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Forrester says:

It’s my own fault for reading so many BSG articles, but I’m a little sick of hearing about what Ronald D. Moore and his writers intended each scene to be about. I think they’ve revealed a little too much of the behind the scenes magic.

For example, I read somewhere that RDM had a vision about Lee’s pigeon but he wasn’t sure what it meant. What’s the point of saying that? Once he said that, the bird just seems like something totally random rather than something symbolic.

It reminds me of the famous Sopranos fade-to-black ending. David Chase didn’t go around telling us what he intended by it. He didn’t say that Tony ended up in a black hole but the scene got edited too much. David Chase kept his mouth shut and left the country that weekend. I kind of wish RDM would have followed his example.

I was wondering about the pigeon. I figured it probably meant something, but I didn’t get it.

LOL… yea, I hear ya Forrester. Finish it, and let it be.

I was looking for some justification on different things.

I like the issue on the Colony Ship being sucked into the black hole. This was an editing choice that shouldn’t have happened.

That and RDM left so many open ended issues that it wasn’t just a simple fade to black…

If he only had one or two things, that would have been fine. But the show had a lot of red herrings.

Sorry about the overload Forrester! LOL.

Lord Garth, Formerly of Izar says:

We discussed this last week so not to be redundant but I loved it. Too me the biggest hole was kara Thrase harbringer of death ect. Unless it was the Hybrids intent to prevent humans and cylons from merging and reaching the real Earth, ect. Hybrids as villians and lies ect I suppose i can get behind but that was never made clear all the while the prophecises said she was this enigma harbringer of death and doom four horseman thing.

Still find it funny that so many are brokenhearten and offended that it was so heavily steeped in Judeo-Christain mythos. TO the point where many are actually trying to spin it as some non denominational religion mythos to accept it. Sorry folks it couldn’t have been layed on any more thick, pure Genesis Old – New Testimant stuff here down to the Angel Gabriel Starbuck and the angel and Demon (or fallen angels if you will) Head 6 and Baltar. Samuel Collridge could have written this.

I too will miss it but as I post this I am sketching out sort of a What if sequel follow up comic book to the series. First panel teaser is done just have to scan it and sent it to my bro Vic

Gohan says:

I personally think that sci fi or (syfy) urged moore to leave some of these threads open because theres still more BSG is be seen. We have the Caprica thing coming up and then the cylon plan right? If you think that those 2 wont give us any more insight into these lingering questions your CRAZY. I beleive syfy is not only producing a great epic story, but they are also milking it.

steven the git says:

The loose threads bummed me out too. If they like to make it up as they go along, fine, but would help not to have characters talking about a plan!
It just felt like they had pulled rabbits out of hats to amaze us and then couldn’t figure out where they came from.

A lot of stuff didn’t work for me in the finale but I still enjoyed it.

Cavill shooting himself just made me laugh. Would have made more sense for him to surrender and try to wheedle his way out of it, only for someone to kill him. Tigh or Adama. Or a Centurion!

Didn’t need the stuff from Caprica. I knew enough about the characters already.
In fact if there was one character throughout the show that could have done with some of that, it was Zarak. Always wanted to know what really motivated him and more about his past.

But agree on the characters, if that seemed to get side tracked toward the end in favour of the mystical stuff. I wanted to see Chief after he knew he had been betrayed. Saw one clip of him in a cell denouncing humans and cylons – again, wanted to explore that turmoil more.

For me the show was at its best when it was about characters conflicting. The search for Earth and the Final Five was just ok.
I think I was into the show the most at the end of season one and start of season two. With Adama down, Tigh struggling in charge, and Roslin having broken off – intense and emotional.

I don’t think any moment in the entire show beat Adama, having recovered and got back on his feet, declaring to everyone ‘We’re putting the fleet back together.’ :D

Shane Woodhouse says:

While I absolutely loved the series and didnt even particularly mind the ending, I did feel cheapened by one glaring omission (unless I missed it).

