While writing my review of The Dark Knight Rises, I found myself doing a lot of self-reflection in regards to why I felt less enthused by Christopher Nolan’s Batman trilogy finale than I did about the previous installment, The Dark Knight. The performances in The Dark Knight Rises were excellent; it was a more visually sophisticated film, and the action set pieces were bigger and more frequent than ever before. The epic conclusion to the film left a lump in many throats, and by all accounts the movie should’ve been the most rousing and exciting chapter in the trilogy (no doubt some will say that it is).
My issue with TDKR has since come into focus as I’ve had further time to reflect: It’s the story that screenwriters Chris Nolan, Jonathan Nolan and David S. Goyer chose to tell. While the story of The Dark Knight Rises is interesting and engaging in its own right, the issue is: it contradicts the thematic points of The Dark Knight.
[WARNING - TDK & TDKR SPOILERS FOLLOW!!!]
I have always been a fan of the Nolan Bat-films, but what truly blew me away about TDK was the boldness of the climax (that last half-hour of the film some (mistakenly) believe to be irrelevant), which posits the theory that sometimes, a noble lie (that inspires hope) is more important than the truth in its ugly detail: “Sometimes truth isn’t good enough – sometimes, people deserve to have their faith rewarded.”
Batman stops the Joker’s rampage, sure, but the real battle – establishing Harvey Dent as the “proper” symbol of hope and justice in Gotham City – is ultimately won by The Joker, who pushes the maimed and scarred lawman to forsake his morals in a murderous quest of vengeance. With all the good they’ve done about to slip through their fingers, Batman and Gordon decide on a lie – that Batman committed the Two-Face murders – in order to protect the fragile hope that Gotham is holding onto. On a personal level, Alfred burns the break-up letter the deceased Rachel Dawes left for Bruce Wayne, so that Bruce has the hope he needs to continue on as Batman.
That theme is quite profound; it’s something that can be applied to real-world politics, our notion of history (the “facts” vs. the established mythology), and even notions of faith and religious belief (if you’re so inclined to open that can of worms). As a (quasi-)comic book movie, TDK is even more profound: the heroes don’t “win,” per se, so they craft victory out of a lie. Whether you agree with the theory or not, it’s undeniable that The Dark Knight serves up food for thought that can be mulled over and debated in a way that few other films in the genre can.
But along comes The Dark Knight Rises, which totally contradicts that deep and unorthodox idea that Nolan and Co. previously put forth.
In TDKR, we find Bruce Wayne and Commissioner Gordon eight years later, being crushed under the weight of the lie they created. That so-called “noble sacrifice” on their part provides the illusion of prosperity and progress for Gotham, until (in a development that is both wonderfully literal and figurative) the ugliness that Gordon and Batman tried to bury literally explodes out of the bowels of Gotham’s sewers up to the surface, as Bane appears on the scene and forces the Commissioner and Bats to reconcile with the fact that their lie was only a superficial accomplishment. In the case of Bruce Wayne/Batman, Bane’s reign of terror forces our hero to suffer through a painful and perilous journey to truly become the symbol of hope and justice he wanted to be in the first place (i.e., what he sought to become in Batman Begins).
While this arc works well in making The Dark Knight Rises an epic and resonant tale, it also leaves The Dark Knight diminished in terms of its aforementioned uniqueness and profundity. Looking back from the ending of TDKR, TDK is transformed into a story about all the ways in which Batman and Gordon screw up – from who they trusted (bad cops), to how they dealt with The Joker (ignored him at first) and how they resolved the issue of Two-Face (a lie that cost them their spirits). The Dark Knight basically said “Sometimes a lie that inspires is better than a truth that defeats,” while The Dark Knight Rises basically says, “Hope and inspiration cannot be falsely earned, they have to be fought for through blood, sweat, tears and sacrifice.” It’s not every day that a movie uses a sequel to contradict the thematic conclusions of its predecessor.
