5 Ways ‘Batman V Superman’ Can Justify ‘Man of Steel’

Published 3 months ago by , Updated July 30th, 2014 at 10:45 am,

Man of Steel 2 Movie Batman Superman Dawn Justice League 5 Ways Batman V Superman Can Justify Man of Steel

Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice will bring us the next chapter in director Zack Snyder’s burgeoning DC Movie Universe – and for better or worse (depending on who you are), the foundation for that universe is Henry Cavill’s Superman, as depicted in the film Man of Steel.

Fan debate still rages (and we do mean rages) over Snyder’s interpretation of the Superman character and lore  – with part of the blame and/or praise going to script contributors Chris Nolan and David S. Goyer. We have a divisive cinematic Superman on our hands right now, but rather than continue the circular debate about whether or not Man of Steel was a great Superman movie (or even just a good movie), it’s time to be more constructive and look ahead to the future in order to maybe identify ways that Snyder and CO. can utilize some of what fans didn’t like, in ways that can best enhance the story and character arcs of Batman V Superman.

Here are 5 ways that the Man of Steel version of Superman could be put to good use in Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice:

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5. Lost Fathers

Kevin Costner as Jonathan Kent in Man of Steel 5 Ways Batman V Superman Can Justify Man of Steel

It’s no secret that in comic book lore Superman and Batman (or rather, Clark Kent and Bruce Wayne) have both lost their fathers; however, in most tellings, Superman’s loss is much less tragic than the “Jonathan Kent vs The Tornado” sacrifice we saw in Man of Steel. How Pa Kent died (and why) is one of the more debated aspects of the Superman reboot (was it effective? Silly? Poorly shot?), but it is the story we have, so let’s make some damn good lemonade out of it.

Beyond the Batman / Superman superhero action that everybody is most excited about, Dawn of Justice needs to also address the men behind the mask, and what ultimately connects them as “men,” and not just superheroes. Thanks to Man of Steel, this film offers the rare opportunity to have Clark Kent and Bruce Wayne bond over the pain of patriarchal loss in a way we really haven’t seen before.

Gotham Death of Bruce Waynes Parents 5 Ways Batman V Superman Can Justify Man of Steel

Moreover, both this new version of Thomas Wayne and the MoS Jonathan Kent/Jor-El combo can be positioned as men who died for ideals (helping Gotham, protecting Clark and Earth). That would provide deep, rich common ground for their superhero sons to bond on – a foundation of deeply-rooted values and ideals that define an entire Justice League.

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4. Illegal Alien

Man of Steel Superman Fan Art 5 Ways Batman V Superman Can Justify Man of Steel

One thing that Man of Steel treated much differently than previous Superman movies was the character’s status as an alien. Back when Superman was created in 1938, aliens were hardly party of the mainstream zeitgeist; however, in our sci-fi saturated modern society, the question of alien encounter is more “when” than “if.” In that context, Man of Steel had to treat the revelation of an extraterrestrial superpowered being from a more cynical modern perspective. But a world where Superman isn’t automatically established as a globally-accepted do-gooder deity could be interesting for Dawn of Justice.

In the famous graphic novel Kingdom Come, we saw a vision of the near future where concerns about out of control metahumans force Bruce Wayne and Lex Luthor into an uneasy alliance in the name of defending humanity. That same idea could (and likely will) trickle down to Batman V Superman, if Superman’s handling of Zod has made him as feared and hated as he is loved.

Indeed “The Alien” nature of Superman could provide some great narrative thrust, if the story involves Batman’s views on “humanity,” and his ultimate pivot from the side of Lex to the side of Kal-El. (Side note: that would also be a pretty meta way to hopefully pull a lot of skeptical fans to the side of this new DC Universe.)

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TAGS: batman, batman vs superman, comic con 2014, justice league, superman

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  1. Nice touch on using that animated TV series clip. That episode was a classic.

    I appreciate that Kofi.

    • That was a clip from animated movie The World’s Finest not an episode of animated series

      • No, originally “World’s Finest” aired on TV as three episodes before it was packaged and sold as a movie on video.

        • Yep, Ben is right. I think i still have a DVD copy of it.

    • I agree the animated World’s Finest was my entire life as a little kid every single scene held my hand it was great. :)

  2. Good read Outlaw. Good read.

  3. I think you are spot on with the Super Hero Code Of Justice.

    I imagine that the story will have many similarities to Frank Millars Dark Knight and perhaps Bruce finds he can exercise his demons in a similar way he did at the end of that story by training up a team of vigilantes so that his legacy becomes bigger than just himself and who in this instance now happen to be heroes we are more familiar with rather than the unfocused vigilantes who were already going out in batmans name in the comic.

    • A scene of Batman relaxing watching Captain Kirk would be good too.

