(My dear readers, you have permission to treat this rumor as hostile.)
Not two days after wild rumors started circulating that Angelina Jolie was looking to play Catwoman in Christopher Nolan’s third chapter of the Batman Begins series, comes an even wilder rumor from out of the UK that Warner Bros. execs have begun eying top-notch actors Johny Depp and Oscar-winner Philip Seymour Hoffman for the roles of The Riddler and The Penguin in the next Bat-flick
DON’T DRINK THE KOOL-AID JUST YET. For every new rumor of which villains will be featured in the next Batman film, comes another statement from Dark Knight scribes Jonathan Nolan and David S. Goyer, saying that they are trying NOT to take the obvious route of throwing the second-most iconic villains from Batman’s rogue gallery into the next film. However, as Spider-Man 3 taught us all, when a franchise reaches a certain $tature, the studio’s wishes quickly begin to trump any creative desires. Don’t be surprised to see The Riddler, The Penguin, or both, show up in the final draft of the script.
However, we won’t really know anything until a script for BB3 is actually done. But that hasn’t stopped fan debates from raging 24/7. Personally, I don’t think Goyer and Nolan should be working too hard to try to pull out obscure villains and/or plotlines for the next installment. If Heath Ledger’s performance in The Dark Knight taught us anything, it’s that an actor at the top of his or her game is able to take what is iconic and totally redefine it. (And fanboys, really, is that not the essence of all the best comic books: re-definition of the status quo?)
Which villains do you think should make into BB3?
Source: Comic Book Movie
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Why ? Why can’t we have fun throwing out guesses and saying what we would love to see? Who is it hurting?
I agree with Daniel, that’s what these threads are all about !!!
Okay, I have read this forum with great interest and there are a lot of great ideas on here.
One thing that eludes me though is that no one seems to understand (or has at least acknowledged) that they MUST create a new female lead for the next Batman. With Rachel Dawes dead, there is not a single female character left. The lead does not have to be a romantic interest, but there at least has to be a woman in there to bring some sex appeal to the male-dominated audience.
I am more inclined to believe that the new female lead will have some romantic interest with Batman and/or Bruce Wayne. Here’s why. In TDK, Batman did make a selfish decision in the name of love. When given the opportunity to save Rachel or Harvey, he chose Rachel. Therefore, this shows that Batman valued the prospect of being with a woman that he loved over doing what was best for Gotham; saving the city’s most prominent public hero. In BB, Batman also risked the lives of many when racing Rachel back to Wayne manor after she had been poisoned by the Scarecrow. Nolan has given us a Batman who is susceptible to becoming selfish in the name of love over protecting Gotham. Also, in TDK, Bruce Wayne was considering allowing Harvey Dent take up his place as Gotham’s champion. This sets up, in my humble opinion, an epic conflict for the next (potentially last) installment; is Bruce Wayne truly capable of forever being the selfless protector of Gotham or would he put his personal pursuit to be with a woman he loves over the safety of the city (as he has shown himself capable of)?
Here are the possibilities of villains:
Does it have to be Catwoman? No. But, if you will remember when Bruce is talking to Alfred about needing a new batsuit, he asks if the suit will hold up to dogs. Alfred replies something to the extent “Dogs no, but it will stand up to cats”. This perhaps foreshadows, or at least flirts with the possibility of having Catwoman.
The next recognizable choice is Poison Ivy. Personally, I agree with those that have said in earlier posts that it will be difficult to make her character realistic.
When I read the suggestion of Harlequin earlier, I was certainly intrigued. While I don’t remember her having a romantic interest with Batman or Bruce Wayne, I think that she is a distinct possibility considering that the Joker is already in the series. The writers have also proven that they are willing to bring in villains that haven’t been used before in the movies as well.
Next might be Talia al Ghul. While Ra’s was unique to show Batman’s origins, the league of shadows is…yawn. Oops I fell asleep. Cross her out.
The Hangman aka Sofia Falcone doesn’t seem to be witty and intelligent enough to survive Nolan’s realistic Gotham. One additional letter to her message as she continues to kill cops? Give me a break and cross her out.
The last female I can think of is Ruby Ryder. There is the need for a new crime boss (there has been a major one in both films) and she would be very easy to write in. She could also fit in well with dating Bruce Wayne in the public eye but becoming his enemy as Batman.
Let me know your thoughts!
Actually Bruce was talking to Fox not Alfred.
I disagree they don’t NEED to add another female lead. I’m sure the studio will cram one in but it is not needed. In fact I feel the movie would be better without one especially if the female is Catwoman.
Daniel has a point. Why does every movie of a franchise have to hit all plot points? Afraid that another movie won’t get made because of it? A third movie to me is kind of like the last half of a second term president.. What you gonna do if s/he loads up the supreme court or passes that unpopular bill that even the presidents’ own party might not like?
