‘Insidious: Chapter 2′ Spoilers Discussion

Published 2 years ago by , Updated September 18th, 2013 at 2:47 pm,

Insidious 2 Directed by James Wan Insidious: Chapter 2 Spoilers Discussion

While people are already chatting away in our Insidious: Chapter 2 review thread, this is the place where you can disucss James Wan’s horror movie sequel in full detail – all the plot twists, spoilers, time-travel and opinions on the ending – without have to get grief for SPOILING the movie for others.

Assume that everyone in this discussion thread has seen Insidious: Chapter 2. If you haven’t seen the film, you are definitely in the wrong place, because MAJOR SPOILERS FOLLOW!!!!

With that warning in mind, feel free to hop down to the comments and discuss Insidious 2 with other fans – and rate the movie for yourself in our poll below:

[poll id="674"]


Insidious: Chapter 2 is now in theaters. It is 105 minutes and is Rated PG-13 for intense sequences of terror and violence, and thematic elements.

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  1. Is this movie almost too part 1 to function?…

  2. OK, can someone please post a comment stating the major plot(s)?

    • Oh good more remakes at the expense of new projects woo hoo! go Hollywood

      • Remake? So now if a movie expands on the history of the characters/stories it is considered a remake?

        • SPOILERS GALORE!!!

          - We find out Josh is haunted and has been since he was a kid. His future self was also trying to rescue himself from the further – you have to watch the movie to understand this.
          - We see Josh, as a kid, and Elyse putting him to sleep (whatever the process is where he goes into the further)
          - Josh was taken into the Further at the end of the first movie, as it was assumed. He constantly tries to warn his wife by playing the piano, etc. but she ignores them as possibly from evil entities.

          The film centers on the history of one of the original ghosts from the first film, the ghostly white in black wedding dress. We find the following things:

          - She was really a man, named Parker, whose abusive mother made him wear girl clothes and wear a wig, convincing him he was a girl.
          - Elyse (who died in the first film and now lives in The Further) is contacted by Carl, who gives hints who the lady in white (that you see in promo pics) is. It’s Parker’s mother.
          - They go to a hospital that Elyse points them to and Josh’s mother recalls an incident Parker, while dying in the ICU, grabbed her son Josh to try to take his body. it is implied Parker sometime possessed Josh’s body and that was the ghost that had always possessed him. Parker was in the ICU because he tried to castrate himself, and after he encountered young Josh, he jumped to his death.
          - They are given a clue there to go to Parker’s house. There, Parker’s mother begins to haunt them and Young Parker warns two guys to leave his room or his mom will force him to kill them.
          - They hear noises behind a bookshelf, communicate with knocking to it, and eventually break the case to reveal a hidden room of 15 dead victims under sheets rotting with foul odor. They come to an old trunk where the media blamed the serial killings on “The Black Bride” who I already revealed was Parker.

          After all these revelations the film reveals more but quicker with a “teaser” attached BEFORE the credits:

          - Ty goes into The Further to save Carl and his dad, who was guide by Elyse.
          - Josh throws a demonic ghost out the window who was after his baby.
          - Ty pulls Josh and Carl out with a string attached to two tin cans.
          - Carl puts Josh and Ty in a trance so they
          - The movie, regarding this family, ends on a happy note with no hint of any problems coming their way.
          - However, the two guys that accompanied Carl go to another family to check on a new haunting and we see Elyse, as a ghost, go to the haunted girl. She hears noises, looks into a corner of a wall, and paces the words “Oh my god” before it cuts to credits.

          - IN A NUTSHELL
          - Josh has always been haunted, even in the first film.
          - Elyse acts as a guide and some ways a protector.
          - Josh’s ghost is a serial killer whose mother abused him and forced him to live like a girl.
          - The family has a happy ending and no more hauntings to them are expected.

          • I think she saw Josh’s mom. They don’t show her at the end of the Flim when they save josh. We don’t know where the mother ghost is at that time??

            • Renai is locked up by Josh, and Specs gets her out. We do see her with the other characters after Josh and Dalton come back from the dream world. She hugs him and kisses his head. Elise is smashing up the mother in the dream world, that’s where she is.

