‘Man of Steel’ Ending Controversy & The ‘Superman II’ Hypocrisy

Published 1 year ago by , Updated April 8th, 2014 at 7:06 am,

Man of Steel Superman II Zod Death Superman Kills Man of Steel Ending Controversy & The Superman II Hypocrisy

[WARNING! THIS POST CONTAINS MAJOR MAN OF STEEL SPOILERS!!!]

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Look around the Internet these days and you’ll hear a buzz about the new Superman reboot movie Man of Steel, and aside from some pretty divisive opinion about whether the movie is good or not (read our review), one of the biggest topics of discussion is the climatic battle between Superman (Henry Cavill) and General Zod (Michael Shannon), in which Superman is faced with the choice of watching Zod vaporize an innocent family or killing the ruthless general – ultimately (and controversially) choosing to do the latter.

There’s been vocal outrage on the part of some fans who feel betrayed by the notion of a  Superman who kills – but is the outrage legitimate?

In recent days we’ve heard from Man of Steel director Zack Snyder and writer David S. Goyer, who revealed to Empire that in an original version of the script, Superman returns Zod to the Phantom Zone prison where he belongs – until Snyder convinced Goyer and producer/story writer Chris Nolan that Zod’s ending should be more permanent:

….David, Chris and I had long talks about it, and I said that I really feel like we should kill Zod, and that Superman should kill him. The ‘Why?’ of it for me was that if was truly an origin story, his aversion to killing is unexplained… I wanted to create a scenario where Superman, either he’s going to see [Metropolis' citizens] chopped in half, or he’s gotta do what he’s gotta do.

dark superman by eliaskhasho d338bj9 Man of Steel Ending Controversy & The Superman II Hypocrisy

Collider and other sites have been critical of such reasoning – and even Mark Waid, writer of one of the comic books that influenced Man of Steel‘s story, stated on his blog Thrillbent that he was NOT happy with that moment of the film:

Superman wins by killing Zod. By snapping his neck. And as this moment was building, as Zod was out of control and Superman was (for the first time since the fishing boat 90 minutes ago) struggling to actually save innocent victims instead of casually catching them in mid-plummet, some crazy guy in front of us was muttering “Don’t do it…don’t do it…DON’T DO IT…” and then Superman snapped Zod’s neck and that guy stood up and said in a very loud voice, “THAT’S IT, YOU LOST ME, I’M OUT,” and his girlfriend had to literally pull him back into his seat and keep him from walking out and that crazy guy was me. That crazy guy was me, and I barely even remember doing that, I had to be told afterward that I’d done that, that’s how caught up in betrayal I felt. And after the neck-snapping, even though I stuck it out, I didn’t give a damn about the rest of the movie.

To be fair, Waid does go on to give a more level-headed explanation, saying he thinks the film failed to establish Superman’s concern with ordinary people to with enough emphasis to “earn” that moment of snapping Zod’s neck, though he did acknowledge the character’s anguish in the aftermath (that now infamous scream). Superman’s lack of concern for collateral damage has been something MANY people have criticized Man of Steel for – so Waid (who knows the character pret-ty well) does have a point, perhaps.

…But I ask again: Does NOBODY remember Superman II?

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The Superman II Hypocrisy

general zod Man of Steel Ending Controversy & The Superman II Hypocrisy

Richard Donner’s sequel to Superman: The Movie told a darker tale that centered on Superman wanting giving up his powers in exchange for a normal life with Lois Lane – until evil Kryptonians General Zod, his lieutenant, Ursa, and brute enforcer Non all start using their newfound super powers to wreak havoc on Earth (sound familiar?). The movie ends with the now famous scene of Superman, Lois, Lex Luthor, Zod and his minions all having a Mexican standoff in the Fortress of Solitude. Superman craftily uses his de-powering chamber in reverse, restoring his own powers and stripping the bad guys of theirs. He then proceeds to murder General Zod!

If you’ve (somehow) never seen it, watch the climax of Superman II for yourself:

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TAGS: superman, superman man of steel

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  1. Worst Superman Film Ever! Annoying from beginning to end! Unoriginal Ideas! The first couple of seasons of Smallville was a much better watch! Would superman really watch his own dad die before his eyes regardless of what his father had to say about it!?

    • Really? Worse Superman film ever? Geez some people are ungrateful Jack—–. This movie was fantastic, exhilerating and touching. How would you like it if they decided to NEVER make another Superhero movie at all, EVER?

      The scene where he has to watch his dad die is part of what built him into going into such seclusion and mystery until finally confronted with what he really is, does he come out of hiding.