  4. Wayne didn’t die for an idea or a belief that he needed to keep something secret. He died in a (depending what version) street mugging. I dont see how you can compare that for Kent (in the movie) not wanting to live in order to keep his adopted sons powers hidden until the moment was right.

    Batman has never cared either way Alien or not. Its the power and how it can be contolled/stopped that Batman cares about (which you cover in 5). In Kingdom Come he was a plant (at least that is the way I read it as he ‘turned’ on Luthor and the MLF).

    What wits did they match in that clip? Supes used his xray vision to ‘peek’…. Bats used a tracking device, kept distance as not to be detected, used a (unknown at the time to many) bit of Kryptonite as a diversion…. I didnt see anything that Superman used that would show he can come close to matching BAts wits. As for the movie the various jobs taken are not high on the “Hey whats your background, wheres your resume, list of references etc….”

    #2 was covered above.

    The reason the Justice League was born was there was a threat no one hero could resolve. I dont understand the differing in values between Bats and Supes as polar opposites helping to create/form the JL. Dawn of Justice can also mean the beginning not necessarily having a team established by movie end. Dawn means the beginning. So we see the beginning of a team or even a need for a team. (Which I think will cause problems for the film) If they already have a ‘team’ by the end there is a very good chance the film will feel rushed.

    I dont see how these 5 things ‘justify’ MoS. While I enjoyed it more then I thought I dont see anything that needs justifying…. They portrayed Supes fairly well IMO.

    The only thing needing Justifying by Supes with regards to Bats IMO would be the killing of innocents and the blatant killing of Zod. That is the Elephant in the room. He acted irresponsible with the level of power he wields.

    • What innocents did Superman kill? How was his killing of Zod blatant? Do you understand the meaning of “blatant?” This argument is so silly I can’t believe people actually still try to make it. So, let’s see: you’re mad because Supes (somehow it’s his fault?) let “innocent people” die during a massively destructive fight that was 100% brought on by Zod, who’s mission was to terraform earth and create a new Krypton by using giant, destructive machines. Then, you’re mad at Supes for killing Zod to prevent him from killing a family of “innocent people.” This is utter nonsense.

      • Little too much caffeine this morning?

        Do you understand what I wrote? As BATMAN looking at the wonton destruction and DEATH of Zod he would not approve. He would BLAME Superman for not containing the situation or at the very least moving the fight.

        So again Im just saying what would need to be JUSTIFIED between Bats/Supes in the new movie.

        Calm down Francis i didnt touch your stuff.

        • That would simply make Batman an ignorant fool. Maybe the Batfleck is that silly, but Batman is not.

          • No in actuality it would make him a very smart person. I mean what happens if another entity on the power level of Supes hits? Will he again just duke it out in the streets? Will he resort to ‘killing’ him (or her)?

            jp you appear to not know anything about the respect and fear Batman has when it comes to Superman.

            Try reading Identity Crisis, into OMAC Project, into Countdown to Infinite Crisis to Superman: Sacrifice storyline, etc.

            I beleive there has also been a few confrontations throughout history about “What If” Clark/Supes gets compromised.

            So for their first meeting I see it could happen this way the way you think is silly… yet you have nothing to back up your silly claim…

            Batman is against killing and the deaths of innocents. What he saw when Supes fought Zod and the outcome leads me to believe he would not be happy with the way Superman handled it.

            Now if you can come up with a logical (and reasonably verifiable) reason why he wouldn’t I would love to hear it. Unless silly is your only recourse.

            • A threat of the nature of Zod no one would care that he was killed and should another foe arise threatening earth all would be happy for him to die too.

              If they tried to make make that a moral issue for the film then Batman would come off as completely weak headed.

            • It isn’t that he’s be upset at how Superman handled the situation as much as Batman being concerned about someone that powerful living on Earth and what is his intentions. Remember Superman appeared out of nowhere and nobody knows who he is are what he wants. People that are so upset about him killing Zod seem to forget that Superman killed Zod in the Comics. There wasn’t anything else for him to do but kill him. If he had knocked him unconscious, then what? There’s no prison n the planet that could have held him. Kryptonite doesn’t exist in the movies (not yet anyway) and it was the atmosphere, not the sunlight that made them weaker so a red sun prison isn’t an option. People still complaining about killing Zod really need to get it through there heads that there was no other option.

              • Hey people… We know this…. Superman knows this….. Zod now knows this.

                Batman does not.

                Batman does not know why Superman killed Zod. Or maybe he does but wants to make sure Superman exhausted all methods.

                PEOPLE are not complaining. Well I am not. Im just stating Batman was not watching the movie where it showed that. He was going to the batroom during that scene.

                Again ….. Batman has no idea WHY Superman did what he did. All he sees is the destruction and death of Zod. Batman abhors killing. He needs to find out if Supes exhausted all other methods. Not to mention address his inability to move/control the fight.

