Johnny Depp As The Riddler In The Dark Knight Sequel?
Aug 2, 2008 by Kofi OutlawAnother crazy rumor has been floated regarding the villains for the next Batman movie
(My dear readers, you have permission to treat this rumor as hostile.)
Not two days after wild rumors started circulating that Angelina Jolie was looking to play Catwoman in Christopher Nolan’s third chapter of the Batman Begins series, comes an even wilder rumor from out of the UK that Warner Bros. execs have begun eying top-notch actors Johny Depp and Oscar-winner Philip Seymour Hoffman for the roles of The Riddler and The Penguin in the next Bat-flick
DON’T DRINK THE KOOL-AID JUST YET. For every new rumor of which villains will be featured in the next Batman film, comes another statement from Dark Knight scribes Jonathan Nolan and David S. Goyer, saying that they are trying NOT to take the obvious route of throwing the second-most iconic villains from Batman’s rogue gallery into the next film. However, as Spider-Man 3 taught us all, when a franchise reaches a certain $tature, the studio’s wishes quickly begin to trump any creative desires. Don’t be surprised to see The Riddler, The Penguin, or both, show up in the final draft of the script.
However, we won’t really know anything until a script for BB3 is actually done. But that hasn’t stopped fan debates from raging 24/7. Personally, I don’t think Goyer and Nolan should be working too hard to try to pull out obscure villains and/or plotlines for the next installment. If Heath Ledger’s performance in The Dark Knight taught us anything, it’s that an actor at the top of his or her game is able to take what is iconic and totally redefine it. (And fanboys, really, is that not the essence of all the best comic books: re-definition of the status quo?)
Which villains do you think should make into BB3?
Source: Comic Book Movie
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Daniel,
I meant within the context of the movie series, not the comic book.
Nothing worse than killing a character only to bring them back and say to the audience “Psyche! He wasn’t really dead.”
I flippin’ HATE that.
Vic
so i found some crazy pic (http://flickr.com/photos/26546166@N06/2689071548/)
Depp is about the same height, weight, and his face is structured about the same as heaths, so why not? Depp could mimick heaths performance like a mirror
Kyle
I remember reading that and was blown away..I went into my collection last night and hauled it out and I have to say that it holds up VERY WELL…I was blown away again…I think The Wrath would work brilliantly because he was hired to kill Gordon, he figured out who Batman was , threatened to take Alfred’s life…I mean if we are talking about taking the Batman character to the next level with him having to choose between ALfred & Gordon or killing the Wrath…I mean that would be a great stroy for the last movie of Nolans trilogy….
Also Kyle I would not consider him a C-lister just because he is not well known in the Batman mythos..That is exactly why he would work as being the anti-Batman, his complete opposite in every way but at the same time his equal in every way..his obscurity would help this storyline work and with the way they can virally market things now the Wrath would be a well known quantity by the time the movie is ready for theaters…Gerard Butler playing the Wrath would be awesome too…his intensity playing off Christian Bale’s intensity…IMO it would be an amazing story line for the next movie…
For those of you unaware to the version of the Wrath I am talking about this is the original take of the character from 1984 and created from the Batman Special #1 published by DC Comics and created by Mike W. Barr and Michael Golden and was based on an essay by Aldous Huxley..not the retcon character created by Tony Bedard and Rags Morales in Batman Confidential # 13….here goes
“The first Wrath was a member of Batman’s rogues gallery, where he served as a sort of anti-Batman. The Wrath’s appearance and motivation are reminiscent of Batman’s, but with notable differences. The Wrath (like Batman) is distinguished by perfectionism and obsession in what he does. His costume is also very similar to Batman’s (though colored in crimson and purple with a W-insignia on the chest and cowl).
The Wrath’s parents were a couple of burglars, similar to Joe Chill. They were shot by a young policeman who mistook them for committing a robbery (in actuality, they were crawling out of a window to “skip out” on paying their rent). Due to this, the Wrath dedicated his life to a campaign of revenge against law and law-enforcers. As he had grew up, the burglars’ son became a professional assassin. For years, he traveled the world to work as a gun for hire.