Robert Downey Jr Would make a great riddler! He has the physicality intimidating enough to match batman. He could capture the attention of the audience. And his name as the riddler, is really all i could imagine that could match the hype of ledger as the joker
I agree Matt, its too bad he works for Marvel and IS the Iron Man,,,,,,,
Can’t go for a crossover on this one !!!!!!
ok just one thing to say judge all you want write or wrong only one man can play the riddler and he did an amazing job umatchable unfourtunatley he already was about ten years ago and it would be stupid to bringe him back but if they did i would love it and im speaking of jim carrey forget the kiddie batman movie that shumacher made he is a very talented story teller but he was all wrong to direct that movie if it wernt for jim it would have been a total loss but as far as depp is conserned he will do a great job i leave it at that
Wow, there are some great ideas on here. I enjoyed reading them all so much that it inspired me to think of what I would like to see out of the final installment of this trilogy from Christopher Nolan. So I did some thinking and my research and here it is, my take on Batman 3, I would call it The Crusader Endures. Okay I went into great detail about how I want this last film to go so hopefully it can all fit into this post (and Christopher Nolan if you happen to be surfing the web and find this site and like this idea then we can discuss it in more detail later!):
The Crusader Endures
Directed by Christopher Nolan
Main Cast of Characters:
Batman/Bruce Wayne- Christian Bale
Catwoman/Selina Kyle- Scarlett Johansson
The Monk/Niccolai (first showed up in Detective Comics #31)- Jay Hernandez
LA Times Reporter- Gabrielle Union
Commissioner Gordon- Gary Oldman
Alfred- Michael Caine
Lucious Fox- Morgan Freeman
Mayor of Gotham- Robert Duvall
Here is my interpretation of how the trilogy should be rounded out and who I pictured as the cast. I have provided the base skeleton of the script and it traces major character development so it jumps around a bit. Some rough (very rough) dialogue is provided to show plot developments. This is merely the story I would love Christopher Nolan to take and expound on and put his creative genius to.
The opening scene takes us five years in the future from the end of The Dark Knight. We find out via tv newscast (Anthony Michael Hall as Mike Engel reporting) how Gotham has been over those five years. Engel says “today marks the five year anniversary of Gotham PD locking up the madman known as Joker in Arkham Asylum. There have been over 300 failed attempts to break him out by various criminals over these five years, but we are proud to say he is behind the walls and security of Arkham Asylum today. We are so proud to report that when we thought we were in for the worst, it actually was about to become the best just five ago. The Gotham PD with the assistance of Batman, love him or hate him, I feel a bit of both these days, have kept Gotham safer than it has been in hundreds of years over these past five years. It is hard to be upset with Batman for this change, but I am one who does not want people to forget at what cost Batman made this happen, having innocent people die mind you, and one of those being our hero, DA Harvey Dent but that is a topic for another day. Back to Gotham as we mark its resurgence on this anniversary day. Over these past five years our population has grown with new industries coming in every day it seems like, it is truly a good time to be a Gothamite. Who would have known? So many criminals have been locked away for good in these years from the long line of organized crime stemming back to the Falcone days. We literally have just a handful of mobsters left in this city it is truly unbelievable…okay oh wait I am getting interrupted by my bosses that we have an important call to take on air, interesting that he would call right now, but here is one of those few remaining mobsters, Mr. Sal Maroni, okay go ahead Mr. Maroni sir.” On the phone truly is mob boss Sal Maroni (played again by Eric Roberts). Maroni says on the call that those remaining mobsters were going “to prove their allegiance” saying that it was now or never for them. “We may be few in numbers, but you will soon see what our mission is, we carry the uniform name of the one you are celebrating today and we will take out this city on our way to freeing him”. We then flash to different points all over the city where many men are dressed as the Joker destroying various parts of the city (they are the mobsters dressed as Joker). This is a great (lengthy) action sequence as the police fight them off unsuccessfully, but then Batman shows up and takes them all down all over town (including boss man Sal Maroni). It is a great homage to Heath Ledger’s Joker to see all these guys dressed up like him and acting like him. The next scenes show the accolades being poured upon Batman for ridding all the crime bosses from the streets (he has the support of the new mayor (played by Robert Duvall), but also shows people up in arms over these accolades, wanting him to pay for what happened to their hero Harvey Dent and the fallen police officers. So these dueling views of Batman are played out in various ways over these scenes, but it is all in a peaceful Gotham. One scene in here is at Selina Kyle’s apartment as she watches a newscast of Batman just ripping up everyone in Gotham. She swoons as she watches (her apartment is full of pictures of and articles on Batman) and talks to her cat about how someone like him could enver notice a simple girl like her. Then she concocts a plan to fake being attacked so he will rescue her, this happens in the next scene and Batman shows up and beats up the guys “attacking her” and they have a discussion afterwards but clearly she has not caught his eye. This makes her angry and thus puts in motion her getting freakishly in shape and donning her Catwoman costume and becoming this persona. She says, ‘Oh I’ll get him to notice me all right”. Another scene in here during the peaceful Gotham stage of the movie is of the dedication of Gotham Cathedral. Gotham Cathedral is an immaculate Catholic