                • Batman doesn’t care why Superman killed Zod. Why would he? What he cares about is that there is this incredibly powerful being running around. Nobody knows who he is, he’s been living among us for decades and he has the power to destroy an entire city, intentional or not. Even in the comics, though he trust his teammates he is still concerned about their power levels.

                  • Two different relationships are being described here.

                    The NOW: Batman’s only concern is, yes, the sudden appearance of these incredibly powerful beings; what they want and what they can do. (Destroying a city and killing innocent bystanders.)

                    The LATER: Once Bats and Supes are a part of a team, and their individual decisions affect the other, THEN Bats might question Kal’s Zod killing. Once they have time to get to know one another, as teammates, on and off the battlefield.

                    It would be beautiful if they debated on the subject.

                    • “killing innocent bystanders”

                      Seriously just watch the movie again and make a compilation video of bystanders dying from the Superman vs Zod fight.

              • I agree completely. Batman will come in to assess what kind of threat Superman poses to Earth. With a being that powerful, what would prevent him from imposing his own brand of justice on the world…or simply ruling it by his own decree? My belief is that Batman makes contact to see where the new guy stands; to establish that the destruction and loss of life was not intentional.

                I think most people judge “MOS” unjustly based on the killing of Zod. It seems that most opinions of Superman are inspired by the Christopher Reeve movies or “Lois And Clark” rather than the comics. Superman did kill Zod in the comics, and not in the heat of battle that was portrayed in “MOS”. In the comics, Kal-El murders Zod and company in a cold-blooded execution by Kryptonite after determining they were to big a threat to Earth to continue living.

                • “. It seems that most opinions of Superman are inspired by the Christopher Reeve movies or “Lois And Clark” rather than the comics.”

                  That. So. Completely. That.

                  • Wow, yeah, that very much escalated in all sorts of directions. I think anyone can read Tower of Babel or The Dark Knight Rises (or watch their respective animated adaptations) and this entire discussion would be resolved…

                    • Oops, the Tower of Babel animated adaptation is actually called “Justice League Doom” and is basically the same concept. I believe it’s still on Netflix…

                    • Dark Knight rises is not cannon. Maybe you should read up on how Batman and Superman interact in the mainstream universe.

                    • Crud, The Dark Knight Returns (which is actually also not cannon, but whatever).

                      Which mainstream universe are you referring to? Because I know of several different cannons in which their relationship is pretty similar…

                • The part about that which bugs me about the public’s criticism of Zod being killed in MOS is the fact that the people seem to either forget or ignore the fact that the Christopher Reeves Superman also killed Zod.

                  • I was going to bring this up. Lois also murdered the female Kryptonian (also named Faora?). Then they had a laugh about it.

                    Of course, people invariable point to the director’s cut of the film where it shows Zod and co. are alive. The problem with that is the Donner cut is not the actual movie. It’s a version a lot of people, myself included, have never seen because it isn’t the actual Superman II that was released.

                    • actually, the donner cut is the actual movie. they actually filmed those scenes. the writers/directors intent was to show those scenes, but the producers [the salkinds] decided to fire donner after superman was a hit and they didnt want to pay him, so they hired a hack, [same hack who directed superman 3] to reshoot some of the scenes to cut donner out of his credit and re-edited it to what is really a silly version, especially when compared to the donner cut [which, if you are a big supes fan, why have you not seen it yet?] you can claim it’s not canon if you want, but those movies are not canon to anything but themselves. apparently W/B thought his version was good enough to re-release, so, why cant BOTH be canon? you like which ever version you want. show me the rule book that says only the 1st version is/can be canon. i think geroge lucas would debate that topic with you as well.

        • Then Supes should blame Batman for allowing HIS reactor to be stolen and turned into a nuke that exploded on the eastern seaboard, contaminating it for century’s to come.

        • Dude this isn’t the 70s Zod who is very easily tricked into fighing somewhere else as well as very easily tricked into losing his powers. This Zod was hell bent on killing everyone on the planet and his expert fighting skills made it extremely difficult for Superman to move the fight elsewhere. Even that first fight in Smallville shows superman trying to fly Faora out the town before Nam-ek tackled him in the air.

    • I think Batman forms the Justice League FOR Superman. He would need ALL those people for Superman, and I think that’s how they’ll tie them in. Batman probably has a file on each of them, then attempts to contact them for help with Superman.

      • It makes no since to make Superman the villain in the Justice League movie. NONE.

      • I think that Batman and Supes will confront themselves because 1)Superman works (or wanted to work with in the end MoS) with the US Government, which in the Dark Knight Returns comics is the reason they fight and 2) Batman is of the opinion that superheroes should be feared and not collaborate. From the SDCC footage they seem to be fighting in Gotham (just like in the comics). How Lex Luther will be used is a mystery though.
        IMO the justice league will be formed because they’ll want to protect earth from future threats similar to Zod’s. Maybe that’s why WW appears too!!