[Of course, it's only fair that I act as my own Devil's advocate: there is a scene in The Dark Knight Rises where Bane is sitting with Bruce Wayne in the cell where he's imprisoned him. As Bane explains Bruce's situation, he makes the point that the prison's greatest weapon is the false hope it continuously inspires, via the sun-lit opening at the top of the pit. The message is that hope - in the right context - can become the most deadly poison of all. Interesting point, but one that TDKR doesn't fully and firmly connect to the events of TDK, in my opinion.]
Do you agree that The Dark Knight Rises contradicts The Dark Knight? Or do the chapters of Nolan’s Batman Trilogy all fit together perfectly (narratively, thematically) in your view? Let us know in the comments.
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personally i agree that the three films are in acts but in some ways they are also designed considerably different. 1. “batman begins” – horror 2. “dk” – crime fiction 3. “dkr” – war film. to me the problem with dkr is that it has “no” suspense in the way that the other films tended to have. “bb” i think more because of it’s being a new position to us as an audience and “dk” because of the rules being very clearly broken by having such an interesting antagonist such as the joker. honestly i like to think of dk as being more a michael mann film (HEAT PART II) than a nolan one. what i seriously missed with this film and let me say first and foremost i did think it was impressive still, is that i never felt any kind of peril with gotham and it’s circumstance. to me you knew they were going to be saved where with “dk” honestly i felt much more invested in the common man situation. what i’m bothered by with this film is that in a way both the joker and bane are theoretically behaving as anarchists. and yet in the end bane is just a tool for the league of shadows (kind of saw that one coming). there was no surprises for me with this film. NONE!! s***, i saw this plot the minute that it was made clear that this was supposed to seen as a trilogy. i also think that nolan made a very big mistake with embracing more day-time action. with dk because there was such a menacing position with the jokers agenda increasing and increasing you as a viewer found yourself not feeling the affect. but with this? i just felt after the isolation actions by bane, that it just wasn’t very easy to be invested. having characters speak of being afraid is not the same as feeling their fear. and yeah, i do think that in some ways this recent film took something away from the power of the message of dk… but i just think nolan went for epic over true substance more with this film. and in my opinion he also really didn’t take many risks with skewing the form as he did with dk and batman begins.
No it doesn’t contradict itself that much. (personal opinion: i think it made perfect sense during the whole trilogy) i e, Batman and Gordon being eaten up by the lie that gives hope, Gordon is eaten up by it because he lied that the real hero was Batman and not Harvey Dent, and cause of lie in result he lost his family to his job. “Batman was always the hero “..he’s the hero Gotham deserves, but not the one it needs right now.. and so we’ll hunt him, because he can take it. Because he’s not a hero. He’s a silent guardian, a watchful protector.. a dark knight.”
Therefore, Gotham PD was going to hunt Batman no matter what Gordon could’ve done they were going to get him for the death of Harvey Dent, so Bruce Wayne wasn’t went into hiding and felt like he wasn’t needed anymore by his still that he protected. And he did just lose the love of his life that too can make a man go mad. I think that’s the reason why that’s the exception to the argument of why it doesn’t contradict it’s self.
ANNNDD in The Dark Knight, The Joker broke Dent and won in the victory “everyone” can be turned to unstable and chaotic. It was disappointing to Batman to see that happen.
Bane, tied up whole thing from Batman Begins with the league of shadows, and i personally didn’t see Marion being Ra’s Al Ghul’s daughter. Bane was very impulsive and just wanted to destroy, destroy, destroy. but i didn’t like that he did it for a girl so SHE could get revenge for her father’s death. that was the only flaw for The Dark Knight Rises.
The whole trilogy i loved. was well scripted.
Very, VERY well said. I completely agree with you and the author. It will take time, but I’m sure I’ll eventually be able to enjoy it for what it is. As a Batman Begins sequel, it really works, but the real problem for it is the existence of TDK and the extremes that movie took us to.
