‘The Avengers 2′ Script Doesn’t Include Loki, May Contain Science

Published 1 year ago by , Updated June 18th, 2013 at 8:36 am,

Tom Hiddleston as Loki in Thor1 The Avengers 2 Script Doesnt Include Loki, May Contain Science

If some of the fan backlash to this year’s biggest box office success so far, Iron Man 3, tells us anything, it’s that the villain of a movie is often just as important, if not more so, than the hero. After all, there’s not much point in having incredible powers if there aren’t any worthy opponents to use them against.

One of the most popular villains to emerge from the Marvel cinematic universe so far has been Loki, played by Tom Hiddleston, who was the main villain of both Thor and The Avengers and somehow managed to survive both movies in order to apparently become a reluctant ally in Thor: The Dark World.

Fans who were expecting further mischief and mayhem in The Avengers 2 may be disappointed to hear that they’ll have to do without the mischief. Joss Whedon appeared as a guest on last week’s Empire Film Podcast, and was asked about a specific moment in The Avengers when Loki delivers a searing speech to Black Widow that culminates in him calling her a “mewling quim,” Whedon firmly replied he wasn’t interested in repeating himself in the sequel:

“Imitating what I did before is the surest way to do it not as well. Second of all… Loki is not there to say those terrible things.”

This news could (and probably will) be taken as a hint that Loki will not survive the events of Thor: The Dark World, especially since, in the trailer, Thor promises to kill his adopted brother when Loki inevitably betrays him. This could also tie in to what we’ve heard about Thor: The Dark World being a story of redemption for Loki, and redemption stories have a habit of ending badly for the redeemed.

Joss Whedon Talks Marvel Consultant Role The Avengers 2 Script Doesnt Include Loki, May Contain Science

Within the context of the shared Marvel universe, however, there’s no reason to assume that Loki’s absence in The Avengers 2 is an inherent indication of his death in Thor: The Dark World. It would be near impossible for Whedon to include every main or supporting character from each of the movie universes that he’s going bringing together, and since Loki already had his chance in the spotlight as the villain of The Avengers, he may have simply been benched for the next team-up. Since elements from the Thor franchise were the most significant driving force behind the plot of The Avengers, it’s likely that the sequel will change things up with the introduction of Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch.

Whedon also indicates in the podcast that he doesn’t like to kill characters off lightly. When asked whether he has the same inclination towards torturing or killing off his characters as George R.R. Martin, author of the A Song of Ice and Fire book series upon which Game of Thrones is based, Whedon says that while he intends to “squeeze” the Avengers in the next film, he’s never had any particular urge to hurt or kill his characters:

“It’s why Buffy was the least frightening horror show ever, because I don’t find people to be expendable… I believe that my work exists for other reasons… I haven’t seen Game [of Thrones], so I don’t know how the way in which he does it. I’m just like, “Keep killing them. If you and Robert Kirkman can just carry the banner and let me rest, that would be great.”

Tony Stark holding the Tesseract in The Avengers The Avengers 2 Script Doesnt Include Loki, May Contain Science

Whedon was naturally on his guard about revealing specific plot details (he jokes that he’s taken to karate-chopping anyone who asks him questions about Quicksilver), but he did reveal one very slim sliver of a hint when asked about the fine-tuning that the script requires:

“There’s some science in it, which means I have scenes where someone says, ‘Science the sciencey science!’ And then I’m like, ‘I’ll fix that later.’”

Are you disappointed that Loki won’t be returning, or would you have been more disappointed if he had? Let us know your theories on what might happen in Thor: The Dark World and The Avengers 2 in the comments.

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Thor: The Dark World is out in theaters on November 8, 2013, with The Avengers 2 following much later on May 1, 2015.

Source: Empire Online [via ComingSoon]

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TAGS: the avengers 2, thor 2

111 Comments

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  1. This is going to be amazing. To bad about Loki, but I understand why he won’t be in it.
    Whedon knows exactly what he’s doing.

    • Copy/paste everything from every previous Marvel film and mush them together to create one big joke called the Avengers. Oh yea Whedon knows what he’s doing….fcking Marvel fanboys….completely clueless.

      • Fear is the path to the Dark Side. Fear leads to anger; anger leads to hate; hate leads to suffering.

