It’s sounding more and more like the original starship USS Enterprise - NCC-1701 has indeed been redesigned for Star Trek (11).
First came a report from IESB a month ago stating that the ship will have a new design in the movie. Now TrekWeb points us to a post over at the Star Trek New Voyages forum where James Cawley claims that he has seen the new starship Enterprise NCC-1701. Cawley is producer of the New Voyages fan-made Star Trek series and plays Captain Kirk as well.
He was not pleased with the new look of the iconic NCC-1701.
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On the forum, Cawley makes clear that he wants the film to succeed:
“I understand the reboot thing, it is simply business and a way to hopefully sell many more new action figures and toys based on new designs, it always comes down to the money to be made. I just don’t agree with changing such iconic designs that are so ingrained in pop culture, it is really needless.”
“I would be a hypocrite if I did not believe in recasting these iconic roles, I do in fact support it. I just don’t want the production design radically changed. I see Matt Jeffries’ designs as ‘TIMELESS’ and as ‘Pure Science Fiction’, I feel the Big E as designed by Matt deserves it’s day on the big screen.”
There’s no doubt that Cawley is a huge Star Trek fan as evidenced by the fact that he has put together enough money, people and resources to have created multiple “webisodes” of a series with very impressive sets and production values (they even had George Takei guest star in one episode). There’s no doubt that’s pretty hard core, but I think from his statements that he’s at least open to the concept of rebooting the series, even if he’s not totally in favor of it.
As to his specific thoughts on the redesigned Enterprise:
“Yes, I have seen the New REBOOTED Enterprise… at any rate, I don’t like it. It is supposed to be NCC-1701, no bloody A,B,C,D or E! and it sure does not look like the 1701 I grew up with!”
“I have seen what was purported to be the final design of the New Enterprise, and I don’t like the changes. Period.”
And what does it look like, exactly?
“…all I will say is that the ship design seems to borrow heavily from ‘Contemporary Trek.’”
From his comments it sounds like the ship will retain it’s overall saucer, main hull and twin nacelle configuration but within the confines of those elements you can still have a design that is very different from the original.
For reference purposes, here is a history of the design of the USS Enterprise on TV and in the movies:
This was the first Enterprise designed for the screen. The image above is from the newly remastered version of The Original Series and is a new CGI model. Notice how they avoided the temptation to “upgrade” it in any way. It’s completely faithful to the original.
This was the upgraded version used in the six films starring the original cast.
This ship was highlighted briefly in the awful Star Trek: Generations. It was on it’s inaugural journey and was the ship on which Captain Kirk was supposedly killed.
This ship was highlighted in the Star Trek: The Next Generation episode Yesterday’s Enterprise where it traveled through time to the future to meet Captain Picard and crew. You can see that it has more in common with the original ship and the 1701-A than it does with the 1701-B. That’s because it was designed in 1990 while the 1701-B was designed in 1994.
This is the ship that came about 100 years after Kirk’s era. It is monstrously huge and I was always torn regarding the look of it - from some angles it looks great but from others I always thought it look very ungainly.
This is the version that followed the destruction of the 1701-D. In my opinion it’s ugly as sin and I believe that it is supposed to be even larger than the already huge “D.”
Finally, here is the prime example of a new take on what is supposed to be a ship built 100 years before the NCC-1701:
Long time Trek fans went nuts when they first saw this design for the TV show Star Trek: Enterprise. It was obviously based on a flipped over version of an Akira-class ship from the Next Generation era of Star Trek, therefore looking much more advanced than the original Enterprise. This, despite the fact that it was supposed to have been built and designed 100 years before the NCC-1701.
Now granted, there is a brand new production team working on the new film. As far as I know no one associated with the old production is on this including any of the art/design team that defined the look of Star Trek for so long. Still, I think they may go a little bit overboard on the Enterprise redesign in order to make it more suitable for the big screen. I would have been ok with them using the same ship as the frame but adding a bit more detail to the exterior, but I get the feeling that they’re going to fiddle with the core look of the ship.
It will be interesting to finally see what they come up with, but personally I’m nervous about it. Star Trek is almost as much about the Enterprise as it is about it’s crew.
Oh, and finally… here is one fan’s interpretation of what a redesigned NCC-1701 should look like:
Source: Star Trek New Voyages forum (registration required) and images from Memory Alpha
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105 Comments
Vic,
I’m on a Star Trek movie kick, and watching re-runs of TNG, since the 20 anniversary two or so months ago. I hope this re-launch is great.
Heath
Vic
They should use the Enterprise that’s been CGI enhanced in TOS remasters.
It looks great and unchanged from the original model from the 60’s.
^
I can think of another Ship that was changed from its original incarnation for a film reboot “Jupiter2″.
Lost in Space.
^
Any Lost in Space fans out there like that new ship?? Or the reboot?
^
Changing the ship design is a clear indication that Star Trek Cannon will be tweaked for that new audience there hoping to attract at the expense of the long-time Trek fans.
I see the same mistakes here that happened with “Enterprise”.
^
I personnally don’t see this “key to success” working for this film. The opening weekend will be hard-core fans and trekkers. And if they piss them off the word of mouth and the other films also launched in Dec 08 will destroy Trek11.
^
December 08 “The Hobbit” comes out ready to steal all those “new fans”. Not to mention “The Day the Earth Stood Still”. Pretty big compatition December 08. I don’t think they fully thought this through. »»
But then came that hideous organic monstrosity…
I know that generally filmmakers like to add more detail to a large model for showing on a big movie screen. They did make changes to the Enterprise-D for the Generations. I wouldn’t mind the addition of SOME detail to the exterior, but a wholesale change to the design bugs me.
BTW, I’m 99% sure that “The Hobbit” does not come out in December ‘08. Maybe ‘09…
And I don’t see “Day the Earth Stood Still” being either a big audience movie or competition for Trek.
Vic
i will judge it when i see it .
I’m a fan of Star Trek, but not so religious to the changes of the Enterprise. In fact, I somewhat welcome a little change to the orginal NCC-1701 just not so much the Reborn look. But, I also like Star Trek:TNG, Star Trek: Voyager, and Deep Space 9.:P
I don’t mind a few minor “enhancements” but I for one don’t want to see a wholesale redesign. Then again, as Gary said… I’ll just wait to see what they come up with.
Vic
Personally,I like the original ship and the NCC-1701-A best.
I’m not AS familiar with this stuff as some of ya’ll,but I prefer the original TV show and the fisrt 3 films (especially 2)out of the 6 film franchise,FYI.
I personally am excited about the new take on the franchise,I like the cast except for Simon Pegg (who’s brittish) as Scotty (who’s,ya know,scottish),who might turn out to be a good choice after all,as left field as it sounds. I hope the ship is similar to the versions I mentioned above,cuz when they add TOO much detail,it looks crappy,IMO,less sleek if ya know what I mean.
Bring on the new flick!
The reason I liked the original was the lack of frilly bits. The NCC-1701-D looked like some kid got into the glitter and spilled it all over the designs and no one figured it out until they built all the models.
