There’s been a fair amount of discussion online regarding the newly redesigned batsuit from the Batman Begins sequel: The Dark Knight, so I thought I would put images of the two suits up side by side for comparison.
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There seem to be three schools of thought on this:
1. Folks who are displeased that the batsuit in the movies continues to stay away from the comics’ classic “grey tights” look.
2. People who don’t mind the armored look, but think the execution is too “busy.”
3. People who think the new suit looks great and reflects a real-world concept of a character like Batman.
Personally I fall into category #3, but I can understand the arguments of those in camps #1 and #2 and each one has valid points.
For the “classic” argument you have of course the fact that Batman should look like the Batman that inspired the movies. If it worked in the comics it should be good enough for the movies, and it’s sacrilege to make radical changes to such an iconic costume. There is also the argument that having a non-armored Batman adds to the fear/mystique quality of his reputation among criminals. On the other side one could argue that in the real world setting that Christopher Nolan has created for the film, that wearing nothing more than a thin garment just isn’t realistic or believable for a non-super-powered guy to go around fighting criminals with automatic weapons and psychopaths. The suit from Batman Begins, although rubbery looking, was probably the closest in overall look to the comics version than in any other Batman movie. If you want to talk “criminal intimidation factor”, I think the new suit has it in spades.
The second argument could be debated until the cows come home: Give the assignment with some vague parameters like “armored”, “ninja” or “modern samurai” to 10 costume/VFX designers and you’ll end up with 10 completely different looks for the costume. It just comes down to a subjective choice by the director of what he likes and how it fits into the universe he’s created. I think that while the costume in the first Nolan film was a departure from the previous movies, the design was still heavily influenced by what came before.
The third group says “hey, the costume looks great and realistic.” The chain-mail underneath the armor looks more breathable and flexible, and the more segmented the armored plates are across the costume, the more mobility Batman has when fighting, which to me is extremely important for a character whose main method of combat is hand to hand. This is why I’m also happy to see a cowl that finally allows him to turn his head from side to side. This new costume looks like the first real ground-up redesign of a Batman movie costume and with the exception that it would probably take 3 hours to put on, it’s probably the most realistic design for a guy who might do what Batman does in the real world.
I’d love to hear your thoughts on the above points!
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103 Comments
Thanks, I try not to say anything unless I get my facts staight. But your arguments are valid as to why you would like to see it more like the comixs. Everyone else does seem to keep a close relationship with their comic counterparts. I just think that since the bat suit is supposed to be like a kevlar type of armor. It may be hard to potray it as being both armor and a fabric type at the same time. So they just opted for it to be more of armor then anything else.
Me I am just happy he can move his head from side to side. It was hard for me to think he could effectivly fight with out being able to swivel his head. I also like the sleek look, it looks more flexible and like he can do more damage. I am sure that somone designed a suit to be more like the comix but for some reason they may have chose to go for the more armor type suit. And who knows maybe in the third that is what he will have. It seems like they are giving him a reason as to why everything he gets it evolves to make him a better crime fighter. They may have the next suit designed to look like the one in the comics who knows.
I realize the last post hasn’t been for a couple weeks now, but I was just directed here when looking for pics concerning The Dark Knight. I’m not really sure which group I fall in, because I think they change the Batman costume too often, but then again, it makes sense if the storyline requires a new suit…it’s been rumored that the Batmobile is blown up at some point, hence the Batpod. I’ve even read that Wayne is initially reluctant about the changes (both costume and to the Batpod) but quickly adapts. I can’t tell you where I read this info because I was really bored at work today so I was just clicking around looking at random info about the movie.
Does the new suit remind anyone of the Master Chief Spartan armor from the Halo series? That’s the first thing that came to mind when I saw it. Maybe they’ll use this as a base model for the Halo movie that’s being planned.
Anyways, I think the new suit looks good, and as many have said, I’m so glad he’ll be able to turn his head to talk/look at someone without having to move his shoulders with it…that always made me laugh a little inside.
Also, we have to remember that although we may all die-hard Batman fans, the movie has to appeal to the masses, who are unfortunately not die-hard fans. So the armor has to make sense to the mass audience, not just to those of us who follow the details of the Batman storylines. It’s just basic marketing, and even though it can hold back a potentially fantastic fan-oriented movie, it’s needed if the movie will make the big money that they are aiming for. As much as it sucks to say this, in the end, the only thing that corporate studios use to determine a movie’s success is the number of digits following a dollar sign, not how well it was made.
