Should Two-Face & The Joker Return In Batman 3?
Aug 27, 2009 by Kofi OutlawThe pros and cons of bringing these two back – and what are the alternatives.
We here at Screen Rant recently asked the question, “What Will Batman 3 Be About?” The third installment of Christopher Nolan’s Batman franchise is easily one of the most anticipated sequels ever – as evidenced by the HUGE outpouring of reader reaction our article is STILL receiving.
Out of the 350+ comments left by you Batman fans, two clear points of debate raged longest and hardest throughout the thread of discussion. After seeing the sparks of that debate, we thought it only fitting that we should fan it into a brush fire. So, without further ado I now ask:
Should Two-Face and The Joker be brought back for Batman 3?
THE NEW IMPORTANCE OF THE VILLAIN
One of the things I really appreciated about Batman Begins and The Dark Knight was that it was clear with both films that scribes Chris and John Nolan and David S. Goyer all truly understood the character of Batman and the universe that he inhabited. More than that, the writers also had a keen eye for what made all of Batman’s supporting characters and (most importantly) the villains in his rogues gallery tick. If I have one criticism of Burton’s Batman films, it’s that the villains were mainly evil foils for Batman, there more for (wonderful) theatrics rather than any sort of pointed reason.
In Nolan’s films, the villains (for the most part) have carried much more dramatic weight. Certainly that’s true for The Dark Knight: The Joker wasn’t just there for show of a trademark smile (cough, cough), he added actual thematic meaning to the story, as did Harvey/Two-Face. And for that matter, so did Ra’s al Ghul in Batman Begins (Bruce Wayne twisted by anger).
There has been some debate about whether Batman 3 should position itself as a direct sequel to The Dark Knight, or perhaps as more of a standalone story, set long after TDK. In either case, if Nolan is at the helm you know that whatever villain(s) go into the script will only be in there if they add weight and meaning to the story. And while it would be a novel kick to see a few new villains rolled out for a flashy sequel, if Batman 3 is to be set directly after Dark Knight then there is still a lot of narrative weight still hanging on both The Joker and Harvey/Two-Face.
So do you bring them back?
.
TWO-FACE
Ok, so fans have said it; Nolan has said it; and even Dark Knight star Aaron Eckhart (eventually) said it:
Harvey Dent dies at the end of The Dark Knight. End of story.
However, as many of our readers have pointed out, that “death” marks the end of Harvey Dent’s story. Two-Face has a story all his (their?) own to tell.
I’m going to be honest: I’ve already argued that Batman 3 should bring back Two-Face, so I’m not going to pretend here that I’m not already in favor of that option. TDK did a great job exploring Harvey Dent, what he meant to Gotham and what it meant when he “fell from grace.” Nonetheless, I feel like there is still so much to explore in the character of TWO-FACE, and who that character becomes after the last remnants of Harvey Dent are (seemingly) gone.
Seeing Harvey fully transformed into Two-Face would add the kind of weight and hopelessness which (I think we all believe) is going to be a necessary starting point for Batman’s character in the next film. Picture it: The Caped Crusader is low. He’s hunted. He’s alone. He’s sacrificed much. Lost so much. He’s trying hard to maintain but there is Two-Face, always staring back as a testament to his failure, as morally complicated and conflicted as Batman himself.
Suddenly this character doesn’t sound as creatively exhausted as people are claiming, does he?
Another point of convergence in a lot of our reader comments was that any Dark Knight sequel should involve a flat-out war for control of Gotham City. Of those who held such an opinion, a large percentage also thought that B3 should be titled Gotham City for that very reason. If that is the direction the film goes in, then absolutely Two-Face would be an important cornerstone of the story. After all, as a D.A. Harvey Dent knew the entire inner workings of Gotham city’s businesses, political network, banking network, legal system, prison system, etc… If there was some kind of epic showdown for Gotham, then Two-Face would be one of the most crucial pieces on the chessboard.