      And for all the idiots who want to think they really know Superman (ie: “Superman doesn’t kill! – so i’m going to rant and whine and stomp my feet like an idiot because that’s just what I want to believe) I should remind you that Superman *did* kill the three Kryptonians in Superman 2, he did kill Nuclear Man in Superman 4 and since he lifted the Krpyonite Island in Superman Returns he second-handedly killed some of Lex Luthors minions (the structures fell on them and crushed them)….oh and there’s that comic Superman #22 1988 where Superman executes Zod Faora and Quex-Ul (he uses gold Kryptonite to depower them then Green Kryptonite to execute them).

      Having said that, it should be understood that it was a desperate last resort. The criminals vowed to find a way to get their powers back and then find their way to Supermans dimension and Earth and kill everyone there as well. This mirrors the situation he was put in at the end of Man of Steel…you could tell he didn’t want to and he was upset that he had to…VERY upset. It’s whats built him to realize why he will never do it again….except for the “Superman” in the game Injustice: Gods Among Us where he apparently goes insane and kills the Joker, Green Arrow and Shazam.

      In response to someones complaint that Perry White is played by a black actor…this seems to be the norm with movies these days because the comics were written at a time where people didnt write about black characters. He did the role well so that didn’t bother me, may have been a little different if they made Lois black…then I could see why you might be upset.

      I think the only logical complaint i’ve come across was that Lois found out his identity….and apparently forgot it at the end of the movie.

      So if you’re going to complain about it, come armed with good ammo but all you’re going to do it make a dumb of yourself.

      And for the record, I only loved the first Transformer movie.

      • Would we rather they never made another super hero movie again ? where did that come from?

        If that is a bottomless pit then all Superman did was break his hand. Zod would probably have to hit bottom to be killed. Then of course you have to assume that he never flew down to scoop them up. And we don’t know what that pit really is. It may lead to the Fortress prison.

        In the comics Superman did make a decision to kill Zod but that does not mean that Superman was right or in character there or in Superman II.

        No matter what the movies or the comics or Smallville t.v. show script for actors and artists to do. Superman is a concept bigger than them. That is why it is still impossible to make a good Superman movie.

        As for Perry White, I was more upset about him wearing an earring than I was about his skin color.

        • That comes from the fact that all people do is whine about this or that being different from the comic. People need to get a grip, it’s not like they made Superman Chinese or something and that he grew up in California.

          Main thing is the incorrect statement that “Superman Never Kills”. Fact is yes he did kill Zod in Superman 2. He crushed his hand and then threw him into the wall and he slid down into the pit. If we were to assume it led to a prison then we could assume Elsa in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade fell into a prison as well or anyone else who fell into a pit. That is too idealistic to think like that. He killed in Superman 2, Superman 4 (Nuclear Man) and in Superman Returns.

          Batman Never Kills – he killed the Joker in the first movie, he killed Two Face in The Dark Knight why isn’t everyone going insane about those? They bring up Tony Stark not being a killer but he’s killed in all three movies.

          People are hooping and hollering like they did when Heath Ledger was announced as Joker and all they could cite as the reason why they didn’t like him as the Joker was because of Brokeback Mountain.

          I don’t want to say he blew away Jack Nicholson’s Joker but he did bring it to a more maniacal level reminiscent of the dark movie that it was. Nicholson’s Joker was the last remnant of comical and Ledgers was pure insanity. They both nailed it in their own way.

          I guess what i;m most mad about is the people who just can’t get past this killing thing….it wasn’t like a cold-blooded murder. It was gut wrenching and it tore up Superman afterwards.

          • Lolwut almost everything else you said was valid and had a point except saying Batman killed Two Face. He did not, that death was an accident, illustrated by “a fall from this height won’t kill me” scene with Maroni. And yes he did kill in the Burton movies but then they don’t even count in the first place, do they? Because they were so terrible.

            • You’re kidding right? He leapt at him and threw/pushed him over the edge.

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJma8pVAvH4

              Batman has always risked himself to save anyone *anyone* whose life was in danger. He “let” Ra’s Al Ghul die in the first movie, something he would never do. He killed Two-Face as shown in the clip above. And the Burton movies were the best of the original movies. The Shumacher films are best pretending they are a nightmare.

          • Tony Stark may not directly be a killer, but he indirectly was heavily involved as a weapons manufacturer. I guess people think as long as you’re not pulling the trigger, you’re innocent. I feel if you’re supplying the ammo, you’re indirectly behind whatever may happen. And I think they pretty much show his guilt when he sees the ‘bad side’ of his weapons in the wrong hands. He not only gave up creating and selling weapons, he built a mechanic suit he then flew to the terrorists using his weapons in order to stop them.