          • At the end Elyse sees what is presumed the red faced demon from the first movie (only he made the crackling noise)

            • OMG I didn’t think of that might just be true

          • At the end of the film Elyse sees the red faced demon that she thought she killed. I realized this bc when Parker(in Josh’s body) is in the piano room talking to Josh’s spirit we see the red faced demon hiding in the shadows. We also hear the clicking noise during that scene and at the end that the red faced demon made in the first movie.

            • When do you seen the demon in the piano room corner? I agree with the clicking noises and it makes sense that he comes back/isn’t fully gone, but I don’t see him in the corner of any room :S

  3. One thing I’m confused on…how did the fingerprints on Elyse’s neck NOT match Josh? Even though Parker killed her, he used Josh’s body and Josh’s hands to do it.

    • Parker killed her as a ghost. The picture was taken when Parker had just taken over Josh’s body.

  4. Lol. There’s nobody named Ty, the guy above meant daulton. And josh hasn’t always been “haunted.” If you watched the first movie you would know that the old lady took his body at the end, and the old lady turns out to be this Parker guy. I wanna know where the red demon went.

    • Ty is actually the actor that plays Dalton, the poster must have mixed it up

    • The red faced demon is at the end behind Alison. He was also in the scene where Parker is in Josh’s body talking to josh in the piano room. Red face is hiding in the corner making the clicking noise and at the end we hear the same clicking noise and see sharp nails which Red Face had.

      • I’ve re-watched that scene too many times and I do NOT see the red-faced demon in the corner at any point. I agree that Elise see’s him at the end behind Allison, but I didn’t see him at any other point throughout the movie :S

  5. Elyse dose not live in the further she even says everyone enters here when they die. red demon face is at the end same noise he made in the 1st film, we just dont see him. and is there anything after credits

    • i agree. elise doesnt live in The Futher. She stated that she has been from the ‘better place’ when she died but decided to go to the further because They asked for help. I assume that she stayed in The Further on the latter part to help the others (like allison). that would prolly be on the 3rd chapter…

      btw, you may have failed to notice but the girl on the closet that contacted Dalton from the string cans was Allison. So there surely will be an Insidious 3.

      • The girl that contacted Dalton through the string can screaming for help is actually one of the 15 girls murdered by blackveil-wearing Parker as seen on the scene were Josh is pulling sheets off decaying bodies trying to locate Parker’s mother.

  6. I thought it was fantastic!! Loved the spooky and jumpy bits, loved the fact wwe get to see elise again and I love how they mixed it with the first one -great idea! And whod have guessed that the bride was a bloke!! Genius I really enjoyed it and was not dissappointed – will definitely see it again xx

  7. I think Elyse saw the Red Demon or Her partner with the dice(forgot his name). We saw everybody but him come back.

    • We did see Carl come back, he was the one that put Dolton and the dad under so they can forget

      • No, we saw Carl AFTER he was back. We never saw him come back, as they show Josh come back gasping for air, and Dalton come back with a quick gasp and a “huhh!”

        • Thats because he came back to his body off screen. He was incapacitated upstairs.

          • Yeah I was wondering if Carl didnt back then who’s in his body and the spell being placed on Josh and Dalton to forget will not work. :( then again maybe we are supposed to assume he did come back for how would a ghost know how to put the two under the spell in the first place. We shall find out in chapter 3!!

  8. The movie was great! And I agree with the guy who said the red faced demon is at the end. It was the exact same crackling sound that it made in the first one. Although it cuts to the credits like that it was just showing that what happened to Josh’s family is about to happen to that one girls family.

  9. Loved the plot line of the movie and I loved how everything made me jump. It was really fantastic. Also young Parker was so adorable.

  10. I liked the movie but what I don’t get is…So Josh was haunted the enitre first movie correct? Because when the “He’s got your baby, he’s got your baby” scene comes and the scene cuts to the first movie when Renai looked in her baby’s room and saw the shawdowy figure and flipped, that was the real Josh banging on the door when the alarm sounded and what not after he broke in. But if that was the real Josh helping his baby by fighting the demon, that means the haunted Josh was there the whole first movie? If that is true, where did Elise come from then? Because she banished the demon in that scene but the scene was in the 1st movie when she was alive. I don’t get that. I hope someone follows me here lol. It was a great movie though, I liked how we find out “ghostly things” happening in the house revealed who made them and why.

