When CBS decided to order the modern-day Sherlock Holmes pilot Elementary, fans of the BBC and PBS series Sherlock were appropriately perplexed. While there’s nothing inherently wrong with creating a modern-day Sherlock Holmes, it’s currently being done. By the best. And it’s very good.
Fortunately, Sherlock executive producer Sue Vertue (and wife of co-creator Steven Moffat) isn’t staying quiet about CBS’s programming decision. Shedding some light on why CBS decided to move forward with their modern-day Sherlock Holmes pilot, as well reassuring fans that they’ll make sure Sherlock is in no way negatively impacted by Elementary, Vertue lays out the uphill battle that CBS will have if they decide to take their modern telling of Sherlock Holmes to series.
Following the announcement of CBS’s Elementary, Vertue took to Twitter to mock the network’s decision (which has since been removed): “Mmm interesting CBS, I’m surprised no one has thought of making a modern day version of Sherlock before, oh hang on, we have!”
Moving outside of the limited 140-character world of Twitter, Vertue revealed to The Independent that she knew CBS was interested in developing a modern day Sherlock Holmes series, because the network previously approached Sherlock bosses about wanting to remake their series – a series that’s currently on the air and that is co-produced and broadcast by PBS in America:
We understand that CBS are doing their own version of an updated Sherlock Holmes. It’s interesting, as they approached us a while back about remaking our show.
At the time, they made great assurances about their integrity, so we have to assume that their modernised Sherlock Holmes doesn’t resemble ours in any way, as that would be extremely worrying.
While Vertue did confirm that CBS assured Sherlock producers at one time, things can change over time, especially as a project is developed further. After what may be a change of executives at the network, changes in writers and showrunners, things that were once assured have the possibility of falling to the wayside.
Thankfully, Vertue (as well as everyone else involved in Sherlock) isn’t going to allow that to happen. In what may be the most indirect (yet direct) warning that any UK television producer has publically given an American television network (though in polite fashion), Vertue elegantly states:
We are very proud of our show and like any proud parent, will protect the interest and wellbeing of our offspring.
While not out-right threatening CBS with legal action, the wording does lend itself to the assumption that if something were to negatively impact Sherlock, BBC’s legal department will be at the ready.
But what exactly could Sherlock make a case about? At what point could the BBC take legal action again CBS’s Elementary? Thankfully, The Independent asked copyright specialist Margaret Tofalides that exact question.
The concept of a new Sherlock Holmes is unprotectable. But if the unusual elements of the BBC series – the modern settings, characters, clothes, plots and distinctive visual style – were closely reproduced in the CBS version, that could form the basis of a potential copyright claim.
And therein lies the problem for CBS. How is a network supposed to develop a pilot that needs to be continuously and extensively vetted by its legal department in order for it to make it to air? While subtle similarities may show up here and there, the sheer amount of work and potential legal battles that may come from attempting to bring about one new series to air isn’t worth it.
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Sherlock season 2 airs in May on PBS. Expect Sherlock season 3 Summer 2013. Expect CBS to make a decision on Elementary this May.
Follow Anthony on Twitter @anthonyocasio
Source: The Independent [via: Digital Spy]
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I hope Elementary doesn’t happen, Sherlock is a great series!
Same! Being British myself I would hate to see a character that is so inherently British tainted by American culture, Don’t get me wrong, there are plenty of American crime shows that I absolutely love and are hooked on, but ‘Sherlock’ is British through and through and have done a marvelous job at turning a Victorian character into a new age modern technical investigator. What are they going to have him do? Live in some kind of Manhattan skyrise, drink black coffee and take yellow taxi cabs around NYC whilst uttering ‘Elementary Watson’ and panning out to a dramatic screen shot of the American Flag?….no thanks. Moffat and Gatiss have done it right, I don’t see why they would attempt to make something that they couldn’t compete with and no one would watch. :-/ .
Seriously? So according to this Sue Vertue person there is not allowed to be multiple television shows that are alike? I think that is completely ridiculous… Networks compete all the time! I am surprised that there hasn’t been another Zombie show competing with ‘The Walking Dead’ YET.
While I have yet to see this ‘Sherlock’ show on BBC, I have heard great things about it. But, all-in-all is it NOT just another crime solving show? The “crime of the day” type of show (i.e. ‘Law & Order’ [kind of], ‘CSI’, etc.). Her only argument is that CBS contacted them about possibly remaking their series… Well, Sue, your series IS a remake in itself (maybe more of an interpretation if you want to get technical).
No, it´s not just another “crime of the day” show. It´s incredibly clever written. The episodes are 90 minutes long and the acting and photography is outstanding. And there´s a subplot that unfolds throughout the series. It´s hard to explain, but if you watch it, you´ll understand.
I think many of the fans of this show are either very dim or just exaggerating just how cleaver it is. I like the show a lot but come off it.
Why do we have to be “dim” to appreciate great writing?
Some people hide behind calling others stupid when they don’t understand something themselves.
We can, at least, spell ‘clever’.
Derek: 1
Dirk: 0
★★★★★
I find that statement about the fans ‘very dim’ offensive alongside the ‘exaggeration’ on how *clever it is. Of course it’s all down to opinion here but I find what you have just said to be an exaggeration of whom the fans are.
It may not be a perfect show and I fail to think of one that is, heck at least one episode per series so far hasn’t lived up to expectations, but it’s definitely one of the better and more intellectual British programmes out there.
Anyone who spells the word clever with an “a” in it, really shouldn’t be calling others dim.
Hahaha, that made my day.