            Next time “They” say Tony’s not a killer, ask ‘them’ why he took responsibility for it.

      • Big smile, herr fanboy! =/

      • THIS.

    • Clearly, you’ve never seen Superman 3 or 4.

    • worst? lol. in smallville, superman killed his own father by going back in time to save lana and even superman father told him to not blame himself for his own death. that he died protecting his secret and superman dad knew he would die to protect the secret.

    • you apparently did not see superman 4: the quest for peace

  2. Im not speaking for my self here but i gotta say that id rather stick to reading my comic books than going to see a super hero flick any day.I mean yes i did state on here that i would go see the rumord justice league movie if it comes out but after seeing man of steel i gotta say that im really second guessing my self.Why? because alot of these films seriosly dont come out right (at least to my oponion)and some really do disgrace the history of the super heros.Ok i would love to run down man of steel for an example.Here Goes

    numb 1.Superman kills Zod-Ok big no no right there.Through out history superman never and wasnt supposed to kill,being meant for that fighting but good hearted hero at the same time.All credit taken away here.

    Numb 2.Destruction-To much of it in all honesty.I thought this made the film fun to watch but i couldnt forget the fact that he was putting people in danger at the same time. I know super heros are supposed to have balls but i compared this to a brawl between 2 people with the use of weopanry out of control in the process.

    Numb 3.Perry White as a Black Man-Im not being rasist or any thing but to my opinion id rather have seen perry white a white guy instead,it just fits more correctly to me because in all the superman comics ive read including the ones with out any color perry white has always been white.

    Numb 4. Lois lane knows that clark kent is superman-Another big no no,In any super hero situation that is.To me that just breaks the most important rule in the world of super heros and that is never let any one know your real identity behind the mask or scenes.

    Over thought-Pretty much a D- film some great actors but alot of really bad flaws.

    • You, my friend, are what I would call a “purist”. Nothing wrong with that. But I don’t think the studios are gonna sell many tickets to see the “same” story and characters over and over for all eternity.

      I think the comic books are a lot more limited in the area of change as regards canon because the core group of buyers would bug out.

      Change may not be good but it is inevitable.

      • Change can be great– like creating a new comic-book movie about a new character who isn’t like the old characters. If people want to see new stuff, give it to them, instead of ruining great old characters for audiences who don’t know any better- it’s like handing over family heirlooms for a kid’s school-art project. I’m not a comic-book-canon guy but I do recognize that a good character is one which is well-defined, and if you take a well-defined character and start messing with its core characteristics, it’s extremely unlikely that you’re making the character ‘better’.

        Also I’d like to note that the film companies have been INTENTIONALLY re-doing the same films over and over with the same villains, despite the fact that there is way more material in the comics which has never been touched. Apparently it’s cool to see people with the same names and personalities over and over and over, except with different costumes on and a little more ‘darkness’ sprinkled on it every time.

      • I agree, and it’s time for these people to face reality and not fantasy (as much as this movie is fantasy.)

    • I’m curious. What was your rating for Superman 2?

  3. Mr.Young, you’re fired.

    • @Bizarro – Am I now? Why is that?

      Paul

  4. Superman:
    1: Louis Lane may be “the best at what she do”, but if she could find out Superman’s real identity just by following a trail, there are many other people (or agencies…) that could (with a lot more man power and ease)!? She fell in love w/Superman!

    2. The scene of his childhood and him traveling the world was probably the most interesting/original part of the movie. It was new and kept my attention! A “darker side of superman” at least as any teenager, would enjoy having his superpowers! If your stronger than everyone else…you don’t have to fit in. Your a boss! Who cares if your called a freak!?

    3. In the series ‘Smallville’, Clark Kent’s father (Jonathon) died from a natural disease, which is 10x more believable than Kent Clark watching him being killed by a Tornado and not doing absolutely nothing about it. This is despite the fact that his father wanted to keep his abilities a secret! By this time, kent was grown, so you’d think his good hearted “SUPERMAN” ideals would have kicked in by now???

    4. I can’t criticize the character of Lois Lane much in this movie except that she was annoying, I’m not sure why but she was! She did make a good reporter however, (maybe thats why, but…???)watever

    • Lois in this movie was a quadrillion times better than Kate Bosworth in Superman Returns. At least in this movie she had the characteristics of a reporter and someone with a moral compass.

      Smallville sucked. They basically made him face all the villains he fights against as Superman while he was still Clark or “the blur”…it was supposed to be a story about Clark Kent and it should have had a definitive end before all that madness.

