After Nolan’s ‘Dark Knight Rises’: A ‘Dark Knight Returns’ Movie?

Published 4 years ago by , Updated August 9th, 2013 at 11:14 pm,

batman dark knight returns After Nolans Dark Knight Rises: A Dark Knight Returns Movie?

Christopher Nolan is about to make his final trip into Gotham City with The Dark Knight Rises – a film that will bring closure to a trilogy that started with Batman Begins in 2005 and continued with the massively successful The Dark Knight in 2008.

The notoriously tight-lipped filmmaker is keeping the details of his latest Batman movie a secret, but there’s one question even Nolan doesn’t have the answer to — what happens to the Batman franchise after he jumps ship?

The character of Batman means so many different things to so many different people that a definitive celluloid interpretation is impossible. Yet, Nolan seems to have come closer than any of his predecessors and his films will surely cast an intimidating shadow over anyone tasked with succeeding him. For a large number of fans, putting someone else in charge of this series is a nerve-wracking proposition.

There will be more Batman films after The Dark Knight Rises, though — it’s too lucrative a franchise to abandon. And you know the higher-ups at Warner Bros. and DC Comics have had at least a few discussions about a post-Nolan game plan. Which is why a few of us here at Screen Rant think there might be more to the title of this latest film than meets the eye.

dark knight poster2 top After Nolans Dark Knight Rises: A Dark Knight Returns Movie?

Now obviously The Dark Knight Rises isn’t a name that was carelessly picked out of a hat. The Dark Knight didn’t just look cool on a poster — it actually meant something when those three words appeared on screen at the end of that film. So as bland as the new title may sound to me, I’m sure it ties into the story (presumably it references Batman’s redemption in the eyes of Gotham’s citizens).

However, like a lot of you, I was surprised by the repetition of Batman’s nickname. After expecting something as unique and distinctive as The Dark Knight, this strikes me as a very curious move. Now, this is PURELY SPECULATION, but perhaps the studio is eager to brand this franchise and instill name recognition in the large portion of its audience that isn’t familiar with the comic books.

Why would it be so important to hammer the name “Dark Knight” home? Well, it seems to me that this film could just as easily have been called The Dark Knight Returns. Sure, they probably wanted to avoid confusion with Frank Miller’s comic of the same name (or a potential DCU animated adaptation) — but maybe… just maybe… DCE/WB is open to the possibility of a live-action version of Dark Knight Returns somewhere down the road.

the dark knight returns1 After Nolans Dark Knight Rises: A Dark Knight Returns Movie?

The Dark Knight Rises not only leaves the door open for using that other title in the future — it would help make The Dark Knight Returns immediately identifiable as a continuation of the previous films. With Nolan’s departure from the Batman franchise likely on the horizon, this would actually be a logical time to use The Dark Knight Returns as a template of sorts for subsequent Batman sequels.

After The Dark Knight Rises, the studio is left with two choices if they want the franchise to carry on: reboot it again or bring in a new director to work within the guidelines of Nolan’s established universe. Neither approach sounds particularly satisfying to me. Fortunately, bringing The Dark Knight Returns to the big screen solves both problems.

For those of you not familiar with the comic, it tells the story of a 55 year-old Bruce Wayne putting on the cape and cowl after ten years of retirement. He squares off against old enemies, makes some new ones, takes a female Robin under his wing, and discovers that Gotham City is now a very different place for vigilantes.

Although I think Miller’s Year One series is the superior comic, The Dark Knight Returns remains a fan-favorite for good reason: it’s packed with one memorable moment after another and culminates with one of the most iconic fight scenes of all-time: Batman vs. Superman.

darknightreturnsbatssupes After Nolans Dark Knight Rises: A Dark Knight Returns Movie?

Adapting The Dark Knight Returns verbatim would never work as a continuation of Nolan’s films. Harvey Dent plays a prominent role (although some would argue his fate in Nolan’s universe is still unknown), training a new Robin would be a little strange without any predecessors, and of course there’s the previously mentioned red and blue elephant in the room — Superman.