Black Mask in Batman 3? (Click image for source)
Of course a lot of people have said that B3 should feature the criminal mastermind Black Mask (above), a classic Bat-villain who has recently enjoyed something of a resurgence in the comic books. But I have to ask: why drag us all through yet another villain origin story, just to maneuver said villain into a position (a crime boss connected all over Gotham) that you could fill with a villain the audience already knows and (for the most part) loves? Putting Two-Face into play frees the story up to introduce whatever secondary villains it wants, without having to exhaust a lot of time getting into their origins.
For example: Two-Face could approach Black Mask, The Penguin or whoever, deliver a few expository lines of dialogue to fill us in on who the villain is, and how he/she fits into the scheme of Gotham (based on his knowledge as a D.A.), and bada-bing, bada-boom, we’ve got a new player in the game, no time wasted.
So where’s the down-side of bringing Two-Face back? “Because it’s boring?” “Because it’s beating a dead horse?”
IMHO, if you truly understand why the character has been so pivotal and important to the Batman universe (I’d rank him #3 behind The Joker and Catwoman), then you should also understand just how much cinematic juice is left in this character. How do you NOT go after that juice when you know you’ve got an actor (Eckhart) who can truly apply the squeeze? Do people really think performances like his just just come with every Summer Movie Blockbuster?
UPDATE: Here’s what Two-Face himself (Aaron Eckhart) has to say on the subject:
MY VOTE: Bring back Two-Face!
Continue reading for pro/con arguments on whether the Joker should return…
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Ahhh… Not just curse words then… I’m sorry then. Also thanks for the civil and educated compliment there… You truly are the bigger man ( literally, i’m only like 5’6 or 5’7). Yes we do tend to disagree and all but like i said in the other thread i don’t really do it to be negative towards you… Its just that i see things differently is all.
@Ken j
the response comment is up above there towards the whole nolan-verse comment i had made earlier.
the joker needs to come back! people used to say that nobody could do it better than nicholson and now they say that nobody can do it better than ledger i think there is plenty of actors to do the job like jhonny depp or jason gordon levitt etc.. i think the joker should come back and if they put bane they will have to put azrael wich i think would fit well with this realistic view of nolan’s batman but this event would have to be long after the dark knight story wise.
Michael,
Great concept, bada** actor and its plausible. Only thing and this is me personally, but I always imagine characters such as Bane, Juggernaut, Venom, Killer Croc, Doomsday, Darkseid and a few others to be bigger than a car.
@Hector
and two face was scarred by acid, Joker doesnt wear make up, and Ra’s al Gaul is immortal, as long as its in the nolan-verse i am fine with the characters being changed physically as long as its not that drastic, and it could be more like a mix of classic bane and the Bane of recent time, (hes off the venom and he is more like Deathstroke than Doomsday) and people on drugs like PCP have been known to lift cars and tears apart bodies even if the user is 130 lbs and 5’3, imagine what a 6’2 230 lbs man could do on a more concentrated PCP-esque drug. Size does matter, but imo it could be sacrificed this one time…:D
Jago, I just wanted to point out that the Olsen twins are of the age of consent. They could date Hugh Hefner and there wouldn’t be a legal problem with that.
I like Bane. I think there’s a lot Nolan could work with the drug addiction, the extreme intelligence and the amazing athleticism. I also think that the third film will have to challenge Batman more physically than the last one did. That being said, I would like it more if Robin were around. They could perhaps someday make an amalgam movie that crossed wires between Knightfall and Battle for the Cowl. That’s just my fanboy fantasy; I’m sure Nolan could make this character shine.
But again, even if they either get a new actor or go the Crow route, I think this film will only suffer, the more you make it comparable to TDK. Therefore, the Joker as a feature almost automatically, guaranteed, makes the film worse. Everyone on every side is expecting something amazing from this, and on the business side of it, it sounds like anything less will not get made.