      The only flaw I saw in the movie was her finding out who he was. Don’t know if there was some kind of memory thing that kicked in like they did in the old Superman II movie but the rest of it was fantastic.

  5. Someone has probably already done this, but what they hey…

    “Superman can, knowing that Zod is powerless, brutally kill him in cold bold. No one bats an eye. But if he snaps Zod’s neck when Zod is an immediate and deadly threat who is about to kill a family….well then everyone loses their minds!!!”

  6. I realized all most of the holes in the movie, superman watching his father die etc etc. I was willing to let most of them pass and say this is an ok movie bu one nagging issue still plagued me no matter how i tried ti look past it. and that is How on earth could Kal el kill general Zod in a Grappling match!!! General Zod a soldier cloned and bred to Defend the planet Krypton, a planet formidable in warfare apparently so formidable that they had become similar to certain DBZ Characters i.e. Search for Planets and Conquer. Then there’s Clark raised on a farm. General Zod Himself said it and if there’s one thing i like about this incarnation is that he’s not a typical bad guy throwing about foolish boasts and lies he’s a General doing his duty. I think they should have gone with the other idea of zod going back to the Phantom zone cuz for me it just killed the whole vibe

    • I could say Zod hadn’t fully reached Kal’s power level yet. It seemed he was still getting stronger throughout the fight.

      However, I think there’s a better answer to that “hole.”

      From what Zod said, “I exist only to protect Krypton. That is the sole purpose for which I was born. Every action I take, no matter how violent or how cruel, is for the greater good of my people. And now I have no people. My soul… THAT is what YOU have taken from ME!” “I’m going to make them suffer, Kal! These humans you’ve adopted. I’m going to take them all from you one by one.” Then later “This only ends one of two ways. Either you die or I do.”

      Zod wanted to die. He put Kal-El in a position where the only way to stop him was to kill him. This is even more obvious because he’s burning the same hole in the wall for like thirty seconds. Clearly, he can see the people even while his eyes are ablaze. Why doesn’t he just look over to the right WITH HIS EYES instead of staring straight forward while trying to turn his whole head if he really wants to kill them? This should’ve been made more clear through a realization from Superman himself at the end, but maybe that would’ve been beating people over the head. The only mistake I would’ve changed to make it more clear is I would’ve had Zod personally viciously killing people barehanded as they were fighting.

      I agree there really was too much destruction with Superman seemingly oblivious to most of it. I understand it was meant to showcase their power in visually stunning way. However, they really could’ve had Superman attempt to fly or knock Zod out of the city and Zod intentionally bring them back to fight there. That would’ve taken care of that, but to have Superman not even try? I was literally talking at the screen for him to knock Faora and the big dude out of the first town and then when Zod and him were in space I’m like don’t let him go back to metropolis!

      Oh well. It definitely could’ve been better, but it was at least more enjoyable than Superman Returns. I like Henry Cavill as Superman a lot better than Brandon Routh.

      • I’d challenge the argument that Zod could have just turned his eyes to the right without turning his head. The heat vision wasn’t shooting out of his pupils but the eyes. For a comparison to what I mean, jump to Marvel’s Cyclops.
        Can Cyclops shoot an optic blast in any direction without turning his head? If he ever crossed his eyes looking at the tip of his nose, he’d shoot it right off.

        Just my thought on that particular part.

  7. I always assumed that they slid down into sum kinda chamber or pit since supes and Lois were so casually happy and smiley about it and later on Superman came and took them back into the phantom zone. Guess I was wrong about that one

  8. This has so gone off topic.it was supposed to be a thread about Kal-El killing Zod.well if all the ppl on here go see MOS2 it should do well finacially if nothing else.i personally loved MOS and have seen it 3 times now.the killing of Zod was always gonna be controversial.how many more ppl went to see MOS when they heard about this do you think.Warner could not have paid for better publicity.roll on MOS2

  9. Many people will undoubtedly have corrected you but what the hell, why not one more.
    The original Donner cut had a different ending-and as its already out-the original had superman reverse the events in the movie the same way he did in 1.
    Man of Steel wasn’t just a bad movie, it was a major failure on every level.
    Now there are people who like it, but those are the same who love every transformers movie.

    • Not exactly there bub. That’s a bit of an over generalization. I never really enjoyed the transformers films but as a comic book fan, I absolutely enjoyed MOS. I don’t feel like it was a major at all levels at all. This elitism on hating the ending and anything MOS is moronic on so many different levels. It’s simply a different incarnation of the hero, respect that.