    • Josh wasn’t haunted in the first movie. Parker entered his body at the end of the first movie when Josh and Dalton were coming back from the further. He traveled back in time, the same way be went back to when he was a child and asked where Parker’s mom’s house was at and young Josh said “let me show you.” Elise went back into the further when she heard them call for her help. She was already dead and had already passed through there. Hope this helped!

      • I still dont get the time traveling he sees his future self in the past but then the future guy sees himself in the past its confusing and I have no ideah what time travel has to do with being a ghost so if I hear things that means its my future self warning me the movie was good just like the first one until it gets to the end both movies shoot themselves in the foot at the end this movie has dissapointed me twice I might give it one more strike

    • If you listen close to Elise’s explanation of The Further in the first film, she states that there’s no sense of time in The Further; you can be at a specific place at any given time at all; this is how Josh, Elise and Carl were able to go from modern day to 2011 to the 1980′s in almost no time at all, and why all these events intertwined.

      • right. there was no sense of time. remember on the 1986 scene, little Josh pointed at the door and said ‘come, ill show you’. Back then, Elise was confused on what was that about but when she was already on the Further helping Big Josh to remember, she said ‘so that was that was about’. this was how they got the Insidious 1 & 2 intertwined.. Its clever. i like the idead on how they did it.

      • i love the movie. it scared me and had me really thinking too. it got this twisted storyline that is intertwined with the first chapter (i suggest that you watch the first movie again to understand the 2nd chapter better).

        however, there are loose ends that I cannot seem to u understand.

        1. why did Parker’s mom wanted Parker to kill Josh’s family for his living body(Josh’s body) to not die or deteriorate? Remember when his tooth fell out when he was in the comfort room? then there was a voice talking to him? Then Josh’s body was weakening and was aging too fast. at first parker didnt want to and Ithink the reason why was because he wanted to live again as a ‘BOY’ which he failed to do so when he was still living becuase of his mother wanting him tobe a girl… then on the latter part when hewas trying to kill Renai, he said that his mother was right in wanting him to kill them. But why? what’s the connection of The living body dying if he wouldnt kill?

        2. on the killings of Parker, he killled 15 women and disguised as the ‘bride in black’ making him a serial killer. But what was the reason why he killed them? I think his mom was the one asking him to.. But why?

        3. i understand that the ones in the further didnt have a sense of time, but how did little Parker’s soul showed up in the old house to help Elise? the soul was already in Josh’s body right? how could it bethat 2 souls are on 2 different timelines?

        Those arethe questions that bothers me since Ive seen the movie and nobody could answer my questions..

        • in your question why did he have to kill all those 15 women, i think, that somehow “parker” posses the young boy’s body like what he tried to do with dalton. the woman in white dress, i think she has a child (girl) that died with her. showed her how to overtake another persons body and guided her as “marilyn”, teaching her to kill for her to continue living. the name parker maybe given by the boy’s real father, she didnt want it to be bcause she want her girl back. thats why he killed 15 women, to keep him from deteriorating because he took another persons body.

      • Exactly. There are theories on time where people believe it to be “non-linear”. I personally don’t believe that, but in the Further, it is. The fact that in the Further, time is not linear explains how Josh/anyone can venture to any place/time. I loved that there were intertwining moments from different time periods and the 2 movies :)

  11. Alsooo, one other scene I kinda don’t understand is how is older josh talking to the kid Josh when he was like “I’ll show you.” and opens the door to the old woman’s house. Does the Further like allow time travel in a sense and can do help you manipulate scenes in the past and things like that?

    • I think so. Because in the first movie Josh goes to the further to find Dalton and goes into the past finding the creepy lady who kills who we can presume to be her husband and his mistress. This is my belief, not stating any facts here

    • Of course not, as Elise explained in the first movie, The Further has no Time Relevance, It is a place that is specific to a particular persons memories along with every one else in The Further Realm which intertwine with one another in their own fashion, like how Josh and Elise stopped that dude from possessing Josh’s daughter, by the way I think she also has the ‘gift’ cause other wise the scary dude wouldn’t have been able to take over her body to start with, any way, as the younger Josh was in the Realm of The Further during the time of Elise asking him questions about the ‘woman’ ghost, the older Josh was able to communicate with him in the No Time Realm of The Further, we see what is happening in Real Time, which is making people confused, when it’s fairly straight forward.

      • It is still not clear to me. If the young Josh in 1986 was in further while communicating with the older Josh(showing him Parker’s house), how can his physical body move? If you are in further, your physical body is in a comatose state.

