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  • "Oh, so the politicians who fight for your rights every day on capital hill, desperately trying to pass laws that benefit you and your family deserve scorn then, is that it?"

    If you really believe this you are incredibly naive about what goes on in Washington.

    Based on comments from a few people here it's becoming blatantly obvious to me that an entire generation having been raised without having to sacrifice much due to the plenty in the U.S. has created a skewed vision of the world and people in general.

    I think I've seen enough in this thread - it's way jumped the tracks and it's just starting to aggravate me.

    Vic
  • Robert
    Sure. Soldiers are like lawyers, politicians, fire fighters, doctors, actors, murderers, peace keepers, police officers and drug dealers. Sometimes a soldier risks his life because he wants to serve a cause greater than themselves. Sometimes she just doesn't care about her life enough to not enlist in a dangerous career. There is much honor to be found in serving but there is also greatness in thinking for yourself, and knowing what's worth following. When our Marines were given orders to let the Iraqis riot and all but allow insurgents to take over, wouldn't it have been nice if they could act for themselves instead of just doing what corrupt generals told them to do?

    Corruption is endemic and runs through every job every office and I want to say every home. I don't think it's black and white because there are degrees of compromise we take in life. I find it interesting you're quick to point out that politicians make choices because it benefits them in some way, when that's been what I've been saying about EVERYONE. Ultimately, you seem to take the stance that a person's, uhm, value? is how much blood they leave or are willing to leave on the floor. I say the best a thing we can do is learn how to sew up another's wound.

    One thing I will never do is salute blindly. I don't believe it serves to ignore faults and focus on positive, I think it makes those negatives worse. You take it all, the good the bad and you try to keep it good. The image gets scuffed but the heart is stronger for it.
  • Ken J
    Wow, someone who respects politicians more than our service men... And I thought I've seen it all...

    I'm sure getting yourself into a cushy job where you never have to exert yourself, or risk anything, and possibly get rich from it, is such a self sacrificing way to live...

    Exactly how many poor politicians do you know? Those are probably the only honest ones, and there aren't too many of them. How is what they do honorable at all? I support certain politicians because they vote in a way that I agree with, not because of them as a person. They probably go the way they do because it benefits them in some way.

    Do you get rich being a cop? Do you get rich enlisting in the military? So while I agree it's not completely altruistic, the military and law enforcement jobs give you plenty of benefits, but there are plenty of other work where you get paid more AND you don't have to risk your life. The fact that these people chose that route show that they have some desire to do some good. Politicians, they KNOW they have a good chance to make it rich as long as they are successful in being a politician. Special interest groups donate hundreds of thousands of dollars to individual politicians if they know there's a bill to be voted on that might affect their business.

    To say that they are "fighting for our rights" is kind of ridiculous. SOME of them actually care, but most of them are just fighting along party lines. People who step out of those lines are kicked out like Joe Liebermann.

    The only people "fighting for our rights" are our troops and our law enforcement officers. I don't care what you say, comparing them to politicians is a downright insult. Why don't you compare them to lawyers while you're at it?
  • Robert
    Oh, so the politicians who fight for your rights every day on capital hill, desperately trying to pass laws that benefit you and your family deserve scorn then, is that it? Because they are the only ones who take questionable paths to achieve their goals?

    Sacrificing your life is a big deal, I'm not trying to dismiss this. But to think they get nothing out of it, that the gun doesn't give a power surge, that the authority doesn't go to the head, that's just... Silly. I think it's also asinine to dismiss politicians, so I assume your just saying we shouldn't compare them to military and law enforcement because they don't get shot at. And even if that's the case, I contend they are fighting every single day.
  • Ken J
    Uuuhhhhh, I'm sorry, but did you just put politicians in the same arena as law enforcement and the military??

    Ok, I will try to maintain composure here...

    If someone breaks into your house with a gun and threatens to kill you and your family, do the "boys in blue" a favor and just don't call them, because apparently you don't need them, and they don't need you putting their lives on the line to try to save yours, just handle it yourself.