Dirk2.0 knows how to spell clever you grammar nazis!
Yes Sin it is just another crime of the week type show except its Sherlock Holmes solving the crimes and not a cop. The show is very good but far from perfect. Its fans seem to think its the greatest thing since sliced bread and like to take pot shot at America while defending it. There’s a lot of exaggeration about the shows quality from fans and crew alike from what I can tell. They only make three episodes a year so theres no way just showing it in the US on a major network would work and so CBS wants to make its own version and that’s where the issues come in.
They only make three episodes a year?
Yeah and for good reason. For a start it’s quality not quantity, the US format of 20-22 episodes per season is a dying art and we’re better off with it being gone. 12 episodes is a much better format.
As for Sherlock, each episode is 90 minutes and the quality of a film. So they have essentially made 6 ‘films’ already.
@DrSamBeckett
I agree that SHERLOCK has been an incredibly awesome TV series so far but even though each story is 90 minutes long and therefore equivalent to the length of a short film I wouldn’t call each SHERLOCK story a movie. The writing is definitely on par (and in many comparisons above par) with actual movies one can still tell that they are watching a TV show and not a movie. The lighting, camera work and sets all say TV SERIES.
I admit I don’t know for certain but I’d guess (based on what has been shown so far) that SHERLOCK has a relatively low budget even for BBC. If that’s true I do hope they plan to correct that in the future. A little more effects and people and scenery (without a cut in writing or acting quality) would raise SHERLOCK to an even higher level.
Personally I thought that the season 2 opener was superior to the last SHERLOCK HOLMES film from Guy Ritchie.
Really? Along with Luther and Doctor Who, Sherlock is a great looking show. It is filmed on location in London, it is exactly how London looks. I know, I live here. Sherlock has a huge budget in comparison to most BBC shows. And it has a realistic look rather than a lot of US shows which always have an artificial asthetic.
No, Dirk, it very much is not “just another crime of the week” because if you have watched the show one would hope that you would be able to see the blatantly different approach the series has to other “crime of the week” dramas. It does not follow a regular murder mystery “whodunnit” pattern. It is produced, written, directed and acted extremely well in all areas and the massive public reaction supports this. This is not exaggeration, it is a firm opinion of mine that is shared by millions of others (not just fans) which is quite clear the UK press even reporting and speculating upon it and its storylines. If it were only fans praising it then, yes, that would likely be exaggeration, but do you not think such an enormously wide viewership appraisal says a great deal for the sheer quality this drama is made with?
Dirk, NOBODY of any worth is defending BBC’s ‘Sherlock’ from CBS’s ‘Elementary’ because the latter is American. The BBC, makers of ‘Sherlock’ and its fans are defending it because CBS are obviously riding on the back o the BBC series’ huge success and are hoping to leech off some of their own. I would have thought this clear since CBS asked the BBC if they could produce an American remake of ‘Sherlock’, were turned down, then miraculously appear with a new series where (in basics) the only difference is the location.
Dancing on Ice and the X factor have more viewers who think they are great – proving that the majority are idiots and should not be the litmus test for quality.
It is a litmus test for what gets copied though – although badly if there is no talent to pull off anything more than style and format.
JR – Quality aside – the shows you refernce were actually licensed from the orignal UK shows. Something the producers of Sherlock declined to do. Apples & oranges there.
Well I think she’s more worried that CBS will just duplicate the show, which then could lead to a potential copyright claim. If CBS starts to use the same characters (not thinking of holmes and watson of course), with different names, same subplots, etc. That’s not to say the two shows won’t still be alike. Because they will since it revolves around Sherlock Holmes.
And if it’s just another crime of the day type of show.. well yes and no. There is someone solving crimes. Usually several murders throughout the show and in the end they find their killer. However there are much more to the show.. there are only 3 episodes a season and they all lead to something. It’s a great subplot. And it’s also very humorous. A lot of fun to watch it. It is a clever show, much more so than the usual crime of the day shows these days. Especially the dialogue. It’s definitely something worth checking out.
Perhaps “This Sue Vertue person” (how rude) is trying to stop CBS from shooting itself in the foot and making sure they don’t lose a heck of a lot of money by making something that can’t possibly be better than Sherlock.
This ‘Sherlock’ series isn’t the mother of all television shows, Starlinguk. Also, my statement saying “this Sue Vertue person” isn’t rude. It’s just me saying that I don’t respect what she is doing.
She’s not trying to help CBS, she’s trying to block them from bringing in THEIR interpretation of the Sherlock Holmes novels. She was entitled to her interpretation, so shouldn’t they be?
I don’t think your reading between the lines. There was a prosed deal between CBS and the producers of Sherlock to do an American version. God knows why. But that clearly fell through. And yet here is CBS rocking up with their own modern take on Sherlock Holmes.
If I were Vertue or Moffat, I’d be incredibly suspicious.
It’s alright to be suspicious. But to publicly come out and say the if CBS has a show that is even remotely similar to their mother-of-all Sherlock Holmes shows is a whole other ballgame. It’s kind of petty, if you think about it. It is alright to be worried that someone might steal your idea, but it’s a whole other thing to say it out loud in front of the public and smear any image that CBS might have to fans of ‘Sherlock’. For all we know, ‘Elementary’ could be totally different.
Why is it okay to think it covertly and wrong to say it out loud that they will go after them if they copy their style and ideas? It’s only a fair statement.
And I have to say, since you haven’t seen it yet and have no idea what the style of the show is, it’s kinda moot to argue with you about it. You see Sherlock and think Doyle’s Sherlock Holmes and its intellectual property – people who have actually seen it see Sherlock and think on-screen graphics, John’s blog and psychosomatic issues. Apples and potatoes.
