The marketing team behind NBC’s superhero drama Heroes spared no expense in getting viewers revved-up for the show’s third season, “Villains,” which promised to correct the turtle-crawl pace of season 2 by delivering a rogues gallery full of super-powered bad guys, along with more of the action-packed throwdowns that made the end of Heroes debut season worth the long journey of 22 episodes.
Well apparently NBC’s money would’ve been better spent on other prime-time fare, because the Nielsen ratings for Heroes are currently falling faster than a drunk girl in heels, with a whopping 22% of its viewership having turned away from the show as of the October 6 episode.
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But are the criticisms and complaints about how Heroes has (just barely) unfolded this season as meritorious as they seem? Or is this yet another case of “Joe Sixpack” trying to play amateur critic?
(You’d better believe we will discuss.)
I try not to editorialize too much on this site–even though it is a blog and that’s what blogs are pretty much for. Regardless, I always believe that the best opinion for the public sphere is the even-handed one–an opinion that is at least CONSIDERATE of counterpoints of view that may be out there.
However, in this rare case, in defense of one of the few shows I still truly enjoy, I must draw my daggers.
En Garde.
About a week ago I posted a heated comment after reading Screen Rant’s own Vic Holtreman’s post: Is Heroes Season 3 Awesome or Ridiculous? (BTW, whenever someone frames a question that way 9 out of 10 times they’re just trying to dress up their negative opinion to look pretty. Can’t fool me.) My tirade basically had to do with the fact that… oh hell, just read it verbatim for yourself:
Kofi Outlaw said,
October 8th, 2008This season is EXACTLY what we all wanted to see since season 1. You all claim that it was the Characters that made season 1 so special? Have you watched Season 1 recently??? MAJOR CHEESE FACTOR. (”Save the cheerleader, save the world????”) [With S1] We all were waiting for the super-powered showdown to save NYC and even that climax, while good, was a bit underwhelming.
Season 2 was a wash because it took SO long developing the characters and the story arch that we all were like “where’s the action???” That’s why only the last 3 eps of S2 were good, and why the show lost viewers
Now in S3 we have action, we have good twists and turns, good VILLAINS (Marlo from “The Wire?”) and many of you are COMPLAINING ABOUT IT???? It just goes to back up what I always say about TV, which is that the audience doesn’t know WHAT the hell it wants. Everybody is a wannabe critic who thinks they know how it could’ve been better. Write Tim Kring if you feel so strongly, then.
If you’ve “fallen off” the show, good riddance. Go watch Knight Rider while I keep enjoying this thrilling season of a show I enjoy immensely.
While I might’ve betrayed that “objectivity” I pride myself on, I stand by what I said. It is amazing to me that people can have such short memories, or sometimes fail to connect the dots between past and present to see an emerging pattern. To put it simply: Heroes “Villains” is a direct emulation of season 1, only with a much higher ante and weaving a much more intricate pattern, to be revealed (hopefully) in due time.
Ever the Zen master that he is, Vic tried to quell a Screen Rant behind-the-scenes email fight by stating that it is specific elements–convoluted time-hopping plot lines, shallow characters, bad dialogue, blink-and-you-miss-it editing–that are flushing Season 3 down the crapper. Well, if you’re shaking your head in agreement with ol’ Vic’s assertions–if you too are part of the 22% of viewers who are trying to divorce yourself from Heroes at this crucial juncture, may I remind YOU as I reminded Vic:
Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 6:29 PM
S1 was JUST LIKE THIS: Random quick snippets of story and character that slowly (SLOWLY) wove into a purposed design. [DUDE, RANDOMNESS FORMING PURPOSE] WAS THE THEME OF THE WHOLE FIRST SEASON!!! At first, if you remember, an episode was- Peter/Nathan bromance
- Claire high school angst drama
- Hiro/Ando hijinks
- Nikki gorefest
- Parkman’s cop/family snore fest
- Mohinder’s back and forth and back from India story
- Sylar mystery
- HRG/The Hatian mysteryThat was the exact formula
It irks me that the show is going back to basics, and people are now like “it’s too quick-moving, I wish it would go back to basics…”
I mean really: HAS THE WORLD GONE INSANE???? After Season 2 “Generations,” (a season which was never fully developed story-wise, BTW), don’t you think that Heroes needs to be doing a little bit of narrative catch-up? And talk about ‘judging a book by its cover’: tonight’s episode “Angels and Monsters” is only the fifth installment of a twenty-two episode season! That’s more than 3/4 of the story yet to be told!
SPOILER ALERT!!! SPOILER ALERT!!! SPOILER ALERT!!! SPOILER ALERT!!! SPOILER ALERT!!!
Why is Linderman in Nathan’s head?
Is Sylar really Peter and Nathan’s brother?
Is the Nikki Sanders/Tracy Strauss triplet storyline going to bear fruit or fall flat on its ass?
Will Peter go “Sith Lord” on everyones’ ass now that he has absorbed Sylar’s murderous “hunger?”