When the Wrath finally returns to Gotham City, he comes to kill the man who had shot his parents. The Wrath’s target turns out to be James Gordon, commissioner of the Gotham City Police and an ally of Batman. Thus, a clash with Batman becomes inevitable. In the course of their impersonal battle of wits, the Wrath learns of Batman’s secret identity as Bruce Wayne and proceeds to attack several of his friends; Alfred Pennyworth is hospitalized, and Leslie Thompkins is taken hostage by the Wrath.
In the end, the Wrath dies during his showdown with Batman, having fallen from the roof of a building in Park Row. This happened after he was caught in a fire set earlier by the Wrath himself.”
From wikipedia
Cheers
Thats the thing though at no point in the movie did they say he was dead. So it’s not like they just brought him back to life.
Brother I
Well Chris Nolan is apparently doing some other movie next (adapting some old British TV show to screen) so it’ll be a few years before we see another Batman movie.
And I think it may be a little too soon tell who’ll be in Bat3, because when “Batman Begins” was first announced in ’03/’04 Guy Pearce was supposed to play Batman, and that obviously changed.
But personally I hope that the story line contines to dictate what comes next the way it has in the passed 2 films, because if they just start throwing random villains on screen we’re going to end up back in Joel Schumacher-land and nobody wants that.
On the story side though, I think they’re going to need to find a new Joker, because he motives almost ever aspect of the plot in TDK, it seems like it’d be kind of tough to write him out. Two-Face on the other hand seemed pretty dead to me at the end of the film, and story wise he pretty much served his purpose, plus it must of cost a Million Dollars a minute to generate that CGI face effect, so I think it’s pretty unlikely that you’ll see anymore of Two-Face, except maybe in flashbacks or “nightmare dream sequences” or something.
I wouldn’t mind Johnny Depp & Phil Hoffman as Riddler & Penguin, because Hoffman is such a pro and Depp was pretty intense in “The Libertine” I think he could pull off something that’d work. I don’t know how likely Riddler/Penguin are story-wise, unless they’re going to try and soft the blow of a new actor as the Joker by loading the next film with all the iconic villains, which could be pretty cool or it could totally suck, but cramming all the villains in the next film would be a great way to keep up the “non-stop” “action packed” pace of TDK.
Logically though Catwoman seems like the best choice for villain, Because Bruce Wayne’s love interest is now dead and Batman sort of an outlaw, and Catwoman is a potential love interest and sort of an outlaw, and she would play well into the themes of “morality & corruption” that run through the first 2 film.
I don’t know about Angelina Jolie though, I love in some things, but not so much in others. She has a strong “Screen Presence” but she’s not really the “chameleon-like” type of “Character Actor” that Nolan tends to cast.
Daniel: Exactly…they never said he was dead, and it would be aweful if they killed off this villain right after creating him.
Greenknight333: I wanna see this story come to life…I was actually wondering (now that his love has been killed off) when Alfred would be attacked.
Bradical: Yeah, that is a freaky resemblance, and Depp could pull off the look…but the acting? I think he would be too much like Sweeny Todd mixed with Jack Sparrow: Dark, yet kind of flamboyant. Heath’s joker is like an evil clown…not just dark, but evil. Something in his eyes…and he was funny, but not in a way that makes you want to be on his team…cause he was freakin’ nuts! He’ll feed you to the dogs.
And ok, does Batman really need to have a love interest in the next movie? I just don’t see Catwoman (even if she’s just Selena Kyle) fitting into the movie.
Ok, I’m sticking with my thoughts on Catwoman…but, maybe in a few years, when the DVD has been out for a good long time, and fans start to get over Heath’s untimely death, MAYBE people will be ready to accept a new actor as the Joker, just in time for the next Batman movie…so I pose the question: WHO should play that role…and no Johnny Depp please…?