  10. OK i like the new superman im glad he killed zod at least in this one zod got killed with his powers in the first superman 2 superman strip him then killed him that’s kinda cheap i think no i like this one better i look forward to the next one

  11. Yes, more explanations of why a flawed film wasn’t flawed, with inaccurate references and subjective logic.

    • Yes no explanation as to why this is a “flawed film”. Yes, it wasn’t perfect, but it was a good movie.

      It helps to have a conversation to actually point out what you’re referring to instead of just throwing out random comments.

      If you’re talking about Superman killing Zod, where’s the inaccurate references. There is comic book (which this is based on, a comic book character) reference to Superman killing Zod previously. While it is true, that no one knows what happened to Zod at the end of Superman II (it was left vague), in Superman #22 (from 1988 I believe), Superman does kill a depowered Zod (and his two friends).

      Now, if you didn’t like the movie that’s your right to do. But don’t try to come across holier than thou.

  12. Zod dead that brilliant and the destruction well people that’s where lex Luther comes in to invest his money to the city and bring down a god with his mind.. so the movie was a good start most people don’t really know what they want from a movie matter in fact how about you make a superman movie go on.

    • There’s always going to be haters ripping the movie apart. Nobody is ever going to be happy.

      The only thing I didn’t like about it was Lois finding out who he is, but apparently forgetting at the end????

      • @Tony

        Uh, she didn’t forget, she knows who he is, she just pretended not to know since they were in public. What was she supposed to do when she saw him, scream out “Hey Superman, what are you doing here??” in front of everyone???

  13. The spin doctoring continues.

  14. If they wanted to pull back the veil of what truly happened to Superman’s dad, why don’t they just tell the truth? o.O He probably spoke out against someone big and they’re still attempting to blackball his surviving family into oblivion. Again I say it wasn’t just coincidence that Mario Puzo was tapped to write the story of Donner’s Superman. Superman is the son of Don Corleone because Brando was On The Waterfront.

  15. Need I remind everyone that Batman holds the no killing rule as much as, if not more than Superman.

    He tried to kill Jack Napier in 1989 Batman, he did kill him when he became the Joker at the end of the movie. For all intents and purposes he killed the Penguin in Batman Returns, he killed Harvey Two-Fave in The Dark Knight.

    Sometimes s*** happens.

    I should also remind of how many people and metahumans Superman killed in Injustice, Gods Among Us.

    Wait, i know, I know….that’s a “different” Superman.

    I have news for you, this is also a different Superman…it’s the movie Superman, just like all the different Supermen in the Elseworlds, the one-shots, everything.

    Instead of looking at all the flaws in the movie, look at all the amazing things!. The costume was great (much much better than Superman Returns!), the actor was much better than Brandon Routh, we finally get a formidable villain….

    • Again, I haven’t seen it but JUST the costume makes me want to see it really bad lol it is the most amazing Superman costume ever.

      • I personally loved it.

        I went to see it at a dollar movie theater because I hadn’t had the chance to when in regular theatres.

        There’s always going to be haters. Best to see for yourself then judge it.
        Even if you have to rent it.

    • To your point, Id also like to point out that Batman did ALOT of killing in his early days. He used guns, and shot a whole lot of bad guys. He even let a guy fall to his death and simply said “thats what scum like him deserve”. The no killing rule didnt even happen until just before Robin was introduced. As for supes killing zod? It made sense. This is a superman who just started. His making mistakes is okay because he was just learning what it means to be a hero. Plus, when you take a look at the comics (especially the doomsday arc) He tends to have a lot of fights that result in big chunks of the city being destroyed. So in a way, Snyder and company did some justice to the character. Oh, and one other thing: he killed Zod in the comics too. He used gold Kryponite to take zods powers away and then killed him using green kryptonite. If everyone is going to pull out comic book ‘facts’ about their favorite boy scout, they should at least research it first. Im not even a fan of superman, and i was aware of this fact.

    • Id just like to point out that Batman did ALOT of killing in his early days. He used guns, and shot a whole lot of bad guys. He even let a guy fall to his death and simply said “thats what scum like him deserve”. The no killing rule didnt even happen until just before Robin was introduced. As for supes killing zod? It made sense. This is a superman who just started. His making mistakes is okay because he was just learning what it means to be a hero. Plus, when you take a look at the comics (especially the doomsday arc) He tends to have a lot of fights that result in big chunks of the city being destroyed. So in a way, Snyder and company did some justice to the character. Oh, and one other thing: he killed Zod in the comics too. He used gold Kryponite to take zods powers away and then killed him using green kryptonite. If everyone is going to pull out comic book ‘facts’ about their favorite boy scout, they should at least research it first. Im not even a fan of superman, and i was aware of this fact.