What kind of freak is Mohinder morphing into now that he gave himself the super-shot?
Will we ever truly care about Parkman?
Are Ando and Hiro really going to have to fight to the death, thereby ending TV’s cutest bromance?
What other sadistic villains do Tim Kring and company have waiting in the wings?
(And just try and tell me that the episode where HRG and Sylar teamed up to stop that first batch of villains wasn’t cool. Try and tell me that.)
These are all good tidbits of mystery that can potentially blow up into badass episodes–if people give them time to develop properly. Understand: you can’t have an intricate story line develop properly and have it all happen NOW! NOW! NOW! It doesn’t work like that, people. Just ask yourself: how many lingering questions did the first two episodes of “Villains” answer? Is that not the kind of mystery resolution fans had been clamoring for? Trust in the storytellers for god’s sake, they’ve earned that trust!
I’ll end this rant by saying this: while our source, Reel Comix, is quick to point out that this 22% drop does NOT include the number of DVR or online viewers who watch Heroes every week (the final figure will be calculated later), the show’s popularity IS in the steepest decline of its 2.24 season run. That basically means that more people are displeased with “Villains” than they were with “Generations.” And to me, that is all kinds of wrong.
Finally, take heed comic book fans. Tim Kring is the best thing we’ve got in our corner right now, as far as television is concerned. (Do I need to bring up unpleasant comic book TV shows of the past like Birds of Prey?) And if no one else will say it, I will say it here: Smallville is a joke. And not a funny one.So if you want to see quality comic book dramas on TV anytime in the near future, Heroes cannot flop. Here’s a tag line for you: “Save the show, save comic book TV.”
Seriously though, if you are displeased with the current direction of Heroes, be steadfast. Pay close attention to what you don’t like in each episode and send Kring and Co. an email. The makers of Heroes have stated in the past that they are exploring new terrain; that they aren’t the biggest comic book savants around; and that fan feedback is an important element of their brainstorming process. So put down the complaints and pick up a purpose and just maybe you’ll get back the Heroes you seem to remember so fondly, without throwing out a beautiful baby along with some dirty bath water.
There, I’ve said my piece. I’m cool now. I calmly await your daggers.
Source: Reel Comix
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73 Comments
Regarding the title of my previous post, yes, I was wondering if Heroes had jumped the tracks, plus I wrote it to encourage discussion based on the vibe of previous comments. No “fooling” anyone involved there.
As far as this season goes, I just watched tonight’s episode, and it’s official: I’m sick to DEATH of Hiro.
What happened with Ando will OBVIOUSLY be reversed by a quick jump back in time, and that’s one of the most infuriating things about this show. Why, just a little earlier didn’t he just time jump back to before he got clocked in the bar????? I mean, seriously, WTF? There have been multiple instances in this show where screw ups could have been fixed via a whopping 2 minute jump back in time, yet for some reason, Hiro NEVER does it. He’s not only clueless, the character is starting to border on retarded.
Ando gave the best summary of their exploits as “heroes” I’ve heard on the show: As heroes, they suck.
And as far as the formula and “we split it up so no one could get their hands on it.” Are you kidding me? It’s THAT dangerous, it exists on only two pieces of paper, and you didn’t just put a damned match to it?
And then there’s Suresh - I suppose the excuse with turning him from a goody two shoes into a friggin’ sociopath is that the serum has affected his mind, right?
Sure, the show has a cool factor, but the annoyances this season are really getting close to overriding any enjoyment I get out of watching it.
Vic
I actually whole heartedly agree with you on this one. It’s like fans are becoming haters for no real reason. Heroes is not Shakespeare. Don’t look at it to be. It’s meant to be a fun show, which it may not have been last season, but is gearing up to become this season. And, while it’s not saying much, it’s a far more intelligent show than Smallville, which is STILL on the air. So why tune out? What is it you’re unsatisfied with? Are people finding it too convoluted? Well wake up folks, comic book storylines are convoluted!
This episode “Angels and Monsters” is getting fairly low ratings on TV.com, and IMDB. And honestly, I felt it was a fantastic episode. It answered everything about Linderman, it introduced the idea that not all the Level 5 people are bad, and it gave us a real full glimpse at who the major badguy this season is! And guess what, we should have seen this one coming, ever since we saw the Old Generation’s photograph in Season 2.
The overall season seems to be focusing on the fact that the Heroes are turning into villains. And that is quite intriguing overall. The fact that we know the end of the season will show them ultimately triumphing over true evil in the end, will mean they’ll have to battle with their inner temptations to continue as villains, and abuse their powers. That’s quality writing in a good vs. evil show! It’s going to flesh out the characters in a way they’ve never been explored before in the series, and has in many ways done this so far, showing that even the best-natured characters have the capacity for evil and temptation!
I urge you to stay with the storyline, and at least see where it ends, because I think it’s completely back to form, and worthy of viewing, at least for half a season more (as this Volume ends in December, and a new one begins in January)!