Cathedral and this scene shows the groundbreaking with big time donor for the project, Bruce Wayne, cutting a ribbon. Gotham Cathedral is a symbol for what is currently good in Gotham, it is the first building to be erected in the Narrows since the terrorist attack and symbolizes rebirth in Gotham and specifically this area of Gotham. Present at the groundbreaking and honored on stage for their humble service to this new Cathedral and the community of the Narrows are the monks of the Cathedral (one is highlighted, a young Hispanic monk named Niccolai-played by Jay Hernandez), Bruce Wayne shakes each of their hands after the ceremony. After the ceremony we follow the monks to their quarters and stay with them a while. We see their pious life, but that something is very different with Niccolai. We follow him through his night as he puts in vampire-like teeth and stalks his victims, murders them and then devours them. We see him later weeping and confessing these sins to the eldest monk at the cathedral. He says in confession that he didn’t know what happened, that this evil desire just came over him. The eldest monk jumps out of the booth and drags Niccolai out and says he has done such a horrible thing he is never welcome back at Gotham Cathedral and if he ever sees his face again in Gotham City he will call the police, may God have mercy on his soul. Niccolai starts to pack up and then gets that look in his eye again and heads for the eldest monk’s sleeping quarters and proceeds to murder and devour him as well. The next scenes we see are of an LA times reporter (Gabrielle Union) coming to Gotham to do a piece on Batman. Of course her first stop is by Wayne Enterprises to meet the famed Billionaire Bruce Wayne. They hit it off (and by Alfred’s pushing and prodding Bruce takes her out on a date. This is after Alfred says to him, “it has been five years since you have even looked a girl’s direction Master Bruce.”). They hit it off even more at dinner though the conversation keeps coming back to Batman. She is in Gotham because she says, “the majority of Americans and people all over the world are becoming more and more curious about this Batman and I want to report the truth about him.” Throughout the movie she is the main force for bringing people to an understanding of Batman and how good he really is. She decides not to write just one article, but a six article continuing story that comes out in the Gotham newspaper once a week (through these articles the Gothamites get to understand the true hero they have in Batman and the movie audience does as well. In the fifth article she gets Commissioner Gordon’s wife to interview about the truth about Harvey Dent. This seems catastrophic at first, but is actually what ends up bringing Gotham’s people to Batman’s side. In her sixth and final article she calls the citizens of Gotham to embrace their hero and call him no longer the Dark Knight but she gives him the new name- Caped Crusader.). Batman is now understood and can protect the people with their full support. Her and Bruce Wayne grow extremely close through the film (even sharing Bruce Wayne’s first on screen love scene), but toward the end of the movie she reveals (after having a conversation with Batman-she tricks him into meeting her with a fake phone call) to Bruce that she is leaving Gotham because she is in love with a man that can never love her back-Batman. She says he loves Bruce, but it just won’t work. Bruce tells her he could never be Batman so he understands. He is, of course, sad to see her go, but you can see this has refreshed him as a man because of the love she showed him and he felt for her, it gives him hope for the future. So I have skipped to the end of the movie by following the LA Times reporter’s storyline to the end, but getting us to this point at the end of the movie are these scenes: following Fox building new amazing weapons for Batman (that he uses in his fight scene against Catwoman and The Monk), The Monk continuing to kill and feast and Batman keeps showing up too late and never sees him (the last time it is because of the reporter’s fake meeting with him), and Catwoman stealing all sorts of jewelry (Batman finally shows up and they have a great fight sequence that ends in a passionate kiss. But again Catwoman is scorned by Batman. She tells him they are the same. Batman says, ‘We are similar, I toe the line between good and evil very closely, but I would never cross it as you have tonight. We are not alike and never will be. Hang up the cute suit and don’t bother me again.” This is the final straw for Catwoman and this sends her off the deep end. She vows to no longer just steal jewelry, she will hurt Batman. She sets out to find a partner, someone who is at the top of the criminal game in Gotham. She goes to the seediest parts of town, but can’t find anyone really worthy. At one place she gets a guy to tell her about a guy he hears dresses as a Monk who is said to be a vampire, now that is the guy she needs to find. She does find him and nearly becomes his next victim, after their fight she explains her situation and how they can take out Batman together. Monk says he does want to rule the night and without Batman in the picture he will be able to prey on anyone. So they set out for Batman and a great fight scene happens in the Gotham Cathedral. Toward the end of the fight Catwoman realizes what she has done as Monk is about to kill Batman, she realizes how far she has come and how she didn’t want all this to happen. We see this in flashes to her youth and to her dreamy days of loving Batman. So she stops Monk and they begin to fight each other. Batman soon regains his strength and joins the fight but too late to stop Monk from throwing Catwoman from the Cathedral. Monk escapes as Batman rushes Selina Kyle/Catwoman to Commissioner Gordon’s house to take to the hospital. Bruce Wayne visits her in the hospital as she clings to life. He says he never knew her, but just admires her for being another hero willing to risk it all just like Batman to stop this crazed killer. He sits by her side as she eventually dies, he is very upset by this. It is after this that the reporter breaks