It’s wrong because it’s bad publicity for ‘Elementary’… How can you not see that? Oh, probably because you’re one of the people who seem to worship ‘Sherlock’…
I don’t care how good it is. I am going to try and watch it, but I will not change my mind about how I feel about what Vertue said.
Then apparently you are simply closed-minded. You have no evidence, but even when you get some you won’t change your mind about what Vertue said? Look, we don’t know how Elementary will be, and as I was just telling my wife, it is entirely possible for it to be a modern remake with an American Holmes that doesn’t infringe on Sherlock at all.
On the other hand, they came to the BBC and asked to make an American version of Sherlock. (For the record, I’m American myself.) They were turned down. They then came out with their own MODERN REMAKE OF SHERLOCK HOLMES. That’s suspicious no matter how you slice it. It’s like if you wrote a TV show about King Arthur in the modern world (call it “Arthur), someone asked to make their own version, you turned them down, and then they came out with “Camelot”, a story about (you guessed it) King Arthur in the modern world.
Are you saying you wouldn’t find that in the least suspicious, and that you would be wrong to say something along the lines of “Hopefully they don’t infringe me, but if they do I will protect myself.”?
There cannot be an American interpretation of ‘Sherlock Holmes’ because he is an inherently British charecter relating to a period of British history and culture, not American. ‘Sherlock’ is re-interpreting this character, but still including the inherently British aspects of the character and following the inherently British theme and plot lines of the stories that Sir Arthur Conan Doyle penned (who was British by the way). Thus, an American iterpretation is impossible, because there is nothing distincly American to interpret, why to you think Robert Downey Jr. put on a British accent? Because it made the character AUTHENTIC.
I think that it’s a bit of a stretch to insist that Sherlock is “inherently British” when “The Hounds of Baskerville” (S3E2) is basically an X-Files episode. There really isn’t anything about that story that couldn’t be set in the Nevada desert (or the woods near Vancouver, more likely).
Argh, typo. S2E2, obviously, but I included the series and episode numbers for the benefit of people who *aren’t* necessarily familiar with the show, so of course that’s the part I screw up…
Ummmm yeah. No. Sherlock Holmes was invented in Victorian times by Arthur Conan Doyle. That means he’s English.
No, this isn’t a case of competing shows – this is a case of taking the same characters and doing a version of the same idea.
To take your example, this isn’t like someone making a new Zombie show, this is like another channel making a show about zombies, with the main character being a deputy sheriff called Rick Grimes, based on the same comic book series.
The point of the warning is that Sherlock Holmes and John Watson are not just character-types, they are genuine characters. The BBC version has transplanted them into a contemporary setting, but they are still, essentially, the same characters as written by Arthur Conan-Doyle. As CBS is proposing the exact same concept, it is the purview of the BBC to protect what has made their series a success – that being the style of the programme; the clothes, the photography and the specific plots and effects that are particular to it.
The “Sherlock” show has done things that are distinctly different from the books, however. For example, in the very first episode Sherlock makes a series of deductions that John Watson has an elder brother who he’s fallen out with because the brother is an alcoholic based on John’s cell phone (and the elder brother turns out to be an elder sister). A similar series of deductions is made in the original novel “A Study in Scarlet” based on Watson’s pocket watch. If “Elementary” has Sherlock making the same deduction on a cell phone instead of a pocket watch, that would be copying “Sherlock” and not the original novels. That’s the kind of thing the BBC and the director and creators of the series are looking out for.
Yes 10 that right! someone finally got it right!
Besides ‘Sherlock’ writes have been very clever by allowing the technology side of the whole show to be introduced without it feeling wrong, it would be very difficult to allow these elements to be used without intruding on the BBCs version, (yes I know it’s part of the point of a modern day Sherlock Holmes to use the new technology)
Cleaver – something to cut or split or chop with. Possibly a murder weapon.
Clever – smart, intelligent, someone of wit.
And she’s arguing intellectual property, not “similar” shows. Law&Order are spin-offs. As are the CSI shows. If CBS wants to avoid a law suit they’re going to have to make Elementary as different from Sherlock as Grimm is from Once Upon a Time. And as different as Sherlock is from the Robert Downey Jr Sherlock Holmes Movies.
Elementary, my dear.
No one will agree with anything that you’ve written simply because you haven’t seen BBC’s Sherlock. Make sure you know what you’re talking about before dismissing it as just “another crime solving show”. Such drivel
Sorry that I have a life beyond movies and television. Just because I haven’t actually seen the show (yet, but judging by how big of a$$ho!e’s it makes its fans – maybe I won’t), does not mean that I can not judge it for being exactly what it is – ONE interpretation of a novel that was written decades ago and has had dozens of interpretations.
I wish you’d read other people’s comments.
The concern isn’t that CBS is doing their own version. The concern is that CBS specifically asked the BBC to copy “Sherlock,” and when the BBC said no, CBS decided to go on with their own version. Sue Vertrue and the creators of “Sherlock” aren’t saying that CBS can’t do it, they’ll just be watching it very closely to make sure it doesn’t copy any of the things that are unique to “Sherlock.” They’ve already copied one thing, and that is making it a modern day version. There’s also a new Sherlock Holmes series being produced in Russia, but nobody’s getting pissed off over that because it is the standard Victorian version.
I’m just going to repost what I said to DrSamBeckett.