We were told about 3 times if I remember rightly, that Kara Thrace is the Harbinger of Doom. Sure I accept that we were also told she would lead them to their end, but I am stuck on the harbinger of doom bit. That was just washed over as if it wasnt made a huge part of the plot.

Other than that though, ace series and it will be sadly missed, and I for one cant wait till The Plan, though Caprica I think will be short-lived and a cash cow.

GOHAN: Good idea on the milking it part. And indeed they are. Just how many networks can make a 4 season show last 6 years!

And that’s an interesting thought… saving things for the other shows. So you think we’ll see that plan in the movie then? Hmm, I was so caught up in this show, I didn’t think of that.

GRIT: Ah, pulling the fleet together… true. Excellent moment of many!

OldDarth says:

Pretty much in line with yours.

BSG became a victim of its own excellence. For 2.5 seasons the show rarely made a misstep and was continually raising the bar on excellence for a TV series.

Post New Caprica the show started to tread water revisiting themes from earlier in the series ie the Baltar trial and the mutiny, or wandering off the main path of finding earth. Some of those segments were well done but ultimately had no impact on the major storyline.

My biggest fear was that the show would spend too much time on these threads and be in a rush to bring everything to a satisfying conclusion. And that is exactly what happened.

It is most telling the more emotionally touching beats came in the first hour of the two hour finale.

The scene between Roslyn and the doc being the most affecting.

For a show that revelled in raising tough questions and examining the consequences of actions taken, the finale veered to far into the territory of things being decided by whim, or fate, or God(s).

Sad. Just goes to show how tough endings are to write.

Still the ride was the best, for the most part. BSG deserves all the kudos it has received despite the missteps of the final season and a half.

Gohan says:

Well from what ive gathered, the caprica story will give us insight into how the cyclons view the world, i dont know the exact phrase for it but its what they use to see trees on there ship instead of metal corridors. Some sort of virtual reality that leads to how the cylons were built. And as far as the plan goes, im sure we will see alot more characters having been knowingly, or unknowingly part of the cylon plan. And i wouldent be suprised if they at the very least, hint at who daniel is.

Paterick says:

[Two Cents]

I think the finale made sure damn near everyone is gonna tune in for any movies they make after this.

Forrester says:

Bruce, you keep those BSG articles coming! I certainly didn’t mean that the overload was coming from you! I’ve read that the DVD release have 20-30 minutes of extra material including more of the black hole scene. Maybe more of the holes will be filled in then.

@Shane Woodhouse: Starbuck was the Harbinger of Death… to the Cylons. It was Kara that found Leoben and the rebel Cylons. By following her and joining the Colonials, they lost the Ressurection Hub and thus they became mortal.

Jack says:

My hypothesis is that either Kara Thrace is Daniel or her father was.

McCoy says:

I loved the first few episodes of Galactica…but after that, lost interest because of the stories. It was clear that while the tone, acting, casting and effects were outstanding, the writing quickly sucked. It was literally all over the place.

You right,but many sci-fi let us with many unanswer questions ! its so,the show final was Brillant anyway ,i love every scenes,it sad soem die ! don’t search too mutch with the writers ,its finish now,i love the show as you since SE1 !

Gary says:

Edward James Olmos is directing The Plan for SyFy aand he has said once the fans see the film , they will have to watch the series all over again.
So, I expect the The Plan to contain quite a few answers.

Jonathon says:

Man you guys… that’s some pretty harsh words for what I thought was one of the best finales I’ve ever seen. I mean, how many shows make it to this point, where they get to end the show on their own note. And then how many shows do it right? When all was said and done I didn’t give a crap about the various loose ends (though I think you guys are missing the point on Kara being the harbinger of doom. She is, in the way that she leads civilization to the new planet where they subsequently abandon their entire civilization. Essentially, she leads them to their ends.) I personally loved it; for me BSG had been steadily loosing its relevance and I was slipping away in my connection. But the ending brought back all the connections I had with every character. I can honestly say that the part where Adama and Roslin leave in the raptor was the only time I have every cried while watching a TV show. Man I’m gonna miss this show to all hell. Ahh well… there’s always the DVDs!