        • Um did you actually see the movie? Superman did not want to work for or with the government. He wanted them to stop treating him like a threat. The Batman in TDK likes to be feared, however that isn’t really in line with the character.

          • These are just Batman fanboys that think Batman is smarter than everyone and that he has to dictate anything.

        • Superman is government stooge only in Miller’s work, what are you talking about? Notice how i said ‘only’ yes in a movie he was never working for the government and neither was willing to. You can make a video and show those exact evidences of yours.

          • In MoS right in the end he says something in the lines of “I’m willing to work with you but you cannot control me”. All I’m speculating is that since the movie is based on the Dark Knight Returns Batman and Superman MAY confront each other for similar reasons than in the comics, which is because Supes works with (not for) the government. If you’ve read the comics or the animated film i think it can be plausible

            • IN the interview room Supes & Lois were in (Re: temporary military installation for the Kryptonian meet), Supes gets up while talking with Prof. Hamilton & says, “You’re afraid of me because you can’t control me. But that doesn’t make me your enemy”.

              General Swanwick replies, “If you’re not, who is? Zod?”

              Supes answers, “That’s what I’m afraid of…”

              So that’s the source of the “You can’t control me” meme.

              #2: In one of the last scenes of the movie, Supes & Swanwick have a little talk around the debris of a surveillance drone that Supes just crashed in front of Swanwick’s car. Swanwick says, “How can we be sure that you won’t one day do something against America’s interests?”.

              Supes replies, “General, I grew up in Kansas for god’s sakes. Look, all I want to do is help. And you need to convince Washington of that….”

              Swanwick queries, “Even if I could do that, how can you be so sure I would”

              Supes reassures him, “I guess I’ll just have to trust you”, then smiles & takes off into the skies.

              Superman has no desire to work with the Government. While that doesn’t mean he wouldn’t be available to help where he could, it’s entirely different than working with someone, never mind actually being controlled by them. His primary concern is for them to end their surveilance/stalking (take yer pick).

              However the biggest theme of the talk is about Trust. The Churh Pastor suggested to Clark that before trust comes a leap of faith. In the end, CLark made a leap of faith that centered around Lois. It’s why he’s so grateful to her before the Kryptonians take him & Lois away. My guess is that outside his parents, Clark was akin to TV’s Dexter when it came to trust & faith in people. To him they were all just potential targets to save & rarely, if ever, know.

              MoS’s Superman is equal parts “Champion of the People” & recluse. He’ll do everything in his power to help, but certainly not at the expense of his privacy. He also sees the danger of being controlled by anyone & is very clear about that.

              Clark is precise about the idea of being there if “They” should need him, but not as clear as he is about getting them off his tail feathers.

              That’s where the “I’m willing to work with you” meme comes from, and it’s wrong.

              Not seeing the clear distinctions is simply a matter of not paying enough attention. That’s all. No harm no foul. However, facts are facts & if you harbor any doubt, just be sure to go back to the source material & see for yourself.

              **Note** Mea Culpa for how long this post is…Cheers!

              • Really good post i have nothing to add.

              • I was wrong my bad lool

          • Yet at the end of Superman II he flies the American flag back to the top of the White House and tells the President “I’ll never let you down again.” Sounds like allegiance to me.

    • I think the whole “Lost Fathers” parallel works in the sense that Thomas & Pa Kent died in similar fashions (trying to protect their sons) with Thomas dying ironically at the hands of the city he was trying to save. I agree, Man of Steel was a fantastic film, but the sequel could help justify its flaws and make it even greater in hindsight!

  5. I Really would love the film to open painting Superman as a villian. Lex Contacting Bruce Wayne, and being like, “have you seen how this alien destroyed Metropolis?” I Need Wayne Enterprises to help Rebuild. And that’s how Lex Drags Wayne into it, and After seeing first hand the destruction, Wayne Decides that Batman needs to take down the Man of Steel. It’s What Batman Feels is Justice. And Through the fight, (Which should be in the first act) Then Lex Launches some form of attack against both of them. And that’s what forces them to work together. Perhaps Bruce also sees the darker side to Lex through Dealing with him a la World’s Finest.

    or something like that…. i don’t know….

    • yah im pretty sure superman will be seen by many as a villain in the first half of the movie

    • It’s a Superman movie. If anything Batman will be the villain in the beginning. They even call Batman the antagonist in press releases.

      • It isn’t a Superman movie. It’s a pre-Justice League film. Man of Steel 2 would [and still could] be the Superman-based sequel, but Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice clearly states what kind of movie we’ll be seeing in the title.