It’s alright to be suspicious. But to publicly come out and say that if CBS has a show that is even remotely similar to their mother-of-all Sherlock Holmes shows is a whole other ballgame. It’s kind of petty, if you think about it. It is alright to be worried that someone might steal your idea, but it’s a whole other thing to say it out loud in front of the public and smear any image that CBS might have to fans of ‘Sherlock’. For all we know, ‘Elementary’ could be totally different.
They didn’t ask to copy it. They asked to reinterpret it and bring it to America… Which actually should be a really good thing Vertue… Brings her vision to millions of other screens. I’m sure there is more to the story though.
Lol nevermind… It posted…
Must say that I agree with you that the chest thumping by Vertrue, Moffat and the BBC is a bit in poor taste (I’m pretty sure Gatiss has kept quiet on the issue – he tends to be the least ridiculous of the two writer/creators). The fans would be up in arms either way. I don’t envy the writers and directors of “Elementary,” because I think making it different enough from “Sherlock” to satisfy Moffat, Vertrue and the BBC will be a hard row to hoe.
For the record, I’m an American who doesn’t own or watch TV. I started watching Sherlock via computer after hearing over and over that it was good, and I find it a pretty engaging piece of television. I think you should check it out. That being said, I really don’t care one way or the other about ‘Elementary.’ Any Sherlock Holmes fan would welcome more Sherlock Holmes, right?
I’m going to have to watch it to see it for myself. I’m not a huge Sherlock Holmes fan myself, I just wanted to put my two cents into this news article and well, I did and got some good results discussion-wise haha.
I just don’t understand how different they have to make it. I guess I’m going to have to see it, but what type of things can they not use that are so important to the ‘Sherlock’ show runners? I don’t understand what they could do that no one else could have done?
It’s just that they use the source material to make the stories a little different. I posted elsewhere that Sherlock makes a deduction about John Watson’s sibling using a cell phone in the show – the same deduction is made in the novel “A Study in Scarlet” using Watson’s pocket watch. The “Five Orange Pips” from the story of the same title are dried orange seeds placed in an envelope and mailed to someone as a warning of impending death – in ‘Sherlock’ they use a voicemail of the Greenwich time signal, a beeping sound also referred to as ‘pips.’
Another example is what I like to refer to as “Holmes-vision,” that is, how the writer/director/cinematographer allow us to see inside Sherlock’s mind. In the Guy Ritchie films it is done through the use of slow-motion camera and Holmes giving a monologue. In ‘Sherlock’ it is done through close-ups and text onscreen that tell viewers what he’s noticed. If ‘Elementary’ wants to show us something similar, they’ve got to figure out a whole new way of doing it.
Yeah, it looks like they’d have to figure something else. But, Vertue should not jump to conclusions that ‘Elementary’ can not do so. Seems wrong to me that she did that.
I’ll have to check out ‘Sherlock’.
How is it a good thing to Sue Vertue by bringing “Her” vision to millions of other screens when in fact, she is with the BBC version, which is already being shown in America through PBS. “Sherlock” is already being shown in America through both the internet and PBS. It’s not adding her vision to millions because the vision is already there without any help from CBS.
It won’t let me repost it, but look what I said to DrSamBeckett up above..
It really is a pretty awesome show with clever writing and brilliant acting and direction. You really need to check it out. I’m by no means a fanboy (heck, I hated two episodes of it), but to understand this argument let alone take part in it, you HAVE to check it out. It is very unique yet strangely familiar to the novels.
You’re behaving like a bit of an arsehole and you haven’t even seen the show. If you have a life beyond tv and movies why are you commenting on something television related? Full of contradictions.
Who is an “arsehole” now?
“if you have a life beyond tv and movies why are you commenting on something television related?”
- Just because I have a life beyond TV and movies does not mean I don’t follow TV and movies and enjoy them. Movies and Television are actually a big part of my life.
So what that I haven’t seen the show yet?! Just because I haven’t seen it does NOT mean that I have to agree with what the Producer says about another networks show. That does NOT make me an asshole for voicing my opinion… The way you people who enjoy this show act, maybe I shouldn’t freaking watch it. I’m not being the “arsehole”, I just don’t think it is right to bash a Networks upcoming television series publicly just because you are worried it will be too similar to yours. If it was released and it was too similar to the show, that is a different story.
The problem is, she has no right to dictate who uses the characters from Sherlock Holmes. Maybe the way they go about doing certain things, but from what I’ve heard from people is that he used a cell phone to do something… So by that knowledge, can ‘Elementary’ NOT use cell phones?
The problem that you’re refusing to acknowledge – and the point that gives Vertue cause to worry – is that CBS came to them about doing an American version of THEIR SHOW a very short time ago and now, lo and behold! CBS has mysteriously come up with ‘Elementary,’ a show that sounds strangely familiar.
And she didn’t actually ‘bash’ the show – she merely expressed some concerns that, given the unusual and slightly-too-coincidental circumstances, that, to borrow a phrase from ‘Sherlock,’ “the game is on.”
So she’s not an “arsehole” at all.
Sherlock is in NO way similar or likened to the hundreds of crime series American television pumps out. It is dear to Vertue, and others, including me, because it is a story that is a heritage to most british people. The fact that it is clear that CBS are trying to create a carbon copy of the classic crime scene shows, but using the Sherlock Holmes books as a groundwork is absolutely ludicrous and should be stopped with all powers necessary!!!
The thing is that CBS is going to make a TV show that is too similar to the BBC Sherlock WITHOUT asking BBC permission and paying any kind of royalties.