You all know Ando and Hiro probably planned that right? If you were shocked and actually believe Hiro killed Ando, that’s just kind of dumb on your part. No offense.
Wow that was a huge fanboy rant. I hate the term wannabe critic. It’s like your putting critics up on this high level so far above everyone else when at the end of the day they are just a person with an opinion like everyone else. A critic has nothing special to offer that can’t except they have better grammar. Tell me how that makes their opinion more valid?
This season while still entertaining has become a bit of a joke. The twists are laughable and it’s falling down the cheese drain at an accelerated rate. Seasons one wasn’t really very cheesy I just watched it again last week on dvd and see none of this cheese you refer to. This season we get everybody with a shocking new power so is this gonna happpen every season ? We get mystery twins, Sylar is Peters brother, Parkman thinks he needs to follow a turtle, Peter is a good guy wait no a bad guy or is he a good guy, Same with Sylar, HRG works with sylar and can handle what ever he did to his daughter (Which was basically a metaphor for rape). I could go on and on, but lets stick with those.
Time travel is great for a little bit but it gets old when it happens in every other episode.
I started to get tired of Heroes last year with the pointless Peter/amnesiac
Hiro/feudal japan storylines ,
But this year its worse because they are savaging the chracters beyond repair .
didnt anybody get the clever idea that a season called Villains might be more fun if the Heroes were fighting the Villains instead of BECOMING them?
A cheap rip-off of the X-men fails after continually failing to produce original content?
Shocking.
I think when we encounter critics, if anything, it stirs imagination, originality and is the nexus for conversation where folks can talk about their different opinions.
If it weren’t for different opinions, sometimes, I’d miss facets of the issue the opinion was about until someone noted their aspect of it.
Civil discord is possible in a realm of opposite realities… or opinions, and that’s the fun of it, regardless of where it occurs.
At least in this medium, we can express ourselves quicker than we could writing to a newspaper and waiting a day or more to see if our comment made it.
Daniel, what Sylar did to Claire is a metaphor for rape? Just because she gave him some _ _ _ _ ?
Note to Heroes writers: Episodes really can’t be ALL setup and no resolve or advance.
Suresh is becoming a spider, man! He’s got gooey webs, he’s about to sprout about 4 more sets of appendages, he webs up his victims and either is already consuming them, or is storing them to be consumed. (And apparently he pumps them full of venom so they don’t even say MMM MMFFF MMMFFFF! (”Get me off this crappy pants show”)
What they promised (?) they wouldn’t do for Sylar–show him consuming mass quantities of grey matter–they’re probably going to do with Suresh: Show his slow decline into beastliness and probably sipping Maya’s spleen through a straw. At least I can say this much. It couldn’t happen to a nicer gal.
What was this Big Reveal about a founder of the Company? Was anyone else thinking it was supposed to be someone we knew? Obviously Mr. Petrelli is that guy. But who “killed” (it’s not really kill on NBC RESET BUTTON: Villians) Peter and Nathan? I sure thought it was going to be Charles, who seems to exist either outside time, or inside minds, who would be revealed.
OK I’ll keep going…
It strains credulity (more than how a random gene can produce the ability to create rifts in space) to think that Adam had this intricate plan, OR the knowledge of gathering forces at “the star wars canteena bar.”
I get a kick how Smallville weaves a comment or two into each episode…Chloe will use the phrase Man of Steel or Jimmy will say “faster than a speeding bullet.” I think tonight’s episode, Monsters & Angels, used the words monster or angels about a gazillion times.
And this constant conversation between Hiro and Ando about the definition of a hero….puh-leeeeze just use your powers, and as Kofi says, heat up the bromance (did I actually just say that?), these guys are Best Friends, eh?
Gee, could it be that Hiro stabbing Ando (which of course will be Reset somehow) is the reason Ando starts to hate his friend’s butt? That and that Hiro never listens to the voice of reason.
I watched tonights Heroes episode because Prison Break was postponed due to the MLB Playoffs…
I thought this was the best episode so far this season,,,?
Let’s get real folks Hiro is always going to be the fall Hero. He has been since day 01.
Interesting how Daphne was NOT told that Matt could read minds (his original manifestation), but that he could project things into others’ minds. That is a badass power. It seemed like Mrs. Petrelli had this kind of power, but apparently she’s just a controlling wench and no one disputes anything she says.
Chilling scene: After the recaps of Peter telling Sylar, ‘I’ll never become like you. I won’t let myself do that.’ Then soon into the episode, he’s frakkin sawing his mother’s head off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Its just a show JC,,, sheesh…
Yeah there’s some inconsistencies, big woop… My gawd let’s not loose perspective on reality…
@C. Bartowski
Of *course* Hiro planned what he did to Ando. I thought it was clear in my comment that he did it with the intent to “undo” it.
@Daniel
Yeah, I didn’t like the “amateur critic/Joe Sixpack” comment, but I thought I’d let it ride and let Kofi deal with the blowback, if any.