the news to Bruce (now back at Wayne Manor) that she is leaving and they can’t be together because she is in love with Batman. She leaves and gives him the final article she wrote on Batman. He reads the article as pride swells in him and he gets his true calling. Just as quickly as he feels this good, Alfred enters with news of his own from Commissioner Gordon that turns things sour. Alfred reports from Gordon, “after Monk left the fight last night he was mysteriously contacted at his home” (at this point we leave the scene of this conversation at Wayne Manor (which is newly restored in this movie from the fire from Batman Begins) and see through Monk’s eyes what happened the night before. Monk stumbles into his shady apartment, bloodied and beaten, and the door has already been opened. He has a note on his desk. The note reads (with building dramatic music in the background) “we have admired your work from afar before tonight, reading in the papers about a mysterious killer that has continually alluded the great Batman of late, but were able to see firsthand what you can do tonight. Allow us to introduce ourselves, we pride ourselves in being the world’s greatest criminals. We are not interested in joining a mob or in mere petty crime and until we met each other were not interested in teamwork at all. We have seen over the past few years however the benefit of such a partnership as we have swept through the world destroying as much as we can. We have traveled the world in search of various destruction to be a part of and have now landed in Gotham City. We are not normal criminals and must say we enjoy the theatrical nature of our criminal personas as you do as well, but lets cut to the chase, we want to work with you in this our greatest of destinations, Gotham City. We have never met a match quite like Gotham or its famed hero protector, Batman. We want you to join us in our quest of complete destruction of this city on the mend and our first task occurs tonight. Do not take this personally but you are a recent recruit to our endeavor, we have had our sights set on a bigger fish. Meet us at Arkham Asylum in half an hour. Signed The Penguin and The Riddler.” Now the music gets even louder and you follow The Monk to Arkham and see the shadowy figures of The Penguin and The Riddler (all you ever see of them are their shadowy figures, no faces, no close-ups). The three completely infiltrate the beefed up security of Arkham and it is mass hysteria with loud music and you are unable to see what is exactly going on, but you know that the newly formed group of baddies is definitely winning… until all is silent and the camera is now taken quickly to just above the front doors of Arkham and soon you hear Heath Ledger’s voice say, ‘And here we go’ (it will be a sound byte from Dark Knight-another way to pay homage to Heath Ledger’s portrayal of Joker in Dark Knight). The camera watches the four shadowy figures walk off into the dark, Monk with his red cape billowing behind and the unmistakable outfits of Penguin, Riddler, and Joker with him (very powerful scene). So then the flash is back to the conversation between Alfred and Bruce. Bruce says, “So we will assume they joined forces and were successful in this quest.” “I think we must sir,” Alfred replies. “This will never end”, Bruce says. To which Alfred says, “you are right this will never end, but we thought we were in for the worst of it five years ago and what did you do? You locked away The Joker and took all the organized crime out of Gotham. And you did it as a reviled being. These years have been the best I have ever seen in Gotham in all my years. You must not lose hope. We have seen what this place can be so do not doubt yourself, do not doubt the people of Gotham. These madmen don’t stand a chance because Gotham has seen what it can be and it will not settle for anything less. The Joker told you that “you’ve changed things forever, there’s no going back” and that is coming true now. The old mob is gone and now the new regime is here. You knew something would pop up in its place. So it is no longer Falcone or Maroni and their thugs and their guns, now you have to deal with this bunch of crazies, but we knew this was coming. The Joker could not beat the alienated Dark Knight, he does not stand a chance against the public hero, this Caped Crusader (picking up the newspaper article in his hand). Bruce stands and says after a pause, “Looks like I better start restoring that hope.” We then see him go down to the new Batcave in Wayne Manor and get all decked out and head out into the night and then THE CRUSADER ENDURES thunders onto the screen and the trilogy is complete. It does not end all tied up, but I think that is the beauty of it. It feels like a complete trilogy after this though. By having this story end this trilogy we have symmetry- we had six villains, three classic well known Batman adversaries-The Joker (Dark Knight), Two-Face (Dark Knight), and Catwoman (The Crusader Endures) and three lesser known villains- Ra’s Al Ghul (Batman Begins), Scarecrow (Batman Begins), and The Monk (The Crusader Endures). In each film one villain lived and one villain died (Ra’s dies, Scarecrow lives in Batman Begins, Two-Face dies, Joker lives in Dark Knight, and Catwoman dies, The Monk lives in Crusdaer Endures). This was a nice symmetry to accomplish. I felt like in this last film proper homage was paid to Heath Ledger and the character of Joker by mentioning him, having the gangs of Jokers at the beginning and showing him (not recasting and by using original voice) alive at the end. Also proper homage was given to Batman villains by showing (although briefly and from a distance) the two remaining ‘huge super villains’ not yet used in these movies in The Penguin and The Riddler (The Crusader Endures). The first film focused on Batman’s formation, the second on Batman’s inner struggle with great emphasis given to his worthy adversaries, and the third on Batman’s redemption and future, though it ends with worthy adversaries about to prey on Gotham, we have seen a Batman/Bruce Wayne who was able to love and is finally loved and at least partially understood by the people.