        Overall, i just don’t get the time travel thing. How did Josh from the further open the door in 1st part when he hadnt even ventured into the Further back then?

  12. It seems that in the Further it is possible to cross the barriers of space and time. Thus, it was possible for the older Josh to ask his younger self where the old lady lived. If it was possible for Josh to exist in duality at that same moment in space time, then the same would have been possible during the old scenes that occurred in the first movie. What that means is that, in my estimation, Josh was not possessed until the final moments of the first movie. Of course, that being the case, then it would theoretically be possible for Parker and/or his mother to at some point undo the happy ending. Basically, the way the writers presented it, the Further allows for an infinite number of chances to alter the future by altering the past, since it can be done from any point in the fabric of space time. An interesting and unique take on time travel, and one that would necessitate a constant patrolling of the Further by the forces of good to prevent the forces of evil from gaining the upper hand in any particular situation, or all of them, for that matter. A pretty brilliant story mechanic, and one they didn’t bother trying to over explain, which would have been burdensome for the viewer. Nice job.

  13. What does Parker’s mother make him call himself again?

    • Parker’s mom wants Parker to be a girl and forces him to call himself marilyn (Mary-Lin)

  14. I think it’s so cool how the father tries to get the wife’s attention by playing the piano!
    Also can anyone explain the part where dalton sees the lady jump out the closet …who is that she looks like the grandma but how can that be?

    • The lady who ran out of the closet during the dalton scene was one of the victims of Parker. She was begging for help to get away. (We see her later when josh pulls the fabric from the multiple victims to find parkers mom.)
      Also just a thought, i think parkers mom is the same lady from insidious 1 when josh is in the further. That scene where the lady in white shoots the man, mistress, and old woman on the couch. She was insane and shot them all.
      Insidious 2 wasnt as scary as the first, IMO not even close, but boy it does a GREAT job of telling the story. Everything just clicked for me. And yes the ending i do believe elise sees the red demon, hence the cracking noise.

    • I think the woman is one of the fifteen people who were murdered by Parker, some people say it could be Elise which makes logical sense, or your suggestion, it being the Nan is also possible as I think she started this chain reaction of this family having these problems, I say this as she saw the Red Demon in the first movie and other ghosts at particular times, so all three could be possibilities, but it’s more than likely one of the fifteen woman as when she runs back to the closet, all of the other woman are there to take over Dalton’s body.

  15. None of you guys know how to spell “Dalton” do you?

  16. Roy is right. It was the red-faced demon! In Insidious 1, whenever that demon moved, he made a disturbing cracking sound. And the same sound was made as the camera slowly rises over Alison’s head, prior to Elise phasing the words “Oh…. my…. god….” with a horrified tone. If the signature cracking noise of that scary SoB isn’t enough, in the picture at the top of this thread, you can see something behind the curtain. You’ll notice the hair is short and somewhat spiked back, just like the hair (or lack-thereof) of the RFD.

    Sorry, James Wan. You failed at hiding it.

    • no way! i thought that was parkers mother…it had to be! why would it be the demon?

      • Why wouldn’t it be the Demon?

      • My first reason to believe Elise sees the demon at the end is because of her terrified expression. She beat Parker’s mother with a rocking horse, so I don’t feel seeing Ms. Crane come back would make Elise feel THAT scared. However, the demon that scared her so bad in the first movie, makes sense. (Plus the cracking noises at the end)
        Also, the explanation of “a demon” from the first movie overall describes it as being very powerful and essentially badass, so having it just go away after the first movie doesn’t make a lot of sense. It was a terrifying creature and made out to be a huge plot point for Insidious 1 so having it come back simply makes sense.
        Parker’s mother “dying” in the Further explains why the house decayed/disappeared in the Further which leads us to believe Parker’s mom (who is just a human spirit) is gone. She may not be, but I don’t see a human spirit outweighing the importance of the red-faced demon. Those are my main reasons as to why I believe Elise sees the RFD at the end of Insidious 2. I don’t see why you would feel “it has to be Parker’s mother”.

  17. I’m just guessing at this but maybe only a traveler can manipulate time in the further and not the dead people. We find out they guy with the dice isn’t dead so that’s y he’s able to open the door and Josh and young Elise can see it. Just a guess.