@790
Why make that comment to jc but not to Kofi? Kofi’s post was a lot more emotional than jc’s point by point critique of the show.
Vic
For a show on its 3rd season - it still doesn’t follow its own rules.
We still see most powers and characters used incorrectly and some of the worst dialogue on primetime TV.
Everyone’s ignoring the reasons people are getting sick of this show. Don’t make the mistake of thinking that the people still watching are all for it either - My friends and I still watch for the sake of watching but we really dislike how this show is falling apart.
Solution - make death a real threat, stop time travel, stop basing stories on potential future happenings and those seen in paintings (why is the only way to depict the future through white eyes and paint brushes?), make villains villainous. I have no interest in Claire having an attitude and being bad….borrrrinnngg.
There are no good plotthreads other than the HRG/Sylar thing and that was cut rediculously short. Of the supposedly terrible villains that broke out, how many are left? Wow that was epic…not.
I’m bored of the special effects tests and seeing Hiro’s lame attempt at comedy. I’m bored of Ali Larter being so many different people, none of which contribute to show. I’m bored of Nathan and these slight attempts to keep him interesting (scarface in the mirror, religion, linderman imagination, re-running for politics). I’m bored of Time travellers not doing the obvious. I’m bored of stupid coincidence (Hiro porting to future RIGHT when and where him and ando have a little scene - Parkman ending up in desert where where there happens to be another future painter who knows him).
Can we have a show with a non-apocalyptic future prediction storyline and no paintings? How about having villains be bad, goodguys be good and them duking it out over some grand story arc. Seeing current characters play both sides in a future that may not even happen is not that entertaining for the general audiences. Seeing just cool special effects isn’t either…oh and so neither is seeing every character having abilities now…it takes away the point of how these people are special.
The issue I have is the writers having the character’s use their powers only when it is convenient. The time travel especially is annoying, ie. Hiro was so stuck to his principles that he couldn’t go back in time 1 minute to stop Chick Flash from getting the formula? Really? And one time Peter was being shot at and apparently forgot he could turn invisible.
Other issues
-unresolved plotlines
-having Peter be too powerful where any danger he is in lacks drama
-everyone being related
-reliance on time travel as a plot device
I have other issues but these are the main ones. I suggest that Kring buddy up with Paul Dini in order to bring Heroes back to where it needs to be.
Jeff Cannata of the Totally Rad Show put it best.
Movies and TV shows essentially enter a tacit contract with the viewers.
What this means is that characters need to behave in the way that makes sense. But in heroes, what we’re seeing more and more of is that the decisions people make, usually make little to no sense.
If you were in that situation, would you act in a similar way? This show continues to completely fail in that way and this makes viewers not as entertained or as engaged in the show because of the writing.
I could list examples, but just think of each plot thread and how the characters re-act or act in situations.
@Rob
“characters need to behave in the way that makes sense.”
Absolutely. If we, the viewers, think of something the character could have done using their ability/ies, then it gets ridiculous. Yeah, they are new at this, but they LIVE with the abilities. We WATCH them once a week. And I would hope that they would PRACTICE the abilities to see what the range/limitations were (like CLAIRE).
So yeah, the formula should NOT be lost. Future Peter should NOT be dead, etc etc etc.
And for goodness sakes, PLEASE. Give us some other major arc storylines besides ‘the world is going to end’. I’m begging you.
@ Everybody
All I’m hearing is complaints. Still the only suggestions like fixing:
-unresolved plotlines
-having Peter be too powerful where any danger he is in lacks drama
-everyone being related
-reliance on time travel as a plot device
…Basically you want a show about people who DON’T HAVE POWERS. Comic books are convoluted. X-Men, for instance, has more time anamolies, time-warp relations good/evil characters and unkillable super-people than any other comic EVER. And it is STILL good, even when a particular storyline might begin to drag.
Give Heroes a chance to correct its course. Now that Papa Petrelli has been revealed as the leader of the bad boy gang sides will be chosen, we’ll know who’s good and who’s evil and the battle will begin. And, to keep the stakes high, I guarantee that people will begin to die. (Doesn’t look to good for Mya right now.) For F’s sake: Sylar’s future son got killed!!!! Peter tried to get at his mother’s brain!!!! He broke Sylar’s neck in the first 30 sec of last night!!!! Things are vicious!!!
Hey Kofi,
you didn’t point out any of the issues I addressed in my posts here or in the other two heroes 3 threads…other than the time travel thing.
Sylar’s future son is meaningless. He’s a character that doesn’t even exist in the show’s main timeline, a character we never met before and with how the show works - he’s probably a character that won’t exist anyways.
and I think we all want heroes to be a show about people with powers…I’m not sure where you got the idea that someone wants the show with people who dont have them…did someone say that?
I think what people want is a show that doesn’t have every character with powers, thus keeping some realism and some significance of the abilities - allowing them to be more meaningful.
The idea of everyone being capable of acquiring these special abilities is weak. It destroys the idea of genetics from the first season, let alone evolution.
