Avatar Spoilers Discussion

Published 4 years ago by

avatar spoilers zoe saldana Avatar Spoilers Discussion

While we do have an Avatar review where you can leave comments, we’ve set up this as a place where you can discuss Avatar spoilers without concerns about ruining the movie for folks who haven’t seen it yet.

If you’re posting comments here, assume that anyone in the conversation has seen the movie – if you haven’t seen the movie, I would recommend you don’t read the comments here until you have. icon smile Avatar Spoilers Discussion

Based on our previous poll, over 70% of you planned to see Avatar on the big screen, so while you’re at it, you can give Avatar your own rating right here:

[poll id="29"]

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  1. wow……anyone else feel a uncontrolled pang of regret at the end of the movie when u realise–the 3D is so ruddy awesome that u wish u could have walked into the world JC made so real for us?(even if it was only for 2 1/2hrs!) sigh…back to the 3D reality we in I guess..

    @KevinB, are you the same KevinB from the nvidia forums?

  2. Overall I think Cameron did a good job on this movie. However, there are a couple things that are bothering me a little bit. First of all, I think that Vic is right about Ribisi being a little bit miscast. I also don’t think Michelle Rodriguez really belonged there. She was obviously right for that manly woman character but they could have found a better actor. I found myself rolling my eyes at how she delivered her lines. The main thing (and let me know if you disagree) was when the one Na’vi who was supposed to marry Neytiri finds out that she “mated” with Jake. OK…yeah he got a little upset. I feel like if I knew that it was my destiny to end up with this girl from the time I was little and then some weird outsider came in and took her away, I would be a little more than upset. I would kill the guy. Even if my dad said not to. Instead it was all good after a couple of minutes.

  3. On your second point, Marc, I found a good BS reason for why he handled it so well: the Na’vi are clearly ‘wiser’ than Humans in a few aspects. Tsu’tey tried to battle it out with Jake when he found out, to no avail, and Neytiri jumped and counterattacked to protect Jake, at which point Tsu’tey truly cooled off towards the situation, though very disappointed. Assumingly this is because he saw that Neytiri truly loved Jake, but it also can be assumed that because of the way the culture is, he recognized that everything happens for a reason and that fate follows its own path. I think they’re raised around that kind of mentality, and when coupled with the concept that they are most likely in better control of their emotions than humans, I think his reaction can be considered logical.

    There’s a makeshift explanation for ya.

    -Hunter

  4. @John

    The guided missiles and other things like that would not track, that’s what he was saying and if you watch the battle, it was true, they missed a whole lot more than they hit, they were basically just firing unguided missiles line of sight. I think by then they had missiles capable of turning completely around to track and hit targets in all directions.

  5. OK… So I saw Avatar last night and it was awesome!

    My Thoughts:

    Zoe Saldana gives the best performance and carries the film, which is saying a lot being as though the other actors get a chance to be in human form.

    Giovonni Ribisi was horribly miscast… : )

    The VFX are not a let down but I don’t see them as a ‘milestone’ either.

    The writing is weak at times but this story is obviously a visual journey and that makes up for it. The meaningful dialogue arrives just in time, coupled with high-end VFX and action, to carry us through the second act and climax.

    The story itself is simple but its themes complex… human greed and materialism vs. basic human rights and nature.

    @ Vic

    Oh and I must say I unfortunately heard the word “Unobtanium” twice… yeah… haha… twice. Horrible!

    Little quirky writing decisions such as that really add a childish dimension to the film which, however, I believe was done on purpose. Thankfully it is not done to exhaustion like in Transformers I & II.

    As an avid James Cameron fan… I want to discuss the film from a standpoint of his other works and the advent of IMAX & 3-D filmmaking. In short, I think many movie buffs would agree that he is a film genius. And even if you don’t agree, he is pretty much in legendary status anyway.

    James Cameron:

    In the form of what he has accomplished artistically and contributed to the Motion Picture industry technically is monumental and many Visual Effects-based films owe him gratitude.

    That being said, I must say that I think ‘Avatar’ is by far… NOT his best work.