Besides, I find it a bit insulting to Sir Arthur Conan Doyle to turn Sherlock an American. Think of it this way… CBS’s Elementary is going to be the (California) valley girl version out of all the Sherlock Holmes adaptations ever made.
Wow these brits are flipping out over this. There is no way they can stop CBS from doing this. Its all legal, that is why theyre going to the press in hopes of poisoning the well for CBS before they ever make this show.
Yes, it’s legal to use Holmes and Watson. But! They can’t use on-screen graphics to explain the thought process of Sherlock. Sherlock mustn’t be addicted to cigarettes. John can’t have an online blog. Those are all Sherlock-related Sherlock Holmes TMs.
Not entirely so. The on screen graphics would be getting close to an infringement of a copyrightable expression, but the idea of Holmes or Watson having a blog is a generality just like updating a pocket watch to a mobile phone. There is no reason that they could not have the papers Holmes wrote in the original stories or Watson’s journals published online in their show. There is no way that the BBC could use that as a basis of an infringement claim unless the US show called the blog “The Science of Deduction”. You simply can’t copyright ideas. Especially, ideas about how technology would be applied to old public domain stories. You can only copyright your unique original expression of those ideas not the ideas themselves. There is already anough difference in the way these two shows are going to be done, particularly in the setting department, to see that this is just another updated version of Sherlock Holmes and something like the 100th update of Sherlock Holmes.
Dirk, I’m American, and I’m just as concerned. Of course it’s legal to make a modern Sherlock TV show. But it’s not legal to just rip off the BBC’s copyrighted version of a modern Sherlock show. The issue is worse because the people making Elementary originally wanted to just do a remake of the BBC version. It looks pretty suspicious to be turned down then come out with your own anyway.
I love Sherlock, but seriously, Sin is right about competing TV shows. I remember the whole debate about how The Mentalist(best show ever) copied Psych(funny show), but Monk(good show) came before that, and there are other shows similar to these, but what I’m trying to say is you might like Elementary just as much as Sherlock or you just might enjoy it for what it is, entertainment.
It’s a little more like if The Mentalist starred a character called Monk with Psychological issues, and who worked with a spunky assistant who called him “Mr. Monk”.
I’m not sure how it goes in America, but in Australia whenever a network produces a popular show or series, which in most cases are already rip offs of American or British shows, the other networks immediately start work on there own versions. I’ve lost track of the Idol, Survivor or Masterchef copies which are currently showing on my tv.
Isn’t the saying, immitation is the highest form of flattery? Considering that they didn’t invent or create Sherlock, and are just using ideas and characters already in existence, they might want to think twice before accusing someone of leaching off someone else’ creations.
The concern here is that CBS approached the BBC about directly copying Sherlock (as American networks have done with Survivor, Big Brother, The Office, and a number of other British shows remade for American tv) and the BBC said no. CBS decided to go ahead and do their own modern version anyway. The BBC and the people directly involved in the show are keeping an eye on CBS to make sure they don’t copy anything from “Sherlock” directly, because the plots in “Sherlock” are based on the novels but aren’t exactly the same – A Study in Pink for example instead of A Study in Scarlet, Hounds of Baskerville being based around a top secret military base instead of an ancient isolated manor house, Irene Adler being a dominatrix instead of an opera singer, and so on.
Well Said avatar. The Fans of this show need to relax. They just might like the American show and end up having two shows they love. I for one hope the CBS show is great and if it is I will still watch the BBC Sherlock because I like it a lot too.
Sherlock is Sherlock. He’s a british icon and as far as I recall his only outing across ‘the pond’ was Sherlock Holmes in Washington played by the wonderfully talented Basil Rathbone. To base Sherlock Holmes in New York would be absurd and i’d wager he’d be lumbered with a laboratory, a team of technicians and a local police officer as his assistant whereas all he needs is his brain. When it comes to solving crimes the fancy way with all the latest gadgets and fancy touch screen televisions ala CSI you guys in the USA are King. When it comes to deductive reasoning and sheer cleverness for crime solving you’ll never beat Sherlock. American network Starz has already destroyed Torchwood by Americanizing it, please don’t do the same with Sherlock.
PS – The problem I find with your networks when you remake something is you take something successful and try to make it bigger. We have a saying here in ‘little’ Blighty (for those not in the know Blighty is the UK) and that saying is ‘If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it’!
You just described CSI New York.
Just described “House,” which actually IS based off of Sherlock Holmes…
Don’t bring your inane Torchwood rants into this fandom as well.
Going ironically off topic, I’m not sure what Torchwood has to do with Sherlock here besides the Doctor Who-Steven Moffat connection and I wouldn’t say Torchwood was destroyed by Starz, it was Russell T Davies’ conscious decision to move from Britain to America in the first place to widen the market.
Actuinally, Holmes did have another “outing across the pond” in the 1970′s TV movie “Sherlock Holmes in New York”.
Actually, there was another outing across “the pond”, the 1970′s TV movie “Sherlock Holmes in New York”.
As an Aussie, I’ve been witness to many wonderful British (& a couple of Aussie) shows being remade in the US, & quite frankly it’s pathetic. Why do the US networks continue to dumb down content for their own audiences by refusing to show things that come from other countries? Why do they have to Americanise everything? It’s so unnecessary. I’m a fan of “Sherlock” because it’s a brilliantly written, wonderfully acted, interestingly filmed show. Why not show THAT to US audiences? I’m sure they would love it just like UK & Aussie audiences have, & wouldn’t be offended by it not being set in the US. Don’t forget, if US film studios had had their way, the Harry Potter films would’ve been set in a US high school! Perish the thought!