        Also, if we’re seeing a veteran Batman [which we are, as stated in Snyder's original description of the character] then he would have been around long enough to be painted as a villain in this universe. BUT how would that believably drive someone with god-like powers to hunt down an ordinary man in a suit now instead of the period of time that has passed between movies? And this is someone who just lost the favor of the public by, I don’t know, destroying Metropolis and probably assisting in the deaths of countless innocents, so it lays the perfect foundation for Superman to be seen as the villain and Bruce Wayne to be the hero of the charitable public [helping fund the rebuilding of Metropolis] while at the same time Batman could be the hero needed [attempting to gather a team to keep Superman in check]. This would all fit both with the events of Man of Steel AND give enough of an introduction to all supporting heroes for the Justice League movie to avoid a two-hour origin story for the team.

        • Funny how you forget to mention how he saved the entire plant and everyone on it. And who said Superman was hunting Batman. And no this isn’t MOS2 but Superman is still the main focus.

    • LOL! Destroy Metropolis you mean save the WORLD which includes Batman and his daddy’s billions. I can’r stand these Batman fanboys minimizing what Supes does.

  6. Why won’t you talk about the leaked Deadpool test footage starring Ryan Reynolds? I thought it was fun

    • Because that’s not what this article is about.

  7. Good stuff, except for the part about Lex and Supes not exchanging fisticuffs due to Lex’s size. That’s one of the coolest dynamics to play with and the reason I like my Batman bigger and more intimidating than my Superman.

    Superman is hands down more powerful, reguardless of size. Playing with that dynamic is really cool. A muscle bound Lex or a scrawny Lex… Both get smashed just as easily, which makes the paradox of the physical appearance that much more dynamic.

    • Didn’t I hear that Jesse was working out?

      • Yeah, but his size is still entirely unrelated to his ability to fight Batman or Superman.

  8. The only way I’m okay with MOS…is cuz I treat it as a very different universe. Otherwise, the character choices, style of the movie, overstuffed action….that’s jst not Superman.
    Even if anyone genuinely likes BvsS, there is just one simple and really important flaw with that movie, for me. It wasn’t inspiring. Go for a “realistic” approach if you will, but the core of superman as a character, was non-existent.

    Maybe BvsS wud readdress a lot of it. On the other hand, it could re-interpret Batman in way that most ppl wudnt like. Let’s not even speak of Eisenberg..cuz…well..meh.

    • I think the problem you have and alot of others have with the MoS Superman is that you have an idea of what kind of Superman you love and This Supes was most likely different than that. To fully appreciate this Superman and MoS, you have to treat the film as a real beginning for Superman/Clark/Kal. In MoS, he first realized that he isnt a human being, but an alien. He realized he’s from another planet, and on that planet, had his real father and mother. He’s learning from both sides (alien and human).He finds his suit and learns to fly for the first time, and on top of that, learned about how powerful he is and is learning how to use these powers.In the film, he finally realizes who he is and what he’s meant to become. Keyword, BECOME as opposed to Donner’s Superman where it seems hes already established as a Superhero. Snyder’s Superman hasnt yet realized what his true purpose is yet. I feel like Supes killing Zod will change his whole view on whats right/wrong, sacrifice and good/evil. Give it some time and I feel like you’ll eventually see that Superman youre used to.

    • It’s funny you would say you treat this as a different universe, then complain about the character.

      First of all, it IS a different universe. It’s a brand new universe and it is currently the only film that occupies this universe.

      Second of all, there are already multiple universes within DC, wherein there are multiple versions of Superman’s character. It’s not like this one is somehow unique unto itself. The character was inspired by existing universes.

      You aren’t required to prefer this particular universe, but it can’t be dismissed as invalid.

    • If you don’t see the good of Clark/Kal in MoS, it’s a failure of your observation & insight, not the film. What you don’t see is blinding you to what IS there for all to see.

      And if you can’t be inspired by someone who quickly & selflessly sacrifices himself Twice! (1- Turning himself over to the Military (hence to Zod & Co.) & 2- Battling the World Engine, ending up at the heart of its beam & still finding a way to marshal all he had to break through & end its threat to humanity). In both situations, for all he knew he could easily have died; Zod killing him at the Zero Engine ship & at the World Engine which could easily have been lethal to him for all he knew (its function is to transform Earth geology & atmosphere to Kryptonian).

      That is selfless heroism. And that isn’t opinion, it is fact.

      Don’t like the style, narrative & color tone of the film or the plot, characters? Fine. That’s about your taste. And I can certainly see how some would like a Superman film with narrative & color tones closer to the original Superman films, Singer’s or even MCU flicks.

      There’s always a stark distinction between what appeals to us, and what is actually playing out in front of us. I can absolutely understand that despite WHAT Superman does
      in MoS, you simply didn’t like HOW it looked & unfolded. That’s fair & fine.