    Everyone has already covered all the Good things in the film… but does anyone else kinda agree with me?

    Those milestone films of his — not just for the Science Fiction genre but for Action and arguably Drama — man.. Terminator 1 & 2, The Abyss, Aliens, Titanic (had to mention it :P) put into the context of their times were more of an accomplishment then this film.

    And… I think they are under-appreciated which is why Titanic received so much attention.

    They are adult movies though and Avatar is the fist time I have seen Cameron appeal to such a broad audience. That is always a challenging feat for filmmakers and he did an AMAZING job. With that respect I can see why so many people LOVE this movie and may feel it is his best… many of those people you may not find as fans of his other spectacles.

    The VFX

    Now… as far as the hype goes… it was suppose to be about “jaw-dropping visual effects” right? I saw it in IMAX 3-D and I think the Visual FX were amazing but still noticeably animated. On par with say… Transformers I or II? So then… what is the milestone in Visual FX this time?

    I didn’t see it. But I see it in Terminator 2 & The Abyss, when he did what studios said couldn’t be done yet… especially T2. Aliens is even great but that is due more to collaborations then just Cameron himself. H.R. Giger… Stan Winston… Of course all VFX is collab. work but JC deeply involves himself with the process directly.

    In my opinion, when properly done, miniatures, models, green screening, matte paintings and so forth STILL look better on film then pure CGI. And CGI looks the best when employed with those elements. Think: Star Wars Trilogy (Original), Aliens, Terminator 2, Iron Man, The Matrix, The Dark Knight, Jurassic Park, Blade Runner — all a real conglomeration of the VFX elements and in my opinion, are contextually, more impressive Effects-wise.

    Example: The “drop ships” in Aliens looked better then these CGI spacecrafts and that movie is almost as old as me! Ahhh!

    The 3-D…

    It was cool… sometimes distracting or weird. I kind of got the sense that the 3-D Artists just picked random scenes and objects to emphasize and the only time it seemed to have any relevance was during some surprise (the animal out of the bushes) or action scene (projectiles)?

    I think I would have been just as satisfied cinematically without the 3-D… if not less distracted from irrelevant visuals…. anyone else?

    The IMAX: “Semi-Experience”? Huh?

    I wasn’t feelin’ the “Letterbox thing” either… The whole point of IMAX is to extend beyond the edge of your peripheral vision, in effect, it fools your brain… Think The Dark Knight opening sequence for a moment, you ARE panning through the Cityscape. The Letterbox turned IMAX into a really big HD-screen. But not IMAX… get it.. Eye … MAXIMUM… ? Joke…

    So… It wasn’t really the “IMAX Experience” like other 70mm projected films. What I’m getting at is that it was a waste of a filmmaking convention, the IMAX and 3-D are visual story telling tools. Why would you choose to not utilize the extent of the IMAX capabilities? If the envelope of visual story telling is being “pushed” of “pioneered” with Avatar wouldn’t that include IMAX…?

    And then I wonder who made the decision to not use it…? Was it Cameron and isn’t it kind of false advertising and false hype because IMAX is understood to be that extensive projection of the film (threshold of the periph)?

    Anyway just my thoughts… What do you guys think?

    Remember I think Avatar is good just not a masterpeice, especially compared to JC’s resume AND I do not think the VFX hype was on point. Good CGI… but not groundbreaking.

  6. To those who have commented before, I’m sorry, but I didn’t have time to read all of your comments so sorry if I tread on a few of you.

    @ Vic…

    What I’m here to talk about is the story; we already know enough about the visuals. The purpose of science fiction is to make you question reality based on the terms defined in the film. It is through this lens that we should judge the film.

    Now, first things first, the story. Yes, it’s predictable, and not all that original. For example, go watch Princess Mononoke or Pocahontas or thousands of other stories. As the old saying goes, however, there is only one story that ever existed, and it’s been told time and time again. With this wholly unoriginal story structure, does it portray it in a unique way, and make the framework its own? Yes, I think it does. I knew where things were going, but I didn’t care. The film focused on the emotion associated with the events, not the sequence or a complex, unpredictable story. Ask yourself; did you care about the events, even if you knew how they would eventually unfold? I did, and if you did, that’s all that matters to make a unique story. I think the story is all-the-more powerful that you cared during the events, all the while knowing where they would eventually lead – that’s just good story telling.