        Anger, fear, aggression… the dark side are they. Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny.

        • …consume you it will as it did Obi-Wan’s apprentice oh wait that’s STAR WARS I think what’s going to happen is Loki will behave himself and be admitted back into Asgard only to try and kill Odin and his wife in an attempt to sieze the throne. Thor will kill Loki then take his rightful place as king of Asgard and appoint one of his friends to rule when he has to leave to help The Avengers “this is my bargain you mewling quim”

          • I love your writing style. lol

          • I’m not really bothered by the fact Loki isn’t going to be in Avengers 2. For starters, he has a 5 picture deal, so he’s got 2 more movies after Dark World. Secondly, laying low for a while is part of his nature. He a god of Chaos, and while too many people equate chaos with anarchy, that isn’t always the case. Loki creates really bad situations (say the invasion of Earth) that are deliberately designed to eventually create greater good (formation of the Avengers). For example, in the mythology, he’s the one ultimately responsible for Baldur’s death (even though the killing blow is delivered by another), but it’s Baldur’s experiences while in the underworld that ultimately make him a good leader when returns and assumes the throne after Odin’s death at Ragnarok.

      • DC fanboys are hilarious lol the only good movies you have are from your two flagship characters. You can become more big headed when you actually get good films from other characters!!! You forgot about Green Lanter or Jonah Hex??? Even super and batman had horrible films.

        • Batman & Robin, still the worst superhero movie and one of the worst movies ever made

          • If you smoke a good blunt, Batman & Robin is an awesome movie. That’s how I got through Nolan’s Batman Trilogy…I had to be high.

            • This is the absolute truth sir

            • Well about the blunt and batman and robin movie

          • @ Mike

            I disagree. I seen worse CBM than Batman & Robin.

      • Geez. No need to be so hostile.

      • What is your problem BIt(h!! geez don’t you have enough superman news to keep you happy YOU MEWLING QUIM!!!!

  2. Yeah, we need variety! Bring out the best Marvel could offer! Just leave Loki somewhere in Muspelheim until Thor 3.

  3. i a happy… i would be annoyed if he got in the avengers 2. he is a done villain. i hate it when they keep characters in for the sake of their poopularity. transformers comes to mind the most. Megatron should not have come back in 2 and 3. he just kept getting in movies and he eventually just became annoying because everything he was doing didnt add to the story and it degraded his villainous character from the first movie.

    • Well to be fair – Transformers doesn’t really have much depth when it comes to villain leaders and the central conflict is about the Autobots and Decepticons.

      A better example is Superman who does have a lot villains and yet it is almost always Lex Luthor in the movies.

    • Allll Hail MegatroN!!!!!!

  4. Meh, give other villains their chance, we don’t need Loki constantly because then there’d be a fan backlash against the character.

    To comment on the interview bringing up GOT, I have to say that Martin kills and tortures characters as part of the greater story. People getting hurt or killed acts as motivation to further the plot. Joss knows this since he’s done the same in a few comic books, including the X-Men story I have in my collection written by him.

    I’m hoping that science means more AIM and more AIM means (hopefully) MODOK.

    • To bad he’s already going to be in GotG because John C Reilly would be my pick for MODOK.

    • Nic cage for modok lol

      • Obama for Modok…it’s the only way he’ll ever “get a head”! -LOL

        • Maybe Obama should talk to President Clinton for advice. Clinton did manage to, er, “get a head” while he was in the White House. Just as Monica.–LOL again.

  5. Makes sense. It got weird how Magneto was always around in the original X-Men trilogy, even though I enjoyed the heck out of him.

  6. I personally think Loki in the Avengers was extremely under-rated. He is an incredible actor who brings such an unparalleled level of depth and feeling to that character. He will surely be missed, but I’m sure the show will continue on just fine.

    • I agree, Hiddleston is an excellent actor. I have a feeling he may be back at some point in the future as Loki.

      I look forward to enjoying Hiddleston in other roles and movies though, he’s that good.

    • Sure he’s a good actor. But his role in the Avengers? Please. Worst villain to be put on the big screen in recent memory. What a WUSS, but then again it is a Marvel film, it’s for children. Can’t have too much violence or menacing villains. That’s why the Avengers were never in danger, that’s why the movie blows.