      IMO, his actions alone earn him the name of Superman in my book.
      On top of that, I love the way the film looks & dislike very few things about it.

      Cheers! ;-)

  9. Batman V Superman can in no way ‘justify’ the tone deafness of the third act especially the oblivious slap happy ‘Welcome to the planet’ groaner ending that ignores the previous 30 minutes of destruction that just happened.

    That’s a stain on Modicum of Steel that can never be washed away.

  10. How about, can it justify the bad exposition?

  11. Great thoughts but not practical IMHO reasons -
    1. While the ideas are good , they are not feasible considering the fact that this is the prequel to Justice League. Justice League is coming next and for us to give any s*** about all other characters that are going to appear in it viz. WW, Cyborg, Aquaman (maybe) e.t.c they will require some character development/screen time in this film.

    2.Taking that much burden from Man of Steel will weigh this movie down. Remember a movie has to stand alone and you cannot assume everyone in the audience has seen Man of Steel first (eg. Joss Whedon made Avengers in a way that anyone who has not seen any previous MCU films can enjoy it). Batman v Superman has to be its own thing , it can reference some major events like ‘fall of metropolis’ to break cinematic ground. But going so much in to Superman and Batman’s past & psychology will weigh the film down in exposition. Imagine Amy Adams every 20 min turning to the screen and explaining stuff …

    3. This is Zack Snyder directing it, he can create great visuals, set pieces, action sequences and make an epic entertaining popcorn flick, but character development/emotions is not his forte. He is not Fincher, Nolan, Scorcese, Tarantino that he can make compelling character driven layered complex dramas, his strength is different. So just let him make an entertaining stand-alone popcorn flick and people will be satisfied. Just a fun, entertaining Batman V Superman film will easily hit billion dollars at the box office.

    • So im guessing you didnt see Watchmen.

      • I saw Watchmen and liked it a lot. But it wasn’t emotional resonance or character depiction that made the movie good, it was Zack Snyder’s amazing visual style. The opening sequence felt straight out of comic book page. Zack’s flair for visuals is what makes him a unique director. But what he doesn’t get is character moments. He can make a cool movie no doubt. But all the points in this article requires complex character depiction and dramatic panache which Snyder lacks IMO.
        But I’ll give him one thing: He tried to make an emotional movie with MOS atleast the first 2/3 of the film, the guy is clearly trying to improve himself.

        • Chris Terrio is writing this movie. Not to mention that Snyder has surrounded himself with great writers, such as Affleck. Your 3 assumptions are entirely speculative and assume complete incompetence from the writing as well as a few other points.

          1. We have no idea how significant of a role any of the side characters will play.

          2. We have no idea how long this movie will be.

          I think those two things would need to be known before we start making declarations about anyone’s ability to thresh out any given character.

          • I like all Zack Snyder films except Sucker Punch . i even liked the owl animated movie. But you look at any of his films , character depth is not his strength. However, you are right about Terrio, Snyder has never actually worked with an Academy award winning writer until this point. Maybe his films till now never had the proper script for him to show his talent. So Snyder has a great opportunity to prove all critics wrong and show that he can balance substance along with all that flash. As I said, I also think Snyder made a genuine attempt in the first 2/3 rds of Man of Steel movie for character development so he is clearly trying. I doubt Affleck will have any creative input directly as he has clearly said in an earlier interview that success of this film is solely dependent on director. But he brought Terrio which is great move and I feel Ben Affleck is the best thing that happened to this film. Lets hope this film blows everyone’s mind!

            • Yeah, I can get behind that statement a lot more than the last. Agreed.

  12. Batman V Superman shouldn’t be concerned with ‘justifying’ MoS. It’s only concern should be developing it’s own story. It should develop Superman and Batman’s character in such a way where everyone can jump in. Trying to justify the choices in Man of Steel will bog the film down.

  13. Zac’s movies always divides people. Watchmen for example.

    I thought Zac did a decent (though flawed) attempt to move out of the Donner Superman, and try out some different things. I mean why should people care about an indestructible god? He tried on the emotions of being the last of his kind, losing two fathers, and being an alien (and more). Zac did over do the fights (funny enough , the lack of that was something people complained about in Returns).

    Still, I’m looking forward to BvS

    • It didn’t divide people that much. According to Rotten Tomatoes, 76% of the audience liked it. Don’t let the uber whiners and Christopher Reeve worshippers make you think otherwise.

  14. Looking forward to BvsS. But only because I need to it erase my memory of MOS. That was a passable action movie in place of a superman movie.

    • How was it a “passable action movie in place of a superman movie” ? Only the last hour of the film was action. The first hour and a half set up Kal/Clark/Superman. It took the time to show the many sides of Superman. It really developed his character and showed what kind of person he was and the demons he was fighting on the inside. I think you need to sit down, watch it again and appreciate a great film when you see one.