If you’ve seen There Will Be Blood, then you can understand Daniel Day Lewis’ awesome ability to portray pure sinister evil…much the same as Ledger. If The Joker is not recast, then the series loses the “Darkness” that makes this reboot so amazing. The other part is that watching the characters and the storylines, it is plausibly by real world standards. To include Penguin, Riddler, or a lesser villian would only dilute the cynical view of the city of Gotham.
Nolan understands one thing very well…the struggle between good and evil and how circumstances lead to choice, which ultimately define a person’s character. Just remember Bruce’s choice in Begins, he DOES NOT kill his parents murderer; thus, he chooses a life of justice over a life of crime. Nolan’s purpose is simple: Good and Evil wage war, but good wins because truth is truth and light always overcomes darkness…
Characters do not matter as much as the general theme…if they make a third movie! Hypothetically though, Azreal is the best option, or a second opinion would be a Nighthawk and Bane storyline, Remember Nighthawk? Really though, the story of the Angel of Vengeance (Azreal), Jean Paul Valley…He took over while Bruce recovered from his broken back, created a new suit with tons of ways to KILL, and really forced Bruce to evaluate who Batman is and why he does act as a vigilante…this would be the best choice to continue the “Dark Knight” storyline. Whether or not the writers tie in Bane, Nighthawk, and “Knightfall” is another story, but definitely Azrael would be an awesome choice.
This would ultimately lead our hero to question the validity of his efforts. He would have to examine and question his purpose, just as Heath Ledger’s Joker did in “The Dark Knight.”
‘Nuff said…
As far as Catwoman is concerned…
She should be allowed a five minute cameo to re-introduce her own movie, but please…I hope you guys will just drop the idea of her character from entering The Dark Knight. I mean when I was involved with sports, the number one faux pas was to have a girlfriend to detract from my stored up testosterone. Plus, why introduce a love interest that Batman can actually love? If she’s in, it can only be a minor role, nothing too big, b/c then we’ll end up with a movie like Batman and Robin, wherein too many villians lead to interupted plot development.
Maybe this time…
I’m done writing…
Some rumors are saying that Maggie Gyllenhaal was signed to do 2 Batman movies. What if she comes back as Catwoman…what if she didn’t really die? On one hand, it could be a slap in the face to fans. On the other hand…actually, I don’t know if this would be good because…how could they make her Catwoman without it not being realistic in the Nolan world?
When will we get to see Batman fight Predators and Aliens in an alley for 2 hours though?…
Might be too light next to the brutally dark Dark Knight, but I’d watch this movie:
Gotham is on the fence about the Batman after the false revelations at the end of Dark Knight that he’s a killer. Harvey Dent has been declared dead, but Two-Face is actually locked up in Arkham, as is the Joker (and the Scarecrow, for that matter). The criminals of Gotham have been emboldened by the Joker’s wave of chaos, and more costumed freaks are popping up, but so far, none as big a threat as the Joker. In fact, things are getting more silly than scary. (Handled right, this can be a direct commentary on the campy eras of Batman in the 60s and again in the 90s with the terrible, overproduced and underwritten Schumacher films.)
One of the new rogues is a sexpot female cat burglar who we see famously evade capture by the Batman multiple times, leading to the media dubbing her Cat Woman (“If he’s the Bat Man, she’s the…”). Batman’s star seems to be fading… he’s old news and Gotham is becoming jaded. The media is actually celebrating the villains now (at least this Cat Woman character).
Catwoman gets under Batman’s skin … he’s rebounding and reeling emotionally after Rachel’s death in Dark Knight, so she is able to find a way in, to exploit his emotional wounds. Catwoman is part of a bigger ring of criminals, and she is working the Bat at their request, toying with him. A game of cat and mouse, until she’s ready to pounce. But Batman is no chump, and he is manipulating her right back, using her to get to the bigger fish. And he’s even maybe getting through to her a little, influencing her to get out of the darkness and do something for the side of right.
