(My dear readers, you have permission to treat this rumor as hostile.)
Not two days after wild rumors started circulating that Angelina Jolie was looking to play Catwoman in Christopher Nolan’s third chapter of the Batman Begins series, comes an even wilder rumor from out of the UK that Warner Bros. execs have begun eying top-notch actors Johny Depp and Oscar-winner Philip Seymour Hoffman for the roles of The Riddler and The Penguin in the next Bat-flick
DON’T DRINK THE KOOL-AID JUST YET. For every new rumor of which villains will be featured in the next Batman film, comes another statement from Dark Knight scribes Jonathan Nolan and David S. Goyer, saying that they are trying NOT to take the obvious route of throwing the second-most iconic villains from Batman’s rogue gallery into the next film. However, as Spider-Man 3 taught us all, when a franchise reaches a certain $tature, the studio’s wishes quickly begin to trump any creative desires. Don’t be surprised to see The Riddler, The Penguin, or both, show up in the final draft of the script.
However, we won’t really know anything until a script for BB3 is actually done. But that hasn’t stopped fan debates from raging 24/7. Personally, I don’t think Goyer and Nolan should be working too hard to try to pull out obscure villains and/or plotlines for the next installment. If Heath Ledger’s performance in The Dark Knight taught us anything, it’s that an actor at the top of his or her game is able to take what is iconic and totally redefine it. (And fanboys, really, is that not the essence of all the best comic books: re-definition of the status quo?)
Which villains do you think should make into BB3?
Source: Comic Book Movie
‘Anchorman 2′ Trailers Tease the Return of Ron Burgundy’s News Team [Updated] 
Hugh Jackman Reveals Summer Start Date for ‘Wolverine 2′ 
‘Walking Dead’ Season 3 Preview Reveals The Prison & Michonne [Updated] 
‘Iron Man 3′ Begins Production; Secures Increased Budget 
Loading ...
Good idea, Fred, regarding the upgrade to the Bat Tank…logical result of the abuse it took from the last attack. Since it did a self-destruct, Fox can easily rebuild it with the improvement added. I also concur with your assessment of the Batsuit. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it!
I like the idea of a stun gun since it is so important to Bruce Wayne that Batman not become an executioner. It’s a protection without being lethal.
Fred wrote: “But I am not going to create a romance between Batman and Catwoman, just subtle sexual tention. I just don’t want the romance to take away from the magnitude of the plot.”
Touche!!! I think subtle is the way to go, otherwise the story may tend to derail. Your use of the word “magnitude” says much…the plot is way too grand to be cheapened by a sordid affair! Good thinking!
I’m looking forwar to reading what you come up with!
My choice for a main villain would be The Riddler. Can you integrate him into a story with Catwoman?
Rupert Thorne = Either Joe Mantegna or Paul Sorvino; they both remind me of the BTAS visualization of Thorne.
@FRED
since i dont think im getting Mr Freeze…
, i think it would be cool if Bats had some sort of ice bomb, it freezes peoples feetz to the ground.
@Vic
is there any way i can make a comment straight from my email
@Fred
If you are looking for a way to introduce Catwoman with an origin why not try flashbacks? It worked pretty well for the other movies. When Catwoman is first confronted by Batman she could start having her flashbacks. To keep up with the dark and intense feel of the movies, Catwoman could have gone through a rough childhood or bad life in Gotham itself. Just a rough idea, I like the gadget ideas by the way
@mattali
Yes, I can intergrate the Riddler into the script.
I am trying to not make it sound corny or goofy . It is surprislngly hard to do such a thing because Riddler and Catwoman have very little connection plots . But I will connect the two via the main mobster, Sal Falcone( son of Carmine Falcone) – The idea is to connect Batman 3 to Batman Begins as well. So Sal Falcone has taken over the underworld of Gotham city , however has rival mobsters threatening to take away his power .These mobsters are impossible to kill mainly because they recieve an immence amount of protection due to the power they inherited from other countries such as Japan(yakiza clan), China(Triad clan)-as these rival clans are trying to expand their empire in Gotham. I am going to imply that Gotham has become a gold mine sort of place for mobsters and gangsters.This may seem over the top , but it is the only logical way to imply
that Batman’s job is never going to be over and will allow me to develop a forth personallity with Bruce Wayne/Batman, as well as connect Catwoman and Riddler. There is no point in doing a third part on Batman if the main hero has not changed or is not changing in some personal way. Plus this will allow me to set the movie up to be a tragedy-following in the footsteps of Nolan’s take.