    What is this, the start of the "let's insult all of our service men" trend??
  • Robert
    I dunno about 'mass hysteria', but I don't think that soldiers are entirely altruistic either. No offense intended, but there is a rush on the field as I understand it, holding a man's life in your own hands. I'm not saying soldiers are only in it for the killing, I just feel that it's naive to think that the soldiers on the field are 'doing it for the team' only, purely at their own expense. Next you'll tell me the boys in blue are our best friends and politicians have our best interests at heart.

    ]]
  • Ken J
    Yah Vic, I agree with that one. Amol, you basically just made a personal attack on most of my friends and myself...
  • @Amol

    Someone sacrificing their life for another is MASS HYSTERIA?

    I'm not even going to respond to that. I'm done talking to you about this.

    Man oh man...

    Vic
  • @Amol,,,

    Sigh ,,,,,

    Both Iron Man & Batman were altruistic.

    Iron Man had Yinsen, and Batman has Alfred.

    Case closed
    Next ,,,,
  • Amol
    @Vic

    ("all you have to do is look at soldiers in battle sacrificing their lives for those of their comrades and that blows a huge hole in anyone’s “no one is altruistic” theory.
    ")

    I think its just MASS HYSTERIA.

    HYSTERIA: wild uncontrollable emotion or excitement.
    (source: The Oxford Dictionary)

    Once inside the Battle, it's important to overcome fear and the only brain knows to overcome it in EXTREME conditions is Mass Hysteria.
  • KEL
    * Vic ;)
  • KEL
    and vic's the man! :D
  • KEL
    Geez louise papa cheese....you have no idea how scary it is to log into your email account and find all these posts from this topic! I'm so glad they weren't about my post lol.

    You all are entertaining me...I want you to know that... :p
  • Amol
    Ofcourse, I am NIL in psychology. How should I know ? I just put forward what I thought I GENUINELY experienced.

    BTW, Do any of you by any chance, have Good Batman comics in PDF format? We could exchange some on the net.
  • Daniel
    Sorry 790 just so you know you can always just stop looking at them. Also Ken isn't the only one responding to him so why are you only labeling him with the enabling title?
  • Ken J
    What? I just respond whenever he directs something at me the like any other person has been responding when a comment is directed at them, lol. But ok, anyway, I second your "motion" anyhow, it's WAY off topic. Especially once I start talking about hot girls you really don't want it to continue down that road... :-D
  • 790
    Vic can you shut down the comments on this thread.

    I can take it anymore,,,,,,,,,

    Amol,,, your trolling bigtime.
    Ken,,, your just enabling him.
  • Ken J
    Amol, psychology is just a class you take in college because it's an easy A and it is full of hot girls... ;-)
  • @Amol

    I'm not going to read your two massive posts, but will just say that all you have to do is look at soldiers in battle sacrificing their lives for those of their comrades and that blows a huge hole in anyone's "no one is altruistic" theory.

    I'm done.