LOL, Kofi the complaints address specific points. I want them to have powers, I just want them to use them logically. I think the writers shot themselves in the foot by making some of the characters TOO powerful in seasons 1 & 2 and are now dialing them back. Same thing with the time travel issue that is now a monkey on their back because it’s so dumb when bad events aren’t erased by a 30 second “reboot.”
Unfortunately the Pandora’s box is now open.
Another “for instance” is why couldn’t Sylar hear what HRG was saying to vortex guys? One of the first powers he picked up in season 1 was super-hearing.
You’re doing the same thing we are, but in the opposite direction. You’re not addressing the specific points that we bring up, instead you’re just complaining that we’re complaining.
Vic
Ambiguity is the point of this Season. So is that theme raised by the villain in “The Incredibles”: “If everyone is special, no one is.”
What people are asking for is a simple us vs. them setup. Clearly defined sides and then a long what, 18 episode battle??? I like how this season is shaping up: that some characters who we think have had solid, upstanding morals (Peter, Claire) are suddenly finding themselves teetering on the edge overlooking the darkness, even though they mean well. That characters who meant ill (Sylar) are finding reasons to reform and tame the beast inside them (The classic Wolverine theme). I like that a handful of characters don’t yet know what role they’ll play (Parkman, Speed Chick, Hiro) and will likely have to make some hard choices. I like the uncertainty. These are uncertain times. It’s not that EVERYONE has powers now, it’s just that those that do have emerged and started to group. You can’t have that “Gods among men” theme from S1 run forever. That is just a starting point.
As for the powers argument. Hiro can’t go back in time and change everything. That’s why the second ep this season was called “The Butterfly Effect.” Going back risks screwing things up, or bringing about that which you hoped to avoid (Adam becoming a Villain b/c Hiro meddled in the past.) Of course Sylar heard, or at least inferred what HRG was trying to do. No need to trot out super powers needlessly, Vic. And using powers “logically????” The whole point is that many of these people are not ready for the power they find themselves with; they use their powers emotionally instead of logically. It’s the danger of Molhinder’s serum: giving power to those not ready to properly wield it. In fact, it seems that there more complaints about the characters like future Peter who have mastered their powers b/c those characters are “too powerful.” Go figure.
What do I want to see happen? I want the characters to choose their sides, I want Papa Petrelli to set his evil scheme in motion; when the dust settles, I want the main characters to be standing on unexpected sides of the line and I want the serum destroyed, or at least have it end up in the hands of normal humans, who discover that a super-war is taking place in their midst, causing a pro-human, government organization to spring up, tasked with “ending the meta-human threat.” I want to see all our heroes hunted and persecuted, forcing heroes and villains alike to band together to survive.
THERE, see, that’s what I mean by a solution: tell me what you would like to happen, what kind of plotlines or story-archs would bring you back to the show.
Um, Hiro had no problem doing a “micro” timeshift about 4 times in a row in the scene where he unearthed what’s his face at the cemetery. He is obviously also going to go back and undo Ando’s death.
As to Sylar and overhearing the conversation, he was obviously interested in knowing what they were talking about. I would think that he wouldn’t even have to actively “call up” that power - just wanting to know what they were discussing and straining slightly to hear it would have allowed him to.
This is fun.
Vic
Season 3 (so far) is good and all, but the writers need to devote a little more screen time for the sub-plots in the series and have the characters make more logical, sensible decisions. Still, a fun show to watch.
But I really would like to see Hiro and Ando become enemies at some point in the show rather being hinted at in overused “future-apocalyptic-vision” cliche that’s becoming a little to rampant in the series.
I’ll tell you what I’m waiting for:
Dressed in black, bad-ass Hiro.
I’m tired of him being a dork.
Vic
You sum it up nicely in your article: the show is going back to what worked in Season 1. The only problem with this? Season One was not that great.
I’ve watched every episode of this terrible show, and your article did a nice job of summing up why I should quit along with the others. Season One was not very good. I thought the show had potential, so I stayed with it. Season Two? Terrible. The entire season was awful. I’ve tuned into Season Three to find it back into mediocrity, but still 3 seasons in and this show has never been very good.
The problems? Bad characters, lazy writing. I don’t need to waste 2 episodes a year on “this is the future that won’t happen,” and then another 5 episodes worth of storytelling focused on lame characters that only anger the viewer.
By now this show should have improved. No surprise: it hasn’t.
Maybe I missed it too, but what happened to Molly? Last I saw she was being taken care of by Mohinder and Parkman, and they aint available now…
Season 3 is lacking that “woah, did that just happen?” moment that season 1 kept throwing at us. Except for Hiro stabbing Ando, last night.
I do want to remind everybody, that Dr. Who and Star Trek:TNG were full of continuity gaffs and plotholes. We still love love those shows.
It’s just entertainment… Escapism. Don’t overthink it.
First, I’m waiting to see how things turn out. I got fed up fast with the Hiro in Japan bit, but that was when thought it was just Hiro’s own story. When it affected the main story, I felt fine with it.
