(My dear readers, you have permission to treat this rumor as hostile.)
Not two days after wild rumors started circulating that Angelina Jolie was looking to play Catwoman in Christopher Nolan’s third chapter of the Batman Begins series, comes an even wilder rumor from out of the UK that Warner Bros. execs have begun eying top-notch actors Johny Depp and Oscar-winner Philip Seymour Hoffman for the roles of The Riddler and The Penguin in the next Bat-flick
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DON’T DRINK THE KOOL-AID JUST YET. For every new rumor of which villains will be featured in the next Batman film, comes another statement from Dark Knight scribes Jonathan Nolan and David S. Goyer, saying that they are trying NOT to take the obvious route of throwing the second-most iconic villains from Batman’s rogue gallery into the next film. However, as Spider-Man 3 taught us all, when a franchise reaches a certain $tature, the studio’s wishes quickly begin to trump any creative desires. Don’t be surprised to see The Riddler, The Penguin, or both, show up in the final draft of the script.
However, we won’t really know anything until a script for BB3 is actually done. But that hasn’t stopped fan debates from raging 24/7. Personally, I don’t think Goyer and Nolan should be working too hard to try to pull out obscure villains and/or plotlines for the next installment. If Heath Ledger’s performance in The Dark Knight taught us anything, it’s that an actor at the top of his or her game is able to take what is iconic and totally redefine it. (And fanboys, really, is that not the essence of all the best comic books: re-definition of the status quo?)
Which villains do you think should make into BB3?
Source: Comic Book Movie
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460 Comments
@Nathan
I just have a few problems with your idea. One is that Nolan has already said that no matter what he will never use Robin and im kinda glad he isnt. I do agree with the Harley Quinn thing though. I wouldn’t mind seeing her in the series but I dont like the idea of the Riddler, I was never a big fan of him to begin with.
People are remebering Nolans work now because he has done the best with these Batman movies and if Batman dies then Gotham dies with him. He might seem like the villan now, but batman is the hero that gotham dosent deserve but needs. Killing him with no legacy would put Gotham in a spinning chaos.
1. “I suggest a great idea.” The people that read your ideas are the ones that decide if you ideas are great or not. You make the idea, we comment on it. You don’t do both.
2. Robin is not Nolan material, and according to an interview with the current Dark Knight, Robin is not Christian Bale material either. Even if Nolan and Bale were fans of the Boy Wonder, his character just wouldn’t fit into the situation that Gotham has put itself in. Bruce Wayne is in no condition to be dealing with a little boy that looks like a rainbow. He is too busy dealing with Rachel’s death, and he is going to spend the whole third movie being shot at by villains and cops. It is just an unecessary addition.
3. The Joker is NOT a bit character. He is either in a film 100%, or he is not in it at all. Since he didn’t die in the Dark Knight, he will be in the third film, or there won’t be a third film at all. Deleted scenes and small bits of the Joker would destroy everything that made The Dark Knight so great. You can’t build a character up that much in one film just watch them dwindle away in the following motion picture.
4. If you are going to have Harley Quinn be a part of this series in any way, the Joker has to be alive. Harley Quinn is nothing without the Joker. The origin of Harley Quinn (she is persuaded to the bad side by the Joker in Arkham) is the one story that I want Nolan to include in the third movie more than any other potential storyline from comics or past movies. Having said that, without that origin story of Harleen Quinzel becoming Mr. J’s sidekick, I don’t want Harley Quinn to have anything to do with this series. You need that story of how she came to be that villain, and you need him. She needs him. The Joker is her claim to fame. No Joker, no Harley. End of story.
5. Saying that Johnny Depp is “too hollywood” simply deprives everyone a chance to see a great actor personify a great villain. What’s so wrong about being “hollywood” anyway. If anyone knows the answer to this, let me know.
6. It’s HarVey Dent, not Harey. It’s also called looking over what you type.
7. Batman can’t die without being broken by Bane. It’s too epic to ignore. Bane beating the “man” out of Batman is what will shock “worldwide audiences”. If Bane breaking the Bat happens, it will only happen at the end of this series and I don’t see this series ending next film.
8. “Yea that’s probably my least fave Idea I have ever seen on these boards.” I agree with you, but it is unfair to simply shut down someone’s idea without giving them concrete, constructive feedback in return. It’s the process of finding out where you went wrong that allows people to discover great ideas.
Just for the record, that was not a personal attack. Just feedback. Please use it.