    Vic
  • Amol
    @Ken

    What?!
    That theory/observation/experience of mine INDEED IS in some Psychology book by some Pyscho… OOPS… Psychologist?!!
    CAN’T BELIEVE IT !!
    Oh may be then I have do have some cerebrums (a learning one at that) on my shoulders !!!
    Thanks for telling me that. I did not know it. I just stated it as I learnt it from Life.
    And that is one of the most basic lessons of the psyche that I observed/learnt from Life. I think it must be true. Isn’t it? I mean I don’t know. I never learned psychology during academic years. If any of you have learnt it, I would like to learn some basics from you. Ofcourse I can access it from the net anytime. But a discussion is better. The basic psychology. Knowledge of it could be advantageous in real practical life.
    @ de ron Assis
    I said : Because I have that degree, I am in a ‘BETTER’ position (than most of you) and NOT in the ‘BEST EVER’ position to judge SCI-FI movies. Got the difference?
    …And if any one is more qualified/experienced than me in that field, I say nothing is better than that! We could discuss Sci-Fi movies (of course not out jobs. They are confidential.)
    @ No Name Face
    By Atheist, I don’t exactly mean a non-believer, (I don’t know what religion you belong to but ) just like Lord Jesus Christ is a God for Christians (I think most of you are Christians on this forum), we have Lord Krishna, Lord Ram and many others as Gods in Hinduism.
    You and me, we all have known and learned for centuries about all the miracles and good deeds that they did for human beings.
    But I think that the stories of these Gods that traveled for centuries from one generation to the next were exaggerated by the time they reached us.
    I don’t want to offend anybody but I think All these Gods: Jesus, Krishna, Ram were just courageous intelligent humans who toiled hard for other fellow beings and were not some supreme miracle-doers from out of this world.
    And when I look at it that way (that they were mere humans who did good deeds) it’s OK for me. That somebody from our own earth, somebody made of our own Flesh and blood has done so much for their fellow beings.
    I shun the supernatural.
    I believe only in logic. (both in life as well as programming. HA HA HA!).
    Btw, The real life people, I look up to, are my parents, Newton, Hawkins, Einstein, Jagdishchandra Bose, CV Raman, Bill Gates, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Denzel Washington, Tom Hanks and Bruce Lee.
    Pretty much anybody who is admirable and intelligent and done some good works in life. After all, anybody can be a Teacher for anybody.
    We just have to have positive approach towards Life and our feet firmly on the ground.
    I hope I am not Preaching.
    Btw, This all is “MY PERSONAL” opinion. (I am tired of declaring this. Can I stop now? ) =)
    BTW, I just recalled, Do any of you by any chance, have Good Batman comics in PDF format? We could exchange some.
  • Amol
    OOPS!
    It should be "exception" instead of "excetion".
  • Amol
    ...And I think I have enough basic sense to understand that a particular theory, concept or experiment works only for a particular section of guinea pigs. NOT ALL.

    We have to derive our own customised formulae for each excetion that we find out, OFCOURSE.

    Btw, This was Only "MY" HUMBLE opinion. =)
  • Amol
    Come on man, I KNOW this is an Opinion site.

    DO I HAVE TO DECLARE ON TOP OF EVERY POST OF MINE THAT IT IS 'MY' OPINION ???
  • Daniel
    Like Ken has said this is merely your theory. You can't know for sure that no one is altruistic. You can't speak for everyone and you can't know all their reasons. For all you know there could be one or one thousand people out there who simply do good things and yet may not even feel good about it. The problem with your theory is that you work with the assumption that you know how every human in the world thinks.
  • Ken J
    Oops, meant to write "proven" not "proved" lol.
  • Ken J
    Hey Amol, I haven't been keeping up with the discussion you and Vic have been having regarding altruism, but I got a jist of what's being exchanged. I take it you are speaking of the ethical egoism? The psychological belief that nobody can be truly altruistic since even if someone does something that doesn't apparently benefit them, it benefits them mentally and therefore it is not completely altruistic?

    You cannot state it as fact, I remember studying this, forgot which famous psychologist was known for this theory. I know it's not Carl Jung or Freud... Pavlov? Butler? Watson? Hobbes? Maslow? Erickson? Adler??? Damn, I have so many names and it's been so long since I've studied it that I can't differentiate any of them from the rest...

    Anyway, I take it you're a believer of this school of thought? Nothing wrong with that, but just remember that it is a school of thought, it is a theory. In a way, it's kind of an opinion as well, it's not a definite proved concept, so people will disagree with you and you'll just have to accept that as the way it is and accept the concept that this theory might very well be wrong. I'm not saying it is wrong or right, just stating that point.
  • NoNameFace
    I do not think that i said
    "the is something wrong with being an Atheist"

    i Just wanted to know why some one would or would not be one, that is all...
    (kind of Harmless, i might add)
  • Amol
    @Vic, @Ken