Second, spot on with the plotholes and stupid mistakes, but most scifi fans should be used to it by now. I mean I’ve watched Stargate for years and wow, there’s some nonsense in there. But still enjoyed it as the characters, and actors, were worth it.
I often think that’s the thing that keeps people into a show.
Third, I love reading the strong opinions, if not rants, on here. As long as people don’t go too nuts (ahem,Dragonball) then the more passion about shows and movies the better.
Kofi, you’ve voiced all the same thoughts I’ve had over the past few weeks. I think the vast majority of this criticism is unfounded, and completely unreasonable. The gleeful negativity is totally appalling - I honestly think some people just couldn’t wait to tear the show down. I have no idea as to why this is happening, but it is very disheartening. If Heroes becomes a rating underdog, then I will still support it, but I think those who are giving up on it are missing out on something very special.
Keep up the goog fight, Kofi. I’m with you.
Heh. Is a goog fight better than a good fight? Time will tell.
I’m not “gleeful.” I’ve been a huge supporter of Heroes in the past.
Vic
I’m with Vic I was wanting this season to rock. I loved season one and I’m one of the few who liked season two aside from the writers strike hurting it I thought it was doing well. Season 3 had me all amped up and ready to go. I thought the premiere was decent , but it went down hill from there.
Hey, if I can hang in there with Smallville for 7 seasons, you can be sure I’ll be sticking with Heroes in the hope it’ll start to gel.
Vic
I haven’t enjoyed this season of Heroes at all. I didn’t enjoy the last season either. I’ve been waiting for the show to get back on track from when it derailed around the 6th episode of the first season. I’ve been extremely patient, but my patience has just about run out. No, it ran out when the guy sucked himself into his own vortex, just so Claire and HRG could dance the same dance they have already danced before. Having Sylar save Claire was stroke of convenience. I don’t expect the show to be genius, but it should at least be intelligent.
I totally disagree with the idea that Tim Kring is the best thing we have going for us and we need to support this show. That’s ridiculous. But even more ridiculous is the suggestion that we should watch Heroes and take notes of everything that doesn’t work, because, maybe just maybe, if we are lucky, Tim Kring will take our ideas into consideration. LMAO!!
That sounds like work. Work without a paycheck. No, sorry, Tim Kring makes an extremely large amount of money since he’s the creator of Heroes. He should be capable of writing an intelligent story about people who have abilities. This is his job after all, not mine.
Personally I think he should be writing for a really bad daytime soap opera. That’s what Heroes would be if you took away the special effects. Kring may have come up with the this great concept but the man clearly had no long term ideas. I’d rather see someone else give it a shot and do it better. The sooner we stop watching the this lame show, the sooner we will get a better version to take it’s place.
We are wasting our time clinging to a show that doesn’t exist. I should know I’ve been clinging since the beginning of the first season. And living in fear that we will never have another show like this is silly. And using a scare tactic as part of your argument doesn’t really help your argument. You’re wrong, another network can and will do this type of show again and hopefully better. Heroes isn’t a first and it won’t be the last. NBC already had the 4400 before Heroes, on the USA network.
Did anyone else have the same mistaken presumption as me? When we found that Vortex man was alone on a carousel, and sad about his family not trusting him–didn’t you just *know* that the following scene would be an enraged/scared Vortex Man and a rift opening up to swallow the carousel?
Vic: What’s the best thing about FutureHiroinBlackWithASword? Ando is nowhere in sight! (It’s usually together when the goofy music plays and the stupid “antics” happen.
JUST ASKIN’
How many champagne corks would pop among the fans, if NBC gave Kring the boot and replaced him with Robert Hewitt Wolfe (Deep Space Nine), or Kevin Falls (Journeyman)?
Dosnt work that way JC,,,
like it or not, Tim Kring created the show…
This season of Heroes has been greenlit for all 22 episodes so sit back and enjoy the show,,,
Lol, Kevin Falls. Yah, if you want the “heroes” to be greenpeace activists fighting the “villains” which would be like Big Oil or something like that…
Pete, unfortunately just about any of these shows lately are like soap operas. Especially the ones targetting younger viewers, they are like teen soaps… I think it’s the cheapest and easiest ways to get viewers or something. Why else would almost every show on television be like that?
http://www.tvsquad.com/2007/03/18/nbc-sued-over-heroes/
I think Stan Lee has more reason to sue.
@ the movement to (blah blah blah…) and Pete
What are “the twins” going to POSSIBLY sue for? Everything in Heroes from characters to themes to plotlines has been copied from the DC/Marvel Universe. The twins didn’t come up with jack Sugar Honey Ice Tea. Heroes is basically what it looks like when X-men is directly translated to TV in full comic book absurdity. And you both are WRONG. TV is a medium where when it works, everybody does it; when it doesn’t work, or worse, fails horribly, nobody will even touch the genre or type of show for years. Kring and Heroes is what we’ve got, like it or lump it. Cuz that Robin/Batman prequel show coming out on CW ain’t going to fill the comic book TV void, I can assure you.