    About the take home message or theme of the film. Now, Cameron is not very subtle all of the time. For example, when the Nav’i were leaving their mother tree, there was almost an exact image that reflects the Trail of Tears, the forceful expulsion of the Cherokee Indians from their native land – check it out here . On the other hand, his use of language can be quite potent, albeit once again not very subtle. “There is no green on my land…” and “They went back to their dead planet,” clearly sheds a light on our state of affairs. It certainly portrays guilt on the side of the humans, but it does not demonize them – just look at Giovanni’s guilt compared to Lang’s stubborn bloodlust. In fact, Cameron paints both sides as capable of humane moments, both good and bad examples. Without getting too verbose, this film made me at least think about things in the real world, and for that reason alone it should be considered a success, if not a classic.

    As a parting thought, I really must emphasize how remarkably detailed this story was. Take, for example, only the flora and fauna – speaking from a biological standpoint (my bread and butter), their interaction was just phenomenal.

    Your thoughts?

  7. Ah, the link didn’t post! Check it out here…
    http://www.uoregon.edu/~kimball/images/trail.o.tears.1838.jpg

  8. Check this out – it is beyond remarkable.

    http://www.ted.com/talks/wade_davis_on_endangered_cultures.html

  9. Interesting as I’m watching “District 9″ tonight I also see similarities to that film in Avatar.
    :-)

  10. I think i would of preferred the na’vi without a tail.I wouldn’t be thinking thundercats as much then.If i had to name my favorite parts theyre
    1.When jake uses his avatar for the first time
    2.when jake arrives on the toruk and the music when he leaves with neytiri on it kick ass moment
    3.neytiri shoots the bad guy with the arrows
    4.where she saves jake with the mask awwww lol
    5.the hammerheads wack down the amp suits
    6.the flying scene with neytiri the dive bomb down the cliff wooooo
    copy and paste this link to check out a bust of neytiri thats coming out in january from gentle giant i’d of got it but i think her skin is too dark and her eyes and mouth dont look right.Her fathers bow would of looked better too as its thicker with a pattern on it.
    http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-51568362379717_2087_270603626

  11. No ive changed my mind i think her skin is fine on the model it does look like the film.I don’t want to be accused of being racist against blue people

  12. I’m from Hong Kong and I saw the movie yesterday in 3D. Really incredible. If you ask me to say something about the movie I would say, “SEE IT.”

    I’m not a frequent movie goer, and I had no experience in 3D movies except in Disneyland. I’m not at all a fan of James Cameron either. After viewing, when people asked me how was the 3D, I said it was only used to make the transparent computer screens, what a waste. That’s where JC succeeded: I did not even notice the “natural” scenes were in 3D! They were so real! I didn’t notice that until I saw a trailer on YouTube [after] seeing the movie. Frankly, I got motion sickness viewing that in 2D but not 3D.

    Talking about the plot, being a 24-yo male I almost cried at some scenes. For example, when the home tree fell and Na’vi lost their families, and when Jake reunites with the tribe proving himself as Toruk Macto. Recently, my home city has had hot debates on conservation of habitat and traditional culture versus development and entrepreneur profit, and powerlessness of ordinary citizens to protect their homeland or to voice for better planning. Many old trees (in HK, anything older than 50 is considered old) fell due to restricted space and disease, which could have been prevented. High-rise and incredibly expensive apartments line up along the coastline and block the pleasant sea wind. Air and light pollution, waste of resources and food, and lost of connection with our land…I had strong feeling and deep reflection when viewing the movie, and my mind is still filled with emotions.