  16. I haven’t seen it yet, but I doubt the destruction in this movie was worse than, say anything in the DCAU or Superman Doomsday, so why all the complaining?

  17. Id just like to point out that Batman did ALOT of killing in his early days. He used guns, and shot a whole lot of bad guys. He even let a guy fall to his death and simply said “thats what scum like him deserve”. The no killing rule didnt even happen until just before Robin was introduced. As for supes killing zod? It made sense. This is a superman who just started. His making mistakes is okay because he was just learning what it means to be a hero. Plus, when you take a look at the comics (especially the doomsday arc) He tends to have a lot of fights that result in big chunks of the city being destroyed. So in a way, Snyder and company did some justice to the character. Oh, and one other thing: he killed Zod in the comics too. He used gold Kryponite to take zods powers away and then killed him using green kryptonite. If everyone is going to pull out comic book ‘facts’ about their favorite boy scout, they should at least research it first. Im not even a fan of superman, and i was aware of this fact.

  18. I hate it when people say stuff like, “in a deleted scene,” or, “in the donner cut.” We are dealing with the theatrical release of the Man Of Steel. Comparing it to Superman II’s theatrical release, we see that Zod is killed in both. It may have been more ambiguous in S2, but we have no reason to believe that he does not fall to his death, and we are not shown that that is not the case. There are three versions of Superman 2. In the original theatrical version, he kills Zod, with no remorse. In the International cut, he hands them over to arctic patrol for incarceration. In the Donner cut, he rewinds time like the first movie so that they never escaped the Phantom Zone.

    I prefer Man of Steel’s handling of this situation to any of those three.

  19. You’re using Smallville to defend Man of Steel? LOL!

  20. Actually – if you’d taken you time to do your research you would know that the Word of God on Zod’s fate (also shown in another cut of the film which sometimes finds its way onto TV) is that the three desuperized villains were only knocked unconscious and not killed and were collected from the Fortress by the military and taken away to serve time in a human prison.

    • Though to be fair, most people aren’t going to know this, and shouldn’t have to.

      If “the Word of God” wanted this to be “known”, then it should have been included in the movie itself (and not just a special rarely seen version).

      As far as the viewing audience knows, Zod and friends went over the edge.

      To a prison, to their death, back to the Phantom Zone?

      No one really knows.

    • Typically the canon endings of films are the theatrical versions, that’s why they have directors cuts…to show “alternate versions”.

      Superman crushed Zod’s hand. He CRUSHED it. Then he threw him against an ice wall into a pit where he probably either froze to death or died from the fall. There is a saying in short story writing calls “show, don’t tell”. They showed them falling and screaming. There was never any mention of them in the future movies and even assuming that they fell into a prison, he destroyed the Fortress with his googly eye stare thing at the end of the movie…the Fortess Fell Apart.

      You people are making yourselves dumber and dumber with your defence of this movie.

      Superman never had any mind control or TK powers in the comics, yet he and the three Zoners not only had TK powers, but teleportation, and this kiss thing Superman did to make Lois “forget”.

      Let’s not forget him going back to beat up the restaurant bully at the end of Superman II….real Superman like to beat up a normie.

      …and then he has sex with Lois as a normie and somehow managed to have a kid with Lois that has his powers??

      …AND Superman uses his TK powers in Superman IV to rebuild the Wall of China.

      So please don’t compare Man of Steel to the Reeve movies, there’s more wrong with them than there was with this one.

      The fact that they had to show the arctic police in the TV version proves that because you don’t see them in theatrical version that they are dead.

  21. Nailed it! I remember thinking as a child “that’s some cold s***!” Zod and the villains were already depowered and could have easily been sent off to jail. Instead, Superman sadistically breaks the villain’s hand and kills him for good measure. He gets a pass for Non, cause, well you saw what happened.

    I really can’t understand the outrage. What would have been a stupid ending is Superman knocks Zod out, and Zod is sent off to a super prison. The movie had established there is only one being left on Earth who can deal with this mess, and frankly he had no choice.

    “There’s only one way this ends, Kal…”

  22. Goyer did an interview and made a very good point. It was that the film has to be “their” interpretation of Superman. *Their* story. He pointed out that if you try to cater to the masses and appease them all, it will become a convoluted mess and the script won’t ever get done.

    Do you think if/when they come out with a Robotech movie that the Veritechs should be transformable F-14 Tomcats? They aren’t even used anymore. They were at the time the show was made but it wouldn’t make sense anymore. The fanboys will be a’screamin and a’hollerin when it comes out too.