I like the NX-01 design because it looks like a bunch of Navy boilermakers welded it together. Which fits the navy theme. In the next hundred years material technology advanced sufficiently that aesthetics once again took over, so by the TOS era they were experts at hiding seams and sensors. Heck, they even took pride in it.
Later on, in what some would call the Dark Ages of Roddenberrian aesthetics, the Romulans would point out some minor clauses in the Federation/Romulan treaty which not only forced the Federation not to pursue cloaking technology but to make sure that they had as many blinking lights and reflective surfaces as possible.
J Jona Abrhams sould have come out day one and said “I will not change the look of the Enterprise”. He would have won over alot of old schoolers…and new fans.
^
But I see the pre-buzz on this film weighing it down in the coming months.
I agree that some things just shouldn’t be messed with, but I reserve judgement until I see it on the big screen. After all, it’s a big budget movie. Everything’s going to have to look updated, even though it’s an era just prior to TOS, or it’ll be laughable. Let’s just hope it isn’t laughable because it’s *too* updated.
Of course if they screw it up…
Vic
Slight error - the Enterprise-B seen in Generations was actually the Excelsior miniature from Star Trek III, designed in 1983-84, well before anything from The Next Generation.
That said, I would hope the new production team shows due respect to the original designs–we should be able to recognize the classic Enterprise as the classic Enterprise, regardless of any increased detail or minor modifications–but the production design doesn’t need to be slavish in its mimicry. I mean, kudos to James Cawley for his detailed recreation of the original sets in the New Voyages, but a lot of that stuff just doesn’t look realistic now. I’m not expecting to see papier mâché rocks either.
Damn… missed that. Thanks for pointing it out. Don’t you think that makes the design of the “C” even a bit more confusing?
Thanks,
Vic
I don’t like the sound of this. This seems to me like this movie may well go the way of the Transformers movie. As a fan of both franchises I have to say that would not be a good thing. Suddenly I’m having horrifying images of the Enterprise as a skeleton of itself with cutlery welded to the outer hull intended to be phaser banks and photon torpedo launchers.
I don’t seriously expect them to go that route, but what I’m hearing doesn’t sound like it will be much better.
I have been a Trekker since 1966. As far as I am concerned Star Trek has a history. That history, to me, is as valid as the 1966 Mustang. If you make a movie about the 60’s you can’t redesign the cars that were there without looking foolish.
Everyone knows what the original Enterprise looks like. To change it beyond cosmetic changes would render the Star Trek Movie not about Star Trek.
If they wanted to change things they should have gone to the Enterprise-F.
I really hate to say this but if they change the Big E too much, I will not even bother to see the new movie. Star Trek was created and made by Gene Roddenberry. That is what Star Trek is. If you want to change it into something else have the decency to call it something else.
sarpok, your concerns are not uncommon, at least in my experience. Most of the old-time fans I know do not even like the remastered Star Trek, and that was determined to remain faithful to the original.
Given that they’re talking about redesigning the original Enterprise, not updating it, and the fact that Sci-Fi Wire recently referred to this movie as a reboot, I can imagine most of the long time fans, especially those from the early days of Star Trek, are going to feel the same way you do.
Vic
Vic you can see from these posts that alot of readers want the Enterprise concept left alone.
^
Were all going to wait to see the finished product to fully judge, but its safe to say the older Trek fans won’t like the changes if they occur drasticly.
^
And the other thing is this new crowd , I just don’t see them making a difference on this film. Its the old-schoolers and their kids that Abhrams needs to capture to make this a success.
^
I’m glad there’s a core group out there that respects the awesomness of the NCC 1701 Enterprise.
I have a post coming later in the week talking about it.
Vic
I know it’s not realistic to expect them to leave the original design alone. After all, the first time the original Enterprise made the transition from TV to movie theaters they redesigned it. Still, I feel there’s a line that shouldn’t be crossed.
I have no problems with them updating the original design. Making it more detailed and fixing up the design to look better on a larger screen is fine. Completely redesigning it, however, will probably backfire on them.
Quoting a hack that makes embarrassing work of the characters that Shatner, Nimoy and Kelley perfected is shameful.
Cawley wouldn’t know a good reboot design if it came and gave him a vulcan neck pinch.
I do not Know what the new enterprise should look like! But the new enterprise should look the same bit more detail on the whole ship fitting for a movie. nothing drastic like the motion picture.
Ideally, I agree with you. I don’t know if they’ll have the self-control to stick to that design concept though!
Vic
I wonder if they ever considered leaving the exterior alone and focusing on making updates to the interfaces of the interior. The exterior is smooth and sleek but the computers and screens inside look dated. Replacing thick monitors and big buttons with sleek interfaces without buttons and traditional screens (holographic and motion sensing systems perhaps) would feel more updated. You could still keep the general design though.
I’m pretty sure the interior electronics are all going to be upgraded…. IMO thell prob make the bridge design the same with a few small upgrades.
Same with the outer look of the Enterprise. (Let’s hope the don’t forget all the neat sound effects that identify the show, energising and red alert) all better sound the same..
One thing the messed up in STTMP.
^
It will IMO be upgraded the same with a few less rounded angles. I could see the nacelles looking more high tech and the saucer section as well.
But the overall look will be the same (big and off white). (IMO).
^^^
Let me be the first to predict that if they violate the basic look of the ship and the uniforms this film will fail…..big time in a comedic way that will prob damage the show permantly.
^
Abrhams and partners have to make the perfect Star Trek movie at this point….there’s no altering course…
^
So many critics are waiting to tear this film a new aft photon torpedo tube its not even funny.
^
I wonder if jj knew it was going to be this fine of a line to trek down.
If basic cannon laws are shelved then its over.
Zac Quinto better
hope Sylar lives on a few more seasons on Heroes. Because if this bombs that will be the only place he will have a fan base. The Star Trek fans would rag on him for light years…
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The writers strike.
elections or another bush war.
Star Trek hit or miss,
Speedracer,Dark Knight and Ironman to say a few…..
The next 12 months are going to be epic even in real life……………………..=€
Sean, I disagree however with holographic bridge controls.
^
That’s too far ahead of what we call Star Trek cannon.
^
=€
Let’s face it, they have a 150 million dollar budget. I’m all for the reboot concept, I’ll bet the enterprise will look as similar to the original as the new actors will look like the original cast…similar but a new take, a new portrayal. As long as the spin a great yarn it will be cool.
I, like all of you am a Star Trek fan (except DS9 which just didn’t do it for me) I can really understand where all of you are comming from in regards to the new design, however I also know that I absolutly love the new design for the Enterprise. I just think its’ her time to be modernised.
It has already been pointed out that you were wrong in a few places… With that said, I think the Enterprise-E is the most beautiful ship ever created, in any sci-fi universe. My heart started to bleed when I saw it getting hurt in the horrible movie “Star Trek: Nemesis”.
Vic
I’m a big fan and the old series helped me during the earlie years of my parents ramp of the 60’s/70s. Then the movies took off and the rest is history. We need to remember the fact that James Kirk was “NOT” the first captain of the NCC-1701 Enterprise. Christopher Pike was the man in the seat and the ship was the same on the out side as when James T. Kirk took command. So they should bring back the old ship and leave it at that. William Shatner said it best, “Why don’t you people get a live”. LOL! You got to love that guy. Reality checks are needed often.