I’m from “camp 2″ but I think the Batman Begins suit was pretty efficent in looking like a funtional protective garment without being too “suit-of-armor”-y. My one fault with it was the head which he really couldn’t turn from side to side very well at all. They fixed this problem with the Dark Knight suit but then went a tiny bit overboard on the “Over armoured” concept. So my ideal suit would basicly be the BB suit with the DK head.
the costume in dark knight is a much needed improvement over batman begins. dark knight looked way too bulky for him to move and way too heavy for him to glide on cloth. the new one look smaller but the mask still looks messed up small jaw line that makes the head look to big, not to mention it all looked like it was made out of playdoe, the old cowl had peoblems with the turning of the neck but it looked alot more iconic, dangerous, and inhuman rather than a bloke who fell into a vat of rubber and was created by blue peter.
A Few Points.
1. The Dark Knight. This suit looks like a suit of armour to me, and rightly it should. The suit is a visual reference to the title and themes of this movie, while at the same time providing a far more practical and realistic crime fighting suit in keping with the real world style of these movies.
2. Of all the batsuits this seems the best, he looks far more dangerous in this one. You’re no longer safe if you’re standing beside the guy, he can turn his head to see you. He can move.
3.Also this suit seems far more comfortable than any of the previous vesions a huge bonus for the actor and stunt men.
4. Faithfullness to source material. Black cape, Black cowl, black gloves (inc. Gauntlets) and black boots. Yellow utility belt.
All in all they design crew acomplished alot with this suit.
Note to comics purists: Bob Kane didn’t seem to mind the fact that the batsuit in the first Batman movie was all black (nor did he grumble about the yellow crest either and that wasn’t in his original design)and I think if anyone should have a right to grumble it’d be him. He understood that the different media called for different approaches. I never understand purists. I feel they just limit their scope on things.
Bob Kane never complained much about ANY Batman related product,he was always very happy that his character was so popular and being noticed.
Kinda like Stan Lee…..
More or less my point exactly, only in far fewer words. Well done. That’s exactly the way the fans should see it and keep personal character preferences just that, and not get annoyed if someone elses are different.
Wait now don’t anybody get me wrong, I love the grey suit from the comics and I’d have nothing against a movie featuring it at all, so long as it would be true to the story the movie’s trying to tell.
Well…..when you’re a creator of something you’re usually flattered that someone is doing SOMETHING with your character and probably won’t complain so not to be seen as ungrateful. If you’re a fan it’s a little different. I think fans should complain when a producer or someone does something that goes against the hero’s character or is in direct violation of the status quo of the comic book continuity of the character. If they get those things right than anything else should be secondary if mentioned at all.
Yeah,I too love the black and grey suit from the comix and personally would LOVE to see something similar on film someday,it doesn’t have to be tights but it doesn’t have to be plastic/rubber either,when adapting a Batman comix style suit it shouldn’t be “Adam West VS Tim Burton”,there are many different types of material that the costume makers can use,if you’ve ever seen one of the catalogues that they order their materials from then you know that there are hundreds of material options,not just Peter Pan tights or black rubber.
Anyway.
I agree with your comment. Thank you for being polite.
Having read through nearly all these comments and replies I find it kind of ironic to think that, in the popular mind of the next few years, the Batsuits of these films are probably going to become the ‘classic’ and the iconic suits for the majority of people. Think about it: How many people will see the next film(s) and compare this to the amount of people who read the comics regularly. To most people the grey and black, or blue and black, ‘tights’ and bright yellow bat emblem of the comics, cartoons and earlier films will seem crass or ridiculous in the way some people seem to see the new Dark Knight suit.
My own feelings? I think the picture of Batman in The Dark Knight is more threatening than BB. I think it’s that you can’t see his eyes yet he seems to be looking at you… I feel the knuckle dusters attached to the gloves are a nice touch and obviously the head mobility can only be counted as a good thing. I haven’t seen enough footage of the new film to really say how well this will work in the film so it could turn out badly. We’ll all just have to wait and see.
The one thing I will say for the fans who think the films should stick closer to the comic books is that in the comic books, Batman was more of creature than in the film incarnations. In ‘Batman’ and ‘Batman Forever’ it came across as a man in a suit. I think Bale does well as Batman in Begins and seems to get across the anger etc of the character. But the Batman in all film incarnations doesn’t quite hit the level of creature you get in some of the comics and cartoons. I mean that Batman is able to dodge bullets and disappear/reappear without much in the way of an explanation which is a sad thing to lose in the films.