  18. Absolutely loved this movie! James Wan has done it again, i left the theater feeling jittery & satisfied. I liked that they jumped back & fourth from present to past (first film) to explain what was really taking place in some of those scary scenes.
    Glad that Elise was able to help from the Furthur & Carl was also a great addition to the team. Dalton was extremely brave going back to save his father, very ingenious using those tin cans. Specs & Tucker are absolutely hilarious…
    Oh & did anyone catch the desktop picture on their laptop? It was both Specs & Tucker with James Wan himself I believe, it was really quick but I caught it =)
    I wanna see both films again, really enjoyed it.

  19. OK so im confused on one part. Why was Parker a serial killer? Why did he kill all those women .. just because his mom made him a girl? And then in the scene where he tries to take young Josh’s body in the hospital, why would he need to if he was still alive? And yes,Josh was haunted the whole first movie too not just at the end, because in insidious 2 it revealed that he was taken over by Parker as a child. One last question, what was the significance of parkers mother in the movie? Someone please explain!!

    • If you remember the scenes where “Josh” is whispering “Get out of my head,” over an over, that’s Parker telling his mother to get out of his head. He still hears her whispering in his ear to kill.

    • Damn yu slow . He was a serial killer because his mom was too and she made him believe that he was a girl for the rest of his life . And he killed people under the alias as the bride in black. And he scared dalton so ghosts can easily go in his subconscious (explained in the first movie)

    • Because his Mum told him too I reckon, my take on The Further is that when you go there, you take with you all the memories you’ve experienced throughout your life, this for Parker means all of the torture he had as a child from his deranged mother, so in real time when Parker was all old and his Mum had probably died by this time, he is still traumatized by the events of his childhood, that is why he tried to cut his genitalia off, he probably hears his Mum in his head all the time, so from this, I can say what ever his Mum says goes, which is sad as we all feel sympathetic to Parker’s character and especially when he stated he wanted to live with the family and to have a normal life of being a Man for one and having the opportunity of his own family, but as his Mum keeps telling him to kill, he does so.

  20. Alyssa, he wasn’nt possed the whole time in the first one because how would Parker “josh” not know the song that his wife played for him?

  21. Can someone explain to me, when Tucker, one of the ghost hunters was looking at the video of Josh when he was a little kid, and then saw the older Josh in the corner. How is it possible that he saw the older Josh when he havent even went back in time until the end of the movie?

    • The same way Elise, Josh, and Carl went back to 1986. Time is man made, time doesn’t exist in the Further.

    • Because both young and old Josh were in The Further which takes place in no time, where as you the audience member are watching the events in real time only seeing young Josh saying ‘I’ll Show You’ which makes it confusing when it’s not.

  22. I was wondering about the dead women under the sheets in the ‘real world’ house. How come they were still rotting and smelling when Tucker pulled off the sheet? Had they been recently killed by Parker as a ghost? Or were they just ghosts themselves and the bodies weren’t actually there?

    • They were hidden in Parker’s house when the real Parker was alive an committed the murderous rampage of fifteen women, you see Specs revealing Parker putting on the persona of an old women while killing them which links back to his mother, then when he was old and saw/smelt young Josh, he killed him self to get back in to The Further to then possess his body.

  23. Can someone please explain why Parker lying in the hospital bed grabbed Josh when he was already alive? Also why did he murder those woman for his mother when he was already alive? Also why did Parker who was in Josh’s body tell his mother to leave? Why does he care if she is there bothering Elaine? Did he actually care about them until his mother told him he had to kill them for him to live?

    • 1. He grabs Josh as the body he has possessed has rotted away and he hasn’t had the chance to possess another ‘fresh’ victim, so when Josh comes into the room he can ‘smell’ him if you like and wanted to have his body hence the over dramatic grab, this is confirmed as the next scene explains he committed suicide to then in turn go back the The Further and to inherit Josh’s body. 2. I don’t think we are fully told why he killed the fifteen women but I can only say that his Mum forced him into it. 3. He is just sick and tired if following his mothers orders and therefore screams get out of my head, as he’s been traumatized all of his life due to his psychotic mother. 3. The most sympathetic thing to me about Parker is that we the audience already feel sympathetic towards his character that it puts the cherry on top when he explains he wanted to live with the family, this would be because he could finally have what he always wanted, a family and to be a Man, not a Female, until his Mum is still in his head telling to kill.