That being said, a nod at the Joker somewhere in there is not only likely, it makes the film better by showing that Bats has a future war on his hands when that guy gets out. They could maybe even give him a role like the Calendar Man, where Bats comes to him for advice (though that’s unlikely, as it’s a big nod to Hannibal Lector).
Meh, I’m talking outta my rear again.
They need to move on; they can’t ride TDK’s coattails at all, except to continue the story and provide a solid conclusion to the films as a whole. If they go with Bane, they’ll almost certainly spring the Joker at some point. I don’t think they’ll do that, even if I would.
I also think their strongest move right now is to introduce Robin. But that won’t happen.
@simon
lol… its not about the age… it was about being with the one of the olsens (yucky,lol) but also he was on drugs right? If he wasn’t on it or wasn’t found with drugs i’ll take back my comment. The Comment about how lots of people glorify the dead i won’t take back though… i didn’t care for ledger beforehand and eventhough i liked his performance in this movie it still doesn’t change the fact that i could care less about his movies (except Lords of Dogtown and the Brothers Grimm and it was more of everybody else’s performance rather then his… he just happen to be in the movie). I know it sounds harsh but in reality i don’t know this person nor did i care for this person so why should i praise him as this creme de la creme actor because of one performance…? but that’s just my opinion.
@Jago
Meh. I guess I’m a little more lenient. I think Ledger had a lot of talent, and his screen performances and his relationship with his family is his legacy. I’m never going to knock one (because he really did a good job every time I saw him) or the other (because no one should sully the memory of a loved one). You’re entitled to your opinion, of course, but I don’t see the point of frowning on letting people mourn. Like him or not, in this series, he pwned that part. So replacing him not only is risky in an aspect of artistry, but it could be a tasteless move as well (because generally respecting the dead is a good thing).
@simon
yes generally respecting the dead is good i will agree on that but some don’t just do that… They take it to another extreme. Now yes i did want him replaced but up above i clearly said that both the joker and two face should not return. I meant for him to be replaced in the reboot after the nolan trilogy (like i also mentioned up above). His legacy with his family is respectable but at the same time its not like he’s the only person treats their family good… I’m not saying that your saying that but lots of people do take it to those extremes. Now again i don’t personally know him… Just based on what i read and peoples reactions towards him that i’ve made my comments from. I’ve known ( that i have personally met several times) several to lots of people that didn’t like and/or care about him until he died… Then all of a sudden there huge fans of all his work ( you understand now what i’m saying). So again not just hating on him to hate… I did like him as the joker ( wasn’t my favorite joker but did like him) i’m just pointing out what i’ve seen. Ledger was just one example of certain people glorifying death… Elvis, Tupac, etc are several others.
@Jago
Yes I agree, nutriders in general are shallow and annoying, and doubtless if I died today many people who don’t know/care about me will show up and exonerate me as a better person than I am, and I will haunt them for it.
But obviously he’s not the only person who treated his family well. Why the need for comparison? I just don’t like the idea of a person getting shredded post-mortem, upsetting their surviving family. Let them have some measure of peace about it, so they can heal. Not that they’d necessarily read what some yahoos like us’ll write, but still…
I do agree that this kind of lifestyle gets tangentially glorified by these deaths, perhaps even moreso than the reckless example of living they put out. But what to do about that now, except to make them the example (albeit with some sensitivity, as mentioned already) to not do that stuff.
@Hector
(“The rationale is that the Villains that are presented in the Nolan Universe of Batman would be escalated to the point that only Batman can stop them.”)
Got your point related to Escalation, man. Yup, Any bat-foe can be escalated. Infact I admit I never had observed that point when I watched Nolan’s Batman. It’s amazing how Nolan’s movies, Batman or Non-Batman, have so many sides to them, so many deep aspects, that ALL viewers can’t capture ALL the aspects at the SAME time. That’s the greatness of Nolan. But still… perhaps the only aspect that I disagree with you still is the WAY of Escalation of Riddler. You did not give your opinion on “my”(traditional) way of the Riddler “Killing” people: You still get a Badass Riddler (which is what we both want). And someone gets “killed” DUE TO him (which is what you want). And he is not obsessed with somebody’s death or killing by himself personally (which is what I want). I would like to know your opinion on my Type-I who can lead to death while not killing himself. What do you say (especially the about the deaths)? (Now don’t just say: “Your’s is a Traditional Riddler n is one of the ways a Riddler can be.”)
