In the last month or so, there have been rumblings that Batman Begins and The Dark Knight director Chris Nolan might not return to finish off the bat-trilogy many had assumed he would be a part of until the end. Nolan himself has said in the past that it would take one hell of a strong story and excellent script to lure him back to Gotham City after the crowning achievement (and arduous labor) that was The Dark Knight.
David S. Goyer, story writer of Batman Begins and The Dark Knight, has been a little more glib about the progress of Batman 3 (as it’s being called), telling a crowd at Comic-Con that “Bat-musings” were currently in the works.
As writers wrack their brains, and directors question if there is any creative juice left in the tank, and all this drama unfolds before the inevitable and unstoppable release of the next Bat-sequel, I find myself wondering: At this point, is the plot of Batman 3 really that much of a mystery?
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BATMAN BEGINS / BATMAN: YEAR ONE
If viewers haven’t yet put the pieces together, some of the core storylines for Nolan’s Batman films have each found their inspiration in a famous Batman comic book storyline. Much of Batman Begins‘ take on Bruce Wayne’s early attempts to become the caped crusader was inspired by Frank Miller (Sin City, 300) and David Mazzucchelli’s “Year One” storyline, which first appeared in the pages of DC Comics’ Batman series (issues #404-407) in 1987. A re-imagining of Batman’s formative year, “Year One” was so popular that it was later reissued as the graphic novel Batman: Year One, which is still one of the most popular and enduring Batman stories to date.
Besides borrowing the “Bruce Wayne becoming Batman” storyline from Year One, Batman Begins similarly highlighted Carmine Falcone’s reign as crime-king of Gotham; Batman and (then) Lt. Gordon’s tenuous initial relationship; Gordon’s struggle to be a good cop in a corrupt department; and of course, the scene where Batman evades police by using a sonic transmitter in his boot to summon an army of bats.
Of course, Batman Begins had to also provide moviegoers with blockbuster thrills like a high speed rooftop chase and a (tacked-on?) third-act showdown with Ra’s al Ghul – but strip these big-budget spectacles away and much of what is left is purely Miller’s Year One. And, IMHO, Nolan’s film was better for the borrowing.
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THE DARK KNIGHT / THE LONG HALLOWEEN
Almost a decade after Frank Miller envisioned The Dark Knight’s early days, Jeph Loeb (Heroes) and artist Tim Sale decided to jump back into the Year One sandbox with a new installment of early Batman called The Long Halloween. Published between 1996 and 1997, The Long Halloween picked up right where Year One left off (starting to get the picture?), as Batman, Commissioner Gordon and a new “golden boy” D.A. known as Harvey Dent tried to eradicate the last remnants of the Falcone crime family. All goes well until a mysterious serial killer known as “Holiday” starts picking off members off the mob on each and every major holiday of the year. Like Year One, The Long Halloween was reissued as a graphic novel and is still one of most popular Batman stories there is.
While the whole “Holiday Killer” plotline might’ve been jettisoned, you surely recognize the Batman / Gordon / Harvey Dent triangle as the underlying basis for The Dark Knight. Other echoes of Long Halloween that made it into Nolan’s bat-sequel: the character of underboss Sal Maroni (Eric Roberts); the notion of “escalation” (i.e., Batman inspiring costumed villains); Harvey Dent maimed into Two-Face as punishment for going after the mob; that (tacked-on?) third act where Two-Face seeks vengeance on Batman and Gordon; and of course, the whole “I believe in Harvey Dent” slogan, which is the chilling (and revealing) final line of The Long Halloween.
Now, before I get lambasted: David S. Goyer and Chris and Jonathan Nolan all did exemplary jobs re-fitting the storylines of Year One and The Long Halloween for two awesome blockbuster films. No doubt, no argument. However, it’s undeniable that a considerable amounts of both Batman Begins and The Dark Knight had been envisioned (tested and proven) long before the filmmakers sat down to hammer out those scripts. The Nolans and Goyer simply recognized good storytelling when they saw it and decided to build on a strong foundation.