IMO if anything, its a rip-off of Unbreakable.
I’m going to nip any more lawsuit talk in the bud. I won’t have this thread hijacked like the last one was.
Vic
Hey “The Movement to put Tim in Jail,,,”
We’ve all heard about the lawsuit,,, the Twins this and the Twins that…
(Its over btw)
Please take your crusade to another site …
Dear “Movement”,
Move it elsewhere, please. And no one goes to jail for civil cases. Look at O.J. Simpson, and that stemmed from a murder trial…
I would have gotten to this sooner but I’ve been away from a computer all morning.
All of “movement’s” comments have been deleted and further comments from him will go into moderation and I will determine whether to post them or not.
Sorry you had to put up with that, folks.
Vic
Kofi, I do enjoy the show, and will continue to watch. But the problems that have been addressed here are, IMHO, very valid. For me, Vic is spot on about Hiro; the man is just extremely annoying to me, yet in season 1, he is suppose to mature into a real hero, a bada–. When is this going to happen? I know, I know, just give it time (no pun intended).
I’ve really picked apart many scenes and issues with the first 4 episodes in the last few heroes threads.
Which is why I’m happy to say, episode 5 was much more enjoyable then the priors - they introduced new villains - but I wish they were developed earlier or mentioned as part of the breakouts from the Company prison.
Vortex dude was pretty cool, too bad he’s gone
Vortex dude will be back as surely as Suresh’s new business cards say “Your friendly neighborhood Man Spider”
I agree with most of the complaints. However I love Hiro and would hate to see him change. He’s really fun to watch and pretty much the only comic relief.
I don’t mind some comic relief, but the way they wrote Hiro makes him more Jar-Jar Binks than an X-Man-like character. I figured he would have matured a little after his father died.
The last episode was a lot better. I thought the puppetmaster was much more engaging than the previous villians. The sequences of Hiro getting repeatedly whacked with a shovel was hilarious. It really showed how his time jumping can be counteracted in a humorous way. I agree that the relationship factor from season 1 has been lost. It made everyone seem more believable. I think after this season, they could do more small scale stories devoted to individual characters in situations that aren’t always world threatening. This season will probably develop into a big brawl, so there is little chance for those types of stories until in the future. I agree with Suresh being absent as the moral conscience negatively affecting the storylines. I still think that Sylar only regained his telekinetic power. It’s been the only one he’s used aside from Claire’s healing ability.
It seems people are chiming in from all walks of life on how bad the show actually is..
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20235213,00.html?cnn=yes
I have to say… quitting on Heroes, has to be one of the best things I’ve done in a long time…
Lol Ergo,,,
Yeah it was easy for me too,,,
When the show gets that bad, eh its no prb to put it down like a wounded beast…
the indian dude turning into sum kind of mutant spider is ridiculous. as for killing off adam monroe….
This might seem nitpicky, or like something that no one else cares about, but since everyone else is leaving their opinions, I figured: why not? Someone stated earlier that we should write Tim Kring about improvements to the show. I’m all down for this because I’d planned to do that anyway. Here’s my beef: As a serious fan who has a little problem with the convoluted nature the show has taken on, nothing disappoints me more that the lack of diversity in women currently on the show. I’m an African-American young woman, and one of the things that initially drew me to the show (besides it’s all-around awesomeness) was its VAST diversity of people. Anybody could watch it and see a bit of “Hero” reflected in itself (I know that sounded cliche and cheese-tastic, but it’s true!).
Now, as far as the men are concerned, the diversity is still there: Mohinder, Hiro, the black guy who can manipulate fear, the African apocalyptic painter, the Italian Petrelli family…even Vortex Guy was what I’d call “Ethnically ambiguous.” But if this show was a representation of “ordinary people,” then that definition as it applies to women (in THIS season)requires you to be Caucasian and blond: Claire, Claire’s real and adopted moms, Elle, The Flash Girl, the Niki Combo…the ONLY woman of color left on the show is Maya, and we haven’t seen very much of her.
It wasn’t always this way… I remember Simone (I think that was her name; Issac’s Girlfriend), but she was killed off so fast, as you can see, I can barely remember her name. Then can SOMEBODY PLEASE TELL ME WHAT HAPPENED TO MONICA?! She had super bad-assed power! She can watch something and then just know how to do it immediately? You can’t tell me that’s not bad-assed…especially when she pulled that wrestling move on those dudes holding up the restaurant way back when. I LOVED her, and it was as if her character just evaporated into thin air! There’s been no mention of what even happened to her…season 3 just began like she was never there. I have to say, as a black woman watching the show, that was REALLY disheartening. I haven’t stopped watching because I truly love the show and believe that there’s nothing else on tv like it, but is it too much to ask for some more women on the show who don’t look like Barbie? I’ll be writing Kring about it…
Ooops…I meant, “…anybody could watch it and see a bit of “Hero” reflected in THEMSELVES.” LOL
I’m with you, Kofi. I just wrote about this in my blog, and used you for inspiration.