The politics of The Dark Knight Returns are an integral part of its narrative and the idea of Superman being reduced to a pawn of the United States government is powerful stuff. All of the Cold War-era paranoia could be effortlessly updated, but even in a semi-futuristic setting, Supes is just a little too fantastical for this universe. Fortunately, the idea of vigilantes being outlawed would still work without him.

I think the bigger issue is how much of The Dark Knight Rises is devoted to covering similar ground and how much influence The Dark Knight Returns might ultimately have on that film. Luckily, even if they eschew the majority of that subplot there’s still a lot left to work with.

dark knight returns hunt the dark knight After Nolans Dark Knight Rises: A Dark Knight Returns Movie?

For me, the most resonant part of The Dark Knight Returns is the premise itself. Typically, when Batman crosses over into other mediums it’s to detail the beginnings of his war on crime. Quite honestly, I think the character becomes so much more compelling when he’s at the inevitable end of that journey. The qualities that make him so tragic are amplified and I love the idea of this old man forced to make peace with all of his decisions and sacrifices.

The specifics of the story are important, but not essential — at least not for me. What makes The Dark Knight Returns work is watching Bruce Wayne accept who and what he is. Connecting it to Nolan’s films would give it a sense of history and purpose that it wouldn’t carry as a stand-alone effort. I think any adjustments that need to be made to the narrative in order to accomplish that would be well worth it.

And, like I said, the decade-long gap between where established continuity ends and Returns begins would allow a new director to put his stamp on Batman without resorting to a reboot. You could drastically change the look of Gotham and the tone of the film without it feeling incompatible.

How about a Gotham cityscape that’s reminiscent of something out of Blade Runner? It’d actually be a natural evolution, as Nolan was greatly inspired by that film’s visual palette when he made Batman Begins.

blade runner city 01 After Nolans Dark Knight Rises: A Dark Knight Returns Movie?

blade runner city 02 After Nolans Dark Knight Rises: A Dark Knight Returns Movie?

The same goes for the cast — what if Christian Bale, Gary Oldman, and Michael Caine aren’t interested in returning if Nolan’s not calling the shots? No problem. Not only does The Dark Knight Returns allow new actors to take over the lead roles, it almost demands it.

Continue to actors who could play Batman in The Dark Knight Returns

« 1 2»

Get our free email alerts on the topics and author of this article:


Post a Comment

GravatarWant to change your avatar?
Go to and upload your own (we'll wait)!

 Rules: No profanity or personal attacks.
 Use a valid email address or risk being banned from commenting.

If your comment doesn't show up immediately, it may have been flagged for moderation. Please try refreshing the page first, then drop us a note and we'll retrieve it. Keep in mind that we do not allow external links in the comments.

  1. Comics occupy the middle ground between the visuals of a movie and the contemplative narrative of a novel. Miller’s TDKR simply would not have half the impact it did on the page without the internal dialogue it allowed every character – unreproducible without voiceovers, and unworkable with them.

    Chris, Neal Adams isn’t chiefly known for his writing! Also, it’s arguable that TDKR has served as the template for every Batman film already. Tim Burton’s two would not have looked the way they did or diverged as significantly from the almost universally-accepted Adam West “Batusi” version without it. Even Batman Forever lifted the young Bruce Wayne’s discovery of the Batcave directly from it. Wasn’t there even a variation on the lines “There are seven working defences from this position. Three of them disarm with minimal contact. Three of them kill. The other HURTS.”? The Joker without the exaggerated features; The Sons of The Batman: already handled in TDK. The Batmobile as a tank: done twice now.

    Details aside, though, there’s an nihilistic, apocalyptic “end-of-days” feel to TDKR that I don’t think would leave anywhere to go apart from the inevitable reboot anyway.

    • Big Dentist, as always, love hearing your insights, spot on.

    • You’re right, TBD. I meant Steve Englehart.

    • You make a lot of good points, and I had taken into consideration how much influence TDKR has had on other Batman films. But we’re talking primarily about visual influence.

      The idea of other would-be vigilantes exploiting and distorting Batman’s image was BRIEFLY touched on in TDK, but one of the things my friends and I discussed after seeing the film was how we wished they had pushed that a little further or not included it all.