Landon just to let you know Chris Nolan said he wasn’t going to put catwoman in the next movie and the monk wouldn’t get the audiences intrests. Instead How About this.
Title: The Last Great Detective
Cast:
Batman/Bruce Wayne- Christian Bale
Riddler/Edward Nigma- Johnny Depp
Bane- Matt Morgan(7 feet, 318 lbs)
Commissioner Gordon- Gary Oldman
Alfred- Michael Caine
Lucious Fox- Morgan Freeman
Nightwing/Dick Grayson- Jake Gyllenhaal
Edward Nigma is a Forensic science professor at Gotham university and the best in the country meaning when a crime can’t be solved hes your man but since batman came to town he has become obsolete. This causes him to commit an unsolvable murder but the thrill excites him so he does it again and again and at each murder scene he leaves a riddle. Riddler is born. As for bane the same backstory as in the comics he goes to jail as a infant and grows up there. his child hood consists of nothing but working out and reading. after 20 years of this bane becomes nothing but a hulk that exceeds batman in both physical strength and fighting skills and is batman’s intellectual equal. He breaks out of prison and moves to gotham. after being exposed to super potent steroids he goes into the biggest road recorded in history and does the impossible breaks the batman literally he breaks his back. Leaving a cop/vigilante nightwing(no robin backstory) to save the day
So bring Dick Grayson in and completely ignore the comics and spit in the face of the readers? I agree that Nolan shouldn’t bring in Robin but doing Nightwing and Dick Grason with out the proper back story is just dis respecful. I would prefer a movie with out Riddler, but I don’t mind your story minus nightwing as long as Depp is not in this movie in any way. I won’t watch it if he is.
I never heard nolan say any villains were completely off the table.
Landon, I have read interviews with Nolan, on the next Batman movie,,, he stated that he would NOT use Catwoman or Penguin in the next film.
He didn’t say no to Riddler, he only laughed.
DEPP as The Riddler? Yes!
I have been waiting for a new movie role for him where he can get nice and dark and creepy for us AGAIN, as dark and as creepy as only DEPP can do!!!
(NO MORE PIRATES, JOHNNY! PLEASE I BEG OF YOU… importants only need respond to THIS statement).
I vote yes for Depp as The Riddler.
Phillip Seymour-Hoffman is a bit odd a placement for The Penguin, unless he dyes his hair and eyebrows black… ?
Nah. :/
I know it would never happen but fitting into Nolan’s theme and feel and were Dark Knight left us, I think The Punisher hunting Batman would be a friggin awesome storyline. There has to be a Marvel/DC cross over someday and nows the only time DC has anything at all Marvel would love to get there hands on. Please please please push this Punisher storyline it would be dark graphic and great!!! Vin Diesel as the Punisher??? Especially all the talk with corrupt cops and everything. Id take Thomas Jane back he’s an awesome actor. Jane n Bale would look good on screen together, that would work great.
Getting Depp as The Riddler would be coo
Ed Norton as anything would be great
Vin Diesel as Bane?
I do remember Morgan Freeman Lucious Fox saying “Your armor would be great against cats” Catwoman maybe hint hint hint….