I don’t think it contradicts because I don’t think the theme you are speaking of in TDK is asserted. I think it is posited. That is why it is at the end of the film. You see this build up of mistakes and they finally deal with them at the end, but it is too late for Dent. They (Gordan and Bman) think they can (as ALfred says in TDKR) “outsmart the truth,” so they craft a lie. The asserted theme is that Gotham is redeemable (Boat scene), but flawed (SWAT scene). Knowing that, we see how it is best redeemed, through noble lie (nod to Plato) or ugly truth.
The film doesn’t say false hope is better than dashed dreams. It asks whether false hopes are better than dashed dreams. Audiences had a lot of time to debate the question. Now TDKR is here to show us the in-world answer that- “No, it is not.”
So I’m not going to read through six pages of comments. I’m a lazy jerk, I guess. Lots of you have made smart points, I hope I’m not repeating anyone. TDK was good in part because both central characters fail. Joker fails by Dent’s false martyrdom obscuring his corruption of Dent. Batman fails because beating Joker means taking the rap, and destroying his image of a noble rule-bound vigilante. He doesn’t break his one rule of not killing, but he may have well as. OmegaLazarus is right pointing out the TDK posits this, and lets TDKR test it.
“the theory that sometimes, a noble lie (that inspires hope) is more important than the truth in its ugly detail”
Noble Lie= Gotham City believes Batman sacrificed his life to save people from nuclear bomb/ Batman’s ID is still a secrete to the public/ Batman is more than a man, he now is a legend/ He is a hero and he wants us to know that there is a “Batman” in all of us!
Ugly truth= Bruce Wayne fixed the auto-pilot to escape into the ocean before the explosion/ Bruce Wayne is “dead” and lives a new life with his EX-CONVICT girlfriend, Selina, in Europe. Alfred and Bruce don’t say Hello but they don’t say Goodbye onscreen. It’s mutually an ambivilant momment.
So that theme is still there, along with its own main theme.
dumb point, reading this was a waste of time
I agree.
Thanks for clicking on it and reading it – Page views are ALWAYS appreciated! Have a nice life!
Hi Kofi, love the site. Here’s my take on it.
Different situations call for different actions. That, I think, is why it’s okay for TDKR to convey a “contradicting” message. TDK sort of captures this sentiment in Gordon’s final speech too, when he says Batman is the hero that Gotham deserves, but “not the one that it needs right now”. Also, TDKR isn’t necessarily saying Gordon and Wayne were wrong to do what they did when they lied about Dent. Bane intended to use the truth about Two-Face to create civil unrest, and he succeeded at that, but the fact remains that Gordon and the GCPD were able to do a lot of good because of the decision to reward Gotham for their faith. Their actions are no less selfless or heroic given the state of affairs in TDKR.
Allow me to elaborate here. In TDKR, it’s 8 years later, and the public is being given a distorted version of the truth. Gordon and Wayne may have lied, but it was for the greater good. Bane’s use of the truth is not. What Bane is saying about Dent, Batman, and Gordon is true, but he’s taking it all out of context and lumping it in with another major crises (think financial crises) in order to manipulate the masses. In this case, Gotham doesn’t need a hero like Harvey Dent, they need a Batman, because the police force and even the federal government have been rendered helpless in the situation that Bane has created. Suppose someone like Bane had never come along to out Gordon, then the Harvey Dent act would have continued to do it’s job. Unless Gordon came forward with the truth, but who’s to say that Gordon would have ever come forward? We see him flirting with the idea of revealing the truth to the public, but we’ll never know if he would have actually done it, and if he kept it a secret, nobody other than Bruce Wayne would have known… except for Alfred and Detective Ramirez from TDK.
I think it’s safe to say that neither Bruce nor Alfred would have come forward with the truth. As for Detective Ramirez, she is responsible for aiding the kidnapping of two powerful political figures, and the attempted murder of both of them, one who actually did die. It’s not much of a stretch to assume that she’d keep quiet, considering the amount of good that the Harvey Dent act was doing for the city. And that’s what it all comes down to. The Dent Act wasn’t a bad thing, and TDKR doesn’t imply that it is. Nolan has talked about the fact that a situation has arisen, that has forced Batman to truly fix the problem instead of “peppering over the cracks”, but he never makes one feel as though Gordon or Batman’s decision was flat out wrong. It was Bane and Talia. TDKR does do something pretty good though, and that is, it creates a situation that shows Batman really is needed for Gotham, and not as a figure for the public to despise. It gives closure to what Bruce Wayne wanted to do at the beginning of his journey, and it pays service to the fans who want to see Batman be given his due.