      But like I said, this isn’t about the specifics of the comic book for me. I don’t need (or want) a verbatim adaptation. I didn’t enjoy 300, Watchmen, or even Sin City all that much because for me such reverence for the source material doesn’t immediately equal a great film. As you pointed out, there are differences in the mediums. Which is why I’m suggesting the premise of TDKR as a template- not a bible. Where we disagree is that it wouldn’t work without the inner monologue.

      To be honest, Miller’s incredibly over the top narration is the one thing I dislike the most about a lot of his work (especially Batman). In fact, sometimes he pushes it so far that I could swear he’s actually making fun of the character.

      I like the end of days feel. I think it ties in quite well with an aging Batman heading into battle one last time. For all the stuff that doesn’t translate, I still think the book leaves a tremendous amount to work with. And yes, Miller’s story is nihilistic and a film would probably have to build to a different sort of ending. But there’s so much you could do with the exploration of a person’s legacy and what it’s all meant.

      Yes, a reboot would be essential after this story. But with three more films that have several years between them, it’d be more mileage than we got out of the previous series. My point was that if they were even considering doing a TDKR movie, it would mean more under these circumstances than if it were treated as a one off or “elseworlds” tale.

      It’s probably pretty unlikely we’ll ever see anything like this. The article was only meant to demonstrate how it could work and the potential in the concept itself.

    • why does everyone seem to forget azrael bring him in to help rebuild gotham as the new batman bring in killer croc trying to take over the mob,The Penguin (Oswald Chesterfield Cobblepot) lending money to rebuild gothem with a shoot at mayer have the mad hatter be his nephew,black mask fighting croc for head mobster,Professor Hugo Strange taking over arkham as lead docter with his second in charge be Harley Quinn,hell even have deadshot brought in to help oswald,also they need to start building blackgate prison that alone could make three movies if not more keep nolans batman without bale or replace him then after three movie or four movies bring bale back to fight azreal for the mantle and also bring bane back for a round two

  2. Nolan’s ‘realistic’ grounds for his Bat-films aren’t as limiting as you think. Since it is about the early days of Batman you still have the ability to introduce the aspect of meta-humans and superheroes into that world by showing eventually how Batman has influenced a new culture of superheroes.

  3. You have got to be kidding.
    I cannot believe you are seriously considering some of these actors???
    Age alone is enough to disqualify them………
    I will just believe it is some sort of Halloween prank…….

    • Batman is 55 in TDKR and the way Miller draws him he looks even older than that. Who would be some of your choices?

  4. personally i would love this movie to happen. but it would be so far left field for any conventional audience. to much over the top violence, dark feeling, and an almost untranslatable version of batman. especially coming after nolan’s realistic translation. i think kingdom come would be more worthy of a movie

  5. Ok I see ur Point But if Dc And WB are planning a continuity on this and the Man of Steel Movie and eventually Justice League… Before The Dark Knight Returns what about Knight Fall where Bane Breaks Batmans back and Batman is out for extended period of time with his injury and Azreal and Also More to the point Where is Robin/Nightwing? Batgirl? And Eventually Batmans son Damien….. Lots of things could happen with this. Then Do the The Dark Knight Returns trilogy then on to Batman Beyond trilogy and in between the Justice League……

  6. Ellen Paige could play Robin and a 55 year old Batman that has George Clooney written all over it. Oh wait, just the first bit

  7. I hope TDKR is the last film in what Nolan started, no further sequels get made. I rather see the francise get rebooted again using more characters from the comics and maybe be takin in the same direction as Batman: TAS only in live-action of-course. Or maybe try somthing entirly different and make a live action Batman Beyond film. If they reboot, i wanna see them have villains done properly like Mr. Freeze, Bane, Joker, Penguin, etc etc, & have Robin included in the franchise again. By introducing him the right way, or by having him Robin already and him in every other sequel. What would be really be great is to see bruce witness his parent’s murder for real in Crime Alley at the very Beginning, not have it a dream sequence as previous films shown, then skip to see him as Batman takin out some thugs or somthing.

  8. Why not do a Batmen of all Nations type thing? Others in other countries inspired by Batman to do the same for their homes.

    Or better yet, Batman R.I.P. it could work without all the crazy comic stuff, like Ras Al Ghul brainwashed a word while training Bruce, and Dr. Hurt learns about it and begins to torture Batman.