Lance says:

Daniel was Kara’s father. It is unfortunate that they didn’t explore this a little further, but it was pretty obvious from the interplay between them and the fact that her father “disappeared” (to be killed by Cavil). Kara (just like the other cylons) created a mini-world in which her father lived specifically to flesh out the song. Hara, being just like Kara as an offspring between cylon and human, could also see the music.

In terms of the finale itself: it was awesome. The only thing I probably would have changed would be to have them enter Earth’s history a little later instead of at the time of the Neanderthal. Every ancient religion has a story about people coming from elsewhere that teach reading and intellectual pursuits. This is the sort of “Chariots of the Gods” meets BSG (the story of Atlantis is an example for instance). That would have been cool. But, as it stands, I can deal with the 150K.

OldDarth says:

Well as finales goes it was one of the better ones. Just not up to par with the best the series itself had done.

As I said before, the show was a victim of its own excellence.

aloha says:

I have a feeling that we will get an extended finale on DVD. What we saw felt incomplete.

Remember “Razor”? the TV version was not half the amazing movie the extended cut was. Same goes for the “Pegasus” episode.

I´m holding back on my final call. We may be in for a surprise and a few less open loops.

Bruce,

I finally got around to reading this – GREAT review/look-back at the series and the finale.

Vic

Eric says:

I think Moore’s biggest problem was overestimating how many people would know what a “harbinger” was. i.e. “one who announces or heralds something.”

[Kara] is the harbinger of Death. [she] will lead them to their end.

She heralded death, and what was after it because…well, she herself was dead. She led them to their end – her coordinates led them to earth, the end of the journey and arguably the end of cylon and human in their original form.

Seemed pretty clear to me. Oblique, yes, but not too hidden. Certainly, sci-fi TV has been much guiltier of obscure foreshadowing, prophecy, and the like in the past.

FORRESTER

I never looked at it that way. Nice twist to the tunnel vision I was precipitated down. (Kara being the harbinger of doom – to the cylons)

In my article I neglected to add that someone likened Moore’s cameo to the moment he might have gotten the idea to write BSG… probably wasn’t the Moore’s intent, but I like that possible interpretation. – Which I believe was you FORRESTER. Nice.

Thanks Vic!

TO ALL:

Moore has hinted of late that there will be extended scenes in the DVD.

So we may get more answers, of sorts, to some things….

But as a lot of you are saying, you don’t mind the ambiguity and I’m starting to get that. (I really hate seeing both sides of the coin. If confuses me sometimes.)

Mark says:

The pigeon was Kara. She was always right there, but he could never catch her. In the end, she just flew away.

At least, that was my immediate thought.

DannoLark says:

The finale is one hour longer on the upcoming DVDs so I hope we see the black hole scene among others!!!

As for Kara I think that she wasn’t supposed to die in the maelstrom,before she completed her destiny but since she did, she got sent back. Kinda like Gandalf.

I always new someone would become a hybrid but i had thought it would be Roslin. And I’m pissed about the Opera house getting basically pooed out.

I believe that the flashback scenes also served the purpose of acclimating us to the style of Caprica as well.

Gary says:

Lance,
Daniel was NOT karas father .
Ron Moore has specifically stated in his latest podcast that the revelation about Daniel was intended as a Cain and Abel allegory .
It was about Cavill,
Not Kara .

Syd says:

i think kara brought doom in that she carried all the human races social problems too a new evolving world. the inhabitants never had a chance, and if we look at the world today we face those social problems in worse ways than ever before. i think kara being called the angel of death for a social commentary of the death and suffering we see today. wasn’t that the whole point of the finale.

all this has happened before, and will happen again.

Karen Mills says:

I loved the Galactica 1980. It’s a good family wholesome good morals show.

Plus that ending with finding Earth is more credible, they try to speed up Earths Science and Humanity.

The Ron Moore one is all immoral, they distroy the technology. How we gonna learn from past mistakes if Adama burns all the books of history. No because of the distruction off all Science, we ended up making all the same mistakes the Capricans did.