To answer the OP’s question of is the thematic theme of what is righteous in TDKR and TDK contradict each other in a sense, yes. The insinuation that this contradiction is a bad thing and dampers the script of the trilogy as a whole I would have to completely disagree with and the post I am replying to explains that beautifully.
I don’t think it contradicts, I think it shows that Batman and Gordan made a mistake. A big one. It comes back to bite them, and now they have to fix it. Everyone makes mistakes, no one is perfect. Even heroes. And I think that is something you can take away from it.
Yes, it does contradict the theme of TDK. But then again, haven’t we ALL done or believed in something in our youth, only contradict ourselves years later when we’ve matured? During the time between films, both Gordon and Bruce had time to reflect on the choice they made and realize what they had done. Now eight years older and wiser, they realize the mistake they made and seek to redeem both themselves, as well as the city. Which is really the main theme of TDKR: redemption, and restoration of honor to a world that has lived under the shroud of a lie. Just as the Dark Knight rises, so must Gotham rise by breaking free of the deception that has shackled them into a false contentment.
That wasnt a theme for the trilogy, it was but an idea presented, not developed, in the second movie. That contradicted some of the full integrity that was pursued on the first. It is a progression. You could say one theme in the trilogy is the value of truth, the second just helps to that. Lies were the weapon of the joker, the joker had certain victories throughout, even to the end. The third apparently discusses further and explores the ramifications of that. The second never explored consequences, just opened a question, the third goes more into what that means. I think that is valid. I don-t think it is contradictory at all. And I am someone who doesnt think these movies are high art, or someone who hated the academy for not nominating it, I just don-t see what you are proposing..
As I sit here and think about the trilogy and the transformation of the Dark Knight, the transitions were perfect in the aspect that Bruce Wayne must become the symbol of hope. That has been the most challenging part in all three movies for him. This was exactly what Christopher Nolan wanted for the trilogy. You have to understand that the story of the caped crusader has always been about Bruce’s transformation into Batman. He contends with what every super-hero does. He shows that there is really only one way to be morally good in order to justify his obligations. While the city and its people lose hope, and all seems lost, the directors make everything flow together. The metamorphic transformation from Bruce Wayne the Batman, to Bruce Wayne the Dark Knight. Brilliant written script and they cant be done!
I don’t think that it is a contradiction, the reason why is because I feel like the movie “learned” as Batman and Gordon learned that the philosophy “Sometimes a lie that inspires is better than a truth that defeats” is wrong, and learned that the philosophy “Hope and inspiration cannot be falsely earned, they have to be fought for through blood, sweat, tears and sacrifice.” is closer to being right. I didn’t really think about this concept about the movie, but it gives me a greater appreciation for it, due to the fact that it made me feel like I was Batman, or Gordon, and as I’m watching this movie and the thematic elements of it, the thematic elements mature as the characters mature, from a flawed perspective, to a more realistic perspective. Also, without the first philosophy you wouldn’t have TDKR as we know it, because that first philosophy is what created the deceptive peace that is at the beginning of the movie, what causes Batman to hang up his cape and cowl until Catwoman and Bane come around. I think it was a necessary contradiction, in the way that as any one of us grows up they start contradicting their previous views as they learn more about what they are talking about, if my rant makes any sense at all, sorry it’s kinda all over the place.
personally i think that DK and TDKR do contradict each other but in a good way. we all know that in DK Gordon and Batman set up a lie to give the people of Gotham city hope to believe in some one they can look up to like the white knight/Harvey Dent. And given the status of the crime filled city in the beginning of DK (corrupt cops, the mob, the joker, etc.) the people need that symbol to overcome the nature of the city. But eight years later, that lie catches up to Batman and Gordon. they realize that living with a lie is more painful than swallowing a truth that hurts and will eventually come to light and cause more damage to the people that lie is meant to protect. which it does in TDKR. And this gives Gordon and Batman the opportunity to make up for their mistakes and to grow as characters should by the end of a story.