Because Hollywood likes to cling to the trope that British people are evil. See also Benedict Cumberbatch being cast as the villain in Star Trek.
Also, Hollywood likes to assume that Americans are stupid and don’t give a hoot for anything that takes place outside of the United States… and unfortunately there are many people who feel that way.
That’s a ludicrous response. Not all British people in American films are evil, and Benedict Cumberbatch being a villain doesn’t prove that they are. Would you prefer he not get cast in the film at all? The heroes are pretty much already set from the first film. What else was left for him?
Additionally, they ARE showing Sherlock in the US, on PBS. That’s why they need to make a new version, because they can’t cash in on the original. It’s being shown to us here in the States, though, I assure you (and thank God for that!).
I came up with the idea of doing a modern Sherlock Holmes about five years ago, it was going to be a book, Holmes would have mid in his early twenties and working in some capacity with the police. Watson would have been much older. Completely new stories.
I’m glad I didn’t follow through with it because everything Steven Moffat and Mark Gatiss have done is a million times better and more imaginative.
But my Holmes will appear in my short stories collection later in the year.
CBS will have to use quite a few of the same characters, because Mrs. Hudson, Lestrade, Moriarty, and Mycroft Holmes are part of the Conan Doyle canon. To make it different, they shouldn’t do what the BBC did and base each episode off one of the stories; I love Sherlock, but I’m interested in seeing CBS’s take on it. (But I think the actor playing Holmes should be English)
Sherlock Holmes is British. It would be really weird to have it set in America. There’s nothing really /wrong/ with CBS making their own version, but I find it pathetic that they want to copy the BBC because they have a popular show.
I wasnt aware there was any info on it being set in America. Still I think the show could be set in the US and be great. HOUSE was a great Sherlock inspired show for years so why not have it set here? If I know Americans wouldnt mind much and as far as British fans go they have Sherlock on the BBC so why all the fuss? Why cant we both have our shows? Why is this such an issue? Please dont say we stole the idea since the only person we could have stolen from has been dead for at least a few weeks.
House is a great show (or was for awhile), but it was really different. They took the idea of Sherlock (a brilliant mind who can deduce things from seemingly insignificant clues) and changed it drastically. He’s a doctor, not a detective, and his helpers are other doctors instead of random street orphans as in the original books. Moving it to the US worked for that reason. I’m not saying an American version wouldn’t work, but how is it even Sherlock at that point? I’m American and I’m baffled by the decision, because why not just make a new detective show and change the character (like House did) rather than try to make Sherlock American?
Hasn’t this happened in recent history already? Remember Camelot and Merlin?
I’m sorry, American television, there are some things you need to stay away from.
Torchwood being a prime example. Taking something with British in its DNA and infecting it to the point of it being unrecognisable.
Olivia, I completely agree! Merlin is an amazing show and Camelot was… painful. As proven by the fact that viewing figures after the first couple of episodes were so low that they have cancelled the show after just one series.
Sherlock is a great show, and people should just be happy with that and enjoy it, without trying to jump on the bandwagon and make some money out of other people’s successes.
I also agree that moving the Holmes characters to NY is bizarre, when they are so quintessentially British!
If there was a like button then I would have clicked it.
The reason why UK fans do not want an American version of this show is because, no offence, but you tend you ruin our shows.
I’m an American and I agree.
Um, even if that’s true (and I think it is a lot of the time, but not always), why do you care? No one’s forcing you to watch American TV, especially not if you hate our versions of shows.
You all forgot “Life on Mars”, another remake of a British show, set in New York. I LOVE Sherlock and Merlin, and I haven’t seen a second of Camelot if for the reason I only watch my telly online and haven’t bothered looking for it.
While there’s a risk of them mucking it up, they might actually do a good job. And, who knows, it might be something completely different. You never know until you try, as they say.
Sherlock is amazing because of the witty writing and brilliant chemistry between the actors/characters. Not because it’s SO CLEVER (not cleaver ^_~) to put Sherlock Holmes in modern day. Really, the way the did it made sense, and it honestly DOES make sense. And, yes, there is a risk of it becoming another CSI show. But then it could become another Psych/Mentalist, since that’s basically what Sherlock is, and was. Only difference is, he’s too much the braggart to let ‘spirits’ take the credit for his brilliance.
I think if they went for something a bit more… campy. Less film more episodic, it might help their case, as it would deviate from the Sherlock series. CBS DOES have some brilliant shows (imo) and they do have CSI and NCIS (and spin offs), so they have writers who know the genre. Let’s hope they can put their own spin on it, so they won’t step on anyone’s toes.
Hollywood is cracking down on Internet piracy, but they don’t mind “sampling” other people’s work. What seems to be the crux of the issue with the BBC is that CBS approached them about remaking their show, and then came up with their own version. CBS really better make sure there aren’t too many little similarities with their version…..
Hello! I just popped into the future to check and I have to say Elementary is awful! Anywho, I’m off to go on my second first date with River…geronimo!
You have won my eternal approval and admiration for that particular comment. Any chance that you need a Canadian companion?
let them make it, it will tank, and BBC will pull in more ratings because everyone will wanna see sherlock because of the new star trek movie… you see what i did there?
Anybody remember the IT Crowd? One of the best UK-or anywhere else for that matter- sitcom EVER! They made the US Pilot even starring Richard Ayoade-the original Moss. They didn’t even air. I watched and it was bland and not funny! Americans, stop ruining UK’s best!
pmahesa,
Yup I’m a fan of at least the first season of The IT Crowd (not so much after they brought in the perv son, except for a few episodes here and there). And I did see the pilot of the American version on YouTube. It was horrifyingly terrible in complete miscasting and delivery of dialog (and cheesy laugh track).