So now, we again find ourselves faced with the question: What should Batman 3 be about?
Well, lucky for us all, the answer, as they say, is written:
Continue reading ‘What Should Batman 3 Be About?’
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Vic insists the Megan Fox rumors are just that, rumors, and it makes sense. I understand Michael Bay hiring Fox, he doesn’t care about acting, but Nolan?? I doubt he would get Megan Fox, he would probably rather get someone who can act. He doesn’t have to rely on Megan Fox leaning over a motorcycle or car to get the boys to go watch it.
Anyway, Robin Williams is not really kid friendly in real life, but that’s his on-screen persona…
Bane could be done realistically I think. I mean, isn’t it proven that we only use about 10% of our muscle’s potential. Imagine if he was pumping himself with a drug that let’s him use 80-90%? That’s, in theory, 8-9 times the strength of a normal human being his size. So imagine a big body builder type, pumping himself with this drug, he can be a pretty tough cookie for Batman to battle with, even with all of his gadgets.
To make it more realistic, they should make it so Bane burns himself out pretty quickly, as in he has to stop the drugs and cool down before he over exerts himself. So maybe a final fight will ultimately involve Batman keeping himself alive long enough to burn Bane out instead of actually trying to fight him face to face…
@ Ken J
It was somthing i heard from other websites about Megan Fox. I agree that she would be to low key for Nolan’s Batman franchise. About Bane, aslong as they dont do somthin simular or stupid to The Batman animated series version of bane and Batman. In that series, it took a injured Batman to control a Bat-robot to combat a Hulk-sized Bane.
What? Bat robot? I don’t remember that, was that in the original Animated Series or one of the new ones??
@ Ken J
Batman built a Bat-Robot to cobat Bane in (The Batman) animated series after being injured. He also had a special Batsuit to keep him warm went he first fought Mr.Freeze.
Oh, “The Batman.” That’s why, I don’t watch that, it looks like complete crap. The animation style is HORRIBLE. And it looks pretty cheesy from what I’ve seen…
In Batman: TAS, when he fought Bane, he messed up his controls so it kind of OD’ed him on that chemical and he almost blew up, lol.
@ Ken j
I suggest you dont watch Batman: The Brave & The Bold, that shows is even worse. I only watched The Batman cause Bruce Timmm’s shows were over. In The New Batman Adventures i love how Batman is missing and Robin is on his own while Nightwing & Batgirl are scounting the globe lookin for Bruce. Robin almost meets his demise if it wasnt for Superman and superman dresses up like Batman to have the villains think Batmans back. Loved the fight scene between Superman and Bane.
Superman and Bane… that should be interesting, lol. I bet Bane was a bit… surprised??
@ Ken J
Bane that it Batman did somthing to himself probly when he lifted up the bolder off himself and Robin sayin hes been workin out. Actually it was Braiac and Superman who surprised each other at the end. While Supes in the Batman costume, even tried to subdue Brainiac with his wires. Brainiac: Batman, I calculated that you should up. Though you’re everying that your fanbase believes, you’re still only human. Then you see the Batcostume burn off and theres Superman. Brainiac: Kal-El, what a surprising moment. Superman: Today’s been full of surprises Brainiac. lol Its one the best episodes Bruce Timm done.
I second the idea brought up a few times about the Riddler being a private investigator that plants evidence for Batman to follow. Such an idea would establish the detective and analytical aspect of Batman, and be interesting. By having the Riddler, you can achieve the opposite of all the villains we have seen so far.
Let’s face it, all the villains (Scarecrow, Ra’s Al Ghul, The Joker, Two-face) are insane, irrational, and very weird in their own way. You could have the Riddler be portrayed as a smart guy and thoughtful guy, borderline normal, but held down by his own evil compulsions, thus making him a tragic figure.
Batman could be hunted down by a truly bloodthirsty SWAT team (like year one) and in more personal danger.
There could be scenes involving Arkham Asylum that are more maniacal than in Begins.