Now from this point is where Riddler and Catwoman come in. Catwoman will be employed by Sal Falcone to steal the rival mobster clan’s assets such as their Gold and Diamonds, and sell them off himself-more money equals more power,especially for a mob boss. This will also reduce the power of rival gangs. I will also create some friction between Catwoman and Sal to develop the plot.
Now since Riddler is the main villian-I will use flash backs to highlight his tormented past and how he became OCD. I will do something different and creative compared to the comic books as I have learned quiet a bit of information from the past in school about OCD in Psycology. So I will make a realistic, logical, intense origin to Riddler and his OCD.
I though about who Riddler is and to me he should be something to suit the Nolan universe. The Joker(according to the Nolan universe) is someone who is hell bent on putting a mirror towards Gotham’s face and showing why rules are their downfall while being almost an insane anarchist, as well as someone who is a cunning planner. So the Riddler should be someone who is a tormented and tortured soul that is longing for recognition from Gotham city and himself in utlising his skill of puzzle solving. I will also add a subtle gritty, intimidating side to Eddy- you would expect that from someone who is OCD. He should be someone who has become OCD within setting such high standards with this skill . He is not an anarchist like the Joker, but an intellect who feeds of someone elses intellect-in this case Batman. I intend on bringing out Batman’s dectective skills to the fullist and pushing them to the limits.That is my take on the Riddler. By the way, I will not be calling The Riddler ‘The Riddler’. He will be refered to as Edward Nashton, and occasionally called the Riddler. Believe it or not, in the alternate universes of some DC comics, The Riddler is actually called Eddie Nashton. And since Nolan does have an alternate universe( one with no superheroes ) , why not? Just that I find it a strange coincidence that Riddler’s last name is Nygma. But I will keep it Nygma if you guys wish.
Eddy will be a detective hired by Gotham Police Central in finding out who blew up all the D.A. offices in all over Gotham( remember, The Dark Knight, when Batman took the fall for Harvey Dent’s vendetta killings. This caused a lot of gutsy District Attorneys(D.A. s)-thus killing all the gutsy D.A.s and as well as finding out who Batman is. Eddy cares about finding out who Batman is as it an amazing thrill factor rather than who blew up all the D.A. offices-the reason for this will be revealed in flashbacks. Riddler then becomes corrupt via Sal , and it is revealed that Sal Falcone has seeked out help from other mobster clans from other countries such as the Triads and Yakiza to help him blow up the D.A. offices, killing the D.A.s who are standing up to the mobs to bring back Gotham the way it used to be. Now Sal promised the clan members that they can send in a representitive from each clan to take a spot in Gotham’s underworld. Sal decides to corrupt Eddie,offering him a lot of money, as he is broke, to find out who Batman is and to drop he investigation as to who bombed the D.A. offices. So Batman has to finally dawn the cape and clow.I’ll explain how Eddy becomes “The Riddler” and how Catwoman gets fully involved in the final Script-it is no fun
if I tell you the entire story and then read the posted up the script later as you know what is going to be in it.
So what do you think- remember , I am going for a very realistic take on Batman 3 and making it something that concerns Gotham rather than something personal, but like I said before, it is really hard to mesh Riddler and Catwoman together . But this is my take . So any suggection on my take on the Riddler? Any suggections on the plot that I have outlined?
Let me know.
@mattali
I don’t know about going into Catwoman’s origin as I feel that it is not needed and will take away from the origin of the Riddler. For Catwoman, I will just touch upon it and she can breifly explain little bits and pieces about she came to be rather than do flashbacks.
What do you think?
Your plot proposals seem to be going in an interesting direction! I like your thoughts on how to proceed with Batman’s character and his fight for Gotham.
I’m not real big on knowing the back-stories of all the villains. Catwoman doesn’t need an origin; we can assume how she came to be what she is. If her character turns out to be intriguing enough to warrant it, her back-story can be fleshed out a bit somewhere down the road.