Personally, I’m not even eager to see this Star Trek 11. I probably won’t even go. I’ve been a fan of Trek for over 25 years and I stopped watching it when Voyager ended. I was even getting sick of it during Voyager because it was so predictable and insulting. I didn’t watch ENTERPRISE, still haven’t seen a single episode of it because I knew they’d screw that up and they did. As long as they use the same idiots like Rick Berman and whatever no-talent-director they can nab for the week, Star Trek will never be anything more but repedative mundane puke. When they started veering away from Roddenberry’s view, they killed it. Even Gene knew it would happen because too many executives hounded him day after day to spice things up to compete with other television shows. He held his guns and the show lasted with a core fan base for over 20 years. Now we have this guy who’s only intrest in Star Trek is the profit margine not the integrity of the concept. That’s why I know this new movie will fall short with fans. I won’t have to see it to know. Just as I didn’t need to see ENTERPRISE to know it would bomb too.
If they want to bring Star Trek back from the dead, go to the fans who know it well. Take a look at some of the novelizations of Star Trek that are out there. You’re going to find a lot of untapped talent that Paramount simply won’t acknowledge because it’s not cannon. These outside writers and fans are what will bring Trek back to life.
Berman and Braga are not involved in making the new movie at ALL, bro. Completely new group of folks brought in to work on this… COMPLETELY.
Vic
Speaking in issue #117 of Dreamwatch magazine, Berman confirms for the first time that he is now developing a STAR TREK feature film project: “I am involved in the very early stages of what could be the next STAR TREK movie,” reveals Berman, in an excerpt provided by Dreamwatch. “It’s something I will be producing with two other producers.”
This was a direct quote from Dreamwatch magazine, Vic. So how “new” can this new group be?
21 April 2006 (StudioBriefing)
The hopes of millions of aging Trekkies that their revered movie/TV franchise would be revived got a boost today (Friday) when Daily Variety reported that Paramount has signed J.J. Abrams (Mission Impossible III) to produce and direct an 11th Star Trek feature. The trade paper said that the screenplay, to be written by MI3’s Alex Kurtzman and Roberto Orci, will concern the first meeting of James Kirk and Mr. Spock at the Starfleet Academy and their first mission. In effect, it revives a project called Star Trek: Beginnings that produced a script by Erik Jendresen. It was unclear what, if any, role longtime Star Trek executive producer Rick Berman would play in the new project.
This quote was from IMDB web site. Again it indicates Berman has his hands in this prequal movie.
I’d pay $20 a ticket if it insured that Rick Berman was allowed nowhere near the Trek franchise again.
Nevertheless, with the approach of the end of the fourth season of Enterprise, Paramount and UPN announced its cancellation and the apparent end of Rick Berman’s tenure as the overseer of Star Trek productions. With the end of Enterprise, word came from Berman and Paramount than an eleventh feature was in the works, with Berman partnering with screenwriter Erik Jendresen on what was tentatively titled Star Trek: The Beginning. However, by April 2006, new leadership at Paramount suggested that Berman’s involvement in Star Trek had ended and the producer had moved on to other projects.
Speaking with Star Trek Monthly, Berman described his departure:
“Without sounding clichéd I’m not going to say never, but I assume that I have produced my last Star Trek, especially with the interest that Paramount has gotten from J.J. Abrams to do another movie, which, if successful, could lead to other television shows… I have nothing to be ashamed about. We created 624 hours of television and four feature films and I think we did a hell of a job. I’m amazed that we managed to get 18 years of the kind of work that everyone involved managed to contribute, and it’s certainly more than anyone could have asked for.”
Ok, I found this quote from ‘memory alpha’ web site that indicates that Berman started on Star Trek 11 but left Paramount because his contract ended in Dec. of 06′ So I stand corrected. Berman apparently is no longer involved with the new movie.
Not even the Okudas, who’ve done much of the visual FX design for so long in Trek are involved.
Clean. Slate.
Will it be any good? That we won’t know until we see it.
Vic
(Hey sports fans)
Rick Berman is off the radar for now.
Personally I love Rick Bermans work. He produced some great Star Trek.
Manny Cotto and Brannon Braga are both writting episodes of season 7 of, 24.
I know that the Okudas still do some work for Paramount and sometimes are hired for their data and research skills.
Paramount used them to cronicle all the props that went up in the Christys Auction a couple years back.
I’ve heard that the Auction Guide is rare and very cool.
Had lots of pictures of all the props.
(See know how stupid Paramount is, they could have published that as a book and made even more money). Duh if I can think of this. Wtf??
Ok, I have to jump in and give my 2 cents. I see some people in here sort of bashing Star Trek: The Motion Picture and even comparing that movie to whats being done with Star Trek 11.
First off, there is no comparison. Let me explain. The story of Star Trek: TMP took place in 2271, a few years after the ship completed it’s fourth five year mission. The first one under Robert April, the second and third under Captain Pike and the fourth under Captain Kirk. So the ship already had a history under it’s belt, just as Gene Roddenberry wanted it to have. So you figure the ship at the end of this time needed a major overhaul before striking out on another extended voyage. That’s why the Enterprise looked so different in ST:TMP. Gene wasn’t trying to retread old ground like they’re doing with Star Trek 11. He was simply holding true to how technology and things had advanced in the 23rd century.
Secondly, as Star Trek films go, The Motion Picture was probably closer to Gene’s vision of Star Trek than any other Trek film made afterward. I know this is going to tick off a few of you Wrath of Khan fans, but let me ask you this; what part of Wrath of Khan involved seeking out new life and new civilizations? Wrath of Khan was nothing more than an action/drama that simply focused on revisiting an old character from the original series and how he intended to get revenge. Big deal! Oh and I forgot, just to spice up the movie interest a little, they killed off a major character, whom later came back. At least in Star Trek:TMP, we were treated with the human condition and the concept of evolution. We saw familiar characters change and grow and saw an ending filled with possibility not finality. That to me is what defines Star Trek. Sure it may sound unrealistic and too flowery for some of todays sci-fi fans, but it is the concept of what Gene created and what has made it endure. Why turn our backs on it just for a cheap sci-fi thriller? The best sci-fi ever created makes us all ask ourselves questions and look at where we’re going as a race. Sometimes it can scare the hell out of us because it hits so close to home. To me Star Trek:TMP was widely criticized because at the time, everyone was all pumped up on Star Wars action. People wanted to see the Enterprise blow up a fleet of ships while Kirk and Spock got into hand to hand combat with a bunch of red clad warriors. People had forgotten what Star Trek was—so did Paramount. But Gene, held to his convictions and delivered his vision, without catering to the influences that be.
So I think people, when they get tired of the spoon fed action sci-fi stories, need to sit down and give Star Trek: The Motion Picture another chance.
How can you possibly think the Enterprise-E Is ugly as sin. The ugliest ship is the NX Enterprise, it looks like an aluminum can with two tooth picks!
I hate that ship.
The NX-O1 is a Akira Class attack ship turned upside down.