Vic
I already can tell how bad ‘Elementary’ is going to be. Sherlock Holmes is an absolutely genius character, and also quintessentially British. I can’t even begin to imagine how the American’s are going to try and compete with the intelligent, satirical and sarcastic humor and the complex, imaginative and captivating story lines present in every ‘Sherlock’ episode. Good luck to them.. They are going to need it.
As soon as I read the headline for the first Elementary article I just new this would start some crazy beef. the world never fails to disappoint, lol.
Isn’t it obvious whats happened here? They saw how good the modern take on Sherlock was and they decided that they could make an even better version and popularise it in the US, so they tried to buy the rights of the BBC format and failed… and now they’re still going on with it…
It makes sense to me that Sue would be defensive about this. What CBS will essentially try to do is get away with all the features that makes the BBC version so popular and any changes (like the name) will be obligatory to avoid copyright issues. Sue is basically saying that they better not try to get away with copying anything from the BBC version.
I personally don’t like when shows are remade while the original is still running… Especially if it isn’t even necessary. The majority of the time it is botched up & cancelled. Then you get all these original vs. remake wars. It just isn’t necessary. It’s the same language and the British Sherlock style is what makes it unique, why make an American version? Find an old American franchise and modernise it instead.
100% agree!!
I wouldn’t be surprised if “Elementary” stalls at the pilot stage of development. So hopefully this argument will die with it.
@DrSamBeckett, you touched on a point that got glossed over in the other comments that I’ve been thinking about for a while. The 22-23 episode seasons of serialized dramas are becoming a dying breed here in the US. If you’d make a list of the best dramas airing today it would be almost exclusively filled with shows following the 10-13 episode format. I know the major networks will never give up on the longer seasons because of the advertising dollars but that’s why other networks like AMC, FX, HBO & Showtime are thriving. The shorter season leads to better story telling and tighter arcs. Theres less bad guy of the week episodes and each season feels like a contained story. I can’t imagine what a show like Breaking Bad or Homeland would be like if they had to stretch it out over 22 episodes. Even the best series got bogged down because they had to be stretched out. As much as I loved the show imagine how much better Lost would have been if they didn’t have to fill the story with so much fluff each season?
I’ll stop ranting now because I suppose I’m not making much sense any more but I think I made my point….
Exactly the point I was trying to make. Dexter, Californication, Boardwalk, anything on Showtime or HBO. Your statement about Lost is equally correct, had it been tighter seasons and even tighter writing, would have made for a much more palatable show.
It’s quality. Not quantity.
Well this North American wishes that they would broadcast the BBC version over here more quickly rather than Americanize it. There are so many great quality programs from over seas that I’d love to see on my TV as they are. I don’t understand why it all has to be retold as an American story. Do the networks really believe that Americans are totally unable to connect with characters from other countries(other than as the bad guy)?
Alright everyone, I think everybody is missing the point here… My issue with what Vertue has said is that she publicly jumped to the conclusion that CBS would copy her ‘one-of-a-kind’ interpretation of a story that has been around for a very long time.
My issue is that so many of you that seem to worship this show, ‘Sherlock’, seem to not understand what I am saying. CBS is entitled to have their interpretation of this show – and I don’t see the point in Vertue publicly coming out and saying that they will take legal action if ‘Elementary’ is similar to ‘Sherlock’ in any way.
I understand that ‘Sherlock’ has done some things itself to alter the stories of Sherlock Holmes, but who is to say that CBS won’t do the same with ‘Elementary’? She is acting like CBS has no creativity and a lot of people that have commented on here from different countries seem to agree when you talk about American television. But, at the end of the day ‘Sherlock’ is just a rehash of the Sherlock Holmes novels – only set in present day.
There is more than one point in these discussions. Addressing your particular point, I agree that CBS has every right to riff on the original Arthur Conan Doyle stories. But, they don’t have the right to make ‘Elementary’ the American ‘Sherlock’. They will have to be careful that their interpretation of Sherlock Holmes is their own and not Moffat’s/Gatiss’ Sherlock with different accents in a new town.
In all honesty I’m sure they will have their own spin. We will no doubt get watered down scripts with 20 episodes per season by writers barely familiar with canon and casting based on looks and youth. And if they actually do a great job with it and it is successful they will manage to kill it by creating increasingly disappointing spin-offs. Sorry, now that was a bit too jaded there.
IKR? Without direct evidence that CBS plans to use SHERLOCK-specific TMs, the creators of SHERLOCK are poisoning fans against another interpretation of modern day Sherlock Holmes. SHERLOCK does not own the right to Sherlock Holmes, nor even own the idea of updating Holmes for a modern audience. There are really a finite number of missteps that CBS could make in the infringement category, and I’d imagine that their legal team has a handle on them—that’s what BBC’s “no” would mean to them. It’s NOT going to be like The Office, Life on Mars, or Skins. CBS understands that they don’t have that sort of prerogative. Publicly flailing about and acting buttsore just as though your show had been infringed on and basically poisoning the small but very loyal SHERLOCK fan base against a different show built on the same premise seems really tasteless to me, not to mention precipitous.
The way I see it, Sherlock Holmes is British. He has always been British since Sir Arthur Conan Doyle wrote him. Even Robert Downey Jnr plays him as a Brit. So to take that Britishness away from Sherlock Holmes and to make him American, it’s kind of taking away part of Sherlock Holmes’ identity.