      • i think it a cycle. he already possessed the “parker” boy. killed 15 women to keep his body from deteriorating. that’s why his mom keeps telling him to kill to live. and when he saw a new body to take over since his body is already aged, he committed suicide and waited to get a grab of josh’s body. make sense.

  24. By Elaine (not quite sure if that the correct name) I mean Josh’s mother. I’m referring to the scene were the Grandmother or Josh’s mom goes to the bathroom and she sees a woman in a white dress in the mirror behind her. The the door closes, the Grandma open it and then instead of the ghost she saw it is her son.

    • To me, I think Elaine had the ‘gift’ to start with so she can see what most people can’t -> The Further People. When it comes to the mirror scene, my interpretation is that in the first movie, she is only seen through a mirror when we see Josh confronting her, so as the Nan sees her in the mirror, this maybe somehow shows her true form and the Nan can see her for what she is.

  25. Confused and Need Help
    Let me first say that this was a great movie. I like how they mix the first and second movie together. James Wan and Leigh Whannell are great story tellers. I understand that Parker was abused by his mother when he was a child beating him and force him to think he was a girl named Marilyn. Then he grow up becoming a serial killer called “The Dark Bride” dressing up in a black wedding dress to my knowledge killing women that reminded him of his mom. He even went as far as castrating himself which led him to the hospital and young Josh. After Parker committed suicide Why did he want Josh so badly? I know Parker tried to possess young Josh but failed because Elise and Carl made him forget his astral projection power making him unable to travel to the further. Josh (now an adult) reawaken his power to save his son Dalton from Darth Maul (the red faced demon) in the further. He succeeded in saving Dalton but fails to save himself from Parker who took over his body leaving Josh trapped in the further at the end of insidious 1. insidious 2 can someone explain is Parker’s mom a real ghost or a memory? I got lost when Josh,Carl and Elise traveled to Parker’s or his mom’s red door and found young Parker and his mom arguing? Why was young Parker there in the first place? When Elise was beating Parker’s mom with the rocking horse why did Parker feel pain and where did Parker go when his mom was defeated? Hell!! Lastly I agree with everyone who thinks that Elise saw the demon from the first film at the end because of the creaking noise!! Thank you :)

    • I dont think she actually beat hos mom. I think it was her beating his memory of her.

  26. Anybody notice the sister of Alison had the same hairstyle as young “Marilyn”, braided pigtails…. Coincidence?

    • How about Alison’s sister actually sees Elise??

  27. I get everything else but I don’t understand the scene that’s in both part 1 & 2 (When “spirit -Josh” breaks into his house and sets off the house alarm) . Can someone please explain.

    After the fat guy in the further says “he’s got your baby” to Karl, and Josh goes to beat up that demon again and save his baby . Do we see “parker-josh” coming down the stairs, & does that mean Josh was possessed the entire time in the first insidious?

    Thanks guys, this has been REALLY grinding my gears lol

    • Josh wasnt stuck in the further at that point. He was as scared as his wife

      • ????

        Okay…. but how was Josh in the further busting open the door/setting off the alarm & coming down the stairs as himself (unpossessed) to find the door opened at the same time??

        Just doesn’t make sense to me…

        • Was he (Josh) subconsciously travelling to the further in the first movie protecting his family, or was he already possessed by Parker before we thought he was at the end of the 1st movie?
          …Or is there some other explanation I’m missing?? Lol

          • How come no one in these comments understands the concept of time? It’s not that hard to understand that time is constant. If at some point in life Josh traveled into the further, like shown in the movie, and he had knocked on the door of his house to save his baby, this becomes constant. In Insidious 1, the alarm goes off and Josh goes down stairs to see the door open, which now we know was himself in the further all along. Therefore as time progressed normally for Josh in Insidious 1, he would become possessed and stuck in the further himself, having to repeat these actions because time is a constant.

            Based upon the law of time created by this movie, every Josh that exists in time will constantly go through this experience because the experience will constantly repeat.

            Think about it like this, say you went back in time to change something in your life, for example, you make sure your past self doesn’t go to jail. If you were to go back again, with this event already taking place, you could literally watch yourself go back in time and watch how you stopped yourself from going to jail, you could go back again and watch yourself watching yourself, fixing yourself…. so on and so on…. Does this help explain the time thing better?

  28. Could Carl somehow be the red faced demon?

  29. Could Carl actually be the red faced demon?

    • no