@Jago
I agree on several points. I also enjoyed Batman Begins far more than The Dark Knight. To me I felt BB flowed more smoothly, while TDK felt a little chopped up, namely the end which had pretty horrible pacing and sloppy story-telling.
I also agree that people definitely glorify the dead. It’s pretty natural, people feel obligated to as a sign of respect. It’s culturally unacceptable to insult someone who has just died. That’s why I have to put the “Ted Kennedy’s car has killed more people than my personal firearms” jokes aside for maybe a few more months…
But I disagree a little that Ledger wasn’t good and I also personally like the recent move toward more believability and realism in comic book movies.
But despite thinking Ledger’s performance was good, I do agree that the general public’s opinion of his performance have been greatly bolstered by his death. Sorry to say…
Look at the other times this has happened. When Johnny Cash died, he had a new CD that had one single that made it on country radio. Neither that single nor that album was actually number one on the charts, yet he won just about every CMT award that year. While Toby Keith was had all of the number ones, was nominated 8 times, but won none since Cash was in most of the categories he was in and he basically stole all of those awards. Then a few years ago, that moron Kanye West’s mother dies from PLASTIC SURGERY from an UNLICENSED person playing doctor, and he won a bunch of awards for it. If Liam Neeson’s wife would have died closer to the oscars I bet he would take a few home, but they will probably forget by then or some other star who has a movie out will bite the big one by then and take the limelight.
Sorry to sound insensitive, but I just notice that this happens all the time.
The Joker as portrayed in this new game Arkham Asylum, that’s how I would have imagined a Joker on the big screen. Wacky but insanely deadly at the same time. There’s something creepy about a guy that can make you laugh, then kill you, then laugh himself… I mean, seriously, in the game, he doesn’t only tries to kill Batman and taunts him, he sets up traps on his own goons and taunts his own guys. He’s just that much of a psychopath that he really doesn’t care who he kills, it’s all hilarious to him.
But I’m not bringing this up as an idea for the next movie, I think they should have a new villain, just saying that it could have worked for TDK.
My personal choices are still Bane or Killer Croc both modified from their comic versions to be a little more realistic. But NEITHER of them as main villains, I just wanted to see Batman go up against someone much stronger physically than him. There needs to be some kind of “intellectual” to be running the show as the main villain. But not too keen on Riddler… I think, hm, TWO-FACE maybe?? I hope so, he’s such a great villain. Although Bruce Timm’s vision of Two-Face I think made for a better villain since he made Dent and Wayne best buddies before Dent became Two-Face. It’s too bad they didn’t go for that angle, what a great dynamic that would have been. Batman is not trying to take down an evil villain but trying to save his best friend…
@ken j
they did that in ” the batman” cartoon… Except not with two-face but with clayface. The guy that turns into clayface was childhood friends with bruce and joker one day sprays him with this gas or liquid that turned things into clay ( he had this machine cause he was remodeling other statues to look a little more… Smiley). So him taking down clayface was really him trying to save a friend. I think they used that story line since two-face was never shown in the short 5 season series.
P.S… Joker trying out the bomb on the gargoyle whilst his goon was up there was priceless…
@jago
That sounds really dumb… TAS’s story for Clayface was much better in my opinion, and Dent being Wayne’s friend makes much more sense. ADA running for DA and a powerful figure of Gotham are bound to know each other. More importantly, it makes sense that they both could have gone to the same university but went different routes. One to a law degree the other to a business degree.