Iron Man has been mentioned once or twice before and I think that in comparing the way the IM film uses the suit of the comics to BB and TDK overlooks that fact that both films are trying to get across the personalities of the heroes. IM can stay close to the comics because Stark is a playboy and the flashy colours of the IM suit work. BB and TDK are a reflection of Bruce who has lost everything and immersed himself in fear and terror. And how many people were/are afraid of the dark?
In Frank Miller’s Dark Knight Returns, batman has a target on his chest (the bright yellow and black batsymbol) to direct enemy gunfire there, because it’s one of the only places he can armour and still maintain freedom of movement.
Also I read/heard somewhere (maybe it was Alan Moore?) that batman uses misdirection rather than armour- he billows out his cape and makes the bad guys shoot at places his body is not.
All pretty cool, but in real life I wouldn’t rely on stuff like that to keep me safe.
There are several referances to the cape being used as a distraction in the comics, but in BB the main reason is for theatrical effect AND as a practical means for navigating Gotham’s vast skyline. Of course the idea of providing an armoured target is fine except of course anyone with any knowledge of batman would know that the crest is on his chest and would aim above the damn thing, knowing his head’s up there somewhere. The monochrome suit in these movies (it’s not actually black, more of a slate grey really) provides pretty good camo in the urban jungle that is Gotham. Considering that most guys are not a good shoot with a gun, isn’t best not to provide a target at all? Also it’s important to remember that in BB, and also in TDK Batman does seem to move about far more quickly, picking off his targets one at a time, torturing them with fear and, if instead of becoming separated the criminals bunch together, he also proves to be adept at some extreamly violent crowd control. My point here is that from the criminal’s POV, you don’t get to see him for very long. In fact all you’re likely to remember from the “battle” is this huge winged shape with horns or pointed ears that descended from the sky and kicked the crap out of you in a whirl of fists, elbows, headbuts etc.
Description of Your Assailant:
Big, black, with wings and stuff and it f**king hurt!
CB you’re bang on! Well said.
Just on another point to anyone who wishes the suit was more like the comics, in the short film “Dead End” there is the ‘classic’ comic book’s suit and Batman… well, he looks kinda fat. Unlike the comics the fabric doesn’t hug the body and the Batman in ‘Dead End’ doesn’t look as physically impressive. While he could beat the crap out of a me, I wouldn’t be afraid of him.
I don’t think the black/grey combo would work the world Batman is in in the movies, however, I disagree with the fact that the more segmented the armor pieces are across the suit the more flexibility Batman would have. Lets look just at his leg, the thigh piece to have over 10 armor piece for it, there aren’t 9 joints in your thigh, it looks like they made a piece of armor for each muscle in his thigh as opposed to joints. I agree the segmented pieces improve flexibility, but to segment the armor that much makes it look too busy and makes me feel its not as protective as it could be, while retaining flexibility
You guys only say the black and gray would not work becaue it hasn’t been done yet and are used to the Burton tradition.
Kel, as I’m sure you probably already know, they actually did try the grey/black combo in the short film “Batman: Dead End” and it just didn’t look right. While the budget for that film was obviously a lot smaller than for “The Dark Knight”, but they could have put him in all black if they wanted. My point is that even though it would be closer to the comics for him to be in black/grey, it just wouldn’t make sense in the slightly more realistic world they’re portraying in TDK.
Dude…I totaly agree with you,but I don’t like the new mask…it doesn’t look as intimidating as the one used in Batman Begins…I like the suit though,it allows Batman to move freely,which is important to keep the magic around the character.But is I said,I liked the Batman Begins mask better than this one,this new mask looks like the ones used in the Burton/Schumacher movies…and you could tell that it was only a guy with a mask on,in begins you can see the difference betweeen Bruce Wayne and Batman…they don’t eve look like the same person,well,that actually happens with the new mask aswell,but this one seems…not real enough,if you know what I mean.Well,nuff’ said.
Im going to enjoy the movie anyways no matter what the costume looks like xD.
the worst thing about the suits in the movies is that they do not resemble anything that avid comic books fans would expect. batman is supposed to be dark and mysterious, extremely good at hand-to-hand combat and a brilliant detective. from a physique point of view, batman is supposed to be very tall and built. also, he is extremely fast and very silent. now, with all the armour and a very crappy looking cape and cowl, how is he going to instil fear and fight crime? how will he move.. batman never stops bullets with his suit.. he dodges bullets using his brain.. being one step ahead of his enemies all the time.. the suit is not required to prtect him from bullets!!
i think a dark and more mysterious, less ‘robo-cop’ look is necessary and i agree with Adrian.. the movie batman is nothing like what batman comic fans would expect.. it relly does not matter what he would be like in reality.. because in reality, he would not exist!! its just not possible.. so if that is impossible, why make his suit 21st century compatible??