    Try watching it from the perspective of all you know about Superman (outside the movie)is:

    - he is a good guy
    - he is an Alien
    - he was sent to Earth from a planet about to blow up
    - his powers
    - some of the characters (Perry, Jimmy, Lois, Jorel)

  23. Goyer shouldn’t listen to fans and fans shouldn’t pay to see his works. If he has such little regard for the people paying for what he does, then who needs him.

    • If a director had to figure out a way to make everyone happy, he would go mad. You can’t ever make everyone happy, you’re going to piss someone off. This holds true to practically everything.

      He made the movie to the best of his ability while trying not to emulate the films of the past, putting a fresh new spin on it. What more can you ask for?

      Aside from Corman’s Fantastic Four, I don’t think directors set out to make a crappy film because it ruins their credibility and potential for future contracts.

      And at no point did I or Goyer state “shouldn’t listen to the fans”. All I said (which was paraphrased) that trying to appease everyone will result in a mess.

  24. I never comment on movies (and I’ve seen thousands, literally), but Man of Steel has been the worst, gayest, pathetic remake ever. Smallville rips it. Certainly the original Superman movie.

  25. I have only just watched this movie! Yes that’s right folks, a bit of late starter.

    I’m not going to write an awful lot but I will express two points:

    1) Let us not put all superhero films in the same basket. I, for one am not of any superheros with the exception of Superman, always have been, ever since my memory began to store my conscious mind’s actions and experiences. So let’s focus with this particular one. Superman is a diverse character/ story that can be manipulated so long as we remain true to its original concept. e.g Alien dude, handsome, almost a demi god, loves lois lane and embraces humanity and protects it.

    2) (Really short this one) In the majority of case when the protagonist of the story acts in such a way which would be regarded as unethical in modern day western society, there tends to be a time or an opportunity for that character to redeem itself. superman DID kill Zod in Superman 2 and if anything this Zod was much darker than from the original movie. He is clearly shaken after killing him (not that he should be)

  26. Yeah, it’s not getting any better. Death and destruction just aren’t Superman. Oh, he didn’t kill Zod in Superman II. Do the research.

    • Really Waldae I don’t know where or how you interpret movies but it must be a happy little world. Superman CRUSHED Zod’s hand then threw him against the ice wall where he vanished down below. There were no Arctic Police so even assuming he fell into some kind of prison, Superman even destroyed the Fortress with his movie given mind powers so even if he didn’t fall to his death, the Fortress would have collapsed on all three of them.

      Eat my snow….and ice.

      But not the yellow snow. Lex peed there when he thought he was a goner.

  27. Waldae, will you get over yourself and stop repeating the same mantra.Theatrical release Superman kills Zod. The end!

    • Dude, if it’s a mantra, you have to keep saying it over an over. That’s the point!

      Superman didn’t kill Zod! Do your research. Zod fell down a shaft, and we don’t see him afterwards. There are two other films showing what did happen, but you ignore them so can continue to say what is inaccurate. Superman killed Zod in Man of Steel, and that’s it. He didn’t even kill him in Superman #22, Quex-Ul did that. A little research goes a long way.

  28. Quex-Ul didn’t do anything but grab Zod as he was dying…then they both slumped to the floor. I read the very comic two days ago. Doesn’t matter even if Quex-Ul killed Zod before the Kryptonite did, the point everyone is trying to make here is that Superman has killed before and it’s devastated him. Even if Quex-Ul did strangle Zod before the kryptonite did him in, he killed Faora and Quex-Ul and he blames himself for killing all three of them.

    You’re trying so desperately to grasp at straws and there’s no way you can win the argument against printed facts.

    • He was strangling him with the last of his strength! He killed Zod as he was dying. Oh, but he didn’t kill Zod before the Kryptonite, eh? You’re sure of that, though there’s no way to know aside of what you believe, even though there’s a clear image of him doing it.

      • Fine even if Quex Ul killed Zod. Big deal. Superman killed Quex Ul and Faora, dispute that. He still killed in another medium from the movie hence the whole point of this thread was “Superman never kills”. That statement has failed.

        You still lose the argument. Superman blames himself for murdering them. All three of them. He declares himself their executioner.

        And claiming that Quex-Ul killed Zod before the Kryptonite got them both is a far stretch.

        And official sources state Superman executed all three.

        http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Superman_Vol_2_22

        My argument with you is over. You’ve lost. I will no longer respond or acknowledge as anything you have to say now is moot.

        Superman has murdered. Last resort. Everyone needs to accept it and not hold it against the writers and directors of this movie.