    There, you have the moral conflict Joker presented, and the fear Scarecrow presented, in a manner where Batman is fighting himself!

  9. Long time reader. First time poster. Love the site :-)

    Personally, I love Nolan’s reality take on Batman and Bale’s performance. I do like the idea of leaving TDKR as an option years from now.

    But, I wouldn’t be surprised if Nolan threw a curve ball and had Batman die in action in order to bring closure to his Batman universe. I think it’d be a fitting end. Bruce is revealed as Batman. A true testament for his love of Gotham. Alfred standing over the Wayne’s family graves saying his goodbyes.

  10. The possibility of Sony deciding to reboot Batman again, maybe in 2015 (if Nolan doesn’t continue) is very, very high. I am hoping that WB don’t do what Sony has done with the Spider-Man franchise.
    With the HP movies finishing up next summer, WB will desperate to keep the Batman franchise in check, with high quality movies…and keep the tone and feel of the Nolan series. There is no way WB will revert back to Schumacher tone while trying to capture the “Twilight” movie fan base.
    Personally, i would throw money at Nolan. Ask him to be a producer, get him on board, get him to select a suitable director….

    Not sure that WB will be interested in making The Dark Knight Returns. Batman at 55 years old?? That won’t happen yet….
    I would like to see a younger less commercial director taking the directors reins… someone like Duncan Jones (moon) or Gareth Edwards (Monsters)…with Nolan and his mates as the “godfathers”.

    The Batman movies will live on with or without Nolan and Co. But are WB smart enough to realize that the current Batman series is the right track to continue or will they ***k up Nolan’s work and aim for the Twilight audience???

  11. I rather have WB reboot Batman again and let Nolan’s films be. Id like to see the films expand, with more characters, supporting or otherwise. With first film starting with his parents actual murder takin place in Crime Alley, not having it a dream sequence, besides having Gordon comforting a young Bruce Wayne, have Leslie Thompkins aswell who was a family friend of the Wayne’s and always someone Bruce could go to when he was badly hurt and could’t see a doctor at the hospital. Besides Gordon, Renee Montoya would be another supporting character while having Harvey Bullock not fond of Batman. And Introduce Robin again properly and only have him in every other sequel. All you might realize these ideas come from Batman:TAS which i think would be great ideas for film adaptions if done right and by the right people.

  12. If I can throw my 2cents in here, I don’t have a problem with the ages of the actors that were mentioned, but I don’t think the bigger Hollywood names should be used, like Russell, Quaid (that one’s really far off, when’s the last time he made a decent movie… dude is done being offered big roles I think and will be resorting to silly kids movies by that time), Willis, Crowe, etc. They just have too much of an established persona to take on a role like this I think. Same as watching Clooney and Kilmer I’d say, I never could really get into it and I don’t think they did either (didn’t help that the movies just weren’t good as well). But I can see how you wouldn’t want an unknown actor either. Sean Bean is a decent choice I’d say though. The one that pops into my head is Clive Owen. He’s 46 now so if they wait a few years to make it he’d be close in age and he can play a bad ass pretty well (Sin City).

  13. Id say bring back micheal Keaton for the dark knight returns.

  14. How about A Superman/Batman film getting off the ground?

  15. Realism = Lack of an imagination and creativity. Anyone can do realism in art, movies, and novels. It doesn’t take an imagination or a stretch of creativity to turn every comic-book into a realistic version of itself.

    • Realism is boring, dull, and ugly.

      • @Marcus

        I draw face-portraits as a past-time.

        Have you ever tried your hand at abstract (imaginary) paintings? They are easy to draw and one has no limits/restrictions to which they can drawn/extended. Yet, they have no real meaning.


        …have you ever tried to draw your beloved’s face-portrait trying to match it up with her face as much as possible? Now you are bounded by ***Realism*** and that makes the task challenging, engaging, interesting and beautiful as you just can’t take your own freedoms in order to complete the whole picture and yet make it sensible and recognisable enough.

        See the picture (pun intended)??

    • @Marcus:

      But it requires Imagination and Creativity to put absurd imaginary/created characters from a Batman-world into Realism. So…Nolan is imaginative and creative.