  15. Or, the confrontation can go like. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkFzXkpjXmM

    • With no Kryptonite, this is about how that fight would go LOL! New 52 based Justice League cartoon OWNED.

  16. Superman & Batman meet each other as Clark Kent and Bruce Wayne at Metropolis Conference Center. Wonder Woman meets them in person as Diana Prince, flying in an Invisible Jet from Themsyciria.

    Jason Mamoa doesn’t look like Aquaman at all. Just the Current Aquaman as Orin, it can get DC Comics confusing. Jason Mamoa can play a villain instead.

    • Do you know Aquaman personally? Ever heard of make up, hair dye and acting?

      • No. What are those?

  17. The Superman in MoS was/is a reflection of the CURRENT-age Superman depicted in the modern comics (respecting the source material and all that). I’m ecstatic that the MoS superman wasn’t yet another 70s throwback, via the “…Here I come to save the day…” motif. So FOR ME, MoS Steel was awesome. I didn’t have ANY problems with what he did to Zod because “something” HAD to be done (typical human complacency played a large part in certain people having a problem with him finitely stopping a super-powered madman. I guess they wanted Supes to talk him down and lay him on a couch so he could get in touch with his feelings). Snapping his neck was the “right thing” and doing the “right thing” isn’t always pretty or collectively PC. Among of list of things that handling Zod that way proved, I think the most immediate one is Supes doing whatever it takes to protect his new home.

    Now every action has a reaction and what he did definitely HAS to be addressed BvSDoJ and as this excellent article suggested, there are a lot of ways to do just that. I agree with every point made. Great article Kofi.

    My concern(s) isn’t whether BvS will be “good” as that’s a subjective argument and those types of arguments go on and on forever (that, and there is just no accounting for taste). I’m more concerned with (1) WB rush to get into the Justice League Sphere instead of taking their time and doing a PROPER MoS sequel. IF they TRULY had a plan, MoS 2 could have come out next year (2015), and the following year (2016), Dawn of Justice could have dropped, which would have been perfect (they pushed DoJ back to 2016 anyway. SMH), (2) DC Fanboys ridiculous expectations never being met, and in typical DC Fanboy tradition, them walking away from DoJ with a meh attitude (like a lot of them did with MoS which in turn swayed public opinion on MoS) and moving onto the next WB/DC CBM hopeful on the horizon. And (3) the number of characters rumored to be introduced in this one movie.

    If WB can somewhat conquer those 3 hurdles, then I think they may finally get the monkey off their backs. But it’s a big “if” as they don’t have the best track record when it comes to DC CBM decisions. If they can leave Zack and his vision alone (announcing that the next film would basically be the Justice League jumping on movie is a prime example of WB NOT leaving Zack and his vision alone). If they stay on the storytelling track they started in MoS, I have no doubt that DoJ will be “good”. I just don’t know if it (or any WB/DC movie) will ever be good enough for the hardcore DC fanboy. Time will tell, but either way, I’m stoked to see it.

    • Zack Snyder should go over David S.Goyer’s script before anything is being mentioned. The Secret Origins on Batman vs Superman takes a lot of effort for David S. Goyer to over like Richard Donner and Tim Burton did. Bryan Singer did the rest with Brandon Routh playing Superman/Kal-El/Clark Kent in SUPERMAN RETURNS. Superman Returns is based on the New Krypton which was linked up to the Original Superman films, that Christopher Reeve played. Sometimes, The Secret Origins adds myth from reality to understand How Superman and Batman characterize themselves in the DC Universe.

  18. The World engine destroyed Metropolis, as well as the opposite poll (cue Aquaman) and please Google Frank Miller’s source material if you have not read it. Pretty obvious where this is going.

  19. Can BVS justify MOS? Yes. This has never been in question for me. Even the dark tone of MOS could work fine, if not really what is expected for Supes. The problems with that film are many, not just the tone – its just the tone (and death-wish Pa Kent, and the neck snap, and the destruction) is the most obvious vector of attack for its critics.

    Do I have any confidence BVS will correct the major issues with MOS? Absolutely not. Not with the people who are in charge of this production.

  20. There’s no need to “justify” Man of Steel. The sequel just needs to up the anti, like all ALL good sequels do. I have no doubt, that they will. Since the heroes will be going against each other for a portion of the film, it’ll be essential, that neither character comes off as the “bad guy”. It will be tricky, but it can be done.

  21. I’m glad you explained it, Kofi, I just feel that it wouldn’t have been necessary if some people had actually paid attention to the movie instead of getting disgruntled over the colour tone used in parts or the Zod death.