Xavi, you have to remember that there are more people than just “avid comic book fans” who are going to see this movie. While I agree the armor plating might be a little over the top, I think it’s needed in order for it to be believable to the average movie-goer. Batman comic fans know that he doesn’t need the armor in order to beat the bad guys, but there are a lot more people who know little to nothing about the character, and are going to think “I don’t get it, why didn’t they just shoot him in the chest/head/wherever?” Unfortunately, we live in a world of critics that will exploit even the smallest flaw in a movie, so when trying to create a live-action Batman, you have to consider what the non-fanatic critic will think.
And let’s be honest, Batman is one of those characters that’s not exactly 100% believable. Not many people can dodge a single bullet, let alone hundreds being fired simultaneously. My point is, even in the wildest of fantasy worlds where a kung-fu trained billionaire fights crime in a incredibly corrupt city hardly worth saving in the first place, there has to be something mildly realistic so that the viewer of said fantasy world can feel some sort of connection. Is it perfectly in line with the comics, no, but there isn’t a single comic book movie to date that’s done so. Batman’s kryptonite (for lack of a better way to put it) is the fact that he’s just a regular human that is in great physical shape. He doesn’t have super strength, agility, speed, intelligence, endurance, or any kind of super powers whatsoever. If he gets hit by a bullet, he could die, thus he needs a top of the line batsuit to protect him as much as possible. No one can look in all directions at once. So honestly ask yourself, if you are Bruce Wayne, billionaire industrialist with all kinds of great techno-gadgets at your disposal, and you have the choice between a cloth costume or an armored suit with which you have to face off against a completely psychotic, gun/knife wielding Joker, which one are you going to choose? Keep in mind Batman is a non-lethal hero, so he has to subdue his opponents with as few severe injuries to them as possible, and that’s not easy when they’re firing a seemingly endless barrage of bullets at you.
Also, yes, we all know he’s a stealthy ninja, but it’s been 3 years since the last movie, you’re average movie-goer has probably forgotten about that by now. I’ve said it before, unfortunately it’s about pleasing the masses, not just the die-hard fans.
excellent points Mike.. and i do agree with u on most parts. however, it just pains me to see ‘Batman’ look nohing like ‘Batman’ in the movies.. all the movies..
if u check up, none of the Batman movies have been as huge a hit as expected.. and what, now.. there have been 7 or 8 Batman movies.. look at Ironman. and the money that movie has made.. one of the main reasons is that the movie makers did not deviate so much from the original concept..or suit.. yes he has many suit designs.. but the one in the movie is one from the comics.
therefore, i am sure that if the current Batman movie makers do make a character that is in line with the comic books.. and if he looks more like his DC universe self (which ever self)it would be much better.. not just for the comic book fans, but the mass movie goers in general.. one of the main reasons why he is a superhero in the first place is his ability to do ’super’ natural things even though he is human.. and the very fact that he can do the unthinkable with what he’s got.. and i dont think that includes full body armour. if u have to make it more believeale as u say for the mass, change the suit completely.. like they did for Batman of the Future.. but dont make the suit look something like the original.. yet completely different.. i just dont see the point.
i mean.. if u look at it closely, if i was a billionaire industrialist like Bruce Wayne, in the real world.. i would noteven think of putting on a Batsuit.. its just ridiculous!! but if i did.. it would be exactly like the comics. otherwise.. any tom, dick or harry can put on the Batsuit and be Batman..
My point is BW is Batman because of his own ablilities… its not the suit. unfortunately, u may be right whe u say the mass audience just might not get this.. its just sad
Probably sad that I’ve kept up with the addition of posts since the first one..
I address the purists! Being an artist comes with understanding and appreciation of character design in comics; in that, they have to design costumes that are quickily recognized yet easy to draw– they put out one of these a month! I’m sure many of The Bat’s artists would’ve loved to have detail like that in his suit, but can you imagine remembering all of that and having to draw it every panel? It would get way to clustered and painstaking.
We keep calling the comic origin people purists, so is the other side of the argument protestants? =P
Anyway, it’s argued that they’re adapting it to a “real world” setting. Correct me if I’m wrong, but in context to the comic, the world The Batman lives in is very much real– to the characters. Why are we forcing The Bat into our world when he has a nice one of his own? In Superman Returns they had Kryptonite, so why can’t Gotham have the capabilities of making awesome bulletproof, fireproof, shockproof, ect, ect suits? Kind of a sucker punch for Bruce: “Sorry, we’re too stupid to have that kind of technology, so you can’t have it either.”