We ended up enslaving people, bigotry, religions mumbo jumbo, and nukes and military robots aks Terminator soilders.

So Adama should have kept all the ships and Science, so that we could gide the primitive cavemen and teach them love and Universal Brotherhood, Like the Great Sikh Faith of India’s Punjab.

Michael says:

The show was really great??

When the Finale DVD is coming out??

Is there a chance of follow up??

What about http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1383701/

Any ideas?

791 says:

I liked the BSG ending pretty much. I only agree with the author about “Why the hell didn’t they give Roslin more blood from Hera” and I have another loose end? Why the hell would anyone abandon absolutely every piece of technology to live as a cave man?!? And in the series everyone chose that? Yeah, sure. But hey, it was much better this way, then spending another seasons with personal dramas and political debates ;) So I’m pretty cool with the ending.

Will says:

BSG needs to win a best drama Emmy for crying out loud. The finale was so satisfying and just perfect. I’ve read a lot of criticism about the finale and I just didn’t have the same reaction to it. I guess I understand some of it but ultimately I LOVED that Head Six/Baltar/Kara were meant to be mysterious and not extensively explained. I don’t see it as a copp out at all. And I’m an athiest too so it’s not about loving the whole God/angels concept…I’m just with the writers in that leaving an air of mystery to these characters actually enhanced the show.

I really have no complaints. I started watching the series over again last night. Scifi or another network needs to come up with a fantasy/scifi show to fill in the chasm that BSG left behind :(

Jon says:

I don’t particularly understand why so many people have gotten so into the whole Daniel thing, RDM admits it was presented in a way that sounded more significant than it actually was, but the Daniel information was only ever meant to do 2 things. 1) explain why, if the Final Five do not have numbers, the Significant Seven are numbered 1-6 and 8. 2) Create Speculation about what path the Cylons might have taken if there had been a voice to counteract Cavil’s hate mongering. And the information provided did EXACTLY that.

As to the Kara as Harbinger of Death, I think that is people, and this was probably deliberate on RDM and co’s part, misinterpreted what that meant. A Harbinger is a messenger, and she is Death’s messenger because she is dead. And, I think the interpretation might be correct that she is key in making the Cylons(some anyway) accept their own mortality. And the “Lead them all to their end” line is, in the best tradition of oracular prophecy, extremely vague. Them is never explained, it could be Cylons, Humans, or Both, and there is the fact that it says end, not death, end, which can mean something good or bad. Since she leads Humanity and the Cylon rebels to the end of their journey, I would say that prophecy is fulfilled nicely, and like all prophecies only really makes sense after it occurs, Kara’s assumption that it is a bad thing leads the viewer to assume that as well. Similarly, it should be remembered that the Pythian Prophecy about the dying leaders says that the leader will lead them to their new home, it doesn’t say Earth, it is Laura who assumes it means Earth and gets depressed when it doesn’t.

Just my two cents

Jon,

My 3rd cent: I think we got sucked into the Daniel thing because of the idea that RDM was dropping clues here and there, and we were scooping up clues, or what we thought or hoped were clues, to help us figure out this pickle pied puzzle they were giving us.

But yet, it was funny how he dropped a few things throughout the seasons, not meaning for them to have any real meaning at all, and the viewer picked up on the items and went with them.

His bad, our bad. Great combination of bad… or was it? Maybe he dropped intentional red herrings to drive us nuts, and keep us intrigued.

I say that because when you drop an item into a story, I presume you have editors that go over things and they would have caught discontinuities. Yet some of the bigger red herrings never got caught… so I think they were mind-frakking with us. (Do I add a k when pluralizing frak? Come to think of it, as I look at parallel examples, maybe not. Hmm. )

Derek says:

Hello Bruce S.,

Your article on the series finale of BSG is one the best BSG postmortems on the net.

From a writer’s perspective, one plot element I can’t understand is the ‘abandoning of technology.’ Since the show’s characters all grew up using – and needing – machines to live their lives, it’s logically inconceivable Adama, a practical man, would have gone along with the idea.