It would be like the Brits taking Captain America and making him Irish, or taking Spiderman and making him Scottish.
It takes away from who the characters actually are.
Maybe the CBS plan to still keep Sherlock as a Brit living in the US, I’m not sure, but I’m somehow doubtful of this.
As for BBC’s Sherlock, since watching this show, I would have to say that for me, Benedict Cumberbatch IS Sherlock Holmes. The way he plays Sherlock is just perfect. On top of that, those involved in the writing of Sherlock are passionate about it and this shows through in each episode. From the camera work to the post production, this show is extremely high class and would be very hard to top.
Ironic. Our Am. superheroes are played increasingly by Brits on the big screen…
And like I said, Robert Downey Jnr plays a brilliant Sherlock Holmes in the recent movies, but even though he’s American, he plays the character British. Just like British actors playing American superheroes play them as Americans. They don’t suddenly change the plot so that say, Spiderman comes from Newcastle instead of New York.
All of that is true, and still full of irony.
You are suggesting a British actor has no difficulty interpreting an American icon but that a fictional British icon cannot be interpreted by others of a different nationality.
For everyone saying Americans take shows from the British & others and remake them to “dumb it down,” I disagree. It’s not to dumb it down. It’s because for most of them, we wouldn’t get the cultural references. I wouldn’t call that being “dumb”. We just aren’t exposed to as much “foreign” TV as other countries are.
Take The Office for example. I’m American, but I prefer the UK version. I haven’t seen much of the US version, but I know the first episode is a lot like the one from the UK. But like I said, even though it’s similar, I think the studios prefer to air shows with cultural references that we would understand. The only reason I understood some of the stuff on there, is because I watch British TV online.
I never watched Camelot when it was on, but you guys do know that we do air Merlin here, right? On Syfy? Camelot wasn’t trying to remake the UK version of Merlin. It was just doing its own take on the Arthurian legend. This doesn’t go for all shows, of course. I just wanted to defend us a bit.
As for Sherlock, I am a fan of the show, but I’ll also be interested in at least watching ‘Elementary’ if it gets made. Because no matter what, I am a Sherlock Holmes fan. I am a fan of the books above all else, and I’ll always want to see whatever version is made through film. The problem that I have with it, is that making it modern was Steven Moffat’s & Mark Gatiss’s idea. It’s not just another 18th century remake of the stories. CBS would have never come up with the idea to modernize Sherlock Holmes on their own. (Well, I can’t say never, but I doubt it). It’s not like CBS is setting Holmes and Watson in 18th New York and doing their take. They’re doing it in the 21st century.
I will be interested to see how much different they can make it from the BBC version to make it not just be a copy. I don’t even know if it’d be worth if for them to try. I’d be upset too if I’d had the brilliant idea to modernize Sherlock Holmes, made a successful show out of it, and then some other country wanted to take my idea and make their own show out of it and say they made it up. Even though CBS contacted the BBC to remake it, you think anyone who doesn’t watch British TV is going to know that it wasn’t CBS’s idea?
That may just sound like an ego thing, but if you’re an artist of any form, you know how much it stings/creates a black hole of anger in your stomach/heart, to think of someone taking your ideas and claiming them as their own, and that person getting applauded for it. As a writer, I would HATE for that to happen if someone did that to me. So even if it is just an ego thing, I understand, and support the BBC in “pounding their chests.”
Nevertheless, I hope things work out, because I would like to see as many takes on Sherlock Holmes as possible. They’re some of my favorite books/stories.
Oh, and if CBS does go through with this, and they make Sherlock & John American, I will probably puke. I get it’s supposed to be an Americanized version, but that is where i’d have to draw the line. Every version, no matter what, or the good ones at least, have made him English. If that’s their intentions, to make him American…I don’t know. I hadn’t even thought they’d do that, even though he’d live in NY, until I saw someone’s comment about that. I just assumed they’d make him English. I don’t know if I’d like an American Sherlock Holmes. That just seems…sacrilege. I don’t know.
American adaptations of British/Foreign TV shows and films always suck. Look at what they did to Being Human for example. Then there’s Let The Right One In and The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo.
Please don’t let them do this. Can’t they just come up with something original?
Really? Your examples are American adaptions: ‘Let Me In’ and ‘The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo’?
There was NOTHING wrong with either of those and they stood strong, IMO, to the foreign versions.
But, the thing that that ticks me off is that you just said, “can’t they just come up with something original?”. ‘The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo’ AND ‘Sherlock’ are BOTH not original. Maybe you can argue with ‘Sherlock’ that they had done it differently, but ‘Dragon Tattoo’ wasn’t original. Being based off of a book makes it un-original.
Obviously, neither of the films that you listed that us Americans remade weren’t original, but there is really no such thing as originality in Hollywood anymore.
But, seriously ‘Let Me In’ and ‘Dragon Tattoo’ were excellent.
Well unless it stars Benedict Cumberbatch & Martin Freeman and is written and run by Moffat and Gatiss, it won’t have a snowball’s chance in hell.
How can you call a show that’s about someone elses work, characters, stories and so on “intellectual property”? What exactly did the BBC come up with thats so original and CLEVER? Oh but its Sherlock Holmes set in modern day London. Its a modern take! So is HOUSE and a number of other shows already being made. This whole thing is such a crock of poop!
To all those who were offended by my use of the word “dim” I apologize. I try not to resort to insults but if you take the time to read the comments left on the original post about this show you’ll notice that the British fans were very rude and condescending towards Americans.