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Paterick says:

@Ian….Wow. U mightve described one of the worst endings possible. It’s the biggest betrayal of all the hope and struggle everyone went through over the last 4 years (characters and fans).

What you described sounds like a crappy goosebumps ending. Unforgivable.

Vi7or says:

The first half of the finale was AWESOME! Couldn’t be better. But the last hour, I have mixed emotions about it. There was a lot that wasn’t explained about Starbuck, and how the song related to all that happened.. For example, the same song that “turned on” the final five is the coordinates to our Earth. Did the cylons from the 13th tribe know about our earth? Did the final five know about it? I don’t get it… I’m even ok about Starbuck being a ghost or an angel, but which earth did she find the first time? Could she know about all this because somehow she’s related to the final five

Sylar's Hunger Continues says:

The more I think about it, the more I feel ripped off. Ironically, the Cylons “have a plan,” but they didn’t reveal it to Moore (or us).

Gaping holes, unfulfilled or contradictory prophecies, potentially major plot threads dangled in front of us, never to be referred to again. Arbitrary/key characters flitting in and out of view. And, can I say it’s one of the WHITEST damn shows I’ve seen in quite a while.

To those who are combing footage as with The Sixth Sense to see if Kara “was really there,” don’t bother. She was definitely corporeal as opposed to the Imaginary Six & Baltar. This sucks, I have been cheated. There were no rules. Even “earth” was not “the real earth.” I’d rather recommend Farscape, B5, or hell, even Kyle XY for worthwhile sci fi lore.

Punt says:

That’s midtown Manhattan, not downtown, in the helicopter shot, but the street scenes were clearly filmed somewhere else (probably Vancouver or Toronto).

I thought the episode was mostly crap. After a season full of irritatingly slow episodes, the series suddenly becomes an action series for the first hour of the finale? And why is Hera so important to humans? I’m serious. Humans can reproduce with no problems. What does she matter to them?

that’s just the tip of the iceberg. What a horrible, horrible disappointment. This series really went off the rails in Season Three.

Longshanks says:

I don’t really understand the bashing of season 3,by some posters.

I rather liked season 3 and thought the first half of season 4 was pretty good.What I don’t like is how they ripped us off with that weak finale.

The show as a whole was great,but in the end,it went out with a whimper instead of a bang,like it should have.

Paterick says:

I think that anti-Season 3 mentality is fair. A lot of people try to forget how slow, annoying and distracting New Caprica was. It was something introduced in the last 10 minutes of the Season 2 finale and changed everything for what felt like, absolutely no reason….I mean come on, in 2 minutes they jumped forward from this is a stupid idea that got through on bullshit to ‘Hey there’s the cylons.’

I think people forget that because even though the episodes weren’t that great AT ALL, but at least the ideas were/ There was the one about the suicide bombings that had everyone saying wow Galactica is about the real world. Then there was the murder of Ellen Tigh, that made people say damn I can’t exactly remember why I hated her anymore.

But then there were REALLY annoying parts of Season 3, like every time you had the cylons bickering over what to do with the humans. That arc of D’eanna: the most annoying cylon there ever was sucked. That plotline of Kat: the most annoying viper pilot there ever was sucked even more.

But then the haters of Season 3, find it easy to forget the episode when they hunted down collaborators back on Galactica or the gorgeous Boxing episode.

Season 3 had a lot of small ideas that came into their own with great writing. Those were episodes that didn’t really move the bigger plot, but managed to telle everyone a story worth hearing: like episode 16 about unsafe work conditions.

Also there was the death of Starbuck which came out as half a great episode with really strong acting and half what the f are you guys doing? Of course we didn’t know nearly every Starbuck episode after that would be like this, and this was actually the best out of all of them.

And really. How did you forget the Trial of Gaius Baltar, where Baltar does the last great things his character will do for an entire year until the finale.

All in All. I think Season 3 was pretty great. It wasn’t incredible like Season 1 & 2, but still it was great.

And I guess, it did start a downward trend for the show, that I think would’ve picked up if they had a season 5 and held off their truce with the Cylons a bit. (Or at least fought with the anti-truce Cylons just ONCE before the end of the show.

David says:

The show “jumped the shark” when it decided to randomly pick 5 characters to be the “final 5″. No show has REEKED of making it up on the fly more than this. First couple seasons were great… the rest was cliche sci-fi garbage. Massively disappointing. The “angels” explanation was a copout. They abandoned everything that made it popular and turned it into a bunch of mystic nonsense.

Paterick says:

all these angry pessimists are starting to turn me. I’m thinkin that Battlestars 1st two seasons built enough epic good will and awe that anything that just reminded them of that early social politic genius. But that’s every show. For some reason though, in the end this decided it didn’t need a main character

Ian says:

@Paterick – Meh, I don’t really care if you like it or not. It’s not really that different than the ending we got… all humans end up being at least partially Cylon and the cycle is likely to repeat again.