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Finally, it would be nice if there were more shade-of-gray characters. Talia would be a nice one to tie the first and third movie, and Catwoman could make an appearance.
That is all the ideas I have.
I think they made a mistake by killing Two-Face at the end of the Dark Knight. After Heath passed, they should have redone the ending.
However, the table is set for two problems, as it is:
First, Batman is now hated by all of Gotham. He can’t really have the same relationship with Gordon anymore, because that would jeopardize Gordon in ways it wouldn’t have before. This seems like it almost has to be the spine of the new story.
Second, the crime syndicate is in shambles. It’s broke and probably mostly killed off. So there’s a power vacuum waiting to be filled.
I think, without Two-Face, and with the promise of no Robin, the stage is very well set for a free-for-all like the No Man’s Land story. Gotham will then remember why it needs Batman.
“I think they made a mistake by killing Two-Face at the end of the Dark Knight”
I agree. They could have done much more with that character. Only if Nolan would have left his fate ambiguous and not confirmed his death, then he could bring him back. However, it would be just a cheep cop-out to bring him back from the dead.
Having said that, I think the Riddler would be a bad idea at this point. If they go with a character that can outsmart and toy with Batman, you are automatically too much like The Dark Knight. That would be a mistake. They need a new direction, and frankly, the Riddler is too much like the Joker to give it.
The theme for the next movie was, I think, introduced by Gordon like it was in Begins. He’s not a hero; he’s what Gotham needs him to be. And Gotham has to learn that it needs him.
Power vacuum. Free-for-all.
Also, I don’t think the Batcrew likes doing what everyone expects. (I mean, Ras al Ghul and Scarecrow for the first movie?) I wouldn’t be surprised if they go without the love interest. That’s never really been that important to this character, but they always focus on it for the movies. They might not do that, here.
Here’s my thoughts on the next Batman…
http://ahole.org/2009/09/next-batman-villains/
I actually see a way around the whole “death of Harvey Dent” scenario. At the end of Dark Knight it’s made known that the public should never know what Dent did so that he can remain, even in death, the White Knight of Gotham. Logically speaking, Batman and Dent both fell from the same height and Batman got up and pretty much just shook it off. Who’s to say that in the interest of preserving Harvey’s good name they didn’t just announce to the general public that he had died while secretly locking him away in the darkest corner of Arkham believing him to be a lost cause? Were Dent to break free from Arkham and resurface it would paint the cops and city officials in a bad light, thus reminding Gotham why Batman is so important, and why he was needed in the first place.
As to what the new one should be about, I personally think it would be a mistake to use characters previously seen on film. They struck gold with Dark Knight, but I think it was in spite of the fact that they used villains from the Burton/Schumacher films rather than because of it. Begins was just as amazing as Dark Knight in its own way and it used fairly obscure villains from Batman’s rogues gallery. The same could be done again, very easily. After all, Batman’s comic book history shows no shortage of villains to choose from. I haven’t been able to put my finger on who would be perfect for it, but I’m sure, given the talent of the folks behind these films, the right choice will be made.
Then again, I’ve become deathly afraid of “3rd’s” after the horrible tastes that X-Men 3 and Spider-Man 3 left in my mouth. Comic book films have been following the pattern of “first one is amazing, second one blows the first out of the water, third one has you reaching for a flamethrower”.
Id still prefer for them to include villains that we havnt seen yet on film thats already been used by Burton/shumacher.
We already seen the best ones get used up except few were shown in the wrong way on film say villains like Bane and Mr.Freeze etc. But id like to see villains like Black Mask, FireFly, somehow down the road introduce Harley Quinn only if they were to have someone play the Joker even if its a minor role. If they have multiple villains, i think Black Mask hiring Bane would be a good idea. We’ve seen villains use their brains, why not give the Batman a physical threat. We’ve seen Batman bleed before on film, id like to see more than that happen. Unlike the other superheroes, Batman is the one people know is vurnerable.
jeez this is tough, if im nolan im worried about how to bring the bat backaround.
you cant have the sm3 good vs evil inner turmoil thing . dude had his girl vaporized, dug through her ashes, and still let the freak live while keeping up the goodietooshoes act.