NATAN-If Warners really wanted to kill off Batman, they’d go to the guy that killed Batman movies for a while…Joel Schumacher, who accomplished what the Joker, Riddler, etc. failed to do…kill The Bat!
I don’t care what reason people give as long as I don’t have to see a craptastic actor like Depp I’m good.
Being a Heath Ledger fan, I certainly would not want to see the Joker recasted. I know that Nolan will not make a thrid Batman film because the story line he choose is practically kills of all the good villians
and leaves less dramatic or less interesting villians on offer. Plus, there are a couple of villians that are very similar to the joker, just with different motives. I feel the Nolan’s best bet is to create his own villian to star for the next movie. The reason I feel this is because Nolan is just such an incredible creative talent, that he has the potential to be more creative than the people who created the whole Batman mythos. Nolan could create a villian that no body has ever experienced. What I would like to see is- Have Black Mask/Roman Sionis in jail, use flashbacks to show the audience how he ended up in jail, E.G.-laundering money from other business companies, something like that. Then make him a villian that, instead of being captive, actually controls everything from within the jail, exercising his revenge on all the rich businessmen that humiliated him in taking over various sectors of his successful business, since he promised the high sercurity prison owner 70 billion dollars.He can run things on his own terms without being suspected for any crimes by dectives as he is in prison. His henchmen can be Deadshoot and Edward Nygma/Riddler, who are also prison inmates . Deadshot and Edward go on killing the people Black Mask assigns for them, promising a billion per kill, Edward sets off explosives and Deadshot snipes the targets.However Edward now has his obssession for leaving clues as to who Black Mask’s next target is and this leads Batman to find Edward. Batman then tortures Edward until he gets enough information as to who the boss is, only in the form of riddles, which makes Batman’s task hard, then he encounter deadshot, who puts up a fight. Batman outsmarts Deadshot, gets information form him and scouts the prison. So that is my take on what I would want to see in Batman 3. By the way, the prison is Arkham Asylum.Forgot to metion by mistake. So what do you think ? Could work ? Needs a bit of work ?
By the way, Batman has to stop Balck MAsk before Black Mask gives the order to kill Bruce Wayne as Bruce Wayne also took over a business sector of Roman’s company. Also, what I wrote up there is what I would like to see if Nolan does not decide to create his own villian.
I’m a huge fan of what Heath did yet I still have no problem with re casting. The show must go on. Nolan isn’t going to not do another film simply because Heath is gone. Also as much as I love BB and TDK I probably won’t watch a third if he creates his own villain as the many baddie.
The people in Australia will not take too kindly to the re-casting of Heath Ledger, but fair enough, as Nolan was not counting of Heath’s death-R.I.P. Heath, cause you did an acting performance of incerdible magnitude. I just hope that if Nolan does ever re-cast the Joker, the actor filling Heaths shoes does one hell of a great acting performance , if not as good as Heath’s acting performance.
The only reason i have a problem with haveing the riddler is because it is just another version of the joker. I honestly dont see the point in him but that is just my opinion. And yes i have no problem with the recasting of the joker. Heath died not the joker so i dont see the big deal.
The Riddler is only another version of the Joker if the director makes the Riddler act like the Joker. It is so incredibly easy to make the Riddler act differently than the Joker, we just have witness a director do that. Yes, Jack Nicholson’s Joker and Jim Carey’s Riddler were both funny and crazy villains. The new Joker is creepy and more strictly into his own philosophy of how life should be lived, as opposed to just being crazy. Nolan’s villains have stronger and more realistic motives than the past Batman villains have had. The Riddler will have a totally different personality than that of the Joker, because the Riddler will have a different motive and philosophy on the way life/Gotham should be.
There is no problem with the Joker being recasted.
i have 2 things to say
1.Riddler is nothing like the Joker, the Joker is an insane, sociopathic killer with out a concience or stable mind. The Riddler is a narsistical, OCD genius, with a couincidental name E.Nigma.
2.I am 50/50 on Nolan re-casting Joker. Why i would like it is beacause i would love to see a cameo just like scarecrow in TDK. Why i wouldnt like it is because i dont want them to recast him so he can be the main villain in the next movie, i want 2 new villains, not 2 old ones.
If some of you guys read the interviews after TDK came out, Eckhart mentioned that Ledger was signed on for a two year contract before he died. Nolan proably wont stop his original plans just because of Ledger’s death. Its tragic but thats buisness.