I think you’re thinking into things way too much
I think contradict is a much too strong to use as if one film invalidates the other.
I thought it made sense since it’s an evolution of the human condition, an evolution of Batman as a real person. Everything in Nolan’s Batman is measured to be as realistic as possible, a believable fiction (don’t be too literal), the difference between a SWAT team that clears a building using actual SWAT tactics and one that sends one guy on his own to check out a weird noise (REC 2…at which point I simply stopped watching).
The very real exposition of a broken body (no more cartilage in the knees etc.) and the ultimate conclusion of seeking a life beyond Batman.
The same thing applies to the themes in this article, motivations and central philosophies are never lifelong or ‘bulletproof’. They change, they adapt and they mold the course of action throughout an entire life.
I don’t feel like the films contradict each other. I was more inclined to think about how time changes things, including what was once thought to be the right decision. It was the correct decision when they made it, but as the city and the people in it began to change, the secret turned to poison. We have to constantly re-evaluate our decisions and adapt to new situations.
Contradiction is not the right word. What TDK did was show how a lie can sometimes provide more hope than the truth. But eight years later, TDKR shows that the same lies can eat at you and destroy you. The truth will set something free. In this case, the truth set Bane free–into the streets of Gotham. It was the same lie that Batman and Gordon kept that provided him with a psychological weapon (in addition to his bomb, mind you) to enslave the people of Gotham through providing them “freedom” from those who had been lying to them.
Kofi, you said that the theme of TDK is that ”Sometimes a lie that inspires is better than a truth that defeats,” and TDKR said that, ‘Hope and inspiration cannot be falsely earned, they have to be fought for through blood, sweat, tears and sacrifice.” I COMPLETELY AGREE!!! But TDK’s moral stance proves true in the short run while in the long run, it is TDKR’s moral stance that is the absolute and lasting truth.
I think it contradicts it, and what you point out is a great and astute observation. To clarify though, I don’t think the contradiction is a bad thing; rather, I think it was completely intentional
I have to disagree. The lie at the end of the Dark Knight did help Gotham. The lie put more criminals behind bars and led to the creation of a more positive police force in Gotham City. As you will notice there are far more heroic characters in TDKR than there are in the first two films. However it makes perfect sense that the burden of such a great lie that is only carried by two people is overwhelming, no matter how much good it did. Despite the fact the lie is improving Gotham, Gordon has to deal with idolizing a man who tried to kill his son and Bruce has to put this symbol aside and lose what he felt was his purpose in life. Also I felt it fitting that the great downfall of Gotham was from Bane exploiting the lie and throwing Gotham into chaos. Realistically no matter how powerful the lie was, the truth can’t be hidden forever and at the end Batman and Gordon do have to deal with the inevitable consequences of deception. So its a mixed bag. The lie does save Gotham for a while but eventually the truth has to be faced.
TDKR & TDK do conflict when it comes to their conclusions however I believe this is not wrong but rather I feel it was Christopher Nolan, his brother, & Goyer showing their beliefs that true hope and change can not be built on a lie because in the long run the lie is not a solid foundation.
Why people might find this conflicting I believe is that they are okay with a lie that helps however Nolan & Co. don’t and so couldn’t leave the film that way. So to me it is not a conflict between TDKR & TDK but rather the audience’s beliefs vs. Nolan & Co.’s beliefs.