The difference is that my ending wold account for WHY the cycle would repeat again without relying on silly mysticism and a cop-out solution using angels, which is REALLY a complete betrayal of everything the series stood for because it meant that nothing humanity did affected, in any way, the eventual outcome. Had “god” not intervened, humanity would have been wiped out, and the second something that, according to myth and superstition, has that kind of power is on your side, how can you possibly lose?

Ian says:

@Paterick – Oh, and exactly what “hope and struggle” have the fans been through over the past four years?!?!? your comment makes no sense.

Paterick says:

@Ian…wow. Can you even hear yourself?

“There’s no real difference, between the ending we got (everyone settling spread out across the world, learning from the mistake they made on New Caprica) and your ending ([Slaughter] everyone, forty thousand people, and leave maybe 10 or 15 of them alive, because 12 is a religious number and that was just a cute idea you had once).

Oh, and if that isn’t enough how about those 12 who are still alive decide to sacrifice any humanity they have left (after they wouldn’t even let the cylons upgrade their ships) and clone themselves ad nauseum. Because not much else gets a society going more than having about 6 different people to choose to make kids with on account of incest within half a generation is a great frist step for a new world.

I think the ideas they were trying to get across are that humanity has always been outpaced by technology, and what makes life real is the soul among other facets of humanity (death, free will, family). The show could’ve been called BSG: Redemption of the Cylon, because it’s always been about what makes them different from us, and how they slowly got all the things that made us human.

Every time the cylons became more human, humanity got closer to finding New Earth, until finally the most impossible happens (the biggest holdout against humanity, Cavil, fully gives in to his pride and free will when he decides better to kill himself with no return possible than to give them the satisfaction).

Oh and by hope and struggle, I’m talking about the very FIRST episode of frakkin series when Roslin decided it was important to know how many people were left [the hope] after all those people ‘died’ on that civilian ship [the struggle] and everything else that happened to their population. That celestial guidance to New Earth mixed with the war for survival on their part.

I’m sorry if you didn’t catch on that Battlestar Galactica was about hope and struggle.

And besides, we didn’t even think we were getting a finale when the strike kept throwing rumors that the show was dead in the water as well as all the news circa season one that said, yea Galactica is the best scifi in years, but barely anyone is watching…yea. Hope and struggle.

Gary says:

Well said Patrick.
hope and struggle.
I like it.

John "Kahless" Taylor says:

WOW! I didn’t know there were soo many people on this site that hated religion. News flash! The show (original concept) was created by a man that was an LDS (Latter-Day Saint (Mormon)). Kobol is an anagram of Kolob, the star system they believe the Kingdom of God is.

As for the finale, I liked it but thought more explanation was needed, especially for Kara. The battle was epic, in my opinion, and the song being the key to earth’s location was obvious to me. Like some have said, the show was mostly boring but the finale had lots of action. I’ve seen a lot worse endings (*cough* Enterprise *cough*) and like some have said, this finale must have had an impact because of all the discussion.

JOHN: Don’t go there. this is an entertainment site and we aren’t about attacking others likes and dislikes.

Not cool.

Ian says:

Paterick… you amaze me; you consistently miss my points at every possible turn, and a good part of it is because you AREN’T READING WHAT I’M WRITING.

CHILL… it’s a god-damn TV show with two excellent seasons, two mediocre seasons and a piss-poor finale. It’s nothing more.

Now let’s see where you went so hideously wrong in interpreting my last message:

Firstly, thank you Captain Obvious! The show has been about hope and struggle and I’m amazed you’re such an apologist for the crap Moore shoveled at us that you can’t see that the ending I proposed does nothing to diminish that.

The destruction of humanity in my ending, leaving only twelve survivors (which, btw, is a completely arbitrary number that fits well with the mythos of BSG where 12 is a number that crops up regularly… 12 colonies, 12 models, 12 notes, etc. nothing more… nothing cute and certainly nothing religious about it. Assume I said 17 if it makes you happy.

Secondly, if humanity were reduced to such a small number, cloning would be pretty much the only hope of the species surviving. Natural reproduction would lead to inbreeding, so it would have to be prevented, perhaps through sterility (much like the humanoid Cylons when we first encountered them). Given the choice between complete extinction and survival through cloning, I can absolutely guarantee you that humanity would choose cloning every time. Historically, humanity has ALWAYS chosen quantity of life over quality of life, and faced with extinction we’d make the same choice we always do.

As for the hope and struggle part… you honestly think that being forced to survive in space using cloning to keep your species alive WOULDN’T be a struggle? Looking at it from the Cylon point of view, do you think rebuilding the 12 colonies would be EASY following the level of destruction they suffered?!?!?! There’s plenty of room for struggle and for hope in both scenarios.

Again, on the topic of technology outpacing humanity… how does my ending NOT address this issue… that’s precisely what it’s all about! Moore’s ending completely eliminates this very point because it ends up saying that humanity, technology, struggle, hope are all completely IRRELEVANT because all problems can be fixed with the suitable application of a few periods of divine intervention… now THAT is a hopeless existence! Look at it another way… in the finale, had there NOT been some form of divine intervention, humanity WOULD have died out. As for the soul… there’s no such thing; it’s a silly fairy tale from a silly book of fairy tales. On the one hand you’re arguing a humanist point of view and on the other you’re arguing a spiritual point of view. They don’t go hand in hand.