One of Rick Bermans low points.
Not much creativity went into the NX-01 Enterprise. As someone pointed out, it’s just an upside down version of the Akira class vessel first seen in Star Trek: First Contact. Many fans were surprised to say the least that Berman had gone that route with the Enterprise, since many fans assumed the Enterprise would have looked more like a DAEDALUS class vessel. If you look at the Star Trek Chronology published by Michael Okuda and Denise Okuda, the DAEDALUS class vessels existed around the same time period as the era of Star Trek: Enterprise, and yet none were ever seen. So there was some continuity issues here.
I know this is way of the topic, but has anyone heard of a possible stat trek tv show? They also need to finish the TNG movie series, they can’t possibly end it with Nemesis. I heard that Jonathan frakes had a great script for a movie, and they put them to sleep. Just who the hell is running the Star Trek franchise anyway?
Vic
As far as I’m concerned, they need to give ‘Trek’ a rest. For 20+ years there have been non stop Star Trek episodes (Next Generation, DS9, Voyager, Enterprise) and I think they’ve worn it out, and it showed on the last 2 series they had going and the recent movies. They should have stopped it after DS9. I for one am willing to wait 10 years before getting into another version of Star Trek.
“As far as I’m concerned, they need to give ‘Trek’ a rest. For 20+ years there have been non stop Star Trek episodes and I think they’ve worn it out…..I for one am willing to wait 10 years before getting into another version of Star Trek.”
Jeff, I absolutely agree with this. I don’t know whether it was the creative team running out of ideas, or the fans getting overloaded, something else entirely, or any combination of the above, but I believe Star Trek has been worn out. To varying degrees, I’ve enjoyed all the series and movies to date, though Enterprise nearly lost me , especially with its third season.
It’s only been three years since Enterprise was canceled. Paramount needs to give the series a rest for a few more years. Give fans time to really get hungry for it again, give the creative end of things time to get some new ideas, and give the real world a chance to give Star Trek something new to talk about. Until those things happen, I believe any new Star Trek project will probably just be a rehash of what it’s done before, and that’s not what the series needs.
You know, if you look back at what’s been done, there is very little left that Star Trek can really come up with that is fresh, unless they did a Star Trek comedy series (Just joking here). There isn’t one topic that humanity isn’t dealing with today that hasn’t already been addressed in some episode. I think because of that fact, many episodes seemed to be remakes of prior episodes. I think it was this issue that brought down the franchise.
George Lucas was smart with his Star Wars franchise. He didn’t overplay it and he let demand for it build when there was nothing but books to feed his fans. Then he released his second trilogy. But with his franchise, he can go in any direction he wants with it because those fans are more interested in the Star Wars galaxy than with a certain group of characters. The fans want to know all aspects of the world of Star Wars, from the Empire to the Rebellion to the world of the Ewoks to the Bounty Hunters to the events that took place 1000 years before to the Jedi and sith. I mean there is so much to look at and feed on. But with prior Star Trek episodes, we’re limited to where the ship went each week and many things were left unfinished.
I think if Star Trek were to continue, it’s going to have to treat fans to a much larger concept of the future. They want to see more than just the Federation. And by doing so they will have to maintain a strick level of continuity that has been poorly followed in the past. You can still see the human side of things in a series about klingons. I think Trek fans are ready for the series that is about Vulcan in the past or the story of how the Romulans came to be.
So this is what I think they should do. Make a Star Trek series that is about the future. One episode about the Romulans, another on Vulcan, another on Ferenginar, another on Kronos, another on Earth…etc. each episode will focus on a group of the people native to that world and the issue they happen to be dealing with. This way we get to see so many new faces. We can be treated to some new insight into a world we didn’t know existed. Some episodes could be 2 parters or 3, however long it takes to tell a story properly. You could even entertwine episodes where the actions on one planet effects what happens on another the following week. This makes the Star Trek universe much more intricate and interesting. Also, this would be good for actors who would like to have time doing other things and not get tied down on a weekly basis doing a series. They could come in for a few episodes and still have time to do something else in their career. It would also boost their recognition. But there would have to be new writers and the door to new ideas open from other writers and fans. Let it be an open market where the concerns and needs of fans are actually listened to.
Jeff you claim Star Trek is done and can only become a comedy. Then you go and spark off a bunch of ideas that they could do?
Witch is it bro?
Are they done or just not writing your favorite storys?
(Lucas was smart he didn’t overplay it) you have got to be kidding me.
“Jeff you claim Star Trek is done and can only become a comedy. Then you go and spark off a bunch of ideas that they could do?
Witch is it bro?
Are they done or just not writing your favorite storys?
(Lucas was smart he didn’t overplay it) you have got to be kidding me. ;-)”
Star Trek as we’ve known is done. The ideas I was speaking of is something that in a few years Star Trek could do in order to try and make a comeback. It wouldn’t work now because people are tired of it all. But in a few years when people’s interest is sparked again, they could do a Star Trek in a way that hasn’t been done before. A way that would broaden people’s view of Gene Roddenberry’s vision of the future. I think it’s a way that could sustain Star Trek for a decade.
And by the way, Lucas went a very VERY long time before doing another trilogy. So it’s pretty safe to say that he hasn’t overplayed Star Wars in so much the same way Paramount has overplayed Star Trek to death.
I agree that Star Trek needs a break, 5 to ten years. Perhaps its on a phase like the one between the original series and the next generation and that was a long gap, about 15 years! Going back to what i said a few days ago, i believe it’s only just for the cast and fans to see a final next generation movie. One with a pivital ending ending Picards command of the Enterprise-E, not necessarily Dying. While on the subject of endings, personally i think the only series that had a better ending was Deep Space Nine. And Voyager, well i am not even going to touch that with a five foot pole. How she became an admiral i don’t know. Not only did she mess up the time line on several occassions, she brought back technology from the future. The armored plating and transphase torpedos. Lol!, there goes the balance of power in the alpha quadrant!! Going back to the original subject submitted in the last few days… I think this new movie is going to make matters worse for Star trek. Re inventing Star Trek with the original Characters is not going to work. Star trek needs to move on. This is a perfect example of Star trek is doing wrong as one of you metioned. IT’S BEEN DONE!. This movie is probably going to kill Star trek for good. I mean if it is succesful somehow, what do they plan to do next? Make more movies? I really think it’s not going to work. And if they do, it will be like the original series never existed, like being erased. I mean Batman is one thing, and it worked great with Batman Begins. But with an era of star trek, i don’t think so. What they should have done is made one last next generation movie like i stated earlier, end picards era and leave it to the future to see what evolves in the Star Trek universe. A 5 to ten year brake. The only way Star Trek will be revived is through a well thought out t.v show not a movie. That movie coming out is such a Dead End. I mean do you really want to see another Kirk and spock?
OMG!! It was really late when i wrote the comment above. Actually more like early when i wrote this. Sorry for the terrible grammar.
“Perhaps its on a phase like the one between the original series and the next generation and that was a long gap, about 15 years!”
“The only way Star Trek will be revived is through a well thought out t.v show not a movie.”