    • @Marcus

      (“Anyone can do realism in art, movies,…”)

      I say, anyone can do absurd imagination and creations which are non-functional, non-workable and that too…TO NON-STOP LIMITS. But to do imaginations or creations that ARE FUNCTIONAL and WORKABLE, it still requires (you guessed it)… imagination and creativity. Eg: Scarecrow/Ra’s AL Ghul from Nolan’s world.

      • I agree with you on this…exactly what Joel Schumacher disastrously did to the batman series…Nolan’s realistic reboot was what the series needed, I honestly for one gave up on Batman after Batman Forever…

        • @ Reshable

          Actually (IMO) Warner Bros are mostly responsible for the outcome of the previous Batman franchise while Schumacher is at fault for bad ideas like nipples on the costumes, and close ups of rear ends.

    • my thoughts exactly!

  16. Michael are you F#@*%ng kidding me!? Have you seen him lately? He is old fat and looks awful..let himself go too much booze and pills.. fresh guys think fresh..I never understood why some you keep hoping for geriatric old dudes ..When there’s newer more up coming actors..How About Vin -diesel batman..yea i know., but well., better than some ideas i heard ..better than Ben

    • Yes because VD is such a great actor. I saw Keaton in the Other Guys and he wasn’t fat…. also being OLD is the point of DKR. Or didn’t you know that? Im thinking you didn’t.

  17. I just want the next Batman movie after The Dark Knight Rises to feature Robin(Dick Grayson) and start a new trilogy with Batman and Robin and end the trilogy with Dick becoming Nightwing and Tim Drake becoming Robin and perhaps have a seventh movie be The Dark Knight Returns. I heard a while back that WB wants to make the new Batman movie franchise like Harry Potter and have seven new Batman movies.

    • @ Ron Corless

      I agree with ya. After Nolan’s 3rd film, I rather see them reboot the Batman franchise again. Like you said include Robin again properly and I suggest they make the films almost similiar to what Batman: TAS was. Maybe open up the first film with Bruce’s parents being murdered in Crime Alley by Joe Chill & not have it be a flashback as seen in previous films. And have it skip years ahead, maybe with Batman on a rooftop opening his eyes and spotting in the same place where his parents died even or some random place, doesn’t matter. In the sequel introduce Dick Grayson only with him putting on his costume at the very end. Have Dick’s parents be murdered by Tony Zucco this time. Use characters like Leslie Thompkins & Renee Montoya as supporting characters. Id like to see Joker with Harley Quinn by his side and Bane done properly etc. Im not too fond of seeing a old Batman from Frank Miller’s comics, especially with Kelly who’s Robin. If i wanted to see a old Bruce Wayne, id like someone to try makin a live action Batman Beyond film.

  18. What about concurrent Batman movies? A ‘Batman’ franchise and ‘A Dark Knight’ one? After ‘Rises’ is released start a brand new series of films to keep under the ‘Batman’ name and then maybe 10 years from now Nolan and an aged up, original cast be brought back under ‘The Dark Knight’ name to provide the definitive end to their story.

    I agree with what Alan Moore said in his foreword to ‘Dark Knight Returns’ book,

    ‘Miller has… managed to shape The Batman into a true legend by introducing that element without which all true legends are incomplete and yet which for some reason hardly seems to exist in the world depicted in the average comic book, and that element is time.’

    Nolan tackling The Batman universe where he is a full blown legend is something that just gives me chills.

  19. To be honest I can actually see Nolan using elements of DKR in this next film. And in a way I am hoping for it. I know there are a lot of elements that would have to be removed but the basic plot is there. The very ending of TDK sets it up. Batman has been away for a while and Gotham is suffering because of it. Couple that with the urge inside of him that led him to become Batman and he “returns”. Again, I know there are elements that just won’t work in Nolan’s Gotham but we see this done time and time again with Novels & comics. And if I am not mistaking he already used a elememt of DKR in Batman Begins. Scarecrow was using some sort of chemical agent that made you live in your worst fears and it drove you insane. That took place in DKR I think that it was the Joker who used it though. I haven’t read it in over 10 years. Any way these are just my thoughts. All I care about is that we get another great film and that some how after Nolan says goodbye to Batman we will not have to and whoever takes over dosen’t go the route other directors did. I’m talking to you Joel Schumacher…

  20. I know that I’m a little late for the party, but I figured I would chime in anyways because after reading this article a while back, I cannot get over the idea of Josh Brolin for an older Batman, which this article gave me the idea of, while I’ve also noticed him mentioned for an older Batman in fan circles online before on other sites. Anyways here are my reasons.