    Also, being an Asian, I can tell lots of references or similarities to Hayao Miyazaki’s films. Some scenes are almost identical visually and emotionally, especially to Nausicaa in the Valley of the Wind and Princess Mononoke. No one is copying anyone; it’s just the same story (or WARNING) told again in different ways. Well I almost laughed at the AMP and by AMP I could only figure out “armpit”.

    I can see that James Cameron is very careful on the science behind: Jake’s emaciated legs; a truly diversified ecosystem with not just one or two beasts; trophic levels; evolution from common ancestor is observed, though the Na’vi seem to have lost too many body parts; Grace mentioned “signal transduction” which is a real biological term rarely used outside the community (I am a Biology MPhil graduate); and why is a natural WWW impossible, when optic fibres are made of carbon, and electrons and photons are already used by life on Earth to transfer energy ? I even tried to figure out what’s so toxic about Pandora’s atmosphere, how that originated, and how do the organisms cope with that with similar if not greater agility than on Earth, and I got a very self-satisfying answer (try think about it if you have studied biology). It’s not 2012 or The Day After Tomorrow which some people call “lousy science”.

    Besides science, the “biological plot” also echoes some Buddhist texts that I happened to read a few days before, and also the world view of native people in general. Golden phrases are, “(Not in original words) Energy is just borrowed; it has to be returned later”, “Eywa only protects the balance of life”, and a recent catchphrase “I see you.” As I saw on internet forums, many movie-goers in Hong Kong are re-visiting the theater just like what they did with Titanic, despite the higher price of 3D version. Here in HK, Avatar out-competes other movies in terms of number of audience by 3-fold. Titanic attracted romance-lovers and especially female viewers; Avatar would attract environmentalists, biologists, adventure-lovers, and anyone who cares about their homeland and cares about the Earth, so to speak. A sci-fi with meaning in it.

    My friend and I “refused” to take off the 3D goggles after the movie ended, until the credits rolled. Avatar…are we not living on Pandora as avatars?

  13. Tails are necessary for balance when running at the pace & speed that na’vi run their terrain.Yes? Tails are also necessary when at high speed,one needs to change direction.Look to the Cheetah who uses it’s tail to turn at a 90 degee angle when running.Yes?JDON

  14. Keith Li,

    Graceful, informed, well-written post. I am pleasantly surprised that the phrase “I see you” is popular. We use this phrase in the group New Warriors (ManKind Project) when someone loses his pretense or mask, and we see the “real” man. When he faces himself and shares it, we trust him as authentic.

    Something I don’t recall being emphasized is the role of the strong woman in this film. For instance, it is generally reserved for the main character to have direct revenge on the main bad guy. In some ways, she reminded me of CS Lewis’ “Green Woman” in Perelandra.

    I would like to hear more about signal transduction and Hong Kong without taking up Avatar discussion space (Note to “topic drifters.”) If you wish, e-mail me at boundingsquirrel [at] yahoo.com

  15. @Ken J
    Yeah, after seeing the movie a 2nd time in 2D, I did notice Jake said they could only fire line-of-sight, and not track their targets (which could be seen when Rodriguez was not being hit by the missiles). I also noticed that the Na’vi had no eye browse but the avatars did.

  16. @John

    Yah, the Avatars were a mix of native DNA and human DNA. So I guess their eye brows just kind of stuck with them, lol.

  17. @Sylar’s Hunger Continues

    Thanks for reading. I agree that females in Avatar are not portrayed as strong; they play supportive and motherly roles, which are still essential to the plot.
    You can find me at wtswkeithkyli[at]yahoo.com.hk ;-)

    @Ken J

    The Avatars also had nipples, a more “human” nose, and bigger muscles than Na’vi. And how about the belly button? These are details that I would instinctively notice, and JC paid attention to these, too.
    ———
    It’s really fascinating to see consciousness being transferred to the “Network” when the physical body dies…in that way, no soul would be afraid of death, or maybe in the Na’vi vision “death” is simply irrelevant. They do kill animals for food, but they only take what they needed and they comfort the prey before it dies. This is the same as what some African tribes do on their hunting. Respect Nature. Always capitalize Nature, not only the journal :-p.