And running parallel to this, a recast Joker (with an actor willing and able to follow Ledger’s template) is taking part in the Nolan-zed version of “Mad Love,” where he first meets Harlene Quinzel (sp?) in Arkham and manipulates her into breaking him free from the asylum and becoming his obsessed plaything/sidekick/henchwoman, Harley Quinn.
We’ve got Batman luring Catwoman out of the darkness and the Joker sucking everything light from poor Harley Quinn, and the story can climax with the Arkham breakout that Harley sets into motion, which devolves in the Nolan universe into something less Bruce Timm and more Grant Morrison’s “Arkham Asylum.” Inside the Asylum, we’ll get the quickie cameos by more of the growing rogues gallery as Batman and Cat Woman work together to shut down the escape.
In the end, Harley and the Joker will make it out while Catwoman has to rethink her line of work as she has now painted a target on her back by siding with Batman against the baddies.
Many of you have good ideas. D18 Matt, I like your treatment the best for a story that includes Cat woman. I propose that you take it one step further and have a Joker copy cat that Harley falls for in the prison. He’s such a perfect copy, even if he seems second rate, Harley thinks he’s the real deal. Make her in charge of treating a list of other patients. She’s denied access to the Joker’s files or any of the “Real” nut jobs, including this copy cat. Her training and performance are inferior, but since the copycat isn’t in the intensive wing, they are able to interact. She sees him initially as a professional challenge, and forbidden fruit, later she falls for him. The real Joker never sees Harley, have him buried deep in Arkham. The warden, an out of state Psychiatrist, the commissioner, plus four guards that have been intensively trained, are the only ones that have access to him.
Of course no matter how good it is, the plot points have to be on the decision makers agenda!
I think the original Bob Kane villains would be the best choices, becase they require the least amount of back story.
Like The Joker is a bank robber who wears clown make up… Why? Because clown make up is a great disguise if your robbing banks. It’s completely self explanatory, then you don’t need to spend a half hour of screen time explaining who this guy is and where comes from, you can just cut to the action and get to the story.
Catwoman is great because “she’s a female cat burglar”… why? because she needs the money. Penguin is crooked businessman with a funny nose… why? no reason he just has a funny nose, and the fact that he’s deformed is the reason he grew up to be such a jerk. The simpler the villains are the better.
I don’t think the Riddler would work as a stand alone villain, because like Scarecrow and Two-Face you need a lot of back story to make the Riddler plausible. I mean as much as I liked Batman Begins, it’s a little dull because it’s like 2 hours of back story and 30 minutes of action, and all the more recent villains are going to have the same problem because they all evolved over several issues of comics. I really don’t want to spend $15 in IMAX theater, wathing the oringins of Bane unfold for 2 and half hours, I just don’t care.
My vote for the premise of Bat3 would be, make the Penguin the new crime boss in town and give him henchman named the Riddler who’s trying to lure Batman out of hiding. “meanwhile” there’s a new female cat burglar prowling the streets of Gotham, and the Scarecrow helps The Joker bust out of Arkham Asylum, because Scarecrow knows Arkham pretty well, and then mayhem ensues…
They should recast the Joker, but it should only be for a brief a scene or two. Batman visits him in Arkham Asylum for information, or curiousity (he never did get to hear about how he got his scars), or for some deeper purpose.
Give a new actor a chance to show he’s good enough to equal what Ledger did, without making him carry half the film and give the audience time to tally up the differences between him and Ledger.
The Joker is too important to Batman to never have him in the films again. Heath Ledger did a phenomenal job. But another actor, if he’s good enough (and there are actors who are good enough) and if it’s written well, can earn the audience’s respect too.
And Two Face has to stay alive. I never thought for a minute he died at the end of the TDK, and was surprised when someone else did. The only problem with Two-Face is his suit. They can’t just do the half-and-half thing. It’s too campy.