    First off, I feel like he kind of looks like an older Bale, check it:
    Well I see it if nobody else does. Second off, I also love the idea of no matter what, Warner Bros. going older for the next role after Nolan’s franchise. It would be refreshing to see a more in experience Batman in a franchise over one who is still learning (not knocking Bale’s Batman at all with that, would just be a different change of pace).

    I also love the idea of another critically acclaimed actor taking on the role, something that seems to be a trend with most of the actors who have played the role (though Clooney didn’t get that type of recognition till after he played Batman). But seriously, both Bale and Brolin have impressive, even similar filmographies with the directors they’ve worked with and the work that they have put in. Also, Brolin is a great character actor, so I could definitely see him bringing a lot of layers and depth to his version of Bruce Wayne. And he’s done a good amount of roles where he’s played business like men (Milk, Wall Street 2), as well as good men (No Country for Old Men), which show why he would be great as Bruce Wayne and Batman. Heck, the guy has even played decetive type of roles before (American Gangster).

    And yes, Jonah Hex was horrible, but at least it showed that Brolin wouldn’t mind being in a comic book movie, and for these type of movies, it can be a good thing to get in with the DC family (kind of like how Watchmen did for Zach Snyder). And I bet he would like a chance to redeem his status in the geek community if he got a shot at Batman.

    I know, I know we’re still a while’s away from The Dark Knight Rises, and I have no idea as to what Warner Bros. have planned for Batman when Nolan is done, heck I don’t even know if Bale will even be ready step down from the role once they complete their trilogy, though I keep thinking it would make sense because he probably wouldn’t want to continue without Nolan.

    I don’t even know who would be a great director either to take on the franchise when the current one is over, I just know that I feel like it would be too perfect for Brolin to play the role in a new franchise of the character. Anybody agree? I’m sure some will disagree, and you may have your reasons. I just know I will be disappointed no matter what if the role has to be recast (as in Bale like Nolan is done with Batman 3) and he’s not picked.

    I love this idea so much that I almost feel the need to start a fan campaign for it. Probably too early for that though lol.

  21. No no no no no, DC/Warner can carry on in they’re old world for a few years and do what ever they want with their other franchises but they should leave Batman alone and I’m saying 15 years time Nolan and Bale come back and shoot Dark Knight Returns as the final time Batman will be on screen for that generation… that would be blessed.

  22. sounds like a lot of hoo-ha!!!

    a live action “Dark Knight Returns” would be a mistake!
    the only person i could see pulling this off would be Frank Miller himself!

    and if Warner ever did get Miller to direct a Batman movie (or movies)
    it would be better to see him do something fresh, something with his unique visual style
    something we’ve never seen done with Batman before!

    The Dark Knight Returns would make an excellent choice as one of the DC animated features.
    but the majority of the non-comic reading live action movie goers just wouldn’t get it!
    and that could possibly harm the franchise.

    but whoever does take over Batman films, i hope they bring the fantasy element back to the story!

    i find this ultra real world Batman too much like a courtroom drama! gets boring after a while!

  23. I think this would be a good CARTOON film to make. Similar to the recent “Under The Red Hood” film. Reason being cause then they could 1.Possibly use Frank Miller as the artist(and it would be more true to this comic) and 2 It could also use different actor’s PERSONALLY if they do this I think the best Bat-Man to use for a voice would POSSIBLY be Michael Keaton or MAYBE the one from the animated series.