On your point about Cavil… you clearly haven’t read the follow-up interview with Ronald Moore where he said:

“Cavil killing himself came from Dean Stockwell, to be honest. As scripted, in that climactic battle in CIC, Tigh was going to grab Cavil and fling him over the edge of the upper level, and he was going to fall to his death. Dean called me himself and said, ‘I just really think that in that moment, Cavil would realize the jig is up and it’s all hopeless and just put a gun in his mouth and shoot himself.’ And I just said, ‘Okay.’”

… so your interpretation is absolutely incorrect, according to Moore. In the same interview, the REASON Cavil felt a sense of hopelessness is because Racetrack’s nukes DESTROYED the colony; this, of course, wasn’t clear because they completely SCREWED UP THE EDIT.

As for my question to you about hope & struggle… you had said the _VIEWERS_ went through hope and struggle, which is clearly utter nonsense. What struggle did you go through because of the writer’s strike?

Ian, while I agree with your assessments of what was wrong with the finale in your first comment, your condescending, anti-religious cracks are getting on my nerves.

Vic

Ian says:

Vic – Then you can understand how the pro-religion comments are getting on mine. :)

@Ian

Point taken. However there were obvious religious overtones throughout the series. And you should know you are discussing this on one of the very few movie sites that overall have a Conservative bent to them.

There are PLENTY of other movie sites out there where the majority of commenters/writers share your viewpoint. :-D

So keep in mind what you might toss out there without a thought on another site where you’d get plenty of agreement might be considered a trollish comment here.

Best regards,

Vic

Ian says:

Vic – Funny you should make that comment. As matter of fact, I am a conservative, but in most parts of the world, outside America, conservative and religious do not necessarily go hand in hand.

@Ian

Interesting. Well just know that this is my site and I’m a Christian, so I don’t take kindly to comments calling the soul a fairy tale from a silly book of fairy tales or referring to God as an imaginary, wish-granting man in the sky. I find it offensive and no one has referred to athiests in an insulting manner.

Vic

Ian says:

Meh… we’re talking about a TV show. I couldn’t care less about your religion.

Since that was the basic flaw in the finale, it’s a valid point to express why I didn’t like it… because it was a silly way to end the show.

Oh, and as for the “no one has referred to atheists in an insulting manner”… where were you with this comment:

Lord Garth, Formerly of Izar said,
March 22nd, 2009

where he referred to atheists as “emo-punks”… interesting how you managed to miss that one.

@Ian

Whatever, once again the usual condescension, which I’m used to from folks like you. As to “missing” that comment, I did a page search on the word “athiest” and nothing came up. I read hundreds of comments a day on this site and go through hundreds more spam comments looking for valid ones that might be incorrectly flagged.

What’s silly to you is obviously not silly to others, but you obviously don’t care what others think and have no problem insulting them since you’re so obviously superior to other folks.

Vic

Ian says:

The reason nothing came up is because the word is spelled, “atheist”, not “athiest”

My last comment wasn’t condescending; I simply pointed out that I’m talking about a TV show and you’re talking about religion… I couldn’t care less about the religion, but I do care about the discussion of the TV show.

Your last comment, ending the way it did, was clearly condescending, though. Pity.

What’s good for the goose, etc., etc.

Vic

Folks, I’ve seen the religious over and under tones and have managed to successfully write about the show without needing to refer to the issue.

It isn’t hard. Really.

John "Kahless" Taylor says:

@Bruce
Were you referring to me attacking someone’s likes and dislikes? I didn’t mean to attack, I was just pointing out that the original BSG was created by a religious man and had religious overtones. Since it did, one would expect the new BSG to have religious overtones. That’s all.

I apologize if it sounded like I was attacking someone.

No JOHN, I wasn’t looking in your direction. you’re fine. Thanks though for your thoughtfulness.

-B

Paterick says:

Alright apparently my reply to yours was a little too harsh, so let me try and tone it down some.

Paterick says:

Alright, I’m either banned from posting anything longer than a few sentences or they filtered out some of the words I used, even though I took out most of the hot words…

Paterick says:

@Ian

Off the bat, I thought it was cute that you’d pick the number 12, when you try so hard to remove religion from a religious show.

I mean…humans have always ‘chosen’ quantity of life over quality of life? There’s no choice in it, it’s life. You can’t maintain that a person is gonna be comfortable and safe for their 70 years of life, but you can maintain that more times than not, if a man and a woman get together, life Will happen.

It’s actually INhuman to choose quality of life over quantity of life. That’s why there were billions of people on the 12 colonies. The last time I remember humans choosing quality of life over quantity of life was the Germans, 70 years ago. and they were just trying to find the super-man.

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