Commish Gordons son should be Robin
The Punisher idea is by far the worst i’ve heard for this film and Vin Diseal are you serious?
geez people, the thing about the relaunch of batman has been that we are taking a dark knight approach, with heavy frank miller influences and year one allusions. to skip 50+ years and 500 issues of comics to bane seems ridicules.
the next LOGICAL story (after an origin and introduction to the joker) has to tackle early batman year 1 type of villains like Hugo strange, mr whisper, calendar man. i still vote for a long holloween type of story arch…
early villains the Zsasz would be the perfect bad guy. his MO is based in reality, no obscure or weird powers. he’s just a serial killer with a dark side that makes the joker look like a school kid.
i just can’t stand all this talk of ignoring the fact the these other villains didn’t show up for years in the batman continuity. lets keep it original. we hated how spiderman sold out for part 3 by bringing in recognizable villains, lets not do that to batman too…
otherwise the only other character that makes sense is azrael, it alludes to TDK in the beginning where people are pretending to be him…they could capitalize on that, but i don’t want to see the continuity fast forwarded 5 years at all. part of the beauty of the nolan films is the batman FAILURES, not his triumphs. 5 years later he’s already refined and nearly unbeatable. which is why in the comics the villains got more and more outrageous and attacked in greater numbers.
lastly, there’s no rush to tell the whole story…just like james bond, this could be an ongoing franchise with different directors and actors taking their shot at the story. and just like every time a new james bond is introduced people will say he’s not as good as the previous one, until they see it and forget about it…(obviously we love the original sean)
that’s what they tried with the keaton, kilmer, clooney films, but they lost sight of the thread that holds it all together…
in the end, batman is a detective. its a crime drama. let’s not forget that…no super villains. no crossovers. keep it real…and maybe someday someone of the likes of Martin Scorsese will direct just 1 installment of hopefully a great and enduring legacy…
@comic geek: Yeah that’s kind of in the same vain as hitting all the plot points I said earlier. People can’t help but wonder what would the Riddler be like Nolanized or any of the pop villains in the gallery. If Nolan only does three pictures you won’t get that chance, if he does the logical thing. With Nolan gone, would the property press on or go into hibernation? With somebody else at the helm you might get whacked by the stupid “8 comic book rules” and number 1 is by film 5 you reboot!
I think introducing Azrael in the third movie would be a bad idea. I see in the replies, that some believe he would serve as a logical choice, since we got to see some copy cats in The Dark Knight. BUT, the idea of it goes against what the general theme of this current Batman franchise has been all about: Batman is utterly alone.
After the events of TDK, Batman would become more recluse. Azrael directly helping batman or even being a vigliante character would be like an un-needed coma, in a sentence: it breaks things up. The transition becomes jilted.
Now that the police are really after Batman, I think a villain that can get inside his head (riddler) or a powerhouse (bane, black mask) would be the next characters we see. These villians highlight the point that batman is getting hammered from all corners..ALONE.
Personally I see Bain fitting in to Nolan’s films just fine. It dosn’t have to be a perfect comic interpretation they could change it a little to fit perfectly. A broken bat would be a great story. SOmeone finally beating him in a fight. Most of the villians that are being listed pose very little therat, can not carry a movie on their own , or a story involving them simply wouldn’t make sense at this point. For example does anyone think Zsaz is fit to carry a film? Look at the origins of azreal making him the villain at this point doesn’t make any sense.
The Dark Knight is in good hands as long as the studios stay out of the creative process. After all what do they pay writers and directors for?
Love the ideas you guys come up with and I hope they somehow find their way into the next movies. Some of you guys must do this for a living. Hope they know were to send the check.
I agree its too soon for Bane. Catwoman may or maynot work, but then again I didnt think Heath ledger’s Joker was going to work. I never been so happy to be wrong.
I like the idea of Jonny Depp as the Riddler. The Die Hard Movie if Batman were in it. I don’t think Robin will work
in Nolan’s Universe. Then again it depends on the writing doesn’t it. Robin will definitely need a name change. Who’s afraid of OMG The ROBIN!!!! He needs to be more rougher, smarter, streetwise.
Sorry guys trust me I don’t think 2 Face is coming back. I remember when Tim Burton’s Batman Came out. Some people thought the Joker didnt die. It was a robot according to them laugh maniacally.
I truly think the best resolve would be to not make another batman film b/c TDK was the apex of comic stories.
But since its all about the money in hollywood, having too many villains in Batman the 3rd installment would be a bit much.
The great thing about BB and TDK were the balance of Bruce Wayne/Batman as well as ancillary characters with their own storylines.
We all have to separate our whatif views of Batman from the Batman in Nolan’s universe so I came up with a feasible, fun and relatively realistic storyline that keeps a focus on GOTHAM and BRUCE WAYNE:
——————————–First Draft..Don’t hate if it ain’t a full 95 pg script yet —
Still reeling from the question of whether the Batman is responsible for the escalation by the new school of villains and the loss of Rachel and Harvey, an ambitious Bruce Wayne is ready to minimize the role of the Batman and put HIS stamp on Gotham’s revival.