I believe the same goes for The Riddler. Do we really need to know all about what made him what he is in order to have him be a viable character? If you decide to use flashbacks to give him some history, I think it should be bare minimum. You don’t want to introduce too many sidetracks from your main plot.
I think this is developing well! I’m looking forward to reading the finished product more everyday!!!
Yes, the flashbacks will be kept to a bare minimum-I am only planning two flashbacks for Eddy, each only being 20 seconds. You can cover enough information in that time frame.
I will also make sure that Catwoman has little screen time-no too little though, just enough to peel back the layers of Bruce Wayne.
In a way you can look at this being a battle of the mobsters and the Riddler comes out on top- how he does so will be revealed in the final script.
That sounds like a solid plan, Fred!
I am liking the idea of the Riddler 20 second flashbacks. I think these flashbacks can give the audience a reason to pity the Riddler much like people felt sorry for Dent. However, unlike Dent, the Riddler will reamin a villain and won’t be someone that “might” switch sides. No chance, the Riddler is bad.
One thing I am having a hard time handling is the Riddler and Catwoman being in the same movie. I think that is just too much. I thought that Jim Carey’s Riddler didn’t get enough recognition because he shared time with Tommy Lee Two Face. This just seems like the same kind of deal. I don’t think it matters how much screen time you give Catwoman, if she is there, she will be taken more seriously to the audience than the Riddler. That’s my opinion.
I don’t think the Riddler should have too much to do with the mob. The Joker took over the mob last movie so we don’t want the Riddler to do the same. Having Thorne run for mayor and also being the new mob boss keeps him busy enough. I mean Batman won’t even be that involved with Thorne yet.
Speaking of Batman, while the Riddler makes a name for himself and Thorne runs for mayor, I feel that the story of Victor Zsasz can still work within this script as a distraction for Bruce. Now, this Zsasz story is not about Zsasz VS Batman, and how Zsasz compares to Batman previous villains. This story is about Alfred, Bruce’s butler/father figure/best friend/common sense, coming very close to death. This will show how fragile Bruce can be without the mental aid of Alfred’s advice.
After Zsasz is takien care of and Alfred is safe, Bruce can focus on the Riddler, but Alfred is still inthe hospital, so Bruce is still spending most of the rest of the film on his own. This will just add on to the cops being on his tail.
Since we have the Riddler, Zsasz and Thorne, I don’t think Deadshot should be included. However, watching Deadshot assassinate Anthony Garcia would be pretty epic. Maybe, Deadshot can be in the film after this one, and in that film we will discover that it was in fact Deadshot who did shoot Garcia. We will see how things play out.
So, I would like to see the Riddler strut his stuff all around Gotham, and this is where Gordon would pop up mostly, on the Riddler crime scenes. He will also start to have problems with Thorne when he becomes mayor and might get fired, don’t know how I feel about that yet.
By the end of the film…
The Riddler and Batman will know each other well and would have had a big battle.
Victor Zsasz would have killed himself after failing to kill Alfred.
Rupert Thorne will by the mayor.
Overall, I think the movie will actually end on a more evil note this time around. Batman will save the day from the Riddler, but Gotham will look in bad shape with Thorne not taken care of like Falcone and Maroni were, and the Riddler still on the loose, unlike the Joker, Scarecrow, Two Face and Ra’s al Ghul.
Of course, I still don’t think we have seen the last of Scarecrow or the Joker, but that will have to wait.
@Jay P
Joker did not take over the mob-in The Dark Knight, he only asked for half, not 51% of the mob profits. and Harvey killed Maroni.Joker was simply like an assasin to take down Harvey and kill Batman . He went over board by pointing a mirror to Gotham and showing them why rules were bad.He was an anarchist that wanted to achieve a world with no rules.Not take over the mob, just use it and double cross it.Yes it appeared that he did take over the mob, but he did not, he used all the mobs assets at his disposal.I like your idea of using Zsaaz. But there is one problem when it comes to using Zsaaz along with the Riddler. Now the focus of unstable mental states has to not only be on Riddler , but also on Bruce Wayne/Batman. See this will take impact from each others character.