Clayface was an actor…
In TAS, the guy who becomes Clayface is a big hollywood actor, and he’s known for being able to play almost any role as if he can alter his face. While in fact, he CAN alter his face, but it’s thanks to this non-approved cream that makes your skin like clay. The only problem is, he’s been using it so much that without using it constantly, his face just droops. But he gets into financial trouble and can’t continue to pay for this cream, but he’s addicted to it and needs it. So one night he breaks into the factory that makes this cream, but gets caught red-handed. The company, not besides illegal practices, decides to punish him not paying them for previous amounts and for trying to steal more by throwing him into a large drum of this stuff, thinking it would just “melt” him and kill him. But of course, he becomes clayface instead…
See, so much more complicated and smarter than Joker sprays him in the face with “make-things-malleable-like-clay” spray…
I’m sorry, but I really dislike almost everything about “The Batman.” Too childish in my opinion.
@Amol and Hector
BB and TDK had different themes. TDK was about escalation, but BB was about justice, or at least becoming a legend. And the Joker WAS the villain that only Batman could stop…as was Two-Face, and R’as al Ghul, and Scarecrow.
The theme of Batman 3 will probably NOT be redemption. Batman isn’t in a position to need redemption; as Batman said, “I’m whatever Gotham needs me to be,” and as Gordon said when his son asked why Batman was running, “Because we have to chase him.” To say the third will be about redemption suggests Batman must redeem himself to Gotham. But I think the case will more likely be Gotham learning it needs Batman; it is Gotham that needs redeemed, which only Batman can do.
As I’ve been saying: there is a power vacuum now. The Joker killed the mob. The DA is dead. The only power that was causing the darkness to flee, Batman, is now the object of Gotham’s wrath. The chaos the Joker began will continue, as chaos does, until someone brings order.
Pick up the graphic novel, The Dark Knight Returns. That is exactly what it’s about.
Personally I prefer the Joker returns, because he’s the only one who can cause more surprises and pose tough questions on batman. I am sure someone out there can be as good as Heath, after all his lines and themes are written by Nolan & Goyer, Heath just delivered with passion and hard work. If it’s gonna be a lose-lose situation, might as well have your no. 1 guy out there, right?
If he’s not there, I’d have Black Mask+Riddler, with a normal Selina Kyle without turning her into catwoman in this one.
Just thinking, do you really need an origin for Black Mask? Can’t he be like the Joker, he’s just there?
I would have Black Mask cleaning up the remaining mobs and take charge against the cops, then the Riddler comes in to help Gordon catch Black Mask, then gets the resource to investigate batman, then turns around and leaks vital info. to the gangs and frees Black Mask, only way between them and disaster is batman.
Also I wouldn’t have TWo-Face, although I’d love to see him again. Because for Harvey to kill ppl like that, the justification is he was in too much physical pain (not taking pain-killers) and it affects his thinking, so he snaps temporarily and starts killing ppl. But after a few wks he’d come to his senses and probably commit suicide. So in a realistic world I don’t think Harvey will stay as a killer for too long. I am still struggling to understand why he didn’t shoot the Joker in the head in the hospital.
Last thing, Warner Bros wants 6 batman films by 2020, might be a good idea to have Nolan doing his last batman film to set up the “Age of costumes” and the maturation of batman, then bringing in another director to do a trilogy telling the stories of batman in the peak of his career. Then you can bring in the likes of Poison Ivy, Catwoman, Hush, Hugo Strange, Harley Quinn, and since the whole team is different by now, it’d be a win-win situation to bring a new Joker. Just hope Rob Snyder doesn’t get the role, he provides awesome visual effects but he doesn’t have any originality.
@Ken
I finally found out what you had which I didn’t and what I always wanted.
Batman-TAS torrents on The Pirate Bay. Now I can also boast too.