    Some people criticize on the excessive use (or unsurprising use) of CG and 3D technology, or the straightforward plot. To me these are not as important as the message that it carries and the efforts that the director has paid. This movie makes my HK$120 (US$15) ticket worth its value; I would pay to view it again even if it costs HK$200, but there are simply no tickets!

    I wonder how would the sequels be like. The growth story of Jake and Neytiri’s child? A similar situation on another planet with different outcome? The story of another tribe? or “The Skypeople Strikes Back”? Well it seems no female human has been left on Pandora…

    Near, far, wherever you are, I’ll wait for you, James. You make, I watch!

  18. @ Keith Li

    “They do kill animals for food, but they only take what they needed and they comfort the prey before it dies. This is the same as what some African tribes do on their hunting. Respect Nature.”

    The same can be said for Aboriginal North & SOuth AMerican peoples and Australian Aboriginals as well..Respect Mother Earth/Nature and appreciate what is provided..We are all part one one great Universal life force…The energy that courses through us and gives us consciousness is borrowed from the Universe/Great Spirit/God and it is our duty to make the most of the experience..to figure it all out more or less and maybe take it with us on our next journey after our physical body perishes..

  19. I found this movie resonated with me, in much the same way as Miazaki’s films; I found the same sudden wonderment at the world and its creatures, the same pangs of sadness and loss at the destruction wrought, and the same spark of hope for the future, and the continuity of life.

    I especially loved the scene towards the end, where Neytiri finds Jake, fallen from his neural interface, half asphyxiated, his legs atrophied and stick-thin from lack of use… and instead of revulsion, or even surprise smiles, picks him up, and says “I see you.”

    I’m a guy, and I don’t care for superficial romantics… but the notion of seeing into the essence of a person, understanding who they really are, and loving them genuinely was incredibly touching. I admit that I very nearly teared up.

    Also, this movie has totally rekindled my interest in Alpha Centari, and our slow, but inexorable race toward the stars.

  20. Dale,

    That part had a lot of grown men choking up. After the movie, I found the “I see you” moment hit my friend and I both the same way that it hit you. At one level it speaks of being accepted at our utmost pathetic state, and also understood and embraced at that point.

  21. Saw the movie in 3D on Saturday… simply incredible. I want to see it again at an IMAX 3D theater and will do that soon. I likened the movie story to “Dances with Wolves” meets “Star Wars” with a little “Apocalypto” and “The Matrix” thrown in for good measure. Cameron has done a great job of creating a visual and sensual treat for those folks who appreciate a good yarn, great special effects, and believable characters. You can’t say enough about blending all that technology into a movie, especially the 3D stuff which is used more like a visual accent or underline rather than overused psuedo-tech as has been done in the past. My daughter liked the romantic angle as well as the rest of the movie, and the guys will love all the para-military aspects including hardware, recon marines with an attitude, and the confrontational scenes. There’s not much to dislike about this movie… let me know when there’s a sequel!!!

  22. ive just become one of the people and ive just finished making a fantastic looking bow from the wood of the home tree and now i can choose a sexy woman but im not going to as im quite happy continuing the affair ive been having with neytiri for the past 2 years behind jakes back.

  23. I disagree that Na’vi viewed women as motherly and not strong. I felt that the majority of the women were leaders on Na’vi. When it came to training Jake they had a woman do it, not a man. When it came to the spiritual and physical health fo the people it was a woman who lead. Even when it came to battle, the women led just as much as the men. When Jake (forgive me I don’t know the AVATAR jargon) was becoming one of them and had to go on the journey and find the flying creature to bond with (please stop laughing at me) a woman was completing the journey as well.

    Now take a second and look at the current US….mostly doctors are male, mostly men are in military, men are the leaders. I thought that this movie portrayed a very powerful and strong side of women.

    I also greatly appreciated the message JC was sending. He sent the message in a way to make you think about where you are living, withtout bashing them.