      • Worse than “The Mandarin”?
        And if the movie is for children, why is the majority of fans teens and adults?

        • Doood dont you badmouth Mandarin; that s*** was genious, i long for the moment when i can have that s*** on dvd….those mandarin terror clips and the cinematic buildup to it …effing epic bro!!!!!!

          • The Mandarin was as menacing as margarine.

        • Each time when I seen The Avengers I seen more teens & adults than I did kids. It was a PG-13 movie so it wasn’t for all ages. It beated out Nolan’s Trilogy of Batman films including that,TDK & TDKR.

      • You do realize that comic book characters main fans were always teengers and kids right? Then adults realized that these characters had mature stories as well. Marvel just tries to enterain the whole family. You can’t please everyone but for people that believe every comic book film is suppose to be dark or serious is getting out of control

      • @Sam

        0/10

        • All tasteless Marvel fans here, know nothing of what makes a good film. Just mindless stupid comedy garbage. You guys surely know how to turn off your brain while watching this kind of garbage, children.

          • let me sing you a song;
            Blahhh blahhh blahhh blahhh blahhh blah blahh blahhh blahhh blleeee bla bla stfu u noob ass

          • @ Sam

            Oh please, I think you got it the other way around. Think about how many years WB been milking Batman/Superman? Not to mention rushing out Green Lantern, making Jonah Hex & The Losers which not everyone is familiar with from the comics. Same with Watchmen.

            So far rumors WB wants to rush things to compete with Marvel which is bad move.

      • Sam why do you have to bring that immature and dumb negativity to the table? It’s not necessary and it’s childish.

      • WOW all the MOS news and the DC “JOKERS” come out in droves to claim that they have the best CBM EVER…. News flash, you actually FINALLY have a very good CBM but don’t get too cock-y THIS IS ONLY the start of you movie universe YOU DC slappys NEED TO PRAY that it is not ruined by a hot flying turd of a MOS 2 that seems to happen when the writers and Dir. get complacent which could very WELL HAPPEN in this case!!
        BE HAPPY for a lil bit but I just read that they want MOS 2 out in 2014 so you really better get on your knees and (*EHEM ooops) PRAY because that will be VERY QUICK without even a script yet to announce a #2, but then again DC is NOT very good at their planning so I expect this whole thing to blow up in their faces, and YET AGAIN WE WILL BE TALKING ABOUT ANOTHER TURD OF A CBM COMING FROM WB/DC!!

  7. Not sure how id feel if Loki was to be killed off. But id to see someone else, or others be the main villain/villains in Avengers 2. It’s Like X-Men films, I had my fill of Magento being the main villain so I prefer a different villain in the main trilogy continuity.

  8. And oh yeah… it’s a comic book movie so it’s not like when he dies it will carry that much weight, not in a world where resurrections are commonplace. So he might not be in Avengers 2? Doesn’t mean we will never see him again…

    • When I read the “Loki might be killed” in the article, I instantly thought of Loki inhabiting the body of Black Widow in that story from some time back.

    • He’s signed up for 6 films too, so we’ll see him again.

  9. Lets play “Who’s the villain?” of A2…

    They’ve said its not Thanos. But they could be lieing.

    Ant Man isn’t until Phase 3, so Ultron is likely out as well.

    My long shot – Scarlet Witch after she looses her “children”.

    I’d like to see Taskmaster as a minor villain, just to get various henchmen cameos.

    Another possibility – S.H.E.I.L.D. are the bad guys. That seems to be a possible setup for CA:TWS, its likely that this will continue in A2.

    • I’d love to see the Masters of Evil. Bring back Abomination, Introduce Enchantress and Surge, also bring back Red Skull (different actor), and maybe Wonderman (is that his name?)… Add in the Extremis virus and you have a fun little end battle.

    • @morrigan
      I agree with you about shield. Which is why I believe IMO that the villian could possibly be Graviton.in the Avengers emh cartoon Nick fury had a hand in the creation of graviton,so that is definitely something that could possibly come into play for the sequel. Plus whedon already mentioned that the villian is a him, so I don’t believe it will be the masters of evil. Could be wrong, but I’ll still stick to my gut with graviton.he’s a worthy villian for the sequel.