Having cast members wander off to the four corners of the earth with backpacks in hand (how many pairs of clean underwear is that?), like refugees from a bad production of the Sound of Music, totally undermines the ‘reality’ BSG prided itself on.

Love to hear what you have to say. Keep up the great posts.

Regards,

Derek S.

People, take note: Now that’s how you start a comment! :P

I wasn’t fond of the idea of that which is left of humanity turning their backs on technology.

Have you ever had a group of 4 or more people come to a decision and all of them comply with it? Nah. Never mind how many thousands of people might work out…

But hey, if humanity was so burned out, who knows. It’s all creative freedom and in the end, we still did love the ride BSG gave us.

Derek S. says:

Hello Bruce,

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I agree, BSG was quite a ride.

But, no one I know could drop out of modern life, and suddenly wander off into the wilderness and hope to live. Let alone a crew of thousands who aren’t exactly survivalists. They would be reduced to bumming flints off the Neanderthals within a week :>)

Regards,

Derek S.

Jon says:

If you read interviews with Ron Moore about the finale you will find out that he never intended that the humans were going to abandon technology all together. They decided not to build any cities or in any way to recreate what they once had, as that is what had apparently lead humans(and cylons) several times over to inadvertently destroyed themselves. They would still use what supplies and technology they had so as not to die off(which I agree, if they went the Ludite approach and abandoned all technology completely they would, very quickly) and as those supplies and equipment ran down and ran out they would have the opportunity to slowly wean themselves from technology. Since this life would be a difficult one(although by no means impossible) the ships were destroyed to prevent anyone from trying to find another inhabitable world to recreate their old society.

Also, if you look at the extended chronology of the series, they would end up losing their technology regardless. The previous two exodus, from Kobol to Earth and from Kobol to the Twelve Colonies, in both cases it took that people 2000+ years to get back to the point of creating artificial intelligence, meaning that even if they tried to reclaim their societies, they ended up losing most of their technology anyway. This is reinforced by what they set up on New Caprica. Granted, conditions on that planet were not ideal, but the tech level of that settlement was considerably less than their civilizations technical expertise and it seems likely that within a generation or two they would have run out of their original supplies and equipment and would have ended up just being farmers.

The issue is the fact that, regardless of a people’s actual technical expertise, you can’t create anything from nothing, even if you have the raw materials, you need the right equipment, which also cannot be fabricated from nothing. Technology is very much a house of cards, if one is unable to make a certain component or machine part than the next level of technology cannot be attained. It is therefore inevitable that the people settling on earth would have ended up, within a generation or two, once their existing machines succumbed to wear and tear, would have ended up farmers anyway. Therefore the importance of the decision not to recreate their civilization is not one of abandoning technology, but one of trying to remove from the minds of their descendants the drive to recreate what they once had, since they knew such ambition to improve technology had always led them into trouble.

Sorry for the long post.
Jon

Derek S. says:

Hello Jon,

Neat post, Jon. But, I have to say – and again, from a writer’s perspective – “if it’s not on the screen, it doesn’t matter what was on the page.”

The way the first US-run of the series finale of BSG presents itself is all we can go on. Interviews about Mr. Moore’s intentions aren’t part of the final product.

So, all the finale basically gives us are crewmembers strolling off into the sunset with only a duffelbag and a pair of good walking shoes. There’s no mention of any depots of stored food, weapons, shelter, clothing, medicine, etc.

From what is seen and heard in the finale, the logical conclusion is that the crew would have starved to death, as the Neanderthals were a hunter-gatherer society, and could not support the influx of tens of thousands of new mouths to feed.

Mr. Moore may well have ‘meant’ for some technology to be retained by the survivors, but that’s not what ended up in the final print.

My bet is he’ll correct, and then extend, the finale’s storyline with a SciFi miniseries once he gets out from under the high expectations of ‘Caprica.’ I wish him luck, as he’s clearly a creative and talented man.