17 years, actually, and it was closer to 10 years after the end of the original series before the first movie, even less if you count the animated series from the 70’s. And Star Trek was originally revived by way of a movie, there’s no reason to believe that it couldn’t happen again.
The big difference I’m seeing between the first Trek revival and this current attempt at one is that there was so little material available for fans of Star Trek back then. 79 episodes, only available as reruns, and 2 seasons of a Saturday morning cartoon, maybe some comic books, and a few fairly bad novels. Today we’ve got 5 complete series, with hundreds of episodes, available on DVD for viewing anytime someone wants to watch them, 10 movies also on DVD, hundreds of novels, both good and bad, and an ongoing comics series for those who are interested.
With all of that, I don’t believe that the fans are truly going to be as hungry for new material, movies or a TV series, for several more years. When they are, though, I believe it could easily be a new movie that kicks things off. What better way to gauge fan reaction than to see how a movie performs before committing to a full series?
I think what you said is possible FlameStrike. But this time they are using the same characters with a different cast. It is not original or fresh. Star Trek The Motion Picture was original and fresh, same chast and characters. What we are all going to see next year is a re-invention of something already made. Star Trek needs to stop going to the past of Star Trek for material.
Doing so, will continue sabotage the time line we all know from the original series and the next generation. Like the episode of Enterprise about the borg. If you remember, in first contact. The Enterprise-E blew the borg sphere to hell with three quantum torpedoes. Then they make an episode about the sphere crashing in the artic on Enterprise. LOl!, if you saw that episode it shows a wreck of half a sphere on top of the ice with some intact borg drones. I mean, COME ON!
A perfect example of how the Enterprise producers and writers had their head up their ass when they created Enterprise. The reason why it failed miserably. Star Trek 2009 will most likely fail the same way. What do they plan to do?, make more movies? How is this going to help launch a new t.v show with a movie about a cast of characters that already have been done. It seems like more of the same, same, same. I don’t mind seeing a new joker or scarecrow and so forth. But i don’t want to see another kirk and spock. I mean what do they plan to do if they get a t.v show. Re do all the original episodes with these new people. Or perhaps create all new ones, which will erase and sabotage the original series we all know and love. Even if they make more movies it will have the same damage. What ever path this takes it is a dead end.
What they should have done is create a movie about the stability of the alpha quadrant after the dominion war. With a new crew and ship. based on a broad perspective on all the races and how they evolved after the war. The are so many great possibilities and ideas that can come out from this post war alpha quadrant. This would be moving forward in time in the Star Trek universe, not backwards.
Alexander, I agree with you that they should move forward, and I agree that they should wait a few more years before doing so. My previous post was simply trying to make the point that a movie is the most likely way to gauge whether the fans are going to be up to supporting a new series. It took four movies before they made “The Next Generation,” and that was as a time when there was far less Star Trek material than there is today
Now, as for going back, I don’t entirely agree with you. If you have good writers and a good idea, it should be possible to go back and work within the gaps of the timeline to create a new story in an earlier timeframe. The problem is getting the good writers and actors to make sure it’s done well. I don’t know about the actors, but this Trek movie does not have good writers.
I’ll also have to disagree with you about having them deal with the aftermath of the Dominion War. I think that’s too close to what’s been done before. I’d say move ahead even further, move out of the 24th century and into the 25th. Set things up 100 years after Picard, Sisko and Janeway, and see how things are developing there. Who know, maybe they’ll have advanced to the point where the Federation is exploring the Magellanic Clouds.
Flamestrike. There are no gaps in the original series with kirk and spock. If you “recall” Cristopher pike was captain of the Enteprise in the original series. Then in the middle of the first season James T. Kirk took over. The only gaps that exist in the star trek universe is between Enterprise and the original series, and the gap between the original series and the next generation.
There is no gap to fill in the original series, “kirk and crew”. The only possible gap was between the series and movies. During this time James T. kirk was an admiral, while Captain Decker was in command of the Enterprise for five years, till Star Trek The Motion Picture when decker was declaired “missing” and Kirk took over in the wrath of khan with spock’s permission.
The new movie in 2009, is set to take place in the academy days of kirk and spock, and their first space mission. LOL!! spock’s first space mission was with captain Cristopher pike and crew. The movie is not even out yet and they already messed up! Kirk and crew’s first space mission was when kirk took over the enterprise near end of season one. But for the sake of turning the cheek to that, lets say OK this is their first mission. And ignore the time line “hopefully” everyone knows.
Still,if they keep making movies or a t.v show with this new cast. It will overwrite the original series episodes and movies that we all know and love. So i mind as well throw away all the the original series episodes and movies because now they no longer exist. So now it becomes a parody, then u sit and go hmm? What Star trek fans fail to see is that they are pulling a Batman Begins. Re-doing the same thing but with a new cast, characters and different plots. Batman Can be overwriten over and over till the end of time, and it will work like “Begins” Why, Because it’s Batman not Star trek. Batman is simple, good guy catches bad guy, and Batman always wins!. Star Trek is more complex, you just cant erase and over write a whole era like the original series. If this movie succeeds and they make more movies or if the cast goes straight to t.v. Star Trek will never be the same. I will see the movie like every Star Trek fan, but i hope it fails. Then Star Trek can cool off for some years and take a new crack at it in the in 7 to 10 years. With post next generation future or a far future. Like the Magellanic clouds that orbit the Milky Way, cool idea! I hope people really do understand that they are trying to re-do Star Trek the original series and not fill in the gaps. Because there are no gaps to be filled in with Kirk, Spock And crew. Like i said before it’s done!
This new movie, from what I can tell, is already screwing up the Star Trek Timeline. If you recall, Doctor McCoy wasn’t originally assigned to the Enterprise as CMO at the start of Kirk’s 5 year mission. Check out the episode “Where No Man Has Gone Before.” And I believe that they have an actor cast to play “Bones” in this movie.
Pike was never in command during the fist season of TOS.
I do agree that Spock and Kirk never met in the Academy and that yes it seems they got that wrong, HOWEVER , I have a feeling that when Spock goes back in time, things change to Star Trek Canon…
Alexander, you are wrong. Flat out wrong.
First off, in terms of film time, Chris Pike was only the Enterprise Captain in one episode of the original series: The Cage/The Menagerie in “archive footage.” Kirk was the Captain of Enterprise in every other episode of the original series. Also there are plenty of gaps between episodes, there are potentially two entire years of the original series’ five-year mission to see, and there’s whatever we didn’t see between “The Cage” and “Where No Man Has Gone Before”, which could include much of Pike’s tenure as Enterprise Captain.
As for Decker, he took over as Captain of the Enterprise during the time Enterprise was being refitted after the end of the five-year mission we saw part of in the original series. He never commander Enterprise on a five-year mission, though it’s possible that Kirk may have commanded a second one after The Motion Picture, and that is certainly an area that could be explored. On top of which, there’s the time period between “The Final Frontier” and “The Undiscovered Country” which could easily be a few years unto itself since Enterprise-A was only on it’s first adventure in Trek 5 and was going to be decommissioned in Trek 6.