On my own note, the only changes I’d make to the new comic are:
- My original argument ( symbol needs to be more pronounced– you should have to LOOK for a SYMBOL! )
- Cape needs to start on his chest and drape over his shoulders, that was a very unique thing in his character design
- Ears need to be taller/more noticeabl ( I don’t know about you guys, but it was the ears that made his shadow scary as hell in the comics )
- White glass in eyes! Please! This is so easy to do and adds so much.
To whomever still reads these comments, be nice =)
Rev
Whoops! Teach me to proofread. That last little segment needs to be “On my own note… to the new suit are:”
And the first point should be “You should NOT have to look for a symbol.”
Sorry for double post, I usually just let mistakes fly, but those two kind of change the understanding completely.
Rev
I agree Xavi, it does suck that the masses wouldn’t get it. Even worse is that it’s like someone else said – these are the suits that are going to be remembered in the future as “classic”. Anyways, I just read recently somewhere that Christian Bale didn’t bulk up as much for TDK as he did for BB because in the movie Bruce redesigns the suit from BB in order to have more flexibility. So I’m thinking they’ll have an explanation for the change, like Bats gets the crud kicked out of him early in the movie due to lack of being able to turn his head or something, which I think would be a semi-humorous nod to fans everywhere.
Oddly enough, I’ve been thinking about the movie all day and how they could incorporate the grey/black into a live action flick and have him still look like a bad ass (It was a very slow day at work today). I really don’t think it would have to be that big of a change, just lighten up the chest and legs a few shades to make it like a dark grey, keep the bat symbol black and there you have it.
As for the armor plating, I was thinking maybe they did it because they need something to draw the kids in so they’d buy the inevitable line of toys that will be hitting stores soon. A plain black and grey suit wouldn’t be all that appealing, but an armor plated suit would certainly get a kid’s attention. I mean, that’s the first thing I thought when they introduced the Batpod. I think we all know that’s going to be another toy kids will have to have, because they already have the same batmobile from BB.
Also, you mentioned Iron Man, and I agree with what someone said a while back. It’s easy to keep the IM suit the same because Tony Stark is flashy and arrogant, so red & gold works well. I think Iron Man and Batman are in two completely separate ballparks when comparing the movies. IM had the ability to be light, fun, and as John Favreau put it “rock n’ roll”. It had it’s dramatic action sequences, but for the most part it was just a fun movie to watch. Batman on the other hand is forced into being dramatic and serious because that’s who Batman is. He’s in bad-ass mode 24 hours a day, he doesn’t have time for smart-ass, sarcastic one-liners, he’s got bad guys and their henchmen to beat up. Which brings us to another major difference. Batman is usually fighting off several dudes at once, so he’s forced to use “deception and theatricality”, while Iron Man is usually hanging out in One-on-Onesville. IM has the time to be a little flashy because even though he has the technology to take on lot of people at once, he’s usually just taking on just one super powered bad guy at a time.
Anyways, I’m not here to compare and contrast, because I really think both IM and Batman are great for their own reasons. I hope no one got the impression I was trying to be a prick about any of this. No matter how the suit looks, I think the big show stealer is going to be Heath Ledger’s Joker. I was skeptical at first, but I saw another trailer recently and he seemed pretty convincing. I like the direction they went in with the character instead of keeping him like Jack Nicholson’s Joker. I liked his Joker, but he was more an eccentric Joker than psychotic Joker, and I think that was so kids wouldn’t have nightmares. I think this one has the potential to do so.
Sorry all my posts are so long, I get on a roll and I just keep going sometimes.
Oh, and Rev, I think they gave Bruce some leeway in Batman Begins with the use of technology. I mean, a cape that turns into glider wings when electricity is introduced? Believable, but just barely. And let’s not forget the zip line that pulled Batman (who has to be at least 200 lbs) into the sky with ease from the utility belt on his waist (remember in the movie he cut off the shoulder straps attached to the belt). And some of the things he did during the chase sequence in the Batmobile, well, lets just say they the structural engineering on those buildings he was driving on was fantastic!
None the less, it doesn’t have to be completely believable, at least not to me. I go to these movies to watch my childhood heroes kick ass first and ask questions later. To be honest, I kind of hate the people that sit there right after a movie and pick apart it’s flaws because all I’m thinking is “THAT WAS SO FREAKING AWESOME, HOW COULD YOU THINK OTHERWISE?”