@Simon / Hector
You see the problem with me is when I believe firmly in something, then nothing’s going to move me from my position and no amount of convincing will prevent me from bulldozing my way thro’ (You can ask Ken about it). But when I go soft in order to occupy somebody with me and to adjust with somebody I tend to flow away with other’s opinions too much without holding to those of my own. (My girlfriend and my sister get irritated the most by this behaviour of mine. I EITHER do not fall for their demands at any costs OR just sleep-walk thro’ what they have been saying and just replying with a “Yes” to everything they say.)
Now I think I must clear my head and take a clear stand. So… I always believed like you that, BB had no type of escalation in it … or… err … may be it had … when Ra’s Al Ghul in the initial stages used to punish only petty criminals or murderers but at the climax attacks the WHOLE Gotham. Now it’s upto you and Hector to discuss it or anything related to Escalation. May be only afterwards will I be able to give my opinion about it after what you discuss. (TDK was and The Joker is ALWAYS about Escalation, No Questions Asked.)
Regarding Redemption, yes, I agree with you, Simon. Batman has a strong personality. So it’s not he who needs to be redeemed but it’s the Gotham city who must acknowledge Batman’s role and adjust itself according to him.
As for the power-vaccuum issue, what part of TDKR are you referring to, Simon ? The vaccuum created by the absence of whose: The Batman or The Joker or Both ? Or May be Two-Face. If you could clarify it a little…
@ Ken J
“My personal choices are still Bane or Killer Croc both modified from their comic versions to be a little more realistic. But NEITHER of them as main villains, I just wanted to see Batman go up against someone much stronger physically than him. There needs to be some kind of “intellectual” to be running the show as the main villain”
you keep saying you want a more intellectual villain than Bane…well have fun finding that, Bane is one of, if not the smartest Batman villain, he figured out Batmans identity in a year when most “intellectual” villains it took 30 years, or even they never figured it out. If you want a villain stronger physically than Batman and a villain who is intellectual running the show, Bane would be perfect.
@ken j
lol… it was supposed to be childish. Also theres 2 clayfaces in “the Batman” and the other is actor but not a good one. He takes a dose of the clay stuff to get better roles after seeing on the news that wayne industries was working hard to find a cure for the other clayface and he felt that it was a waste of talent. Now again of course i like tas much much more but since “the batman and batman brave and bold” are the only ones they play on tv… i prefer the batman at the moment. I have tas the entire season… bought it from amazon quite a while a go but i try not to watch it as much(trying not to scratch them lol). “The Batman” to me was more of a Different take since retelling them exactly like tas would be a waste… imo that is.
@Amol
Do you remember when the Joker burned the mob’s money, and then ordered the Russian mob boss fed to his own pooches? Two-Face also killed Maroni, and the Joker killed Micheal Jai White’s character near the beginning. The mob bosses of Gotham are basically dead. The new power regime of the Joker is in custody, and the loose cannon Two-Face is dead. Who’s running the mob? Who’s running the DA’s office? Gordon is effectively, for now, cut off from Batman. So all the dynamics that made the good and the bad and the ugly of Gotham are either eliminated, or in a stage of transition. This is what I mean by a power vacuum. The only possible result in a realistic world is chaos. This is the Joker’s greatest victory.
You see, everybody keeps suggesting the Riddler. But the Joker left clues. He set traps. He weaved a web that Gotham still has to struggle to escape. I know some on here aren’t as impressed with Nolan and Ledger’s Joker as I am, but they realistically had one man not only destroy all the progress Batman made, but he also destroyed what made Gotham work in the first place…the mob. Who’s going to run the corrupt police force? Who’s going to organize crime? Whose personality can possibly make sense of the mess the Joker has made out of Gotham City?
Only Batman can. And this is the only logical plot I can see for the third film.
Batman Begins was Star Wars.
TDK was the Empire Strikes Back.
B3 will be Return of the Jedi.
Gordon will have to cleanse the police dept.
No one necessarily has to lead the mob, but someone has to be the head of the pimple of chaos that the Joker’s greasy fingers has caused.
And Batman must pop it.