Digdug, there is a rumor going around that there were scenes filmed at Arkham with Ledger that Nolan cut from the film.
(I so hope those rumors are true!!)
^
I’m with you on Twoface , but he should have some work done closing up his jawline and all.
I’ve been working out a script in my head that combines the following villains: Clock King, The penguin, the Riddler, Bane, Talia Al’Ghul.
And, as a rival vigilante: Azriel
Here’s the treatment so far:
Film opens with Temple Fuget (The clock king) walking into a Gotham corporation in broad daylight. He’s spent weeks casing the place, and has a series of watches strapped to his arm set with timers counting down moments of movement, ie, he has every employee/security guard’s habits down to the second so he knows when they’ll take a leak or look away from his desk. This brazen robbery goes perfectly, until he stumbles upon a couple getting randy in a supply closet he ducks into. It’s a clock hand blade for those poor bastards. The Clock king makes into the CEO’s office just as the guy goes to piss, downloads files onto a jump drive and walks right out again.
Meanwhile, in the narrows, we see a young man sitting in a dark, dreary apartment staring the wall. Suddenly the old, cracked TV set turns on revealing a wall of flames, a coin appears in the middle of the flames reading “St. Dumas”. A speaker recites rhetoric demanding the young man avenge those slain in the Clock King’s robbery, by decree of St. Dumas. The young man stands up, pulls his hood over his head and leaps from the window.
The Clock King meets with the last of Gotham’s mobsters not arrested or slain by the Joker, delivers the flash drive and is paid handsomely. The mobsters depart, Clock King is on his way out when he runs into Azriel. CK is amused, thinking it’s Batman and at worse he’s going to jail; until Azriel pops his arm blade and informs CK that “he has him confused with someone else.” Azriel kills CK, fulfilling the cause of vengance, and disappears.
Comissioner Gordon and his men show up to investigate the CK’s death. Gordon’s cops are all convinced it’s Batman but Gordon knows better. Batman and Gordon have a convo in the shadows (Gordon steps away, he’s started smoking since Two-face’s attack on his fam) and Batman pledges to find this new copycat killing bad guys.
The mobsters take the CK’s stolen flash drive to the one man left in Gotham who can help them: Oswald Cobblepot. See, Oswald was a mobster, but was smart enough to launder money the right way and go legit. Publicly, at least. Just don’t call him “the penguin” or you get shot. The Mobsters have stolen a database of all Gotham’s corporate ventures across the board, including Wayne Tech. Scared by Batman (even more scared by the Joker) they have a new plan: mix their illicit fortune with corporate money, thereby “buying” majority shares in Gotham’s top companies and ergo, “buying Gotham.” The penguin lets them know he has the smarts to help them, if he gets something out of it. A deal is struck.
The mayor, feeling public pressure, declares that since Batman is now seeming to kill on a whim, he can’t leave it up to Gordon’s discretion to bring the vigilante to justice. So he’s appointing a special investigator to track Batman down, a serial killer wiz who happens to have a knack for crossword puzzles and other newspaper brain-games. His name is Eddy LAST NAME and he’s been looking for a challenge like the Batman, whose motives are unknown, unfamiliar, original. Gordon thinks the guy is nuts.
Final thread: Bruce Wayne has nothing but Batman left in his life. He sits in the cave under Wayne Manor 24/7 working overtime to both eradicate the remaining, warring mobs, the new crops of costume crazies springing up, and bring Batman up to the stature of a hero. It’s draining him, more than anyone would like to admit. One night in the gave Bruce has an ill feeling and starts tossing Batarangs into the shadows. Sure enough, ninja have invaded the gave, seemingly aware of the Bat/Bruce connection. A quick fight ensues until a pair of hands clap and the ninja fall back: Talia Al Ghul makes her entrance. She gives Bruce a speech about how her father groomed her to be his successor (until he met Bruce) and how the League of Shadows had a splinter cell known as the Order of St. Dumas. When Ra’as fell, The Order was activated as plan B, and Azriel was dispatched to Gotham (the Joker’s appearance expedited the League’s plan, as Gotham appeared to be producing the worst evil imaginable.) Talia was curios about Bruce and so came to see for herself who this 1 in a million man was: she explains that he is the only man EVER to carry out the fight for justice at sacrifice to all else in his life. Azriel she explains, is a programmed sleeper soldier, only-semi aware of his vigilante actions, controlled by syblminal suggestions (The “program”) inculcated in him by The Order. Talia’s motives remain unclear, leaving Bruce wary, but, attracted nonetheless.