    I think he did this perfectly because he concentrated on the lives of the other people in which they were invading. And so you bounded with them. You appreciated their life style along with Jake. We don’t do that in today’s society. The Na’vi look differently just like other countries we have invaded look differently. But JC went beyond their looks and into their values and souls. Whereas we always just concentrate on the outside because it’s the easiest to argue with and say that it’s wrong because it’s the complete opposite of ourselves but when you look beyond the outside and “see” the inside of people, example “I see you” than you connect to them and see you are JUST the same, and lines become blurry, and a shade of grey is created.

  24. I think one message it gave is no matter how much you need something of someone elses it dosent give you the right to take it.

  25. I felt like even though they were blue and another race they could have had more clothes on.

  26. @RaVenneSky
    I misunderstood Sylar’s message. I DO agree that females are strong in the movie, I just thought did I miss something so I drifted a bit.

    Seems the Na’vi, at least the Omaticaya, is a matriarchal society. The chieftain is defined as the spouse of the Tsahik, and it’s the Tsahik’s position which is inherited, not the chieftainship.

    Even Grace is strong there. She’s the lead scientist. She’s 60 (I mean Sigourney Weaver). She decided to separate her team from the military. She survived the bullet long enough until she witnessed Eywa…and don’t forget Trudy.

    I wonder why the leader of the plain’s clan is given a name specifically (Akwey)… sequel? In HK, we are now thinking is Tsu’tey really dead…

  27. No one has mentioned a couple of negatives I picked up on (and if you have I’m sorry I must have missed it!) so I will get those out of the way first!

    I thought Weaver’s performance was pretty weak in Avatar. I am a massive fan of her work (working with JC) in Aliens but don’t think JC got the best out of her this time. Then again… I’m not sure if the problem was with her performance or the character development in the script – either way I certainly wasn’t engaged in her character nor did I care what happened to her throughout the film.

    In terms of performance, the other thing I noticed was Sam Worthington’s Australian accent creeping through in certain scenes – especially the emotional ones. Don’t get me wrong – I think his performance was very strong – but the accent was a bit distracting for me at times (where was his voice/accent coach!).

    Overall, I thouroughly enjoyed the film. Visually stunning – I caught myself with my mouth open a few times and actually saying “WOW”. I was a 3D virgin prior to seeing Avatar and I’m glad JC was my first (ha ha!). I can only imagine how much work went into getting it right, when so much can go wrong in the filmmaking process. Bravo I say! I will definitly see it again in 2D as 790 suggests – will be an interesting comparison to make. Avatar has certainly set a new benchmark for the Hollywood Blockbuster. It will be interesting to see what’s next.

  28. South Park have allready done a parody of Avatar. The episode is called “Dances with the smurfs”.
    U should check it out, it’s hilarious!

  29. I just saw Avatar about three hours ago, so here is my take. Technically, amazing, definately one of the most impressive displays of the direction the future of cinema will be taking. But that said, alot of the whole philosophy didn't sit well with me at all. So I am a fairly left leaning, social conservative with a bit of a populist streak, more Johnny Cash than Johnny Carson. I found the whole fascination with the idea of a white damaged marine being the ultimate protector of an endangered race ripe for exploitation from the big,bad caucasian earthlings (for the most part). So let me get this right, it about 150 years, we are now reduced to exploiting planets that take more than five years in cryo sleep to reach in order to mine some super rock/metal and we will use these giant blue humanoid hand puppets to exploit the weaknesses of these “bugs/savages/cockroaches”. It just doesn't add up in so many ways, that not even just the fact that it is a MOVIE, is not enough reason to explain so many friggin inconsistencies. Not to mention the fact that it takes a white man to save these folks. It seems like Cameron has a huge guilt trip about something. And the predictability of the alpha male/hunter/protector/ noble savage dude who is hot for his blue lady leading to the fight scene between them in the tree was so lame. I just thought if the movie could have taken a more serious look at the political dynamics rather than just throwing out the most simple brutal behaviors that have become aligned with traditional roman-greco governing since around the time jesus was murdered. I think the movie would have seen alot more grounded if the blue folks just offed sigourney and sully and then attack the outpost and killed all the whiteys.

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