The third film will show you how Batman’s war–while still beginning–is one that he will win. TDK didn’t do that.
The Joker set up a free-for-all.
@Amol
Well, I actually bought the series on DVD, lol.
@Michael
You’re right, Bane is actually a really intelligent villain. I just keep forgetting that since he was only in a few episodes of TAS, I haven’t really read up on the comics. But thinking back, even in TAS, he was always an intellectual character, that was also really huge, lol.
@jago
Well, I guess for whoever likes it being childish it’s cool, but I don’t really like it…
@ken j
lol yeah… But like i said its only because its the next best thing. It would be cool though to see bruce timm create some of the graphic novels into animated features though… Now that would blow out any other batman cartoon out of the water (imo that is).
@amol
isn’t that illegal…?
Simon,
I understood what you meant by Power Vaccuum in TDK, but … err, I thought you said something about the PV in the NOVEL -
‘The Dark Knight Returns’ or something?
jago,
I can’t believe the thread stayed suspended for so many days (I was a little busy in my job.)waiting for me to express what I think of the illegality of Torrents.
Not everything is against the law but I have to admit this type of content (Batman-TAS, Bat-novels, Movies, Songs) that I (or anybody) download/s is illegal. It depends. Downloading Promos, software-trials, game-trials is within the law but please tell me, does someone seriously download those sh*tty things?
And tell me why should I go the pious way when I can get what I desire at just a mouse’s click away on my desktop at office ( my company pays for me) or can acquire anything sitting comfortably at my home with my laptop actually on my lap.
Ah. The power vacuum in The Dark Knight Returns, is that Batman retired after the second Robin was killed. Ten years later, the world has gone to smut. Bruce finally decides to come out of retirement, and the world hates him for it. All the other superheroes had to retire because of Batman’s rebellious methods, except for Superman, who took a deal to work for the US gov’t in exchange for the pardon of the other heroes.
It’s a generation that barely remembers that Batman ever did any good. The police are hunting him, even though he is the one who finally took out the mutant gang by besting its leader.
Well, the Joker–who finds a new hope for life because Batman’s back–convinces an outspoken liberal Dr. Phil-type that he’s cured. He gets taken on the Tonight Show, and kills everyone there. He continues his killing spree by setting up a free carnival filled with death traps. Batman, disillusioned in his old age, finally decides to kill him, like he thought he should’ve done when the Joker killed Robin. But at the last minute, he pulls back, and only paralyzes the Joker. The Joker decides to have the last laugh, and whips his head around until his broken neck kills him. The world sees it as the first time Batman killed somebody. So the hunt intensifies.
The vacuum comes to a crescendo when the USSR drops an electronic bomb that Superman couldn’t stop (he was wounded from the nukes the US dropped on USSR; try to keep up). All the power in America goes out, and chaos ensues in Gotham. Chaos, that only Batman can stop, because only he was ready for it. As the mutants described earlier were busting out of jail, Batman pulls up on a horse, and offers them an ultimatum: he gets to be their leader, to teach them howand when and why to fight, and they don’t have to fight him. They follow him, start putting out fires and setting up a hospital on the street. Batman continues and takes charge of the police, and soon order is restored to Gotham.
The eeriest scene in the book, though, is in the midst of this chaos: after the electron bomb falls, a plane that lost control flies into a skyscraper in Gotham (which is an alias for New York City). This book was written in the 80s.
At any rate, the whole thing comes to a head with Superman challenging Batman. The battle is presented as inevitable, because of their drastically different views.
The book is highly recommended by me, because it is excellent (written and drawn by Frank Miller of Sin City fame (I don’t like the art, though, and the story is kinda campy at times)), it has a lot of double entendres that are still (more?) relevent today, and is actually pretty great drama.
“And tell me why should I go the pious way when I can get what I desire at just a mouse’s click away on my desktop at office ( my company pays for me) or can acquire anything sitting comfortably at my home with my laptop actually on my lap”
Honor, dignity, respect? Do these words mean anything to anyone anymore?