This is my first time watching this show - I tried a couple times last season and lost interest, and the only reason I started this time is because Brea Grant is an acquaintance of mine (or was three years ago), and I was curious to see her as an actress.
But I love watching heroes turn into villains. Everyone who said “How about we have good guys and bad guys and watch them fight?” has no clue how to tell a story. Is that less predictable than “Hiro teleports back to right before he gets punched out in the bar …”? (Congrats … you hit the nail on the head there … aren’t you so proud?)
No, I want to watch these guys create their own destinies in the most ordinary way possible - as petulant and arrogant human beings who have no concept of just how much hubris their power has given them.
I’m scheduled to be a Nielson reviewer sometime soon, and I’m with this show until the end.
I like watching characters not act completely out of character. Which is what makes this season a disappointment. People do radically change to the degrees that they have in heroes.
@MizzCash
I never thought about that but on the most part, you’re right. The only mutated females this season who are not blond are Mrs. Petrelli and Maya, who lost her powers to father Petrelli. I think the girl who could do what she saw was killed in a fire, but I didn’t have my gensing today so I might be mistaken.
I think they should introduce other female mutants who are of different races, like the men.
>>”That basically means that more people
>>are displeased with “Villains” than they
>>were with “Generations.” And to me,
>>that is all kinds of wrong.”
That is just a completely incorrect statement. I know many people who were extremely displeased with season 2, but decided to give season 3 a shot before quitting the shot. Many people are willing to forgive one bad season, but not two in a row.
Meh I enjoyed seasons 2 more than season 3. Season 2 made sense the characters made sense the plot made sense and it was very story and character driven. This season is ridiculous with all the side switching and acting out of character moments. Season one was great season 2 was pretty good and season three is terrible.
@John “Kahless” Taylor
Thank you so much for your agreement!
As for Monica, I could have sworn at the end of season 2, the last we saw of her was with the little boy, Micah (Niki’s son…by the way, where is HE?!) and they watched outside in horror while the building burned that had Niki inside it. I THINK. That’s the last time I remember seeing her.
It’s kinda like Spider-Pig in the Simpson’s Movie. What ever happened to that little pink guy?
It’s because a good story is a good story, and the story itself will draw people to watch it. Things logically will add up, and if the writing is truly good, and if there are really things of value to see within the story it will earn a dedicated following. But if the story isn’t done well, and if it’s not well written, and the job has not been done correctly then people will be lost, and no longer want to see the story.
If you read Story and Stucture by Laurence Perrine he goes over fiction, and story writing and the study of it. He talks about the things that writers should know when writing a story. He talks about it’s okay to begin a story with a coincidence or with chance, and that all the ready or watcher in this case requires is a logical progression from the beginning of the story. But if the story ends on coincidence and ends in chance it’s far more likely to lose the reader, and for the reader to no longer believe in the story. They question and say “He would have never done that.” That’s not consistent with that person’s character. So instead of being able to completely believe in the story the watcher is filled with doubt and an inability to take the story seriously because it was not written well.
People that watch shows don’t know what makes a good story, or why one story is better then another, but for some reason just like a well written song, there is something about a good story that resonates on the inside and makes them want to keep watching. So don’t blame the watcher’s there honestly is just something about this season and some events that are happening that seem like this stories been tampered with. That’s it’s not real. Certain characters that are not plausible and believable. Character’s who used to be believable but now because of choices the writers have made the characters no longer seem real. Seem like themselves. They are doing things, and acting in ways that are not consistant with the characters from the original season. We find ourselves saying things like “He would of never done that” Every good person doesn’t become evil. In fact the way Peter was it doesn’t even seem plausible that his character or Clairs for that matter had the possible of even becoming evil. Which is what made us want to watch the first season so much. What to see how these good people overcame their problems. Then Sylar was an amazing villian in the first, a Villian you could seriously respect. and when he did what he did they were all consistent with who he was. So many characters in this show are doing thing that are not consistent with who we knew and know them to be. That’s what’s destroying this show, that’s what’s causing people to say I don’t need to follow this anymore. Because I no longer care, or believe in the characters, they’re doing things that I know a person like that wouldn’t do. Good fiction is suppose to reveal truths. It’s suppose to show us things we wouldn’t be able to know otherwise. And these current episodes are very empty. They are like candy, and are escape literature, having little to no substance whereas the first season was full of it. Full of discovery, and the writers of this story seem to have lost their way.
I will say there are flashes of brilliance. This last week’s episode was pretty good, Claire helping the other electric girl . They just need to be consistant and protect their characters, you can’t change every single character that was good to evil, and then try to change an evil character to good and expect for people to be able to believe that. Maybe if they decided to change one character that would of been nice, but they decided to take most of the characters and explore their dark side. I do think there is hope though and I will continue watching to see what happens.
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