The armour plating is just to keep kids interested? Boy are you giving the film makers very little credit here. Listen as far as I can tell, Christopher Nolan (the director of TDK) has little or no interest in how the toys of this movie sell. That’s Warner Bros. Department. He is focused on how good his movie is, not so much on how well the merchantising goes.
Secondly The first Batman movie wasn’t geared towards kids at all, nor the second for that matter, teenagers perhaps but not kids. and who the hell cares about giving teenagers nightmares anyway. Trust me that was the last thing on Tim’s mind. On the other hand Batman Forever and Batman & Robin were specifically designed to meet that demographic (which is why even as a “kid” I thought they were crap).
By the way memory cloth and it’s aplications have been studied by the US military for years. Also in regards to you’re batmobile/harness comments. BB and TDK see the batman character brought into the movie world which is a world of hyper-realism (to steal a phrase from Jim Cameron). A world where everything thing is exaggerated for the story. Sure Bruce wouldn’t become Batman in the real world, but he does in the movie world, sure few buildings could support the batmobile, but they can in the movie world etc. Anyway Isn’t most of the stuff in Ironman way more far fetched?
The reason for the armour is simple. Batman’s a smart guy, right? Sure he’s trained himself to be the most accomplished person in the world at hand-to-hand combat, stealth etc. But he’d be one hell of an idiot to just go out there into this hyper-realistic world in only a skin tight fabric suit. He’s smart enough to know that no matter how accomplished he is that you can’t prepare for every eventuality and that the best that anyonan do is stack the odds in their favour, and for him wouldn’t that include wearing and armoured suit… if only “just in case”?
Wow CB, I don’t think you read any of my other comments. My last gesture that the armor could just be a marketing tactic for kids was just merely because I was looking for other reasons besides the obvious. Like I said at the end of my last comment, it doesn’t have to be completely believable to me, I go to these movies knowing it’s a fantasy “hyper-realistic” world where a lot of the things might not be possible, but I still very much enjoy them.
If you read any of my other comments, I’ve been defending the armor, thinking along the same lines as you, that if I were him I’d be wearing that suit too “just in case”. I think it makes sense in the semi-realistic world they’re trying to portray.
I’m not really sure why you seemed to take such offense to my comment, bc I tried to be pretty open minded, but not everyone is a fan of that I guess. Maybe you just read what I wrote the wrong way. I’m not here to make anyone angry with me, just to have an intelligent discussion. I think you should take a look back at the other stuff I’ve said before you judge one single comment.
Anyway, I think the new Batsuit is pretty cool looking, and it will definitely be an entertaining movie.
Oh, one more thing I actually thought was really interesting concerning Iron Man – check out this article on wired.com:
http://www.wired.com/gadgets/miscellaneous/news/2008/04/ironman_physics
The article itself isn’t all that great, but the comments people left are pretty incredible. One guy went pretty in depth concerning how the repulsor rays and boots would work, and he shows all the math for it too! One guy even started a website towards developing a functioning Iron Man suit. It’s a little excessive, but still pretty impressive.
After reading that article, I’m guessing even the wildest of gadgets Batman uses aren’t too far beyond belief.
guys, my point here is.. it doesnt matter if the Batsuit is armour plated or not.. it relly doesnt.. Batman is always changing an adapting.. so i guess armour plating his suit is completely ok.. but i have to agree with CB here.. the suit and symbol has to resemble the original is one way or another so that we can relate to Batman.. if u change it.. change it to adapt with the old suit.. not make a new design altogether!!
he is a very old character and he has a lot of fans who have been following him for a very long time.. if u make a movie.. ur prime audience base is them.. not the new generation of audiences who just go to watch ‘any movie’ in the theatres. so changes have to be made carefully.. and if u do make changes.. keep em nice and believable.. believeable in the world of Batman.. not ours!!
definitely ur right CB, i agree with ur articulations..the cape, the ears, the eyes..
the point is mike.. make the Bat 21st century real world compatible, but dont turn him into something from Robo-cop or Transfrmers. i relly dont recognise him in the suit they have for TDK and his cowl is just horrible.. looks like a helmet with two little points on the head.. not cool!
also, i made a comparison with IM althoug i knw they are so different is because they stuck to the original theme.. so it wud be nice if the movie makers stuck to the original theme of Batman. he is not a superhere who has been made up for just BB or TDK.. he goes wayyyy back.. so the history must be taken into consideration.