Since you brought up the Rupert Thorne idea, I am leaning more towards it as he can affect Gotham more, and I do not even want to mesh Catwoman along with Riddler-just an odd fit. If I use Rupert Thorne , I will use Rupert as the main villian rather than a main Mobster-because he can be the one pulling the strings, dictating the terms. I am still going to go for the Sal Falcone plot idea for main mobster-Sal will also mesh perfectly with Rupert. But I will be creative with Rupert and add some intimidating aspects to him that are based on past evil world leaders. I am having trouble fitting Riddler with Rupert. And I am going to make this script something concerning Gotham, not just some personal battle between Batman and his main villian. Doing this will add more impact to Batman’s heroics. Deadshot will make one cameo, thats it, no origin or character development. After all, it would be epic to see Deadshot murder Garcia.
With a side villian, I may not want to use one as Rupert and Sal should be enough for Batman to handle or I could do Riddler as the side villian, as Riddler is also not the kind of villian to affect Gotham in any dramatic way so quickly.
I will make Rupert be the one having a good working relationship with Sal as Rupert wants to have some of the power of the mob. Using Sal will give Sal a good reason to go after Batman as Sal can avenge his father’s humiliation , which was caused by Batman-thus linking Batman 3 with Batman begins at the same time. Now I can focus on developing a frictional relationship between Sal and Rupert.
My take on Rupert Thorne is a power greedy person who sacrifices others for his own personal gain. He like to call the shots and manipulate anyone in his way. He lusts for money, suppresion of others and suckering people by false promises- he will be someone who want to put Gotham into dictatorship by his own hand. He is calculative , calm, gritty and plays thing close to his chest.
What do you think?
So this is the structure of the script:
Main Villian: Rupert Thorne
Side Villian: Riddler or Zsazz
Main mobster: Sal Falcone
I need more ideas for a side villian-with reasoning.
Hm…Jay P and Fred…certainly some interesting concepts!
Yes the Joker asked for 50%, however, he wanted to get rid of the moband take Gotham as his own and have everyone work for him.
The Joker to the Chen Chen: Tell your men they work for me now, this is my city.
He kills Gambol, kills the Chen Chen and would have killed Maroni too if Maroni had shown up to the meeting. Instead Maroni told Gordon where the Joker was going to be.
Maroni to Gordon: You want him? I can tell you where he will be in the next 15 minutes.
The Joker to the Chen Chen: Where’s the Italian?
The Joker wanted to kill all of the mobsters and own Gotham City. In my opinion, that means taking over the mob.
Fred: He used all the mobs assets at his disposal.
This is what happens when someone takes over something, they use it. We can’t have the Riddler doing anything close to what the Joker did or else it will not be origial. The Riddler has to stay away from the mob and simply work by himself. He is smart enough to do that.
I don’t think the Riddler will be a huge threat to Gotham like the Joker was, so the Riddler doesn’t need henchmen or anyone helping him. He is more of an annoying project for Batman. Bruce needs to find this guy by using his detective skills and he also has to dodge the cops. Plus, as the new mayor, Thorne would put even more pressure on the cops to kill Batman.
In the first two movies it was Batman VS the enemies, but this time, it is Batman VS everyone. Cops, Mayors and Villains.
This movie should have nothing to do with Bruce’s emotional struggle to be or not be Batman, we dealt with that last film. It should be all about Bruce’s physical struggle to deal with all of these problems at once without making Gotham suffer even more. Plus, it will briefly touch on his emotinal connection with Alfred and his intelligence when figuring out the Riddler’s puzzles.
It’s a good mix.
Very good points, Jay P, concerning the Joker and the mob. However, I think the Joker’s intention in gaining control of the mob was not to be the mobster boss (like a mobster would be motivated to initiate a takeover), it was because in using his twisted logic, he saw the need to remove the mob bosses so he could use their men in order to carry out his psychotic plans. As soon as he didn’t need them anymore he’d have disposed of them in the very efficient manner he used to dispose of their bosses. He considered himself a “better class of criminal” not a mobster, which I think is the angle Fred was coming from when he said the Joker didn’t want to take over the mob…is that what you meant, Fred, or did I miss the boat, too?
Jay P. wrote: “This movie should have nothing to do with Bruce’s emotional struggle to be or not be Batman, we dealt with that last film.”