  24. One, your Photoshop skills DON’T suck

    Two, Brad Dourif is an EXCELLENT choice for the Joker…consider:

    a. He voiced Chucky in the Child’s Play/Chucky spinoff films.

    b. Played “Crewman Lon Suder” in 3 episodes of “Star Trek: Voyager”; quoting from Memory Alpha, the Star Trek database: “Suder was a Betazoid but unlike most of his species he seemed not to be empathic or telepathic. It is possible that this was related to his other personality disorders. He joined the Maquis in 2370, though his homeworld was not under threat. He worked under Chakotay and was an effective member of the Maquis although he did not engender much affection from his colleagues. They regarded him as too efficient when killing Cardassians and this made them uncomfortable around him. In fact, Suder was using the Maquis as a release valve for his unnaturally violent nature.

    Once aboard Voyager, his violent tendencies did not have an outlet and eventually he lost control, killing Crewman Frank Darwin in 2372. A quick investigation by Tuvok uncovered his crime and he was put under house arrest in his quarters. An experimental Vulcan mind meld by Tuvok was carried out with the aim of helping Suder to control his impulses. While to some extent it was effective, the resulting trauma to the Vulcan’s emotional systems resulted in him losing some of his own control, becoming dangerous and violent. Suder was indefinitely confined to his quarters for his crime. (VOY: “Meld”)

    Over the next few months, Suder worked with Tuvok to maintain his self control and began to find enjoyment in other activities. He started work on Orchid breeding and eventually became proficient at genetic manipulation of plants. He had plans to use this talent to increase the output of the ship’s airponics bay (VOY: “Basics, Part I”). This progress came to a halt when Kazon-Nistrim agent Jal Tierna detonated a biological explosive on Voyager. The explosion took place adjacent to Suder’s quarters and the Betazoid was believed killed. While the ship was taken over by the Kazon, Suder hid in an access conduit and managed to make it to sickbay where he found The Doctor, who was already planning to retake the ship when Suder arrived. During their sabotage efforts, Suder was forced to kill a Kazon soldier. Despite The Doctor’s assurances that he had done the right thing, he succumbed to a panic attack as he had been working so hard to avoid his violent impulses.

    After The Doctor was deactivated by Seska, Suder was left alone to disable the backup phaser couplings, but was slightly comforted by a message The Doctor had left him, in which he assured Suder that he had The Doctor’s complete confidence; Suder had already shown great loyalty and dedication to his crew. With this in mind, Suder was able to sneak into engineering and launch a surprise attack, killing eleven Kazon soldiers single-handedly. After killing the Kazon that were holding engineering, he was able to sabotage the backup phaser coil, causing it to explode when it was activated (Tom Paris having disabled the primary couplings). He was killed by a Kazon soldier in the process. After the crew were back on Voyager, Tuvok spoke briefly over Suder’s body after The Doctor and Paris had told him of Suder’s heroism, offering him a Vulcan prayer wishing that, in death, Suder found the peace that he could never achieve in life. (VOY: “Basics, Part II”)

    He would later be named on a list of telepathic casualties Devore Commander Kashyk confronted Captain Janeway about in 2375. He was the only member of the list actually dead, the rest hiding in transporter suspension. Janeway explained to Kashyk that Suder died in a “conflict with a species called the Kazon.” (VOY: “Counterpoint”) “

    • @ danlister

      You know, i never thought of Brad Dourif. If he was younger, i too think he would a great choice to be Joker. I always loved the way he laughed in the Child’s Play films & him in Joker make-up, i can see your point there.

  25. Well first off what really messes up a sequel or a series of sequels is when an actor doesnt return. That really screws up the story, like Maggie glynhaal replacing katie holmes in the dark knight. And Heath ledgers death allowing noone to replace him in Dark knight RISES. But if you watch the tv show Batman their were multiple villians. And the joker was the leader of the pack and they had episodes where all the villians were in one room taking orders from The leader the Joker. So not introducing Robin and or batgirl as sidekicks really messes up the whole Batman story. Superhero movies like this really need and endless amount of sequels because their were so many villians and theirs not enough time to explain all the villians orgins and how they became bad people like The old Tim Burtons Batman did. Just tell a good solid story.

    • @ Gabriel C. Jones

      I liked Ledger’s performance as the Joker aswell but imo there could always be a chance somone could replace him whether it’s in Nolan’s franchise or in the next reboot. But anyways i rather have the 3rd film conclude Nolan’s franchise.