        • Quex-Ul killed Zod. Superman killed Faora and Quex-Ul in Superman #22 Vol. 2. Superman didn’t kill Zod in Superman II. Superman did kill Zod in Man of Steel.

          You can wiki all you like, I’ve read the comics and seen the films. No need of secondhand information on my part.

          The article wasn’t about Superman not killing, it was about the hypocrisy of being upset at Man of Steel, when Superman killed in Superman II . . . which never happened. The author of the article didn’t do due diligence with the piece. If he had, he would have noted the other versions of Superman II, where it’s definitively shown that Superman did not kill Zod and company.

          The argument is over not because it’s moot, but because there’s no intellectual recourse for your position. It’s like asking if a tree falls in a forest, does it make a sound if no one is there? If we don’t see Zod land, how do we know he died? If two other versions show him re-imprisoned, why are you so adamant that he died in the version with a clearly ambiguous ending? It’s all right, man. You can’t win them all.

          • By the way Superman *also* killed Nuclear Man in Superman 4 and Lex’s goons in Superman Returns….unless of course you assume they survived being crushed under a block of kryptonite ice, somehow only shattered their legs, crawled off the Krytponite continent before it was sent into space where they would have died of asphyxiation and landed in the ocean as the “arctic police” once again save the day and capture the bad guys before they die.

            Oh what a happy place you must live in Waldae, but seriously please keep those drugs to yourself.

            The whole point of the article is based upon the key phrase: “There’s been vocal outrage on the part of some fans who feel betrayed by the notion of a Superman who kills – but is the outrage legitimate?”

            The main citation above is indeed Superman 2 where I will make but one correction. In the home DVD version, he doesn’t disintegrate the Fortress of Solitude, this apparently only occurs in the TV version with the Police apprehending the criminals. – on this note, I have both versions of the movie on DVD and in neither do the arctic police arrest Zod et al. Therefore this does not happen in the official version. Additionally someone else brilliantly pointed out based on your theoretics, that the Emporer did not die in Return of the Jedi because we did not see him die and Elsa Snyder did not die in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade because we did see her vanish into fog only and Hans Reinhart was not seen hitting the ground either so maybe there was a cushion or something he landed on….Brilliant examples to the person who cited these BTW!!!) I could probably list about 5 more examples of this but I am wasting my precious time on a discussion the rest of us have clearly won.

            Superman killed in Superman #22(Zod Quex-Ul and Zaora)
            Superman killed in Superman 2 (Zod)
            Who knows if Superman killed in Superman 3 while being evil Superman…
            Superman killed in Superman 4 (Nuclear man)
            Superman killed in Superman Returns (Luthors goons)

            Pull up your big girl panties and accept it. Hmmmm almost makes me wonder if this body count makes him a mass-murderer…

            “According to the FBI, for individuals, mass murder is defined as the person murdering four or more persons during a particular event”, so if four of Lex’s goons were killed in Superman Returns, guess what he is a mass murderer.

            This was the best way to end it. From a writers standpoint i would not have liked to see Zod sent to the Phantom Zone, it would have been too anti-climatic. If I was the director, I would have done the same thing….except maybe have Superman rip his head off….j/k….

            Waldae, challenge my rebuttal on Superman killing in Superman 4 and Superman Returns…you seem to be ignoring those.

  29. I also wouldnt be surprised if Superman broke Zod’s back when he tossed him against the ice wall before he disappeared. Sure looked and sounded like it could have.

    Also keep in mind that TV censorship around the time caused many changes to occur in TV programming. Chief among these is Battlestar Galactica where they changed the Cylons to robots instead of alien creatures inside the Centurion armors as was described clearly in the book and pilot episode. They did this because it was more acceptable to have them shooting robots and not “killing” another living thing. Another example is the Americanization of Star Blazers. On the Bee Planet, they censored it so you didn’t see them making the honey with the bodies of the slave workers so you think it’s just something they were making.

    A little research goes a long way Waldae. I believe that is checkmate.

    • Seriously? Research? You cite Battlestar Galactica and Star Blazers, where is your supposed research?

      Superman didn’t kill Zod. There are three different versions of the film, which this article fails to note, and in not one of them is Zod shown as being slain. Lads keep harping on him falling to his doom. Well, yes, he must have dies, because no one has ever fallen in a film, away from our view, and come back later. No, once they fall, they’re dead, even if we can’t see what’s happening. Two of the three films show that the Phantom Zone criminals did not die and the theatrical release is ambiguous at best, unless you choose to believe that Superman and Lois Lane would commit murder needlessly, which is your cynical right I suppose.

      Checkmate? It’s not even an opening.