I sort of disagree, Jay P. While Bruce’s main motivation for wanting to let the Batman persona go is no longer an issue now that Rachel is dead, i.e. being able to pursue a normal life with her; I think he will always be looking for the time when he will be able to hang up the cloak. Bruce has an aversion to criminals, and like it or not, that’s what Batman is. It will always be an emotional struggle for him and will affect the decisions he makes to some extent. However, you are correct when you say that particular struggle should not be the main concern this time even if it is still hovering in the background.
“this town deserves a better class of criminal, and im going to give it to them.” kinda proves that Joker didnt really want the mob in his “perfect chaos” but good points Jay P. I gotta agree with Mattali, Bruce will always have that mental struggle on wheather he wants to be Batman or have a normal life, but we all know that a normal life for Bruce is not going to happen as long as their is a villan and Bruce is still in his top form. Bruce cant give up even if he wants to, his really identity if he realizes it or not, is Batman not Bruce Wayne.
Although I really really dont like the Riddler, I think at this point he is the best choice for a side or main villan (your choice, I rather he be a main villain but I fear he wouldnt be able to hold the intensity for the entire movie). Considering the cops on a masive manhunt for Batman and the mob not too happy with his actions in the last movie, Batman is going to have a few issues so why not push some of his limits even more? during that time he can still wuestion himself,”do I still want to be Batman or is it time to hang up the cowl? What if this really is my limit?”
I also agree with the Riddler not getting involved with the mob. He will feel much superior to the mob since he is really smart and he likes to “play games” with people, not just quick and dirty like the mob.
Kinda glad you dropped the idea of Catwoman. I kinda feared she would steal the show no matter how little screen time you gave her.
@mattali
No you did not miss the boat. That is exactly what I was talking about.Joker rips off Mob dealers, so why would he take over the mob?
He has his twisted logic, so he would use the mob boss’ men to carry out his psychotic plans. As soon as he didn’t need them anymore he would have killed them all of in the very efficient manner and dispose of their bosses. I forgot to use the quote-“better class of criminal” , which is what he considers himself as to properly state my point.
Now for my script.
Main Villian:Rupert Thorne
Side Villian:Riddler
Main Mobster:Sal Falcone
My plot involes Batman being at war with not only the cops and criminals, but also the new mayor(Rupert), the main mobster, rival mob clans from other countries(yakuxa and triads) and Gotham.
This truly highlights Batmans goal on having a war on the criminals. If I am to match the magnitude of the Dark Knight in any way, then I have to make sure that Batman faces a threat that is bad for Gotham, but unlike the Joker, Gotham does not see the threat as a bad thing-Rupert Thorne will be decieving Gotham. And it is up to Batman to expose him. Riddler will be working with Rupert Thorne and have nothing to do with the mob. Just a better fit.20% of the movie will focus on Batman/Bruce Wayne going through a mental degradation. And it will be Bruce Waynes dominant side -Batman , that will save him, or not. i will try to highlight Batman this time as Bruce Wayne’s dominant side , to some extent.
The script will tell the full story.
By the way, I am writing Batman 3 in script format because it can fill in the most amount of description-this is not a novel.
Oh, and Riddler will be the good guy who will transform into the villian.
Good choices, but I’m going to miss Catwoman!
Wow this one has been going for a while 400 comments lol
That’s because it is addressing such intriguing possibilities!
What do you think of Azrael as a side villian instead. Not exactly a villain per se, but as Batman’s greatest threat; a vigilante more potent than Batman himself. This will allow for the “redemption” of the Batman. In TDK, Batman became, in the end, as bloodied and stained as the Joker himself (in the mind of the city), for the sake of maintaining Dent’s purity. When Azrael, a lethal vigilante, blows open Arkham and goes on a villain-killing spree, Batman will prove that he is still a hero and not the criminal vigilante that Gotham has come to see him as. But more interesting still would be to reveal that Azrael was a pawn, part of a larger plot to eliminate the criminal power base of Gotham so that a mysterious figure could take over. From this point it can be revealed that Rupert Thorne was the guy pulling the strings. It just fits with the ending of TDK. I am going through each and every villian to see if it works and thus transform that villian to be realistic and thus more threatning.