      • Wally, there you are…

        On the CA comic/film comparison thread, you insulted me for some strange reason, and I wish to know why. I waited paitiently on that thread for your response…now, here we are.

        • @ Archaeon


          • On that “Captain America” movie/comic comparison thread, I was dealing with the annoying immaturity of Timothy Longbottom when you popped up out of nowhere and commented that I need psychological help.


            • @ Archaeon

              I can’t remember the last time i posted on that thread & it’s not my thing to insult you by saying somthing like that. Im at a lost & think maybe you got me confused with someone else. I don’t make personal insults if things get heated. I drop myself from the discussion.

              • Wally West 1 day ago

                Wow Arch, you need psychological help.


                Archaeon 1 day ago


                WHY do you say that?

                Wally…THIS is what I’m talking about…Normally I wouldn’t have given it a second thought, but you DON’T usually say things like that. Also, this seemed to just come out of the blue. Maybe, you were simply making an off-handed joke and promptly forgot about it, but I was surprised…especially after having had to deal with three other people earlier.

                • @ Archaeon

                  I seriously don’t remember saying that. If i did, i apoligize for it. Do you know the title of the thread where i can read it?

                  • i wouldn’t worry about it.

                    sound’s like nothing you should concern yourself over!

                    he’ll live!

                  • Wally…

                    Though I should be the one to tell you that, Michael is right…I appreciate the apology, but it wasn’t killing me. The reason I even pursued it at all was because it caught me off-guard. I had gotten through dealing with three other people and was surprised.

                    We’re square. :D

  26. the videogame Batman Arkham Asylum was better than any Batman movie i’ve ever seen in my life!!!!

    it was the perfect portrayal of Batman, his villains and supporting characters!

    want to see Gotham City perfection? take a look at Batman Arkham City!!!

    if they could make a Batman Movie franchise THAT GOOD!?
    it would easily be the greatest comic book movie EVER made!!!!!!

  27. I don’t know why no one has said anything anywhere about Hamill!! After A. seeing (well hearing) him in Batman Arkham City and thinking back to those dark episodes of the first Batman The Animated Series, i can’t think of a better pick for the Joker. The guy lives and breathes him and is very protective of what he does with the character and understands him. He plays The Joker’s personality in Arkham CITY to a TEE to that of TDK’s joker. If you go look at him now day’s too, he is the perfect age. Just like the joker looked in those up close shot’s in TDK. All the right wrinkles!

    • * Just like the joker looked in the up close and detailed parts of tdkR

  28. I don’t see a reboot.. Honestly if was wb I would do everything in my power to keep this cast, 2nd movie was one of the best hero films of all time, now people want him gone for an older actor, I don’t honestly I see him being tw face of batman just like chris re. For superman, do this movie, wait 2 years get an idea about where they want the next set of the story to go them film, honestly with superman and batman in the same year I could see the batman movies slowing down so they olny have one in production at a time an then go everyother year, honestly when all said and done :/ just want more movies and I hate reboots with young actors it ruins the films for the fans, and spiderman is learning that, if you want a movie( batman future style where he like 80 go Clint Eastwood) but if it was me if say keep the cast, break the bat, have a 4th installment introducing robin possible bgirl then from there add a killer crock or new villain we yet to see( crock hates bane two take him down story) then for a 5th movie move robin a little older(20′s) and bat bout 40-50 and there finally getting into it non stop then a 6th movie( still bale and a new actor and make a nightwing film honestly think that would be the best plot- a full on batman series of films

    • it just won’t happen, they are lucky this cast is even doing a 3rd act.
      and if they try to continue this same franchise with other outside forces the outcome would suffer greatly!
      the need to hand it over to a new visionary so he can flex his artistic muscle.
      once you have an artist try and mimic another artist what you get is always just a cheap knock off.

      plus this ultra real universe Nolan has made for Gotham, Killer Croc would not even exist!!!!
      no Croc, no Freeze, no Poison Ivy, no Man-Bat.

      all the villains i the Nolanverse are just Batman Rouges re-imaged as modern day terrorists.
      and after a while that gets really old.

  29. Can someone PLEASE send this to Warner Bros? I mean like now!! Great article.