In addition, there were a few other ships in the fleet at that time, and anyone who wants to revisit that era could certainly show the adventures those ships had. We could also visit the time when Robert April was said to be in command of NCC-1701. All it takes is a little imagination, some good writers, and people willing to make the effort, and you could easily fill in those gaps if that’s what Trek fans wanted to see.
None of that, however, says to me that they should move forward in the timeline. Most of that exploration can be left to novels and comics, where it’s been done for most of the past 30+ years.
I’m done with the Constitution class era…..GTFOOHWTS!
This is all you need for the next Star Trek tv show, Captain Tuvok, Voyagers advanced technology, section 31, Jake Sisko, and a war accross the multiverse.
Ok forget the Mulitverse war.
But seriously I’m fricken done with Kirk and fricken spock ok…..
I’m 50/50 on this new film.
Sure would be cool if its good, sure would be good if it bombs… Those are my Trekker gut feelings. Ether way were gonna have lots to chat about soon.
Plenty more stories to tell in that era as far as I’m concerned.
Vic
Gene Roddenberrys Star Trek world of Infinite Diversity, in Infinite Combinations, is tearing us apart!!!!
FlameStrike does make a lot of points in his last entry. There are many timeline gaps Paramount could have chosen that would have made great areas to explore in movies and television. The fact that so many writers are filling in those gaps with ‘non-cannon’ material, should give people an indication that there is a deep interest in those areas. Why Paramount never bothers to check this out is beyond me. But it’s this lack of listening to fans and following where they think they can make the most money that has brought the franchise where it is today. It is also the reason fans are beating themselves silly over the topic of putting Trek to rest. If they’re going to be ignored, they’re not going to watch it anymore. It’s as simple as that.
LOL!! I think all of us should just get together and save Star Trek. What do you all say? :)!!!
Well, if any issue should rally “Trekkers” to do something positive and meaningful these days, it shouldn’t be for a television show, it should be to save this country from ruin. I think the real world needs us more than Paramounts’ pockets.
Hey Jeff. Have you heard of “Homeland Security emergency mandate order 20″?
That’s scary!
What mandate is that 790?
Oh its just a special homeland security law that bush signed into effect last year.
It gives a President the power to suspend congressional law in times of extreme emergency and or crisis in any state or states.
The state of crisis will be decided on by the President and his staff.
Something like that,,,
Alexander, I’m all with ya on rebuilding a new Star Trek series. I’m sure between all the awesome writers that come here every day we could do it easy. The prob is the execs at paramount studios. They don’t want to commit to a weekly tv show til after this new film comes out.
And then I’m still betting unless the movie does Iron Man numbers they won’t do one.
They’ll prob give the film a sequel and see where it goes from there.
I would love to see a tv show that carrys on past the DS9, Voyager timeline.
Bring back the actors that want to do it and go!!!!
790, I completely agree. I wish i was rich and had the resources to do such a thing.
At least we have the dvds.
The only way this new Movie is going to bring a turn out that’ll mean a relaunch of the franchise, is if the movie starts and finishes with blood and guts, and Captain Kirk is being dragged through space clinging to his ship by a whip. LOL! What I’m saying here is that in order for this movie to work, they’re going to have to aim for a different kind of audience and not the loyal ‘Trek’ fan base that is already upset with this idea.
Well the fact that JJ. Abhrams is now in charge, is deffinitly going to bring in a new demo.
However will that audience relate to Star Trek?
I think the biggest problem with this (going backwards to Kirk & Spock) is what do you do if the film is a success?
Ok you make a sequel or two, then what?,,, Are we then going to be stuck in TOS timeline? A timeline that if made into a new tv show will prob look more high tech then the Next Generation…?
(Imo).
I think the vfx are going to make the hardcore fans happy but overall ,I think its a big mistake in so many ways going backwards.
Well, if going backwards in the timeline has some relevant meaning to the overall timeline, then this movie can be done. Like if someone from the future went back to save history from being changed. But if every movie after that is a sequal to the continuation of the story of Kirk in the 23rd century, then it becomes a problem. So this movie, good or bad, can only be a one time thing if the story is done right. If it’s not then they run the risk of making continuity problems which could really tick off a lot of people who know Star Trek better than they do.
I don’t know if this issue has ever been discussed, maybe it has but I never seen it or heard about it. Does anyone recall how when ENTERPRISE started on television, we were introduced to 22nd Century Vulcan’s. Aside from the fact that they seemed more emotional, which I know everyone picked up on, did anyone pick up on the notion that humanity was being depicted as a hopeless race?
Yet another reason why I hated ENTERPRISE.
Let me be more specific. Gene Roddenberry’s view of the future was that at some point, humanity would come out of the ashes of a terrible war and the survivors would finally realize that hatred and violence wasn’t the way. Peace and mutual cooperation for a higher good had to be the way or humanity could never survive. On ENTERPRISE, we were basically told that humanity owes it’s thanks to the Vulcan’s for being able to leave the solar system and make a new future for themselves. But we could only achieve that goal if we abided by the lessons taught us by the Vulcan’s. Those lessons being, peace is the way and mutual cooperation if we are to survive. You see how that got twisted?
Basically what Rick Berman was saying is, Gene was wrong. Humanity will never learn how to stop being violent unless a superior outside force is brought in to teach us how to act like them, and then dangle a carrot in front of us (that being the right to leave the solar system) as a goal so humans will keep trying. This is nice, but it’s flawed. How many prophets and statesmen have we been treated to over the centuries that have done the same thing? Moses, Jesus, Gandhi, JKF…etc., the list goes on. But humanity never seems to alter it’s direction. Gene was right. When humans or just a person is faced with their possible extinction, we wake up real fast and as they say, ‘we get into religion and realize what’s important in life.’
Also, since RB decided that the basis for the prime directive is a Vulcan belief, which humans had to adapt to in order to travel in outer space, why would they violate their own belief to assist such a savage race as us?
Well Jeff. That’s a pretty vague point since well never know what Gene would have done. I didn’t see a problem with the Vulcans in Enterprise , maybe it was the fact that they got allmost everything else wrong during those first two seasons.
(I will say this, about your humanity theory) Vulcans, would be targeted and their ships shot at if they tried to land her now…
And humanity had to go thru WW3 before we calmed down enough to make First Contact.
(Also this statment)
We get into religion and realize what’s important in life.
Maybe during the 40’s. I don’t see this happening in todays culture…..
Allways enjoy reading your stuff Jeff….;-)
Socialism operates under the idea that the above is not true, but it is. While I love Star Trek, the undertone is socialist IMHO.
Vic
“Gene was an idealist but like many liberals, naive in thinking that mankind will “evolve” out if it’s base, ingrained tendencies. There will always be good people but there will also always be bad. Give certain people everything they want and they’ll STILL be unsatisfied and want what others have.
Socialism operates under the idea that the above is not true, but it is. While I love Star Trek, the undertone is socialist IMHO.”