What do you think?
You could use Deadshot in the exact same way you are thinking of using Azrael. Him woking for Thorne and everything. It would work. Just an other option.
@Fred
that kinda kills Azrael as a character because he is a vigalante killing for justice not for thorne.
Fred wrote: “But more interesting still would be to reveal that Azrael was a pawn, part of a larger plot to eliminate the criminal power base of Gotham so that a mysterious figure could take over. From this point it can be revealed that Rupert Thorne was the guy pulling the strings.”
Michael seems concerned with a possible compromise of Azrael’s character if your story line is developed. So is the pulling of Azrael’s strings by Thorne something that Azrael does not realize? Does he think he’s killing in an effort to see justice done but is really being manipulated by Thorne unbeknownst to him?
If you worried bout that then i would go with mattali’s idea. If Azrael dosent realize what he is really doing then he will still think he is a vigilante bringing justice to Gotham, doing the job that Batman can no longer do.
This Azrael story would take the audience away from Batman. This story is about Batman and the problems he needs to deal with.
The Azrael unknowingly being used by Thorne idea is good, but it gives too much focus to Azrael and not enough on Batman.
I say use Deadshot if you want a vigilante that kills people, not Azrael. We don’t want any good guys or half good guys. A big part of this next film is how Batman has to do everything on his own. He doesn’t get usual help from Gordon, Dawes or Dent. He is doing everything on his own.
Throwing Azrael in would just make it seem like, when Azrael turns good, he will be just the person Batman needs for help.
Fake Batman: We’re trying to help you!
Batman: I don’t need any help!
Let’s keep it that way.
Okay, so Azarel is out. And deadshot will be the secondary/side villian
By the way, just a crazy idea-so do not go off at me for pitching it. Just tell me why it would not work.
I have found ways to make Nolan’s Batman/Bruce Wayne fit into the whole justice league movie, even though Nolan’s Batman does not 50% of the time.
I can nail two birds with stone with this idea:Bruce losing Fox and Batman becoming the fitting for the justice league -according to the comics.
Fox suffered a stroke two months ago, and Bruce Wayne is studying everything from mechanics to forensics to computer sciences(hardware and software) as well as business managment to be a CEO if he needs to since if he hires a CEO that is corrupt,it would be a hinderance to the company financially. Then he has a conversation with Alfred that If Fox is gone(kicking the bucket/paralysed with a stoke), then who will take over in helping him with his crusade of being the dark knight. How is he going to fix his gadgets and investigate in forensics of DNA to fingerprints-he is a detective after all.
Now what this does is makes the Nolan Batman a smart person who is also intellegent-which fits in with the Batman of the Justice League-according to the comics-as batman in the Justice league does use his head to find leads to tracking down the villians or has the ability to hack into computer systems.
And Bruce Wayne will have the time to do all these studies because so far I have foung out, while writing the script, that the best way to open Batman Three is to show that Gotham does not need Batman anymore, as Batman’s sacrifice in The Dark Knight to maintain Harvey Dent’s purity has inspried many Lawyers and Police offices in D.A. offices to stand up to the Mob and thus are taking it from there-and Bruce Wayne is still taking combat classes and doing 10 hours of all these studies since the day Fox recieves a stroke-Fox is alive so far. This is because Bruce is fearing the day when Gotham will need Batman. Then a powerful Mob boss-Sal Falcone(son of Carmine Falcone-yes the main mob bos in Batman Begins) plots with clan leaders from other countries ( such as the Yakiza and the Triads-I’ll probably only use the Yakiza ) to blow up all D.A. offices, sending the city of Gotham into choas from small time crooks and big time competing mob bosses-paving the way for Rupert Thorne-this happens all at the same time during the election for mayor of Gotham- between Garcia and Rupert – and Rupert is the corupt one who assanates Garcia via Deadshot.
So this is the story arc the script is taking on for Batman three – which will be titled – Resurection of The Dark Knight.
Let me know what you think.
And I want as much feedback as possible please on this story arc, as I am only going to write one 140 page script.
I like your idea but im not sure about the whole thing with Batman tying in to the justice league but thats just me. I do like the whole idea with the election and the D.A. offices. I think that would be very interesting!