  22. Responding to “The reason the Justice League was born was there was a threat no one hero could resolve” comment.

    So in MOS, where we have an alien first encounter, alien attack, and alien terra-forming attempt of the planet, where was Batman, Wonder Woman, and Aqua-Man, at least? So they just sat back and said, oh this Superman guy can save the world – our world – the same world that would destroy the humans if Superman failed? No one gave him any backup, except the US Military?

    So then, what other threat would there be that would give birth to the Justice League. It seems that the planet being destroyed wasn’t enough of a motive.

    Next, alot of us saw that BvS Comic Con footage. While it drew alot of excitement, I’m curious to see how/if they show Bats coming to blows with Supes. Can Bats take a punch like the Ktrytonians could? What is his suit made of to allow him to take blows from Supes? Explain that.

    • Yes in all iterations that I have read (and watched) that is the reason to bring the JL together.

      So lets turn that around to you.. yes where were they? Lets try an example.

      Batman as a world event he alone knows he can have no input at this level. Its a first.

      Wonder Woman Got no idea where is she? Well by the time it appeared to be effecting the “world” they havent decided if they were going to get involved. They are not part of ‘mans’ world yet.

      Aquaman got no idea where is he? Same thing being King he had to make sure they wanted to present themselves to the outside world. By the time they did (or didnt) decide it was ‘over’.

      So now (well I dont know) one could say because of inability of the world of man to curb/stop/hinder something that could effect the world (Atlantis, Themyscira) they now step up…

      However all I am basing this on is past history.

      Based on your question of “I’m curious to see how/if they show Bats coming to blows with Supes” you dont know much about the history of the books….

      • I can completely go along with your examples. Well done! Also, I guess when you look at it, Bats may not want to get mistaken for the enemy, as in MOS, the military, at one point, was trying to take out all of the Kryptonians, including Supes. Yep, I haven’t ready comics in ages, so I rely on you commenters to enlighten the rest of us. I have watched all of the DC/Marvel DVDs though.

  23. Great article!!! This pretty much covers just about every single thing that I would like to see addressed in Dawn of Justice. Though I’m already expecting some but not all to be addressed. It’s a lot of depth, and conflict to cover in a two and half hour movie, but it’s possible. We’ll just have to wait and see I guess. Exciting stuff!

  24. Can we just bury the whole “he should have moved the fight” argument? Geez, that’s the worst thing I’ve heard as an argument against the movie. The only negatives I hear about Man of Steel are really just “ideals” arguments and it seems some people are forgetting it’s not reality, it’s a movie. I think it was a damn good movie.

  25. Man of Steel showed us what Superman is willing to do to save people. Zod was a threat and that family would of died if Superman didn’t kill him. People need to know there was no other way. In Dawn of Justice Batman will help Superman become the hero he needs to be.

    • That new photo of Superman alone shows that he is no longer the noob superhero he was MOS. I think the movie will be for the most part be Batman and Superman criticizing each other for all the bad they’ve done, Superman not being quick enough to stop Zod from decimating Metropolis and Batman using dark and lethal methods to fight crime. But then they’re might be some good they see in each other, Superman being a beacon of hope tht Batman can never be, while Superman admires Batman’s no kill code.

  26. Great article Kofi! You should sit with the DC/WB executives and lay down how their DC movies should be like and tell them to finally let them drop and give us a schedule of their DC cinematic universe. I always taught that if WB did not have other properties to make money of they would invest more time in the DC universe. My wishful thinking is the creation of a DC studios ala marvel. As i said wishful thinking.

  27. I dont think ‘Man of Steel’ need justify himself or gis existence. is the adaptation what the character need in our times, what finally get off the character in his confort zone and really bring him to our times and beyond. i think the point what the editorial show are very good and very right, not just to justify the choices of ‘Man of Steel’, but to highlight even more his greatness. Snyder know what he doing very well, he is a big fan ans great (but underated)filmmaker, and finally, i see someone what realizes the g****** Batman on that film, based on Miller’s take, will have his flaws as well.

  28. Don’t care. I just wanna see Bats & Supes have at it. CA3 will probably get destroyed in the process, so that’s something else to look forward to.

    • +1000000000

    • Superman and Batman fighting..
      Captain America: “Guys please stop this fighting cut it ou-” gets vaporized while butting in

  29. people are still with general zod’s death? He had no other choice, if he didn’t kill zod then he would have kept fighting until superman died and then would have taken over the world. So supes had no other option ( kill zod or watch the world burn)

    • Something tells me Lex Luthor might want Zod`s corpse for experiment to battle it out against Superman

      • People are quick to assume that Superman just left Zod’s body out there in public to rot as well as all the Kryptonian tech, I don’t beleive that’s the case.

      • Yo maybe you are on to something! Lex might use Zod’s body to perform his experimental endeavors and come up with Bizarro!!That would be awesome!!!