maybe not contradicts but its like they learn from their mistakes
i agree that it most definitely contradicts the overlying message from TDK, and i also agree with what seems to be general consensus of those disappointed with the film that it most definitely wasn’t the masterpiece that it could have been from absolute start to absolute end, but i only say that in the context of it not being a masterpiece from the beginning of TDKR until the minutes leading up to the final “Act” of the movie or more simply, the movie’s “3rd” and “Final Act”; the conclusion of TDKR was so epic that it made up for every “miss” that the movie made from the beginning of “Act 1″ leading into the end of “Act 2″. i’ve never quite had the chills that i had watching the ending of a trilogy or movie series that i had while watching the finale of TDKR. i am okay with every piece of TDKR simply because of the ending… Nolan tied everything together so well that the TDKR is easily exactly what it should be – an EPIC conclusion (emphasis the conclusion piece again) to the greatest superhero trilogy (or even overall movie trilogy) of all time. in my opinion, there really isn’t anything more to be said about it…
I don’t see a contradiction. TDK saw Batman & Gordon save the image of Dent, as a sign of hope for Gotham. But it was a false hope as it destroyed both of them, and hope only lasts so long and Dent’s image was starting to be corrupted from within. The arrival of Bane showed that Gotham needed Batman more and he proved to be a bigger symbol of hope.
I think the two themes do contradict but not in a bad way. That is why the 8 years is important to the plot. The lie itself is actually a driving mechanism for most of the characters in the beginning of the film. Batman didn’t have enough faith in the people to trust them with the truth, and decisions following led to his absence. And evil prevails in the absence of good men. Bane’s rise to power is contributed to Batman’s absence. The movie sums this concept up nicely with Bane’s delivered line “Victory has defeated you.”
Here’s the deal. I don’t care if they contradict. I don’t believe they are successfully linked in the first place. Bruce never showed any real love to his lady blown up in part 2. He easily showed more love to Catwoman in part 3. I don’t for a minute believe he would sit and pine away 8 years of his life for her especially when he loves being Batman so much. Batman was the only true love in his life. I don’t care if he had to hide out, he would have still tried to solve crime and put bad guys away behind the scenes by providing intelligence (at a minimum).
If we are to believe he essentially retired at the end of TDK I must say he was in pretty good shape at that time. How would he in 8 years of inactivity turn into the wimpy broken person shown at the beginning of TDKR?
Its just a horrible segway between movies to have hung up your cape for 8 years due to the loss of this girl. I simply don’t believe it would happen. Its not the Batman I know or have followed for years. Batman is used to loss that’s what gave him strength to stand up in the first place.
Additionally, hooking up with Talia so quick was just as unbelievable. A move like that almost makes me think he became the hollow playboy he portrayed in TDK. That hollow playboy is not the Batman I know.
Catwoman, now that was believable. They had a lot in common. There was passion.
Once you accept all this junk writing as something that actually happened in Batman’s world then and only then could you start to believe in any of the other goofiness in the movie. It almost seems rushed like Favreau making Iron Man 2.
Frankly when I go to see Batman I now expect the quality of TDK. This movie lacked that by far. There was really no chance to guess that someone might not be who they say… due to the character blurting it out before you started to even think about it. TDK challenged us to think and get involved as an audience member. This was like… slow story, more slow story, more slowness, bad guy, half hearted coming out of retirement, beat up, locked away, find the new you, fight again, ta da this is who i really am, is the hero dead or not, don’t know might be a dream. Huh??? Huh???
It might be fine if you read every jit and tottle from the comics to engage you but there are plenty of comics guys on here that are saying that much made no sense and plenty of others trying to put 1 and 2 together to make 4. In the end you can make of it what you want, as many are, but to me it was poorly written and way below the caliber of TDK. To me whether it contradicts or not is meaningless unless you think it was great writing to start with.
Shooting in New York was also a mistake. This ain’t Ghostbusters.
Jon…
I can guarantee you that I added 2 + 2 and got 4. What happened DID make sense.
If you choose not to believe such and did not like the film, in large part, because of that belief, well…I suppose you have that right.