Like I said before that is just my personal view of the riddler but Jay P. has a point its just how Nolan uses him in the movie. My orginal stament still stands though, I rather not see the riddler just because I dont pefer him that much and I rather see a less known character that Nolan could work with and set his own standerds for, so it dosent have to live up to a past movie or go beyond.
A smaller villains list would allow more time for character and story enhancement. This being the third film, and with the authorities after Batman, it would seem like a good idea to resolve that problem foremost, and the capture of a villain either aid this effort or stand in its way. This requiring Batman to capture or go thru the villain so to speak to resolve the problem with the authorities.
Necessarily, something needs to come to light that Batman really had no hand in Dent’s death or his victims. The media could be a useful in this arena. It’s very dependent on whether they intend to keep the Nolan franchise going beyond three movies or other plans. I’m all for a new character from the gallery, rather than using an old one too. Their is, as Jess says; More to work with.
Nolan should focus on making batman 3 a psychological thriller more than The Dark Knight. This is because Nolan has set up the thrid part of the movie to be that way with Racheal gone, batman a villian and Gotham being very vunrable to any main villian. Focusing on Bruce Wayne/Batman battle his emotional state as well as not having a white knight of gotham to make things easier should be what the movie is all about. The villian should be just second to this goal. But the villian should be able to related to this as well to make a more believable plot. And please , no Catwoman. Not that I hate her , I just have bad memories of her. And Catwoman should come after a few more movies down the line. The fact that Riddler wants order as a pose to the Joker ( chaos ) should set a good change of tone. I just Nolan can do a good job woth the riddler if he decides to cast it. And more importantly, actually sign on to the Batman 3 movie.
Nolan should aim to demonstrate Batman’s/Bruce Wayne’s mental state pushed to the limit and how he copes with the struggle. Alfred said in The Dark Knight that Bruce Wayne has his limits, but Batman does not. Batman 3 should focus on that point.
Batman Begins: The origin of Batman.
The Dark Knight: The Rise and Fall of Batman.
Batman 3: The triumph of Batman/Bruce Wayne.
I agree with the limits of Batman being tested in the third film. That’s why I think that Victor Zsasz would do well as a minor villain. The big problem for Gotham will be the Riddler, or Scarecrow, or the Joker or whatever happens, but it will be the minor role of Zsasz that really gets to Batman/Bruce Wayne.
The story of Zsasz stabbing Alfred (read about Zsasz if you don’t know this story) would be perfect for this situation of testing Batman’s limits. Alfred survives the stabbing, but Zsasz has already made a mark on his body, so he makes his way to the hospital to finish Alfred off. During Alfred’s time in the hospital, Bruce will one again question his limits, just like he did when Rachel died. Zsasz will show up to Alfred hospital room and who will be in there? Not Batman, but Bruce Wayne. So, Wayne has to fight Zsasz in order to defend Alfred. Bruce beats Zsasz but doesn’t kill him because Gordon and the cops will show up and get a hold if Zsasz. Zsasz can’t take the fact that Alfred is still alive and he has Alfred’s mark on his body so he kills himself. After this, Wayne makes the news as a hero. He isn’t the new hero of Gotham like Harvey Dent, but the name Bruce Wayne is now a name that the people of Gotham respect. Bruce Wayne is no longer seen as the spoiled billionaire that took over his father’s business, he is seen as a good man that cares about his devoted butler and risked his life to save him.
This story that would take up the majority of the first half of the film would show Bruce that even though Batman is still seen as an outlaw, the image of Bruce Wayne is better than ever. This motivates Wayne to continue his conquest as the Dark Knight and also motivates him to remain a good person while being Bruce Wayne.
Again, this wouldn’t be the whole movie, it would just be the half way climax, kind of like the transport truck incident in the Dark Knight. While this happens, the origin of an other villain can take place, or something like that.
Just thought I should bring up this option again cause it fits well with what FRED was saying about testing Bruce’s limits. What tests his limits more than Alfred (the man who told him to know his limits) getting seriously injured.
It would push Bruce’s limits because Alfred became a father figure to Bruce when his father passed. So this is what could push Bruce over the edge. The second part of the movie could be a villan trying to reveal the truth of what really happened about the supposed “Batman killings.” And as much as I hate to admit it this is where the Riddler could come into play. The Riddler could be trying to investigate this on his own terms.