      • Actually Whedon said that the Villains. As in plural so the villains could be the MOE or just some guy (Graviton) and someone one else. But I think the villains will be SHIELD and the Thunderbolts. Fury, Black Widow and Cap are already on the run in CA:WS so maybe the World Security Council asks Alexander Pierce (Chris Redford) to assemble their own team of Avengers one that is completely loyal and not uncontrollable like the Hulk, untrustworthy like Stark and from earth unlike Thor. But Pierce is actually Zemo in disguise and he uses the Thunderbolts for his own personal gain.

    • It’s not because Ant-Man is only scheduled in Phase Three that they can’t introduce the character earlier on (which actually would be a smart move, if you ask me), like in Avengers 2. So we can’t really rule Ultron out.

      Scarlet Witch… can’t loose children she had with Vision if Vision is not there yet. Vision can’t be there if Ultron has not been there. Ultron can’t be there if Pym has not been there… except if they radically change the history of all those characters, but I think Ultron is too much rooted in fandom for his history to be altered.

      Having said that, I don’t have any idea who the vilain could be… Kang/Immortus? The Skrulls? The Kree? Korvac (they’re supposed to introduce The Collector in GotG, I think… his daughter was married to Korvac, was she not? Maybe I’ve got the story mixed up somewhere though…)?

    • Well, I was too busy enjoying the movie to look for a ring, and I doubt a lot of other people were either (after all Mandarin was IN the movie, right?), but who says Mandarin was Mandarin. We are talking potential long term plots and villians here (like Thanos), so what if Killian was just another pawn of Mandarin, and just hired someone to pretend to be him? Meanwhile the Mandarin is still lurking behind the scenes pulling strings (and yet just a pawn himself, like Loki, to the larger machinations of Thanos).

      I’d already considered such a possibility after seeing the movies, when I read about the possibility of “science” being part of Avengers 2. Then I came across this article: http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/Poniverse/news/?a=15697 – suggesting that Mandarin’s rings aren’t based on magic, but technology.

      Suggested plot: Mandarin captures Tony Stark (perhaps Quicksilver and Scarlett Witch are in his employ – after all I do believe they started out their careers as bad guys). The allows Downey to be a part of the film without necessarily taking on such a heavy role (he’s got to be a bit tired right now). The Avengers have to save him, but are unable to deafeat Mandarin (and whatever other minions he night have) on their own. Stark convinces Quicksilver and Witch to defect to side of good, and they, along with Iron Man help defeat Mandarin (and his allies).

  10. Did Tom recently say him and Joss discussed Avengers 2? You don’t discuss it if your character is killed off. I think he survives Thor 2. He’s too likable to kill off.

    • He has a 6-film contract. So he’ll live, I guess.

      • 5 film contract

  11. I just watched the first season of EMH, and I can’t help but feel that the MCU is pointing toward Ultron, especially with all the important members are slowly being introduced (Ant-Man, Wasp, and Scarlet Witch), as well as the events in IM3 (controlled Iron Legion) and leaked rumor about Thor and Cap 2. Possibly for one of the Phase 3 -since Thanos would likely become the final big bad guy- but setting them up in The Avengers 2 would not be weird as well. Joss already hinted the bad guy in The Avengers 2 as a ‘he’. Let’s just wait and see what will happen… but yeah, I sure hope they don’t kill Loki. At least he deserves to live, eventhough as an Asgardian prisoner.

    • He has a 6-film contract. :-)

      • 5 film

  12. I’m not really torn up about Loki not being in the avengers 2 I think it makes more sense for him not to be actually I have no idea who the new bad guy is going to be but based on what Whedon has said about it I think this new gal or guy will be awesometacular int he movie.

  13. Garthan Saal to be the villain of Avengers 2!

  14. Even if Whedon the the GOTG won’t be in it, I’m just hoping that Lee Pace and Karen Gillan make it this film.

  15. As much as i Adore the Loki character.. I expect a new villain in Avengers two. as is the natural progression of these arcs.

  16. “May Contain Science”

    REALLY?!?! I had no idea. It’s not like three of your superheros are direct results of science or anything…

  17. I believe Tom Hiddleston’s contract with Marvel has been fulfilled.
    If that is indeed the case, Tom would be in a position to negotiate
    a major increase in salary, something Marvel would just as soon avoid.