I think you are looking at it the wrong way. I think TDKR’s theme fits together nicely with TDK’s theme. TDK does say “Sometimes a lie that inspires is better than a truth that defeats,” and TDKR says “Hope and inspiration cannot be falsely earned, they have to be fought for through blood, sweat, tears and sacrifice,” as you said. I think that Nolan was showing that because Gordan and Batman didn’t earn the inspiration they tried to give people, they had to give their own blood, sweat, tears and sacrifice. I personally love that the movies show that because Gordan and Batman lie to cover up their mistakes, all they end up doing is creating more problems for themselves.
I don’t believe they contradicted. What I saw was a logical prograssion of events. You see your unconfortableness at the end of dkr pretty matches my uncomfortableness at the end of dk. Batmans sacrifice of reputation was noble, but the lie bugged me. The one thing you said “The heroes don’t win per se, they craft victory out of a lie” that’s correct and that’s the image that we’re presented with at the start of dkr. the heroes still haven’t won, and the victorious lie has maintained “peace” time for 8 years. a considerable victory for a lie, but as a fellow commenter stated gordon wants to see batman honored, and batman is on the run from the police… this is brought home when batman tries to do something, tries to stop bane the first time, and well bane’s a nobody and batman is number one most wanted, bane gets away. the noble lie is a profound philosophical argument but this movie speaks the truth that all lies eventually will be found out. And real sacrifice, the sacrifice batman was willing to make in the end, trumped the false sacrifice.
And honestly I don’t think Nolan wanted to make dk’s ending a profound statement, it’s a cliff hanger, it makes you want to see what comes next, the heroes don’t always win, that’s a profound statement, in the real world the truth is that some heroes lie, eventually they will be found out… perhaps not as dramatic as in the movies
The entire trilogy is a (then) constant struggle between what is right for Bruce/Batman and what is right for Gotham. The building up of a lie to protect Gotham’s interests at the end of TDK and throughout the beginning of TDKR was deemed necessary to bring Gotham up from its self-inflicted fall. The radical shift in philosophy in the final film is a reflection of the shift in Bruce and Gordon’s perception of themselves and of Batman and of the city of Gotham.
I feel that the ending of TDKR is actually a profound underscore of TDK’s preachings; by sacrificing the presence of the Batman in Gotham by feigning his death in the nuclear explosion, Bruce took the idea of inspiring by misleading to new heights, as he gave Gotham a clean slate with which it can begin its fight against crime without the aid of a “superhero”.
l’m sure a lot of people said this already. It was always “SOMETIMES the truth isn’t good enough” and the situation in Gotham changes in TDKR so now the noble lie is unneeded.
It always amazes me how profoundly people can misunderstand The Dark Knight, because the meaning is so clear. The point wasn’t that “sometimes lying for the right reasons is a good thing,” the point was all about the famous quote that when hunting monsters, you have to be sure not to become a monster.
Bruce didn’t heed that advice. He was arrogant to think he knew better than anyone else and as such, he was the inspiration for the Joker. In The Dark Knight Rises, Bruce is paying the price for his arrogance. THAT’S the point. It’s not a contradiction, it’s a continuation.
i agree. thats why he told selina that he hadnt given gotham everything! it is the genuine sacrifice that he made in tdkr. tdk is an important step/failure for him to realize this in tdkr.
I absolutely agree with what you said and would like to add in that it was also about How Batman can be what the city needs him to be at that moment in time he needed to be the villian, but as the event of TDKR hits he has to restep into the light as the Hero. “I am whatever Gotham needs me to be” – Batman TDK
Agreed. Well said. And also. I think that is what makes this movie so important. It closes everything. I also felt like the Joker won. The city found about Harvey and all the wonderful things he’s done. And it came back to haunt them. Batman really did have to rise above everything. In the end, Bruce’s sacrifice came when he left Batman. And Batman’s sacrifice came when he left Gotham.
Thank you for this article. I absolutely thought that this movie contradicted The Dark Knight. And it bothered me. I was baffled by may of the choices made in the making of this movie and also by the overwhelming positive response it’s getting. The movie us no where as focused, tight or convincing as the previous Batman movies of the trilogy. The characters, plot and dialogue are all lacking and the movie quite unsatisfying. Breaks my heart to say so, but that’s my 2 cents.