with regards to the Joker.. well it seems like the late HL did a fantastic job.. but then agn.. he looks nothing like the real J. the real Joker shudve been a very tall, thin guy with a long nose and pointy chin.. but then agn.. they didnt do bad job with the revamp.. to some ppl changing these very old characters to make them compatible with cinema today maybe ok.. but for me.. no!! i wud say tht if they cud make a movie which can become an onscreen part of the comic book saga.. story and looks included.. well that’l b the day i bow down to Hollywood.. on the whole, i’d put it straight.. the movie makers are destroying our beloved childhood characters!!
overall, still, if u do revamp.. make it look good.. with the Joker, i believe they did a pretty good job..with the Bat, well, they just sucked!!
There seems to be a lot of healthy debate going on here, which is always good.
The eyes have come up a few times and I have to say that while they look good in the comics and cartoons it becomes much more difficult to act with something blocking the actors eyes. It’s very difficult to connect with a person if you can’t see their eyes (that’s why some people feel a bit awkward talking to blind people who wear sunglasses).
As for that cape, I’ve always thought that it looked better when he was big enough to cover Bats entirely and that would be a nice addition, perhaps for the third film.
Just before I leave to get back to work, I think the plating makes the suit look like it’s not all one piece. It makes it easier to imagine how Bruce would get into the suit. Before it seemingly all one large piece which seemed very strange and a little comical.
Anyway, back to work…
First of all, the comic book Batman suit is very protective. It is not some mere pair of tights as some have described it, it is a bullet, flame, and shock proof (to a degree, of course), form fitting material that Batman invented. Batman created a protective yet flexible, form fitting material (akin to a bullet proof vest), free of any clunky rubber/plastic or so called “armor” that would compromise his maneuverability and reaction time. With this costume he created he can be protected and still move and fight like a stealthy ninja. That’d believable and, IMO, would translate fine onto film.
Secondly, the black plastic/rubber “armored” suits that we are used to seeing on film are not about realism. They are used because Tim Burton disliked the comic book suit (also because Keaton could not fill it out) and wanted to leave his mark on the suit, so he eliminated the gray areas and made it out of plastic/rubber and thus the gray-less black w/ yellow utility belt plastic suit was born. It was not created because Burton felt the comic book black and gray suit was “unrealistic” or that it needed “armor”, but because Burton envisioned Batman in complete black rubber (like most of his other projects), and the comic book suit simply went against his style (he never has and never will read a comic book, he said, BTW), it was a matter of personal taste, not because of “believability”, that the suit was made that way. Because Burton’s Batman film was a success and that suit is what the mainstream people had accepted as the bat suit, WB has kept that basic formula, the bl ack rubber/plastic/”armored’ suit w/ yellow belt, for all Batman films since then, and that’s why the Batman costumes all the way up to TDK have been variations of the Burton suit. Don’t convince yourself it’s about “realism” when it is nothing more then a trend.
Thirdly, if we are to be frank about it, both suits, the form fitting, flexible comic book suit and the stiff rubber/plastic movie suit are entirely uunrealistic They are fictional. No matter how you look at it, it’s still made up. Getting a plastic/rubber black and yellow costume and telling me it’s bullet proof isn’t any different than getting a more fabricy, flexible suit and telling me it’s bullet proof. The only difference between the two is that the one is respectful of the source material and the wearer can actually move and breath easily in it and the other isn’t respectful of the source material and the wearer can’t move or breath easily in it.
Fourthly, The purpose of the Batman costume was never to make the wwearerextremely protected or invincible, that’s Iron Man’s department. It was to be a disguise/persona that would be iimmediatelyrecognizable and meant something to criminals, a symbol. When creating his suit, Bruce Wayne said “Crminials are a superstitious and cowardly lot…” not “Criminals are a dangerous lot, therefore I must wear lost of protective armor that will prevent me from moving swiftly before one of them puts a cap in my ass…”. The suit was conceived as a disguise that he could wear while he beat thugs up, not as a protective suit like Iron Man, the protection it provided was a secondary thought. One of the defining aattributesof Batman is that he is human, like you or me, he can be hurt or destroyed as we can, when guns go off, they’re a real threat to him. To over armor him, like the films do, is to take take that away or lessen that aspect of the character. Iron Man wears armor, Bat man does not. He does not need or use clunky armor like the movies always put him in to get by, the protection that the costume he created provides is enough. Ninjas, characters like V from V for Vendetta, Zorro, Green Arrow, even DareDevil, are all guys who are human like Batman and face the same threats that he does without the aid of the clunky, plastic/rubber armor that the movies always throw Batman in or even the protective, form fitting suit that Batman wears in the comics, and yet they get by just fine. But iI’msupposed to believe that Batman in the movies could not survive without his plastic/rubber armor plated suit. It’s ridiculous.