Regards,

Derek S.

ChiefTom says:

The scene when we see Adama sitting on the rock talking to Roslin as the sun rises over the grave he made with his own hands… The words… the cinematography… the score…. perfect!!! I wept!! I still get choked up remembering it.

No screen moment has ever touched me the way that did.

Thank You Ron

ChiefTom:

Nice retrospect. Most were so caught up being distracted by the details falling out from the culmination of the mysteries in the story, that some missed some of the more poignant moments in the ending.

Thanks for reminding us Tom.

The Duke says:

The problems I had with it were not so much the ‘openess’ that Moore left but the stuff he got just plain wrong.

1) If the final five can regenerate, and age as Saul and Ellen did over their twenty years of knowing Bill Adama, then their resurrected bodies starting points would have to be at the age when Bill Adama first met Saul and Ellen.

The bodies in suspension couldn’t age with them or they wouldn’t last 2000 years.

But Ellen Tigh is resurrected at the SAME AGE as when she dies. That just doesn’t work. She should be younger. Saul had hair when he met Bill – 40 years of aging left him bald.

Ellen should have been 40 years younger. That’s a terminal flaw.

2) Saul Tigh fought the cylons. Really? So let’s get this straight. The cylons dropped him and Ellen onto Caprica with fake memories after the new skin jobs (inc. Cavil) wanted them to suffer and see the world destroyed, following the cessation of war.

The skin jobs were only built after the final five turned up and contacted the other cylons – during the war. So how the frak did Saul take part in combat alongside Bill, if at the same time he, Ellen and the other three were negotiating with the cylons to stop fighting so they could show them how to resurrect. Or did Bill never serve with Saul? How did that slip past? Bill constantly reminds us that Tigh has made tough calls in combat conditions. Was he doing that in peace time? They certainly wouldn’t have been fighting pirates, smugglers or terrorists with Battlestars (the only ships they’ve served on). You may have noticed the Somali pirates of late do not attack battleships with good reason.

If it were the case that they didn’t serve in combat, the military don’t just let people wander into service with no record and no peers vouching for them, saying “I fought the cylons”, no matter what they claim to remember.

3) ‘Destiny’. If Starbuck had a destiny to lead people to earth, she wouldn’t have died. On account of death being the final part of your destiny. Oedipus doesn’t die and THEN kill his dad and marry his mum. It has to happen sequentially. There were three ‘Fates’ in greek myth, the final one being the one who cuts of the thread of your life.

4) The important part about Sci-fi is the first part. Rational scientific explanations must exist for the genre to work, even if we have to fictionalise some of the rules (the second part). Otherwise it’s just fantasy, with magic and elves etc. In Star Wars ‘The Force’ is a simple, effective way of allowing fantastical elements to exist in a sci-fi setting.

Deus ex machina, the old greek way of having a god drop out of the wings to explain a nonsensical plot at least involved a god.

Moore/Eick have created Plot ex machina. They don’t specifically say there is a god/gods which would allow us to have a rational, albeit fictional, explanation for the magical, physical reappearance of Starbuck, her magic knowledge of earth, her magic Viper with its lock onto her actual dead body.

Leoben, who ‘knew’ she had a destiny, suddenly has no knowledge of this destiny he knew she had. Nothing. The other cylons knew she had a destiny too. But no.

What it seems they didn’t know, was that in the future she would magically reappear after dying, and magically save humanity with her father’s magical music. So. What was it they thought was going to happen? Why is no-one bothered? OK, Earth is frakked, they need to find another planet. Well a new Earth might just pop out of the ether mighten it? A new Starbuck did and everyone seems cool with that.

In summary, up until the final season, BSG had been consistently well written, well thought out and one of the best dramas ever acted out on the small screen.

Opportunities for connecting plots – Kara being the child of Daniel and inheriting her knowledge of Earth seems blindingly obvious – were just let go.

The ending wasn’t dark, as Olmos predicted, but it was obfuscated by lazy, lazy writing, with little care for viewers or the narrative.

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