DO you go darker in the third, or do you try and redeem the characters appeal to the gotham public.
There really is huge scope for a Batman 3 however, all I would ask is that if they do go the Catwoman road: please, please, PLEASE, try to remain faithful to the established DC formula. Selina Kyle is a brunette and anything less than a 36″ C cup just wouldn’t be Catwoman, now would it … ?
Um, EVERY female character in comics will have a minimum C or D cup, it’s not important to stick to that…
@ Ken J
What do you think of Disney buying Marvel characters? I hope they dont intend to make every upcoming Marvel film into a Batman&Robin type film if you know what i mean.
@chrisj
Or worse… lol
I’m hoping they will just be providing the money and reeping the profits and leaving the creative work to Marvel…
What if they buy DC too?? lol
Harley Quinn and Joker will become real clowns, haha.
@ Ken J
True, i thought Supergirl was worser than Batman & Robin, no wonder why Christopher Reeve declined to be part of the film. Disney buying DC? lol i dont even wanna think about that. You know, instead of remaking good movies, studios should try harder to remake the bad ones like Supergirl etc.
in my opinion there’s only way to up the ante from the dark knight story, and its with the knightfall/knightsend story.
on my blog i outlined the reasons for this, check it out if you’re interested:
http://darkfantom.blogspot.com/2009/06/th.html
@chrisj
oh, but didn’t they get that super cutie Helen Slater to play super girl?
@ Ken J
Yea, but even she couldnt save the film from being bad. If Christopher Reeve got involved it might of had a better chance, then again maybe not. Helan Slater was great and it was nice to have the film connected to Reeve’s films by showin a poster of Christopher Reeve as superman and Jimmy Olson be in the film. But as for the villains and plot, they needed work. Question Ken: do you think WB should give Singer another shot of makin a Superman film, or reboot the whole thing and maybe have someone like Tom Welling make a movie based off the Smallville series?
I’d say no to both of those ideas. No to continuing the storyline from Superman Returns and big no to a Tom Welling Smallville based movie. They should just reboot Superman and start from scratch. Smallville is somewhat of a teenage soap opera, don’t need that on the big screen…
@ Ken J
All i have to say if they reboot, i hope they have Superman’s costume look more like Christopher Reeve’s cause i didnt like Brandon Routh’s though i liked him as Superman. And as a personal note if they use Lex Luthor again, i hope they have him turn out to be a business man instead of some thug from the previous films. That way his roles can be limited. I hope they dont make Superman dark too, cause that sort of thing is for Batman. Anyone heard that if Christopher Nolan drops outta Batman 3 that Christian Bale will too? That would be a short Batman franchise id say.
@ chris j
To me ” The Batman” cartoon wasn’t that bad… Comparing it to the brave and the bold that is. I liked it for all of the different takes they had in their version. For instance the joker took the term ” monkey suit ” to a different level by taking on the aspects of a monkey and tailoring the suit to how a monkey would wear it. Eventhough it wasn’t conroy voicing him it was still (imo) much better then ledgers and similar to conroys in certain mannerisms and episodes. Also with him being as over-the-top as he was it made the riddler seem different and serious ( in which he was).
I do agree with the bane episode but at the same time at least it tried to be different instead of just re-telling the comics or tas.
I also liked their take on the origin story of harly where she’s not an intern at arkham but more of a quirky dr. Phil that proudly likes to point out her psycology degree she got on an internet course. It kinda ends like the TAS episode “mad love” where she’s pissed off at the joker till she sees the note showing that he cares.
They’re was also the tie-ins with the justice league where he joins after helping save the world with martian manhunter… Pretty cool episodes in my opinion and he got supes to join the league after confronting him.
Tas was and is far superior ( imo) than any or most batman cartoons but as far as a second to me it has to be this one ( eventhough it ended in season 5 with the batman helping the justice league get their powers back and once again saving the world…lol cheesy i know).