Scene 24, Monty Python and the Holy Grail :)

You should change your name to the Riddler, Old Man,
Yeah 790, surfs, if that's your deffinition.

I've even sent Vic some of my art work he can comment on it of he likes.
Plus I also write, and I am currently writing a few script outlines.

Yeah 790 rides the waves. ;-)

Apoc now , best war movie ever....

And yes "Apocalypse Now" is a fav of mine too.

Being an artist is like surfing because your constantly balancing on an ever changing surface. Even the very best wipe out sometimes. We live in an ever more complicated world. It would be nice if we all could learn how to surf.. :)

Well the act of having nothing to loose is also part of the act,, Old Man,, but you know that....

790 don't surf, Major....
So I guess I'll fight... ;-)

Artist hang it out there like that all the time. Their risk takers. The best always are. Do you surf 790?

Well Old Man,there was a certain suicidal side to the Nicholson Joker, but it wasn't as in-your face as Ledgers.

Tragically it seems as if Nolan cast Heath Ledger in a time that he was suicidal, and it came out in the performance.
I can totally see Nolan going along with Heath as an actors Director he would be open to whatever direction Heath wanted to take it, and the suicidal angle only made the Joker more dangerous.

Heath had to realise that his heath was in jepordy taking all those pills, those are pretty clear signs of depression.
It seems he was self medicating and things happen.
unless foul play was involved, how are we really too know ??

All stories match certain archetypes. That's easy to see right. So if its stale, it's boring. The cardinal sin! So how do you take the archetypal story and make it interesting. It's always been the challenge. We the audience quibble about the boundaries. It use to be, and to some extent still, that some person who had or made a name for them selves stood in our place to represent our collective artistic sense. The art critic. Technology has and is breaking down those barriers that in many ways made it impractical for the public in general to hold a two way conversation with the mass media artist.

Your gonna have to spell it out for me Old Man, cause I don't think I know wtf your talking about.

"The suicidal aspect was a NEW twist on the Joker."

Their's the key 790 and the challenge, to make it new. Really, and all of you know this, all stories have been told before!

for me Joker and Zface were perfect as I would like them. The Joker is crazy as hell, so a bit suicidal, why not :). If Dent had pulled the trigger, he had lost from that instant. He and his coin, for me, he hides behind the fair chances, he can say it was the coin that had him to pull the trigger or not. And that was nice with him in the car of the mobboss, he didn't shoot him, but the driver got bad luck. Dent is still a bit of a fair man, but with a certain rage.
And batman taking the blame, for the reasons he said, yeah, why not, that's what a real hero would do. Some truth is better left untold, like in the real world.

greets

The suicidal aspect was a new twist on the Joker. I have to wonder if Heath suggested that direction to Nolan or if it was Nolans idea ???

Rob,,,,
I got the converstion but it didn't seem real to me.

I guess one prob I have with the 2Face scene in the hospital is that coin or no coin character trait or not, emotionally Dent would have pulled the trigger on Joker. The gun could have been unloaded. ??
They could have wrote that scene a little different. That's all I'm suggesting. And they could have done it in a way that would have convinced me Dent was more control of his revenge.

The part of blame on Batman drags the film down at the end like. (IMO)
So many criminals and cops have broken the law, singling out Batman was a joke. (IMO).
Batman feeling all the guilt was insulting to the character. (IMO).

But I'm not a hardcore comic student of Batman. Maybe he's supposed to be kinda guilt ridden ?? And maybe Dent is a guy blinded by his favorite quarter ??
;-)

and you're missing the point of what the scene is all about. Joker's creating his usual chaos by converting the once-ultimate good character dent , making him chaotic as well which would destroy the city.

This is the same reason he wants Batman to kill him with the batpod and at the end, to take Batman down and create chaos.

This is why at the end, Batman takes the fall as the already-though-of-vigilante to keep Dent as the so-called saving grace of the city.

wait, why should it have been different. You are saying they *should* have written Two-face's character incorrectly to make the film better?

well if that's the case, there shouldn't be any coin at all...then we might as well get rid of joker's makeup while were at it, lol

SPOILER***zzz

Yeah well we don't really know if 2Face is dead yet.
I thought Scarecrow was behind bars so who knows.

I don't think Bats has to worry too much about copycats now, Joker made sure of that.
^
You guys see the trailers for "Swing Vote" and Rightous Kill". Wow they both looked sooooo bad...

SPOILERS***

I was disappointed that 2face died - and Batman taking the blame is a cool concept, but why him?? It's flimsy to start with considering 2face is at the scene, just say it was the Joker's henchmen.

Maybe we'll see in the next one that Bats wanted to take the blame to further make himself an outsider or prevent future copycat crime fighters.

Anyone else catch the Cat reference when Burce and Lucious were talking about the suit??? "Dunno about dogs, maybe cats?"

you cant write it differently.
2face follows the coin.
I knew he used it .
it was clear enough to me.

Yeah I get what you mean Rob, but realistically Joker was reason he lost everything. The scene should have been writen differently that's all I'm saying.

Two face's character always flips the coin...that's his character...why should he pull the trigger and have the film destroy what the character is all about?

You guys can get more more timely updates on my Comic-Con adventure by following me at http://twitter.com/screenrant .

Vic

No worries Brooster. Yeah the whole 2face thing bugged me.
And the dumbest cops in USA have got to Gothem's. "Hey there's a diversion, better go around it.". Wtf wth wts??
^
Niall don't feel too bad I'm in LA and I still can't make it down there. Its about 150 miles to SD. :-)
(IMO) what sucks about England is the 8 hour time differnce. :-(

SPOILERS***


Yeah that bullet. was another wtf. It would have been deformed. Muzzle flash would have wiped the print gone.
That speech Freeman made about illegalites of wire taping made me laugh. Half the cops are corrupt and he's about to resign over Waynes mobile phone taps. Haha.

I hated the ending.
Let's pretend I'm runnng from the cops. Yeah ok. Go Batman Go!

Sorry greenknight.....790, I could be wrong, but i thought he was buckleing up...and I was just being sarcastic towards the movie in that last post..not trying to be a smart a$$..sorry if it came off that way...

Guys, I think, in the future, we should put "*** SPOILER ALERT ***" before any post that may have spoilers, even responses. Sorry about that greenknight.

yeah some TDK SPOILERS following

::::::::::::::::::

Just seen TDK, and WOW, the Joker, damn, if he doesn't get that Oscar... legendary performance, truely, nobody will ever pull that off again!

The only thing a disliked (yeah ok, didn't really like the replacing of Katie Holmes either..) was the CSI-like gadgets Batman had, with that bullet and fingerprint, and than the giant sonar-wall. For me, ok they luckily they didn't use them TOO much, that was a bit over the top.
But that was the only (tiny) downside. All the rest, instant classic.

greets

Hope the Spoiler alert worked Greenknight333.


No Brooster I could have sworn he unbuckled it and was getting ready to bail. ??

I think they overdid his scarring. The cgi looked truly disturbing.

what? you did not see 2 face buckle his seat belt right before he shot the driver? of course that would have saved him from that accident...but of course a 30 foot fall killed him...supposedly...