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You’re assuming, Vic that Gene’s idea that humans in the future would be all perfect isn’t exactly what Gene’s original Star Trek series portrayed. And it wasn’t what I was trying to say. If you recall we saw crazy psychologists, drug smugglers, people blinded with revenge and obsessions, political snobs…etc., there was a definate sign that humanity was still dealing with the basic deamons we deal with today. But what Gene was trying to say in Star Trek was that humanity can still achieve great and wonderful things and create for ourselves a future worth living for, as long as we control and remain cautious to our darker tendencies. By doing this we could eventually find new meaning to our existance that includes a new awakening to a society based on improving ourselves for the greater good of human evolution, besides resigning to the single goal of satisfying our selfish wants or needs.
I can certainly see humans one day becoming that in some form or other. It wouldn’t mean that we’d be out galavanting the stars, but the world would be united in a common good that would only be possible when humanity is really tired of the status quo.
I don’t think that Rick Bermans’ idea that having an outside influence (Vulcans) guide us to a better day would be as defining and meaningful a moment for humanity. Imagine what kind of Americans we’d be today if other countries supported us in every way and we did absolutly nothing? Our flag would be meaningless, our convictions empty, our path paved for us. How does that make a nation great or it’s people patriotic enough to keep it alive?
This is why I say that Gene’s vision of humans beating the odds stacked against it to be a better race ON IT’S OWN, makes for a better impact on his Star Trek ideology than what Rick Berman tried to create on ENTERPRISE.
As a child, none of us could understand what it was like to be an adult until we became one. Right now, the human race is too child-like in nature to envision a better and mature human race…for now.
Jeff, the human race is child-like because our state leaders and religious leaders keep the truth to themselves.
(The truth will set us free)
If they were to come out and tell us the truth about our orgins, the truth about ET’s, the truth about death, the truth about mankinds destiny then you could have the baseline of a potential Federation of Planets.
Until, then get in line…..
Your points are actually one of the reasons that TOS is my favorite of them all: They’re still recognizably human and not walking around like a bunch of new age so-called enlightened beings.
Vic
The Next Generation was just the evolution of the original Star Trek series as far as the human condition goes. They still had some problems with corrupted Admirals and issues of trust, but we were shown in TNG that humanity was still making strides forward from the original series. Having a Captain who would negotiate before reacting emotinally was a way to show us that people were thinking differently by the 24th century. In another 100 years, humanity in the 25th Century would be a little more different.
Jeff, the human race is child-like because our state leaders and religious leaders keep the truth to themselves.
(The truth will set us free)
If they were to come out and tell us the truth about our orgins, the truth about ET’s, the truth about death, the truth about mankinds destiny then you could have the baseline of a potential Federation of Planets.
Until, then get in line…..
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I gave a lot of thought to your statement and with all honesty and no hostility intended, I can’t agree with it. I don’t think leaders of any kind have that much influence over the personal thoughts of a whole society. They may direct a populace to go in a certain direction but to influence individual thought and opinion is something even God hasn’t been able to do, otherwise there wouldn’t be so many different religions.
Since I was talking about immaturity in the context of current human nature, I was implying a train of thought that dictates actions. You see a mature society wouldn’t keep putting leaders in power, and back in power again, to continually oppress them economically and socially, yet we see it happening all the time. A mature society would remove such corrupted individuals for the sake of the greater good in order to progress forward. This is not to say that we don’t have some mature thinkers in our world, which, by the way, are often ridiculed and labeled as liberals, environmentalist whacko’s and extremists by those who obstruct and pull back on the reins of required social progress. Unfortunately, there aren’t enough of them to actually make much of a difference so long as the majority continue to act immaturely.
There are some nations in the world, we call third world, where the leaders are corrupt and try to oppress it’s citizens, but they often find themselves rebelled against by there people. If the citizens of the United States had rebelled against George Bush after learning of his deception in involving us in an illegal war, he probably would have never finished his term. But instead we complain and argue amongst ourselves and take little to no action in order to do what we know is right, and then on top of that, we return him to the seat of power to continue breaking laws mature thinkers set in place to guide our society to greatness. Our actions, the American citizens in this case, are measures of immaturity because we’re not using “our common sense” and acting for the greater good, which in this case would be to save lives by stopping this massive foreign policy error. But there are signs, even in the bleakness of all this that the rest of the world is maturing more than we are, because we see many other countries and leaders shunning us and our President because they know what we’re doing is wrong. So there is hope that mankind will rise above all its foolishness and finally see things in a way that benefit all of us and not just some of us. It may take more than 200 years, but it will happen.
I applaud your optimism, I just don’t agree with it.
We’ve been around for thousands of years and we haven’t gotten there, no reason to believe we’ll suddenly get there in another 200 years. Whether you believe in the Bible or not, if nothing else it’s clear evidence that in over 3,000 years people are the same today as they were back then.
Vic
Well I see your point Jeff and I don’t think there’s much difference in our views. (Please don’t ever worry about offending me btw).
Basically (all I’m saying) the things that are holding us back from learning are, real news about other cultures, cures to disease, real space exploration, free energy and cars that could get 150 mpg. All these high (Star Trek) technologies are being hidden from the population.
And yeah people that come out as mature are laughed at for saying the very thing I’m typing right now. (I get it all the time). They call me a Geek!!!! Tha bastards!!!! Lol.
But seriously.
Until these truths are blown out and reveiled we will be conditioned to sleep, work, and eat. Like slaves for the global elite. Society has done a great job in that standard of life. (You don’t know how many times Jeff I just wished I had a Class 4 Federation Shuttle craft so I could leave this place). Maybe later….
So we see alike I think, but I sure hope your wrong, because this planet won’t wait 200 years……
I don’t have the all the answers on what to do in the meantime.
“We’ve been around for thousands of years and we haven’t gotten there, no reason to believe we’ll suddenly get there in another 200 years. Whether you believe in the Bible or not, if nothing else it’s clear evidence that in over 3,000 years people are the same today as they were back then.”
And our species will still be the same as it was then, and now, in another 3,000 years. Unless something happens to drive us to extinction before then.
It’s sad to see some people have sort of given up on the idea that things could get better. Maybe that’s part of the reason why Rick Berman could sell his version of Star Trek for so long. Besides, how many times does a baby fall before it learns to walk? Just because the last 3000 years was so bleak, doesn’t mean that the next 3000 will be the same unless you’ve resigned yourself and society to failure. Noone, and certainly not me, ever said that geating anywhere worth geating to was going to be easy, but if you fight for it everyday and your children take up that torch and do the same, things will change. But you have to try. You’ve got to otherwise we’re just living out our days for nothing. I certainly won’t throw away 60+ years, or however long I’m going to live on this world, just to eat, sleep and make babies. Their’s got to be more to life than that. And I certainly won’t allow anyone to oppress me so that I become a robot for society. I have goals and I’m going to see them realized come hell or high water.
We try to educate our kids on eating the right foods and put away the junk, they don’t like it, but we know it’s to give them a healthy life and eventually they figure that out. Humanity is in much the same way. We have people out there who are trying to teach us how we can live better and happier lives and by God, I intend to learn it and pass it on.
Once you discover the realities of death, you no longer fear it.
Mankind will go thru a real shitty time but will come out ok. (Thanks to our space connection).
The ones that put us here can’t afford to wait any longer and extinction is out of the question!
790……!