Fifthly, since when did superheroes become about “realism”? They’re supposed to be an escape from that, imaginative stories of what could be, not what is. If you’re interested in stories about a guy who can fly, stick to walls, or lives in a batcave you are looking in the wrong place for realism, and it isn’t realism that has attracted you to these stories in the first place. The stories should be left the way they are without the tweaks.
Sixthly, for the people who argue the color scheme of the comic book suit is “unrealistic” or “would stand out too much”, consider this; the movie suits are completely black with yellow utility belts! Doesn’t that stand out? I thought you’d say yes. Also, the lower part of the face is unprotected, what if someone tries to shoot him there? Wouldn’t you wear armor there? That isn’t very “rrealistic. Neither is a cape. But if you’re going to make it realistic you’re going to take away what helps make the character so recognizable and iconic. YYoucan barely see the bat symbol on the Dark Knight film suit’s chest, it’s horrible. The black and gray comic book suit’s color scheme (black and gray) is camo like soldiers wear, so that actually isn’t unrealistic.
And finally, the Spider-man, Iron Man, Superman, Fantastic 4, and Hulk movie suits/looks are VERY close to their current comic book versions, if not exactly like them, Batman shouldn’t be, but is somehow an exception. But why is that? It isn’t because of “realism’, it’s because WB doesn’t want to stray from rthetradition that started back in the Burton Batman days of the all black plastic/rubber “armored” costume with the yellow belt. And who says the black and gray, flexible, form fitting, bullet, flame, and shock proof comic book suit wouldn’t translate well onto the big screen? They worked fine for the aaformentionedcharacters above. We have yet to see a big budget version of the current comic book Batman suit and most likely, until that happens, none of you will believe it would work/be successful. It’s funny tthatthe first thing you ppeoplethink of when you think of the comic book Batman suit is the Adam West TV show suit, which was over 40 years ago! That’ d be like only thinking of the 1940s serials or 50s TV show Superman suit when thinking of the Superman comic book suit or like thinking of the 70s TV show Spider-Man costume when thinking of the comic book Spider-Man suit. As I said, we have yet to see a big budget, current take on the current Batman comic book suit, there’s no reason why that can’t be “cool” or stylized like the current Superman or Spider-Man film suits and still remain true to the look of the comic books. I say they could make it out of material similar to the Daredevil or Harry Osborn movie suits’ material and it would be fine. Bullet proof vests look like that.
That said, the movies have made 2 contributions that are actually good; the grapel gun and the memory cloth gliding bat cape. The grapel gun has actually been added into the comics since its introduction in Tim Burton’s 1989 Batman film, it’s one of the best additions to Batman I can think of. I like the memory cloth as well, it’s the classic cape from the comics yet it’s a glider at the sametime and it actually exists, it’s so much better that he has his cape and glider all roled into one without compromising manuverability instead of losing the cape for the clunky glider of the comic books. THOSE are contributions that I really like.
well.. i am part of camp 1. i don’t see any reason why the movie costume designers couldn’t come up with a suit that is most similar to the comics.. Batman is a great warrior in a suit, he is just that. A skilled martial artist / athlete and detective.. The MAN should be the one emphasized in the movies. The skills of the MAN should be the focus, he is after all the best human specimen in the DC universe. In this regard he is still a SUPER – MAN.
I really like what this guy did here http://features.cgsociety.org/stories/2005_08/dark_knight/images/batman.jpg
I still can compromise with a gray version of the 2nd batbale suit.
and oh yeah… before i forget… i would sure like it if the succeeding movies show white eye protectors like they do in the COMICS… protectors, lens or shields.. or mini monitors… the WHITE EYE COVERINGS maybe all these.. i dont know.. but i want to see them in the succeeding movies.. they are part of BATMAN!
If there is ever going to be a part 3 The director should be bold enough as to stay away from the current black rubber suit trend and just be as faithful to the comic as possible. The director will go down in history as the person who really gave life to BATMAN.
HEAR THAT BURTON???!!!!!!! WE DON’T LIKE YOUR BLACK RUBBER SUIT!!!!
Doomsday, I don’t think we’ll see white eye coverings – they didn’t even do it for the Spider-Man movies.
Vic
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