    I am not a proficient writer. I can speak only in examples that life has shown to me.
    When I said “Nobody is Altruistic”, I meant this:
    Let’s say there are only four guys left in the world. And ONE LAST morsel of food on earth.
    All are hungry.
    All happen to see the morsel at the same time somewhere.
    Now two of those guys immediately pounce on the morsel and start fighting for it.
    One of the remaining two guys (the third guy) just thinks its wise not to be so selfish enough as to fight with somebody to acquire something even if it’s the last morsel of food.
    The Last guy thinks: Hey! What is this going on? I don’t like these two selfish guys are fighting on. And that poor guy is just standing there not demanding his share. Let me give him a portion of this other morsel in my pocket that I saved for this day to this poor guy.
    HERE: The fighting guys are selfish because they think that if they eat that tiny morsel they will be SATISFIED IN THEIR MIND and Body for that particular temporary moment. (which MAY latter become a mini pride-Booster that THEY were the ONLY ones to get their hands on the morsel. Exactly the type of winners that Nature NEEDS in this World of the Fittest and World of Survival)
    The third guy is selfish in a way that he FEELS SATISFACTION IN HIS MIND that he was at least not cheap like the fighting two. (which MAY become a mini pride-Booster latter)
    The fourth guy is selfish in a way because he FEELS SATISFACTION IN HIS MIND by feeding the unselfish poor third guy who was being trampled by the other dominating two. He developed a feeling of pity for the third. He felt GOOD IN HIS MIND that he followed the non-violent way and did a favor for the third guy (which MAY latter become a mini pride-Booster that he was not cheap like the fighting two and played God for the third guy)
    Each guy had the main aim of SELF-SATISFACTION / CONSOLATION of their own minds that was fulfilled in different ways for each.
    NOW imagine that: 1. the first two fighting guys are from some under developed tribe from a desert area where food is scarce. 2. The second inert guy is a rich businessman who does not have to struggle much to fulfill basic necessities. 3. Fourth guy is from some human rights organization. The story will work. And the picture becomes clearer.
    You can see that their Mind has EVOLVED to behave that way.
    Don’t we vote for a particular good candidate on a reality show on the TV just because he behaved good ? That is a sort of Self-Satisfaction for us and MAY BE a latter a mini pride-booster for us that we played God for somebody.
    Ask yourself: Of the Two guys, where One who does a favor (a good Deed) for the other, who would you rather be ? Of course you would want to be the First Guy regardless of the Second guy being the one who has an CLEAR advantage because he is at the receiving end of the good deed. That is the sort of good-deed (Altruism) which is a sort of Self-satisfactory/Self-Justifying in the primary stage and a pride-booster in the secondary stage.
    If you have watched Se7en(1995) the David Fincher/Morgan Freeman movie,
    (**SPOILER**)
    the villain in it kills a prostitute JUSTIFYING HIMSELF that he cleaned some kind of dirt off the world.
    On the other hand the Detectives, JUSTIFY THEMSELVES that if they catch/prosecute that guy they will be SELF-SATISFIED because they will have caught a murderer.
    Finally…
    According to Science the first aim of the World is : TO SURVIVE. And to do that it has to SURVIVE Physically and PSYCHOLOGICALLY both and KEEP EVOLVING TO MAINTAIN THAT IN ANY POSSIBLE WAY for the whole life-time. Each Species in the world has its own way to achieve that. The only difference is Homo Sapiens have developed significantly in the Mental Field as compared to other species. AND ALTRUISM IS JUST ONE OF THOSE WAYS FOR HUMANS.
    After all, the Mind is more powerful than the Body. Our main aim is to satisfy our Mind by commanding our Body to follow the way that the Mind orders it to follow depending on the GENETIC-MAKE UP OF THE MIND WHICH KEEPS EVOLVING. (Remember the Mind is in the Brain and Evolution decides how a particular Mind of a man will behave. I has It’s own ways of selfish self-justification.) Recalled the Morsel Story?
    CONCLUSION: So (SELF–SATISFACTION / SELF -JUSTIFICATION / PRIDE IN MODERATE AMOUNTS/ A FEEL-GOOD EFFECT) are the Keys and basic necessities for the SURVIVAL of any species WHATEVER way it acquires them. And I think, ALL these keys are non-altruistic. It has nothing to do with the good deeds we do in the material world (Previous example: the morsel in the pocket).
    Think of it in a psychological and NOT a material-world type of way.

    Yes, this May be 500 words or perhaps more ! =)
  • Daniel
    Whats wrong with being an Atheist No name face? I'm an atheist as well.It's our beliefs.
  • lol bats > shellhead lol!!1!


    Rev
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