Jay-P, I truly like the idea of Zsasz being a minor villian the next film, I just hope Nolan depicts Zsaaz’s mental state perfectly on film, as viewer would have to understand the magnitude of his mental condition and that he truly sees Alfred’s life , as well as everyone’s as worthless or Zombies. But I am sure Nolan is good enough to do just that.
I honestly don’t know how Riddler can be major enough to be a hugh threath as the Joker to Gotham city. he wants order and , with the Riddler, Nolan has to go for an origin story as the riddler has OCD, many psychological complexities, and very
similar to the Joker in terms of insanity. Someone like Black Mask as a major villian as a pose to Riddler would not need an origin story and Zsaaz can find adaquate screen time to push the mental state of Bruce Wayne. Black Mask can still tie in with the next movie as he can be the next mob leader.
This story would just fit well within the whole film. While this happens, a new villain can be originating. Like what Jess said, the Riddler can be investigating Batman’s “killings”. By the time Bruce is finished with Zsasz, the Riddler will have become a villain and he will be Batman’s next problem to solve. This doesn’t have to be the Ruddler though. During Batman’s struggle with Alfred’s injury could give any villain time to turn from good to bad.
Also, if the Joker is in the next film, this part of the film would give the Joker and Harley Quinn enough time to get to know each other. So, by the time Wayne stops Zsasz and Alfred is safe, a new villain will have been created, and if the Joker is in the next film, the relationship between Harley and Mr. J will be in full affect. This sets the film up for a great second half.
Another villain origin, like FRED said, could be Black Mask being the new mob leader. If that happens right after Zsasz gets arrested, it would make for an interesting second half as well.
Lets just not throw in too many villians. we dont want a relapse of Spiderman 3. But I like the Black Mask as a villan he has always been a favorite of mine.
Thats right. There should not be too much focus on the villians. I should be about developing the key relationships of Bruce Wayne/Batman. I feel that Nolan should work on the relationship between Lt. Gordon and Batman. Since Batman is now a villian, Nolan can focus on a frictional interaction between the two . That would be very interesting, seeing how Gordon works with Batman without being caught. Now Nolan can explore Gordons ethics- a law enforcement officer working with a vigilante. We already know that Gordon disagrees with Batman’s methods of crime solving, but respects these methods. But will Gordon lose respect for Batman and refuse his help ? Then there is the frictional relationship between Bruce Wayne and Lucius Fox. We saw hints of this in The Dark Knight-Bruce Wayne hiding information from Fox. I feel that Nolan should focus on this friendship a little bit-what happens id Bruce Wayne/Batman breaks Fox’s ethics. And if Nolan decides to make it so that Fox refuses to let Wayne use any of Fox’s gadgets in the fear of Fox himself being charged of a crime if Batman is caught , then Nolan can explore features of Batman that has not being explored in the two Nolan films so far- Bruce Wayne/Batman is a very skilled escapalogist and very resourceful with almost any object around him. Nolan has, very briefly, touched upon this in The Dark Knight. All this should be done with the Bruce Wayne and Alfred relationship as the key relationship-to focus on Bruce’s mental strength.
I agree Fred push Bruce’s mental limits. The first movie was developing Bruce, TDK was about pushing Batman’s moral codes and this one can push his mental stability. It something new and different and its right in Nolans comfort zone too so he should be able to do a good job.
I think it would be a great idea to bring the BatWing into the next movie with a smaller yet still cool Batmobile! How about the Clock King as the next villan?
Are you serious the Clock King? There are plenty of great villains and a decent amount that Nolan can make work, but the clock king isn’t either.
I just hope that there are more action sequences in the next film as well.
I think Clock king is next to the riddler for the worst choices of a villan in my book. And what are you talking about more action sequences? I thought their was plenty in it to satisfy that need. Its nice to not have the entire movie punch here kick there. You need a breather every once in a while.
Sorry, I forgot to mention, Batman 3 should have as many action sequences as The Dark Knight. I would like to see Deadshot as the villian in the next film simply because he has a complexed life as well. Deadshot should be a side villian.
Action sequences mean nothing without meaningful dialogue. Too much fighting can sometimes be a bad thing.
Like when Batman was freeing all of the hostages that were dressed up as the Joker’s men, I was just sitting there waiting for Batman to make his way up to the Joker and have an in depth conversation with him about life.
If Dark Knight had anymore action scenes, it would have been too much.
Deadshot would be a fantastic villain for Batman to actually have a head to head match against. No lackeys or mobs, just Deadshot and Batman. Nolan could do wonders with that.
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