There is. Check out this little book called “The Bible.”
“We try to educate our kids on eating the right foods and put away the junk, they don’t like it, but we know it’s to give them a healthy life and eventually they figure that out. Humanity is in much the same way.”
LOL, a perfect example that actually supports my point of view. Look at how obesity in the U.S. has skyrocketed over the last 20-30 years.
The problem is humanity as a whole. You will never weed out the bad apples no matter what is implemented by government or whatever. It’s just human nature.
Great dialog!
Vic
“Their’s got to be more to life than that.”
There is. Check out this little book called “The Bible.”
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I am aware of the bible, Vic. I’ve been a good Catholic my whole life. I was hoping not to get into a religious theme here as to not offend anyone who doesn’t share my beliefs. But the point I was trying to make was not just for myself but for all of us. As a race trying to evolve, we need to find more to life than just eat, sleep and making babies. Unfortunatly, not everyone believes in that or the way to get to it as the bible lays it out. But even if you’re not Catholic, the bible still has a good road map, in the teachings of Jesus, to show us how to lead a better life that, if we all followed, would make our society better as a whole. The problem is no one seems to be listening too it these days, or they just pick what they like and ignore the rest. So that leaves the ones who read it and understand, the task of setting the example for everyone else. Then maybe people will understand and warm up to it.
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“The problem is humanity as a whole. You will never weed out the bad apples no matter what is implemented by government or whatever. It’s just human nature.”
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I’m under no illusion that there will always be bad apples, but we have to make sure those bad apples don’t dominate our lives and that is what we need to do; get ourselves out from under the thumbs of the bad apples. Then we can start maturing as a race…but always keep a watch for the bad apples.
I have to admit that I read Genesis, and then I skipped to the end and read Revelations.
Vic
“Jeff, it’s too bad there aren’t really time machines so we could jump ahead and see how things turn out, eh? :-)”
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Yeah, it sure would.
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“I have to admit that I read Genesis, and then I skipped to the end and read Revelations.
:-)”
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Don’t feel bad. I know some Preists that have said much the same thing. I do have my favorite parts of the bible though.
But anyway, getting back to the blog I wrote back on 05/24/08, which started all this. Whether or not you all agree with me, do you at least understand the problem I was having with ENTERPRISE? About the Vulcan influence on humanity and all? I’m just hoping that I explained it well enough so you can all see where I was comming from.
Well Jeff,
Did Gene ever state that we DIDN’T have any help reaching out to the stars?
I mean, I don’t remember. If he somewhere said that Humans got off there feet after a nuclear war (by themselves), made peace, got rid of moneyand then decided to explore space….?
If he did, then yeah I could see your problems with Berman and Enterprise.
Personally (IMO) the radical changes (peace between races, no money) are examples of an alien exposure of some kind.
I have no problems with the Vulcans, if their out there they can stay at my place.
>;-|
IMO, Berman needed to ground the series with the Vulcans and the Klingons, since everything else was completly different looking in that timeline. Berman used the First Contact event (Vulcans) to connect the show with TNG timeline so its a natural fit.
Yeah the acting was somewhat emotional but it wasn’t the biggest mistake on that show. Everywhere you looked was a problem in the first season.
There were only 3 episode I like to rewatch at this point.
But seasons 2,3 and especally 4, were some of not just Trek but the best Tv I’ve seen in years.
Sheeesh almost every episode was a 3 part mini series.
Anyway that’s my take on it.
Manny Coto was trying to turn the proverbial ship in that direction, but it would take longer than the one season they gave him. I would have loved to have seen a fifth season of the show under his management.
Vic
Manny did a great Job!!
I guess Gene never specifically explained how humans managed to find their way. I always assumed that his original concept didn’t really have the Vulcans in mind as being the guiders to our enlightenment. If you re-watch the television interviews on Gene and some of the DVD extras where Gene is talking, I get the impression that he was really trying to impress on us that humanity would wake up on it’s own and Vulcans would be one of the first races we’d encounter in our travels. I didn’t really expect STAR TREK: FIRST CONTACT to show us that Vulcans discovered us. I always assumed it was the other way around. And if you think about it, it sort of works better that way because you wouldn’t have to ask yourself why the Vulcans would help a race of people who were bent on killing each other. I’m not saying that Vulcans shouldn’t have had an important part in the creation of the Federation, but in the pre-Fed era, they would have been largely unknown until Earth people started venturing out into deep space. My friends and I always assumed that that was how it started. But since Gene never set down specific’s I guess others felt it was all open for interpretation. I just didn’t like how they were interpreting it.
Well I think people should stand up and demand change but I don’t see it happening.
There’s just enough to keep us busy with paying bills and entertaining ourselves that most don’t have time or care.
Alot of people just give up and ask for space aliens to help, personally I view this as a weakness.
(I hate aliens, let me make that clear). The ones that are around now are scum and must be driven out of our realm.
I agree Jeff that we should clean our own room….
But keep in perspective that we are talking about a tv show not real life… Maybe we can turn it around,,,,?
But keep in perspective that we are talking about a tv show not real life… Maybe we can turn it around,,,,?”
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I could say the that the bible is just a book but a lot of people learn from it and try to take whats good in it and make it a reality. Sure Star Trek is just a TV show, but today’s medium is just a little different than a book. Just because its on a television set or a movie screen doesn’t degrade the idea and/or the meesage. Whe just have to make sure that the message stays consistant otherwise the integrity of the show is lost.
With that being said Jeff, I think Gene would be proud of the work Rick Berman did…
“With that being said Jeff, I think Gene would be proud of the work Rick Berman did…”
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Unfortunatly, that’s an opinion I, and many others, don’t share. As I said before I don’t think Rick held to Gene’s vision all that well, at least toward the end. That’s why Star Trek is where it is today. Hopefully, someone else someday will do a better job.
I hate to say it, but humanity will not move forward until, countries, borders, different governments and religions cease to exist. It’s gonna have to get so bad that humanity will have no choice but join in force to survive. But before that happens there has to be a lot of death and destruction.
“I hate to say it, but humanity will not move forward until, countries, borders, different governments and religions cease to exist. It’s gonna have to get so bad that humanity will have no choice but join in force to survive. But before that happens there has to be a lot of death and destruction.”
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I agree to a point. I don’t think religions need to be erased in order for humanity to move on. I think people need to learn to be more tolerant of differences if we are to even label ourselves as evolved. If we can do that, there would be no need to get rid of any religion.
I also think that countries and boarders will change in size, but not be totally eliminated in years to come. I think having these nations, in whatever form, gives people a sense of origon that is important to us. I do think more wars will happen before things will change for the better.
… I was reading this, and it was interesting to see a discussion about the NCC-1701’s design turn into a discussion about the future of Star Trek, which then turned into a noticably liberal discussion about religion, humanity as a whole, and ugly politics.
The Enterprise “E” is, in fact, not larger than the “D.” It is longer, true, but holds the same crew compliment as the Enterprise “B” (750). The E was designed with combat, not families, in mind. The primary saucer is much smaller than a Galaxy class vessel and it’s top speed is actually a bit lower due to the power requirements of the new combat systems.
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