Since the Batman is now a fugitive, Bruce’s strategy is to completely disempower the mob as the epic clash with the Joker already weakened them. He takes Wayne Enterprises into the arms business with mob supplier Oswald Cobblepot, the primary arms dealer of GOTHAM and communicates with him behind the scenes via the “fugitive Batman” as a “hired proxy”.
Bruce’s long-devised strategy is a two-phase plan to buy out a majority of the weapons in the city by using Cobblepot to gather them all together and export them “to foreign terrorists” when in reality it would be a dummy corporate warehouse, in essence disarming. Phase-two is to take down the mob during this time window while the circulation of guns is at a low and pending a future supply.
Third party mercenaries headed by Bane hijack the shipment and redistribute the high-end weaponry to the streets where gang wars are erupting. Simultaneously its leaked to the media that Wayne Enterprises is responsible for the backdoor dealings and now both Wayne
and Batman have their backs against the wall. To make matters worse, Bane figures out Batman is Bruce Wayne and severely injures him and break’s Alfred’s arm. Lucius Fox is killed as a result of the gang violence.
With Gotham defenseless, Bruce resorts to plan C which is he didn’t plan on using for another 2 years – enlisting his top candidate to take the Batman mantle, Jean-Paul Valley. In his resulting anger Bruce gives Valley the green light to use high-level violence, not anticipating Valley’s emotional highs when he fights.
Bruce + Alfred travel to rehab where Bruce must reinvent himself physically and rethink his idea of what justice is..should the Batman’s justice evolve to the viciousness he allows Valley to use?
A month passes and Gotham in the Narrows is essentially a nighttime warzone while Valley instills a vicious/fearful Batman over the city. Bruce returns and finds the city almost unrecognizably more sinister. Taking up the mantle of the bat once again, he finds Valley more irrational while trying to talk to him. In a one-on-one rooftop fight, Bruce is overmatched and rusty but not seriously wounded.
Now with the evil shadow of the Bat lurking over him Bruce must take down both Valley and Bane who has seized full control of the criminal elements by killing off the mob with Cobblepot, his top level underling.
*(Can be left out but would be a 5 minute worthy homage to the Joker): With the odds against him, Wayne’s Batman visits a dark Arkham cell, a 5 minute dialogue ensues between the Batman and the Joker, where Batman asks him hypothetically how the criminal genius would resolve the situation, more as inspiration for his plan and using the Joker’s egoic need as Batman’s nemesis to help him plan against the overpowering Valley’s Batman.(it could be just the joker’s cackling voice and speech ..)
Setup of Battle finale:
A climactic 3-way battle on top of a ship at sea carrying weapons between Bruce, Jean-Paul and Bane, as well as heads of the gang wars. Cobblepot meanwhile sets a bomb to eliminate all and secure his position as Gotham’s top dog. (Details to be filled in by action
producers – no Jackie Chan style moves allowed)
Ending:
Bruce makes amends as Wayne Enterprises now assumes the role of Gotham rebuilder and privatized Developer. It’s the first step in rebuilding the Wayne name. While his public persona is under construction, Gotham is not nearly as forgiving of the Batman. Pushed to
the limits of his physical abilities, character and beliefs, the Batman is on a new mission, that of Redemption as Gotham is now his to patrol once again. His first visit being to the Penguin who now becomes his informant.
His last visit in the movie is with Jim Gordon, who during the reign of terror of Jean Paul-Valley gave a strict do-not-engage edict that still stands. Batman lets Gordon know that the Batman who instilled fear is no more and now it’s a the Batman with the rehabbed sense of Justice that exists. He outlines his rules and makes himself an accountable vigilante, not by the law but by his own word.
Gordon doesn’t forgive him for the sheer volume of damage to the city but he says he’ll honor and continue the do-not-enage edict and that their relationship/partnership is over but implies with a joke that their friendship isn’t. The last thing he says is you’re starting all over, earn the trust because justice is about confidence – the people must confide in you in order for there to be justice.
——————————–//The End?
Note1: In Nolan’s universe Bane doesn’t have to be this cartoony roider, he could be a Captain America super soldier type. As long as we can see a visual indicator of “venom”/ a pain inhibitor and recovery drug – levels increasing, thats a good enuf translation of the
character. Also he respects the Batman enough to hunt him but not reveal his identity as per the comics.
Note2: If TDK can spend 30 minutes on Lao and Hong Kong, this storyline is definitely feasible by movie standards. Nobody asked where the Joker came from so no one will really care about where the Penguin and Bane came from. No need to wage a stupid backstory where Danny Devito runs around in a diaper and hops into a pond or Bane trains with Luchadors and his tag team partners Batista/John Cena.