Anyways, I thought that Harvey Dent/Two Face was the best part of The Dark Knight… but they totally did kill him and I think it would be classy of them to keep it that way. Definitely no Joker. There’s no way they could top the performance/publicity/hype that was Heath Ledger’s Joker. I think they should respect the character and the actor by leaving the Joker on a high note, while making a few references as a master stroke. Nolan’s challenge is akin to Batman’s in that he must make a truly great film in the wake of the incredible publicity the late Oscar winner had brought. Now is his time to truly prove himself as a filmmaker. My picks for villains are Bane and The Riddler. I’d like to see Bane go after the Bat while Riddler terrorizes Bruce Wayne. I think this would be a great opportunity to have Bruce be the one to save Gotham City while Batman is under great scrutiny. There’s potential to make comparisons to the current economical/recession troubles that would make the experience a bit more personal to viewers. Nothing says “summer blockbuster” like masked allegorical vigilantism…
If you read my post on Charlize Theron as Catwoman (I’m against it), the author’s sentiments are in keeping with mine.
Let’s rest a bit and explore Batman, Bruce and two-face for a minute. Bring in one or two other pivital characters but develop one slowly (Selena Kyle, just being Selena Kyle, Bruce Wayne’s love interest for an entire move or two) and one quickly, a nemesis to stir the pot, like the Riddler.
And we can even follow the formula of TDK and have another villain (say, Talia Al Guhl) develop during the early part of the movie (as part of a love triangle with Bruce and Selena or Bruce and Edward Nigma), and show up as an actual villain towards the climax, when all hell breaks lose.
i think it’s important to see what’s going on with the rebuilding of Wayne Manor; I think we should see Bruce going through some normal dating rigors and other things. He’s a conglomerate. How does he run his business…normally? We have seen him protect it from villains, now I want to see Bruce just be “Bill Gates” and “the billionaire playboy”! Let’s see him play polo and fall off of his horse, drive through the country and have sex at the park with Selena and/or Talia.
Normalizing Bruce would be a good contrast to the BS Batman now has to deal with, now that Gotham thinks he’s a killer. The writers should play with it. Have him get caught boning in the bathroom on his lunch break. Have a few women fight over him. Heck, let him bone that black secretary he was teaching how to put in the first movie…she was hot! Let him get drunk and get into a bar fight as Bruce Wayne.
I really feel we should get to know Bruce and start to see Wayne Manor take shape. But it should only be coming along…not finished. And we could explore that through one of his girlfriends, who tries to surprise him one day at the mansion and winds up sneaking into that now baren batcave.
Just let Bruce be “a man” for a minute. We know he has to be craving that about now after all he’s been through. All the while, this really twisted backstory is continuing for Batman. Edward Nigma is mad at Bruce for stealing his bitches and being more rich and successful than he is.
Selena is falling in love with Bruce, but he can only bone during the day (for obvious reasons). Talia Al Guhl is new in town, masquerading as someone else, but there for revenge. Or how about bringing in Harley Quin, sent from Arkham by the Joker to exact more pain upon Batman?
@DarthMalnu
(“Honor, dignity, respect? Dothese words mean anything to anyone anymore?”)
Oh, I had completely forgot that to comment on the net, one has to be politically correct. OR ELSE BE PREPARED TO BE ATTACKED. Let’s check: 1. You have a terminal fully-attached to the Internet. 2. You ACCIDENTLY (Because I know, Darthmalnu, you never even visit this type of sites) visit a torrent site. 3. There, you find something you badly wish you had and it is something you will never find in a shopping mall very easily. 4. Whatever the Internet bill, Your comapany bears it for you.
NOW,… under these four circumstances, I know Mr. Darthmalnu will do. He will say a prayer to God and quickly shut off the computer and scream out: “How dare this Internet try to slander me ?”
But unfortunately, I will … click the ‘Download’ button.
Mr. Darthmalnu, which planet are you from?