The rest I’m mapping out in my head but it involves The mob using the penguin’s contacts to hire Bane; Bats and Azriel having a physical/moral rivalry; Bane kicking the shit out of Batman; Azriel running around Gotham unchecked; Eddy the investigator realizing that Batman’s absence and Bruce Wayne’s “skiing injuries,” combined with Bruce’s tramatic history make him the Batman; Bruce using Azriel in the Bat suit to thwart Eddy’s theory, humiliating Eddy and driving him to become E. Nigma; Injured Bats recruiting Azriel to help stop Bane, forming a bond between the heroes; Bruce and Talia getting it on; Talia having a doomsday plan for Gotham should Azriel fail; E. Nigma using his smarts and cop credentials to aid the Mob and Penguin with their plan; Talia seeing how Bruce/Batman changes Azriel from an assassin to a hero and calling off the League of Shadows, believing that Batman can truly save Gotham’s soul (and she’s secretly crushing on Bruce.)
So what do you think? Good movie potential? (trying to hustle this script!)
Kofi; Love the density of your plot. It distills down what most people want to see, and has the feeling of “knightfall.” Do you think it would be hard to sell, given the studio thinks most viewers are idiots, unable to follow it? Maybe sell them on the idea that it bears up under repeat viewings. The more often you see it, the deeper it becomes. As long as the studio isn’t bucking “Cracked’s” article you gotta shot..
http://www.cracked.com/article_16176_8-pointless-laws-all-comic-book-movies-follow.html
Good Job and Good Luck.
i think that another very good joker possibility would be james franco. i mean he’s got the long hair now because of the pineapple express. and i think he looks very similiar to ledger. plus he has bad guy experience of of spiderman 3.
Tayor;James Franco would be a good choice for the Joker, I think Jude Law would be pretty good too, he’s played a few pretty creepy psycho killers, in “Road to Perdition” and “The Wisdom of Crocodiles” plus he one of the guys filling in for Heath Ledger in “The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus”
James Franco needs to stay in the Spider Man universe, dead btw.
(IMO) once actors portray a superhero, they shouldn’t do any other superheros…
Franco especally.
somebody tell that to james marsden…geez. i HATED how he was in xmen and superman…not quite as bad as the silverhawks having the same EXACT voices as the thundercats, but still he was annoying…
Good point Comic Geek, for some reason I didn’t have a prob with that. Maybe becasue Cyclops was killed off so randomly in X3. ???
Also he went from Marvel to a DC film. ???
I don’t have a problem with actors being in multiple comic films. To be honest I like it. However I don’t want James Franco in the new batman films because frankly I think he is terrible.
so i saw a picture of johnny depp with heath ledger’s joker make up on and it looked just like him. i think he could do it. but i like the james franco idea too. he could possibly pull it off.
OK, I got bored reading it. You gotta stop viewing characters as heroes and villains. Everyone’s a hero in their own mind. And it’s been that way for Ra’s Al Ghul and the Joker.
Apparently Aaron Eckhart is signed on to the third film, so he’ll probably be in it. So long as he doesn’t redeem himself in some morally self-righteous way, it’s all good.
Johnny Depp can do dark, and could do the Riddler. But there’s no point trying to guess who’ll be in the film, since Nolan and Goyer will pick someone better. It’s their story so our suggestions are just fueling the pressure from the producers to add certain villains and certain actors.
Best just leave it to them.