Note3: The rehab stint could be a cinematic 15-20 minutes but we have to include a Rocky like montage except no beach scenes with Alfred.
——————————-//Themes hit on
1-What is Justice? Does the Batman’s sense of rules need to evolve to meet the ruthlessness of the villain?
2-Revisits: is Bruce Wayne Batman’s mask or vice versa?
3-Lines that need to be drawn – as a vigilante and hero
4-Should Batman become an executioner in order to protect?
5-Responsibility..I know spidey has this covered but still..how about CONSEQUENCES?
——————————–//Feasibility + final thoughts
I thought condensing GANG WARS and KNIGHTFALL sagas would be tough but I felt the Riddler and Penguin on their own are favorable for
an encounter/ single comic but won’t translate to the big screen because they’re more looney than dangerous and aren’t characters that really create a sense of urgency. This story idea seems more action oriented, fast-paced.
I was trying to read the erotic story/romantic comedy several posts above but I didn’t quite find it to be easily readable though its good. Too much of a genre digression if its about Catwoman..there’s that primal male fear that Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan would be cast as Batman and Catwoman and start emailing each other..
——————————– Copyright 2008 by HL “the ReReMixx”
I think Johnny could play the role. He is one of the most talented actors of this age. I can understand how people would think he could not overcome the comic character of Captain Jack, however his performance in Sweeney Todd and Secret Window are immaculate and its clear that these are just characters, Depp also says he prefers darker, out of the ordinary characters so hopefully he could consider this role. (Agreed, he kinds did kill Wonka..)
I don’t think they should recast the joker, Ledgers preformance was amazing, i dont think anyone could match up to his standards and also as a mark out of respect.
I do think that the Riddler and the Joker have to much in common as characters, Watching Jim carrey as the Riddler i can see alot of the Jokers character in it.
Also heard “Juno” star Ellen Page to play a female Robin? Any ideas if that has any truth? Plus I dont think Robin should be in the next movie, but thats my opinion.
How in the world is Johnny Depp one of the most talented actors in this age? He’s done maybe one or two decent films that’s it. The guy hasn’t had one performance that was even close to exceptional. Depp is one of the most mediocre actors of this time I will give you that much.
Daniel: Come on,cut Johnny some slack. When it comes down to it Depp is very talented at changing his character… That and he gives them an eary feel. Take Edward Scissorhands for example, when you compare that to his Pirates role.. They’re two totally different people… Edward is this creepy, weird teenager whilst Sparrow is this ditzy, humorous pirate. As for his Wonka performance, yeah, he may have killed the old Wonka.. That’s certain.. But going straight down to the basis of his portayal of Wonka.. It’s this cynical insane person… That’s why when I look at depp and how he acts… It seems like he’d be able to make a great riddler. take away the un-real costume and kane that they gave Jim Carrey, and you could have this frightening detective who’s great at messing with your head.. It’d be like a less cynical Joker..
My only criticism about having the Riddler and Depp is that it may be a little too soon to have a villain who is slightly a mimic of the joker’s psyche..
That’s all I got.. Give me some feedback Daniel. I’m not trying to start a battle… Everyone has their opinion of different actors… I guess if they do use Depp.. They might be milking him a little.. He’s been in quite a few movies over the past few years.
I think that they should bring in Oracle, she would be a great side-story to the movie. Johnny Depp is one the most versatile actors, and one of the best of this generation. From Cry-Baby, to Sweeny Todd (adding to the psychosis of The Riddler) from Jack Sparrow, to Edward Scissorhands! He would be one of the great Batman actors up there with Christian Bale and Heath Ledger themselves! I also think that the riddles that would be used by him will make audiences think alot more about him. Making him an even better addition. I do NOT think that Penguin should even be considered for this movie, simply because the character is too hard to follow. Bane IS a comic-only character. Ellen Page playing in any role of Batman would completely ruin it, as she is too bright for these movies.
As for the rest of the movie, I’m not sure if a trilogy is what Nolan should be shooting for… After what Heath did with his performance, everyone is going to be expecting something godly in comparison.
Considering that they’re going to make one anyways, I’d have to say the Riddler should still be in…. Maybe not as the lead villain, but how he becomes the Riddler, while Batman takes on bigger fish, say [insert actual main villain here], that way you’d see something similar to TDK… Which on second thought might not be a good idea.. Are we wanting them to shoot for epic or really good with this one.. Because I personally think that having a main villain followed up by the Riddler who is just a detective at the beginning trying to hunt the Batman. That way by the end, when Batman has everything wrapped up, the Riddler is coming into place.
That would just leave it open for yet another movie.. Which might lead to milking the franchise.. So it’s out there.. I’m split on my own opinion.. What are everyone else’s thoughts?