    • He is signed for 5 movies. Depending on whether Captain America counts or not he has 1 or 2 movies left after Thor 2.

      • Alrighty, then. And he’s done 3 for sure. I was not sure, thanks.

  18. From Whedon’s quote I don’t really understand how people are saying Loki won’t be in it… All I got from it was that he said that Loki won’t ‘say those terrible things’ ie Loki won’t be the villian…so doesn’t this mean he could still return as an anti-hero/reluctant ally type?
    Excuse my ignorance, 4 hours of sleep is my excuse. Plus huge Loki fan so I’m holding out hope. Marvel won’t kill him off, it was be stupid.

    • Exactly, Tanya.

  19. I loved Loki in Thor and Avengers but I am kind of glad he won’t be in Avengers 2. Since the focus should be on Thanos, re-introducing Loki seems superfluous.

  20. Glad to hear they won’t be repeating villains. Not a marvel guy but seeing those guys go up against Thanos would be pretty cool.

  21. If we are to believe Ronan the accuser is in guardians I would bet he will also show up in avengers 2

  22. Loki has been an entertaining villain, but I am looking forward to seeing the Avengers battling other bad guys. So, I’m really not disappointed.

    But Science!! Science is fun ;-)

  23. bring us dr doom as villain in avengers he is the most powerful of them all

    • Dr. Doom is licensed out to Fox

  24. Justin Hammer wasn’t in Avengers or IM3. He must have died.

  25. Is it just me or am I wrong in thinking that the introduction of more sciencey science in Avengers 2 is a direct lead in for Hank Pym’s inclusion or even involvement in some small way before Ant-man movie?

    I do agree that it is best to focus on one of the plethora of other Marvel villains out there. Loki is a great villian, but less is definitely more otherwise the danger is that he may become less interesting/cliche/pastiche of what makes him so compelling in the first place.

    As for the DC fans who are against us Marvel-ites, why so hostile? Kevin Feige said in an interview that he wishes the best for al comic book movies, whether they be Marvel, DC or whatever, because we are all in in together, especially as a vast majority of the non-geeky viewing public cannot distinguish a Marvel character from a DC (apart from the obvious big boys).

    And to my fellow Marvel-ites, let us not gloat too much; just because Marvel has had the more successful movies from a wider range of characters, there’s no need to rub it in. If Warner manage it, a Justice League movie would be amazing. Not better than Avengers, just different, but still amazing.

    • I agree on everything. I lean towards Marvel as far as characters, but with this movie, if they’re all great (or good), compelling and full of fun stuff, then everybody wins.

      The science approach does help and mixes it up. The great thing about comic book worlds is the diversity of things that make their world more special than ours, and it would be a shame to waste it. Science here, space origins there, magic here, mythology there.

      I’m also glad that Loki won’t be the main focus, because he was done well and I don’t want to see him lose his lustre. “You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become a villain”…and then after that it goes “You either die a villain or live long enough to see yourself become a boring cliche that everybody is tired of.”

      I would definitely like to see him in a tv series though. They should incorporate all the lesser villains and heroes into the S.H.I.E.L.D. show.

    • + ∞

  26. Like the saying goes, “Ben There Done That.” Time to see some new baddies come and stir things up in the Avengers world.

  27. Realistically with the advent of Man of steel, that s*** needs topped asap!!!!!!! I am a hugeeee marvel fan and its fandom stems from characters and story lines like galactus thanos silver surfer mainly in the starlin lim era..Luvvvv that shizzzz…now that i got that out

    Avengers 2 if its going to include thanos has to pull…and pull hard on our senses to surpass the grandeur of that dc movie that blew my mind…i mean doods im doing pushups!!!!! that s*** gave me hope!!! now i want to see avenger have thanos take away hope and gather all the powers to be together just to fail to take him down..cause we all know thanos defeats himself

  28. Where’s Goliath and Wasp? get them rolling, too. Glad to see Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch materializing.

  29. I’m a huge Loki fan since in the comics and Earths Mightiest Heroes and A1. But it was expected .. Why the hell would he be back in A2 when he was a main villain in A1.. Plus he has Asgardian stuff to to hor 2 ,3 etc .. I love that Whedon said Science. Maybe we might get AIM, Graviton , Modok

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